Guild Wars 2

Zogyark.4597:

Ignorance at it’s best here, the reason why you’re being pinned down as a Moa is because YOU CAN NOT use stun breaks or any utilities as the bird, therefore any stun after the transform will pin you and have you slaughtered. If you get stunned by a warrior or a mesmer, guess what… YOU CAN use stun break.

It can’t be clearer than that.

So every Moa (especially those on high health targets as damage control) is instantly followed up by an uncounterable stun automatically? I must not be traited right.

If a Warrior (and Mesmer, lol?) are killing you in a stun, they have ways to force your stunbreak early. In which case you wouldn’t have it anyways and you’re losing a 2v1. And following that up with more snares, dazes, and immobilizes, they don’t need a Moa to control and kill you. Not the skill’s fault.

A Moa doesn’t get you killed. It gets your teammate killed when you can’t do a knockback for them to counter a stomp, or even counter-pressure. It’s not an effective 1v1 tool. It’s not an effective 2v1 tool either, because you’re already being outplayed and it’s unnecessary. If they’re casting it on you, it’s because they’re trying to tick you off, not that it’s tactically necessary or even efficient. Apparently, judging by your responses, it’s working.

Reactionary thinking rather than pre-emptive is why you get killed. You see Moa and you panic. That’s what gets you killed.

What does a Moa do, exactly? It takes someone’s offensive ability out of a skirmish. That’s not really helping someone die faster (most of the time, few exceptions of course), it’s helping a team survive better or push down one of the other enemy players with less counter-support to deal with.

If that Warrior (or that same Mesmer) could still pin you down and slaughter you, they didn’t need the Moa to do it and it was a waste of a cast. Really, it’s not a hard concept to get.

Mac.1936:

I mean honestly, how many times have people been killed by Thieves Guild, Tome of Wrath, Lich Form, because everyone got healed from Tome of Courage, etc? Plenty.

How many times have you been killed due to Moa? For me it’s once.

I’ve used it to kill someone who wasn’t the Moa… or at least, to not die immediately when I’m overwhelmed.

The big problem is, it visually tells you you’re not in control of the situation. Any of the other elites still give the victims the illusion of being in control until it all goes down, but that’s all it is, an illusion. Moa tears that away off of a single person, but only one. And that’s why people hate it.

Mac.1936

I would say any of those is just as much a game changer as Moa is. Not to mention that Plague Form can negate Moa if you use the blind one. Which, is what I do when I’m in Plague Form, an AoE blind the entire time.

Exactly. Thank you, for this.

Kintari.4172:

Sure, but when you fight a backstab thief, a hundred blades warrior, or someone who deals heavy condition damage, at no point do you find yourself unable to actually play your class for 10 consecutive seconds. That’s the issue.

You could give Moa a 30 minute cooldown for all I care, it’s still a poor idea for a skill regardless of how often it can be used.

When people were getting shredded by Hundred Blades Warriors, they weren’t getting 10 seconds to live (because they played badly). If an Elementalist can chain a single move into a Tornado, they’re stripping away the ability to actually play your chosen Profession, because they’re knocking you flat on your kitten again and again (and don’t root the caster, or need stealth to pull off, huh go figure).

The only difference is, the Mesmer flat out tells you that you’re not in control. It takes away the illusion, if you will. Because if you’re being ragdolled by a Tornado, you’re not in control even if you want to think you are. If you missed the tell on Hundred Blades, you didn’t have 10 seconds to live. You had no control over your character, and were dead almost instantly.

But if giving up Time Warp for 10 seconds of single target Passify is what’s killing you then find a way to counter it. Knockdown, stun, block, daze, or take lessons from Rip Torn: Dodge, dip, duck, dive and dodge. Moa itself isn’t even the reason you die. The fact that people don’t know how to respond to it before (or stand there like a moron after) is what gets them killed. Anyone that can see the telegraph can dodge. Anyone that knows the Mesmer went into stealth will watch for her to come out (stealth isn’t long enough), and dodge. Moa’s on cooldown and wasted. Elite skill, zero effect.

If you have a problem, skill up.

I actually use Moa when I’m being a scout/spotter (or solo supply camp harassment) in WvW, because it turns a 3v1 into a managable 2v1 and helps me play the attrition game until I can either gtfo or have backup come in. And I’ve used it to great success, but I have also had it FAIL flat out because, you know, I can be knocked down, stunned, dazed, blocked, Invulnerable, etc. Or you know, DODGE?

