Guild Wars 2

Jay.3284:

Daecollo.9578:

Causic.3798:

Jay.3284:

Red Mages are the only class that can cast two vastly different kinds of magic – white and black, making them a “jack-of-all-trades”. The disadvantage is it cannot cast very powerful magic from either color, so being proficient in many arts, it is a master of none. They can also use swords, but they are not as good at using it as a fighter.

Rangers can do good damage, but not as good as Warriors.
Rangers can cure conditions/give regeneration, but not as good as Guardians.
Rangers can evade attacks very well, but not as good as a Thief.
Rangers can put boons on themselves, but not as good as Elementalist.
Rangers can put conditions on someone, but not as good as a Necromancer.
Rangers can have diversity, but not as good as an Engineer.

A ranger can spec in a way to do all of this well, even at once, but he will never be as good as the inherent classes above.

I have a serious question,
How is a Ranger more of a Jack of all Trades than a Warrior.

Warriors can do good damage (as can most professions if specced)
Warriors can cure conditions/heal shout, but not as good as Guardians.
Warriors can evade attacks (access to vigor) very well, but not as good as a Thief.
Warriors can put boons on themselves(via shouts), but not as good as Elementalist.
Warriors can put conditions on someone, but not as good as a Necromancer.
Warriors can have diversity, but not as good as an Engineer.

I thought this game was desingned so that every class can do anything is specced for it.
How does a Jack of all Trades fit in with this? Warriors can do anything Rangers can in this regards, only thing Rangers got is micromanaging (having the ablility to do 2 things at once via pets).

Warriors can do good damage (as can most professions if specced)

Warriors have very little condition removal without giving up many many points in the class, they have to sacrifice a lot to get it, its usually just not worth getting. They don’t even touch a ranger or guardian on condition removal.

False. A Warrior has far better condition removals than Ranger. Put 20 points in Tactics for Warhorn trait. Also Mending and Signet of Stamina

Warriors have very little to no access to vigor, and have to give up a utility slot or spec signets to get 50% endurance regeneration, which is very little to other classes options that get endurance when using abilities, they are “very mediocre” to dodging, but many people do not like signet warriors, signets really are not that good. They don’t even touch a ranger or thief on dodging.

Once again, the 20 you have in tactics and the fact your warhorn gives you vigour + Signet of Stamina = more dodging and damage mitigation than a Ranger… Also you can slap on endure pain if you feel like it

Warriors can put boons on themselves, but only offensive ones, they have little to no access to protection and regeneration without putting 30 points in there worst tree, and even then they are extremely immobile when they do this. Rangers and Elementalists rock them out of this, just because of these facts.

To say Rangers can put more boons on than a Warrior? You obliviously haven’t touched the class. Once again just 20 in tactics means Infinite Might/Fury/Swiftness with FGJ + Signet of Rage

Warriors can put conditions on someone, but most enemies just ignore it and go: OH MY GOD MY FACE THE DAMAGE NUMBERS. Warriors are very bad at conditions, probably one of the worst classes for it. Rangers and Necromancers rock them on this.

Sword actually puts out more bleeds than shortbow Ranger but ill give you this

Warriors can have diversity, but they must give up 30-55 trait points to do it (making them a lot less damage then ranger and engineer.), and even then they give up a lot for it. Rangers and Engineers rock them on this.

False, You just need 20 in tactics…. Mending? / FGJ / Signet of Stamina / Endure Pain? / Signet of Rage

Try actually playing the Warrior

Condition removal: Pets, Signet, Nature Spirit, Evasive purity, shared anguish, empathic bond.

Evades: Easy 5pt access to endurance regen, at least 2 traits that give vigor, a skill, and the many built in dodges built into the weapons.

Boons: Debatable, we can put up perma regen,fury,. A lot of might-stacking, boons from traits, plus the spirit boons.

Conditions: Yea we do a lot more in addition to bleeds.

Diversity: I don’t know the warrior class enough to know diversity when I see it, but I see many GC greatsword warriors. Also, demanding 20 into a certain trait line is not exactly diverse.

Causic.3798:

Jay.3284:

Red Mages are the only class that can cast two vastly different kinds of magic – white and black, making them a “jack-of-all-trades”. The disadvantage is it cannot cast very powerful magic from either color, so being proficient in many arts, it is a master of none. They can also use swords, but they are not as good at using it as a fighter.

Rangers can do good damage, but not as good as Warriors.
Rangers can cure conditions/give regeneration, but not as good as Guardians.
Rangers can evade attacks very well, but not as good as a Thief.
Rangers can put boons on themselves, but not as good as Elementalist.
Rangers can put conditions on someone, but not as good as a Necromancer.
Rangers can have diversity, but not as good as an Engineer.

A ranger can spec in a way to do all of this well, even at once, but he will never be as good as the inherent classes above.

I have a serious question,
How is a Ranger more of a Jack of all Trades than a Warrior.

Warriors can do good damage (as can most professions if specced)
Warriors can cure conditions/heal shout, but not as good as Guardians.
Warriors can evade attacks (access to vigor) very well, but not as good as a Thief.
Warriors can put boons on themselves(via shouts), but not as good as Elementalist.
Warriors can put conditions on someone, but not as good as a Necromancer.
Warriors can have diversity, but not as good as an Engineer.

I thought this game was designed so that every class can do anything is specced for it.
How does a Jack of all Trades fit in with this? Warriors can do anything Rangers can in this regards, only thing Rangers have for themselves is micromanaging (having the ability to do 2 things at once via pets). I thought that would be what ANet focuses Rangers on.
So ANet will try to make them more “Jack-of-all-Trades”-ey than any other class instead of focusing on any one thing?

But the ranger can do most of those things better than the warrior. I don’t know the warrior class too well, but damage is probably the only thing they have on ranger. You are welcome to argue that since you probably know warrior more than I do.

Daecollo.9578:

Jay.3284:

Daecollo.9578:

Jay.3284:

Since your points are mostly the same as someone’s else I’m going to copy and paste

Jay.3284:

2. While surviving in a dungeon is important, you can’t efficiently bring that to the team. Granting vigor to allies with Healing Spring is good on paper, but it is not effective in the real world. It requires allies to stand in a certain spot for a certain time to get the full affects of it. Leaving them stationary in an area for a prolonged period of time to get a 15 second vigor if they absolutely don’t get attack. (And if they don’t get attacked and managed to get the full 15 second vigor, they didn’t need it in the first place). I’m better off with a Guardian/Warrior/Necro/Ele/Engi for surviving those extended periods of time

3. Search and Rescue scales HORRIBLY at the higher levels. Using this move at 80+ and in dungeons is such a waste of time and only slightly useful at high level Jade Maw. Using it anywhere else is a waste of a utility bar. Oh and Lick Wounds is good if it works; and if it works then there’s even more of a chance a mob will go after to you since your pet is on top of you. I’m better off with a thief for reviving

4. Pets can’t tank in dungeons AT ALL unless you do 30 in BM; and if you do so, your damage is kitten poor and not worth the time. I’m better off with a Ele/Guardian/Warrior for taking AND dishing out that damage

5. Healing Spring again; read point 2. and replace vigor with regeneration. Also Ranger’s don’t have their OWN blast finisher’s to fully utilize their own healing spring. I’m better off with an Ele/Engi for condition removers/regeneration/water fields

6. Nature Spirit is killable. It also takes you out of the battle to summon it in a safe position. Even then when you do summon it in a decent position, most likely than not, your allies will not get the benefits of it… meaning the passive and the active. I’m better off with an Ele/Necro/Guard/Wa for healing and instant reviving

7. Spotter? Losing Piercing arrows for Spotter? I’m better off with Ele/Wa/Engi/Mesm/Guard/Necro for offensive skills

8. Once again Search and Rescue scales HORRIBLY at the higher levels. It’s completely useless by itself, and even WITH QZ, it revives almost/as fast as a player who would revive the player them-self. Also other classes have access to Quickness and the 2 second Quickness on swap with pets isn’t enough for a pet to actually do something with Search And Rescue. While I agree Rangers are the 2nd best when it comes to reviving those downed players; I’m better off with a Thief for reviving because of stealth and a way to de-aggro mobs from them being downed

9. Rangers are good against condition removal? Have we been playing the same class? Have you even played the other classes? To say this as a statement is so asinine. For condition remover, I’m better off with a Wa/Guard/Thief/Mesm/Ele/Engi/Necro.

No reason to pick a ranger over any of the other classes in a dungeon.

Edit: Grammar. I’ll go over it once more when I’m not tired

Yes, you are better as a Wa/Guard/Thief/Mesm/Ele/Engi/Necro, but a Ranger can do all of this without having to be those classes, they are Jack of all trades.

“Jack of all trades, master of none” is a figure of speech used in reference to a person that is competent with many skills but is not necessarily outstanding in any particular one.

