Guild Wars 2

This is the best s/d build there is imo….

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsYVl0MhCnYpTw7Jw/EHwElPNOj2oXYJRiqTgAY3A-TZBFABCcCAEvMwCHCAd2fAgnAAA

Pack runes are a legit alternate option but vamp makes you nearly unkillable. This is the closest we have to a bruiser build at this point.

D/D doesn’t work in pvp for the simple fact that it doesn’t have proper gap closers like s/d and d/p have. All good players are great at kiting against thieves. You’ll find that they constantly create a gap from you and with d/d the only option is to burn a cooldown or spam heartseeker. D/P has shadow shot and that should honestly be the skill you use more than anything else. It closes the gap and blinds… it’s amazing. S/D benefits from infiltrator strike as well as flaking strike being a moderately good gap closer. Most people think dancing dagger is garbage but I find myself throwing 1 or 2 when I get an opponent low in health and they start looking to flee the fight. It can save the win when infiltrator’s strike is stuck on return. Don’t listen to people when they say to ignore acro with s/d. It’s a valid choice even if it is weaker than it should be.

I hope this helps and welcome back!

What build are you running? In general if it’s a straight 1v1 fight against a mesmer, I prefer playing s/d. I find a good spot that gives me line of sight blocking to initiate my infiltrator’s strike from, get in, cnd+tactical strike, get both air/fire procs, then port back out while they waste cooldowns trying to counter. After a few seconds go back in again. The idea is not to spend an extended amount of time vulnerable to their attacks… because they’ll out damage you. Use infiltrator return as an opportunity to consume plasma in relative safety as well (Improv >>> exec when fighting mesmers).

When playing with d/p the idea is similar. You might start by doing a shadowshot backstab, get a few autos in, dodge out, and stealth through blackpowder (consider multiple HS through the field to ruin their timing). Shadow refuge can be used to give yourself a big reset for steal to come back off cooldown and combo backstab+steal to restart the engagement right.

Rain.9213:

See the problem is not that Acrobatics got nerfed, Apharma. It’s more of the fact that everything else got buffed while Acrobatics didn’t get buffed enough. The fact that I have to give up Bountiful Theft to make my Withdraw 14s cd, don’t get 10% damage boost from Improv anymore, have to pick between vigor on heal skill or pain response, all while Mesmers, Eles, Guardians, Engies, and Rangers can CC the kitten out of me and kill me in less than 3 seconds flat. Sure, Hard to Catch and Don’t Stop are pretty nice but they don’t do much in the way of making up for hard damage and Boon Stripping Steal CC. I’ve done my absolute best to make S/D work in PVP and while I CAN defeat a lot of enemies, it’s a complete uphill battle. As someone else stated in this thread earlier, I literally have to be 2x as good as my enemy to beat them. Plus it takes FOREVER. Thief is a 1+ class now. You go in for a gank with D/P and run. That’s literally the most effective way of playing thief and it’s honestly not meant for S/D style of gameplay with Acro as it was essentially, our brawlery style set we had post specialization patch.

Not to take away from your point, but improv never gave a damage boost unless you were wielding pve type bundles (the ones that replace your main weapons). Holding a stolen item didn’t count.

I think we deserve a little more defense from the acro line and maybe a 15% damage boost on sword auto attack personally.

I figure those who do it completely seamlessly have it macro’d. Maybe someone else can chime in and prove me wrong.

This list seems pretty well thought out. I like the overall flavor of the changes, nice!

Acro signet is superior to blinding powder and inf signet right now. How else are you going to clear that 8 stacks of burning a guardian just put on you? Plus, you get a stat boost when it isn’t being used, and more dodges immediately after.

It’s definitely still playable, just not optimal anymore. I still have a lot of fun playing it but it isn’t a 1v1 brawler like it used to be. Just like with d/p, you have to focus on decaps and +1ing fights.

With the latest patch there are less dodges and more passive crap replacing them. I’ve found that I use cloak and dagger more to compensate for the lack of dodges. It keeps the opponent blinded or dazed more often, plus the buff to CnD’s damage is noticeable.

