Guild Wars 2

saalle.4623:

Here is why all those 3 options don’t work

- Custom Arenas you play with your PVP gear and with build which is not the same as WvW.I want to practice WvW and not pvp.
-Guild Halls is not place where i can duel with my friend (cause you know,he is not same guild).Also i can’t just inv every random guy i want to duel to my guild hall.
- WvW is not dueling place,it is war region where people go to pk,not to duel.Even if you find some1to duel,some1 else gonna come and kill you cause he don’t care,its war region after all.

So what is really reason not to add it?Is it hard?Takes too much time?Obsidium Arena works better when its dead?
Im glad Anet adding mounts,just for you no-sayers that are against it.

If ANet decides to change OS then so be it. My only objection is that it would be resources spent to make yet another out-of-the-way place to duel, when the primary reason the other options fail is because they are out-of-the-way. Convenience is the new bellwether as far as game features go.

Duels?

We already have three out-of-the-way options for dueling: Custom Arenas, Guild Halls and WvW itself — although all three have their issues. I don’t think the game needs another option for out-of-the-sight-of-most-players dueling. I believe a better feature would be the ability to duel (with some restrictions as to where, and with an opt-out to not accept duel requests as the default option) on the PvE maps. If there is a single reason why existing duel options are under-utilized, it’s that they are not convenient.

Issues? Sure.

• There would be the aforementioned need to create skins. Would they retroactively add skins for new weapons to existing sets (by sets I mean something like Chaos Weapons or Reclaimed), or just add them to new sets introduced going forward?
• There would also be the need to create anywhere from 2 to 5 skills per new weapon per profession that can use that weapon.

Those, as far as I can see, the issues. New skins for existing weapons get added all the time. New skills got added with the HoT Elite Specs. Obviously, neither is impossible due to a coding issue.

What’s more likely is that the barrier is the resources issue. ANet has decided that they need to push out new content on a regular, sustainable basis while also preparing a future XPac, all with declining store revenue. Artists are being asked to generate BL weapon skins on a regular basis, and I think we can assume there will be new sets of weapons for each XPac. Skill devs are working on the skills for the (presumed) new Elite Specs to accompany XPac 2. As Psientist says, we may see new weapon types in an XPac, but my guess is that if we do those weapons will be part of an Elite Spec and will only appear in weapon sets going forward.

Some people may like quests, but I sure don’t miss the repeated runs back and forth between the quest hub/givers and the quest areas.

If dungeon content is ever to be modified again, which I doubt, it might be more likely that some encounters would make their way in as fractals.

CJH.2879:

Hi everyone, thanks for the responses thus far, I have read through all of them. I would agree that some important points have been made such as>> yes it would indeed require a investment of some time & resources to implement a new race, however it would also be a BIG selling point in any future expansions, I think we can all agree that more races is always a plus at the end of the day & not a negative thing at all.

Yes, players want something new. That does not mean that a new race would not be a negative thing as far as the game’s future goes. A new race that would require more time spent creating armor sets (the new race does not share a base body type, as would almost certainly be the case with Tengu) would add to the perception that it takes ANet too long to produce new armor skins.

Then there’s the issue of whether a new race would start as L80 or would the XPac need new low level zones? Would the new race need to be able to play through the Personal Story? Finally, and perhaps more importantly, would the resources to make all of that happen delay other new content/features so that the negatives attached to that lack would outweigh the potential positives a new race would bring?

I cannot say whether there is some motivation on ANet’s part to have upcoming Elite Specs stand out as options or not. However, the idea that ANet made balance changes “just” for that reason ignores a great many facts. All one need do is revisit the WvW, PvE or profession sub-boards and/or the GW2 Reddit to see that the balance patch addressed at least some of the complaints about current skills and builds expressed by players. Whether those complainers think the changes addressed their real concerns or not is another matter.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

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— snip —

You may well be right, but the real take away from what I was saying should have been the zones are not dead, even though some people say they are. They’re not even close to dead. If they were, I couldn’t do the stuff I do pretty much every day or every other day.

The real take away ought to have been that the maps are not dead only for people who know how to and choose to work around the mega-server system. Experientially, maps appear dead because that is the experience of those who don’t do the work around for whatever reason, or those who try but get the full map message when they try to Join In.

Feanor.2358:

IndigoSundown.5419:

I believe that the only way to ensure that mega shards don’t appear dead would be for convenience tools like the LFG and Join In to be removed.

Your belief is so wrong. This is probably the only way to really kill these zones, and here is why.

The current system allows you to join an instance with a reasonably high chances of success. Removing it would basically mean you need to rely on RNG to end up in a successful zone. And while now you actually can step up and ensure the success of your instance (I’ve done this myself on many occasions), without the LFG you will have literally no power to affect the chances of successful meta. Meaning the removal of the LFG system will directly discourage players from even trying to play these zones. It’s a horrible idea.