They are the Red Mage of gw2, they do pretty much everything.

They do everything at a subpar level. No point in bringing them in a dungeon run at all.

Edit : Words

Red Mages are the only class that can cast two vastly different kinds of magic – white and black, making them a “jack-of-all-trades”. The disadvantage is it cannot cast very powerful magic from either color, so being proficient in many arts, it is a master of none. They can also use swords, but they are not as good at using it as a fighter.

Rangers can do good damage, but not as good as Warriors.
Rangers can cure conditions/give regeneration, but not as good as Guardians.
Rangers can evade attacks very well, but not as good as a Thief.
Rangers can put boons on themselves, but not as good as Elementalist.
Rangers can put conditions on someone, but not as good as a Necromancer.
Rangers can have diversity, but not as good as an Engineer.

A ranger can spec in a way to do all of this well, even at once, but he will never be as good as the inherent classes above.

This.

Now that doesn’t mean they suck at all those things, they just aren’t top at them. The plus is that they can fill all of those roles more easily than any other class.

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

I agree with you OP, lol love the ranger. I chose it because I usually chose ranger classes, I didn’t know anything about the professions beforehand as it was my first time playing. It wasn’t exactly a traditional ranger class, but I grew to love it. Whenever I play a different class it feels more boring.

Stoneslammer.3650:

Bob.8456:

I was a Ranger main in GW1 as well, and almost never ran BM builds until the end when they finally freed up the charm animal skill slot requirement. I was a huge fan of interrupts and was quite sad to see them go (as we knew them at least) in GW2, and was also skeptical of the perma-pet arrangement at first…but this is getting ridiculous. I cannot wait until everyone who has beef with pets as class mechanic just pick another class already. You guys do realize that there isn’t ANY class in GW2 that allows you to ignore the class mechanic and be considered a ‘good player?’ Well guess what? Rangers in GW2 have pets, and if you cannot use them effectively you are losing out on a WHOLE lot more than just 30% of your DPS (I HATE it when people keep obsessing on this singular point…DPS, DPS, DPS).

Example: Currently I am traited to put protection on me and my pet on each dodge roll, I receive vigor on each pet swap and every heal I cast as well as run lightning reflexes which is a dodge and vigor buff. I dodge every time either myself OR MY PET are about to get hit and with the constant vigor up (as well as the passive 50% bonus endurance regen trait) that is pretty much a dodge ready anytime I need it to reduce my pets damage by 1/3. Don’t like traiting to keep your pet alive? Too bad, you are a GW2 Ranger and if you do not do so you are not utilizing the class mechanic YOU chose and therefore can never hope to be a good player of the class. I bet a lot of you have never even slotted the pet command utility skills…seriously just go play Warrior and quit spamming the Ranger boards with your nonsense.

I am also an avid player of Street Fighter, and that is a community that does not tolerate scrubs complaining about how a character isn’t working out for the player. Change characters! If you aren’t making use of the tools available, you had better start figuring it out. Or change characters! As I play more GW2 I notice that the classes are designed a lot closer to fighting game balance than we have traditionally seen in MMOs (or even RPGs as a whole). There are combat fundamentals that are the same across all classes, the sets of boons/conds are simplified and everyone has endurance meter and dodge roll mechanics. Each class has sets of tools to get everything done, but each class has pros/cons as a result of what they need to use to get there. The Ranger gets a lot of utility out of his pet, but not if his technique is to keep the pet on auto attack and send him off by default into any confrontation. If only there was some way of withdrawing the pet from melee range before it dies…oh yeah, F3…or the passive/combat button…or pet swap with F4. If you aren’t making use of F1-F4 as well as your own skills, weapon AND pet swap mechanics in combat…please do yourself a favor and just choose another class already.

I get tired of people saying ‘but in GW1 the Ranger…’
1) This is GW2…did you not notice?
2) The Warrior got a couple of the GW1 Ranger skills on longbow, has no pet and has a simple class mechanic…so you should feel right at home there.

So you are saying we should trait to be ping pong balls? Do you seriously think we dont know what our traits are? So anyone that doest want to waste every possible trait by taking dodge related traits is playing the game wrong. Or is wrong to expect other build to be somewhat useful?

Players like this guy is why so many bugs/glitches continue to plague this class. WTF is a ranger doing with a GS anyway. Makes no sense to have what one would think of as a highly mobile class be using a weapon that plate wearing classes would use. Get rid of the GS completely and make our bows actually put out damage other than 1 skill. In all the MMO’s I have played Anet has the distinction of mucking up an Archer class worse than i have ever seen. GJ on the thief doing more damage with the SB than we do.

About traits, I would say you should be able to spec whatever you want.

When it comes to GS, though, I will argue with you. It is a very useful and fun weapon. The 3 skill alone makes it highly mobile. I like the greatsword much better than the longbow, in fact, it seems more mobile of a weapon to me.

NargofWoV.4267:

Jazenn.7526:

To all of you claiming pets or a certain build isn’t viable, speak for yourself. There are people all over this forum that manage to succeed at the things you claim are impossible to do so with. If you can’t do it, doesn’t mean someone else can’t.

I guess the expectation has to do with your experience playing ranger. If you don’t feel satisfied personally, the ranger must be weak and need an overhaul. If you love the class how it is, it seems to live up to expectation. I guess there is no way to agree on a ground where everyone can say whether the ranger class is in the right place or not.

I’m not sure anyone is claiming the class is unplayable. I have certainly given examples of issues I’ve found being a ranged Ranger, with pet pathing, pet dying, pets not hitting moving targets, pets picking their own targets (happened again last night). However, you yourself have stated you had to find your perfect place with the ranger class, and that was in Melee Combat, where your pet works great. Well, Melee is only 1/2 the class in a game where each class is suppose to be viable in all aspects. Now if you define viable as ok. Then fine. However, if the definition of Viable is having the same ability as say a Warrior at range, at all times, then our class isn’t viable in comparison due to the issue many have stated above.

I still play my ranged ranger. I will still wish it to be as viable in damage as say an Elementalist or a Warrior, but I also understand I’m not balancing the game or seeing the behind the scene results (funny how they’ve changed Honor Medals, I wonder if that has something to do with certain (ranger) classes not getting them as well as other classes?

Melee is only my current build. I have run shorbow/axe ranger for much longer than my current build, and I still had fun and won with that. Ranged is also viable, or at least it was for me. While I did find something that caught my attention and I currently enjoy, it’s not like I can’t do anything else. I agree that A-net had a problem when they say warrior’s can’t do more ranged damage than a ranger. But that’s honestly the only issue I find, and I really could care less, as I still love the shortbow, axe, longbow, whatever and will use it regardless without complaint. It is still an issue though because we don’t have a clear picture of the ranger because of that. Everything else meets my expectation, I love the class.

Akisame.9508:

Jazenn.7526:

Akisame.9508:

Jazenn.7526:

Akisame.9508:

Bob, Ignorance is bliss isn’t it?

Anyways. The best compromise out there, and the best way to fix the problem with PvP, Dungeons, and WvW, is to keep pets to make the animal lover’s happy, but remove their damage and give it back to the player, that way ~40% of our damage is not tied up on a dead or unresponsive or (sitting on a wall staring at the target) AI. The Pet will be a utility, providing knockdown’s, bleeds, buffs, ect. The pet will do the damage of a bleed, so you attack the target, pet charges, does his f2 attack, if it’s a knockdown or blind or something like that, then he only hits the target, if it ever hits the target, for 50-70 damage per hit, which isn’t much when you think about it, since a pet on a ranged ranger only get between 0 to 2 hits in. The ranger receives his full damage and we no longer have to worry about a faulty AI ruining our game experience because it’s making us underpowered unless we run a melee/beast master build.

Dreams are true bliss. Unfortunately for you and similar rangers, this will not happen.

Then that is a true shame. Because of close minded people like you, a ranged ranger will only be sub par until they can figure out how to get the pets to hit a moving target. I don’t see that happening in the near…or far future for that matter. I guess until it is fixed, everyone will be using the cookie cutter build of beastmaster melee, and there will be no diversity in the class like there is in all other classes because of this poor game mechanic.

If the pet is suppose to land an attack every 1.5 seconds (just throwing a number out there), and in the course of a 30 second fight he only lands two hits because the target is running, there is a problem. If you can’t see that, then I don’t know what to say.

Lol because of close-minded people like me? You don’t know me. Haha I have nothing to do with the game except playing it and arguing about it on the forums. Ain’t my fault its not easy enough for you.

