Guild Wars 2

nerva.7940:

if you use GS in WvW, you wont be able to get any personal kills, period. its damage output is paltry, #5 is extremely unreliable due to wind-up, #4 cripple roots you and misses most of the time. so offensively, GS is next to useless. ive been using it WvW for months.

GS role in WvW is for running, tanking, or chasing people down for your team to kill. if youre glass cannon LB, GS would be best choice as a second weapon for swoop and #4. you can do a bunker build for lulz (no real purpose) and GS would be essential. finally, GS with sword, SoH, muddy terrain/traps/entangle is the best chase in the game. you can also do trap/entagle bombs using swoop to get in or get out.

my suggestion is that GS gets a bleed for every first attack of its #1 chain. it would make a great condition/defense hybrid weapon.

DaisyRogers.6837:

Most opponents have no idea what a melee ranger is capable of.

honestly, not much. ive been playing a melee ranger in tpvp and wvw for months now. it works in spvp. it can work for tanking a few bad opponents in WvW (wont get u any kills). but in most situations you will get instagibbed the moment someone lands a lucky immobilize on you.

While I am often chasing, whether it is people who decide to run from my GS ranger or with a party, it is true that it is an excellent choice for roam/chase. At the same time, I get kills plenty via the pet.

Casey.9687:

DaisyRogers.6837:

GS is better at roaming then zerg. It has amazing closing and escape utility. I have axe/horn paired with it.

If you have GS, I suggest tanky BM. You will tank hits like none other and your pet will still dish tremendous damage (roaming, your pet is typically and foolishly ignored).

The best part about fighting in melee, is your opponent will hold still for your pet. Rangers IMO shine far more in melee than at range.

Rangers are not built for melee and they are far from ever being the best class for melee. No one is going to hold still for you in combat unless they are a warrior or guardian. People need to stop spreading that the GS is a reliable weapon because it is far from that and its not going to get fixed if people keep getting on here and saying its good. The sword has better damage then the greatsword, and better escape and dodge ability. I understand that you guys go into WvW and get some good kills on lowbies and people with less skill and think this weapon is great, but its not…you have never fought a hardcore guardian, warrior, thief, mesmer, or bunker ele if you think this weapon is great.

Learn to use the 2 skill on the sword for when you need to escape…use the launch back and then turn around and launch forward….works just as good if not better then the greatsword.

They are actually built for range or melee. I’ve fought and defeated each profession with my build plenty of times. I have used the build in sPvP and WvW. The greatsword has it’s own merits that the sword doesn’t. In addition to evades, it has a block and potentially 2 interrupts and a potential cripple. I use both and they work great together for a melee build. For me at least. I would recommend it because I was able to do well with it.

nerva.7940:

Jazenn.7526:

Jarul.8635:

Swoop + Entangle / Mud, that’s the role of a GS ranger (as I see it).

Yep I run these skills. Clerics gear. Pet does most of my damage as I catch opponents with immo/chill/stun/cripple.

cleric’s gear is overall a terrible idea on the ranger. it only works in spvp where you can access to double raven (unless you have white raven in WvW as well, which case it’s cool).

i run something similar with gs/sword/torch, but i use apothecary gear. u can actually kill stuff this way.

that being said, sword/gs with reduced cooldowns and SoH is the fastest thing in the game.

Not really, it’s a different build than conditions/ravens. I run a power build with a lil bit of might, double cats and I kill just fine.

Seetoo.9316:

Just to clarify since the choice is between spending g or spending ac tokens, isn’t healing only good if you have multiple sources of heal?

I have healing spring and regen from runes, traits, and signet, so it works out for me.

Absent Minded.5821:

I would disagree with you Jazenn. I’ve tried to play a ranger, in fact is was my first character, but each and every time I play I’ve never felt so weak. I’m afraid the ranger is bad. Maybe that’s the broken class mechanic, or the lack of viable builds in general but when I run in WvW I get stomped all day. For example, I was running with a friend just causing trouble around the map and we would always get dropped by this 3 man gank squad we kept running into. Finally, fed up with it, I jumped on my guardian who is actually not in max gear yet, and I found those guys again. My guardian was able to tank and down all three of them whereas my maxed gear ranger plus another ranger, could not kill one of them. I’m out of options at this point I hate to put my ranger away because I love the class but I just feel like no matter what build I run, no matter what tactics I use, no matter how I play, I will always get wrecked by any competent player of any opposing class.

I guess we can agree to disagree, just two players with different experiences. Sorry that you don’t like the class though, I love it.

Casey.9687:

Jazenn.7526:

Casey.9687:

The GS is a terrible defensive weapon….the sword does more damage then the great sword, you get 2 evades from the sword and can also have dagger offhand which has another evade, if i see a ranger running with a greatsword i know its an instant win for me lol.

Hm. Greatsword has an evade built into auto attack that comes faster than you can spam those 3 skills from sword dagger. Not only that, but it has swoop, which is one of the best escapes a ranger has, and block that is for 3 seconds against range and an interrupt against melee. And an interrupt via stun/daze. I have to disagree with you, I actually think the Greatsword is more defensive than sword. Sword/dagger can definitely avoid damage, and I use it as my secondary weapon set, but I switch to it when I want to be offensive, I just use the evades to avoid a hit while still putting out damage. They seem to help control an opponent. But you experience the game differently. I won’t declare my experiences as universal law though.

Have you never used the sword as an escape weapon? your 2 works just like greatsword leap….turn towards your opponent leap backwards then turn around and use the lunge and leap away and then if you have a horn you can use the speed buff so that beats out swoop. Also nobody but a warrior or guardian are goin to let you set there and hit them with melee….rangers are the weakest melee and guardians and warrior trump them by far….it is not smart to run 2 melee sets on a class that isn’t designed to run them. The fact that your saying you never lost to a ranger 1v1 in another post while running these 2 weapon sets is an utter lie or you just wait in WvW and camp the low lvls. A Trapper ranger or Bunker would easily put you in your place if you went melee like that.

I have beaten warriors and guardians with this build. And swoop is an easier escape. Did I say I never lost to a ranger? While I can’t recall a particular instance at the moment, I won’t confidently say I never lost to one.

Nurse.1085:

Jazenn.7526:

Daemon.4295:

Chopps.5047:

snip

No, this is why people think the profession is broken:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poltQGmLu5M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iK-QnDSKys
How can there not be a general consensus on these issues after seeing stuff like this?

Before the Dec.14 patch which supposedly fixed both of these problems.

I get Obstructed and Out of Range (even though I’m well within range) all of the time still. It’s especially bad in Dungeons/Fractals and WvW.

Also, the Pet AI to hit moving targets was “improved” but not fixed by any means.

It fixed it for me, at least to the point where nothing in those videos has happened to me, though I don’t know about longbow’s 1500 range because I don’t like to use it.

Casey.9687:

Jazenn.7526:

Casey.9687:

Jazenn.7526:

jkctmc.8754:

Yeah when I fight other Rangers, and they’re using melee pets, I never get hit by the pet because I know to always move. If the pet somehow gets close, I know they used Sick-em, so I root/stun/snare the pet, and they just wasted a utility.

Even worse, with the increased speed to arrows for both the Longbow, and Shortbow, you can still out-run arrows, which leaves you axes for range. Axes are a hinderance sometimes because of the massive amount of mobs in WvW, and Axes really do horrible damage.

This leaves melee, which isn’t bad, just not up to par with the other professions.

I do a lot of fight club type stuff, and duel a lot of players from many servers when we’ve faced them. I’ve seen the bad players, and the good players. There is no way in heck a good player could ever die to a Ranger. I’ve never had a Ranger that could kill any of my toons including my Ranger.

Even though we have our trolls who visit the Ranger forums, I have no doubt the class will get a string of fixes, and many who left the Ranger profession, will venture back to it. At this point I am praying the February update has several changes in it that help.

I just have to disagree with you man, I don’t experience any issues like that. I rarely die to rangers 1on1, but that’s only because I notice what they are doing because this is the class I play the most. Call me a troll because I disagree, but I think the ranger class is far from broken.

Apparently you haven’t played the class enough…..

Why is that? Because I don’t agree with someone, then I haven’t played the class enough? Lol I don’t understand.

I said that because you are clearly under the impression that the class is far from broken rofl….

