Guild Wars 2

At OP, if you really expected a full workover of all the current dung beyond:
- adjustments of mobs HP, boss HP
- damage of some mobs
-frequency of knockdowns
- silver vs vet
- removal of some trash in longer paths
- reworking of some minor mechanics (5 torch in CoF p3 to 3 torches, adjusting the sparks at Simin (coming this patch))
- adjustment of drops (loot and potentially number of tokens in some longer paths to adjust for time investment difference)
- adjustment to some boss mechanics (add some, remove some bad ones, fix ones that are kinda broke)
- fixes to exploits like standing on stairs in AC, lightpost in Arah, and so on

then you were mislead by what they were going to do to adjust the dung to make them more evenly balanced. There is no way we would see patch that actually recreates each of the original dung… it would just takes too long and postpone any new content. What they are going to do is make adjustments from the list above mostly to even out the paths and dung and use the feedback and knowledge to make the next dung they release better and more inline with what we may want to see.

who said patch at end of next week? it may be 2 weeks (there are 3 fridays left in the month and they always have done fri patches)

Conner.4702:

Turial.1293:

Conner.4702:

When people are sick of running them than they should stop running them. Being tired of a dungeon is not an excuse to bypass game mechanics, which IS exploiting. It is not a tactical advantage when the target just stands there due to a coding oversight. It also is on the heads of the players and not the devs. It is called having ethics and simply not cheat.

When people have to farm a dungeon 30-35 times just to make a set of armor or in the case of AC, farm to make money, as it is currently one of the best areas of monetary value at minimum effort then it is safe to assume they are tired of the content. The dungeons currently have no changes, they are the same thing from point A to point B and when you do that 30-35 times and find you can skip a mob or three due to agro range or getting into a room where they cant follow then no it is not really cheating. It is boredom, because the loot is that bad there is no reason to waste time killing everything just because it is the way it was originally designed. There is no reward for players that way, aside from keeping yourself happy I suppose.

If I had a choice of walking through a hallway full of silvers with little to no loot to get to the boss or jump in the water, swim under the bridge and climb out the other side scott-free I would take the jump every time. I would not care about keeping players of the group or devs happy because it is the right thing to do, I might try it once or twice but it would be on the devs head to take note of it and provide a work around; can you fire mortars to clear bridge but with no loot, do you fight the silvers but with increased loot drops, do they remove the water to stop it altogether? The post above this about there being a time limit on ethics is a very smart post indeed, if this “exploit” with the stairs was fixed within a day or two of being known then we wouldn’t be having this discussion but unfortunately the longer they don’t bother to actually do their job and fix it the longer they are saying it is ok to players. That is just my two cents.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

It’s one of those human things to do something with the path of least resistance and danger, especially when there is a reward at the end. I could make enemies never drop their aggro on players and force them to fight every single mob, but I don’t see that as a viable solution right now.
I think the better solution is to look at why people are skipping things, and approach from a different angle. Trash mobs have too much HP, and can’t be counted on for lucrative drops from a Risk/Time vs Reward, so people interested in making money (most groups) aren’t incentivized to do it, whereas the end chest/boss are more guaranteed and accountable returns on time and risk. I also think there is something to be said about interesting trash mob mechanics making them more enjoyable of a fight.

Sorry but that’s a load of baloney. It’s not on the developers heads if you choose to exploit. Take responsibility for your own actions. A set of armor is each path 7 times. That is hardly a lot and far from getting bored from it already.
Also that quote was about skipping mobs and not exploiting.

7times to each path is about a full set (is for AC, others take more). Many dung have common parts to all 3 paths meaning 21+ times doing the same thing. you tell me your not board or start to want to skip things that are not needed to be killed to get the runs done?

you also assume that each path is equal in that you will run all 3 paths, go look for CoF or TA gear, I bet you will not be running p3 or F/F 7 times, or even if you would finding people to do them 7 times is hard. this isnt as much of an issue in AC, but most people shouldn’t be doing AC for the gear as the stats are not that great for most all classes and if you disagree with that you should rethink how gimp your making your char build from what it can be.

Doggie.3184:

A Hero menu tab that your tokens all automatically go into the same way gold/gems does. Who wouldn’t like that idea? :o They can even keep the icons same size to make the menu look pretty.

This!!

one token for all.. kitten that, many of us worked hard running Arah to get our gear that we like and many of the community will never even come close because the dun is too hard for them, and if they can not cut it in Arah they shouldnt have the gear.