P.S. And what if you want to play the meta with a friend? You need to rely on RNG to end up in the same instance again?

There is nothing wrong with my belief. That’s how the game used to work back when servers mattered for PvE. Those who chose not to guest to TC would hitch up their belts, go recruit people for metas in LA or DR and get stuff done, usually with far fewer people than we see in the shard of the cycle in HoT.

Had you chosen to quote my whole post instead of cherry-picking and taking out of context, you’d have seen that I said:

“I believe that the only way to ensure that mega shards don’t appear dead would be for convenience tools like the LFG and Join In to be removed. If that occurred, people might step up. I say might because while that’s what used to happen with dedicated servers, we also saw people guesting even back then. Guesting was a preview of the mega-server/LFG paradigm that’s in place now. I also say might because once a developer gives players convenience, at least some of them will rage and quit if that convenience is removed rather than reverting to a play-style where initiative and enterprise prevail.”

So, no. I’m well aware that once a developer has taken the genie out of the bottle, it’s unlikely to be put back in. Given the nature of the taxi system and the way people have grown to rely on it, it’s much more likely that your prediction would come true than that people who revert to older play patterns.

I still believe that the vanilla game was (and remains) the best value for the money of any MMO I’ve tried. Bundled with HoT, the value is still there, despite that ANet has moved the game away from some of my personal preferences. I hope you continue to enjoy GW2 for a long time.

While I am not opposed to the OP’s request, I don’t believe that its implementation would cause me to relax my stance on purchasing keys (I don’t, either with cash or gold). The entire point behind chests and purchased keys is to exploit low self control and player belief in the gambler’s fallacy to entice players to spend more to get specific virtual item X than an average, reasonable customer is likely to pay if the item were to be purchased outright. For that reason, I find it hard to believe that the pity system would kick in soon enough to suit me. Others’ mileage obviously varies, because enough people are buying the darned keys that ANet has not moved to a different system.

I can tell if another player is using bulky versus glass gear when I see what happens to their health bars when they get hit. I’d be guessing to get the exact prefix, but even there you can generally tell whether someone is using a power or condi build by the weapon they’re using, and there’s only so many possibilities for glass or bulky once you’ve determined condi or power.

I still believe that the person who starts a party should be immune to kicking unless they’re inactive for a few minutes or log out. If someone creates an “anything goes” party, they should not be kicked by people who have an agenda. I believe this because I also believe that someone who starts a meta party should be able to get the kind of experience they want.

I disagree thought that the meter is the cause of the kick. For meters to be promoting exclusion there would have to be more exclusion now than there was before meters were allowed. In the days before meters, there were as many or more complaints about kicking, it’s just that the reasons given (if the kickers even gave a reason) were something other than numbers shown by a meter. The cause is really a conflict of desires as far as playing the game goes. The meter is just the current excuse for the kick.

Sly.9518:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vs. Mobs: those slightly further away will be hit, somewhat increasing the effectiveness of the skill.
Vs. Players: Only the inattentive/unskilled will be hit, making the skill close to useless (the inattentive/unskilled can be easily defeated by almost anything).

So almost all the lil zerglings?

Fair point. You caught my mostly roaming myopia.

Vs. Mobs: those slightly further away will be hit, somewhat increasing the effectiveness of the skill.
Vs. Players: Only the inattentive/unskilled will be hit, making the skill close to useless (the inattentive/unskilled can be easily defeated by almost anything).

Vayne.8563:

I disagree with people who say the new zones are dead because you need LFG to get to them, because that’s how they were designed. It doesn’t make them dead, any mote than it makes any other form of content that needs coordination and people dead to use tools to find people to do it.

I don’t believe this to be the full story. The way mega server shards seem to propagate, and the number of people actually needed to complete zone metas says to me that ANet designed meta events to function independently of the LFG. If people stayed put, the mega server algorithms would likely result in most shards having enough people to advance a zone’s meta event. However, if people leave a zone to flock to fuller zones, this results in other shards being under-populated.

Throw in that there are (likely) a lot more followers than leaders. Even if there are enough people to complete an event, if the zone does not look organized, people will go to one that does. There is overwhelming evidence on these and other forums that as the MMO consumer base has aged, convenience has become of paramount importance.

I believe that the only way to ensure that mega shards don’t appear dead would be for convenience tools like the LFG and Join In to be removed. If that occurred, people might step up. I say might because while that’s what used to happen with dedicated servers, we also saw people guesting even back then. Guesting was a preview of the mega-server/LFG paradigm that’s in place now. I also say might because once a developer gives players convenience, at least some of them will rage and quit if that convenience is removed rather than reverting to a play-style where initiative and enterprise prevail.

Convenience, short attention spans and a desire for rapid gratification also cause at least some of the antipathy towards the LFG “solution” to “dead” zones. Once someone experiences the frustration of a “zone is full” notice when trying to Join In, the willingness to keep trying or come back later can get trumped by the myriad other forms of entertainment available on demand or other life concerns.