Which is a differing opinion. I don’t agree with him. Soo, yea.

Casey.9687:

Jazenn.7526:

Casey.9687:

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.<———ANETS DEFINITION OF A RANGER!!!

This is what anet has stated the ranger is and will always be….i do not see anything stating it is a beastmaster nor does it say that a ranger should rely on its pet to win battles! Please stop trying to tell people what a ranger is and isn’t….this is what anets ranger is and if you don’t like it then tough. Stop telling us to reroll another class because we don’t like pets. I want to be the ranger that is stated above….not a beast master.

Edit: It says nothing about being a pet class….so all of you trying to push that argument please learn to read the actual definition before you come on and spread lies.

The ranger class combines its own innate abilities with the skills of their pets. We’ve balanced the class around the idea that you always have a pet with you to aid in any fight. The fact that the ranger can have multiple pets allows them to combine their pets in ways that most impact the current fight. We want the Ranger to have some of the evasion enjoyed by the Thief, as well as the mobility other classes employ. The class is able to deal physical or condition damage, and it can do this in melee or at range.

Another A-net statement. Take your own advice. Lol and calm down.

Lol that definition is a joke….the pet is not always by your side its usually dead. The pet is just to aid you in battle not to be your trump card…so once again i don’t see where it says the ranger is a beast master. Beast master is a option to run….its not what the class is. I run a trapper and usually just let my pet remain dead because I honestly have no need for it and win my fights on my own without a silly pet. 2,106 hours on the ranger and i rarely lose a fight and not once have i had to rely on my pet to win the battle….you people trying to push for this lame excuse for a pet is just silly.

Well I surely haven’t put 2000 hours into the game, but I still manage to make my pet work for me. I don’t care what you think of the definition, it’s what A-net says. It clearly states you will always have the pet to fight with you. You must be a really good ranger though, congratulations. Don’t assume what you don’t like must be bad.

Casey.9687:

Jazenn.7526:

jkctmc.8754:

Yeah when I fight other Rangers, and they’re using melee pets, I never get hit by the pet because I know to always move. If the pet somehow gets close, I know they used Sick-em, so I root/stun/snare the pet, and they just wasted a utility.

Even worse, with the increased speed to arrows for both the Longbow, and Shortbow, you can still out-run arrows, which leaves you axes for range. Axes are a hinderance sometimes because of the massive amount of mobs in WvW, and Axes really do horrible damage.

This leaves melee, which isn’t bad, just not up to par with the other professions.

I do a lot of fight club type stuff, and duel a lot of players from many servers when we’ve faced them. I’ve seen the bad players, and the good players. There is no way in heck a good player could ever die to a Ranger. I’ve never had a Ranger that could kill any of my toons including my Ranger.

Even though we have our trolls who visit the Ranger forums, I have no doubt the class will get a string of fixes, and many who left the Ranger profession, will venture back to it. At this point I am praying the February update has several changes in it that help.

I just have to disagree with you man, I don’t experience any issues like that. I rarely die to rangers 1on1, but that’s only because I notice what they are doing because this is the class I play the most. Call me a troll because I disagree, but I think the ranger class is far from broken.

Apparently you haven’t played the class enough…..

Why is that? Because I don’t agree with someone, then I haven’t played the class enough? Lol I don’t understand.

Casey.9687:

The GS is a terrible defensive weapon….the sword does more damage then the great sword, you get 2 evades from the sword and can also have dagger offhand which has another evade, if i see a ranger running with a greatsword i know its an instant win for me lol.

Hm. Greatsword has an evade built into auto attack that comes faster than you can spam those 3 skills from sword dagger. Not only that, but it has swoop, which is one of the best escapes a ranger has, and block that is for 3 seconds against range and an interrupt against melee. And an interrupt via stun/daze. I have to disagree with you, I actually think the Greatsword is more defensive than sword. Sword/dagger can definitely avoid damage, and I use it as my secondary weapon set, but I switch to it when I want to be offensive, I just use the evades to avoid a hit while still putting out damage. They seem to help control an opponent. But you experience the game differently. I won’t declare my experiences as universal law though.

Seetoo.9316:

Any reason in particular that you prefer power toughness healing over power toughness vitality?

I think with the ptv you get a little extra power, and with the clerics gear you get a little more survivability. Healing power and toughness allows you to take so much more damage, and with the GS being a great defensive weapon(in my opinion), it goes well with this. With healing spring, you can keep up condition removal and perma regen, and the leap on GS adds even more heal. My GS build has 1200 healing power and almost 3k armor. I lose out on damage, but I use my pet to make up for that.

I would say that I like defensive combat, so maybe that’s why I chose survivability over damage. If you want to kill more, go ptv. If you want to survive more, go clerics.

jkctmc.8754:

Yeah when I fight other Rangers, and they’re using melee pets, I never get hit by the pet because I know to always move. If the pet somehow gets close, I know they used Sick-em, so I root/stun/snare the pet, and they just wasted a utility.

Even worse, with the increased speed to arrows for both the Longbow, and Shortbow, you can still out-run arrows, which leaves you axes for range. Axes are a hinderance sometimes because of the massive amount of mobs in WvW, and Axes really do horrible damage.

This leaves melee, which isn’t bad, just not up to par with the other professions.

I do a lot of fight club type stuff, and duel a lot of players from many servers when we’ve faced them. I’ve seen the bad players, and the good players. There is no way in heck a good player could ever die to a Ranger. I’ve never had a Ranger that could kill any of my toons including my Ranger.

Even though we have our trolls who visit the Ranger forums, I have no doubt the class will get a string of fixes, and many who left the Ranger profession, will venture back to it. At this point I am praying the February update has several changes in it that help.

I just have to disagree with you man, I don’t experience any issues like that. I rarely die to rangers 1on1, but that’s only because I notice what they are doing because this is the class I play the most. Call me a troll because I disagree, but I think the ranger class is far from broken.

Daemon.4295:

Chopps.5047:

In my opinion, the reason why people think it is broken is because it has one of the steepest learning curves in the game when it comes to dungeons or WvW. The reason is because ANET, rather than gimp pets by giving them AI (see necros), they give us the control. We are responsible for making the pet make good decisions. So now you have to control two characters.

No, this is why people think the profession is broken:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poltQGmLu5M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iK-QnDSKys

How can there not be a general consensus on these issues after seeing stuff like this?

Before the Dec.14 patch which supposedly fixed both of these problems.

Jarul.8635:

Swoop + Entangle / Mud, that’s the role of a GS ranger (as I see it).

Yep I run these skills. Clerics gear. Pet does most of my damage as I catch opponents with immo/chill/stun/cripple.

Funny, lol I just was experimenting and came up with a similar spec to that a few days ago, I have been having fun with it is sPvP. QZ + Sick em is so beautiful. I use shorbow and greatsword though for the daze/interrupt and instead of 10 into marksmanship I have it into skirmishing with moment of clarity. Also I use RaO. I may have to try out your spec as well though just to compare.

Seetoo.9316:

Jazenn.7526:

Seetoo.9316:

I have just about finished fine tuning my fisherman engg (magnet net chill chill net net … repeat). I have come back to my ranger because I still want a GS using class (that was different: you expect to see wars and guards swing a GS, but not a ranger).

I look at the ranger utilities in wvw and here is what I see:
- trap cd’s are too long and do too little to be noticed in zergs
- signets and shouts don’t do anything because the pet dies too fast
- survival keeps you alive but then what?

With my fisherman I have a clear goal. I pull and immobilize while my team kills. What specific goal can I aim for with a GS ranger?

GS ranger is fun as a chaser/roamer, which is what I mostly use it for. Signet of the hunt with swoop makes you pretty fast around the map, even without swiftness. Also running a high toughness build when I use GS, I often lead the charge for my group and pop entangle, and then me and my pet play a little whack a mole (I try to find synergy with my pet). GS ranger can be pretty mobile, and can solo camps/ lead charges in a survival build. I usually do small scale combat and roaming with it, but if I do find a big battle, I usually try to head a flank. You kinda have to be on the front line to do damage with GS. This is all just me though.

So basically you simply take up a wvw slot? Seriously, small scale battles do nothing but waste time (in wvw). Combat only matters if it happens on an important location (places that contribute points). Taking a camp by yourself is not ranger specific. Any one can do this.