CoF p1 7min runs for token usable for any dung would be stupid. Just add a hero tab for the tokens and put them in.

Erebus.7568:

Koga.7215:

“improvements to the LFG tool” is a funny statement since we do not have a LFG tool, unless this is a we now have a basic one which we will improve and evolve over the year.

actually there is a bottom called “looking for group” under “contacts” it doesnt work for anything but its there…. and have been since early beta

i guess you can call the lfg symbol by your name a lfg tool…

Pandabro.8743:

Slither Shade.4782:

In case anyone missed it. I completed this dungeon with an 8 and a 10 year old. It was their first time in this dungeon. They completed it on their first try with myself as their guide. They Didnt break down in tears and write a post out in bold and caps. They want to do it again because thwy think it was fun. That is all.

Congrats.

The amount of players replying to this thread alone is a sign that this is not the normal experience.

I’ll reinstate my main point: Dungeons can be as difficult as they need to be but the game should manage the player’s expectations so they don’t see content as accessible until it actually is.

AC is easily done at lv30 in blues without any high level help. they have been made easier since release and they were done at 30 in blues without any high levels then too.

point is not that they dont manage your expectations, the problem is your expectation is it will be the same as others games you have played and it is not and you need to adjust how you play to succeed. even with such warning was to be placed across your screen in huge red letters, those who fail miserably will still because it takes time to adjust (be it figuring it out yourself or getting to trying something different sooner when your failing from some warning when you enter). those who can not complete AC at 30 (story) or 35(exp) will still not complete it and those of us who have no issues would still have no issues.

I hate to say it, but this is simply a L2P issue… this isnt WoW, LOTRO, Rift, or w/e other MMO you are used to and it takes some time to adjust. Some of us get it within the first few bosses in AC story and some still have not got it by the time they are 80 and done many dung runs (pulled through by the rest of their party).

Flameseeker.1563:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Just for the record, standing in a place where you can hurt the boss but the boss can’t hurt you back / can’t fight back is considered an exploit, and we are working on a solution for that problem.

Isn’t that annoying invulnerable mechanic that takes ages to disappear supposed to take care of that?
And what’s your take on 1 person maintaining agro to prevent invulnerable while the rest is somewhat safe? (in a sense that it’s unlikely the boss will go there but not impossible)

the reason the places most use are exploits is because the boss does not go invulnerable or reset like they should. obviously if they did no one would do it because you can not do it.

My guess is 4 range taking high ground and a tanky character staying in melee should be ok, but if the tank is downed or dies those 4 would need to get into his range quick or he should reset (there must be some risk to the strategy if it goes wrong if it is not the intended way to kill the boss). Let look at AC final boss (path 1 and 3), if my guard stays melee and 4 range run up the stairs to not need to worry about the cone atk its good strat, but if the guard gets hit and is downed the other 4 can not just stay up top and range like is done with all 5 currently. the other thing with this is that unlike now, you need to clear the breeders by the boss, not just run up top and ranged from the top.

“improvements to the LFG tool” is a funny statement since we do not have a LFG tool, unless this is a we now have a basic one which we will improve and evolve over the year.

Black Frog.9274:

Oglaf.1074:

That was not the question. The question was whether or not they can soak the damage, which they can with the right Traits/Gear.

No. It wasn’t. The question was “Would people get….frustrated that I’m not up front tanking in dungeouns etc?” I.E., pretty much everyone went off topic.

and yes they would because your performing significantly underpar with the bow in most situations. use the bow when melee is unfriendly, but if you went war you sould be melee most of the time.

If you want to sit back with a bow go ranger, or you could consider a thief, but thief should only use bow for trash as it is crap for single target such as bosses

Oglaf.1074:

That was not the question. The question was whether or not they can soak the damage, which they can with the right Traits/Gear.

while in most cases they can take the dmg, they do not take 100% of it cause the other group members will be targeted too. so solo a guard can take 100% but in a group good luck keeping every mob on you to take 100%

haviz.1340:

Flameseeker.1563:

Like i said we were mostly arah noobs doing p2 so we killed almost everything on the way just to be on the safe side.
Yet i still don’t think that even an experienced group will do less than 1h if they stop at every single group they find on the way.

