Guild Wars 2

Agadar.4931:

I have hundreds of hours invested in this game, most of which on my ranger.

I think I know a deal more about how the ranger functions in practice than the two guys in charge of class balancing.

And I am not the only ranger who does.

Good for you. I have logged hundreds of hours as well, but still won’t match the credibility and knowledge of those who created and work for a living on the game. Despite what you think, logic would incline me to think otherwise. Is it really only two people who create and modify all of class balance though? I find it hard to believe.

Agadar.4931:

“The point is that our opinions on this class are not accurate anyway, since we don’t do anywhere near the testing A-net does.”

The notion that you believe that the entire ranger community as a whole does less testing than those two guys over at Anet is hilarious.

I was referring to me and who I was talking to(but I would definitely include you), I never said the entire ranger community. Obviously a large number of people would attempt to test certain things, so bulk-wise, of course the research is greater. The quality however, is obviously not, or else they would be listening to us. I know some posts on the forums contain very useful information, for instance I believe Ursan (think it was him) put forth interesting information about weapons a while back. Despite what we like to think, we are not enough to give more serious and quality research than the professionals who get paid to, due to credibility and knowledge. If you think you know more about the game, or even the ranger class, than A-net, lol well I’ll to tell you no, you don’t. We can definitely try to contribute though.

I have never seen some legitimate “player research” (this includes hard numbers, many trials, many variables, and intense explanation) detailing the balance of each class in relation to one another, specifically ranger and necro. I think it is safe to assume A-net knows what they are doing. There is a reason the game is the way it is today, and a reason we don’t hit 10k and have perma-stow on pets, it isn’t their fault if people don’t use the class the way intended. If you can do better, design your own game and do so. They haven’t done a perfect job, but the game is amazingly good, much better than the suggestion/speculation/rage on the ranger forums would have, at least (once again), in my opinon.

Lol, I do find these forums as hilarious as you find me though.

wolfyrik.2017:

Jazenn.7526:

Well the profession isn’t your assumed concept. Its tragic that so many people’s view of what they wanted in a ranger hasn’t come to pass. Honestly, A-net’s ranger wasn’t what I expected either, I just happen to enjoy it though. All I can suggest is re-roll, because the pets are here to stay. And on traits and pets: you get what you put in. You honestly don’t have to spec the class mechanic to be able to use them, they will just be weaker. This applies to all professions. I would assume the pet is more integral to the class than with others such as warrior and guardian, but then again I haven’t played those nearly as much, so I won’t. It sucks to see so many disappointed.

Well exactly, that the problem. They are weaker, so much weaker that unless you provide undivided attention and micromanagement, they will die in any significant encounter. Since the pet is a mandetory combat feature, that means you lose a lot of dps and take more damage. Speccing into beast mastery really is the only option in too many game modes.

You also misunderstood my post. I wasn’t expecting to play without pets, quite the contrary, I was looking forward to fern hounds in particular. My post was mostly in response to your question of why not reroll to another class?
My problem is the amount of time and effort you have to invest in them, whether you want to or not.
Before I picked up the game, I had no idea that pets would be just so unbelieavbly bad. This dissapointment only increasde on realising that there was no way to avoid using them in every situation. This is the only pet race in any game I’ve played (I’ve been gaming since the acorn electron, no not many pet games in those days. Around none I’d say) where the pet was a mandetory, permenant feature that you have to specc into to make them even remotely viable at the expense of other class abilities.

In most games, speccing into pets or using them at all is a choice. And a choice I usually like making. In GW2 it’s a chore. I honestly believe that this would be massively alleviated by allowing people, either temporarily or permenantly, to stow their pets in exchange for increased stats.
Too much AoE in a drawn-out fight , stow pet. Release pet when AoE dies down.
Have to make way across a lot of terrain but don’t want your pet to attack or agro every single mob on your path, stow pet safe in the knowledge that it wont come out if you get hit by a random mob or fall and take a slight injury.
etc.

It would eliminate so many of the pets hinderences in one stroke, without harming the class or Anet’s concept.

Well this is where we disagree. I do not think the pets are bad or weak, even with no traits. If you don’t invest at all in them, don’t expect them to do much lol. At the same time, they still will attack and give you an extra utility skill, as well as take mob attention away from you at times. The skills that affect it can still make them somewhat useful. I spec 15 points into BM and my build relies more than 50% on my pet hitting. I don’t know my success rate but I definitely win more than I lose.

On other topics, its too bad that you don’t like A-net’s ranger, like I said before, it’s a tragedy. I on the other hand applaud them for encouraging diversity from traditional MMO’s with the class mechanics, causing each class to play differently even among builds, for instance guardian tank is much different from ranger tank. It isn’t like other games, and I like that.

On pet-stow, I don’t agree with some kind of stat boost for perma-stow. If you want to perma-stow for a damage boost, I will still recommend re-rolling. If you want to play with pets, good, you are smart and doing what should be done to succeed. If not, re-roll. As I have said before, the successful ranger use the pet as a supplement to their build, the ragers who can’t find enough success for satisfaction don’t. On temporary stow, we already have this. When they come out as you take damage, the game is giving you an advantage and taking away the micro-management you so desperately hate in that you don’t have to waste time clicking to activate the pet, since the pet buttons are too far and too complicated to use for some, apparently. My suggestion is that if you don’t want them out, stay out of combat. If they are causing you to die from coming out to protect you when you aggro a mob and fail to avoid getting hit (even though passive and f3 are still available) or if they come out when you fall, don’t fall or get hit in the first place. And a stow option during a fight would be ridiculous, its basically invulnerability at will for the pet.