I can understand “being the bait” though. But, it was pretty easy to get a ranger killed after fishing him out of a crowd (all bow users though so maybe it will be diff with a GS).

Jazenn.7526:

Honestly everyone has a play-style that fits them the best, you should explore and try to find yours, once you find it the game becomes that much more fun.

It’s not about finding a play style. It’s about finding your role so you don’t feel like getting carried. And even more specific, its about finding a role as a ranger.

Just trying to help lol, but okay man, nevermind then. Hm. As a specific role my ranger does especially is like I said, tank and capture, hm I guess finding some “role of the ranger” wasn’t something I thought about. Anyone can win in WvW without being carried, regardless of class, but I suppose the ranger has it’s role.

Don’t knock on small scale battles though, they can be just as important. Things like capturing camps or towers with a party is just as useful as doing it with a zerg, and actually makes you feel less carried. Even if it isn’t at an important point. Small scale battles can hold reinforcements, cause distractions, flank, capture objectives, gather pugs, defend points, block/escort supply, you name it.

EDIT: Maybe finding a “role for the ranger” isn’t as important as just playing WvW and doing what is best for your server.

Casey.9687:

Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.<———ANETS DEFINITION OF A RANGER!!!

This is what anet has stated the ranger is and will always be….i do not see anything stating it is a beastmaster nor does it say that a ranger should rely on its pet to win battles! Please stop trying to tell people what a ranger is and isn’t….this is what anets ranger is and if you don’t like it then tough. Stop telling us to reroll another class because we don’t like pets. I want to be the ranger that is stated above….not a beast master.

Edit: It says nothing about being a pet class….so all of you trying to push that argument please learn to read the actual definition before you come on and spread lies.

The ranger class combines its own innate abilities with the skills of their pets. We’ve balanced the class around the idea that you always have a pet with you to aid in any fight. The fact that the ranger can have multiple pets allows them to combine their pets in ways that most impact the current fight. We want the Ranger to have some of the evasion enjoyed by the Thief, as well as the mobility other classes employ. The class is able to deal physical or condition damage, and it can do this in melee or at range.

Another A-net statement. Take your own advice. Lol and calm down.

Seetoo.9316:

I have just about finished fine tuning my fisherman engg (magnet net chill chill net net … repeat). I have come back to my ranger because I still want a GS using class (that was different: you expect to see wars and guards swing a GS, but not a ranger).

I look at the ranger utilities in wvw and here is what I see:
- trap cd’s are too long and do too little to be noticed in zergs
- signets and shouts don’t do anything because the pet dies too fast
- survival keeps you alive but then what?

With my fisherman I have a clear goal. I pull and immobilize while my team kills. What specific goal can I aim for with a GS ranger?

GS ranger is fun as a chaser/roamer, which is what I mostly use it for. Signet of the hunt with swoop makes you pretty fast around the map, even without swiftness. Also running a high toughness build when I use GS, I often lead the charge for my group and pop entangle, and then me and my pet play a little whack a mole (I try to find synergy with my pet). GS ranger can be pretty mobile, and can solo camps/ lead charges in a survival build. I usually do small scale combat and roaming with it, but if I do find a big battle, I usually try to head a flank. You kinda have to be on the front line to do damage with GS. This is all just me though.

Honestly everyone has a play-style that fits them the best, you should explore and try to find yours, once you find it the game becomes that much more fun.

Jyenh.5739:

Jazenn.7526:

As much as you complain about pets they are not going to go away. The best thing would be to learn how to optimize them, or if they make you hate playing ranger, re-roll warrior. If the skills make you stay, then I suggest using the pet to make you better as a ranger.

If you actually read my post, I wasn’t complaining about pets, I love having a pet, I was, however, complaining how it was the profession mechanic. I love playing ranger, but I don’t want to play a beast master ranger, aka, a ranger that solely utilises pets, due to the fact there isn’t enough utility for them. I do have a warrior, the animations and play-style doesn’t suit me, nor does the equipment, warriors seem to lack finesse to me unlike the ranger. For the last point, using the pet makes me a worse ranger, as soon as I trait into it a lose those traits that can be better put else where, I only have 5 in BM for swiftness these days. Your way of thinking that all rangers need to use pets to be ‘better’ goes against the ‘play how you want to play’ philosophy.

I don’t even see any problem with the ranger’s damage capacity, I doubt it is even that big. I don’t think Anet would want all damage rangers to use conditions for their damage output, since condition damage is calculated the same for every class it won’t be affected by any sort of handicap for the use of pets.

Daecollo.9578:
When you rolled a ranger, you chose to be a pet class, making you anything else would make you less unique, you “are” a pet class.

Other classes can use ‘pets,’ necros use minions, eles use elementals, mesmers use clones, guardians use spirit weapons, engineers use turrets, though none of these are as ‘permanant’ as ranger pets. I do agree with them being the ‘pet utilising class,’ the class that utilises pets in battle with skills…though I would like to see a wider ranger of pet utilities.

You are complaining about the class mechanic. Pets are the class mechanic. You are complaining about pets. You can play how you want to play, but at the same time you are playing the ranger class, so you have to use the pet. Mesmer can play how they want to play, but they use clones. Necro’s play how they want to play, but they use deathshroud. Play how you want, but realize that you are playing the ranger class. If you don’t want to use pets don’t play ranger.

I don’t care what those videos show. In my current WvW build, no thief has solo downed me in seconds. The ones I lost to had to at least fight for the win. I don’t know who you were playing to get a 2.5 second kill against, but not me.

jkctmc.8754:

Jazenn.7526:

jkctmc.8754:

@Jazenn

Do you feel your Ranger is on par with other classes, if so how? I havn’t played the Engineer yet, though fighting them I feel they’re weaker than the Ranger. I havn’t played the Necromancer, but seeing one in a group work their Wells, it is a sight to see, especially paired with two Elementalists in the group. Although out of the other classes I chose to gear up in Exotics, they all play way better than my Ranger under most circumstances, but most importantly groups. My Ranger brings very little to a group. My other toons however bring a lot to the group, such as;

Warrior – Much better damage (easily twice as much), faster revives on downed players, perma Swiftness, perma Fury, Perma Regen, Perma 3 stacks of Might, 10% bonus damage to crit hits, and the list could go on.

Guardian – Better damage (easily 50% more damage), pulsing group regen, access denying abilities (blocks a lot of damage to friendlies), a variety of boons, condition cures for the entire group, and the list could go on.

Mesmer – Much better damage (easily twice as much), Staff build allows me to transfer all boons on me, to my entire group (amazing combined with Chaos Storm and Chaos Armor), SEVERAL COMBO FIELDS to improve the groups damage, Null Field, stealth for the entire group, or a portal to surprise your foes, and the list could go on.

Thief – Special Note: I do not like the Thief in PvE, but WvW they add; Much better damage (easily three times as much, potentially four times as much), stealth for the entire group to surprise your foes, the best scouting ability in the game, and the list isn’t really big for the Thief, but the damage more than makes up for their lack of utility in a group.

Oh god, I don’t want to have to post something like that again right now, I’m starting to get lazier with my posts arguing the same thing. I’ll just say: jack of all trades. Besides that, you are highly underestimating the ranger. You think a thief can kill something 4 times over before a ranger can kill it once? kitten I’m not a master of classes but I know that ain’t true. Each class might be best at whatever but the ranger can do it all.

Too much knowledge for you? I told you, you were only trolling. The only thing a Ranger can do, another class can’t is provide a permanent pet. The other classes provide the same things; better. To be a jack of all trades means you provide a larger variety of abilities the other classes do not.

I’ve hit for 9k on my Thief, in one hit, against a bunker Guardian. How long would it take you to match that single hit? Right before that hit, I delivered a 5k Cloak and Dagger. How long would it take for you to deliver that 5k damage? In less than 4 seconds I’ve dropped a Bunker Warrior with over 23k health. You wouldn’t have killed him in 20 seconds.

My buddy has a video (I’ll have to see if he still has it up on youtube) of him killing a Bunker Guardian in less than 3 seconds. It was something like 2.5 seconds. You obviously know very little about this game.

Here, educate yourself….

