Guild Wars 2

Black Powder + Steal/Signet/Shadowstep → Heartseeker → Backstab

This is a good alternative opening combo to the ones listed above. It puts you in Melee range, your target in a blind field, and the HS grants stealth at Melee so you can line up a Backstab.

You can precast Basilisk Venom for this combo to either guarantee the opening Backstab or force a stun break. Basi Venom will proc off the projectile from Black Powder.

Also, if you’re interested in watching top-tier S/P thief gameplay, Magic Tokers stream is a great source.

http://www.twitch.tv/magictoker

Streams pretty regularly, Rank 65 and as of this post ranked #1 on NA Team Q leaderboards.

Also, rap music. Lots of it.

I’ve recently made the switch from D/P Trickery to S/P Trickery, and it’s refreshing and fun. In some ways it’s stronger, but I do think that D/P burst is more reliable, especially against classes that run stability. However, S/P is much better for countering this AI spam meta we currently are in.

The Critical Haste trait is much more reliable than it used to be, and you can count on it proccing pretty regularly every 30 seconds with S/P. It synergizes well with the set, and is a great trait for getting that opening burst.

Keep an eye out for Stability, don’t dump PWs onto targets with it on unless you can Steal it or you need the evade frames.

Don’t forget that you can Steal/Infiltrator Sigent/Shadowstep during the stun cast of PW for mobility and more reliable stuns, and you can do so during the flurry to tack on more damage if they move away.

You’re gonna catch some hell from players complaining about skill spam from PW. Just a heads up.

I heard [MU] likes to do 30v15 GvG’s in their favor.

Discuss.

Chill by itself is fine. Chill when stacked with 3-4 other conditions is a nightmare.

Condi bombing and bursting is out of control, and needs to be fixed.

I think my favorite thing about Skyhammer is how you can’t dodge the cannon.

That was a nice touch. Really gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside when I try to contest points.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-s;4NKVP0h4oK-60;9;4J-J-T28;218;259A5-k6;26TsW6TsWNBGW0-w6;3j-61t1EZ34Ra6Z-870HV8aNX8a;9;9;9;9;9;54-6V

Pretty much Tarcis’ GS/LB sPvP build but with PvE equipment.

Some traits can be changed up due to preference, like 10 point Strength and 10 and 20 point Discipline. The others really make the build and should be left as is.

If you’re having trouble with survivability, swap out Frenzy for Endure Pain/Berserker Stance. I would leave Bulls Rush in, it’s very strong if used well, for offense and defense.

Use Pin Down for setting up 100blades, and be sure to land your Arcing Arrows as often as possible; it hits hard and makes up a good chunk of your damage if used properly. If you haven’t played a grenade engi, this might take some practice.

With all the zerkers gear, this is more of a high risk/high reward play style. If you prefer to play a bit more conservatively, throw some more soldiers gear on.

It’s never fun winning or losing by a landslide amount. Consider, however, that when the game becomes 4v5 or 3v5, the outcome is pretty decided. So, would it not behoove one to hasten the match, wasting less of your and everyone’s time?

I appreciate people who stick it out and still fight a losing battle; I am one of those players. But trying to win a match faster is not a bad thing.

Kenshin.6154:

John Corpening.9847:

Would you keep rank acquisition the same as it is now?

No, remove it as you planned originaly. At the moment it serves no purpose tbh. You can’t tell anything about the person. Rank point farming how should I put it… killed the value of rank. Like you can get r40+ players who have no idea how to win games or what they should be doing in a 5v5 match, cuz they have done nothing but farmed points on 1 map.

John Corpening.9847:

If not, what would you do to improve rank acquisition?

Rank should show your placement on the ladder. That way it would have some meaning at least. Even the finishers obtained before the update should get remove or disabled aswell. Give them titles so they can show they have been farming their kitten off.
I really think there is no middle ground here. If you want to give rank a meaning then you have to remove the current rank acqusition and the rewards (in this case rank finishers) tied with it. Sure it will make alot of farmers sad, but it would benefit spvp side of the game so much…

There is no benefit to removing the current rank grind system and finishers. Why not have them AND the ladder finishers when ladder is implemented? Sure, rank is not indicative of skill, and many players Skyhammer farmed, but what about the players who still want those finishers and played legit?

When the ladder finishers are released, I have a feeling the original rank finishers won’t be as special, which is fine. That’s not a reason to remove their acquisition. Players are sure to be more impressed by a top ladder rank finisher than the current shark/Phoenix finisher, because everyone will know that the ladder finisher was obtained more with skill than with time played.

