“Play their way” … “Play the way you want” …
I remember those phrases people quoted from Anet, they mean you can get the relevant gear how you want to play. And we can, we can craft/purchase Ascended armour and weapons from all game modes, you can purchase/earn Exotics in all game modes too.
That’s what play how you want means. It does not mean you can beg for Legendary skins without doing the content.If I want Gold Fractal Skins, I go do Fractals.
If I want Ardent Glorious Skins, I PvP.
If I want a Legendary, I do the requirements
The skins are the optional content which does not prevent you from playing the game.So tired of those phrases being tossed around like they’re law.
“Play your way” was used on the box in the context of choosing a profession, weapons, traits, gear stats, etc. to suit one’s play preferences. That’s consistent with all other mentions of PYW by ANet. I never saw any mention of “Play your way” connected to rewards, never mind any mention of all rewards being accessible despite restricting one’s content choices. Launch should have taught players that, as dungeon rewards were exclusive, and Legendary Weapons required both dungeon and WvW play.
That said, ANet has taken the lesson provided by the vocal and has taken to using rewards to lead the horse to water, as it were. As a result, a larger percentage of rewards have been gated behind specific content than was true earlier in the game’s history. This is a natural progression in all MMO’s. New content means new rewards.
My only objections to ANet doing so are:
- Too much emphasis is placed on crafting.
- Peripheral content like Adventures should not gate access to alternative means to get BiS stats.
Unlock elite soec weapons from elite specs.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
Maybe if ANet had to think about balancing Elite Spec weapons with different possibilities, Elite Specs would not be so much better than core ones.
There was some vertical progression in the Heart of Thorns expansion in that ANet introduced gear prefixes which are objectively better than the ones available in core. So, while so far there has been no regular power creep every six months or so, as I saw in WoW, there has been some since Ascended was introduced back in late 2012.
That’s not a result of “success of raids”. That’s merely a consequence of them having devs now to devote to creating new content that isn’t expac.
Remember, that before the restructuring they did after HoT launch, they didn’t have a separation between expac and current content teams. They were unable to dedicate any effort to fractals, because all the people that could possibly work on them were doing content for the expac. Raids, for example. All they had was the living story team (and even those devs were moved to expac work as soon as LS2 ended). Only after HoT launched they could free up some manpower.
There’s no reason to suspect that things you say happened due to raids wouldn’t have happened without them.
I seem to remember them hiring (a) new developer(s) to work on raids. What are the odds that the new dev(s) did not bring ideas that the dev team would not have otherwise, given that they were hired to make harder instanced content? I’d say there’s every reason to believe there was a connection, and that you’re reaching.
There is elegance in simplicity. Practical does not have to mean doesn’t look good. Good looking does not have to mean extravagantly ornate, covered in spikes and other … protuberances, or even just too kitten big.
So, ANet needs to give better rewards to players for logging in? If not a troll post, then no wonder GW2 has become more about repeating mediocre content for rewards. Players keep telling them rewards are all that matters.
#Isitfun?
Successful login at 9:35 AM PDT, east of San Francisco. No connection error, no repair notice.
Yeah, if it helps, here is my sequence.
- Tried to log in. Got a problem notification. Fat-fingered the button to ignore rather than check, and got into the game. That was around 5:10 PM US PDT.
- Tried to log in at around 10:00 PM PDT, got the connection error(s) detected message. This lasted for a few seconds, then I got in. Played for about 45 minutes.
- Tried to log in at ~11:30 PM PDT. Connection error)s_ message. Been that way for 5 minutes or more with no joy.
I think you have to be a little more honest than this. The market is a spectrum and if you are on the fringe of that, there is no sensible financial reason to take a limited resource to capture it at the expense of the core market you serve.
…snip
Then they better rethink their whole immersion into MMO’s. Again, show me an MMO does not follow the “do this get that” algorithm … they don’t exist. Ever MMO work ‘on rails’ because the whole thing is hardcoded into the game. Game AI has to get much better than it is to adjust activities and rewards to a players preference or gamestyle.
Show me an MMO other than GW2 that gates endgame rewards behind mini-games that have nothing to do with your character.
I don’t get your association there. Doing a mini game to get ‘something’ that gets you towards a reward is exactly within the “Do that get this” algorithm that I have been talking about that all MMO’s are built upon. So what’s your point? I don’t think I CAN’T show you an MMO that isn’t build on that algorithm … or at least I’ve yet to play or hear of one.