This is an average damage spec.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE_Nf8h5R-g

Over 9k hits in sPvP. In WvW we can get much higher critical hit damage. This person would have hit for 12k easy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO3Su2tTch4

Not too much knowledge, I just don’t care to throw around empty stats that are either exaggerations or not all possible at once. You may have burst, but that is different from DPS. In 2.5 seconds, you can achieve a hit over 4 times as much as a ranger’s hit. In a minute, add up the damage, and no, you can’t put out 4 times as much. If you can, then go ahead and put of a video of a thief full damage spec and a ranger full damage spec. Make them both fight golems in Heart of the Mists, the easiest testing grounds. If the thief takes out 4 times as many golems within the minute, then you are right.

Peter.9406:

@Jazenn
Here are two things you said:
When asked what do various threads prove you answered, “Consensus on the ranger class as a whole. Not just spirits. I think everyone can agree that spirits aren’t perfect.”

Then later you wrote, “There is a consensus on spirits, but not the ranger class as a whole.”

I and someone else on this thread, and from what I read on another thread, think you are a troll so I am done trying to reason with you. You have the right to your opinion, and I am done trying to discuss this topic with you.

When I said consensus on the ranger class as a whole, I was answering to when you said “if you think there isn’t a general consensus”. I was agreeing that I thought there wasn’t a general consensus on the ranger class as a whole, not that I thought that there wasn’t a general consensus on spirits. When I said, “there is a consensus on spirits, but not the ranger class as a whole”, it was in agreement with what I was communicating earlier. I don’t think there is a consensus on the ranger class as a whole, but only one on spirits.

Maybe you need to read the thread. I think you are the true troll, taking things out of context and then saying “I’m done here”. Lol

jkctmc.8754:

@Jazenn

Do you feel your Ranger is on par with other classes, if so how? I havn’t played the Engineer yet, though fighting them I feel they’re weaker than the Ranger. I havn’t played the Necromancer, but seeing one in a group work their Wells, it is a sight to see, especially paired with two Elementalists in the group. Although out of the other classes I chose to gear up in Exotics, they all play way better than my Ranger under most circumstances, but most importantly groups. My Ranger brings very little to a group. My other toons however bring a lot to the group, such as;

Warrior – Much better damage (easily twice as much), faster revives on downed players, perma Swiftness, perma Fury, Perma Regen, Perma 3 stacks of Might, 10% bonus damage to crit hits, and the list could go on.

Guardian – Better damage (easily 50% more damage), pulsing group regen, access denying abilities (blocks a lot of damage to friendlies), a variety of boons, condition cures for the entire group, and the list could go on.

Mesmer – Much better damage (easily twice as much), Staff build allows me to transfer all boons on me, to my entire group (amazing combined with Chaos Storm and Chaos Armor), SEVERAL COMBO FIELDS to improve the groups damage, Null Field, stealth for the entire group, or a portal to surprise your foes, and the list could go on.

Thief – Special Note: I do not like the Thief in PvE, but WvW they add; Much better damage (easily three times as much, potentially four times as much), stealth for the entire group to surprise your foes, the best scouting ability in the game, and the list isn’t really big for the Thief, but the damage more than makes up for their lack of utility in a group.

Oh god, I don’t want to have to post something like that again right now, I’m starting to get lazier with my posts arguing the same thing. I’ll just say: jack of all trades. Besides that, you are highly underestimating the ranger. You think a thief can kill something 4 times over before a ranger can kill it once? kitten I’m not a master of classes but I know that ain’t true. Each class might be best at whatever but the ranger can do it all.

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

I never said pets suck, my argument is coming from a PvE point of view where they have to AR and spirits who are lacking tremendously to the point of being unusable.

But I’m pretty sure those heavy PvP’ers would say that in sPvP against skilled players ranger pets are bad because they can easily be strafed to where they do no damage.

Wasn’t quoting you, just a popular argument.

Ok but that’s not the argument that’s being discussed here.

Yes, it does.

No, just read my post above this one.

Yes, it was a good read though. I don’t think it’s a general consensus. I never see people complain in-game. I think that the most people who want to complain come here. I’m only a decent ranger and some problems that are detailed on the forums are things I don’t have to deal with at all.

Post about spirits:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/State-of-the-Ranger-2013

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Idea-for-Ranger-Spirits/first#post1349917

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Pets-and-Spirits/first#post1337772

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Are-they-mocking-us

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/It-s-not-the-HP

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/The-problem-with-Spirits

you can find plenty of others on your own.

So if this isn’t a general consensus then I advise you to tell me what it is.

And they don’t complain in game because we go in game to play and our voice isn’t heard in game, it’s heard here.

Consensus on the ranger class as a whole. Not just spirits. I think everyone can agree that spirits aren’t perfect.

Ok and I started this thread to argue that compared to other class forums we, the ranger forum, are displeased as a general consensus with broken mechanics. The ones I argue specifically are pets not sharing AR which hurt us really bad in Fractals and spirits being horrible and lessening our build diversity. I also mention how signet recharge should be lowered but honestly that would just be an improvement to quality of life and not major.

Other have argued that pet pathing in PvP needs work and I agree since pets deal most of our damage and they can easily be strafed but I don’t think that can be fixed so I do not argue that.

Again, as I said before read the entire thread before commenting please.

I have read the thread and I stand by what I said.

I think you’re just confused and don’t have enough experience to speak on this topic. You just said that there’s a general consensus on the ranger class, specifically spirits, and you then say there are no major problems. I think you’re just trolling because besides you and Chopps everyone else on this thread, and a majority of this forum, pretty much agrees that there are major problems that need fixing and most of us are experienced players.

Im sure there are many more that agree, they just don’t feel the need to come to forums and complain because they are doing fine. There is a consensus on spirits, but not the ranger class as a whole. I think you are confused. Anyone who has played ranger has enough “experience” to speak on this topic lol. This is not academia, this is GW2 lol. I think there are a lot of trolls on this forum, but I don’t consider myself one. Lol get out of here with that experience crap, theres little way for any of us to have credibility outside of strangers assuming what they can about each other lol. I don’t care what most people on the forums think, majority isn’t always right.

jkctmc.8754:

Jazenn.7526:

jkctmc.8754:

Jazenn.7526:

jkctmc.8754:

Jazenn.7526:

jkctmc.8754:

Jazenn.7526:

jkctmc.8754:

@Chopps, and Jazenn

I have the following fully geared 80s; Ranger, Warrior, Thief, Mesmer, and finally a Guardian. I have never lost to another Ranger in a 1v1, ever, on any of my toons, including my Ranger.

If you honestly think people, including myself who feel the class has a lot of issues are just bad players, put your money where your mouth is. Switch servers, and duel me, IN WVW, on all my toons.

I’ll let you fraps it, and post the results. The ball is in your court now. Send me a PM so we can get this started.

1) I don’t care if you can beat me, I don’t claim to be the best, and I don’t think the class is bad. Beating me would only further support what I think, if anything at all.

2) I’m not paying to switch servers to fight you lol. You can catch me yourself if your online and sure I will in sPvP. Haven’t been able to get on in about a week but I’m on now, I always like duels.

You mention sPvP, which (follow me now) is not WvW. I hope you know the difference by now, and understand the largest number of issues with the Ranger are in WvW, not the nerfed and weaken state sPvP is, where bunker builds rule because they remove so much damage so you can cope.

How can you say Rangers are fine, but you’re not willing to back it up? For them to be fine, do you not think you should be good enough to actually kill a good player with them, especially when you claim that those having issues have to be bad players?

Well you can pay money to come to my tier and fight me then, lol I’m not paying to fight you dude. I realize the difference between WvW and PvP, and it’s the money I’m not gonna pay. And yea I think I can beat pretty much anyone. I just fight people I see, idk who is “good” or not beforehand.

We should both transfer to the two cheapest servers. We’ll have to be on opposite servers. Once you transfer, I can take my alt account to your server so that I know you did in fact transfer before transfering mine.

Um, no. How about you stop trolling and contribute? Not complaining and whining for changes, but real tips, advice, or strategy of how to play ranger, since you are obviously a master at it.

Did you not click on this thread?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Changes-the-Ranger-needs-for-WVW/page/3#post1356529

Quit being a forum warrior, and actually learn the game before you try to offer advice.

1) That’s a whine for change thread, not a good contribution to the forums.