They can even use the same finishers for ladder that are in for rank currently, like they said they would. Just make them a different color, maybe based on ladder season or something. Or, if it’s possible, give players a color slider function so they can personalize their ladder finishers.

I haven’t seen a really good reason to get rid of the current rank system. I think losing it will hurt more than it helps. I’m sure I could get my special bear and shark finisher through ladder play, but why can’t I also get the bear and shark finisher through time played? Just my thoughts.

Sanduskel.1850:

if you can’t contribute in large scale fights, you are doing something wrong. sorry to say that.

I can contribute to large scale fights, and do so consistently. But contributing comes in varying degrees. I personally find that picking off back liners and Cluster Bombing fire/water fields are the best uses for a thief in a WvW zerg. Having said that, I think 9 out of 10 WvW commanders would prefer having another hammer warrior/guardian over a thief.

Why is the Infusion of Shadow change necessary?

Meta sPvP thieves don’t spend a single trait point in Shadow Arts, and I don’t see that changing as long as conquest is our only game mode.

Thieves are hardly a worthy mention in WvW, where heavy armor front liners and heavy hitting AoE back liners steal the spotlight. Thieves only really shine in small encounters, which really don’t affect PPT much.

Perma-stealth builds are annoying to fight, sure, but then so are all classes when specced correctly. I get the feeling that is change is a response to 1v1 complaints in WvW, which is ridiculous.

More and more I regret rolling a stealth-reliant class in this game. I kinda remember an ANET post saying something like boosting Thief base skill damage to make them less reliant on Berserker stats to deal decent damage. Where has that idea gone?

Crucify.1649:

uh i am nit gud wit thes stuf but bye forever t6 t7 t8 t9 t10 t11 meow

You will be missed Initialise. Thanks for all the cross-server fight clubs you organized, and thanks to [EDGE] for being cool dudes and great players. Good duels all around. Hope I run into again soon.

There is fun to be had in sPvP.

IGN: Lynna Sora (Blast Liftlots, Clownshooz)
Main: Thief, Warrior
Alt: Engineer, Elementalist
Account: JohnnyZero.5619
Availability: EST, evenings and weekends
Current Rank: 30
Level of Desire: Active tourny, possibly PvP guild
NA

Rangers. I’m not very familiar with the class, but they seem to have insane toughness and healing, even when I strip their boons regularly. Guardians and Ele’s aren’t nearly as much trouble as a well played bunker ranger.

Condi removal is an issue for thieves underwater. Better to not suffer condis at all I think. You didn’t specify whether this post is related to WvW, sPvP, or PvE, but here’s my sPvP build for an S/D thief.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VdF3V-FCVwk0-J5JOFd07EwOFc07-JP;5T-OE;102A;128-4;0IcW4-JF0KJG4KJG45BQ

For underwater combat, all you really need is to spam Shadow Assault (Spear #5). Combined with my trait set up, Withdraw and Roll for Initiative, you’ll have access to A LOT of dodges and evasion from skills, as well as initiative regen to use spear #5 again and again, as long as you’re hitting someone. I do run Lyssa Runes, which clears condis with Basilisk Venom, AND BV will hold an enemy in place while you spear #5 them. Devourer Venom has the same application, and you can close gaps with Steal and Infiltrator’s Signet.

I haven’t fully tested it, but I’m fairly certain you can get somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 seconds of constant evasion using your skills and dodges wisely. Only issue is that Withdraw and Roll for Initiative will move you off point if you’re playing the water map in sPvP, but they’re fantastic for disengaging.

But short of using a spec similar to mine, using Lyssa Runes, Purity Sigils, and Hide in Shadows are our best methods for underwater condi cleansing.

Thread seems to have been derailed …

ANYWAY, for those who want to run S/D and Short Bow in sPvP, I’ve been running 0/30/0/25/15 the last few hours, and I have to say it’s working well. I swapped Quick Pockets, something I rarely take advantage of in combat, for the extra init minor trait in Trickery.

If you want to run dual S/D though, Jumpers trait set up is the best way to go.

Jumper.9482:

Probably. You won’t last long enough to be applying enough pressure otherwise. The high endurance is necessary to survive. Any good team will just burn you down in stealth if you try running a 30 shadow art spec.

There really is no need for shortbow at all. I can disengage safely with sword2 99% of the time. Plus the energy and init regen from constant weapon swapping is somewhat necessary for sustain imo. The only thing you’re really losing from shortbow is the poison and ranged aoe for downed enemy/allies. This is probably the biggest weakness in high-end play.