I really don’t think that there is a developer-side solution to the problem. ANet cannot remove the LFG or Join In without earning even more criticism than “dead” HoT maps bring. They cannot change peoples’ natures to make them choose a path of greater resistance. At best, they might be able to tweak the algorithms which open and close shards or change zone caps. I’m not convinced that either numerical manipulation would be better, though.

TL:DR: Mega-servers are designed so that most maps will have enough people to progress the meta. The “dead maps” issue’s primary cause is LFG/Join In, and there is little to nothing ANet can do to fix it. As seems to be par for the course in MMO’s these days, convenience is both the cause of complaints about the issue and the cause of the issue.

Heibi.4251:

IndigoSundown.5419:

I would support PvE world dueling between two consenting individuals, with the option to not receive duel requests as the default and with limitations on players dueling in social/work areas, like role-play hubs, bank, TP etc. I would not support small group fights or large group fights in the PvE world.

Why? The options that exist to duel (find a place in WvW and hope a zerg doesn’t run through; custom arenas and guild halls) are out of the way and thus not viable options for players who want to do something while waiting for a meta event to start. The option for players to fight one-on-one in the PvE world already exists in Costume Brawl, so some of the work to implement singleton duels has already been done.

One of the other issues would be getting whispers asking for duels and then the name calling afterwards if you say no. Though that is easily solved with report/block.

In all of my MMO gaming, I’ve only ever once been the recipient of such behavior, and I found out after the fact that people would not duel that individual because he was a kitttenhat about it, win or lose. So, he apparently got desperate for someone to duel and fell into shaming to get a fight. Thankfully, GW2 does offer block and report, should the rare occurrence take place, or if others are less lucky.

Conversely, I have also played several MMO’s that “featured” open world PvP. My experience with that feature was virtually the opposite of my experience with dueling. I can count on one hand the number of times I was attacked fairly, but would have needed a tally sheet to record the myriad times I was attacked while at a severe level disadvantage, was nearly dead from over-aggro of mobs or was ganged up on 2, 3 or more to one. That’s another reason I would not want full open PvP in the PvE world.

I saw a post in the WvW forum mentioning Vet levels or similar along with a bunch of other stuff about WvW, but it was taken down within a couple of hours of posting. I don’t know if I would put much stock in it unless you see something official (an ANet blog on their game site, or interview with someone known to be on the ANet team).

I would support PvE world dueling between two consenting individuals, with the option to not receive duel requests as the default and with limitations on players dueling in social/work areas, like role-play hubs, bank, TP etc. I would not support small group fights or large group fights in the PvE world.

Why? The options that exist to duel (find a place in WvW and hope a zerg doesn’t run through; custom arenas and guild halls) are out of the way and thus not viable options for players who want to do something while waiting for a meta event to start. The option for players to fight one-on-one in the PvE world already exists in Costume Brawl, so some of the work to implement singleton duels has already been done.

Hitman.5829:

Djinn.9245:

I disagree with the OP. If people want more diversity, add a utility slot. Swapping in combat is a bad idea.

You said it is a bad idea but you don’t say why it is a bad idea. If people want to swap skills while in combat, how does that affect those who don’t want to swap while on combat?

i don’t see how adding that option affects those who don’t want to swap, if you dont want to swap, then don’t swap.

Character build systems in games involve opportunity costs. If you take X, it’s at the cost of not being able to select Y. If you instead take Y, you have to sacrifice access to X. Opportunity costs make build design more interesting and also are a way to inject some semblance of fairness into the game.

If you tweak the build system so that players can switch between X and Y at will, then there is no opportunity cost to choice of skill. Anyone who chose not to switch would still have that opportunity cost. They’d be at a disadvantage when facing someone who does choose to switch.

Even in PvE, opportunity costs matter. Every time a need to make a meaningful choice is removed (i.e., it becomes possible to have X and Y at need instead of having to choose and make do without one), the game gets easier. For many, an easier game is boring, which prompts calls for ANet to change mobs to make the game harder. Each time that ANet complies to those requests they are spending resources that might instead produce content. Everyone loses.

Offair.2563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Tornupto.2304:

IndigoSundown.5419:

like when you cannot see adequately due to your character being up against a wall

There is a first person camera. Pretty usefull in such situations.

Not to me. I get vertigo if I play 1st person games.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endless_Miniature_Tonic

Friends using these in puzzles if their head gets stuck in a wall or whatever. Pretty helpful they say.

Thank you! I’ll look into it.

ThomasC.1056:

Vayne.8563:

I don’t really get the problem. Enemies are only interesting if they’re stronger than we are. If they’;re the same or weaker, what’s the point. If they can do only what I can do, and they can’t adjust their builds but I can, then they’re dead and not worth my time.