2) Forum warrior? Someone who posts on the forums that happens to have a different opinion than you?

3) I know how to play well enough, I can offer whatever advice I can, you don’t have to listen.

It’s a whine? Yeah you’re a troll. GG

Yes it is. Im no troll, just stating my mind lol sorry if it makes you mad.

jkctmc.8754:

Jazenn.7526:

jkctmc.8754:

Jazenn.7526:

jkctmc.8754:

Jazenn.7526:

jkctmc.8754:

@Chopps, and Jazenn

I have the following fully geared 80s; Ranger, Warrior, Thief, Mesmer, and finally a Guardian. I have never lost to another Ranger in a 1v1, ever, on any of my toons, including my Ranger.

If you honestly think people, including myself who feel the class has a lot of issues are just bad players, put your money where your mouth is. Switch servers, and duel me, IN WVW, on all my toons.

I’ll let you fraps it, and post the results. The ball is in your court now. Send me a PM so we can get this started.

1) I don’t care if you can beat me, I don’t claim to be the best, and I don’t think the class is bad. Beating me would only further support what I think, if anything at all.

2) I’m not paying to switch servers to fight you lol. You can catch me yourself if your online and sure I will in sPvP. Haven’t been able to get on in about a week but I’m on now, I always like duels.

You mention sPvP, which (follow me now) is not WvW. I hope you know the difference by now, and understand the largest number of issues with the Ranger are in WvW, not the nerfed and weaken state sPvP is, where bunker builds rule because they remove so much damage so you can cope.

How can you say Rangers are fine, but you’re not willing to back it up? For them to be fine, do you not think you should be good enough to actually kill a good player with them, especially when you claim that those having issues have to be bad players?

Well you can pay money to come to my tier and fight me then, lol I’m not paying to fight you dude. I realize the difference between WvW and PvP, and it’s the money I’m not gonna pay. And yea I think I can beat pretty much anyone. I just fight people I see, idk who is “good” or not beforehand.

We should both transfer to the two cheapest servers. We’ll have to be on opposite servers. Once you transfer, I can take my alt account to your server so that I know you did in fact transfer before transfering mine.

Um, no. How about you stop trolling and contribute? Not complaining and whining for changes, but real tips, advice, or strategy of how to play ranger, since you are obviously a master at it.

Did you not click on this thread?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Changes-the-Ranger-needs-for-WVW/page/3#post1356529

Quit being a forum warrior, and actually learn the game before you try to offer advice.

1) That’s a whine for change thread, not a good contribution to the forums.

2) Forum warrior? Someone who posts on the forums that happens to have a different opinion than you?

3) I know how to play well enough, I can offer whatever advice I can, you don’t have to listen.

jkctmc.8754:

Jazenn.7526:

jkctmc.8754:

Jazenn.7526:

jkctmc.8754:

@Chopps, and Jazenn

I have the following fully geared 80s; Ranger, Warrior, Thief, Mesmer, and finally a Guardian. I have never lost to another Ranger in a 1v1, ever, on any of my toons, including my Ranger.

If you honestly think people, including myself who feel the class has a lot of issues are just bad players, put your money where your mouth is. Switch servers, and duel me, IN WVW, on all my toons.

I’ll let you fraps it, and post the results. The ball is in your court now. Send me a PM so we can get this started.

1) I don’t care if you can beat me, I don’t claim to be the best, and I don’t think the class is bad. Beating me would only further support what I think, if anything at all.

2) I’m not paying to switch servers to fight you lol. You can catch me yourself if your online and sure I will in sPvP. Haven’t been able to get on in about a week but I’m on now, I always like duels.

You mention sPvP, which (follow me now) is not WvW. I hope you know the difference by now, and understand the largest number of issues with the Ranger are in WvW, not the nerfed and weaken state sPvP is, where bunker builds rule because they remove so much damage so you can cope.

How can you say Rangers are fine, but you’re not willing to back it up? For them to be fine, do you not think you should be good enough to actually kill a good player with them, especially when you claim that those having issues have to be bad players?

Well you can pay money to come to my tier and fight me then, lol I’m not paying to fight you dude. I realize the difference between WvW and PvP, and it’s the money I’m not gonna pay. And yea I think I can beat pretty much anyone. I just fight people I see, idk who is “good” or not beforehand.

We should both transfer to the two cheapest servers. We’ll have to be on opposite servers. Once you transfer, I can take my alt account to your server so that I know you did in fact transfer before transfering mine.

Um, no. How about you stop trolling and contribute? Not complaining and whining for changes, but real tips, advice, or strategy of how to play ranger, since you are obviously a master at it.

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

I never said pets suck, my argument is coming from a PvE point of view where they have to AR and spirits who are lacking tremendously to the point of being unusable.

But I’m pretty sure those heavy PvP’ers would say that in sPvP against skilled players ranger pets are bad because they can easily be strafed to where they do no damage.

Wasn’t quoting you, just a popular argument.

Ok but that’s not the argument that’s being discussed here.

Yes, it does.

No, just read my post above this one.

Yes, it was a good read though. I don’t think it’s a general consensus. I never see people complain in-game. I think that the most people who want to complain come here. I’m only a decent ranger and some problems that are detailed on the forums are things I don’t have to deal with at all.

Post about spirits:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/State-of-the-Ranger-2013

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Idea-for-Ranger-Spirits/first#post1349917

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Pets-and-Spirits/first#post1337772

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Are-they-mocking-us

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/It-s-not-the-HP

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/The-problem-with-Spirits

you can find plenty of others on your own.

So if this isn’t a general consensus then I advise you to tell me what it is.

And they don’t complain in game because we go in game to play and our voice isn’t heard in game, it’s heard here.

Consensus on the ranger class as a whole. Not just spirits. I think everyone can agree that spirits aren’t perfect.

Ok and I started this thread to argue that compared to other class forums we, the ranger forum, are displeased as a general consensus with broken mechanics. The ones I argue specifically are pets not sharing AR which hurt us really bad in Fractals and spirits being horrible and lessening our build diversity. I also mention how signet recharge should be lowered but honestly that would just be an improvement to quality of life and not major.

Other have argued that pet pathing in PvP needs work and I agree since pets deal most of our damage and they can easily be strafed but I don’t think that can be fixed so I do not argue that.

Again, as I said before read the entire thread before commenting please.

I have read the thread and I stand by what I said.

jkctmc.8754:

Jazenn.7526:

jkctmc.8754:

@Chopps, and Jazenn

I have the following fully geared 80s; Ranger, Warrior, Thief, Mesmer, and finally a Guardian. I have never lost to another Ranger in a 1v1, ever, on any of my toons, including my Ranger.

If you honestly think people, including myself who feel the class has a lot of issues are just bad players, put your money where your mouth is. Switch servers, and duel me, IN WVW, on all my toons.

I’ll let you fraps it, and post the results. The ball is in your court now. Send me a PM so we can get this started.

1) I don’t care if you can beat me, I don’t claim to be the best, and I don’t think the class is bad. Beating me would only further support what I think, if anything at all.

2) I’m not paying to switch servers to fight you lol. You can catch me yourself if your online and sure I will in sPvP. Haven’t been able to get on in about a week but I’m on now, I always like duels.

You mention sPvP, which (follow me now) is not WvW. I hope you know the difference by now, and understand the largest number of issues with the Ranger are in WvW, not the nerfed and weaken state sPvP is, where bunker builds rule because they remove so much damage so you can cope.

How can you say Rangers are fine, but you’re not willing to back it up? For them to be fine, do you not think you should be good enough to actually kill a good player with them, especially when you claim that those having issues have to be bad players?

Well you can pay money to come to my tier and fight me then, lol I’m not paying to fight you dude. I realize the difference between WvW and PvP, and it’s the money I’m not gonna pay. And yea I think I can beat pretty much anyone. I just fight people I see, idk who is “good” or not beforehand.

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

I never said pets suck, my argument is coming from a PvE point of view where they have to AR and spirits who are lacking tremendously to the point of being unusable.

But I’m pretty sure those heavy PvP’ers would say that in sPvP against skilled players ranger pets are bad because they can easily be strafed to where they do no damage.

Wasn’t quoting you, just a popular argument.

Ok but that’s not the argument that’s being discussed here.

Yes, it does.

No, just read my post above this one.