Easy? who said anything about wanting it easy? I want to play a RANGED ranger, not a sword/close quarter combat ranger. For that I would have been a warrior. I just want the pet system to either work properly or to give me the damage until they can get the pet’s working properly. But because of close minded idiots like you coming into the forums saying pets are perfect because in your little world of close combat they don’t have as many problems as long distance combat, then it just turns out to look more like a whining then the legitimate problem we are having with pets. If everyone is on the same page saying YES there is a problem with pets not hitting moving targets that effects Ranged ranger’s, then maybe ANet will actually look into the problem and fix it. But the more people that are stuck in their little world of playing a melee ranger argue and say pets are perfect, the changes will never happen. There is more builds to the ranger then your little kittening world man, open your eyes! Any changes they make for the ranged ranger will help you out when you come into contact with runners, can’t you see that?!?!?!?!

Lol you mad bro? Like I said, it ain’t my fault. They aren’t going to listen to me any more than they listen to you haha. I’m not a close minded idiot either, I’m open to the fact that you and similar rangers can’t seem to win with pets. I offer suggestions and state that there are many different builds, and that you don’t have to spec BM to have a useful pet. Don’t put words in my mouth, that’s others saying theres only 2 viable builds and all our utilities and traits suck. I have played ranged condition/crit ranger before and had similar success. Of course I would be happy with a buff, I just don’t think its that crucial and I don’t think the ranger class is broken like some do. If you think that whining the ranger sucks all day on the forums will do anything, well…. Lol I’ll just say I’m not the idiot. Whatever you guys keep saying is impossible or sucks is the same things you find other rangers using and enjoying.

Akisame.9508:

Jazenn.7526:

Akisame.9508:

Bob, Ignorance is bliss isn’t it?

Anyways. The best compromise out there, and the best way to fix the problem with PvP, Dungeons, and WvW, is to keep pets to make the animal lover’s happy, but remove their damage and give it back to the player, that way ~40% of our damage is not tied up on a dead or unresponsive or (sitting on a wall staring at the target) AI. The Pet will be a utility, providing knockdown’s, bleeds, buffs, ect. The pet will do the damage of a bleed, so you attack the target, pet charges, does his f2 attack, if it’s a knockdown or blind or something like that, then he only hits the target, if it ever hits the target, for 50-70 damage per hit, which isn’t much when you think about it, since a pet on a ranged ranger only get between 0 to 2 hits in. The ranger receives his full damage and we no longer have to worry about a faulty AI ruining our game experience because it’s making us underpowered unless we run a melee/beast master build.

Dreams are true bliss. Unfortunately for you and similar rangers, this will not happen.

Then that is a true shame. Because of close minded people like you, a ranged ranger will only be sub par until they can figure out how to get the pets to hit a moving target. I don’t see that happening in the near…or far future for that matter. I guess until it is fixed, everyone will be using the cookie cutter build of beastmaster melee, and there will be no diversity in the class like there is in all other classes because of this poor game mechanic.

If the pet is suppose to land an attack every 1.5 seconds (just throwing a number out there), and in the course of a 30 second fight he only lands two hits because the target is running, there is a problem. If you can’t see that, then I don’t know what to say.

Lol because of close-minded people like me? You don’t know me. Haha I have nothing to do with the game except playing it and arguing about it on the forums. Ain’t my fault its not easy enough for you.

To all of you claiming pets or a certain build isn’t viable, speak for yourself. There are people all over this forum that manage to succeed at the things you claim are impossible to do so with. If you can’t do it, doesn’t mean someone else can’t.

I guess the expectation has to do with your experience playing ranger. If you don’t feel satisfied personally, the ranger must be weak and need an overhaul. If you love the class how it is, it seems to live up to expectation. I guess there is no way to agree on a ground where everyone can say whether the ranger class is in the right place or not.

Akisame.9508:

Jazenn.7526:

Every class can be dps/tank/balance, but not every class can do everything equally well. For instance, a thief cannot become a bunker in the same way that a guardian can. He can tank, but he has to use evasion and stealth because he still cant take a 100b and survive. A warrior can be dps with power/crit, but he can’t mass distribute bleed, poison, chill, or fear like the necro can. A necro can tank just by having a crapload of health, but they can’t evade the same way a ranger can in order to tank. A ranger however can do all of these things well enough to be effective. You don’t see evasion necro, condition warrior, armor tank thief they way that you see rangers doing all of that, the opposite, and more. In that way I see us as a jack of all trades.

Ok, then YOU see it as a jack of all trades. And I can understand your point of view in that perspective, but saying that the ranger class is “SUPPOSE to be a jack of all trades and a master of none” is incorrect! That was NOT the intended purpose of the class according to ANet. So those people spouting that crap should stop.

Well it very well may be the intended purpose, that’s what I interpreted from the statement on Dec. 14th. What did you get out of the statement? The only thing I would say that A-net says that goes against this is when they said warrior can’t do more ranged damage than the ranger, but then again I haven’t tested that myself.

Peter.9406:

wauwi.9162:

some pets are useless…they’re merely weaker copys of other one’s.

signets do have insane cooldowns…
a point too for you about the longbow, but keep in mind the range advantage.
i’d rather have slightly increased attackspeed for longbow’s skill #1.
spirits are ok.

besides that, it’s a really nice profession which keeps it’s promise: “jack-of-all-trades”

as much as i’d appreciate more variety in making a build, it would kinda miss the point of the profession, since the ranger is not intended to “specialize” in one particular thing.
oh well scrap that last sentence…

Shortbow and Longbow have the same range when untraited, but shortbow deals more damage I think they should at least be equal in damage.

Spirits are not ok at all.

We can be “jack-of-all-trades” and still be able to have viable skills, just because we can do everything doesn’t mean we deserve crappy skills.

I couldn’t disagree with OP more lol. I will admit spirits need buffs, but not overhaul. Just survivability buff or a proc buff (for frost and sun especially).

Bob.8456:

I really think 3 things could make a world of difference for Rangers (but they are in no way a compromise as they are still very much pro-pet changes).

1) Stowed pets will not come out until unstowed, but with NO dmg increase for stowing! If people are allowed to stow for more DPS then we are going to have an awful lot of self-nerfed Rangers running around doing only slightly more DPS and contributing next to nothing to the party. Keep the recharge on stow the same as pet swap so you cannot abuse the stow as an emergency out for your pet without managing your cooldown. Stow in this way is mainly to keep your pet from aggroing mobs in PvE and to keep your foes from singling you out in WvW (funny how the armor was supposed to keep foes from knowing for sure at a distance what class you are and yet we cannot keep our pets stowed so we are the only class with the unfortunate downside of not being able to obscure our class on the battlefield).

2) ‘Dodge as one’ as a feature of the class…I would also take this as a trait if I had to, but this alone will increase survivability of pets with the added downside of having to protect two characters on a shared dodge meter. For example, you are safely attacking from LB range and you use up your dodge to keep your pet alive, but then are flanked and now unable to dodge yourself. End result: Pets can now dodge and yet play balance is maintained.

3) My own personal beef with the implementation of Ranger pets is the pet command utilities…I really think that ‘guard’ at least needs to be standard on our UI. We already have more pet commands than F1-F4 so I would like to see guard added to this. Having to use a utility slot for this functionality reminds me too much of having to slot charm animal in GW1…a waste of slots for what should really be free. I would maybe add it to the Aggressive/Passive button so that it would be cycle Aggressive/Passive/Guard. The ally revive pet command should stay as a utility, and maybe they can replace guard with another skill to give the pet yet another function (my vote would be for something like a decoy, where your pet can take on your appearance and you can get a few seconds of stealth…the Ranger needs better stealth options and I feel for balance it should be tied to pets).

I actually like these suggestions. Except I want my pet to come out when I am attacked so I don’t get bursted in the first second while I reached to unstow my pet. Maybe that could be an option as well? Not a hotkey but an option like the passive/aggresive. The dodge as one is genius though, that would be a good trait.

I think that is a really well balance build. Great power stat only to be increased with buffs and decent crit rate combined with a lot of dodging and the defense of the greatsword. I have a few recommendations.

1) The Krytan hounds immobilize is excellent for melee builds. However, the jungle spider has 2 immobilize skills, so it can either be a good replacement or supplement. Also it’s ranged attacks will stay hitting your target and keep the damage on if you are missing in melee. Other pet options are the red moa for a fury boost, or the brown bear for some condition removal.

2)I would change the trait nature’s bounty to nature’s protection. Since you don’t have regen, the protection would be much more useful. It will protect you from an opponent’s initial burst, and if you last long enough, even more.

3) Being a melee build is a different challenge in catching a moving opponent. This tip is merely a suggestion, purely your choice, but consider running entangle as elite or muddy terrain as your utility instead of lightning reflexes. You lose a stun breaker but if you change your survival trait you can still get a bit of vigor. The immobilize will help you a lot in getting some hits in. If not, make sure you are using leaps and cripple of the sword to catch your opponents, put a sigil of superior hydromancy on the sword because I don’t think two crit proc sigils can work together.