If you’re going against a Thief and he stealths, you have to expect an opener that’ll probably be painful and respond accordingly. When a Mesmer stealths, the way to act accordingly be prepared to dodge a Moa the second you see her again. And that has, and will continue, to be put to use by people far more skilled than the OP.

For a three minute cooldown, Moa isn’t that long of a duration, and it roots the caster and is highly telegraphed. People looked at Conditions as a whole as Overpowered (ignoring Toughness, stackable, keeps doing damage even after the target’s left). Then people started bringing Condition Removal, and learned to deal with it. Hundred Blades has a few really really obvious set ups, and people used to think it was too good, until people that don’t generally suck found ways to counter it and the community itself moved beyond it.

Terrible players will look at it and see it as brokenly overpowered, rather than accept their lack of skill or insight in seeking a counter. That is what makes them terrible players.

Kutai.4971:

Can someone explain to me how the GS was buffed?

I haven’t used it since disliking it at launch, so I’m interested to hear the changes.

50% attack speed increase. 50% increased speed for Mind Stab (#3), so you aren’t rooted for four and a half months, and can actually functionally hit a target that moves faster than an RP-Sidestep.

Which Mesmer trainer…?

@Djahlat,

As one blessed by Lyssa, I also had the Balthazar effect during that particular personal story mission, so I don’t think that’s really it.

Dear OP.

2 Second cast.
180 Second Cooldown.
Only shares particles with Mass Invisibility, so if you see a Mesmer casting it, just dodge right before it finishes and now it’s on a CD for the rest of the match.

Given the fact that the cast roots the Mesmer, and it has an obvious telegraph, it very much becomes a learn-to-play issue.

How would you accomodate the short range of an Engineer’s Rifle (compared to a Warrior’s), or a Mesmer with a Greatsword? What about combinations that uses “melee” weapons in offhand, without actually needing them for more than a get-the-frak-out of jail free card, while still plinking away with mid-range weapons?

murasamune.2756:

clones do not overwrite phantasms.

Yes they do.

A clone will replace a clone, unless no other clones are present, in which case it replaces a Phantasm.

Didn’t we already have two or three seperate threads on Main Hand Pistol already, one even on the first page…?

If they shift the buff/debuff utility around, and make Might stacks not screw you out of a Phantasm build, I may have to go karma grinding for another weaponskin >.>

I was actually JUST about to make a topic, with the exact same title >.>

Anyways, yes. Mind Stab being functional, and actually usable, it’s just… wow. Four kinds of wow. (Now if only that was the clone generator instead of Mirror Blades…)

And the attack speed increase finally moves Greatsword out of the Guild Watching 2 category, into actually feeling like you’re playing the game again.

…dat Greatsword change. Thanks ANet. I hope someone sends you pictures of fluffy kittens.

Or return it to an auto-fire mechanic again. That would at least fix one of the issues with it.

Bibidiboo.6409:

I used to think the GS was horrible too, but once i got to endgame i started using it over staff. Now at first i thought it was horrible, and i thought the mesmer was bad at PvE too. I switched to a full glass cannon build, power precision crit damage% on everything. I’ve got a full exotic set now. Greatsword works a lot better than staff with that build. If you time the GS phantasm right it will hit multiple mobs for a LOT of damage. A lot more than staff’s chaos storm could ever do, because in the whirl it strikes everything around it 3 times.

I may agree with you on Scepter’s complete and total uselessness. My problem with the Greatsword is Might Stacking (something you want to do) prevents you from using multiple cooldowns (and that the only real way to AoE is on that Berserker, what happens when the target dies, it’s on cooldown and you have nothing )

Staff really has nothing for endgame pve, sure chaos storm is amazing. But besides that? The autoattack does less damage than GS with a glass cannon build, and with condi damage the staff’s damage is still less, the teleport is ok and the phantasm is probably the least damaging phantasm after torch offhand.

The Phantasm itself is actually designed for a Power Build, it doesn’t scale with condition damage. I tend to run staff for the mediocre non-target-limited AoE, as well as using it as a defensive point for Chaos Armor. If I can get a teammate to blast it off on us, amazing. If not, I Phase Retreat out of it, and still have my normal Chaos Armor waiting for me.

But then again, I use it primarily as a defensive weapon, because I like melee whenever possible :p

Malakree.5912:

I see your incorrect statement and raise you

Phantasmal Haste – Phantasms recharge 20% faster.