Yes, it was a good read though. I don’t think it’s a general consensus. I never see people complain in-game. I think that the most people who want to complain come here. I’m only a decent ranger and some problems that are detailed on the forums are things I don’t have to deal with at all.

Post about spirits:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/State-of-the-Ranger-2013

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Idea-for-Ranger-Spirits/first#post1349917

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Ranger-Pets-and-Spirits/first#post1337772

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Are-they-mocking-us

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/It-s-not-the-HP

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/The-problem-with-Spirits

you can find plenty of others on your own.

So if this isn’t a general consensus then I advise you to tell me what it is.

And they don’t complain in game because we go in game to play and our voice isn’t heard in game, it’s heard here.

Consensus on the ranger class as a whole. Not just spirits. I think everyone can agree that spirits aren’t perfect.

jkctmc.8754:

@Chopps, and Jazenn

I have the following fully geared 80s; Ranger, Warrior, Thief, Mesmer, and finally a Guardian. I have never lost to another Ranger in a 1v1, ever, on any of my toons, including my Ranger.

If you honestly think people, including myself who feel the class has a lot of issues are just bad players, put your money where your mouth is. Switch servers, and duel me, IN WVW, on all my toons.

I’ll let you fraps it, and post the results. The ball is in your court now. Send me a PM so we can get this started.

1) I don’t care if you can beat me, I don’t claim to be the best, and I don’t think the class is bad. Beating me would only further support what I think, if anything at all.

2) I’m not paying to switch servers to fight you lol. You can catch me yourself if your online and sure I will in sPvP. Haven’t been able to get on in about a week but I’m on now, I always like duels.

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

I never said pets suck, my argument is coming from a PvE point of view where they have to AR and spirits who are lacking tremendously to the point of being unusable.

But I’m pretty sure those heavy PvP’ers would say that in sPvP against skilled players ranger pets are bad because they can easily be strafed to where they do no damage.

Wasn’t quoting you, just a popular argument.

Ok but that’s not the argument that’s being discussed here.

Yes, it does.

No, just read my post above this one.

Yes, it was a good read though. I don’t think it’s a general consensus. I never see people complain in-game. I think that the most people who want to complain come here. I’m only a decent ranger and some problems that are detailed on the forums are things I don’t have to deal with at all.

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

I never said pets suck, my argument is coming from a PvE point of view where they have to AR and spirits who are lacking tremendously to the point of being unusable.

But I’m pretty sure those heavy PvP’ers would say that in sPvP against skilled players ranger pets are bad because they can easily be strafed to where they do no damage.

Wasn’t quoting you, just a popular argument.

Ok but that’s not the argument that’s being discussed here.

Yes, it does.

Peter.9406:

Jazenn.7526:

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

I never said pets suck, my argument is coming from a PvE point of view where they have to AR and spirits who are lacking tremendously to the point of being unusable.

But I’m pretty sure those heavy PvP’ers would say that in sPvP against skilled players ranger pets are bad because they can easily be strafed to where they do no damage.

Wasn’t quoting you, just a popular argument.

I like the ascalonian ruins a lot. The history of the world is interesting, too bad I never played GW1

Spirits are better than many think, they just get so much crap, my very first build was spirits, but coming on the forums discouraged me from using them. I made the mistake of letting others influence my choices too much.

The real issues that are arguable are the survivability and the icd, but despite that, they are still viable. A buff would be nice though, I think it will come with time.

Chopps.5047:

AjoraOaks.3659:

cipherus.7052:

I agree with Chopps here. I’ve been playing this class in my spare time since my Guardian has gotten dull, and I wanted to visit these forums for neat builds and tips but much to my dismay it’s only filled with constant whining and complaining.

It really just turns me off this class, despite the fact that I love my little ranger and his playstyle. I wish there was a separate subforum here for complaints and gripes about rangers.

I laughed when I read neat builds and tips… can continue blaming the people but I figure if the class didn’t have so many issues (especially with pets and then traits following that) you’d see less complaints about complaints and complaints about ranger. Considering how ranger is at the moment the reverse would work better, complaints being the main forum while they keep a lil sticky at top saying build ideas (sound familiar?).

I have many good builds, I just haven’t revealed them yet because the fact that no one uses ranger and no one believes in them works to the favor of my guild. But for the reason you stated I’ve been working to change that, although I’m not sure if that thread is a good place to go because there’s a lot of bad information in there. I will post a video in the near future explaining how to play this class.

In my opinion, the reason why people think it is broken is because it has one of the steepest learning curves in the game when it comes to dungeons or WvW. The reason is because ANET, rather than gimp pets by giving them AI (see necros), they give us the control. We are responsible for making the pet make good decisions. So now you have to control two characters.

Not only that, there’s differences like 30/30/10/0/0 not actually being, necessarily, the highest DPS build. This common glass cannon build (where pets die very, very easily) is a big reason why people have the misperception that pets are squishy.

I give the community another couple months to figure this out, particularly as people begin to level ranger after having mained something else.

Another thing that throws people off is the fact that if you use default keybindings, you’re going to have a bad day. More so than any other profession, using default keybindings will severely limit your potential as a ranger.

PS: As a teaser, I’ve had success with the following traitlines:

0/30/20/0/20

0/0/30/10/30

0/20/0/30/20

10/0/30/0/30

0/0/30/10/30

0/0/30/30/10

I’m sure I’m missing a few…I will elaborate on these later.

I’m with you on this Chopps, tell us your tips and stuff! Lol

Kasama.8941:

Let me correct some misconceptions here:

The Ranger is not a “jack of all trades, master of none”. That kind of versatility is given to the Elementalist and the Engineer. What makes the Ranger special is the ability to always be two players (the pet and yourself) in every situation that you encounter. This means that you can for instance revive an ally, while your pet distract the foes, or you can have the pet revive (with Search and Rescue) while you distract the foes. That is the strength of the Ranger.

From the december 14 update:
Ranger
The ranger class combines its own innate abilities with the skills of their pets. We’ve balanced the class around the idea that you always have a pet with you to aid in any fight. The fact that the ranger can have multiple pets allows them to combine their pets in ways that most impact the current fight. We want the Ranger to have some of the evasion enjoyed by the Thief, as well as the mobility other classes employ. The class is able to deal physical or condition damage, and it can do this in melee or at range.

Elementalist
We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.

Engineer
The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

---

If you’d only had to pick a profession for a dungeon, based on their value to a group, then everyone would only be playing Guardian, Elementalist, and Mesmer. But seeing as this is a game, meant to be played for your enjoyment, it doesn’t make any sense to only pick a profession based on how valuable it is to others, but more on how valuable you think it is to play yourself.

Versatility as in being able to change roles during battle, still not as great a jack of all trades as ranger is. Elementalists can’t melee or do condition damage as well as ranger. Engi can’t really melee or do long range, can’t do as much damage as a ranger can outside of 100nade gimmick, and don’t have the same evade power as a ranger. Ranger is a better jack of all trades.

Trute.6315:

Having read all this.

It seems to me Jay actually plays both classes and seems to have lots of knowledge and experience about the game. While the other two, are really just casuals sticking for up for their class. They say Rangers are a jack of all trades and a master of none. THIS IS A FACT

However what they don’t realize that when Rangers even bother speccing into half the BS they said rangers could, it’s not even practical. I’m so tired of hearing what they say rangers could do when it doesn’t even matter. In the end what Rangers need to do is do damage and be tanky enough to survive. Not o look I can evade, cure conditions, put conditions IN MULTIPLE WAYS. o look I can apply bloons.

Anyways it was obvious Daecollo and Jazenn shouldn’t be taken seriously when one says Rangers deal respectable damage in dungeons even without their pets. LOLDOUEVENRANGER? While the other one says Warrior only beat Rangers in terms of damage and acts as if Rangers has something other than damage to offer…

Lol you assume things about me you don’t even know and put words in my mouth. You also think the ranger can’t do anything except damage. You say all rangers need to do is do damage and survive. That’s every class. You don’t recognize any factor except damage and tankiness? You shouldn’t be taken seriously.

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Agadar.4931:

Jazenn.7526:

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

I’m sure at one point in history, a soldier managed to survive a one on one with an enemy by flinging dung in his face.

Point is that while flinging dung can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a firearm. It’s just that much more effective.