Akisame.9508:

Bob, Ignorance is bliss isn’t it?

Anyways. The best compromise out there, and the best way to fix the problem with PvP, Dungeons, and WvW, is to keep pets to make the animal lover’s happy, but remove their damage and give it back to the player, that way ~40% of our damage is not tied up on a dead or unresponsive or (sitting on a wall staring at the target) AI. The Pet will be a utility, providing knockdown’s, bleeds, buffs, ect. The pet will do the damage of a bleed, so you attack the target, pet charges, does his f2 attack, if it’s a knockdown or blind or something like that, then he only hits the target, if it ever hits the target, for 50-70 damage per hit, which isn’t much when you think about it, since a pet on a ranged ranger only get between 0 to 2 hits in. The ranger receives his full damage and we no longer have to worry about a faulty AI ruining our game experience because it’s making us underpowered unless we run a melee/beast master build.

Dreams are true bliss. Unfortunately for you and similar rangers, this will not happen.

Akisame.9508:

For all of those saying that a ranger is suppose to be the jack of all trades…I’ll just tell you politely, please clean your mouth…cause your talking kitten! This game was not made to have a tank class, to have a healer class, to have a support class. This game was made with the idea that ANY class can do ANY job the player wants. Which is why you can see a cloth wearing mesmer with a two handed sword. Any class can be a DPS player. Any class can be a ranged player. Any Class can be a healer. The ranger’s are not suppose to be singled out on this philosophy from ANet. I’ve been looking throughout the forum for the post I read from a dev stating this fact. This is the reason why, for instance, close minded jazenn’s tank build works good for him and his pet, because he is close range, holding his enemy at bay to give his pet a chance to attack. Meanwhile, us ranged playing ranger’s have trouble because the pets spend more time running around chasing the player that is chasing us then actually doing any damage because our target won’t stop for one second for the pet to hit…which is why we lose ~40% of our damage.

Although I did not find the post of the dev stating that there is no such thing as the jack of all trades, because everyone can tank, heal, etc. I did find a video that mentions this, you can start the video at the half way mark and listen to it from there.

<iframe width=“560” height=“315” src=“https://www.youtube.com/embed/aDyKPXjA9eU” frameborder=“0” allowfullscreen></iframe>

hmmm, sorry, I guess the code doesn’t work but you can click on the link and see the video there.

Every class can be dps/tank/balance, but not every class can do everything equally well. For instance, a thief cannot become a bunker in the same way that a guardian can. He can tank, but he has to use evasion and stealth because he still cant take a 100b and survive. A warrior can be dps with power/crit, but he can’t mass distribute bleed, poison, chill, or fear like the necro can. A necro can tank just by having a crapload of health, but they can’t evade the same way a ranger can in order to tank. A ranger however can do all of these things well enough to be effective. You don’t see evasion necro, condition warrior, armor tank thief they way that you see rangers doing all of that, the opposite, and more. In that way I see us as a jack of all trades.

Agadar.4931:

Bast Bow.2958:

I run them for months now. Since my main build hasn’t got any points in BM I like devourers most in WvW. They’re tough, keep themselves alive well enough and provide decent (condition)damage.

You wouldn’t like devourers if you were BM? How so?

I think he means they can survive well enough that he doesn’t feel the need to spec BM when using them.

Jyenh.5739:

I have to say I agree to an extent, I think the ranger’s should have gotten a different profession mechanic, the pets deal quite a bit of damage, but i don’t play ranger for the pet, and thus I don’t utilise my pet- simply because it’s a waste as it dies in almost any battle and I hardly even look at it in fights. I really think the mechanic is underpowered in most scenarios, it is really only good with fighting vets and champs up to level 60 from my experience, then all of a sudden they seemingly become useless even as decoys.

runeblade.7514:

A ranger without a pet is an underpowered warrior or thief.

Isn’t that the problem? That they are too reliant on their pets, even when most ranger player’s aren’t beast masters or even utilise their pets to any real extent?

The ranger profession is the only profession that has a mechanic that fits into a single play style (beast masters) and also becomes quite pathetic when fighting a boss or a group.
To utilise its mechanic you either let it be some extra damage and a decoy for weak enemies, or invest in it and solely base your char around your pet and even then it has a hard time standing against stronger foes, and thus so do you.

I think, apart from changing the mechanic, the way to fix this is to give the ranger a few more viable utilities, give them some old fashioned pet attacks like they had in GW1, give utilities that give them more buffs, atm their utility skills seem to be based around positioning and mediocre assist. This would allow beast master build to be more viable for a char, but for those who dont like utilising the ranger pet, skills similar to a warriors physical utilities or other such attack-power skills would need to be introduced. Rangers by themselves are already fine with defence, and pets are too.

As for support, i feel that rangers have just lost the ability to utilise spirits effectively.

Also, those who say ‘if you don’t like a pet, dont play ranger, there are other classes that use bows’ and such, don’t be ridiculous, as i stated, and as many people i know do to, we dont play ranger for the pet or weapons, but for the feel of the class, their movement, how they attack. Thief bows feel clunky, and warriors feel slow, ranger’s have a fine-tuned finesse about them that is appealing to many players.

As much as you complain about pets they are not going to go away. The best thing would be to learn how to optimize them, or if they make you hate playing ranger, re-roll warrior. If the skills make you stay, then I suggest using the pet to make you better as a ranger.

Arsenic Touch.7960:

Jazenn.7526:

“used to be”

Not anymore. This has been stated by a dev as intentional and integral.

“We’ve balanced the class around the idea that you always have a pet with you to aid in any fight.” -Jonathan Sharp in Dec. 14th patch notes.

I don’t think it will change. Fun to speculate though.

That quote always amuses me. If it was actually the case, pets would have better AI and not require insane micro-managing and waste of talent points just to keep them alive for a few seconds longer.it would take a basic understanding of the class and control of the pet just to be able to work as a team with the pet.

Jyenh.5739:

Jazenn.7526:

loopi.7913:

About pets. some people like them other rangers want that damage for themselves instead of having to micromanage an npc. Why can’t the player have the choice of what they would like to play through trait lines? I don’t think it would be such a big deal to give them the option of playing a ranger how you see fit as a player. (ex. a staff ele and I are in a tower trying to kill rams outside) they start using their skills. If I want full 100% of my characters dps i need to put guard on my toolbar send the pet down, then attack with my own skills. But the aoe is harsh so i have to pull them back, then send them back. Meanwhile ele is using 100% dps power np. ) Whats wrong with having the option to stow pets for buffs to self?

Because then you essentially become a warrior, not a ranger. If you want that, re-roll to warrior and you can have it.

No you dont, the professions feel completely different, with or without a pet, the skills are different, the animation is different and play style is different.

---

I constantly get good results in SPvP when i do it with my ranger, I can solo cap camps in WvW, albeit as long as I don’t need to take on a PC during it, and I excel in PvE. I have an attachments to my pets, though i dont utilise them and i always have the same 2, i use dual axes and a bow (either) which sometimes gets swapped for a greatsword.

All in all, i don’t play the class for a pet, i dont play it because they deal the most damage, offer the most support or can absorb the most damage, i play them because of how they feel, to me, rangers feel like the best class, with the agile movement and finesse they wield in combat.

Except you are neglecting the pet, the most important mechanic of the class. If you choose not to optimize the class, that is your choice. You may still have success, but that just means you are a really good player I guess. With the buff you become essentially a warrior. You just have different skills. Still lol.

I agree, it is the choice of A-net. So why go against it?

skytohigh.7531:

Jazenn.7526:

skytohigh.7531:

Suggestion
A simple way for Arenanet to add some semblance of damage mitigation for pets outside of a few seconds of protection or Signet of Stone is to make it so the pet gains a simple 5s or 6s sec buff that makes it evade attacks for the duration when the owner dodge rolls. If they feel that it is too strong then they can make it one or two attacks.

Pets
My main issue with pets is they are far too fragile for the potential they bring and the impact of having a pet on the Ranger play-style. I run 30 BM and have always ran 30 BM and it even then it takes a extreme amount of micromanagement (which is something that Arenanet said they felt that ranger’s should not have to do) to keep my pet and myself alive through quite a few bosses attacks. Some Ranger’s may not like the pet which is their own prerogative and if they want to permanently stow it then they should be able to. I personally enjoy my pets and would just simply like to see them more survivable.

Its not as though we are asking a lot we are simply asking for some quality of life improvements. Little things such as improvements to the pet UI so that we don’t have to take wild guesses or spend the time calculating stats for our pets or saving pet names so that every time I want to use a new pet I don’t have to rename it. Those few things would go a long way in my opinion to making us feel a little less unloved.