A trait which is specifically based around the idea that you will get more than one volley out of your phantasm, a core part of the PvE phantasm build just fyi. 20 points into illusion. Then for indirect hints they want them out for a while.

Phantasmal Fury – Your phantasms have fury.

This originally had a duration of 2 hours, that’s right 2 hours. It now has a duration of 10seconds and is instantly refreshed every 10seconds as a counter measure to someone stealing a TWO HOUR FURY BUFF off your phantasm.

Persisting Images – Phantasms have 20% more health.
Signet of Illusions – Passive: Grants more health to your illusions ( Illusion Health Bonus: 50%)

Aww, you forgot Phantasmal Healing, which gives you pulsing Regeneration from your Phantasms (after an initial delay), and each individual pulse from each individual Phantasm not only adds duration, but it also re-triggers Protection from Illusionary Membrane.

While at this point I don’t expect you to realize this I’ll go ahead and explain it anyway. There is this core mesmer SPvP talent which creates a clone when you dodge, there’s an almost mandatory mesmer utility that causes you to create a clone and go invisible. Both of these are crippled if you can’t replace that third phantasm, this is why they chose the second one, so that it doesn’t smash apart other core abilities and utilities.

Or skills like Decoy and Mirror Images both would be broken the second that they didn’t overwrite Phantasms.

EasymodeX.4062:

You are wrong.

That aside, GS is an excellent weapon.

Running with Multiple Phantasms means that you’re not shattering on cooldown, which means if you need an emergency daze or distortion (or even a heal) immediately after, you don’t have to wait to resummon clones to get one off.

Give a Power Build, triple Phantasms offer much more damage than triple-clone Mind Wracking on cooldown (even if you can manage to pull that off). Have you been ignoring how hard the Berserker shreds? The Duelist? The Swordsman itself is pretty solid. 3 Warlocks that don’t need you to manage your debuffs (because they’re already up there, EDEs) will outdamage two Phase Retreat clones that hope they can put up Burning on RNG. So nope, not really wrong here.

It’s certainly a subjective thing to say you don’t like the playstyle, it’s another to address my point as false, without backing it up (because you can’t).

Zylo.6597:

The fact that the clone from mirror blade spawns next to the foe it hits first shows its errors in the design…

Yeah, I’ve been thinking this too.

Carighan.6758:

You’re not supposed to run perma-Phantasm. The design of shatter or details like how Clones replace the third Phantasm make that very clear. They redesigned Clones vs Phantasms, and deliberately made it so that you can’t have 3 Phantasms up for long without overwriting one.

Staff, Pistol offhand, Focus offhand, and Sword offhand all beg to disagree that you CAN have three Phantasms up for long. If you need to use a utility skill (like a block, or a defensive Phantasm) to replace a single damaging Phantasm, the fact you’ve been running 3 solidly all along means that you have no issue pushing that button again to bring your running total back up to 3.

You can, and should, be running 3 Phantasms whenever possible. Unfortunately with Scepter and Greatsword, that’s just not possible.

Winterfell.8915:

Blade training (Major trait in dueling) doesnt work for Sword OFF HAND
Clones dont got an off hand

Edit the bugs that are writen here in your first post and make it sticky!

Blade Training reduces the cooldown of your Illusionary Riposte, and your phantasm, the Illusionary Swordsman.

So yeah, it works for offhand. You’re confusing what it does.

Graedahl.8972:

I’d like to add my voice to this request.

There really needs to be a viable power mainhand that is used from range.

We don’t need a viable mainhand,w e need a viable weapon. Greatsword needs fixed first before we worry about balancing the profession around additional equips.

Nadril.7510:

Carighan.6758:

Kelesti.2458:

*Remove Clone generation from Mirror Blades, Remove Vulnerability. Replace it with Blind, increase cooldown (and range).

Blind on a 4,8-10s CD. Chaining. Right.
Also, no Clone generation? It’s the fastest non-autoattack move of the GS, it needs that Clone. Not like you shouldn’t use it. As always, if Clones overwriting your Phantasms is a problem, you’re not shattering enough to begin with.

Clones don’t overwrite Phantasm’s anyways anymore. Its a non-issue.

Also Shatter isn’t worth it to use for a Phantasm build. You get more damage from the summons.