I’ve used DA, Acro, Trickery with pack runes as well as DA, CS, Trickery with vamp runes. Keep thrill of the crime and bountiful thief when using acro; it seems best to use trickster and the haste trait when using CS.

It’s fun to play so I think it’s worth learning… just don’t expect to wreck face anymore.

Really strong mechanics dude. I haven’t played d/d in over a year but this does bring back memories. I feel the same way about s/d; it’s less effective than d/p but a lot more fun so that’s what I play.

It can be done but you’ll often times be aware of it and it will certainly decrease your effectiveness some. The higher the lag the larger the chance for ports to rubberband it seems like.

If you like thief then play it regardless of lag. In my experience, d/p is better to play with lag because blinds and stealth will protect you regardless of timing. This is different than s/d, where you have to see a skill and react by evading it. Lag completely destroys s/d’s viability. You’ll see an evicerate and dodge it then see most your health go away anyways =/

Well, no comments so far…

I figured I’d post some better ones on Kylo. This really should be every thief’s favorite map!

http://youtu.be/d0LG1awql30
http://youtu.be/xb9ZBDtHdbE

Same s/d build as before except I went back to dual signets. Maybe it’s because I’ve used those utilities longer but it just feels right when compared to shadow step + acro signet.

You make really good guides dude. You also make an exceptional argument for the overall nerfing of engi That kitten is broken!

No worries. It’s pretty important to not have a clear line of sight when you’re not up in his face. I don’t run it but I’ve seen other thieves run generosity on shortbow to transfer conditions back to the engineer.

I forgot to mention in my first post, it works decently well to cloak and dagger off the engi. Either hit a tactical strike to get a few free hits in, or, switch to shortbow, auto once to immob him, throw gunk, and let a clusterbomb land on him. He’ll take pretty good damage in the latter scenario and you’ll have a nice plasma shield dishing some of that condi spam back to him.

If he was running double short bow then it was a troll build. Not to say it couldn’t do some decent damage with cluster bombs but it’s just far from optimal. If you wanted to try something like that yourself then 2/0/0/6/6 dual shortbow with energy sigil on each bow would work fine for you.

Anomaly.7612:

a t s e.9614:

Thief isint that hard , don’t be delusional. 1v1 ing cele bunkers on thief is hard but since its not your job it doesn’t count. The role of thief is easy in PvP. As long as you’re not always in downed state and don’t get farmed by other thieves, you’re still useful just by being a thief.

What exactly is the role of a S/D thief in PvP because I keep hearing the statement of “your job as a thief.”

I’ve always found that s/d should be in the team fight and watching for it to snowball one way or another. Once it’s all but over sneak past the backpoint defender (if he isn’t sitting on point that is) and decap far. Often times if your team is tanky you can decap (but not full cap) then head back to mid and come out ahead that way.

D/P is slower and in my opinion it shouldn’t be pushing far except in semi rare circumstances (like a disorganized pug game). Stay in the team fight, avoid focus fire, and spike down low targets to snowball the team fight in your favor. D/P doesn’t have the same ability to disengage as s/d so it should be really careful about going far alone.

I’ve had the same experience as Wakani. The matchmaking system continually matches pugs against pre-mades without any consideration to the type of advantage that gives the pre-made team. I vote that pug vs pre-made should not exist at all but another option would be to artificially inflate the mmr of the pre-made for matchmaking purposes. At least when they face another pug it’ll be a pug of superior players and the match might actually be even at that point.

I like joining solo and while I could eak out a 60% win rate in the old solo queue system, I’m stuck around 35% in the new system. I played enough games in both systems for it to be statistically valid to look at the ratios and see something is really messed up…

I got randomly picked to get a precursor during some tournament. I ventured out in pve to get the rest of what I needed (god 100% map completion nearly killed me). I don’t even use my legendary skin half the time anyways, so I wouldn’t worry about it and save yourself the time and boredom of obtaining one.