I run a 0/30/0/30/10 spec like yours, though I believe you go for the init on Signet use, where as I run Furious Retaliation. I use stealth sparingly, for the occasional daze after a CnD, or sneaking and rezzing with refuge. I believe I use Infiltrators Strike pretty well and I do disengage with it, but the vertical mobility from short bow is hard to pass up, along with the things you mentioned.

I have a lot of success with my build, but then I don’t often fight the caliber of players you do. If I ever do break into high-end tPvP, I’ll probably have to revisit my build and do something like yours. Or go back to D/P burst.

Thanks for your response. I learned how to play a strong sPvP thief by watching your streams. Keep up the good work.

Well I would argue that with the buff to Flanking Strike/Larcenous Strike, there is more diversity, as more thieves are running S/D boon stripping/evasion thieves.

It all comes down to personal and team effectiveness though. D/P burst thieves are simply more valuable to a team than bunker condi thieves, S/P burst thieves, and certainly P/P thieves. Yes, its unfortunate, but its also silly to get upset at players who want to maximize their classes in a competitive environment.

Would you rather have a glass cannon staff Elementalist on your team, or a D/D bunker cantrip ele?

Not all specs are made equal, and until we have better balance AND different PvP game modes, this is how sPvP will be with ALL classes.

There are plenty of tried and true D/D builds out there, a quick google search is all it takes to find them. That said, you may want to specify if this is for PvE, WvW or sPvP.

Well played Jumper. I run a very similar set up to yours, though I go less for extreme init regen and more for over all utility. I simply can’t reconcile giving up Shadow Refuge, Shadowstep, and my Short bow. Otherwise, my traits are nearly identical to yours, and I run Signet of Agility.

Something else I do is run Sigil of Purity on my S/D set to help deal with condis. It’s probably not necessary and I could swap it out for something objectively better like Sigil of Energy, but I like it for whatever reason.

Your set up can definitely stay in a fight longer than mine, therefore stripping more boons and doing more damage, but mine offers more team utility. Do you think it’s necessary for an S/D thief to be all-in init regen and no shortbow to be effective at high level tPvP?

Daeqar.8965:

I like Head Shot, but the problem with it is opportunity cost. Even if a person uses it like a pro, most situations cost the thief more in:

1) Initiative spent
2) Damage lost compared to free autoattack
3) Time spend (arguably double dip on damage lost, but which you would be most concerned about is situation specific)

In most real situations where it should make sense to headshot, it actually ends up being more productive to use other buttons because using it can deny the thief as much or more than the target getting hit.

IMO, they should either make Headshot cost less initiative, or they should make it do substantial damage (more than Vital Shot, including its bleed damage.)

And I agree, it would be nice if Headshot emptied your current skill queue and just executed asap whenever you hit the button. Being off gcd like Steal would actually be the real ideal, but that’s probably too much to hope for (and would also not be compatible with the doing significant damage idea.)

I will confess, Head Shotting someone’s heal at low health could sometimes not be as efficient as a Heart Seeker or simply auto attacking, but it’s all situational like you said. I’d rather interrupt another thieves Hide in Shadows than try to squeeze more damage in and potentially not kill him.

But the uses definitely extend beyond securing a kill. Head Shot can be a massive tactical advantage for your team, where damage might simply have done nothing. Stopping stomps or rezzes, Heart Seeker through smoke fields, big attacks like Churning Earth or Hundred Blades … Sometimes Head Shot is most useful when you least anticipate using it.

It would be phenomenal if it cost 3 initiative, or did more damage, or was instant cast. But I’m still gonna use it as best I can, and I think one of the hallmarks of a good ?/P thief is knowing how to use it most effectively. I’m still learning.

Track.5029:

yeah, i’ve been thinking about this build;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmiO3cy9E/5Ex2jdqTiy9woJ1pdFwKA-TsAg0CnI4SxljLDXSuscNoYZxECA

how do you guys think it will work?
Haven’t experienced with the D/P set yet, so any feedbacks will be more than welcome

That’s a strong set up for hot joins, the shadow arts tree makes you personally strong, but doesn’t bring much to the team. A D/P thieves strengths are his steady AOE damage from short bow, mobility from short bow, and his burst from the D/P set, none of which require shadow arts traits. Focussing on stealth traits encourages you to stealth more and, while beneficial to you, can be detrimental for point capping in the conquest style game. By not picking up those deadly arts traits AND Assassins Signet, you’ll be doing significantly less damage than you could be.