If the mobs were like in the fractals, mostly vets with a few normal companions, I could take an extra min and actually enjoy slaughtering undead. As it is now you spend as much time killing 1 silver mob as killing a whole pack of vets and this isn’t anywhere near fun.
Just so i don’t get misunderstood, I’m not saying to remove all of those hp buffed kittens but make them only appear in a few checkpoints like in a door to prevent full dungeon running.

My view on dungeon running is that it should be allowed to some extent:
You could skip a few groups here and there, by sacrificing loot and having an harder time to run back in case of death, while still not being able to run through the whole thing.
It is ridiculous know on how much content you can skip at the moment but i hope it stays this way until they finally realize that trash mobs shouldn’t take that much time to kill.

Arah needs to lose those trash,, it’s simply too many of them. But changing them to vets isn’t good idea.

3silver > 1silver 2vet or 1silver 5vets and the problem is fixed

Iehova.9518:

Now, if you apply the same logic to CoE or Arah, that’ll just be bollocks. No one ever clears Arah trash and a guaranteed precursor is pretty much the only good enough reason to do it.

as they have already mentioned trash in its current state has too much HP, so once that is dropped killing them will be faster and less of a pain to do. add in reason (ie more tokens, better loot at end) and it becomes worth doing.

and really a precursor for clearing arah trash? great way to make them worth no gold at all and have no reason to kill trash LOL and its not like its that bad to kill the trash in Arah, it is better to skip but many pugs take longer to skip then to kill.

Oglaf.1074:

cesmode.4257:

There is no tanking in this game. Theres control, but no tanking. Guardians cannot sit and soak up 100% of the damage from all the mobs all of the time, warriors cannot do it either.

what is this tanking?

Guardians can definitely do it when specced right.

not 100% in any one spec. different mobs in GW2 have different priority as to who to attack (some different based on battle phase, ie lupi in Arah).

while there is a general best way if the guard loses it to a super high dps glass cannon he will likely not get it back till the GC is downed. Guard does not get initial agro may never get it in a good dps group

LordByron.8369:

Malediktus.9250:

LordByron.8369:

The fact is dungeons are somehow balanced on lvl 80 in exotics….or around certain classes.

Many people will say they can do them with one hand at level 1 with their monitor shut down, but from a player that plays almost only dungeons and fotm i can tell you to just ignore them, they would say they can solo arah explorer in all white items if someone said its too difficult……..

Imho its harder to bet a lvl 35 AC explorable, at lvl 35 that a lvl 30 fractal properly equipped…..

Also because at low level people cannot afford many things high lvl players use (food, potions proper equip/build etc etc etc).

False, they are balanced for their shown level. They are meant to be challanging. Obviously getting downscaled with exotic/ascended/runes/sigills/infusions all traits will make it easier.

cof, hotw and coe are way easier than AC.

If you want to show your skill on a forum making newbies think they just are not good enough for the game….well gratz…..

I pass 99% of my time in dungeons and high lvl fotm and i think AC is excessively hard for a lvl 35……

Hard =/= impossible……but for sure harder than any endgame dungeon.
There are fewer players able to face ac with a lvl 35 party than people able to complete hotw, and lvl 30 fotm possibly.

Also in any content the difference between a lvl 79, a lvl 80 and a lvl 80 exotic geared player is excessive and getting worse with ascended gear.

AC with all lv 35 alts in blue/green is a joke, but AC with a full set of new lv35’s in the same gear is hard. Why is this? well the alts have experience with this games system (much different from every other MMO) and know how to play. the new players do not yet understand how group dynamics work in GW2 and how to deal with dung runs go, making it seam more difficult then it is.

Now lv30 fractal or higher level dung are easier? well when you consider the extra experience in GW2 that people have by then it is to be expected. By the time your doing fractal 30 you know the fractals inside and out, know exactly what and when to dodge and have done them all MANY MANY times making them easy and Zzzz.

Take a fresh group of 80’s give them best gear and 30AR and toss them into a frac 30 (w/o ever doing a fractal before, or at max doing just the pre lv10 runs w/o agony and all mechanics, hell even give them the stratagies) and watch how bad they will fail, or how long it will take them.

It is simple, it takes time to adjust to the way the game works and this is why the first few dung are so hard to new players. and add the fact that many quickly take to the grave run strategy rather than figure out the proper way only makes it worse.