Strength and pack are both top tier. If you’re cash strapped and those two are too expensive (I’m not sure about their price) then even runes of the pirate (privateer) aren’t too terrible and they were dirt cheap last I checked. To me it’s a toss up between strength and pack. Pack gives you more crit chance both through a passive 6% boost as well as through additional fury up-time. It also gives you more swiftness which is always nice. Strength will give you a few additional might stacks with all the extra duration and a 5% damage boost. I’d pick whichever is cheaper imo.

Their rotations are pretty predictable. Use sword #2 from a safe location to engage in the fight and port out when they go through their 3-4 grenade spam skills then go re-engage. Dodge the magnet pull and other obvious animations. Engineers have been broken OP vs thieves for a very long time now but it’s possible to win once in a while. If nothing else, don’t over commit so you can disengage and go help somewhere else if it doesn’t go well.

They nerfed lyssa and buffed other runes. The community isn’t being fickle by tossing lyssa out fyi.

For utilities you can take shadow step, infiltrator’s signet, signet of agility, or shadow refuge. Pick any 3 that you like best and you won’t be leaving any performance on the table

It’s been said before but it needs to be said more often. FIX the matchmaking system to stop putting pugs against 5-man premades or 2&3 party member teams. I don’t give a flying kitten if the leaderboards have an over/under to make your loss matter less. Losing is losing and it’s not fun. I want to have a resonable chance of winning every match.

Sure, 4v5’s are mostly gone now, but who cares when the other 4 on your team aren’t up to par? It’s time to fix this mess.

/rant

Shouldn’t you be complaining about thieves? Dude! you’re slipping!

If you are going to keep your first build get rid of sundering strikes for improv. Put practiced tolerance in slot 1 of CS, and critical haste in the 2nd.

Your build has high damage but low utility compared to the meta. The meta build has lower base dmg stats but it builds up over time with additional might stacks. As you’ve noticed, s/d really works well with at least 3 into acro for feline grace, most thieves find that mandatory.

In this meta, you might find yourself dying before you can dps down other players (celestial everywhere!). You get a lot more defense and utility without losing a ton of damage by going deeper into acro and ditching CS for trickery. Going further into acro you get pain response and power of inertia. Power of inertia alone gives you back the power you lose by not going further into deadly arts. The 10% dmg boost you lose from DA is gained back with the 3rd acro minor trait; the 10% you lose in the CS minor is gained back from the 3rd trickery minor. Check out the traits you get in the meta build in trickery. Super short steal that can steal stability and interrupt stomps extra initiative, and good boon management.

Give both a try.

I have 2 lvl 80 thieves but I got the 2nd one most of the way there with tomes of knowledge. If you like thief and want to learn more about it then by all means level another one. I’ve used d/d, d/p, s/d, s/p, and p/d extensively in all aspects of the game, they all work fine. If you’re planning on staying with pve s/p is probably the best. S/D is a lot of fun but you have to work a lot harder to get the same results. In pvp it’s a different story though.

Cheers!

Greetings everyone.

I figured I’d upload a couple of my recent matches in unranked queue. I was joining solo so it felt like herding cats the entire time. I recorded one with sword/dagger and another with dagger/pistol to give an idea of how each can be used. I made quite a number of mistakes but hopefully some of you get some value out of it. Feel free to post questions or comments.

Here are the two builds:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAsYVl0MpwplOx7J8PNBNB5dY+SZ0KAdfko0XA-TZBFwACOBA12fYxhAoaZAAPBAA

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoaVlsMpyplOx7J8PNBMBxVP8ONnpNangdHAA-TZBFwACOBA12fYxhAoaZAAPBAA

S/D – Guest appearance by Blu
http://youtu.be/LV74K6PbutE

D/P
http://youtu.be/4iBUvI9iJ7I

I’d first warn you to not take the current leaderboard to indicate anything about skill, there is always something to learn to improve. Being top 100 doesn’t mean you’re top 100 in skill, it means you’re top 100 in performing well for your given MMR… Read backpack’s recent QQ post for more info on that topic…

As d/p you have a metric kittenton of blinds/dazes available to you. You should have the necro constantly blinded or dazed. Shadow shot, auto, auto, shadow shot, daze that kittening heal when you see it. One thing i liked to do is once I have the stolen fear available, I’ll blinding powder on top of him then cast the fear. Once the necro starts running away, heart seeker to him to gain stealth and get a free backstab in. If you have a long duration stealth you can cast the fear in stealth then backstab+steal also. If he drops several marks on the ground just dodge through them to void them all. He goes into lich form? Steal to him immediatley to rip his stability if available, if not, line of site or stealth because you’ll be 2 shot otherwise.