In the most general terms, completing content gets you rewards tied to them; the content does not adjust to the player; MMO’s aren’t smart enough yet. Being specific about a particular activity/reward combination in GW2 and challenging that combination as unique or unfair or whatever doesn’t disprove this fact of MMO games.
I’m not complaining about the practice of specific rewards via specific content in the most general terms. My points were:
- I can see how people think the game has changed in that regard, because it has.
- Having an Elite Spec collection include mini game content in which you don’t actually get to play your character spec is counter-intuitive.
And you still haven’t named an MMO where mini-games (where you are essentially playing a different game) gate basic endgame rewards like BiS gear.
I think you have to be a little more honest than this. The market is a spectrum and if you are on the fringe of that, there is no sensible financial reason to take a limited resource to capture it at the expense of the core market you serve.
…snip
Then they better rethink their whole immersion into MMO’s. Again, show me an MMO does not follow the “do this get that” algorithm … they don’t exist. Ever MMO work ‘on rails’ because the whole thing is hardcoded into the game. Game AI has to get much better than it is to adjust activities and rewards to a players preference or gamestyle.
Show me an MMO other than GW2 that gates endgame rewards behind mini-games that have nothing to do with your character.
Whatever happened to ANet’s professed “minor adjustments?”
if you’re going for a legendary, you must do some things you might not enjoy.
Not sure why.
It should be obvious … the game is not designed around an individual’s wants.
Just because the game is not designed around each person’s wants does not equate to people must do things they don’t enjoy. An alternative to forcing players to do things they don’t want is for the devs to create choices in the system, for instance.
This theme is reoccurring with you. I frankly disagree with that statement you make, not because it’s my opinion, but because I understand GW2 isn’t philanthropy. If you spend time in a game, you ARE limited by the avenues that the devs give you to ‘win’ it. If you don’t like those avenues, then the reality is that you are SOL. There is no democracy here, no one asked us how we would like to earn legendaries. Is that bad? Maybe, but that’s not our call. You get the game the finite number of devs in a finite amount of time can deliver.
Besides … You exactly define what playing an MMO is all about. There are things you must do to earn certain rewards. I mean, what any particular players wants to do is completely irrelevant to how the game is designed. It’s absolutely ridiculous to imply someone MUST get a legendary in the first place. It’s a luxury item. So no, no one MUST do masteries for legendaries because legendaries aren’t MUST have items. In addition, that argument fails on another level … you can also make a first gen legendary. Those ones don’t require masteries.
For years after GW2 launched people talked about Legendary Armor. No one knew how it would be implemented. Look who gets it now that it’s here! It’s the demographic that bucked the system and asked for what they wanted, a type of content that was never even on the radar for this game. I guess the status quo is not as sacrosanct as you want it to be.
It seems quite apparent that the answer here is that it’s not worth it.
If it’s not worth it, then adding raids likely wasn’t worth it either.
Both assertions depend on how large the two demographics are. The applicability of demographic size is also dependent on ANet’s willingness to make all content appeal to players who only want easy. Based on their performance, they think that the group that wants easy instanced group content needs to be satisfied with story dungeons and lower level fractals, and whatever lesser rewards they offer.
Probably the biggest deterrent as far as ANet is concerned is the failure of said demographic to make more use of story dungeons. This tells them that producing easier instanced content is a waste of resources. Add in their (demonstrated many times) tendency to place better rewards in harder content, and easy mode raids seems vanishingly unlikely.
Yeah something like that. This is gw2. You can burn monsters made of fire and freeze ice monsters.
Why are people going on about the physics of the matter anyway?
I agree that arguing about the metaphysics of the matter is kind of silly. That’s what I was trying to point out. Perhaps I did a poor job. Once you assume stuff magically appears in one’s inventory, it’s not a stretch that, given resurrection, it keeps doing so even if one s temporarily not moving. All it would take would be a magic spell that moves loot from target to you. Whether “you” is alive would be a moot point.
That of course does not deal with the “deserving” issue, which is the real issue. Frankly, I think a lot of people take this issue too seriously.
tl;dr. Ignored sounds like ArenaNet actively or purposefully didn’t provide them with content. Which is not true. Which doesn’t have to match up with what people felt of course.
You’ll note I wrote, “harder instanced content.” There was a big gap between the Aetherpath addition and raids, during which time only 1 or 2 fractals were added. As far as WvW goes, well, there were a few changes that almost no one acknowledged wanting after the fact. While ignored may be inaccurate, it was certainly what was being claimed by both groups.