First of all, I would talk about encounters and not enemies because individual trash mobs aren’t that interesting in any case. And there’s a limit in the “stronger than we are” thing : it wouldn’t be enjoyable to be crushed at first blow

Now, when I think more about it, here’s an example of a system I enjoyed : GW1’s system. Mobs could “only do what I can do” : they had a profession, and a skillset that was a subset of the skill pool available to players. They often were bigger levels than the player too. Yet, they were running in packs with, say, one monk, one ranger, one mesmer, two warriors… Without a pinch of coordination and tactics, fights weren’t that easy.

Of course, it may have been a bit repetitive, but it was better than that design “Just toss a random amount of trash mobs on steroids” + “Add lots of CC to disable player’s ability to hit” we get currently. The issue is : GW1 had a profession system that GW2 has not. I mean : healers really could heal and protect, mesmers could hit far harder than retaliation or confusion etc. And it needs more IA programming.

Anyway, and to go back to that thread’s main purpose : in GW1, when a new skill was thought, designed, and put in game, it was both for players and mobs. In GW2, unfortunately, new skills are created only for mobs (expansions put aside of course), and to create a challenge that ends up tasting artificial, and leading to absurd power creep.

---

PS : I edited the thread title and part of my original post accordingly to suggestions, and I’m thankful for those who adressed them. I also wish to thank all those who are taking part in that thread in a polite and constructive way, even when some divergent opinions.

In GW, some mobs had skills that players did not have.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Monster_skill

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Do most players claim both? I can see claiming one or the other, but not both as the OP has.

It seems he started out saying they were dead. Then someone advised he use the LFG, he did so, got kicked and when he logged back in and tried to rejoin the instance he was participating in, he found the map was full. So, it seems his perception changed as the thread progressed.

Sorry for any confusion.

Runiir.6425:

IndigoSundown.5419:

While I can see that it might be frustrating to see a mob which has a skill we cannot use, sometimes they need such advantages. After all, they cannot switch weapons, traits and utilities to counter particular player builds, while players can do so to counter mob builds.

This is irrelevant, you can’t swap on the fly in PvP either yet people do just fine with what they have.

Talk about irrelevant. This comment ignores that players who PvP seriously design a build with as much knowledge as possible of what they are likely to face. It also ignores that their opponents are doing the same thing. Thirdly, it ignores that the OP is talking about mobs in PvE, where ANet intends for players to change their builds to deal with different challenges.

Tornupto.2304:

IndigoSundown.5419:

like when you cannot see adequately due to your character being up against a wall

There is a first person camera. Pretty usefull in such situations.

Not to me. I get vertigo if I play 1st person games.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

How can the maps be dead, and full, at the same time? Seems kind of contradictory.

Megaserver. New maps get an influx of players, some of whom then Join In other maps, leaving one map nearly full and another seemingly empty. Those specifically there to do a map meta are mostly going to transfer to a fuller map. Those who don’t are either: (1) ignorant of the need or process; (2) unwilling; or (3) there for some other reason. HoT maps are plenty big enough to absorb enough population to keep the map open while seeming empty. Those complaining about empty maps are more likely to be from groups 1 or 2.

Kyrus.7218:

Yes, he’s being whiny and destructive. No, we don’t like the direction his behavior is going. But y’know what? We aren’t supposed to. When a protagonist does things you don’t like, that’s an arc in the making, perhaps a fall from grace and subsequent redemption. That’s classic character development. It creates tension, and tension creates emotional investment, and emotional investment creates good stories. Braham might end up being the best thing to happen to this crapshoot of a story so far. Gods know none of the other supporting cast have anything going for them right now. Will he throw a tantrum if Jormag goes silent? Will he amass an army and cause more needless death? I don’t know about you, but I’m excited to find out!

Braham is not a protagonist. He is, by definition, a supporting character. My distaste for Braham as a supporting character is rooted in the fact that there is no option for me to do what I would do were I actually in command when faced with someone being a childish kittenhat. This generates a feeling that my contribution to the story resides solely in starting the story, listening to NPC’s emote and my “self” say many things I would not say, and doing almost all the fighting. The only part of that I find enjoyable is the last item.

So, no. I am not being critical of Braham. I am being critical of being forced to tolerate him.

JP’s are going to be favored content for some, but not for others. There is no harm in their being content not aimed at everyone. The only issues I have with JP’s are: sometimes it seems like the difficulty is based around limitations of the engine — like when you cannot see adequately due to your character being up against a wall; and the gliding thing — though at least if the glider will activate in a puzzle, I don’t die when I miss the spot I aimed at.

While I can see that it might be frustrating to see a mob which has a skill we cannot use, sometimes they need such advantages. After all, they cannot switch weapons, traits and utilities to counter particular player builds, while players can do so to counter mob builds.

I cannot defend the Legendary Medium armor, though if I could I would defenestrate it — preferably from the top floor of a skyscraper. Like many ANet designs, Legendary Armor in its entirety looks impractical and overly ornate.