Masters Bond
I won’t really speak on any of the traits outside of the BM tree as I do not use Marks or Skirmishing too often. As it was posted before Masters Bond has become a source of much annoyance to me. It has the potential to be a great trait, but in its current form its just worthless for anything outside of running through the world. It should simply be a static number even if it is slightly lowered from the potential amount it can give at 25 stacks. I can’t really being to count the time I’ve spent the time grinding 25 stacks only to have to switch pets out for varied reasons. Then of course there are bosses who see your 25 stacks and laugh at you for being a silly Human, Charr, Norn, Asura or Sylvari and coming in their instance with your 25 stacks.

In the end I just would really like to see a few more improvements to the Beastmaster play-style that I enjoy and also to the Ranger class as a whole. I would also like to hear from whoever is in charge of the design of the class that they hear our plight and care.

I can see giving pets more defense in dodging ability or something like that, but perma-stow pet would make a ranger not a ranger. This is how the class is designed to be, the most integral and basic aspect of it won’t be just erased because the player feels like being a warrior with ranger skills.

*Ranger (character class)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (October 2007)
A Ranger (also known as Hunter, Scout or Tracker) is an archetype found in many fantasy fiction and role-playing games.
Rangers are usually associated with the wisdom of nature. Rangers tend to be wise, cunning, and perceptive in addition to being skilled woodsmen. Many are skilled in stealth, wilderness survival, beast-mastery, herbalism, and tracking. Archery and (often dual-wielding) swordplay are common to rangers, though there are many instances where rangers use a variety of weapons, skills, and sometimes magic or have a resistance to magic.*

I’ll not sit and argue semantics with you but the name “Ranger” has more meaning then having a pet. Being able to permanently stow your pet would in no way subtract from the meaning of the word “Ranger”. It is simply a matter of freedom to play as the player see’s fit.

Regardless of other definitions you find, A-net has its own definition. This is GW2, not anything else. Read the class philosophy for the ranger class from a-net itself.

They definitely hit the target more, and I like their f2 skills. With their defense they seem like a sturdy, reliable, sustaining pet. The damage seems less than the melee pets though. I use a devourer on my condition/crit build.

Agadar.4931:

Jazenn.7526:

Peter.9406:

Ranger is meant to be jack of all trades, master of none. However, in its current state most skills are just useless so we can’t use our “trades” so Ranger is not fulfilling its role. If we are meant to be jack of all trades we should be able to build more than two viable builds, signets and traps.

There are more builds than signets and traps. There are BM, Power/crit GC, axe power, condition damage, stun, spirits, etc. I have seen all used before, they are all viable.

If they were viable, I’d run into them more often.

The ones I did run into died all too easily.

Mine didn’t(except for GC), and I didn’t even spend a lot of time on them. They were harder because I was not used to them, but I was still able to hold my own. I just prefer my current build that much more.

skytohigh.7531:

Suggestion
A simple way for Arenanet to add some semblance of damage mitigation for pets outside of a few seconds of protection or Signet of Stone is to make it so the pet gains a simple 5s or 6s sec buff that makes it evade attacks for the duration when the owner dodge rolls. If they feel that it is too strong then they can make it one or two attacks.

Pets
My main issue with pets is they are far too fragile for the potential they bring and the impact of having a pet on the Ranger play-style. I run 30 BM and have always ran 30 BM and it even then it takes a extreme amount of micromanagement (which is something that Arenanet said they felt that ranger’s should not have to do) to keep my pet and myself alive through quite a few bosses attacks. Some Ranger’s may not like the pet which is their own prerogative and if they want to permanently stow it then they should be able to. I personally enjoy my pets and would just simply like to see them more survivable.

Its not as though we are asking a lot we are simply asking for some quality of life improvements. Little things such as improvements to the pet UI so that we don’t have to take wild guesses or spend the time calculating stats for our pets or saving pet names so that every time I want to use a new pet I don’t have to rename it. Those few things would go a long way in my opinion to making us feel a little less unloved.

Masters Bond
I won’t really speak on any of the traits outside of the BM tree as I do not use Marks or Skirmishing too often. As it was posted before Masters Bond has become a source of much annoyance to me. It has the potential to be a great trait, but in its current form its just worthless for anything outside of running through the world. It should simply be a static number even if it is slightly lowered from the potential amount it can give at 25 stacks. I can’t really being to count the time I’ve spent the time grinding 25 stacks only to have to switch pets out for varied reasons. Then of course there are bosses who see your 25 stacks and laugh at you for being a silly Human, Charr, Norn, Asura or Sylvari and coming in their instance with your 25 stacks.

In the end I just would really like to see a few more improvements to the Beastmaster play-style that I enjoy and also to the Ranger class as a whole. I would also like to hear from whoever is in charge of the design of the class that they hear our plight and care.

I can see giving pets more defense in dodging ability or something like that, but perma-stow pet would make a ranger not a ranger. This is how the class is designed to be, the most integral and basic aspect of it won’t be just erased because the player feels like being a warrior with ranger skills.

Enundr.9305:

Jazenn.7526:

Enundr.9305:

Jazenn.7526:

wolfyrik.2017:

This “argument” made by those defeinding pets, that people should trait and specc for the pets or they should change classes, is hilarious. I really can’t believe that you’re trying to claim that Rangers being forced to specc for pet survival is understandable and anyone who doesn’t is just bad.

It doesn’t strike any of you as wrong, that the ranger is the only class which is forced to specc a certain way? To play in one specific style? No of course not, you just happen to enjoy the one enforced style of play, so you don’t care how it works for other people. Your answer:
“I’m fine, if you’re not play something else”.

Of course, what you don’t see is the long term damage that this incredibly narrow-sighted view does. People like the Ranger class, they should have the same opportunities with that class as others do with theirs. I don’t mean playing in the same style or in similar mechanics. I mean having the choice of how they want to develop the class and make it fit them. Ranger is by far the most limited in this manner. It’s the only class that is forced to incorporate their build into the class mechanic, instead of building the mechanic into their build.

Where’s the fun in having no choice but playing second fiddle to what is essentially an NPC?
GW2 Rangers aren’t Beast-Masters, they’re Beast-Servants.

I just don’t agree they are forced to spec in order to succeed. I do agree that you should always include the mechanic into your build. It definitely doesn’t force you to spec for it though. Just look at the number of GC rangers.

yet ive seen my pets hit WAY harder then anything i throw out (besides condition stacking). Beastmaster is forced on us no matter how you try to argue about it , its our strongest and yet most annoying spec that is forced because we cant choose to forgo the pet to be more focused on another build. And i wouldnt mind this if the pet wasnt just a waste of time since it gets almost 1 shotted by anything in a dungeon and ends up with the 60 second pet swap vs the 16 or so seconds pet swap if its not dead.

I don’t believe that you are forced into BM to succeed. And you don’t need to spec BM for your pet to hit high.

if your pet is your strongest aspect would that not make you a beastmaster? =P

I run a BM build. What I am saying is that I am not forced to in order to succeed. Until I got that armor set, I had been running condition/crit ranger, and had just as much success. I had 5 skill points in BM simply for quickness.

Peter.9406:

Ranger is meant to be jack of all trades, master of none. However, in its current state most skills are just useless so we can’t use our “trades” so Ranger is not fulfilling its role. If we are meant to be jack of all trades we should be able to build more than two viable builds, signets and traps.

There are more builds than signets and traps. There are BM, Power/crit GC, axe power, condition damage, stun, spirits, etc. I have seen all used before, they are all viable.

loopi.7913:

About pets. some people like them other rangers want that damage for themselves instead of having to micromanage an npc. Why can’t the player have the choice of what they would like to play through trait lines? I don’t think it would be such a big deal to give them the option of playing a ranger how you see fit as a player. (ex. a staff ele and I are in a tower trying to kill rams outside) they start using their skills. If I want full 100% of my characters dps i need to put guard on my toolbar send the pet down, then attack with my own skills. But the aoe is harsh so i have to pull them back, then send them back. Meanwhile ele is using 100% dps power np. ) Whats wrong with having the option to stow pets for buffs to self?

Because then you essentially become a warrior, not a ranger. If you want that, re-roll to warrior and you can have it.

Enundr.9305:

Jazenn.7526:

wolfyrik.2017:

This “argument” made by those defeinding pets, that people should trait and specc for the pets or they should change classes, is hilarious. I really can’t believe that you’re trying to claim that Rangers being forced to specc for pet survival is understandable and anyone who doesn’t is just bad.

It doesn’t strike any of you as wrong, that the ranger is the only class which is forced to specc a certain way? To play in one specific style? No of course not, you just happen to enjoy the one enforced style of play, so you don’t care how it works for other people. Your answer:
“I’m fine, if you’re not play something else”.

Of course, what you don’t see is the long term damage that this incredibly narrow-sighted view does. People like the Ranger class, they should have the same opportunities with that class as others do with theirs. I don’t mean playing in the same style or in similar mechanics. I mean having the choice of how they want to develop the class and make it fit them. Ranger is by far the most limited in this manner. It’s the only class that is forced to incorporate their build into the class mechanic, instead of building the mechanic into their build.