If you are roaming, chances are you will encounter zergs/blobs. If said zerg/blob has at least 1 teef, then its a matter of mobility vs mobility…will #1 be able to run or will #2 catch him. Stealth is a mechanic that can help one of the squishiest classes not get steamrolled every time they come across a zerg, and help them bail.
Whereas every other profession just gets steamrolled regardless of whether the zerg has a thief?
Bags that pop up near your corpse are bags that you already earned while you were alive, right? If so, those should always be put in your inventory with the auto-loot perk. I don’t see what being dead has to do with these bags.
Butt how you are going to pick them up if your dead? Yes, you earned them, and they’re rightfully yours
“_ but how are you going to pick then up there’s no blood pumping oxygen to your brain, to give muscles the necessary commands, to pick something up_”If you WP immediately on defeat, how does the stuff get to your inventory? For that matter, how does it get to your inventory if you’re at 1200 from your kill?
A magical mind control device that requires you to be alive to use it?
Mind control? So I’m mind controlling the dead guys to put stuff in my inventory? Same problem, if they’re dead, they can’t move stuff.
I’ll say, “Yes!” to #’s 1, 2, 3, 5, and 6.
I’ll add:
8. Lore minutiae nods to the original GW.
9. The node and drop systems being non-exclusionary.
10. Gliding.
11. The sheer fluidity of character movement, especially in combat. In other MMO’s I’ve played, character movement seems more jerky, and thus less realistic.
if you’re going for a legendary, you must do some things you might not enjoy.
Not sure why.
It should be obvious … the game is not designed around an individual’s wants.
Just because the game is not designed around each person’s wants does not equate to people must do things they don’t enjoy. An alternative to forcing players to do things they don’t want is for the devs to create choices in the system, for instance.
If they cater to every player
Creating choices /= “cater to every player”. No need for hyperbole.
But what if some players still don’t want to do those choices?
It is indeed not possible to cater to everyone. This is why developers choose to cater to large demographics. It’s really all they can do.
However, in the game’s history, there have been large demographics which get ignored for considerable lengths of time. For instance, players who prefer harder, instanced content were without much in the way of new things to do for years. WvW players were, for a long time, largely ignored.
HoT presented a swing towards niche content for open world players. With the LS3 maps, the pendulum is swinging back the other way. However, some HoT goals are still gated behind niche content. It’s natural for players who dislike certain rewards being locked behind niche content like adventures to complain, just as instanced content and WvW aficionados complained.
You’ll note that both of those demographics have gotten a bone thrown to them, WvW more recently. So, complaining does serve a purpose. I fail to see the purpose, though, of always defending the status quo. That attitude is generally bad for game health. Developers would be wise to take blind defense of everything they do with a grain of salt.
(edited by IndigoSundown.5419)
Now, my point is not to complain about the stealth mechanic itself, but rather, the fact they dont sacrifice anything for it. Thieves flash and dash around without a vare (sic), still dealing extremely high damage. “Back in my day” in games, you had to choose between prowess and survivability, or conditions, or utility, cant have everything.
I tend to think of players who play thieves in WvW as opportunistic more than cowardly. They’re riding a questionable mechanic because they can. That makes it a tactic.
While the sheer amount of stealth available to thieves seems over the top, I’d have to say that stealth is not the only build, nor thieves the only class, for which there is way too little in the way of opportunity costs. Some of the power creep that came with HoT is due to the Elite Specs, but a lot of it is due to the HoT gear with powerful stat combinations.
Bags that pop up near your corpse are bags that you already earned while you were alive, right? If so, those should always be put in your inventory with the auto-loot perk. I don’t see what being dead has to do with these bags.
Butt how you are going to pick them up if your dead? Yes, you earned them, and they’re rightfully yours
“_ but how are you going to pick then up there’s no blood pumping oxygen to your brain, to give muscles the necessary commands, to pick something up_”
If you WP immediately on defeat, how does the stuff get to your inventory? For that matter, how does it get to your inventory if you’re at 1200 from your kill?
Sorry, I have no advice. However, your post reminded me very much of why I swore I would never raid (10 or 25 player) again.
Did you mean Core Tyria Mastery Points?
If people don’t want to go out of their comfort zone to earn things that’s their problem, not the games. Mastery points are not excessively difficult to get, you just have to do something specific.
Interesting perspective. It’s easy for you to say that people have a problem, but sometimes player problems can turn into game problems. People choosing to leave the game due to frustration with ANet’s decisions could very well be a problem for the developer. I’m not sure that yet another reason to bleed players is ideal for GW2.