A little late, but I’ll weigh on the so-called mastery grind.

During the first HoT reveal, Masteries were spoken of almost immediately after the statement that there would be no level cap increase (with no accompanying new gear tier). They were touted as horizontal rather than vertical progression. All MMO progression systems involve time spent.

Masteries are gained by two currencies: XP and Mastery Points.

XP: This seems to accrue quickly, if you are doing event chains. For example: the past couple of days, I ran around HOT getting exploration objectives and Mastery Points (insights and strongboxes). For two days, the track I was on ( Itzel Leadership, requiring 3.3 million XO, increased by < 10%. Last night, I switched to Nuhoch Stealth Detection (requiring 2.54 million XP) and went from 0 to ~2/3’s complete during a single Dragon’s Stand meta (start to finish). Either way, gaining XP is just a matter of playing the game. If you don’t like the content that the game offers to gain that XP, it’s going to feel like grind unless the XP needed can be gained in a few hours. If you like the content, and would play it anyway, it will not feel like grind.

Points: Some are easy, some are very grindy. In Tyria, I started with 22 grandfathered points, and have since gained 8 more. I maxed Pact Commander out of the box and completed the fractals track later. Some of the remaining points are definitely long-term projects, and some I will never get (all cultural armor, for instance, as I have no desire to create an Asura or Charr).

Heart of Maguuma points on the other hand, involve very little in the way of long-term objectives. Instead, you’ve got enough points in map objectives (strongboxes, insights, story steps and map event points) to get all but the niche Masteries like Adrenal Mushrooms and the last three in the Exalted Track. If you want to max all of the Mastery lines, rather than grind you have to go into niche content (story achievements where you may end up repeating the story multiple times), raids or adventures (oh, how I hate the idea that completing progression might require playing with a mini-game build and not my own). Some people may feel like points in Maguuma are grind if they avoid and/or dislike the niche content.

Finally, there is a psychological factor involved. Sometimes people like the idea of gaining game objectives on their own. Others use online resources that show them how to get stuff done easily. If you are in the former group, then getting the on map points may seem grindy — particularly if exploration is not your strong suit. There’s no denying that HoT maps are more difficult to navigate than core ones. If you’ve no idea where you’re going or why, and if you seem to end up in the same spot when you think you’ve gone in a different direction, then gaining the map points can be frustrating. For instance, of the 21 points I gained in the last two days, I stumbled onto 7-8 of them (3 DS exploration and 4 or 5 DS meta points) and looked at online cheats for the rest, which is a departure from my usual play preference. Still, I would say that the Maguuma points, while they can be frustrating, don;’ meet the criteria for grind,

Nereikia.3507:

Warcry.1596:

Why not just set up auto pay for $10/month and get 800 gems monthly? Same thing as to what you’re saying =/

But no! It’s not the same thing. In ‘ptp games’ (two healthy examples are WoW and FFxiv) you get a rewarding content for your 9-12 euros/dollars per month. And in GW2 you’ll get almost nothing. Not to mention that almost all in-game activities in GW2 are absurdly unrewarding for now. Anet makes more and more pay walls and time gates to encourage players to buy gems with real money (don’t get me wrong pls, i understand how FtP works, and i’m fine with that), but it doesn’t seem that many gw2players are very enthusiastic about this design at the present time (inc. myself: i’ve got an active subscription in ffxiv now, but i won’t buy gems in gw2, i think they’re overpriced, and you can feel free to call me cheap, i don’t mind, dear).
Long story short, you can buy an outfit or convert your 800 gems into gold (what cool stuff can you actually buy from TP for that amount of gold? it’s a rethorical question), but if you compare that to the rewards you can get in a ptp-game after a month of playtime, you’ll see the difference. And it’s huge. o/

P.S. Only wanted to mention that $10 can have a different value in another business model.
I’m sorry for my english.

Funny… I played WoW during the BC/Wrath period and I recall paying the industry standard fee for Wrath as well as the monthly sub. I also recall that “free” content in between XPac’s was few and far between. in fact, it was less often than this game, now that ANet has hit its 2-3 month release cadence. I have a hard time believing that WoW is doing a better job. The best predictor of current or future performance is past performance.

ANet has gone to some length to promote anonymity in WvW. A bounty system, while it would not reveal the name, would work against that anonymity. I always thought, if I wanted to see a particular player be defeated in WvW, I should defeat him myself.

ANet has painted itself into a corner. Raids come with the baggage of (many) raiders who demand that raids must have better rewards than anything else in the game. When they introduced raids, Anet threw in the one reward that had sufficient cachet to fulfill that expectation. If they are now going to pull the plug on further Legendary Armor sets (presumably due to a huge amount of work for relatively little payoff), I have no clue what they can use instead.