Almost a non-issue. If you have three Phantasms, one of them will be replaced with a Clone should you use a Clone summoning skill. Unfortunately, Mirror Blades stacking Might summons clones, and it does so faster than you can re-replace them with fresh Phantasms. So you either give up Might duration, or you give up being able to use a third Phantasm. Lose-lose

As always, if Clones overwriting your Phantasms is a problem, you’re not shattering enough to begin with.

You do realize that over the course of a Mind Wrack cooldown, that multiple Phantasms would be outdamaging (and depending on build, outsupporting) Mind Wrack’s AoE splash? Not everyone plays nuclear holocaust, some of us actually try to keep our Phantasms alive for, y’know, what they actually bring to the table more than just a combo point that enables mediocre splash.

Rainbow.4721:

@Embolism oh yea im talking stictly PvE. Since mobs don’t stack boons really since you don’t want to get hit at all pretty much you get 1 shot.

Getting one shot by a non-telegraphed attack is a myth. Mesmers do just fine in melee, and with a decent build are almost at necro levels of dealing with Damage. A one-handed sword is generally our top damaging attack chain (as well as self-maintaining Vulnerability).

Being able to stay in melee with a sword (rather than a pistol) means that on a short cooldown we can block any one effect (including huge aoe blasts) without ever having to leave melee range. It just requires a better connection than cups attached together via string.

In PvE, the Illusionary Swordsman also evades during its entire attack chain, meaning unilke the pistol, it readjusts its position to keep distance, and actually has a higher survivability than Duelist that just stands in any/everything.

And of course, Blurred Frenzy is probably one of the most imbalanced spells in the game, for any melee, for any profession period.

For PvE, Sword/Sword —> Staff.
For PvP, probably Sword/Pistol —> Staff.

Embolism.8106:

I’d rather see a MH Pistol being heavily Illusion based rather than “pew pew bullets” based. Preferably Pistol 1 would be an Illusionary attack rather than a real bullet.

If MH Pistol is going to be our power-based 1H ranged weapon, I’d like Confusion to be added back to Ether Clone to make it our condition-based 1H ranged.

I don’t understand why Confusion was taken out of Scepter. Originally it was one stack on each of the first two attacks, third attack summons a clone. Then it was reworked to do 2 stacks and summon all on the third attack.

If I remember right, they took it out because people who were terrible at running anything but “dps skills” couldn’t understand how Condition Removal works, and so felt that Confusion was too much?

Scepter’s damage was never buffed to compensate. Putting Confusion back in rectifies this, and people generally know how to react to conditions so it’s not like it’s “amg so op” anymore.

As an added touch, why are they still spawning in melee range? Scratching my head on this one.

Best: Blurred Frenzy. Period. 2 second immunity to everything, on an 8 second cooldown. There is no substitute.
Probably put Time Warp and Illusion of Life up there for group play (dungeons specifically), and Feedback/Arcane Thievery for solo.

Worst: The Mantras. Any time that you need to recast them, you’re pretty much at a loss, even with the “but you can cast them three times”

God forbid you were dumb enough to go Sword+Sword if this is you… I feel for you cause you must have not seen the warrior class in character creation.

God forbid someone find a melee option that’s entertaining and actually works. Considering your lack of understanding on even the simple block mechanics (how much damage they do, or even how they work) is distasteful. That you’d even compare it to a Warrior simply because of melee weapons (surprise any profession can ) is quite laughable.

djones.4751:

I think, thematically, the cripple fits the idea of the greatsword, although the jury is out on whether or not it fits the practice.

The point of the cripple is that it allows you to constantly keep distance from your foe thus maximising the damage from your Spatial Surge and ultimately the distance scaling on Spatial Surge is worth a hell of a lot more than vulnerability, AND hell you get to keep the enemy away from you too.

While I may agree with you, you’re missing that I never said I wanted Vulnerability here. I think it’s wasted on the greatsword. I said I wanted Weakness. Two different conditions.

djones.4751:

If you add cripple to illusionary Wave you’ve just beaten every melee in sPvP ever. That would be absolutely broken. The reason why it’s on the berserker is it’s a balance play issue. It forces the other player to make decisions where they take out the berserker or try to focus you. It encourages smart choice and clever management of phantasms by both us and them. Putting vulnerability on the berserker and cripple on the wave would just mean whenever a melee gets to us we throw them away and have them on half health before they ever get back to us. Not balanced at all.

That’s fair enough. What about removing Cripple altogether, but replacing it with Weakness?

5. “Phantasmal Haste” does not effect some phantasms. Warlock and Disenchanter being at least two.