As for me, I would not have minded the way Masteries were implemented had ANet not spoken of them as an alternative type of progression instead of the usual level-based progression we see with XPacs. Level progression has always been via experience in any RPG I’ve ever seen, and XP is always gained doing almost anything the game offers. So, we went from an open acquisition progression system to a combined open/closed system.
In your example you change the supply (drop-rate) to proof that it’s still possible to get an item to be almost impossible to get.
What I wonder, do you really don’t get it or do you just not want to get it?
If anyone is having trouble getting it, it’s you. Ashen is basing his comments on existing games. You aren’t. Higher drop rates in MMO’s are a pipe dream, with exceptions.
Provide an example of an MMO where the developer uses the reward system you propose, with items dropping from various mobs and with reasonable drop rates and which does so in the open world. Dungeon/Raid bosses have very limited drop tables and always drop something, so content longevity comes from time gates and competition with other group members. Even so, it’s possible to never get a specific drop even in such circumstances. It’s happened to me, several times, and I’ve seen it happen to others.
So, yes, your proposed reward system does not exist in MMO’s. It’s unlikely it will ever be adopted in an MMO.
There’s no excuse for having a cap.
There are all sorts of reasons. You just don’t agree with any of them.
The reasons I’ve seen the most are:
…
…And comments:
…
So you don’t agree with any of the stated reasons? That doesn’t make them less of a reason.
Actually, debate is based on point and counterpoint. Counterpoints can in fact undermine points, at least when both sides are being fair-minded. On forums? Yeah, I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve seen someone admit to changing their mind. The internet aspect is of course strengthened by the fact that except in rare cases where facts are at issue, it all just boils down to differing opinions.
Of course there are lots of other ways that ANet could handle any of the above. My point is that this wasn’t some sort of arbitrary decision; ANet didn’t wake up one morning and say, “jeeze, we want to screw veterans — how can we do that and make it seem like we aren’t?” They had reasons, good ones to them.
You’re sure about that? You were a fly on the wall of the meeting room? How do you know they thought things through? Based on past performance, there have been any number of times when they could have avoided massive outcry if they had only considered the likely reactions of players.
As I’ve said, I didn’t agree with capping in the first place. Neither do I agree with removing the cap. I just don’t think the pro|con arguments are all that strong either way.
Of course not. All in-game problems are tempests in teapots.
Instead, I’d much, much prefer ANet to find other ways for us to gain AP, especially if it’s closer to the rate we enjoyed when the game first launched (discounting the fact that new players always have more options than veterans).
I’d be fine with that.
tl;dr there are reasons for the cap. You don’t have to agree with them to want the cap removed, however it helps to argue for the cap’s removal to acknowledge that other people support those reasons.
Not sure what the tl;dr is in aid of. By debating rationale, one is de facto acknowledging that someone else believes “their” rationale. You seem to believe that opposing someone else’s opinion is in some way attempting to deny him his right to an opinion. That’s certainly not why I debate. Heck, I don’t ever expect to convince someone to change their opinion, but maybe I’ll convince those who are undecided.
Cheers.
There’s no excuse for having a cap.
There are all sorts of reasons. You just don’t agree with any of them.
The reasons I’ve seen the most are:
- Dailies aren’t real achievements.
- I don’t want to be forced to do dailies to keep up.
- People new to the game will never catch up without the cap.
- Dailies should not make up a large percentage of total AP.
And comments:
- As I said above, most GW2 achievements aren’t.
- So, in a game genre which bases its business model on giving people reasons to log in and play, ANet has removed one reason to log in and play because people have low self control. Not a fan of pandering to player unwillingness to assume personal responsibility for their own quality of life.
- New players are never going to catch up anyway due to legacy achievements.
- This is the only excuse I think has any possible weight, because it asks questions about how much weight in the AP system should be assigned to which aspects of game play. However, there are other options besides capping daily AP. ANet could, for example, reduce daily AP, and/or increase AP provided by other achievements.
How about instead we remove daily ap from the game instead. Doing crappy dailies is not an achievement.
You want achievement points go do content that rewards it.
99.9 percent of GW2 “achievements” would not pass as any kind of achievement out in the real world. The .1% that might are the ones which are massive time grinds (Giant Slayer and Shield Master say hi). All AP are is another list of things to do that keeps people playing the game.
Still, I’d be down with removing AP from dailies — as long as we also remove them from all other content that is similarly easy. I have a hard time thinking that would be well-received. I also question the wisdom of removing any reason to play the game, which is exactly what the cap does.