Levetty.1279:

Jazenn.7526:

Agadar.4931:

Jazenn.7526:

Boomstin.3460:

Chopps.5047:

Agadar.4931:

You’re walking away? Good. Finally, we, the people who realize that the class is bad and keeps on getting worse, can continue our discussions without you.

Good, I’m glad. ANET wouldn’t listen to you anyways (because they’re professionals and you’re just some stranger writing on some forum no one cares about but us).

Quote from a dev months back I do still believe ranger is the profession in most need of improvement after this patch and we will continue to make those improvements.

Sorry but even the devs disagree with you.

As they have continued to make those improvements, the ranger is no longer the most in need of improvement. Engi and Necro are the most in need, in my opinion.

Necros more in need of improvements than the ranger?

Nice opinion. If only you were right.

Rangers more in need of improvements than the Necro?

Nice opinion. If only you were right.

Lol?

It is. For one Necros unique mechanic provides survivability and some useful stance dancing builds whereas Ranger’s unique mechanic is nothing but a detriment so far causing us to have lower damage and stuff like blast finishers, condition removal and damage tied to a buggy npc that likes to die.

Two Necro can provides tons of support through wells and condition control, Rangers have Call of the Wild and maybe a pets F2 ability with a 3 second cast time to apply 1 boon, if the Ranger can keep it alive.

Three, even though Necro is meant to be the stay in place attrition class they have access to perma swiftness and the same speed increase signet as Ranger allowing them to be much more mobile.

Ranger traits are a much bigger mess then Necros and we have much worse stun breakers.

It isn’t. We have excellent survivability in our HP/BM builds, with insane damage from the pets (mine has hit as high as 8k, some say they can reach 16k), fun trap/condition builds, shortbow/longbow/greatsword each have builds built around the weapon, not to mention far more numerous options with utility, and so many finishers with decent combo fields(HS the best), while necro has what most of them deem simply an extra health bar with subpar condition damage and inneffective traits/builds whether it comes to minions/siphon/DS, whatever, pigeonholed into condition damage( not my opinions, but thats some complaints I hear from necros.)

Two rangers can provide tons of support through spirits, traps/combo fields, aoe boons from horn/pets, and aoe immobilizes. Necros have only 5 second wells and condition control, if they last long enough for conditions to matter.

The have acess to perma swiftness when they don’t need it since they aren’t a mobile class, while rangers have signet, perma swiftness from spirit(even excluding all other forms of swiftness), and have mobility in the many evades and vigor and movement skills. I often outrun teammates or catch up to opponents even when using melee, simply with signet and swoop(on cd reduction).

The point is that our opinions on this class are not accurate anyway, since we don’t do anywhere near the testing A-net does. I claimed necros and engis needed more help out of pure opinion, no factual testing to back this up. I think this because I see them underplayed, and when I played as and against them, I felt like they were worse as a class. We can debate, but simply saying what I said was a wrong opinion does nothing at all. Lol I will explain my opinion if asked though.

Eurantien.4632:

I have to relearn how to play ranger now. This sucks.

Lol, can’t tell if trolling or just raging?

Agadar.4931:

It’s the most requested thing in the entire game.

I’m pretty sure Anet is aware of this, unless they are as ignorant of their community as I fear they are.

They are probably aware, they just don’t care about it. It’s too trivial and there are more important things to do most likely. Here’s a substitute fix for OP’s problems, may not work as well as perma-stow, but might help:

Stow your pet after leaving combat, stow it BEFORE you reach aggro range of an NPC. Then avoid combat yourself. If you don’t want the pet to come out and aggro an NPC that you already aggro’d into damaging you, then try to improve evasion. If you choose to run instead of defeating the NPC you aggro’d, then continue to run and press f3 to get the pet to stop attacking the NPC you aggro’d. Run until you reach a safe spot, since it is fairly easy to run away from mobs anyway. In jumping puzzles, stow your pet before beginning. Avoid falling and taking damage that will then cause your pet to come out. If you fail and cause your pet to come out, then stay still and wait for about 5 seconds and wait for your hp to regen. Then stow your pet again, and resume the jumping puzzle, except this time without failing.

Agadar.4931:

Jazenn.7526:

Boomstin.3460:

Chopps.5047:

Agadar.4931:

You’re walking away? Good. Finally, we, the people who realize that the class is bad and keeps on getting worse, can continue our discussions without you.

Good, I’m glad. ANET wouldn’t listen to you anyways (because they’re professionals and you’re just some stranger writing on some forum no one cares about but us).

Quote from a dev months back I do still believe ranger is the profession in most need of improvement after this patch and we will continue to make those improvements.

Sorry but even the devs disagree with you.

As they have continued to make those improvements, the ranger is no longer the most in need of improvement. Engi and Necro are the most in need, in my opinion.

Necros more in need of improvements than the ranger?

Nice opinion. If only you were right.

Rangers more in need of improvements than the Necro?

Nice opinion. If only you were right.

Lol?

You should report the bug. I haven’t experienced this, I tested it out and mine lasted 18(my pet’s actually lasted even longer for some reason). I only tried it 3 times in a row though.

Boomstin.3460:

Chopps.5047:

Agadar.4931:

You’re walking away? Good. Finally, we, the people who realize that the class is bad and keeps on getting worse, can continue our discussions without you.