Dracones.9105:

It’d take way longer than a week to implement a proper LFG. A week wouldn’t even cover the meetings to discuss ways to implement it. And then even after the implementation has been set, a manager has to schedule out how many dev hours it takes, fit that into the project schedule and then watch as devs get sidetracked by the latest Emergency Gotta Fix It Now™ issue that crops up and sidetracks his devs and causes project goals to slip schedule.

And when the devs do get to work on it nobody took into consideration how Tom(who left the company months ago) designed element X to talk with protocol Y and things aren’t working out like everyone had hoped. So either more hours have to be committed or it’s back to the drawing board to find a work around.

Then there’s QA, which again has to be scheduled by another manager and made to fit into an already crunched schedule. And then, oh kitten, feature Y causes a server crash in QA. Everyone into meeting room 7 so we can whiteboard a work around for THAT issue now too. Who wrote that? Oh, Billy is stuck on another project that’s higher priority, so Frank is going to have to come up to speed on that section of code first.

Yeah, a week. LOL.

the top of the line one that would be best will take time yes, and likely a month or more.

but the game needs something and implementing something like a tab which mimics GW2LFG which alows us to click to join the LFM group or click to invite from the LFG tab could easily be done in a week. would this quick thing be final end of discussion LFG tool? absolutly not, but it gets something ingame that can be modified later and would satisfy 95% of the players. This could be done in a day with the rest of the week left to test to see if it results in some unexpected bugs/crashes

shield = sup sigil of energy.

why, well its a def item that I will only ever use when i need more def mid fight which likely means I will have already used my 2 dodges and having the 3rd one for heal/avoidance of a big hit to stay alive.

to be honest, my shield is really only ever equipped when I am in Arah and fighting Lupi to alternate the focus and shield 5’s when needed and to have the extra dodge if i miss time a dodge or get low on health after a bit of poorly timed lag.

Tinni.4351:

Shun.9475:

… well trying to find 4 people is difficult

http://www.gw2lfg.com/ – find 4 people is not difficult when you use this site.

it isn’t even difficult when you don’t use the site. its cal get into a decent guild and most of your group should fill with a single “/g LFM for XXX”, then a quick /m LF (remainign 1 or 2) followed by an alt/tab to post if no one responds to that. rarely takes more then 2min to fill a group unless maybe your wanting to do those ungodly long/buggy paths such as SE2, COF3, ARAH4 etc

Khal Drogo.9631:

Ashur Etil Lani.4518:

1 good jumper + portal gun + waypoint = run under 10 minutes.
Thats 60 tokens, so what if ori is worth less than gossamer my point still stands.
If you don’t use the candelabra exploits in cof path 1 that path is longer.

Err what? Whats the candelabra exploit? A good team speed run for COF path 1 is under 9 minutes without special gear etc. You get 2 bosses gold on their bodies and 3 chests. Thats why people are willing to ignore DR for COF. Unless u count mesmer portals as exploits, its 100% legit.

CoF path1 clearing every mob (ie actually doing the bridge) and running the balls (no mes trick) with a balanced group (ie. no 4war/mes like everyone wants for some reason) is still under 10min. the path is just a joke and anyone who does not realize this is just not that smart.

the 4war+1mes group only is a bunch of bullkitten and everyone knows it. to be honest I have seen too many of these setups run slower then just taking any random 5 people. the setup lacks so much that getting one or two under skilled players can slow down the group horribly (and the list of war who fall into this is HUGE).

First they need to fix the rolling balls so that a messmer can not blink past them (before they appear) and drop a portal for the group. portal is a legit stratagy, but the mes should still have to run it if his group can not do the easy run that takes 10seconds vs 3sec for the current mes trick.

next thing that needs to happen and I expect to see at least a step words this in the next patch is in class balancing, WAR need to have their dps toned down or if it stays where it is have their survivability lowered. If you read the dev’s stand on how class balancing is being done War shouldn’t be in their current state when compared to other classes and this will change people from wanting 4 war i think. War in max dps should be getting downed easily when trying to tank a boss.

The other thing that will fix the issue is an ingame dung finder which will most likely not allow for war/mes only group finding. while GW2lfg will still likely exist, most players will use the ingame tool making it harder to find these groups and eventially the external site will disappear with a real tool ingame.