Please, stop abusing the farm options.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
but it is a hard choice as “what else do you do to make people keep playing for years”. to that my answer would be “make the gameplay Fun!”.
Yeah, that was the theory back when the game was in development. The game at launch had relatively easy max stat acquisition, and the only pursuits for goal-oriented, time-intensive players was dungeon sets and legendary weapons. That lasted less than two months before “nothing to do” started appearing.
MMO developers throw lists of things to do that require massive reps at players because a significant portion of the MMO consumer base wants to play so kitten much, but content seldom or never stays fun that long. Also, by now, MMO players are conditioned to “push button/get reward” game play.
What’s ironic, is that the MMO player-base is its own worst enemy. While it may not be the same players, there are simultaneous complaints about nothing to do, no goals to pursue, and the goals that do exist take too much grind to reach. The endless cycle of same Leaves me smh.
Thanks for the FYI.
I have actually experienced people guarding sentries, which is just ridiculous. Not just one person mind you, which wouldn’t bother me, but having two and three people come out of nowhere to stop me (or to kill me) from getting a sentry.
Boredom, probably, or bad luck.
This is not a rebuttal. Many posters read threads wherein contrary positions compete for the entertainment value. One need not be “for” or “against,” simply interested. Anyone posting on forums should expect to have assertions challenged no matter the motives of the poster who finds fault with them for being in the thread in the first place.
That’s no problem for me but it’s funny that the discussion always turned from “Give easier raids.” to “Let’s talk about access of leggy armor a.k.a. give it as well.” in the same thread by the same people.
That does not surprise me. The number of players who play MMO’s just for fun is vastly smaller than those who play for rewards. Content alone cannot maintain its allure for the many replays the developer needs to see.
If I combine that understanding with the belief that ANet would not put regular raid rewards into easier versions of raids, then I come to the conclusion that easy mode raids would be a waste of development time because they would not have the staying power needed. That would mean that resources were taken from other projects — whether regular raids or other PvE — to make content that will be in the end as much of a waste of time as story dungeons were. Too much lost for little to no gain.
It should be noted that the credit you get is while you are alive. If you were laying there dead at the time I bet you wouldn’t get that credit. :P
lol, I might have to tag a camp then get myself killed and get my buddies to finish taking it to see what happens.. I’m curious now!
If events in WvW work like events in PvE, you’ll get credit as long as the decay timer has not gone off, alive or dead. I doubt that ANet bothered to change the way events work based on which mode they’re in.
In the OP’s idea, time spent is per tick, which lasts under five minutes. Using 60 and 59 minutes as examples seems ill-advised.
I, too, think that something needs to be done. It’s frustrating, and contrary to the goal of the outnumbered bonus, to actually be outnumbered for over four minutes, lose the bonus in the last 20 seconds, then get it back 20 seconds after the tick award.
I don’t think the OP’s suggestion goes far enough. If the goal of the outnumbered bonus is to get players to stick on such maps, then award the outnumbered bonus only to players who stay the entire tick on that map.
I am going to live without legendary armor because I do not raid. Content specific rewards that act as trophies to show one’s accomplishments in that content fill a valuable role in an MMO’s overall reward scheme in my opinion.
I do, however, hold out hope that Anet will revisit their apparent decision to not introduce different legendary armor skins for other game modes.
My point in responding to you initially, as stated, was that comparing a skin in one game mode to an entire tier of armor in another was unbalanced. You can, of course, choose to invent whatever conclusions you like, but my point was very specific and very narrowly stated.
And nevertheless you came into that specific thread “Easy mode raids”.
This is not a rebuttal. Many posters read threads wherein contrary positions compete for the entertainment value. One need not be “for” or “against,” simply interested. Anyone posting on forums should expect to have assertions challenged no matter the motives of the poster who finds fault with them for being in the thread in the first place.
NO! Leave it alone. If you do not like it then go play another game. This is not supposed to be easy to get. If you want easy to get stuff go back to PvE!!!!!!!!!
Could you please explain how leveling up crafting demonstrates either skill in wvw or dedication to the game mode?
Leveling up a profession do 500, take few minutes, or in worst, very worst case, 1 hour.
What all u need is just the gold.
How is that a measure of one’s participation and dedication to WvW?
Gold, got it. Participation in crafting, not going to happen.