Imo what they should have done was to come up with something besides L. Armor to serve as the primary raid reward. That they didn’t suggests they might be as clueless as to what else raiders might accept as I am.

Astralporing.1957:

IndigoSundown.5419:

I remember Colin Johanson’s, “Is it fun” blog from before launch. That approach lasted exactly as long as it took initial adopters to get their dungeon set. It was not long after launch when the complaints about no goals, nothing to work toward, etc. approached critical mass. And we still hear such complaints. It was complaining players who disabused ANet of the idea that an MMO player base would repeat content long enough for fun so that ANet could produce more new stuff. At that point, they began adapting the game to rewards-based incentives — just like the other MMO’s.

Ironically, the dungeons from your example proved beyond all doubt that you don’t need unique/exclusive rewards for the content to be popular. It was the generic rewards that made (and then killed) dungeons. And it’s also not Ad Infinitum that makes Fractals popular.

Dungeon generic reward popularity was because of the many non-exclusive rewards the game offers, all of which to some extent either require large amounts of farming or the use of gold to bypass some (or a lot of) that farming. The problem with dungeon gold farms is that players played the easy paths only — which is because farming is always going to be a max reward for minimum investment kind of thing. The hard paths were ignored except by the players who could complete them expeditiously.

I remember the exec brought in to salvage AoC saying something to the effect of, “Our demographics show that most players play hard content as little as possible, and seem to prefer to repeat easier content.” Since no content in an MMO gets repeated unless there is some reward, the only way to entice players to repeat hard content to the extent that an MMO needs for them to is put in rewards that cannot be gotten elsewhere. That’s because of basic human nature coupled with the MMO business model.

The gear progression the OP favors is a classic example. The best stats were in raids, and it took many repeats to gear up the whole raid party. I greatly prefer skins being locked behind content I don’t care to complete than BiS stats.

Astralporing.1957:

Feanor.2358:

There must be an incentive to revisit content you’ve tried.

Yes, there shoudl be. It’s called “fun”. And the only thing necessary for that incentive to work is to not disincentivize the content by having the generic rewards for that content be subpar compared to difficulty/time invested.

I remember Colin Johanson’s, “Is it fun” blog from before launch. That approach lasted exactly as long as it took initial adopters to get their dungeon set. It was not long after launch when the complaints about no goals, nothing to work toward, etc. approached critical mass. And we still hear such complaints. It was complaining players who disabused ANet of the idea that an MMO player base would repeat content long enough for fun so that ANet could produce more new stuff. At that point, they began adapting the game to rewards-based incentives — just like the other MMO’s.

Makes no sense?

It makes perfect sense if you look at the nature of MMO’s. MMO’s survive by offering virtual stuff that players will want tied to as much repetition of existing content as the developer thinks players will tolerate. GW2 started out by hyping the idea that players would repeat content because it was fun. Within a few weeks, players were saying, “I’m bored, there’s nothing to work towards.” Now, we have repetition for stuff to make virtual gewgaw X.

Sombrero.9204:

And lastly the elite specs are not at all the same idea. The elite spec are just ONE among several new specialization. The specialization system doesn’t give access to much more options. Each elite spec give you 5 “utility” a new weapon with its spells and that’s pretty much it (ok sometimes a new mechanic). In the end when you will have 4 elite to choose from you will simply pick the one you prefer. And everybody picking the same as you will be identical.

It’s a very very very reduced version of asian MMOs offering evolution of classes after X level (example mage becoming archmage or sorcerer etc). Here you just have a very very poor amount of new spells to play with and that’s it.

They do if you consider the product rather than the means to get there. Druid healers remind me more than a little of a Ranger/Rit Healer spec used by a friend in Random Arenas. If your goal is to get a huge list of skills to choose from, well, that’s unlikely to happen unless ANet changes their minds dramatically. If your goal is to have one profession play like a different profession, that’s available now, at least to some degree.

It’s possible that this is where Anet is going with Elite Specs. They’re doing it in a way that limits the possibility of unintended synergy, but if you think about it, they are doing it — at least with some of the specs. Taken loosely, consider the following:

Dragonhunter: dual class Guardian/Ranger
Druid: dual class Ranger/GW Monk
Tempest: dual class Elementalist/GW Paragon

Essentially, what a secondary class did in GW was add a way of playing the class that the class itself does not have access to. That is the essence of what Elite Specs are meant to provide.

Labjax.2465:

I don’t think I conveyed myself clearly. It was not my intention to criticize those who seek difficult-to-attain items. I was commenting on status symbols and how it is unfulfilling to seek a status symbol, since it is ultimately just a symbol and doesn’t fulfill one’s needs. I was not referring to the process of completing a goal, which can fulfill one’s need for fun and recreation.