Good, I’m glad. ANET wouldn’t listen to you anyways (because they’re professionals and you’re just some stranger writing on some forum no one cares about but us).

Quote from a dev months back I do still believe ranger is the profession in most need of improvement after this patch and we will continue to make those improvements.

Sorry but even the devs disagree with you.

As they have continued to make those improvements, the ranger is no longer the most in need of improvement. Engi and Necro are the most in need, in my opinion.

Chopps.5047:

Agadar.4931:

You’re walking away? Good. Finally, we, the people who realize that the class is bad and keeps on getting worse, can continue our discussions without you.

Good, I’m glad. ANET wouldn’t listen to you anyways (because they’re professionals and you’re just some stranger writing on some forum no one cares about but us).

Have to agree with you 100% Chopps. I’ll keep posting though and try to get constructive and helpful information on the forums. There will always be ragers. Regardless of the status of the profession, the game, the economy, the nation, all of existence, there will be ragers lol.

Ryoki Hokishami.2756:

Jazenn.7526:

BroScientist.9875:

Agadar.4931:

BroScientist.9875:

Well, here’s to another month of anticipation waiting for those “significant ranger improvements” we were promised oh so many months ago..

He never said ‘significant improvements’. He said ‘significant changes’.

Pet’s abilities no longer being reset upon swapping it is one of the first changes.

Prepare for many more like it.

JonPeters.5630:

There are some bugs being fixed and quality of life improvements coming in the next patch, as well as some other significant ranger improvements. I would Literally tell you but I think it would be considered a bit of a spoiler so you will have to be patient.

Jon

What came out of the patch he was talking about? Arrow speed, running speed, and pet pathing? For me, those were definitely quality of life improvements.

EDIT:The pet one and running speed being significant.

The arrow speed one helped Longbow a lot when it happened, to. It made it semi-usable.

That’s great. I don’t like Longbow much so I only said that because I don’t use it enough to know a big difference.

Valroth.7138:

Entangle + Drake F2 might work for a nice gimmicky kill in pvp.

I agree on this strategy’s effectiveness. It wouldn’t be gimpy though, just smart. Trying drakes out I realized the f2 and tailswipe are both slow, but some improvisation could help this. River drake still hits the hardest I believe, and tailswipe still gets that blast finisher. Hmm it’s tough to leave my cats though, they still hit harder with their precision. Hard to choose, maybe one of each lol.

Solandri.9640:

Jazenn.7526:

In the case of stat allocation, abilities, health, etc., the ranger and pet are two different character units.

No, their stats are extensions of the same unit. They (ranger+pet) just have more stats than the other classes (like thieves have an initiative bar and warriors have an adrenaline bar). You can even modify the “pet’s” stats by adding or removing points to the ranger’s Beastmastery skill. They are one unit.

I already said they share the same traits. Read the whole post. But if you want to insist they are the same and have higher stats combined than any other class, then why would consumables and rune buffs be fair? Apparently the ranger class already has more stats than anyone else. Also, I don’t understand your comparison of warrior and thief mechanics. I know they have those, but initiative and adrenaline bar don’t have stats, so I don’t know how that applies.

Its not really a bug, more like a fix. Now you have to wait the amount of time the skill said you had to in the first place. Yes it is a nerf, but not really undeserved.

BroScientist.9875:

Agadar.4931:

BroScientist.9875:

Well, here’s to another month of anticipation waiting for those “significant ranger improvements” we were promised oh so many months ago..

He never said ‘significant improvements’. He said ‘significant changes’.

Pet’s abilities no longer being reset upon swapping it is one of the first changes.

Prepare for many more like it.

JonPeters.5630:

There are some bugs being fixed and quality of life improvements coming in the next patch, as well as some other significant ranger improvements. I would Literally tell you but I think it would be considered a bit of a spoiler so you will have to be patient.

Jon

What came out of the patch he was talking about? Arrow speed, running speed, and pet pathing? For me, those were definitely quality of life improvements.

EDIT:The pet one and running speed being significant.

Substance E.4852:

Saweth You Him.9047:

How much hp does entangle have? I think I’d still rather use take root over entangle. 3 second invulnerability and 4 seed turrets are too good to pass up. 3 seconds where your pet is still attacking your target and your active conditions are still eating away at them.

I have actually been stomped while in a take root so I wouldn’t rely on the “invulnerable” perk too much. The other major problem with entangle is that it stops working if they leave the vines which means if they can teleport or get hit with knock-backs/pulls they are freed from the effect entirely.

It’s pretty good in pve assuming CC isn’t being thrown around but it’s not worth passing RaO over in pvp even with this fix.

That is true, but it is debatable on whether to use it or not. Many people including me do and I find it invaluable to my build. I don’t expect it to last the full 20 seconds, but honestly even getting 5 is more than enough for me. Especially with a party.

wolfyrik.2017:

Ashelotte.7195:

Can someone please explain this to me as I’ve seen it a lot on this thread?
I’ve seen a lot of people saying they don’t want their pet out at all and instead want increased damage, but to me pets are a part of the class that you have to learn to work around. So when people say they don’t want pets at all it kinda seems like they are trying to change the class into something that it’s not. That’s just the impression I’m getting anyway.
Rangers have both melee and ranged options so why not opt for a Warrior or Thief. They both have melee and ranged from what I’ve heard. So why play a class with a mechanic you dislike instead of going to another class that you might like better?
I’m not trying to insult anyone or start an arguement, I’m just curious as to why. I see it being said a lot and I can never understand it. I can understand stowing your pet to skip mobs or something, but it seems like most people just don’t want a pet at all.