I am not making demands. Nor am I intending insult or offense to anyone else. But a reward that consists of: if you dedicate yourself to playing long enough you will eventually be allowed, not to access the reward, but to spend time and gold in some other endeavor entirely. And that, tangential at best, endeavor will be what is rewarded.
i can’t believe u guys still cry about it. Anet should rename this game to snowflake wars.
Level up is a thing u need do ONCE time in a account, i did mine Armorsmith/Weaponsmith in once day 2 years ago then bye.
Lets go to guide to fast level up.
1. Save gold til reach something 150-200g
2.Open any guide on internet.
3.Buy materials.
4.Craft and level up.
——-
2 Years is like 600 days+. i just spend a few hours of one day to do it.U Have 599 days to WvW and forget about craft.
Players who participate in systems they find not to be fun because they want the shiny are a major reason we still have systems that are not fun to engage with.
the reality is almost no one will get any of this gear.
I doubt that.
I doubt it, also, to the point where I’m certain players will get this gear. Once players made the point to ANet back in the last quarter of 2012 that they would jump through innumerable hoops to get virtual rewards, ANet has obliged this desire to the exclusion of everything else. ANet is married to grindy un-fun reward systems because that’s what players demanded back when. It would take a collective effort on the part of players in the form of just saying, “No!” to ANet’s reward systems to get ANet to change course on how rewards are gained, and that ain’t gonna happen, no matter how many complain on the forums.
I used mine on a second engineer to play Power Flamethrower (for grins). Then, ANet turned Flamethrower into a mostly condi weapon. Now I have a free slot, but no L80 boost.
I disagree with newbihack. If you want a REALLY potent dose of toxicity, go to Eternal Battlegrounds in WvW and type that you’re a new player looking for help in Team chat… then wait for your eyes to bleed.
EDIT: Then again, I am on Maguuma, so that might explain some things…
Heh. I remember one time when a commander who spent considerable time explaining the ins and outs of WvW to a couple of new players. Of course, that was back when we were Ferguson’s Crossing, not … and Ferguson’s Crossing.
#AbleSentryRocks
I’ve seen several hypotheses in this thread as to why Marks were added to (formerly non-crafting) Ascended item gain. While it’s possible that ANet is aiming to kill several birds with one stone, it seems most likely that the primary reason is the hit to the precious economy that crafting-free Ascended gear would bring. I must admit, I’m of two minds. I could not possibly “hate” MMO crafting more than I do the crafting system in this game. On, the other hand, if I decide that I just am not going to get Ascended items outside of trinkets, then I get more gold for the mats I sell.
Elite Specializations - were a terrible idea
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419
As you say Guild Wars 1…. -sighs- i wish people would stop a) comparing GW2 and GW1, they are not the same game and never will be; and b) remember that GW1 was a balance hell due to dual classing (which by the way, we have now too in this game).
Yes, and Elite Specs (dual classing in GW2) are more of a balance issue than GW dual classing ever was. I can’t even call it a balance problem, because most of the Elite Specs seem to just be out and out better by design.
“Your approach is not going to work in GW2. If a rare and valuable item were to be available from a specific mob, with much better drop rates, players would farm the heck out of the mob. Since a lot of players are going to get kill credit, the drop rate would still need to be much lower than on other games in which a limited number of players (often just one, at most a party of X) gets a chance at the drop.”
This is exactly why it only works if you implement it everywhere. Not just in a few places. Also something I mentioned many times before. Indeed, when there is one ‘good’ item that drops from one mob this will happen and the value of that item will then drop making the currency approach the best again.
Now imagine this being implemented for almost all items all over the game. People can then still try to farm a mob, but what for? The item they want to buy with the cash is also available in a similar way and the amount of farming for the item they do not want (to then sell it to get money to buy the item they do want) will be more than the needed farming for the item they do want (because the lost you make on a sale).
Would people still decide to farm one mob for an item, then that items devaluates so farming it become not useful anymore. Farming (together) would not be efficient anymore. It changes the complete behavior. The behavior people now use in GW2 would not be efficient anymore and so people would be less likely to do it. Overall resulting in a better loot-system. Just look at the first two pages of the forum how many post there are currently about people complaining about loot.
This is why from the beginning of the game I talked about this and why I always think the cash-shop approach is bad (because it results in the current approach). The big question is, how big the impact is. In my opinion it’s huge because this is the sort of things that get people bored overtime, and no matter how great the rest of the game is, if people get bored they leave.