Swordsman is not affected either.

And to add another:
Illusionists Celerity affects pretty much nothing.

To fix the buff placement to reduce some of the sword overlap, and to keep Might Stacking from overwriting your Phantasms (which is stupid), here’s probably what I’d do.

*Remove Clone generation from Mirror Blades, Remove Vulnerability. Replace it with Blind, increase cooldown (and range).
*Fix Mind Stab with either a bigger radius or auto-fire. Either works. Put clone generation on this one.
*Remove the Cripple on Berserker. Instead she should get Weakness. Put Cripple on Illusionary Wave, since it serves the same purpose.

What’re your thoughts?

Been doing some thinking on the problems with greatsword, and even keeping the “flavor” of doing more damage the farther you are away from a target, there are a few.

First, buff management, as noted above. So much overlap that assuming you can play a Melee, you’re better off doing so. Few ideas on this below.

Second Your Might stacker (should feel awesome to push) creates clones that overwrite your Phantasms. This is pretty uncool. Your Berserker is on a much longer cooldown than this, so unlike other weapons (blocks, whatever) you can’t replace them the second they’re no longer necessary.

Third You can’t actually hit anything with Mind Stab. No really, this is ridiculous. The hit radius is too small for the fact it roots you to try to skillshot it. It either needs a bigger radius, or to go back to auto-fire.

Fourth The attack speed is way too slow. There’s such a disconnect between when you start and when you finish, it feels more like watching than playing. Can we go back to the BWE1 speed, adjust numbers as needed?

EsLafiel.4517:

Malakree.5912:

when needed to get dis, I use GS and it does the job I want it to do. very well

Use staff instead, way better.

First dont tell me what to use, second no it not. Not how I use it. When I need to get distance fast. The staff cant do that, it can a bit with number 2 and 5 can, but fear is low%.

Ive play with both a lot, and for how I use a secondary weapon. I dont use it for damage are support. just use it for a fast get away. It the best there is.

Staff hasn’t feared in quite awhile. It’s a 1 second Daze that replaced that effect. But dropping Chaos Storm and running through it is a great way to put distance between yourself and your target. Because you’ll get buffs, and Swiftness to GTFO, they’ll either take a fair bit of damage and a LOT of debuffs, or have to go around. Second, as you’re leaving, you do a 180 and phase retreat out (it’s instant, no cast time) for Chaos Armor. Even if he’s ranged and plinking away at you, you’re the winner here (and still have a second Chaos Armor on #4 in reserve).

Plus staff doesn’t feel kittened if/when the enemy finally does get to you (you can’t mean to tell me that a Greatsword’s pushback will never let a target reach you).

One handed sword offers every move as a cleave. On fights that have a lot of mobs rushing in, Mirror Images and an instant mind wrack, and go to town cleaving what’s left. If Mind Wrack’s off cooldown, I’ll summon another add.

The Lack of AoE only really hurts if you’re running a Greatsword or a Scepter. And on a bajillion little adds, I daresay that it’s power builds that just tear through everything that tend to matter more than finely-tuned class mechanics. So cleave, cleave your hurt out.

Limnage.9581:

Yes, please give us a ranged power weapon! Right now there are none.

Well, there’s one Ranged “Power” weapon, it’s just incredibly terribly designed, with its damage slowed down so severely and so much overlap with its melee counterpart that it’s just not worth the equip slot.

They need to fix Greatsword before they try to balance the Profession around an additional equip setup.

As far as what you bring to a group with a greatsword, pretty much everything is already covered by a 1-handed Sword.

Boon Removal from Mind Stab? Covered on 1-chain on a much shorter cooldown, without having to rely on rooting ourselves to telegraph we’re hitting a 2 yard radius.
Vulnerability? 1-chain.
AoE from the Phantasm? Everything from the Sword itself cleaves, without worry of a target dying and forcing it on cooldown.
Cripple from Phantasm? Illusionary Leap.

So that leaves us with Might, and a Pushback. A pushback, I should add, that almost everything in PvE seems to be immune to. So is two seperate triple stacks of Might (on a random target) worth giving up Blurred Frenzy’s 8 second cooldown, plus whatever bonus customization we can get from our particular choice of offhand?

Am I wrong, or is Greatsword bringing pretty much everything that a 1h sword comes from (except the damage) and saying “But I can do it from ranged, pew pew!”? Because for the Profession to only have two reliable Power Weapons, this seems like far too much overlap.