Because people like the possibilities and style of the Ranger. They like the name, the nature attachment, the weapon styles and combinations. Some people think of characters like Aragorn, are inspired by them and enjot their theme. They just don’t like to be reliant on an npc which hinders as often as it helps and they have very, very little control over.
A skill mechanic which has even less uitility or survival without sacrificing traits and utility slots and therfore other build possibilities. Most classes get to choose how and when they use their unique mechanic or skill for it.
Rangers are forced to use it at all times, even when it’s a massive inconvenience, and divide their combat between their own survival and the survival of this half/half ball and chain. What’s more, other classes can choose whether or not to skill into and trait their class mechanic or how they go about it. In many cases improvements for the mechanic are included in other skills and trait lines.
Rangers are the only class which are forced to squander 15 trait points at the very least, into a mechanic specific trait-line if they want to make sure that their mandetory, unavoidable mechanic is at least viable.

Having a stowed pet/ stat boost mechanic would provided rangers with the choice that other classes already enjoy, throughout the entire game.

Well the profession isn’t your assumed concept. Its tragic that so many people’s view of what they wanted in a ranger hasn’t come to pass. Honestly, A-net’s ranger wasn’t what I expected either, I just happen to enjoy it though. All I can suggest is re-roll, because the pets are here to stay. And on traits and pets: you get what you put in. You honestly don’t have to spec the class mechanic to be able to use them, they will just be weaker. This applies to all professions. I would assume the pet is more integral to the class than with others such as warrior and guardian, but then again I haven’t played those nearly as much, so I won’t. It sucks to see so many disappointed.

Electro.4173:

The overall survival “group” of utilities is sort of wierd, yes. There’s no real theme to them, you have one thats sort of real life “survival” oriented ability (sharpening stone), a speed boost, something thats more like a nature-based trap, and an ability that reflects a sort of mix of nature and agility.

I dunno, maybe the “theme” is supposed to be nature in general, with stones being a natural thing as opposed to a metal sharpening tool or something, Zephyr being some sort of wind channeling ability (based mostly on the name and sound effect), and Muddy Terrain and Lightning Reflexes utilizing natural elements.

If thats the case though, the name Survival doesn’t really make much sense, and the trait would fit better in Nature Magic.

As for traps… I don’t really have the problems everyone else seems to with traps in Skirmishing. Yes, traps would be something a real life hunter would use to survive, but they also fit skirmishing as well, since they’d fit in with the idea of a short fight (skirmish) and then a retreat. And with regards to the Condition Damage thing… you see that all the time with traits not matching perfectly, its not unusual and I don’t feel its a requirement that traits always match the stat boosts given. And if you make that argument I’d think that they’d fit even better in Marksmanship, considering that all 4 traps would be boosted by Condition Duration but only 3/4 are boosted by Condition Damage.

Lightning Reflexes is an evade that helps you survive, and muddy terrain is a slow/stop which helps you get away and survive. The other two I think might be oriented towards attrition builds, with a theme of survive and eventually get them downed. Sharpening stone would definitely match with this, and it would explain the toughness(survive) and condition damage(attrition). Quickening Zephyr, however, does not match. I would like to think of it as a bonus for survival builds, in order to give them SOME ability to burst. The traitline as a whole however is very survival oriented, so it matches. I can see how traps would match this trait line though, there just isn’t much space for them.

Solandri.9640:

Jazenn.7526:

Solandri.9640:

If you really want to insist the ranger and pet are two separate units, then the pet should not disappear when the ranger is defeated. It should stick around and continue to fight until it too is dead. And if it happens to win, it should be able to revive the ranger.

After all, they are two separate units. Right?

Well that would be OP, it already does that on downed state.

You cannot simultaneously argue that the ranger and pet are separate units in one case, while arguing that they should be treated as one unit in another. That’s self-contradictory.

The people here are arguing the game treats the pet and ranger as one unit in both these cases, and the game mechanics need to be adjusted to better reflect this.

Actually I can, if they are two separate cases. In the case of the ranger profession as a whole(traits included), the ranger and pet are a unit that work together. In the case of stat allocation, abilities, health, etc., the ranger and pet are two different character units.

I realize what you are arguing, I am arguing against that.

So will Drake pets work properly now? Gonna test this.

Entangle gets its full damage? Nice, I’m not sure just how big this is though.

Not bad.

Traps do seem out of place, being condition based skills in a crit based traitline. But the survival skills do belong in the survival traitline, hence the name. Even though I would say 2 of the skills are offensive(QZ and SS), I still think they belong where they are(LR and MT especially). Maybe if the trait stats were flipped around a bit… idk seems tricky to me, i’m not sure what I would change it too except for traps into probably survival.

slingblade.1437:

Jazenn.7526:

slingblade.1437:

Jazenn.7526:

I’m saying that the pet has nothing to do with our stats. They are there to supplement our damage, yes, but they don’t take our stats, they have separate stats of their own. We are not one “unit”. The ranger is a unit with its stats, and a pet is a unit with its stats. When the ranger is buffed, the ranger is buffed 100%. When the pet is buffed, the pet is buffed 100%. Where does it say that stats for a ranger and pet are divided from only one set of stats?

I’m pretty sure I read on this forum that Anet confirmed that a percentage of a Ranger’s damage is routed through the pet. Some have said it’s 40%.