An “everywhere” approach is no less likely to fail. Some items are going to see greater demand than others based on community “consensus” on what’s hot and what’s not. Also, developers do not add in new stuff everywhere at once, they add a few pieces at a time. New items will be tend to be in greater demand. So, yes, people will farm one mob, or a few mobs rather than your idealized vision of people spreading out all over the various maps.
From days of long ago — well, in a gaming sense, anyway — I came to expect a death penalty. I came to respect it. I treked across Dereth to retrieve my best item, when the #^$%^@)$ Lugians took it off my corpse and tossed it aside. I braved Diablo in the catacombs below Tristram to get back all the stuff that spilled out around me when that beastie bested me. To have essentially nothing bad happen — to get all the goods around me whether I live or die — just doesn’t make sense to me.
The request is in all likelihood a result of expectations created by the existence of auto-deposit of loot in the first place. If there were no auto-deposit, then there would not be an expectation of auto-deposit of loot after defeat from foes tagged prior to defeat. Given that we have auto-deposit, It might be more understandable if the game did not award loot at all if you are defeated prior to the defeat of foes you’ve tagged.
Games in general, and specifically MMO’s, have changed drastically from the old days. More and more, players demand convenience features. Developers give such features to them due to that demand, and because games which lack them are given a bad rep. The thing is, convenience is a Pandora’s box that’s hard to close. As more developers accede to demands for it, it becomes more of an expectation of the MMO player demographic.
As much as some of us may look back with nostalgia at corpse runs, the truth is that games no longer demand corpse runs because a lot more players were turned off by the process than liked it. The idea of casual resurrection at a spawn point is old hat to MMO players. From a different perspective, casual resurrection is no less hard to swallow than auto-deposit of loot continuing after defeat, especially in light of resurrection.
As to the motivational angle, I have a hard time swallowing the idea that someone actively engaging in a WvW fight is not motivated to stay alive. The path of least resistance may apply to different aspects of WvW play. However, once one makes the decision to try to defeat the other guys, the desire to win, which is as much a part of human nature as path-of-least-resistance thinking, is going to take precedence.
My first online game was Guild Wars. It had a pretty hefty death penalty, as you may recall. GW2’s death penalty is almost non-existent. I try as hard to win fights in GW2 as I ever did in GW. While I can only speak for myself, I’d bet that is the prevailing attitude.
- Players can get loot without going near the mob’s corpse if they own HoT and have gotten through the Pact Commander Mastery line. The last Mastery in that line gives true auto-loot, as in auto-deposit to inventory.
- One of the “joys” of the mega-server system is that there are rarely any empty zones. Expect to see players in the persistent world when you play in PvE.
- It’s unlikely they are deliberately spoiling your test, they just are used to getting a drop by pitching in and don’t see the negative impact on you. Players are used to it not mattering if they attack a mob already in combat with someone else (what in other games would be considered kill-stealing). The original attacker (you, in your post) still gets loot, so they’re going to be thinking, “No harm done.”
- If the sPvP golem doesn’t do it for you, you could try opening up a story dungeon instance solo and fight the first few mobs.
(edited by IndigoSundown.5419)
There’s nothing stopping them from playing the raids though…nor the rest of the game.
The entire point was that a brand new player whose sole focus is raids can do so in around 30 hrs time. If you’re not new, and already have an established character etc…you can drastically reduce that.
Additionally, it’s such a small subset of time that’s actually required to raid that its somehow considered hardcore if you play more than 1hr a day ? Is this real…. like i don’t even at this point. Have facebook games really watered down gaming that much ?
What’s stopping people from playing raids is that those who have not committed to raids don’t have the knowledge or desire to start their own groups. So, they want a drop-in experience like we have in open world. People who have committed the time are unlikely to get that mentality and even if they do they’re not going to support it.
30 hours is not a “small subset of time” if one doesn’t play that much. That’s 30 hours dedicated solely to raid prep (I assume most if not all of that is gearing up). That might take 50 or 100 hours of play (or more) for those who like to do other things as well. Add in not playing for several hours a day and that puts you back in the realm of commitment.
And yes, as soon as developers decided they wanted the money from players from non-MMO demographics, MMO game populations have changed dramatically.
Well, GW2 also supports this choice. The vast majority of the content can be played pretty casually. It just happens to support the other choice, too.
Which is why players with a preference for X should stick to content that offers X. However, that is not what other games (or even schools in some places, mores the pity) teach people to expect.
The problem is not going to go away. The solution is people being willing to accept that not all content may be for them. As long as people have the attitude that anything the developer makes has to be for them on their terms, they’re going to complain.