The last thing that needs to happen and is inbound (when is a good question though) is re-balancing of paths for length/difficulty. Now unless they take the path of making the end rewards less/more based on length and difficulty where path 1 becomes worth next to nothing since you only kill 14mobs and takes less then 7 min (much less then any other dung done legit) the speed runs will go away. and even if they went the reduced reward way, reduced reward = not worth doing based on the mindset of those doing the WAR/mes farms

this is a MMORPG, you know what that stands for right OP? if not look it up, it means its not a solo game, get your head out of your kitten and play the game the way it is ment to play or go play a solo RPG if you want to only solo…

want to stop it? BANs must happen, but lets be serious here:

major exploit (aka last boss before starting and doing anything)
- 1st offense 3day ban,
-2nd offense perma ban
these are common sense things that it is not intended to be done and should be punished hard

minor exploit (aka standing on the top of the stairs in AC to kill path 1 or 3 boss where he can not hit you)
-1st offense warning
-2nd offense 1day ban
-3rd+ offense 3day ban
here you would be able to get a warning on each minor thing (ie different minor exploit in a different path would not lead to a ban) that you may not even realize is an exploit, but once you do it and get the warning if you continue to do it you should be penalized.

With doing this ANET would need to keep an up to date list of exploits on the forum (or a tab accessible from in game) and remove them as they fix them. This gives the player the ability to say you know i think this may be something we shouldn’t do, lets look. if its on the list then oh kitten lets not do that, and if it is not on the list it would be “safe” in that the most that could happen is get a warning

BlackPaw.5948:

How on earth the stair is an exploit???

It’s call tactics/ or terrain advantages. Not an exploit.

The stair is just there designed and put there for us to climb up and see the battlefield and then possibly use brain to think how we gonna do with this battle.

Then we think why don’t we attack from high ground???? it’s terrain advantage!

In battle, do you think the snipers/or hill/ or cliff/ or valley are exploits?? Do you want every soldier to charge in the slash each other with just swords with no brain??? so that is the only way of battle? We use tactics and plan ahead for battle.

This fight is battle also.. and it’s not break any game mechanics.

The exploit for example… is the snow flake.
Not this.

4 members up top with the person he has agro on standing with him so he can attack them may be legit, but all 5 running past all the breeders and up the stairs and afk ranged auto attacking him because nothing can get to the spot you go it is an exploit.

use of terrain is a legit strategy but the stairs, well if the mob can not attack you, or get to you, it shouldn’t stay there and just die. it should move away and hide so you must come out to attack or go invulnerable until it can attack the player it has agro on (it does not do this currently as it thinks it can attack you when it can not, thus why it is an exploit).

Iehova.9518:

Speaking of weapons, they should be skins like the winterkitten items, not actual weapons with no stats you have to waste fine stones on.

well the skins could possibly placeholders to later to be added ascended weapons which will have stats on them. with much of the backlash from the community about a new tear of gear they may have pulled back release of ascended weapons and mad them just a skin.

we will see ascended weapons at some point, and it may be replacing these or come from somewhere else.

even with the changes comming path 3 will still be uncommonly run, not because it is hard, but because it is long. and to be honest unless they adjust the defend most pugs that currently fail at the torches will now just fail at the next step which is actually harder (unless there is some glitch people use that I dont know about / dont care to use as it isnt needed)

the path1 speed run and a p2 if really need tokens will still be what happens in CoF, just slightly more p3 will be run then the almost none now. So until there is major rehaul of dung to balance paths time/difficulty don’t expect the changes to the “harder and longer” path to do much

Croth.6287:

So…

Spent 6+ hours today trying to do a level 20 fractal daily which I previously haven’t had trouble doing in an hour or less.

1st group: 2nd fractal – dc – people leave.

2nd group: 1st fractal – dc – people leave – we all come out to restart – dc again during 1st fractal.

3rd group: 1st fractal – lvl 80 warrior who doesn’t know what an elite skill is, auto attacks all the time, dies constantly. We finally manage to get through to the second fractal – Cliffside – someone DCs, people leave.

4th group: 2nd fractal – dc – people leave.

4th group 2nd try, we advertise for more people, enter and again someone dcs during the 2nd fractal – Cliffside. We try to 4 man it and fail, port back and quit.

5th group: getting more people and starting off with Ascalon, we get to the inner courtyard and as we start killing mobs, someone DCs. People port back and end up leaving.

After all this, I can take no more. Is it really that hard and game breaking to add an option to re-enter? Why does it take so long to apply what should of been a hot-fix? I already know it’s coming at the end of the month but how many more groups get to fail because someone DCs until you understand that people don’t like to 4-man dungeons that have been scaled up.