Where’s the fun in having no choice but playing second fiddle to what is essentially an NPC?
GW2 Rangers aren’t Beast-Masters, they’re Beast-Servants.

I just don’t agree they are forced to spec in order to succeed. I do agree that you should always include the mechanic into your build. It definitely doesn’t force you to spec for it though. Just look at the number of GC rangers.

yet ive seen my pets hit WAY harder then anything i throw out (besides condition stacking). Beastmaster is forced on us no matter how you try to argue about it , its our strongest and yet most annoying spec that is forced because we cant choose to forgo the pet to be more focused on another build. And i wouldnt mind this if the pet wasnt just a waste of time since it gets almost 1 shotted by anything in a dungeon and ends up with the 60 second pet swap vs the 16 or so seconds pet swap if its not dead.

I don’t believe that you are forced into BM to succeed. And you don’t need to spec BM for your pet to hit high.

neverborne.4736:

Well Janz, I’m glad you’re so happy with the class the way it is, and thank you for the extensive list of ranger traits and skills. I’m well aware of them all and don’t use most of those because they are terribly bad. Dead pets provide no cc nor dps which is what we were talking about in the first place. The limited WvW experience you have had sounds likes it has been mostly solo roaming, where your pet will obviously have more survivability. But consider the fact that some rangers want to be part of larger and meaningful battles and aren’t bad players (as you suggested) because their pets explode instantly in WvW AOE spam.

I participate in large scales battles at times, I just don’t like it as much because of culling. The last big battle I was a part of was a couple days ago in Crystal Desert was a 3-5 hour siege of the garrison there. Me and my guildies regularly lead the charge when flanking a zerg, I often charged in front and popped entangle and grabbed their target. Then me and my pet stomp as many as we can before they figure out what has happened. I avoid/counter AOE and when it kills my pet I switch and try again. My pet stays alive much more than it spends limping around following me. If you don’t like the ranger skills, that is your problem. I use them regardless and think they are great. Spirits are eh in my opinion but I can use them when I want. Shouts are really the only skills I don’t use, and apparently since their buff some people still use them on the skillbar. My experience in WvW, though I don’t get as many kills as you, has taught me just as much, and how to make the skills work for me. One thing a ranger excels at is roaming because then you can avoid AOE spam. If you like zerg combat then your playstyle changes, but my pet manages to stay alive regardless lol. Apparently 13k kills makes you a master expert at the class, but you can’t even find a way to make the class mechanic useful. If I can have success roaming, able to beat any class in solo or party encounters, that teaches me more than spamming AOE on a part of the map where only half the players are loaded, tagging as many kills as possible. I love the big battles too though, they can be epic and fun, but don’t look down on roaming, I have capped/defended keeps with groups less than ten.

When I play ranger in WvW, I feel like the class matches the description. I can spec to do anything I want, and my pet feels like a partner.

wolfyrik.2017:

This “argument” made by those defeinding pets, that people should trait and specc for the pets or they should change classes, is hilarious. I really can’t believe that you’re trying to claim that Rangers being forced to specc for pet survival is understandable and anyone who doesn’t is just bad.

It doesn’t strike any of you as wrong, that the ranger is the only class which is forced to specc a certain way? To play in one specific style? No of course not, you just happen to enjoy the one enforced style of play, so you don’t care how it works for other people. Your answer:
“I’m fine, if you’re not play something else”.

Of course, what you don’t see is the long term damage that this incredibly narrow-sighted view does. People like the Ranger class, they should have the same opportunities with that class as others do with theirs. I don’t mean playing in the same style or in similar mechanics. I mean having the choice of how they want to develop the class and make it fit them. Ranger is by far the most limited in this manner. It’s the only class that is forced to incorporate their build into the class mechanic, instead of building the mechanic into their build.

Where’s the fun in having no choice but playing second fiddle to what is essentially an NPC?
GW2 Rangers aren’t Beast-Masters, they’re Beast-Servants.

I just don’t agree they are forced to spec in order to succeed. I do agree that you should always include the mechanic into your build. It definitely doesn’t force you to spec for it though. Just look at the number of GC rangers.

neverborne.4736:

Jazenn.7526:

@people bashing pets:

I couldn’t disagree more. My pet is invaluable to me in WvW and he does more damage than I do, I need to use it in order to down people. It hits whoever I target and obeys my command fine. For some reason you can’t control your pet and blame it on bad AI lol. And about siege, its a completely different style of combat. I run a full melee build so I have an 100% decrease in damage against walls. So does any melee build, so your pet not being able to attack is not unfair because they are melee and it makes sense. I instead focus on other things like building/manning/supporting siege weapons, or preventing people from entering or leaving. When there is no wall, my pet goes to work. Lol maybe I’m better at ranger than I thought, I think I’m pretty average. My experience with pets fills the expectation that A-net put out. I treat it as a partner in combat and my strategy is based around that. I find success and fun with it. I haven’t seen many rangers running around raging on how the pet makes them suck(outside of these forums of course). They do the same as me.

@neverbourne I’m gonna have to disagree with you on all parts that the class is broken, but I will say that the class may be meant to be a jack of all trades, meaning he isn’t best in one thing, but can potentially do anything. Saying thieves are better at burst and evasion is unnecessary as that has already been established. What they lack is defense and sustained damage. Nowhere does it say that we are their counterpart or that we should have more damage than them. Re-read the class philosophies on the link.

Just out of curiosity, how many WvW kills do you have? I’m not trying to flame you man, but I really don’t find it likely that you’re truly a dedicated WvW’er with what I hear you saying. I’ve got 13k kills, and my pet rarely contributes to them. Pets are going to die in the first few seconds of any sort of decent wvw fight. They might get a couple hits in if you’re lucky and your target decides to stay fairly still. They are simply not a reliable tool.

When you say “jack of all trades” what trades would those be exactly? We get no useful group utility (i.e. portal, group invis, shadow refuge). We’re not damage sponges like heavy armor classes or necros. Face it, we’re a straight up DPS class with low DPS. Saying we have “sustained DPS” as if it’s a good thing is silly. Thieves have better burst (far superior in wvw which is about downing people) AND better overall “sustained” dps. What defensive abilities do we have? Lightning reflexes and a master-traited signet invulnerability with a ridiculous cool down? AOE. We’ve got one. No blast finishers. No reflection. We’re not jack of all trades bro. We’ve got one trade. Single target DPS. And we are fairly bad at it.

I definitely don’t have more than you, I have somewhere between 1000 and 2000, but I don’t WvW primarily, I do about an equal amount of each. My pet contributes to each of the kills I get now, I primarily roam, sometimes with guildies sometimes alone. I don’t like to WvW recently since my server got crowded, but I still do it now and then.

We have excellent group utility in entangle and nature spirit. Utility wise (for group support) there is muddy terrain/spirits/healing spring/pet rez/aoe buffs) etc. There is a popular bunker build that can go toe to toe with Guardian bunker, necro, or d/d ele, and can sponge quite a bit of damage. We have sustained DPS whether you think it is good or bad, I think its good. Thieves have better burst but I don’t think they have better sustained DPS. Defensively, we have a lot of CC from pets, cripple, daze, immobilize from weapons and utilities, the ones you mentioned plus vigor and evasion from from weapons, bark skin, empathic bond, natures protection/regeneration, etc, not to mention intense and at times perma regen. AOE from pets, cleave damage on weapons, traps, barrage, pierce arrows, bouncing on the axe, torch 5, axe 5. Sooo many projectile finishers, leap on each sword, a whirling, and a pet with a blast(which gives aoe benefits). Block on greatsword and reflection on axe 5. We have multiple target DPS as every single one of our weapons can hit multiple targets on autoattack (bows on pierce).

All of that just shows me despite your 13k kills in WvW, you still don’t know the the class that well. We can do a lot. Thus, we are a jack of all trades.

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

My tired mind would like to give it’s two cents based upon my experiences as a longbow/sword+horn ranger that tries to use whatever pets fits it’s liking rather than class demands.

Ranger melee- Weak, needs improvement. I feel like more streamlining could be done with sword, but besides that it’s just a cowbell thing for me.

Ranger axe- Underachieving warrior. Needs improvement.

Ranger longbow- Too slow, too inefficient, still seeing ‘OBSTRUCTED’ every few shots, needs the stupid range mechanic for ‘1’ removed entirely.

Ranger shortbow- The best thing about ranger, doing an acceptable amount of damage when you want it to.