You should get a feel for the fight after a while. Getting a bit low on health? Stealth up and use shortbow’s 1 attack to immob him and drop a few cluster bombs on. All in all, thieves have an above 50% chance at a win vs necros when played right. Good luck dude.

I press them the same time. Map dodge to ‘v’ like it was by default and use your left index finger and thumb to press v and spacebar at the same time. After a while it’ll be in muscle memory. It’s useful in a lot of situations so I’d say it’s worth mastering.

Great work dude. I’m glad you’re getting this build to work for you. I’ve tried it before but I didn’t end up liking how it felt. It didn’t have the flow that 2/0/0/6/6 has; the acro tree synergizes with s/d so well.

IMO, when you account for everything, 2/0/0/6/6 has more damage, more sustain, and more dps from being able to stay in melee range a higher percent of the time. I’ll try to explain my reasoning:

By using 2/0/0/6/6 you get to keep might on dodge and you still get the 10% dmg buff from acro rather than DA. This puts the two specs on roughly the same footing for damage, except the acro build has more up time on boons as well as having an ability to drop the 2nd stunbreak for the signet of agility. Add in 3k more health (vs a little toughness and negligible healing power) also. All this adds up to having superior damage and survivability. Porting every which-way is really fun but it’s time not spent dpsing your opponent. This is all from a spvp perspective as I don’t play wvw anymore.

I hope this doesn’t come off as rude; you’re definitely a good player and I’d be curious to hear your opinions on this.

Cheers!

Keyboard are you running full shadow arts? One of those screenshots said stealth healed you….

Build your thief properly before complaining about it. Thieves already have more than enough dps against other zerker classes, probably too much really. However, against the celestial garbage of this meta I’d agree the damage is a little less than it should be.

So what’s the fix? Raise the damage and you’ll never see another burst ele or mesmer of any type in spvp. I say don’t touch the thief and reduce either the defense or offense of the common celestial builds to re-gain balance.

Play thief because you like it, not because it’s OP or UP. It’s extremely easy to play the common celestial builds but it’s also quite boring. Thief is fine, it’s the meta builds that are too strong currently. Thieves 1-shotting people is gone forever and we already burst mesmers below half health in a single opening combo as it is. They might reduce celestial’s sustain a bit but don’t expect our damage to go up.

Ultimately, Anet must have decided that due to our mobility, we aren’t meant to be able to 1v1 all classes. Don’t try to 1v1 on far when you can +1 a different fight, end it quickly, and move on to create uneven odds at the next fight. Playing thief isn’t about winning every fight anymore, but if you want your best chances then s/d when played correctly can give you a shot at winning each fight at least.

6/0/2/0/6 p/d +sbow celest air/fire works a lot better than people realize. In spvp it’s the only p/d build remotely viable. In WvW it might be better to run more tanky with some dire pieces…

My right mouse button is depressed 95% of the time I’m playing. I choose where to look at all times, is that what you’re talking about?

Try reading this if you get bored also.

http://intothemists.com/guides/250-sd_the_flanking_acrobat

The build is obsolete now so stick with 2/0/0/6/6 strength (or pack) air/fire + sbow. However, he explains some of the mechanics that are very important to being successful with s/d. Your first auto attack is so fast that you can dodge in the middle of it to remove the aftercast vulnerability. Personally, until you get really good I’d suggest that you infiltrators strike into every fight. If you start getting into trouble dodge away from your opponent then use the return. That should cut down on your deaths a lot.

GL

sinject.4607:

the biggest complaint about s/d was that people would mindlessly spam flanking strike so now they made it chainable (like shortbow’s #3) and made it cost lest initiative to spam repeatedly. great fix.

They made FS cost MOOOOOORRRREEEEE initiative dude….. making you deplete initiative even faster if you miss.