At this point I’m physically exhausted from having to constantly remake groups and fail time after time to even get past the 2nd fractal when normally this shouldn’t be an issue.

I’m trying really hard not to throw explicit language around but I think this time you deserve it.

Get your kitten together Anet.

if your having such an issues and frustration and don’t have people to run with from guild with stable connections why not just do other things in game for a week or two until they release the patch with the fixes to everything your having trouble with? its not like we have not known it is comming at the end of the month for 2weeks now…

never if they are smart, you should have to actually do some work to get best items in game!

while many of the bosses are not as exciting as they can be, no matter the MMO after a few runs everything is boring and easy, some in GW2 take less runs since they take longer so you get the basic mechanic down faster.

its the people you play with that make it fun. get a good guild and get to know people and use voice and things magically become much more fun! and if it isnt your likely running with the wrong people or playing the wrong type of game

the closest thing you will likely see in GW2 to stopping skipping is making tash weaker to where it becomes worth the time to kill to motivate people to kill them.

but sadly, it will likely never be a large enough change to actually make it worth it to most of the players to have it become the norm in pugs to not skip. you may find a shift to more wanting to kill, but it will likely never be the majority.

Blazed.8346:

Indeed, some dungeons are just way too hard and way too boring to do. Either the mobs have way to much HP or you die everywhere. It’s just plain boring

while I may agree that some mobs do have to much health, there is nowhere you should be “die everywhere”. I have done every dung without having a single member die, and even many paths without a single member being downed.

I also bet many of the “too much HP” is from people running bad builds, bad gear, and severely under-performing.

the problem is at 35 when you do your first dung everyone is still so used to:

1. solo play where they do not have support skills (not just not slotted when enter the dung, but likely have not even purchased them). unless you have done your research you may not have the correct skills to slot for dung play.

2. every other mmo. your a dps class, other mmo you just worry about dps and that does not work here. if your a tank you dont worry about healing yourself, does not work here. there is no tinaty to expect the tank to take all the dmg and a healer to help with what you take. thats not how this game works, some classes are better at taking hits and can keep mobs on them better, but everyone needs to be able to heal themselves for w/e amount of dmg they take when they do not dodge.

3. too many people do not stop to revive people in a downed state. this is the biggest reason groups wipe (and even happens with way to many lv80’s). someones health bar goes red, you need to revive them, or they will die and need to run back leaving you a man or more down making it even more likely to wipe.

4. not understanding what/when to dodge. this takes experience with the game to learn when to dodge and when not to. if you dodge more then you need to you may not have dodge up when it is actually needed and take a big hit. more runs in the same dung and playing more dung gets you this knowledge.

I run 3x Berserkers and 3x knights, with a mix of knights/berserker trinkets and health is never an issue in PvE (don’t use guard in PvP).

You can add more knights or some soldiers, but to be honest your just gimping your dmg and slowing your group down when you do. I do still carry my soldiers gear with me for Arah runs (lupi) and higher level pug fractals encase pugs get me killed enough to have a 2nd gear set, but 99% of the time its way overkill.

everyone who is out killing will get salvageable materials to get your cloth. only some players make a real effort to find the orich nodes to mine them (we do stop if its in our path, but many do not go out of their way to mine them). this leads to many more salvageable mats on TP (or mats if ppl salvage themselves) and keeps prices even or better for cloth I find.

is it unfair? i dont think so

as said above the snowflake was a special item they put in for event and didnt think it fully over that the crafted items could be broke down for ectos and people who abused this clear oversight to make mass amounts of gold where banned.

early days when next to no karma got an item you could break down for ectos was spammed over and over to make tons of cash, this was banable.

now using standard crafting recipies and making the cheapest ones and breaking them down hoping for luck (actually get ectos) to make some profit shouldnt be of any problem. Why is this? well if there is any profit in this people will do it and soon the demand for the materials will go up making the price go up and profit go down and you need to do something else. its how crafting markets work.

I would have to disagree with what is being said, 250 ectos is alot, but its not that hard to get done, takes about a week of farming/fotm/dung runs playing 3-4 hrs each day to get done (took me 5 days). 70g is not that much and by the time your looking to be making the infused level back there is likely nothing else you should still need to be spending the gold on (unless your looking for legendary, but if your willing to spend 900 gold for a SKIN you shouldn’t be QQ about 70g for AR).

where I disagree with everyone is the 2nd upgrade to make it glow, this should not be 250 ecto as it gives you nothing more than a skin, the upgrade to infused being 250 gives you AR so it is justifiable, but the just make it glow for 250 is a bit much.