Ranger pets- Stupid, clunky, slow, weak and fragile. They aren’t even strong enough to cope with their stupidity most of the time if not all of the time. I’ve used every member of the porcine family, pigs, bears, dogs, wolves, cats, birds… It’s all the same. I’ve yet to see a single issue on pets adequately addressed and fixed since day one. Since there is no way to get rid of them and apply their half of the damage to the ranger they are trying(and failing miserably) to support, we’re stuck doing half of the damage with no alternative.

In short…

Anything we can do, someone else can and will do better. We were promised a profession that could take care of itself and compete with other professions in every field, trying to call Ranger a jack of all trades is just excusing the butchery of Ranger’s potential(imho). We were deceived.

The thing is, we weren’t deceived. Read the statement. He never said we were the best at one thing but are able to do many things. This is not deception, he is putting it out there for clarification. To me it just seems like you briefly tried all of those things and you couldn’t seem to win, except for when using shortbow. Each of those weapons are viable, I’ve seen each weapon used and there is no real favorite(besides shortbow being most common).

NargofWoV.4267:

Jazenn.7526:

@people bashing pets:

I couldn’t disagree more. My pet is invaluable to me in WvW and he does more damage than I do, I need to use it in order to down people. It hits whoever I target and obeys my command fine. For some reason you can’t control your pet and blame it on bad AI lol.

Actually for your situation, being melee, your pet is with you right next to you fighting. Makes sense it doesn’t seem broken. However to anyone who plays a ranger at range, the mechanic is broken, mainly due to the fact the pet is chasing my target to my max range, then if someone is behind me, it has to run accross two full ranges to re ingage a target (potentially). That is a problem. You in melee range just need to turn around and the pet too.

This spells zero pet damage and pretty useless in my book. Personally, If I wanted melee when I made my toon, I would have picked Warrior or Guardian or Theif. So I’m glad you made the class “work” for you. To me it isn’t. Pet mechanics are poorly developed for the ranged Ranger because pets do so much of our damage, pet AI issues, Pet Pathing, Pet ignoring your re choice of targets (lagging), all these things aren’t at the optimal performance level for all the ranged Ranger skills.

Well first, melee and range is an option for any class. Ranger has the ability to do both well. If you came in thinking ranger shouldn’t be melee, then you came in with a misconception of the class.

Now, if you are suggesting a ranged ranger has a bigger problem with pets than a melee ranger, I can try to answer that.

The ranged ranger finds and reaches a target easily. We have the best range distance in the game, and many utilize this. Targeting and combat begins quickly, and the ranger immediately starts putting out damage and maintains that damage only as long as they are facing the direction of the target, which is very easy. A melee ranger is different in that they have to first catch the target, and then output damage while the target is moving, maintaining hits when in some cases the enemy attempts to distance itself. This creates a challenge in chasing, whereas for ranged attack it is much easier. I think the same applies to pets. The ranged pets will attack as soon as they reach the max distance from the enemy. With melee pets, they have to chase, similarly to the melee ranger. When you have a ranged ranger and a melee pet, as a result the pet will be have a longer distance to cover when the ranger finds a new target. All this seems to be what you are suggesting. The question is, is this the fault of the pet or the ranger? If you are playing monkey with your targets, the melee pet will hit less because it spends more time running. Possible solution? If you are ranged, using a ranged pet or changing your playstyle in a way that allows your pet to catch up and do damage. Just as a warrior will try to stun you to pull off 100b, you have to give your pet an opportunity to reach the new target and hit it. Does this make any sense?

On another note, I have never experience my pet lagging or ignoring my commands. I wouldn’t know what you are experiencing because of that because my pet doesn’t fail to respond.

Lucky Charmz.5089:

I would like to see it that the ranger have the option of having a pet or no pet. Maybe make it a single utility skill called, “Pet: you gain the ability to tame two pets and keep them…blah blah blah exactly what they are now, but maybe a bit stronger to balance out using a utility skill.”

This would make it so people who want to play a nature-based class COULD. Well at least it would be a step in the right direction. We still need something like a staff.

It would be cool, yea. But in GW2 ranger = pet. Its integral and unfortunately for some it won’t change.

Fjandi.2516:

Serraphin Storm.2369:

stuff

Lol i love theorycrafters. Sadly the “real” game doesn’t work that way. Pets are good/ok in small scale fights. That’s all. Are you one of those “i’m a ranger, lvl 20 atm, the pet is awesome!!!111” guys?

He wasn’t theory crafting he was giving legitimate advice. So was DaisyRodgers. Just accept their advice and try it out instead of rejecting without reason.

@people bashing pets:

I couldn’t disagree more. My pet is invaluable to me in WvW and he does more damage than I do, I need to use it in order to down people. It hits whoever I target and obeys my command fine. For some reason you can’t control your pet and blame it on bad AI lol. And about siege, its a completely different style of combat. I run a full melee build so I have an 100% decrease in damage against walls. So does any melee build, so your pet not being able to attack is not unfair because they are melee and it makes sense. I instead focus on other things like building/manning/supporting siege weapons, or preventing people from entering or leaving. When there is no wall, my pet goes to work. Lol maybe I’m better at ranger than I thought, I think I’m pretty average. My experience with pets fills the expectation that A-net put out. I treat it as a partner in combat and my strategy is based around that. I find success and fun with it. I haven’t seen many rangers running around raging on how the pet makes them suck(outside of these forums of course). They do the same as me.

@neverbourne I’m gonna have to disagree with you on all parts that the class is broken, but I will say that the class may be meant to be a jack of all trades, meaning he isn’t best in one thing, but can potentially do anything. Saying thieves are better at burst and evasion is unnecessary as that has already been established. What they lack is defense and sustained damage. Nowhere does it say that we are their counterpart or that we should have more damage than them. Re-read the class philosophies on the link.

Nurse.1085:

Jazenn.7526:

When it comes to spirits, they are fragile, yes very. The answer? Keep them alive or use their abilities. Its a challenge and some rangers can do it. Some can’t.

I’m trying to wrap my head around that statement. I can’t even recall the last time I saw a successful, confident Spirit Ranger roaming around, especially in Dungeons. Or maybe I have but his Spirits were off somewhere being dead.

The problem with the logic “it’s just because you need to learn to play” is that it doesn’t really apply here. Being an experienced and excellent Gamer does slightly help with their survival in sticky situations, which usually consists of calling your pet back, keeping it on passive, swapping and praying to the AOE Gods every 20 seconds, playing babysitter, etc. However there is a very noticeable, blatant, in-your-face flaw with Spirits and Pets, regardless of the player’s skill.

The current Pet/Spirit mechanics just don’t mesh well with the rest of the game’s Dungeon/Fractal/WvW combat. The challenge is not because it has an intentionally High Skill Cap gameplay, the challenge is because it is flawed. We’re using all the duct tape we can to get through it but something needs to be done on Anets end without a doubt.

Yea, minions are harder to keep alive in fractal/dungeon for any class, and not just minions or rangers, but many dungeons or WvW require you to play a bit differently. I still won’t agree with you though, because it isn’t impossible. Just harder. I can agree that spirit ranger is not common. Maybe the common ranger has been turned off of it by the hate it receives online. I’m not a master ranger, but I can still run a spirit build when I want to.

EDIT: And I don’t think they are as flawed as you do. Point blank.

Like I said, it being too annoying isn’t a real gripe about the class. I don’t believe it is impossible to succeed with pets. It is just either too hard or too “annoying” for some people. You have to play two characters at once, managing both. That is the way the class is meant to be. Not anyone’s fault that you can’t.

Trashing traps and spirits in the NM tree is also a “too bad so sad”. The cooldown on traps is not very long at all actually. Utilities aren’t meant to be spammable. When it comes to spirits, they are fragile, yes very. The answer? Keep them alive or use their abilities. Its a challenge and some rangers can do it. Some can’t. Asking for them to have full benefits without traiting is once again unrealistic. Its starting to seem like you want to have it all without having to use trait points. Can’t have everything.

I can see the ranger being at least on par when it comes to bows (archers), but it is not really unparalleled. It just seems like an exaggeration. I don’t see many warriors run bow, and thiefs that do don’t really stand out either, so then again maybe this has some truth to it? At least half if not more rangers use the bow, does this translate to the ranger’s archery skill being better than others? Not sure about that answer.

About Pets and Spirits, I think they can be useful, despite “ai issues” or whatever. I can see a problem in their ability to survive though. I know there are those who can make them last long enough to count, I surely can, but many rangers argue that the health is not enough. If they increased the health of spirits that would help them. At the same time, if you play them right, out of the way of danger, either dodging them out of aoe or placing them out of danger, they will survive much longer. With pets, I think if a dodge is implemented that would satisfy many. Maybe put a dodge into f3 and put it on a short cooldown? Personally, I think pets currently fill their intended role. There is always room for improvement though.

It’s in the link if you scroll up above the ranger statement. I think warrior is the first class listed.