So, when a pet dies, the theory goes, the Ranger loses 40% of his potential damage. It’s like having some debilitating condition stacked on you, even if you’re completely condition free. Couple that with the already-poor pet AI and you’ve got a class that rarely is able to live up to the potential it has on paper.

Show me the quote from A-net, and I’ll believe you. You are thinking of pets in the wrong way lol.

So, put the pet on passive and don’t use F2 at all. Where, under this circumstance, would you rank a Ranger’s damage output compared to the other classes?

Hmm, I can’t be certain because I haven’t extensively played all classes, but just based on quick play as far as I know( such as autoattack and highest hitting skill), I’d say more than engi (outside the 100nade gimmick), at or above necro depending on build, slightly less if not equal in some instances to guardian, mesmer, and ele, and less than warriors and thieves. So out of 8 professions, probably 5-6 in most cases.

Victory.2879:

Quote: You think of pets are taking away your damage. Well they are actually supplementing your damage, taking target off of you, essentially being an extra health bar, giving you extra utility, rezzing, buffing, and tanking.

Not in wvw. supplementing damage? doesn’t work from on top of walls or firing up at walls (unless you use lots of slots for a buggy guard. Taking target off me? not very likely, extra HP bar? How does that work? I don’t take damage until my pet’s HP bar is gone? Love to see how having a pet is ‘an extra hp bar’ in wvw- I can see what you are trying to say for basic pve, try it in any dungeon without micro managing your pet and see how long that hp bar lasts, rezzing, only if you have equipped the pet before battle commences or can take the time to swop off cooldown in the middle of a battle, buffs generally take so long to cast the fight is over by the time the pet STOPS MOVING, begins 3 second cast time, finally finishes, etc and yes they can tank in map pve but against anything that matters they are about as good as tanking as a 800 toughness necro who uses no skills at all.

Oh, and run into aoe fields and die or be crippled or fail to recall or run back when you try, and have a stupidly long cool down if dead and for swopping.

If they want to make pets useful, then eliminate the swopping time and down time on death- that would mean that we could actually fit into ANet’s definition of the ranger class of ALWAYS having a pet with them.

Pets get no benefit from your gears- maybe if they want us to utilise pets properly, they should look at the pet system in Rappelz and take a few pointers from that- like pets being able to equip weap/armor and affect the stats, pets that heal/buff effectively, etc.

Pets are pathetic at hitting anything that moves, especially with the F2 fail skill- I’m going to root a player with a 3 second cast time skill that stops the pet moving, whilst chasing said player? Ranged pets miss so often it’s not even funny. Want to make them miss? Step left one step. Miss. Step left. Miss. The only ‘ranged’ pets that work are birds, and they are ranged melee meaning they run through all that rubbish to reach the target (if they make it after being crippled, etc).

Try it. Get a ranger friend to equip a pet, and then duel him with the ranged pet trying to hit you

It’s been stated that pets are 30-40% of your damage, so they need to either fix pets so they work in dungeons/wvw/fractals or incorporate the ‘no pet, automatic +20% damage to BOW skills’.

Do I hate the mechanics of the class? Yes. Do I still play it more than any other class. yes. Do i wish they would fix the many problems. yes.

It does supplement damage despite not hitting from the top of a wall. Most skills don’t hit from the top of a wall. Melee does not hit from the top of a wall. My pet’s 8k was a nice supplement to my damage, I don’t know what you call that. There are skills that let you utilize a pets HP to your advantage and they stay alive on down. Not an actual health bar, but can be used as a shield. If you don’t manage your pet, expect it to die. If you can’t last long enough to get buffed I dont know what to say to you. Try buffing initially? With the right traits they can be tankier than some players. When I had my pet fully specced I witnessed someone attacking it and it was just healing away all the damage, they never got it past half health.

Why would you run into aoe? I agree they are an issue when it comes to pets, one of the few legitimate gripes. Still, not that bad. Cooldowns shouldn’t be reduced because you should be keeping your pet alive anyway, if it dies you get a penalty, not just another pet. All class mechanics have cooldowns.

Pets shouldn’t get benefit from our gear. They aren’t wearing our gear. No minions in the game receive stats based on the player’s. My pet hits high and often, maybe you should work on your strategy more. That’s based on your experience not everyone has that.

Find the quotes that say rangers have nerfed stats because they have pets. Again, if you want no pet and 10k hits, re-roll warrior.

I would answer no, yes, and yes(though not that many problems honestly).

EDIT: I agree the class is not perfect. The pet could definitely be improved option-wise. But it is far from broken.

Flubble.8093:

history doesn’t mean anything, you look at A-nets definition of a ranger which is this:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

“Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”

Well, they have more bow ability than any other class, they can do considerable damage from distance with the 2 skill alone on longbow (downing someone at 1500 is OP, I wouldn’t expect to do it), people use traps, spirits, and pets effectively enough to win, and I have a strategy in my build against each class. Yep, matches up just about right. Isn’t perfect, but it’s not way off.

slingblade.1437:

Jazenn.7526:

I’m saying that the pet has nothing to do with our stats. They are there to supplement our damage, yes, but they don’t take our stats, they have separate stats of their own. We are not one “unit”. The ranger is a unit with its stats, and a pet is a unit with its stats. When the ranger is buffed, the ranger is buffed 100%. When the pet is buffed, the pet is buffed 100%. Where does it say that stats for a ranger and pet are divided from only one set of stats?

I’m pretty sure I read on this forum that Anet confirmed that a percentage of a Ranger’s damage is routed through the pet. Some have said it’s 40%.