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Same reason people run PVT gear. They don’t care about contributing, they just want to sit there and let other people do the work.

How is PTV gear not contributing? My Guardian with 23k HP and 3k Defence sitting there and soaking the damage so you don’t isn’t contributing?

while a guard in a bunker build to tank is a decent use of PTV gear, most classes should not be using it to contribute their best to the group. And even for a guard, there are very few places you need full PTV, try 3knights 3berzerker some time (basically trades 3k health for 10% crit and 15% crit dmg and a small amount of power), you should still live in all the same situations and at the same time put out significantly more dmg helping the group more overall.

is a PTV guard not contributing? well yes he is contributing, but not nearly as much as he can, and most other classes the difference in contribution when using PTV is even larger from what they could do and still survive the same amount.

thanks for the clarification Robert, I figured that would be the case but wanted to check as people dont want to run path 4 in its current state.

I’ll be looking forward to it to get dung master done since I never can find people willing to do it in its current state.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Njordfinn.4921:

thanks rob, i think i’ll try it in the next days

it is not in yet. I was just updating this to let everyone know I have looked into it and done a modification. The next time there is a content patch you should see the changes.

so there was a small patch yesterday, did this do live with that minor fixes or do you mean we will see it in the big January patch?

RedStar.4218:

Masharok.9428:

Explorable dungeons are more or less a grind. No one likes to grind. If there is grinding to be had, people will do whatever they can to get it done and over with. Is it sometimes annoying? Yes. Just make sure before starting to ask if anyone is doing exploits if you don’t want to.

The only way to make people do it right is to find some way to get them their reward without making it feel like a grind. Not an easy thing to do for Anet or any other company without making it too easy, unfortunately

But that’s the thing : except for very few exploits, they don’t make the run faster. They make it less risky while making it longer.
Of course, it’s the same with skipping monsters : it’s faster to skip unless half your team dies and you lose time. But skipping is rather straight forward and rarely depends on any sort of player skills.

It’s simply annoying to be in PuG clearly capable of doing things normally at a good speed, but because most of them never did it, having to lose time and making the fight horribly boring.

SirDrygan.1823:

So, in real life, a sniper is exploiting hidden position to snipe the enemies, and yet the SWAT team and police also deploy snipers when taking down the bad guy.

Now, I am a ranger, with a bow and arrow. My job is to shot from far and hit the enemy. So, I stand on a tree and I shoot at the enemy. Of course, if the enemy found my position, they can shoot back.

So, let’s take a boss in a dungeon for example. 4 legged lizards boss. Everyone stand on a stairs and shoot at the boss, but the boss can’t shoot back. It cannot jump or have ranged or it’s ranged attack is not long enough. We have the advantage. Many of you call this exploit, some call this strategy.

In a real war, enemies had guns. The boss in AC path 1 doesn’t have anything to hit back. He simply sits there waiting for you to kill him.
You have ranged weapons because others have melee weapons, thus capturing his attention while you kill him from afar.

In many games, even in GW2, when a monster cannot hit you while you are attacking him from a higher position, he becomes invulnerable. For some reason, this isn’t the case for a lot of dungeon bosses, that’s why it’s considered by many to at least be a bug.

if you stood on top the of stairs with guns shooing down on people with swords they would?
a. stand there and look at you till they die?
b. run for cover to a place you can not shoot?
c. run up the stairs and smack you in the face?

I bet the answer is not A, and this is why the situation is not correct in game. Now, yes, some of this is on Anet for not having something that makes the boss invulnerable when your in a place that can not be hit or things of that nature (normal for an MMO to keep this type of exploit from happening), but either way it is an exploit (you are exploiting the fact that Anet did not put something into the code to deal with this your up on a ledge let me stand here and look like i’m alone till i die).

LordByron.8369:

i agree it should be gated in tiers
A lvl 1 may join a lvl 9.
A lvl 1 shouldn t join a lvl 30…

so my main is in the 20’s with 25AR (could get 30 w/e i want) and i have 25AR waiting for my new alt when he hits lv 80. My alt is a lv1 fractal with enough AR to go to lv 29 and have no issues at all, why cant he?

now a new player who’s max is on lv1 (ac crossed all characters) shouldn’t join a lv30 out of common sense, they do not have any experience or AR, but this is no reason to say they cant join a 10 – 19 where they can survive (you do not really need AR till 20, but its very nice to have). given the rewards will be based as they are a lv1, they will not try to get to 30 to start unless they are that stupid, and it will likely only happen once.