The difference in what I’m saying is in what the reason is for which one does the activity. If someone completes a collection for the fun of achieving a goal that is different from completing a collection to gain a status symbol; when completing a goal purely for the status symbol, the person is unlikely to get any satisfaction out of the process or the results and may come away upset that it didn’t provide the satisfaction they thought it would. When completing a goal for the fun of the process, the person will be getting satisfaction as they go along and then get a sense of satisfaction when they are finished, before moving onto another goal or something else in their life.

The psychology of status symbols is fairly simple. People seek status symbols because they value something about them. They think, “Someone who has attained X is looked up to!” because they would look up to such a person. Once they obtain a status symbol, they think others are looking up to them because they would be, and because people will generally assume that anyone else who matters thinks the way they do. Another side of this behavioral tendency is that it allows people to marginalize those who do think differently than they do.

Ieronim.1738:

Hello GW2 Team.
I do not really like pve, and I do not like raids.
Where is the alternative?! WvW? sPVP? No, this does not exist, only pve raids.
Not everyone wants to spend hours and days in pve raids.
You disconnect most of the players from the legendary armor!
Why?!

The answer to, "Why? is simple. The MMO phenomenon of raids evolved to have rewards that were better than anything else. While there are certainly some players who would do the raids for the challenge, raids were put in to attract a wider demographic than those who want challenge and don’t care about anything else. In order to offer such a reward without resorting to better stats (i.e., a new gear tier), ANet had to have something or a vast majority of raiders would not bother repeating raid content enough to warrant the effort to create it.

Tarasicodissa.7084:

It’s called legendary armor, not pleb armor. Either git gud or you’ll never have it, that’s the whole point of it.

IF Legendary Armor is the reward for getting good, then it should be awarded to the top tier players in sPvP, not players who can beat artificial “intelligence.”

Ashantara.8731:

Danikat.8537:

Shared inventory slots are already available in the gem store and gathering tools already can be placed in them.

But you can’t use them from there, so it isn’t a convenient “solution” at all.

I find putting my only set of infinite gathering tools into a shared slot enormously more convenient than either:

1. Clogging each character’s inventory with up to 11 slots worth of gathering tools.
2. Purchasing multiple infinite tools.

When asked in 2014 about gear tiers with stats above the Ascended/Legendary tier, then Game Director Colin Johanson said, “I hope not.” I echo that sentiment. Gear progression is a pointless exercise in busywork.

Three of us were attempting to complete the story chapter Prisoners of the Dragon on two separate occasions this week. We’ve done the instance three times. At one point, we find Eir and Faolain in the Mordrem prison. Eir speaks, we notice Faolain and comment on her presence. She speaks. Then Eir says something like, “Forget her, get me (us?) out of here.” All three times, one of us have DC’d at this point in the story. The first two times the DC’d player happened to be the instance owner, which resulted in the other two being kicked. The third time, the player DC’d was not the owner, which allowed two of us to complete the chapter, but not the third.

Is this a known bug? Is there a workaround? We’d like to continue the story but the player who has not completed the chapter has limited play time and feels he’s wasted enough of it already until this is fixed. All three of us are playing at the same IP address, have the 64 Bit version of GW2 and Windows 10. Any advice or information would be appreciated.

Danikat.8537:

Wanze.8410:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Wanze.8410:

according to gw2efficiency, the average is 99 mastery points.

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/statistics.masteryPoints

I suspect that database is probably skewed towards players who think of the game as a hobby. Hobbyists will tend to spend more time in a game than those who view the game as merely a pastime. I suspect that pastime players cba to register on such sites. Whether pastime players would have a lower MP average than hobbyists seems likely, but who knows?

I agree but those player accounts are the ones you are most likely to see running around in game as well.

I think it’s true that people who use GW2 Efficiency are more likely to be regular, committed players who will be online a lot, but even so it’s only going to be a sub-set of them. There’s likely to be just as many, if not more, who are online just as much but have never registered with the site, and may not even have heard of it.

Just like it’s a reasonable assumption that if someone is on the forum a lot they’re also playing the game a lot (although there are definitely exceptions) but it’s still only a minority of ‘committed players’ who post here.

There was a time — mostly during last year’s content drought — during which I was (it seemed) always the one with the lowest Mastery total. Now, though, I see a lot more players with lower totals than mine. And I’m still lower than the GW2E average of 99 shared by Wanze.

Wanze.8410:

according to gw2efficiency, the average is 99 mastery points.

https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/statistics.masteryPoints

I suspect that database is probably skewed towards players who think of the game as a hobby. Hobbyists will tend to spend more time in a game than those who view the game as merely a pastime. I suspect that pastime players cba to register on such sites. Whether pastime players would have a lower MP average than hobbyists seems likely, but who knows?

I never run the event locator. I find events as I run around exploring or harvesting stuff.

Most complaints on these boards can be reduced down to someone wanting X because they will be more entertained. Entertainment is completely and utterly subjective. There are no really objective complaints other than those about bugs.