This is a pretty good time for thieves because both d/p and s/d are 100% viable in tpvp. Panic strike d/p tends to be a bit more common than s/d in high end tournaments in my experience.

The most recent changes to s/d certainly did increase the skill cap. I’d argue the changes did decrease the effectiveness a bit though. D/P got panic strike recently and good thieves have adapted to using shadow shot more rather than trying to tank inside blackpowder.

Both specs are a lot of fun, I’m playing s/d personally.

So you’re stubbornly sticking with p/d? It is certainly not ideal but not because it lacks stability. It lacks evades and blinds so while it’s a great duelist spec, it isn’t the best for conquest. However, if you’re going to do it, try 6/0/2/0/6 air/fire celestial. Inf sig, shadow step, shadow refuge. That’s a ton of stunbreaks and it’s more than you really need to stay alive. All classes get stuck in a cc-chain once in a while. If it’s happening more often then that it means your positioning and mechanics need improving. Sorry if this sounds harsh but I believe it to be true.

Good game play dude! You’ve got good mechanics for sure. I cut my teeth on d/d in wvw and I agree that you can customize your gear such that your build is superior to 2/6/6/0/0 because CS has been looking pretty lack luster lately. In spvp the lack of customization of stats makes the debate more complicated, but in wvw you can just go more offensive with gear stats to come back up in dmg with that build.

That being said, d/d is so limited that I can never see myself going back to it unless it gets a large overhaul. S/D and D/P have so much more to offer, I really don’t see the reason to use d/d other than how it doesn’t really matter what you use when farming wvw bads….

If I ever go back to wvw I’ll be with 2/0/0/6/6 s/d or 6/0/2/0/6 d/p.

Go here:

http://www.twitch.tv/sizer2654

Watch every past broadcast, then try to do it like that….

SA is in no way required in wvw. It is simply a less effective build than the trickery variant. If you think you need more condi clear beyond HiS and shadow step then I recommend you try altering your play style. Spend a few weeks in spvp and actually learn your class

As for advice, unless he’s a top d/p thief you can probably evade through his stealth up time (he can time his BS+steal at the end of your FS but most won’t). It’s probably best to save steal to interrupt his heal as that will put the most pressure on him. If he’s low on health consider using it to interrupt the HS through BP to finish the fight. After he stealths you can often predict where he will be (running straight towards you) and you can CnD off of him to regain the upper hand. Use dancing dagger once in a while because he’s probably not spec’d to have a ton of ports (he should be but probably isn’t….) and the cripple really limits what he can do. It’s also good for clearing blind. Other than that, make sure you have sigil of air along with fire or blood so that you have the best chance of landing a BIG hit when you do land one.

Good luck and there’s definitely no shame in ending it with a draw.

manveruppd.7601:

Black Powder in its previous version was directly comparable to Well of Darkness
Let me restate, for emphasis: a weapon skill which costs the amount of initiative that you generate in 6" had almost as good functionality (1" less duration, slightly smaller radius) as a utility skill with a 60" recharge. I mean, be reasonable here, it was an obvious target for a nerf.

Nimrud.5642:

For S/D its no question. Flanking strike not triggering LS when out of range is somewhat acceptable (still I dont think it was gamebreakingly OP before), but not triggering due to blinding or blocking is just stupid imho. So the moaning about S/D being ruined has a basis.

It’s logical though: it’s a chained attack. Every other skill like that in the game doesn’t progress tot he 2nd skill in the chain if the first doesn’t hit. However I agree with you in part: Larcenous Strike wasn’t the real problem in the s/d build. For me, the problem was that, with so many evasions, s/d thieves were impossible to pin down. So you couldn#’t counterpressure them to get them of, they could just back off to regenerate some initiative and keep coming back until you ran out of cooldowns and dodges. So, if it were me, I would have put a higher initiative price on Flanking Strike, and not put any additional restrictions on Larcenous Strike.

Use your head. It’s logical to put an unblockable skill behind an initiating skill that won’t advance to the 2nd skill if it’s blocked? LOGIC!