Of course, if you’re play style is better suited to stealthing often and playing defensive, go for it. I personally think you’ll be less effective, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t play how you want to.

Head Shot is fantastic as it is, I’d be ok with it if it dealt zero damage. The quick, ranged interrupt is all you need.

My only problem with it is the skill queue system, where I often times won’t Head Shot in time or AT ALL when I press 4 key. This leads me to want to spam it, and now I’m using 2 Head Shots and wasting initiative.

Standard D/P glass build is 25/30/0/0/15, it’s still being run today, though the mug and short bow nerf affected it a lot. Can’t go wrong with Divinity, Scholar, or Ogre runes. For sigils I recommend Air and Force for D/P, and Fire, Bloodlust, or Energy are all good choices for your short bow.

Just to clear up some confusions you might have about playing a thief in sPvP …

Every thief uses Shadow Step. Offensively and defensively.

The build you use has been around since day one.

Making a video of insta-gibbing glass cannon’s in hot join isn’t going to get you a lot of kudos.

Might wanna check your keyboard, you’re number 2 button might be a little stuck.

And I recommend exploring dagger/pistol, there’s more buttons to press.

Weren’t most of the thief stealthing complaints coming from WvW? And they might be reverting it for WvW? Why do they feel it’s necessary in sPvP? Does anyone feel like thieves are overpowered and are in need of a nerf in sPvP? Or that the revealed reverting back to 3 seconds in sPvP would make us OP?

I know this won’t be everyone’s experience … but I just got out of a game, and the enemy team was a pug made up of 4 D/D bunker ele’s and a necro. Long story short, we never stood a chance. Why has Ride the Lightening with the orb not been adjusted yet? It’s a ridiculous advantage on Spirit Watch, especially when there’s more than one source of it.

Aeneasx.1589:

To the IOJ, Asura, Commander S/D Mage… good fights man. I’ve seen you quite a bit since yesterday lol.

Also, there is an IOJ Norn Ranger with the guild “PROT?” I think… its an odd name but you cant miss the character…

anyways congrats on being the single best ranger on the server. Can you /pm your spec/stats/gear so I can roll a copy in TpVp?! Good fights!!!!!!!

Sounds like you’re talking about Gutugutumakkan from my guild, he does WvW a lot. And the ranger sounds like Estel Wolfheart who posted earlier in this thread, and who did very well in the fight clubThursday.

I’ve been away this weekend, and it seems I’m missing out on a lot of fun in WvW. I’m glad to see [HARD] is doin a good job reppin IoJ.

Keep makin WvW fun! I love this tier.

Zidd.6083:

I guess not ALL thieves know that the 4 sec. reveal don’t affect wvw. I feel greatly affected as a valkyrie/divinity D/D thief with 10/30/30/0/0

I used to run that build as well. Try 10/30/15/15/0, and pick up the 2 init on stealth and vigor on healing traits. It’s been working well for me so far.

I don’t care for the 4sec reveal either, but I have to say that I think it’s forcing me to play smarter. The rotation issue is an annoyance, but it’s easily adaptable.

I play primarily WvW with some sPvP when I get a group for tourney. I ran with a D/D 10/30/30/0/0 in WvW and I liked it. With revealed at 4 seconds, I’m testing D/D 10/30/15/15/0 now. Seeing if Feline Grace can help me compensate for less stealthing.

BTW, the recent patch did not fix Hidden Killer.

irishhaf.1692:

yea and the 5 golems… at 2 am… you ran from a possible hard fight to a place you new you’d have numbers … real tough.

I know my suggestion from now on is hit IOJ we tried to take it to DH a couple times today but 20-40 man IOJ zergs in our BL pretty much all day kinda borked that up.

You call it cowardly. I call it smart.

And we didn’t know that we would have a number advantage in your BL. We knew that we had better odds in your BL than going to DHs BL. There wasn’t that many of us. Even when we had 5 golems up, we had maybe 15 IoJ.

If you want to take it personally, feel free to. Like I said, we enjoy fighting DR.

irishhaf.1692:

Hehe I hope you get your wish soon and move up… its not fun if you don’t have solid 24 hour coverage.

edit: I see IOJ has already quit and plays for second… im a little shocked and disappointed.

That playing for second thing has kinda been going both ways though. There’s really no hard feelings. We genuinely enjoy playing against DR, and we all feel it’s a very even and interesting match up.