ANet is in the entertainment business. Thus, every complaint is valuable information about their customer base. ANet has made a lot of changes to GW2 in the last 4.5+ years in response to such subjective player complaints. For instance, there were a lot of complaints about the price of gathering materials being too low. In response to those complaints, ANet made changes to the game which changed that. So don’t tell us that ANet does not act based on peoples’ subjective complaints. They just don’t act on all of them.

They can’t. All customers do not necessarily agree on what they want. Also, the business realities of running an MMO can conflict with player desires — particularly the desires of players who want instant (or at least rapid) gratification, which is contrary to MMO business design. Finally, as much as ANet might want to keep everyone happy, the amount of work needed to get anywhere close to such would be prohibitive.

AliamRationem.5172:

The game provides numerous examples of niche gameplay. What you find too complicated or confusing, others consider a great feature of the game. There are 4 maps in HoT, and only one of them really pushes the envelope on this. You say it’s poor design, but as TD is my favorite map and I’m dying to see at least one more like it in the next expansion, I have to disagree. They didn’t make all of the maps so confusing.

There is truth to this statement. The problem is this:

1. HoT is GW2’s first expansion
2. It came after 3+ years of core being the game
3. There were numerous changes to core over those three years. Many of those changes made core even easier that it was already perceived by veterans. The New Player Experience is the most visible of those changes, but was by no means the only one. So, ANet took an (perceived to be) easy game and made it easier. By easier, I mean not only was combat easier, figuring out what to do in the game was easier. For instance, early zone hearts were changed so that players earned heart credit via one click, where before they’d had to do two or three.
4. The rationale ANet offered for the NPE was to attract players who found GW2 too difficult to get into.
5. If people are going to buy a game expansion, it seems like it ought to offer them what they want.
6. Due to ANet’s business model, HoT is presented as being the game going forward.
7. That means that anyone who wants to be active in the game ought to buy HoT. For instance, to get access to Living World updates, people need to buy HoT.
8. People who wanted challenge, difficult exploration, raids and whatever else HoT offers got what they wanted (at least to some extent).
9. Meanwhile, those who wanted more of the same play they apparently liked in core did not get what they wanted.

So, people who wanted challenging combat and exploration were given something that the game had so far lacked. However, there was a portion of the player base that ANet had made multiple attempts to cater to who got XPac zones they found difficult to navigate, with mobs they did not enjoy fighting. This was, to my mind, a questionable business decision. Had GW2 left core difficulty as it was in Beta Weekend Event 1, HoT mob difficulty would not have been an issue. It’s as if Anet wanted to appeal to various points on the player continuum, including both ends, but keep fumbling in their attempts to do so.

I can see both sides of the argument. Had HoT been just more core, they might have lost the players who wanted more engagement. As it is, they may have lost players who didn’t want that much engagement. in hindsight, ANet also lost some people to the whole “HoT is not worth the price/vets shafted/no character slot/etc.” mess. So, in hindsight, a first XPAc that offered a more balanced mix of content (in terms of who it was aimed at) might have better served ANet’s business interests.

Labjax is certainly correct in saying that entertainment products have a (sometimes very) short window in which to hook people. The thing is, people whose goal was “interesting fights in an area that requires me to struggle to learn it” were hooked by HoT from the beginning. However, the same experience did not hook those who just wanted to show up and blow off some steam after a frustrating day at work.

Vayne.8563:

Many of us came to this game so we wouldn’t feel compelled to grind for stuff like legendaries. It should always be a choice. Add something like that to it, and suddenly it’s less of a choice. And that, in my opinion, would be very bad for the game.

In full agreement. While 1% might not appear to be a big deal, it would set a precedent that I would not want to see set.

The amount of gold required to purchase gems being high works in ANet’s favor.

• With a higher rate, players purchasing gems to exchange for gold get more gold for their money.
• Thus, a a higher conversion rate makes it more likely that such players will want to spend real money to get gold.
• A higher conversion rate also makes it less cost effective for gold sellers to compete with ANet.
• When you couple higher conversion rates with short-term item availability and short-term sales, it’s more likely players will decide to spend real money to get item X, because they don’t have enough gold and are unlikely to get enough gold to convert before the short-term window ends. Even if players do farm the gold, the increase in gold put into the gold-to-gems exchange makes the rate go up, which again makes buying gems to convert to gold more attractive.

ANet is running a business which depends on gem sales to fund ongoing operations. They are not motivated to make it easier for players to get the gem-store items they want with less gold.

DoctorDing.5890:

Half the people in the game have below average luck.

Add to that that “average” luck means it takes a lot of “rolls” on the RNG table to get a particular something one wants. The issue, as I believe Danikat says, is that people tend to think that “phenomenally good luck” is how it should be. This then gets equated with average in their minds when the reality is that average luck blows chunks, particularly with regard to gamble boxes. The purpose of the gamble box in MMO stores is to get people to spend more money (for a given gewgaw) than they would for the item if they could purchase it directly.