I just trash talk them after I beat them now. It’s no skill bullkitten so they should feel bad playing and losing with it. Some of the perches rangers can find to attack from are ridiculous. Ranger isn’t OP unless they take advantage of terrain, then they’re gods.

All three builds will be the same, nothing is changing. In preparation for the patch I got really good on my alt in case I’m not effective on thief anymore.

When you say d/p thief you should really be saying shortbow thief. Sword builds can use that kit as their primary weapon but d/p stays in shortbow most the time. If you practice enough you can even port in and burst with shortbow because when you do it with d/p you often leave yourself too open to the enemy team’s attacks.

A few patches ago d/p could 1v1 any build and have a decent chance of coming out on top. Currently (and likely in the next patch) most the meta builds counter d/p in 1v1. I find it really frustrating but I can understand why it should be that way to maintain balance. Try getting better at decapping to compensate. Anticipate enemy movement and pop a SR just before they leave their home heading to mid and you’ll easily get the decap.

I still play d/p about 50% of the time although I freely admit that s/d is superior currently.

I’m going to continue playing thief post patch. The nerfs likely won’t be too important but I’m worried the other profession’s buffs might be too much to handle. I can play d/p s/p s/d at top levels so as long as one of those sets still work I’ll still play.

However, over the last month I’ve gotten good enough with engi that I’m probably more effective on it (which when looking at the time spent is disgusting imo). At least I have a back up plan should things turn out as bad as everyone fears…

Celestial p/d 6/2/0/0/6 (slight of hand) works fine in spvp and you’re not a trolly kitten like you’d be in a shadow arts full condi build. I assume the same is true in wvw. Glad I could help….

Thief is my main and by far my favorite. I think it’s the amount of control during a fight that makes it so much fun. The mechanics are simple but the depth in which you can use them is so satisfying when it all comes together.

I’m quite confident that s/d d/p and s/p (even celestial p/d really) will be viable post patch. If you’re good at one of these sets currently then you still will be post patch.

Recently, half due to boredom and half due to reduced effectiveness on thief I finally figured engineer out. P/P rabid/balthezar or Rifle celestial/Strength with grenades/toolkit/elixer s keep a lot of control that I like as well as having a great balance of damage to defense. Engineer spams a lot more keys than thieves but it rewards quick reactions and allows you to adapt to the situation like the thief.

Moral of the story, if all you want to play is thief, then play thief. If not, I suggest trying one of the two builds on engineer that I suggested. Either way, melt face and have fun…

D/P is already struggling in the meta so I’m really quite surprised to see this nerf. Who thinks they even considered how this will stop offhand pistol from securing a stomp since the downed player can time an auto attack and their downed skill between blind pulses?

I don’t like the s/d changes either. I was really hoping they’d go back on their dual air/fire sigil nonsense from last patch but anet seems to rarely reverse bad decisions. Nerfing 2/0/0/6/6’s damage and the damage of other overly tanky builds using air/fire was the right way to fix things. This s/d change reduces damage but leaves other profession’s builds at full strength… not balanced at all.

I’m just wondering how I’m supposed to secure a stomp with offhand pistol vs rangers, engis, necros, guardians, and warriors now….. I might have to get better on engi because it at least has mechanics that work…

Good post! I can’t be bothered to find more keys to bind so I rotate my camera for the same effect. The plus side is if I want to go at a 30, 60, 270 deg angle it’s just as easy. I do agree that this way looks the coolest though

s/p still does fine but it’s inferior to s/d right now. Trying to pistolwhip into protection is like bashing your head against the wall. We’re in a boon heavy meta still and s/d rips boons more effectively. It’s just superior. S/P and D/P work but they’re lower tier compared to s/d.

S/D is still superior in solo queue as well as team queue. D/P still works but it’s not optimal so you’re putting your team at a disadvantage by using it. D/P needs to be able to win most 1v1’s for it to be viable and it seems like half or more of the meta builds beat it. The only way for it to work at all is if you totally outclass your opponents or if you coordinate with your tanky team really well for coordinated spikes.

I liked the last meta better because you could run d/p, s/d, or s/p and be effective. At least then we had some variety.