Likewise, while a ranger can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a warrior, thief, mesmer, elementalist, guardian, or necromancer.

Hmmm, except I wouldn’t say that the ranger is dung lol.

I like this analogy: In a toolkit, the ranger would be the swiss army knife. And I like that.

The broken swiss army knife that has one and a half of it’s many tools even remotely useful

No, just a regular swiss army knife. Some don’t know all the functions, might get frustrated and call it dung, but others use it well.

While you use that swiss army knife on that enemy of yours, i’ll be using a rifle.

From a toolbox? Lol but no.

This is all just empty talk anyway.

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Jay.3284:

Daecollo.9578:

Thanks for proving my point, you bolded exactly what I said, a Warrior has to sacrifice an offhand, and 20 points in one tree to get something a ranger does not, this leaves the warrior at a statistic disadvantage, those 20 points could be increasing his critical damage, or critical chance, or giving him condition damage, and this is just one example.

A Warrior has to give up things, while a ranger can do all that while giving up almost nothing.

No warrior would “just” put 20 points in vitality just to get Warhorn, they would probably go full banners, just because they already statistically wasted 20 points to get a condition removal, they could add 10 more and get regenerating banners.

A Ranger does not really have to sacrifice anything to get things, they were “made” to be a red mage, and a warrior sacrifices his main thing “damage.” to get that utility.

What…. To say No Warrior would use the Warhorn trait in dungeons is pure atrocity
On that case…

- For condition removals you have Healing Spring/Signet of Renewal/Brown Bear… OR Speccing 30 into Wilderness… (More than 20 tactics)Lengthy cooldowns (Have to stand in a Circle for one making that area into a target, For the active affect you need to be close to an alive pet, Kill-able + not always out)
- For vigour and dodging you need to spec into Wilderness, have Healing Spring (which is a target mark essentially) and have sword offhand to maximize your damage mitigation
- For a Ranger to actually truly benefit from their boons, they need to spec HEAVILY into Nature Magic for the duration…. IE a waste
- You need to spec into 2 TREES HEAVILY for a sizeble amount of condition damage for a Ranger

About the condition removal, the play-style of the ranger makes the condition removal easy when it comes to being close to the pet. We actually don’t have to spec heavy into anything, we get choice. Only five for the endurance regen. For vigor we can spec either wilderness or skirmishing. Boon duration isn’t too big for the ranger, speccing 10 into nature gets you +33% regen. With that much keeping perma fury between you and pet and RaO is easy. You don’t have to spec for the condition damage stat, most of your stats will come from gear. In that logic(as well as your boon duration logic), then any class has to spec heavily for stats.

You do realize JUST 20 in tactics give a Warrior EXTRA onto what he has? You really don’t need 20 in tactics…
- To have better condition removals than Rangers
- To have better damage mitigation
- To have better boon duration/boon applications

I disagree. Point blank. Not about the trait but just claiming the warrior can outclass the ranger in everything.

Warriors can/does outclass Rangers in EVERYTHING, excluding Condition Damage

Well I sure haven’t seen that. In fact when I see a warrior and ranger match up I expect the ranger to win, for myself especially. Then again that is personal experience, but just saying. Few warriors beat me.

Warriors are below the belt in PvP. Ranger vs Warrior is even, maybe even favoured to Ranger (Due to the PvP Warrior skill-cap). But in a PvE aspect (What i’ve been referring to all the time)? Warriors dominate Rangers

I thought rangers were pretty good in PvE? Better than most classes right?

If you’re talking open world PvE, yes… Every class is great Open world PvE. PvE dungeons… Rangers are god awful.

I will admit I don’t do all dungeons. I don’t do fractals because I started late. But the dungeons and fractals I have done, I do just fine. I have my own function if one is needed, and sometimes I lead the group. Once again, haven’t been to high level fractals though so I wouldn’t know bout that.

EDIT: Point is, I don’t see warriors being better than rangers at everything like you do. I only notice the damage really, the buffs too I guess.

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Agadar.4931:

Jazenn.7526:

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

I’m sure at one point in history, a soldier managed to survive a one on one with an enemy by flinging dung in his face.

Point is that while flinging dung can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a firearm. It’s just that much more effective.

Likewise, while a ranger can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a warrior, thief, mesmer, elementalist, guardian, or necromancer.

Hmmm, except I wouldn’t say that the ranger is dung lol.

I like this analogy: In a toolkit, the ranger would be the swiss army knife. And I like that.

The broken swiss army knife that has one and a half of it’s many tools even remotely useful

No, just a regular swiss army knife. Some don’t know all the functions, might get frustrated and call it dung, but others use it well.

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Jay.3284:

Daecollo.9578:

Thanks for proving my point, you bolded exactly what I said, a Warrior has to sacrifice an offhand, and 20 points in one tree to get something a ranger does not, this leaves the warrior at a statistic disadvantage, those 20 points could be increasing his critical damage, or critical chance, or giving him condition damage, and this is just one example.

A Warrior has to give up things, while a ranger can do all that while giving up almost nothing.

No warrior would “just” put 20 points in vitality just to get Warhorn, they would probably go full banners, just because they already statistically wasted 20 points to get a condition removal, they could add 10 more and get regenerating banners.

A Ranger does not really have to sacrifice anything to get things, they were “made” to be a red mage, and a warrior sacrifices his main thing “damage.” to get that utility.

What…. To say No Warrior would use the Warhorn trait in dungeons is pure atrocity
On that case…

- For condition removals you have Healing Spring/Signet of Renewal/Brown Bear… OR Speccing 30 into Wilderness… (More than 20 tactics)Lengthy cooldowns (Have to stand in a Circle for one making that area into a target, For the active affect you need to be close to an alive pet, Kill-able + not always out)
- For vigour and dodging you need to spec into Wilderness, have Healing Spring (which is a target mark essentially) and have sword offhand to maximize your damage mitigation
- For a Ranger to actually truly benefit from their boons, they need to spec HEAVILY into Nature Magic for the duration…. IE a waste
- You need to spec into 2 TREES HEAVILY for a sizeble amount of condition damage for a Ranger

About the condition removal, the play-style of the ranger makes the condition removal easy when it comes to being close to the pet. We actually don’t have to spec heavy into anything, we get choice. Only five for the endurance regen. For vigor we can spec either wilderness or skirmishing. Boon duration isn’t too big for the ranger, speccing 10 into nature gets you +33% regen. With that much keeping perma fury between you and pet and RaO is easy. You don’t have to spec for the condition damage stat, most of your stats will come from gear. In that logic(as well as your boon duration logic), then any class has to spec heavily for stats.

You do realize JUST 20 in tactics give a Warrior EXTRA onto what he has? You really don’t need 20 in tactics…
- To have better condition removals than Rangers
- To have better damage mitigation
- To have better boon duration/boon applications

I disagree. Point blank. Not about the trait but just claiming the warrior can outclass the ranger in everything.

Warriors can/does outclass Rangers in EVERYTHING, excluding Condition Damage

Well I sure haven’t seen that. In fact when I see a warrior and ranger match up I expect the ranger to win, for myself especially. Then again that is personal experience, but just saying. Few warriors beat me.

Warriors are below the belt in PvP. Ranger vs Warrior is even, maybe even favoured to Ranger (Due to the PvP Warrior skill-cap). But in a PvE aspect (What i’ve been referring to all the time)? Warriors dominate Rangers

I thought rangers were pretty good in PvE? Better than most classes right?

Agadar.4931:

Jazenn.7526:

Without wanting to write much, I will just say I think the ranger is fine. What some of you claim as broken, others find success with, so it’s hard to agree with you. It’s like:

“My pet sucks it never hits.”

Me thinking Huh? My pet hits just fine? There’s no way I took out that bunker guardian alone, I was specced into defense? I didn’t make those 2.5k hits?

I’m sure at one point in history, a soldier managed to survive a one on one with an enemy by flinging dung in his face.

Point is that while flinging dung can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a firearm. It’s just that much more effective.

Likewise, while a ranger can be effective, you’ll much rather go to war with a warrior, thief, mesmer, elementalist, guardian, or necromancer.

Hmmm, except I wouldn’t say that the ranger is dung lol.

I like this analogy: In a toolkit, the ranger would be the swiss army knife. And I like that.