I personally don’t mind if the warrior does more damage than us at range, I am just wondering why they seem to have different views on the matter. Which is supposed to be true? It causes some frustration on forums.

@wolf

Well I am sorry for assuming things about you and your post. I see so many posts about the same thing I assume things about people. I’ll try to answer your post better.

I don’t want to come across as a person who plays to win btw. I am faaaar from that. I try to win, but my fun comes from the journey and progression with my friends, not necessarily the win.

I agree the ranger is easy in PvE, and most seem to agree, but I’m not clear what your point about it is and what the pet has to do with that. Do you advocate a nerf? Where we disagree mainly is the effectiveness of the pet, but I think I have already said enough about that. The suggestions I gave about pet stow were aimed toward common player problems. What are you experiencing specifically that is so hindering? The annoyance of having your pet pop out, especially when you don’t suffer from it or have any repercussions is not enough to warrant a change. If your pet aggros (again, a general statement) what is stopping you from continuing to run or killing the mob. These pet problems I’m referring to are related to stow, so by not entering combat, that fixes the problem. Im not saying don’t ever fight, i’m saying if you don’t want you pet to come out of stow, don’t take damage. I can see a possible improvement to unstow on our attack, but what would our attack be? Would using the 5 skill of horn qualify? The 3 on greatsword?

Now I am not the only one misreading a post, reffering to your last paragraphs. First, that’s two sentences, second, the next sentence you ommitted makes that make a bit more sense. A ranger pet will attack, draw aggro, and perform skills that will benefit the ranger regardless of what it is specced for. I could still find use for an unspecced pet, I just wouldn’t expect it to do as much as fully specced. Every class has a trait line where they can spec into their class mechanic. We aren’t forced to do so in order for our pet to be useful, it just won’t be as effective. I said what I meant the wrong way, putting those sentences in succession caused you to assume I was associating what I thought personally with what I think is a priniciple. You aren’t forced to spec BM, there are multiple traits in EVERY line that buff the pet in some way, so no matter what you spec you can still help out your pet. I guess I will go ahead and assume again because I really don’t want to go into another pet debate right now, but for your sake I will discard my personal opinion for my general opinion:

Yes, pets will suck if you are willing to do nothing in order to utilize them or work with them, whether it be with traits, managment, or even simple button pushing. The rangers who expect the pet to do well without being paid attention to will be dissappointed, as it takes “serious” effort. You can switch ranger with any profession and pet with any class mechanic for that last statment.

If you claim it’s too hard or too annoying, I’m sorry but I don’t think that will stop you from playing. Gripe about the playstyle all you want, and if it’s too much then re-roll. If not, and you love the concept but hate the execution, then get your rant out on the forums, open the game tab back up, and wish on a star for a class overhaul. Just know there will be those who disagree with you.

I would agree with you. I think they go by what they stated pretty well. My only thing is that they claimed rangers can do more damage than a warrior from range. I can agree a ranger can outplay the warrior at range, but damage I’m not so sure. I like the jack of all trades view though.

I definitely would appreciate an aoe nerf towards pets and minions since they have no ability to dodge. It puts a lot more pressure on a ranger to have to dodge for spirits or f3 moniter the pet during an intense fight.

Well I have never made a thread before but I guess I will now. I see a lot of frustration in the forums, and as a result there are many observations, debates, and suggestions regarding the state of the profession. This is all good discussion as it helps us all learn or realize the class.

However I do notice that some feel that devs (Jon Peters) promised us a “significant” improvement. Also thrown around is reference to the A-net definition of a ranger, which is often seen as inaccurate (I have argued against this). Upon re-reading the Dec.14th patch notes, I noticed some addition talk on class balance and ranger I hadn’t seen around as often, so I just want to bring these to light as well. I’m sure some of you have already read this, but I haven’t so I am assuming there are others like me. The statements are near the bottom.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post1061889

From this I get several things, though others might differ in interpretation.

1. There will be no “significant improvment” as a major buff, as some seem to anticipate before every patch. The Dec.14th patch is probably as big as it gets when it comes to class balance. (Rereading the actual ranger notes I did notice a lot of buffs myself). Gradual minimal change is what will happen, as A-net seems very conservative when it comes to class balance.

2. The pets are intentionally important to the class, and they are showing no signs of changing in regards to this. They want us to combine our skills with the pet, making them just as important as weapon choice or utility choice, essentially part of your build. For the best results as a ranger in combat you have to manage them and choose wisely. There DOES appear to be a possible reference to the ranger being weaker because having a pet, a point that I earlier argued against. It looks like I was wrong on that point. However, in consideration of this, it seems A-net believes it has given the pet adequate ability to compensate for this theoretical “nerf”. They believe the pet is the supplement that makes up for this when used right. With buffs to pets in the last two patches, it also appears they are strengthening pets maybe?

3. The ranger appears to have been intended to be a jack of all trades. In this statement, it never says the ranger is the BEST at anything, but that they are ABLE to do a bit of everything(evasion, mobility, direct/condition damage, melee/range. An earlier statement most refer to states the ranger as “unparalleled archers” seems to contradict the december statement. Maybe this statement clarifies that they may not have the most damage, but the most utility/ability with the bow? That would contradict however with the warrior statment on the same patch, impling warriors cant do more damage than rangers at range. Is this true? What about killshot? This brings about a lot of debate about ranger DPS, but I can agree that warriors can outdo us in ranged damage. An answer to complaints on how weak some claim the ranger to be in comparison of ____ to profession _: We aren’t meant to excel in one area, but have access to many viable and varying builds. Maybe this implies that a balanced build should be strived for, instead of a all-in-type build that won’t be able to match the ability of a class with a similar build type. Engi’s and Ele’s are stated as highly versatile in the patch, which is notable.

This is the quote I see the most in favor of the failure of the ranger:

“Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”

This further supports a view of the ranger intended as being a “jack of all trades”. The real debate from here is the effectiveness of bows compared to thief and warrior. This is highly arguable, and because of that, it is nowhere near “unparalleled”.

I think this can be a good topic to discuss how the ranger meets/fails expectations/guidelines and if we get lucky maybe we can get input from a dev. Overall, we may gain insight into how we should effectively play the class.

TL;DR: Please read quotes and discuss ranger expectations and guidelines.

Fistsfall.7501:

Jazenn.7526:

They intend pets and minions to be killable, that’s how they want it. You have to work to keep them alive, or enjoy the brief help you do get. Ranger class is based around taking care of two characters at once. One is obviously more important than the other though (the ranger).

The thing is, they shouldn’t be pet based and shouldn’t require to take care of 2 characters. It should be a choice.

On what grounds? Some of the players’ wishes? This isn’t a democracy, lol.

“used to be”

Not anymore. This has been stated by a dev as intentional and integral.

“We’ve balanced the class around the idea that you always have a pet with you to aid in any fight.” -Jonathan Sharp in Dec. 14th patch notes.

I don’t think it will change. Fun to speculate though.

Zoid.2568:

I made a thread in the Necromancer forum a few minutes ago and i felt like the pets and minions in GW2 is lacking. They have huge problems that could easily be fixed, that of course stay true to what they are as a class.

The ranger pet dies easily in dungeons and large scale battles, same goes for the spirits. This is a huge problem for the ranger, it makes it less fun to play it and not viable, unless you solo content.

My solution is, the pet and spirits die when the leader dies, you. Your pet will keep on fighting no matter what till you are dead, same goes for the spirits. Once you’re dead, your pet and spirits will die with you.

This will make the ranger pet and spirit builds more viable, useful and more fun to play.

Of course this would need balance as always, but it will be more viable and useful, aswell as fun.

They intend pets and minions to be killable, that’s how they want it. You have to work to keep them alive, or enjoy the brief help you do get. Ranger class is based around taking care of two characters at once. One is obviously more important than the other though (the ranger).

That would be nice if you could, you don’t have to go out of your way if it’s too much trouble though. About significant improvements, I honestly don’t know what to think about that. Looking back at the december patch notes, I see more improvement than I did at first. I think it’s significant enough. But that’s obviously arguable. I honestly wish we had more dev participation in the forums, it would be soooo useful, but I understand limitations.

Really? That’s amazing, I would think it was some kind of committee and a room full of programmers, but I don’t know two things about A-net’s structure. Was there an article about this or something? Just curious to where I can read about something like that (on a quick search all I found was a list of employees on gw wiki, not sure which category is delegated to class balance).

But yea, the patch didn’t seem like a huge one combat wise, in fact they never really have been. I think the balance is delicate and they have to change gradually. If the experts think the ranger desperately needs a major overhaul/rework, they will do so. I think they will gradually change things as to not upset the balance. A sort of dynamic equilibrium as to avoid a threshold. The little things add up. Drakes being debugged and entangle getting rightful damage isn’t so bad. The spirit buff seems a bit too gradual though lol.