I do agree not all content is for everyone. I disagree about the commitment though. I was succesfully raiding at my alt after 2/3 hours of play. Fractals were alot worse to be honest. I just grabbed a set of rare magi gear with crappy runes and sigils and cleared everything but xera (leyline gliding).
Numerous new guildies learned basic rotations in half an hour and were doing full clears in 3 hours. Two/three clears later most of them are really fun and effective raiders. Now sure we are a group with alot of highly effective raiders with many members that have spend large amounts of time in raids. Yet we also have alot of players that log in two/three times a month but they are also good raiders. I think you need a little skill and a sharp mind.
If you are finding time to level characters, do LW and participate in dungeons than you can also raid effectively in 2017.
Perhaps I could have been clearer. Doing a raid with little prep in a guild setting is one thing. It’s in trying to PuG that commitment in the form of pre-gearing, and research, is expected — and that’s if a pug group will take someone with no experience.
The solution is people being willing to accept that not all content may be for them. As long as people have the attitude that anything the developer makes has to be for them on their terms, they’re going to complain.
By my experience quite a lot accept it if there is something else to do.
Which was the problem I tried to describe. Raids are not too difficult: less difficult content is missing. If players would be busy they wouldn’t care (or care less) about raids.
I question just how big a demographic it is which plays in limited amounts, disdains WvW, PvP and open world, preferring only new small-group instanced content. It seems like most of those requesting easy mode raids are presenting lore and/or the rewards as their motivating factor.
- Weapons: A lot of the ones that came via HoT don’t look good. The ones that look good are mostly in the BS chests.
- Armor: most sets tend to be extremely ornate, even gaudy. Sometimes ornate can be tasteful, but the sets with stuff sticking out all over the place look terrible.
- Outfits: with some exceptions, way too many silly-looking protuberances.
Yes, I’d like to see more stuff that a real person would wear or wield, rather than the current styles, which no one in their right mind would fight in if their life were on the line.
While watching the Confed Cup final yesterday, I listened to a roomie play WvW. Regularly, I heard him say, “Lost the outnumbered buff just before the tick.” My thought is that if the outnumbered buff is intended to entice players to stay on an outnumbered map, then it ought to reward staying on that map, not moving to it with 20 seconds to go on the tick to try to score an extra five pips.
The problem is that taking skins earmarked for revenue production and using them as in-game rewards cannot help but have an impact on revenue. Low drop rates will not ameliorate the revenue loss unless the only people who’d try to farm them are those who would never buy them. That seems highly unlikely.
BL weapon skins are sold on the TP. Sure, there are players who will only go for such skins by buying off the TP. However, the people selling the skins on the TP are buying keys. If they are spending gold rather than cash, well, someone is spending cash and exchanging for gold. A reduction in demand for the skins would tend to reduce TP prices, making the whole process less attractive to everyone involved.
It’s too bad, really. I’d like to see more good-looking weapon skins as in-game drops. The in-game weapon skins ANet has produced over the last few years have been, with a few exceptions, unappealing.
There’s nothing stopping them from playing the raids though…nor the rest of the game.
The entire point was that a brand new player whose sole focus is raids can do so in around 30 hrs time. If you’re not new, and already have an established character etc…you can drastically reduce that.
Additionally, it’s such a small subset of time that’s actually required to raid that its somehow considered hardcore if you play more than 1hr a day ? Is this real…. like i don’t even at this point. Have facebook games really watered down gaming that much ?
What’s stopping people from playing raids is that those who have not committed to raids don’t have the knowledge or desire to start their own groups. So, they want a drop-in experience like we have in open world. People who have committed the time are unlikely to get that mentality and even if they do they’re not going to support it.
30 hours is not a “small subset of time” if one doesn’t play that much. That’s 30 hours dedicated solely to raid prep (I assume most if not all of that is gearing up). That might take 50 or 100 hours of play (or more) for those who like to do other things as well. Add in not playing for several hours a day and that puts you back in the realm of commitment.
And yes, as soon as developers decided they wanted the money from players from non-MMO demographics, MMO game populations have changed dramatically.
Well, GW2 also supports this choice. The vast majority of the content can be played pretty casually. It just happens to support the other choice, too.
Which is why players with a preference for X should stick to content that offers X. However, that is not what other games (or even schools in some places, mores the pity) teach people to expect.
The problem is not going to go away. The solution is people being willing to accept that not all content may be for them. As long as people have the attitude that anything the developer makes has to be for them on their terms, they’re going to complain.