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Jay.3284:

Daecollo.9578:

Thanks for proving my point, you bolded exactly what I said, a Warrior has to sacrifice an offhand, and 20 points in one tree to get something a ranger does not, this leaves the warrior at a statistic disadvantage, those 20 points could be increasing his critical damage, or critical chance, or giving him condition damage, and this is just one example.

A Warrior has to give up things, while a ranger can do all that while giving up almost nothing.

No warrior would “just” put 20 points in vitality just to get Warhorn, they would probably go full banners, just because they already statistically wasted 20 points to get a condition removal, they could add 10 more and get regenerating banners.

A Ranger does not really have to sacrifice anything to get things, they were “made” to be a red mage, and a warrior sacrifices his main thing “damage.” to get that utility.

What…. To say No Warrior would use the Warhorn trait in dungeons is pure atrocity
On that case…

- For condition removals you have Healing Spring/Signet of Renewal/Brown Bear… OR Speccing 30 into Wilderness… (More than 20 tactics)Lengthy cooldowns (Have to stand in a Circle for one making that area into a target, For the active affect you need to be close to an alive pet, Kill-able + not always out)
- For vigour and dodging you need to spec into Wilderness, have Healing Spring (which is a target mark essentially) and have sword offhand to maximize your damage mitigation
- For a Ranger to actually truly benefit from their boons, they need to spec HEAVILY into Nature Magic for the duration…. IE a waste
- You need to spec into 2 TREES HEAVILY for a sizeble amount of condition damage for a Ranger

About the condition removal, the play-style of the ranger makes the condition removal easy when it comes to being close to the pet. We actually don’t have to spec heavy into anything, we get choice. Only five for the endurance regen. For vigor we can spec either wilderness or skirmishing. Boon duration isn’t too big for the ranger, speccing 10 into nature gets you +33% regen. With that much keeping perma fury between you and pet and RaO is easy. You don’t have to spec for the condition damage stat, most of your stats will come from gear. In that logic(as well as your boon duration logic), then any class has to spec heavily for stats.

You do realize JUST 20 in tactics give a Warrior EXTRA onto what he has? You really don’t need 20 in tactics…
- To have better condition removals than Rangers
- To have better damage mitigation
- To have better boon duration/boon applications

I disagree. Point blank. Not about the trait but just claiming the warrior can outclass the ranger in everything.

Warriors can/does outclass Rangers in EVERYTHING, excluding Condition Damage

Well I sure haven’t seen that. In fact when I see a warrior and ranger match up I expect the ranger to win, for myself especially. Then again that is personal experience, but just saying. Few warriors beat me.

Chopps.5047:

Shaidan.1503:

I still enjoy Ranger, but some of the claims you see on the forums have some truth in them. We do have some things that could use attention and I’m still standing that in time it will be done. We’re a jack of all trades class where we can really do anything, but we are not overly amazing at anything. Most of what you will find are BM bunker builds, a trap build, and the occasional berserker glass cannon. We don’t presently have a lot of effective build variety however you can still adapt and succeed with a Ranger, or shamelessly complain as others do. Your best bet is to create both and give them a go for a few levels and see what feels the best to you. If Ranger is a class you truly enjoy you will adapt to play how it is designed presently working through the flaws.

I respectfully disagree; I’ve found more useful builds than just three. And I think rangers are overly amazing at evasion, actually, as well as mobility. I’m going to take another break from the forums and get a video up very soon. I promise I will show very unique and special things that only rangers can do. This includes an explanation of the stealth trolling rangers have been doing in dubs (makes people claim “hax” and is loads of fun harassment strategty). Think more creatively about how you can combine abilities and maybe you’ll get some of this cheese in before I make it public, which is something I feel like I must do to try and repell the beliefs people have ingrained about this class.

Looking forward to the vid Chopps. I kinda wanna make one too but I’m so lazy.

Jay.3284:

Jazenn.7526:

Jay.3284:

Daecollo.9578:

Thanks for proving my point, you bolded exactly what I said, a Warrior has to sacrifice an offhand, and 20 points in one tree to get something a ranger does not, this leaves the warrior at a statistic disadvantage, those 20 points could be increasing his critical damage, or critical chance, or giving him condition damage, and this is just one example.

A Warrior has to give up things, while a ranger can do all that while giving up almost nothing.

No warrior would “just” put 20 points in vitality just to get Warhorn, they would probably go full banners, just because they already statistically wasted 20 points to get a condition removal, they could add 10 more and get regenerating banners.

A Ranger does not really have to sacrifice anything to get things, they were “made” to be a red mage, and a warrior sacrifices his main thing “damage.” to get that utility.

What…. To say No Warrior would use the Warhorn trait in dungeons is pure atrocity
On that case…

- For condition removals you have Healing Spring/Signet of Renewal/Brown Bear… OR Speccing 30 into Wilderness… (More than 20 tactics)Lengthy cooldowns (Have to stand in a Circle for one making that area into a target, For the active affect you need to be close to an alive pet, Kill-able + not always out)
- For vigour and dodging you need to spec into Wilderness, have Healing Spring (which is a target mark essentially) and have sword offhand to maximize your damage mitigation
- For a Ranger to actually truly benefit from their boons, they need to spec HEAVILY into Nature Magic for the duration…. IE a waste
- You need to spec into 2 TREES HEAVILY for a sizeble amount of condition damage for a Ranger

About the condition removal, the play-style of the ranger makes the condition removal easy when it comes to being close to the pet. We actually don’t have to spec heavy into anything, we get choice. Only five for the endurance regen. For vigor we can spec either wilderness or skirmishing. Boon duration isn’t too big for the ranger, speccing 10 into nature gets you +33% regen. With that much keeping perma fury between you and pet and RaO is easy. You don’t have to spec for the condition damage stat, most of your stats will come from gear. In that logic(as well as your boon duration logic), then any class has to spec heavily for stats.

You do realize JUST 20 in tactics give a Warrior EXTRA onto what he has? You really don’t need 20 in tactics…
- To have better condition removals than Rangers
- To have better damage mitigation
- To have better boon duration/boon applications

I disagree. Point blank. Not about the trait but just claiming the warrior can outclass the ranger in everything.

Jay.3284:

Daecollo.9578:

Thanks for proving my point, you bolded exactly what I said, a Warrior has to sacrifice an offhand, and 20 points in one tree to get something a ranger does not, this leaves the warrior at a statistic disadvantage, those 20 points could be increasing his critical damage, or critical chance, or giving him condition damage, and this is just one example.

A Warrior has to give up things, while a ranger can do all that while giving up almost nothing.

No warrior would “just” put 20 points in vitality just to get Warhorn, they would probably go full banners, just because they already statistically wasted 20 points to get a condition removal, they could add 10 more and get regenerating banners.

A Ranger does not really have to sacrifice anything to get things, they were “made” to be a red mage, and a warrior sacrifices his main thing “damage.” to get that utility.

What…. To say No Warrior would use the Warhorn trait in dungeons is pure atrocity
On that case…

- For condition removals you have Healing Spring/Signet of Renewal/Brown Bear… OR Speccing 30 into Wilderness… (More than 20 tactics)Lengthy cooldowns (Have to stand in a Circle for one making that area into a target, For the active affect you need to be close to an alive pet, Kill-able + not always out)
- For vigour and dodging you need to spec into Wilderness, have Healing Spring (which is a target mark essentially) and have sword offhand to maximize your damage mitigation
- For a Ranger to actually truly benefit from their boons, they need to spec HEAVILY into Nature Magic for the duration…. IE a waste
- You need to spec into 2 TREES HEAVILY for a sizeble amount of condition damage for a Ranger

About the condition removal, the play-style of the ranger makes the condition removal easy when it comes to being close to the pet. We actually don’t have to spec heavy into anything, we get choice. Only five for the endurance regen. For vigor we can spec either wilderness or skirmishing. Boon duration isn’t too big for the ranger, speccing 10 into nature gets you +33% regen. With that much keeping perma fury between you and pet and RaO is easy. You don’t have to spec for the condition damage stat, most of your stats will come from gear. In that logic(as well as your boon duration logic), then any class has to spec heavily for stats.

SilverWF.4789:

What about press ‘K’, look at the ‘Vitality’ string and multiply that number by 10?

Lol, seems legit. But yea seriously guys, just do this.