To be fair, golem rushing your BL after midnight EST is kind of a low blow, I admit. I hate PvDooring as much as the next guy. We considered doing it to DH, but given that we knew all of their towers and keeps would be fully upgraded AND we would get zerged, we decided DR was the better target. Our golem rush started with 2 golems and 5 escorts, and we were kinda surprised that we got just one of your keeps, let alone all of them.

I’m pretty much resigned to the fact that DH will win this week. I hope that in between the DH zergs we can get some good fights. The fight for second is still pretty kitten close.

hyjaxxx.1584:

its funny to hear DR and IoJ complain that we have crazy amounts of people. We most certainly do not. which as ive stated before is why we get creamed when servers with better coverage face us. Since ive been in wvw i have yet to feel we have been bested in skill/team work by a server as we always seem to get more done with smaller numbers.

Although when we have our momentum going , the pvers come out of the wood work to get their vistas and some wvw experience while not feeling threatened in the open plains. This has been one of our best Sundays i have seen people wise. and im sure with a shortened work week it might keep on rolling.

lastly to answer the person asking About GRIM, Sunday tends to be a day of Rest for alot of our guild. But we had 5 level 10s crushing skulls for a few hours today. But the best way to find one of us GRIM folks…is to check the handle end of the “finish them” Spike stickin out of your head <3

DH has a hardcore case of fair weather WvW’ers right now. It’s nothing to get upset about I think, but your assertion that you don’t have crazy amounts of people is relative. YOU DO have crazy numbers compared to IoJ and DR. That might not have been the case with BP and AR, but the number game is definitely in your favor now.

Also, check the text. Quality candor from quality DH players. After you took 90% of EB earlier today, IoJ was spawn camped for hours. Now, I ran out to get some good fights against them, to have fun, and I guess they had more fun ganging up on me.

Xillllix.3485:

pixieish.9627:

Well, about an hour or so ago, I had some of my guildmates informing me that our borderlands weren’t going well, and when I showed up, I had the pleasure of seeing a rather sizable force of Darkhaven breaking through the southern gate of our garrison, eager for blood.

Personally? I think I barely did anything to improve our odds beyond giving a nice blue sigil for our forces to look at, with DR militia quickly manning the ballistas and turning those rednames into porcupines when they broke the inner gate and piled in.

Our forces tried to push them out, but annoyingly Darkhaven managed to rally up quick like, and soon we were back inside garrison, trying to rebuild siege, regroup, and… wonder why the hell someone decided we needed a golem.

This time, however, we discovered we still had a mortar handy, and with a catapult built up as well, Darkhaven’s siege attempts were pretty much nullified. I tried to group up our forces for a proper counterattack, though that was rendered pointless when our guys just charged them anyways, and I found myself following them, leaving a trail of sparkling bags and corpses behind us as we finally managed to break that assault on our lands.

Was a little anticlimatic when we managed to retake all of our map with little fuss, but I suppose I can’t complain.

Well well well… Considering the failure that was the attempt to take Stonemist from DH just an hour ago I wouldn’t brag too much being in your shoes. I guess it goes both ways, and that what this game is all about But thanks, you guys filled up my inventory with loot, TWICE! See you on the fields!

Well well well… Considering the failure that was the attempt to take Overlook Keep from IoJ 6 hours ago WITH 14 GOLEMS, I wouldn’t brag too much being your shoes. I guess it goes both ways, and that is what this game is all about.

Seriously.

14 Golems.

They were delicious, btw.

If you haven’t figured out how to deal with stealth by now, you’re probably never going to be happy about it. I can understand griping about stealth and culling.

This thread will not be constructive.

I’m pretty certain you’re just trolling anyway.

Yohimbe.1876:

Go go IoJ!! Wishing you much badges in your new match.

Well they’re certainly giving us badges. Not many points, but plenty of badges.

Aeneasx.1589:

Female human thief from [HARD] wearing tier three cultural – doubt you’ll read this, but…

Nice (often interrupted) exchanges last night – props! What made you single me out initially?! :p

Hey there, I think you’re talkin about me. I honestly don’t remember if I hit you first or you hit me, but I initially was trying reduce your group numbers. I noticed at first you put up a good fight, and then you downed me a couple times. After that, I really wanted to single you out for a fight.

I liked how we both separated from the groups for a 1v1, after a stare down of course. Good times. Unfortunately my allies showed up and ruined our fun. I kinda wish ANET would implement a dueling system. Hard to get 1v1’s out there in WvW, and I feel like I could use the practice.

You’re really good, and you convinced me to start using Basilisk Venom. I figure I’ll use it for small group skirmishes and Dagger Storm for large group battles. I hope to see you more, I never shy from a challenge.