So, when a pet dies, the theory goes, the Ranger loses 40% of his potential damage. It’s like having some debilitating condition stacked on you, even if you’re completely condition free. Couple that with the already-poor pet AI and you’ve got a class that rarely is able to live up to the potential it has on paper.

Show me the quote from A-net, and I’ll believe you. You are thinking of pets in the wrong way lol.

Solandri.9640:

If you really want to insist the ranger and pet are two separate units, then the pet should not disappear when the ranger is defeated. It should stick around and continue to fight until it too is dead. And if it happens to win, it should be able to revive the ranger.

After all, they are two separate units. Right?

Well that would be OP, it already does that on downed state.

Great video and great tips, I enjoyed it. I used spirits for a while, it’s nice to see someone else use them too, especially with success.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

@Jazenn.7526

Because it would add tactical and dynamic options. Its stupid to have half our dps be killable and not able to path properly. Giving us the option to fight without it wouldnt hurt anyone who likes pets, they can fight with them. And it allows those who hate pets to fight without them but still have the OPTION to whip it out. Its all about options chump.

I love options too, but there is a limit. If you want to perma-stow pet and hit 10k+, then re-roll into warrior, that’s always an option. It is an integral part of the profession design, it is the class mechanic, it is what makes rangers rangers. It ain’t goin away dude, but you can dream lol.

People keep assuming having a pet robs us of some stats. Where is this stated as fact?

No. You are two different characters that work together, having seperate stats. They do supplement your damage, yes, but they are are not part of your damage, they are their own damage. Just because we don’t hit like thieves and warriors doesn’t mean we are being leeched by pets.

You think of pets are taking away your damage. Well they are actually supplementing your damage, taking target off of you, essentially being an extra health bar, giving you extra utility, rezzing, buffing, and tanking.

The best rangers I know recognize and utilize pets. The frustrated ragers are the ones who don’t and then blame the pets. Lol correlation maybe?

By the way, I ain’t a chump.

Love my Zho’s Armor, got a ninja-like look, which I tried to go for with ceremonial weapons. The abilities remind me of ninja styles from old kungkittenmovies. Bear style!

jkctmc.8754:

I almost want to reroll my Ranger, and Guardian, and make them Asuran for Pain Inverter.

An ability on such a short cooldown that can do over 6000 damage, or at worst stop someone from attacking you for 5 seconds is huge.

I know right. They worked so hard at making racial skills suck for some reason, then neglected to nerf this one.

Flubble.8093:

history doesn’t mean anything, you look at A-nets definition of a ranger which is this:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/ranger/

“Rangers rely on a keen eye, a steady hand, and the power of nature itself. Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows. With traps, nature spirits, and a stable of loyal pets at their command, rangers can adapt to any situation.”

I think A-net did a good job keeping to that definition, now that I look at it.

GUFF.5692:

I prefer the horn for my offhand but the dagger #5 does have a good duration for it’s cripple. This helps when a target is just out of range for you to keep a target snared with sword or your pet is down or out of position. Helps you keep dps up more often on target. That’s the key benefit when running a power/crit build. You basically ignore any of the condition damage aspects as power/crit builds work better when you don’t try to hybrid them, at least for ranger anyways.

He explained the reason for using dagger pretty well. The great cripple. Also the poison is always useful as an anit-heal. Warhorn might be a better choice in a sword crit build because of fury and big damage with birds, as well as swiftness which could substitute cripple. If running sword I would try to get plenty of slows and stops though.

No, you shouldn’t expect anything besides what they tell you, and even then don’t get your hopes up. There won’t be some magical fix-all patch, change in this game is gradual for the most part, especially with professions since balance is fragile.

NemesiS.6749:

people that say rangers are fine either haven’t play rangers or if they have is mostly farming and PvE. Pets don’t hit targets, die fast and aggro every mob because they dont stay close to you, in other words there useless. We have entire abilities and traits completely useless, have you seen any ranger using spirits? LOL, yea that is just to mention one and that is just the beginning.

Your generalization is wrong. I PvP and WvW with my ranger much more than PvE, and I think it’s fine. My pet hits high and often, stays alive, and when I don’t want to aggro, I put it on passive. We have traits and utility skill that need to be looked at, but we are far from alone on that as a profession.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Jazenn.7526:

Senri.6308:

Ranger class is fun to play, it will be 10x better if we could stow the pet permanently ( If we wanted ) which in return will give the Ranger a passive buff. Pets are cool, just not when doing Dungeons, WvW etc.

Maybe instead just add a button to permanently disable pets, and when you press it it deletes your character and brings you to the character creation screen with a warrior selected.

0/10 Too obvious

People should stop asking for it then.

I’m saying that the pet has nothing to do with our stats. They are there to supplement our damage, yes, but they don’t take our stats, they have separate stats of their own. We are not one “unit”. The ranger is a unit with its stats, and a pet is a unit with its stats. When the ranger is buffed, the ranger is buffed 100%. When the pet is buffed, the pet is buffed 100%. Where does it say that stats for a ranger and pet are divided from only one set of stats?

Senri.6308:

Ranger class is fun to play, it will be 10x better if we could stow the pet permanently ( If we wanted ) which in return will give the Ranger a passive buff. Pets are cool, just not when doing Dungeons, WvW etc.

Maybe instead just add a button to permanently disable pets, and when you press it it deletes your character and brings you to the character creation screen with a warrior selected.

I think you have a good build there. I like the concept and with spirits and healing spring it is definitely viable. I think the spirits you have chosen are great, however I agree with OGDeadHead, you may want to consider another instead of QZ, depending on how much you value burst over support, since the sun spirit can provide a blind and burn proc and the frost some damage and a chill. I wouldn’t recommend storm spirit because your build seems stationary without spirits unbound(thats okay though). If not another spirt, consider Lightning Reflexes for more dodge and another stun break. QZ will definitely give you more 1v1 ability though.

For your second pet I would recommend the Red Moa, the fury will be important for your sigil procs and valuable to teammates, as well as the aoe heal it has. I also recommend it because I think you should use this for your fury instead of warhorn. I think your secondary weapon set should be axe/axe, or you should at least consider it. As you said, it has a lot of projectile finishers, as well as the longest whirl finisher in the game(as far as I know) with whirling defense, which can put out damage and reflect projectiles. It trumps sword/horn defensive ability in that way, but also in that it is a less mobile weapon set, seeing as you won’t need horn’s swiftness to run away if you have stationary healing field and spirits.

Trait-wise, you may want to consider changing Carnivorous Appetite to something else, because the pets you are using won’t crit too much. Try Primal Reflexes, for more vigor and evading power. Your pet won’t be losing on much survivability, as it is already getting all the regen you are from fortifying bond, and are bulkier pets.

For runes, I’m not sure. It does give you a lot of boon duration, but if that’s what it takes to keep up constant regen and vigor, then take it. Otherwise, consider getting full Dwayna or Flock, since the 6 effect, will allow you to give a bit of extra healing support to allies, as well as them increasing your healing power by a bit.

For your dual weapon set, I’m not sure two chance proccing sigils work together. If they do, then keep them. If not, switch one to Sigil of Energy, giving more evade, or Leeching, for a little extra heal. I would recommend keeping the condition removal though.

Tell us how the build works out, I like it and I’m curious.

awe extender.1908:

So once again, like pets not getting buff from consumables, runes don’t enhance pets stats either!

These two profession shortcomings should at least give the ranger more power or stronger condition output.

But why does the numbers on damage button (F2) change when wearing armor compared to not having armor?

The ranger and the pet are two different characters in the game. They work together, however they are not the same units. Consumables and runes do not affect your pet, just as eating food and wearing clothes does not effect my pet dog. If you want to change your pets stats/abilities, trait for it, there is at least one trait in every line that benefits pets, so it shouldn’t be too much of an issue.

I can agree with all of these points. While I don’t consider the pet a burden, implementation of these suggestions would improve pet control even more. Good post.

Honestly, point 3 is the only viable complaint. The rest are player failures, whether it be lack of control, trying to skip, or inability to win against mobs. Even point 3 can be avoided with pet on passive, or a ranged pet, or a stowing before the issue (you automatically heal after fall damage so stowing quickly becomes available, not to mention the fact that you fell with the pet already stowed anyway).

I had those problems when I was new to the game. I don’t anymore. The buttons have never not worked for me. If I press f1 he attacks. If I press f3 he returns. If I press f2 the ability activates. If I press f4 the pet switches. Maybe your installation of the game failed to install certain files that controlled the pet, I don’t know. If you think its a true bug, vid or screenshot it and post in bug forums.

Ghost Wolf.3479:

So I have read the top threads for Ranger and it seems like most of them are rants of the ranger just being useless. I don’t know wether to give up hope or just wait. I guess we will see tonight. What are your guys thoughts on patch I still haven’t heard any definit news.

I wouldn’t expect much, but you maybe you can just play your ranger, that might just be possible. Lol. Don’t base your satisfaction on other people’s opinions and experience. The forums should encourage and help you, not make you want to quit. Avoid posts of the latter.

Crap-talking, speculation, and hate aside, for the first time in at least a month, I had a great time in WvW, maybe the best time ever. Me and my guildies, KAIN, were actually able to get past the queue and get into CDBL. The fight there was epic, an HOURS long Garrison siege. Trebbings, tower siege, walls constantly down and repaired, wipes, pushes, golems, roaming, raiding, chokepoints, ganking, many many badges, it was all there today. Much kitten went down, and I would like to detail all of it, but I just want to give a hats off to both (really all three) sides in the fight. Gratz to CD for taking their garrison and keep, atm they still have em. Without many huge zergs, it took strategy, timing, and real skill to pull off victory in those last couple hours of fighting. I really enjoyed it, it gives me hope about WvW still being fun in the next few weeks, which is great because I play for fun first. Good luck in the coming days to all you guys, go KAIN!

While the pet should be an integral part to your playstyle and it is part of the profession, you are still the player, the actual ranger. You are a team and a unit, but you are still separate characters. We have our stats, they have theirs. It would be nice, but I don’t think it is necessary because it’s otherwise unfair to our stats. Concurring opinion, because I think it would add more management ability to the pet, which would be nice.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Jazenn.7526:

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

FlamemanPyro.8249:

Im a Ranger and proud of it.
I do extremely well in WvW and PvE. People can complain all they want but rangers are pretty legit. Sure the class could use some improvement, especially the pets, but most of the other classes do too.
Ive been lvl 80 for several months so im no noob to the class so I realize its strengths and weaknesses and still I love to play as a ranger.
Come on fellow rangers show some ranger pride.

Here is why you are a noob. You think ranger is fine, yet seems like thats all you have played. Ive played every class in this game and ranger is bottom of the ladder. Most other classes can do what ranger does but better. Pets need to be scrapped bad. Or atleast the option to not use one. I love my ranger, but I cant stand playing him. Try a rifle warrior or dps guardian sometime, or even a glass cannon necro, so many other classes are better than ranger that its not funny. Sure ranger has some good builds 1v1, traps and evasion tank, but other classes still do bunker or condi builds better. When the only class you play is ranger then you think ranger is fine. I play against GOOD players and I can assure you, ranger isnt.

Yea, I’m tired of the ranger hate. Lol, it’s like a broken record stuck repeating the worst part of a song. I am a proud ranger, love the class and enjoy my triumphs even more because of this.

Nothing wrong with loving the class, but turning a blind eye towards its issues is foolish. I hope anet does something about this, but until then, I personally cant stand my ranger even tho its my favorite class.

I am not turning a blind eye to issues, I am just accepting the fact that the game is dynamic and there will probably always be something to fix because it’s not perfect. At the moment, I am content and will play my ranger because I don’t think there are issues preventing me from doing so. Every class has their own complaints, it is just tiresome to see so much of ragequit and whining instead of useful or constructive conversation about the class.

Pets are our mechanic. They are not going to go just go away, why would we get the option to change our class mechanic? That doesn’t make sense, no class can get a damage boost and benefit for opting out of the class mechanic. You are the one turning a blind eye, in your case toward the merits, ability, and mechanic of the ranger class, of which I think the majority is beginning to recognize.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Kellnor.5428:

Trait Marksmen/Skirmishing/Wilderness Survival/Natural magic…. I run 20/30/10/10 and love it.

Honestly (as with any class) Ranger’s aren’t bad, players are bad. I’m not saying you’re a bad player in general, I’m just saying after 2 hours with it you aren’t a pro

Give it sometime. Rangers can be phenomenal once you learn how to work with it.

I am pro with it. And I agree rangers when I play them ARE bad. There is nothing a my ranger does better than any other class. Our best pvp builds are evasion tank and trap condi builds, thieves can do evasion+condis all in 1. Other classes do condis much better and more efficiently than ranger. Our power/crit builds suck, I can just go warrior and melt face on him easily. Our traits and utilities suck, pretty much the only cool thing about my ranger is the name.

There, fixed that.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

FlamemanPyro.8249:

Im a Ranger and proud of it.
I do extremely well in WvW and PvE. People can complain all they want but rangers are pretty legit. Sure the class could use some improvement, especially the pets, but most of the other classes do too.
Ive been lvl 80 for several months so im no noob to the class so I realize its strengths and weaknesses and still I love to play as a ranger.
Come on fellow rangers show some ranger pride.

Here is why you are a noob. You think ranger is fine, yet seems like thats all you have played. Ive played every class in this game and ranger is bottom of the ladder. Most other classes can do what ranger does but better. Pets need to be scrapped bad. Or atleast the option to not use one. I love my ranger, but I cant stand playing him. Try a rifle warrior or dps guardian sometime, or even a glass cannon necro, so many other classes are better than ranger that its not funny. Sure ranger has some good builds 1v1, traps and evasion tank, but other classes still do bunker or condi builds better. When the only class you play is ranger then you think ranger is fine. I play against GOOD players and I can assure you, ranger isnt.

Yea, I’m tired of the ranger hate. Lol, it’s like a broken record stuck repeating the worst part of a song. I am a proud ranger, love the class and enjoy my triumphs even more because of this.

Yes, you will be able to get kills. I run the build and WvW and get plenty. Your dps won’t be as good as it is in the beserker build (I use full clerics atm), but the most of your damage will come from your pet, hence it being called the B(east)M(aster) build. I use jaguar and jungle stalker as pets, and they can hit 2k easily, sometimes nearing 4k. Your real burst will be sicking your pet on your opponent.

Think of your pet as your mainhand weapon, especially in this build. It provides the best burst a ranger can get, no matter what the build really. Anything we do can be supplemented by a 4k hit from your pet. Some claim they can reach 16k damage in pet burst.

Lorelei.3918:

The Anti heal hurts more then you think, since Rangers are all about heals over time. Imagine how bad quickness nerfs Troll Unguent.

The thing is, since you use it in an offensive situation, you are less likely to heal during that 4 seconds anyways, since you are using it as a burst or stomp. It is easy to wait for your heal to finish or use QZ before hand. The skill doesn’t last very long at all so you wouldn’t lose out on an obscene amount of healing. Choosing to use the skill means you value the burst over the loss of regen/healing.

On my BM/power ranger I use melee, Sword/Dagger and Greatsword, and it works fine. Sword/dagger is not only strong on autoattack, but it comes with 3 extra evades, 2 extra poison skills that will let you outheal your opponent, and 2 sources of effective cripple to help your pet along with might stacking for it. Greatsword is a very defensive weapon that can still do adequate damage. It has an evade built into its autoattack, so it actually has more evade than a sword, just less controllable. It has good damage attacks in swoop and maul, swoop also being a leap finisher and an excellent space closer. It also has a 3 second block that can turn into a knockdown, and an interrupt that also gives your pet a damage boost. Using both of these weapon sets gives you two leap finishers during healing spring, which is an extra 4k health depending on healing power. This build does plenty of damage, with boosts I am able to get up to 3000 attack power with full clerics gear. The numbers might not look pretty, but they add up, seeing as they are direct and quick damage as compared to the time it takes conditions to finish out. You also get a chance to burst effectively.

Axe/Axe is another possibility in the power build that I haven’t tried really, its highlight being its ability to multitarget and Whirling Defense, which in a power build can get maybe 3k damage on a full channel.