I would be shocked if there is no way to see a players fractal rank for AR when you enter to avoid this issue as I know some people are stupid enough to try and jump into the high from lv 1, but most are not. When you see lv1 you may just need to ask if they have a higher level with experiance that they have passed rings to from.

try 1, get a good guild, rarely should you need more then 1 or max 2 pugs to fill a group after just asking in /g.

2, try LA not the area of the zone, works better

3, use gw2lfg.com, works great, no risk, very easy to fill the last few spots from a guild run. groups fill fast and can sometimes be a pain to /join as it is always full already

but realy, getting a group for most dung is not that hard. some dung paths are harder than others and will be harder to get a pug for (or you realy dont want to waste your time with a pug on them), but most can be done easy.

why not just make it so you can not kick someone while in combat. this end the kick people just before boss dies crap. you can still kick someone who is stupid after you wipe, or when the person DCs, but it removes 95% of the reasons people have issues with.

Mesket.5728:

guild run reward is a good idea.

regarding bringin a pug and kicking him later wouldnt be a problem is the reward is only granted when the dungeon is completed by 5 (not 4, not 4; but 5) members of the same guild.

no it just becomes, ok last boss now kick pugs, in guild last boss of XX, come get your 60 tokens and get us our guild reward. everyone loves to just do the last boss for full rewards.

the only way something like this would work is if the group is majority from one guild (3+ members of same guild) each boss killed will give say 1 guild dung X token into the bank. maybe a bonus if it is all 5 from a guild.

this gives a reason to not only do guild runs, but also you still can get the bonus if you bring in 1 or 2 pugs, helping the community.

Turial.1293:

If you think it is bad now, wait until Orr, now that place needs to fix their timer. If you kill something there it will respawn before you have even had a full out of combat regen, crazy.

you need to up your dps then because orr isnt that bad to kill multiple mobs before anything respawns

Daishi.6027:

woot 3-6 gold depending on the day just to get 5 fine transmutation stones.

I’ve heard of a money synch but that’s kind of ridiculous.

so you need to spend 2-3 hours working to get the gold to convert to jems to get the transmutation stones to make your gear look like you want? Seems like very little work if you ask me

and what about the thief’s who do not use conditions but use the trait in a PvE dung build as a healing source for some content?

I typically run initiative regen, but there are some bosses (mainly fractals) that the switch is needed and without the extra heals i’m as good as dead in. If it was made to heal when a condition is applied i’d heal on.. very few attacks and be a useless thief on the floor too much in some fights.

There are already enough “bad rep” for theifs from those who are always on the ground and bring very little to a group in PvE, lets not make it worse by potentially messing with a healing method that currently works for both crit and condition builds and make it only viable in a condition build…

nothing is worse than doing the pre-event, a 7min path 1 and then needing to redo the pre-event to do path2 all on the same server.

it should be a 1hr minimum open dungeon once you open it…

you also receive DR quickly for doing the same path in that time period

speed is always a factor of player skill more than class.

yesterday I joined a 4war pug with my thief for p1, and it was one of the slowest runs I have ever had, spent more time rezzing then dpsing cause the wars were so bad.

All of this war only crap has lead everyone to run up a war (war is so easy/fast to level) to run with and there are so many kittenty wars running around now that unless I know the person I almost prefer anything but a war since most of them suck anyways.

stof.9341:

Striker.9413:

Grinding odds for levels will be faster as you can skip Jade Maw.

But it does give you less tokens per time spent. Jade Maw is easy and rather quick and gives more tokens for completion.

your assuming people actually want fractal relics. anyone who is a serious gamer pushing fractals has likely already made their backs and once you have the infused back what else do you need fractal relics for? 20slot bags? skill points? hoard them encase they add something good?

25gold (about the cost of a back currently) vs 1850 fractal relics for back is an easy choice for most people, 25gold is easy to make and alot faster than 1850 relics. And, lets be honest, if your grinding fractals to level fast, you want the fast path to the back, not the slow fractal relic path

I also recently switched from p/p, trying some other combinations. I do like S/P (we are talking PvE, mainly dung, so your still best being glass for this setup), and use either of my two p/p builds:

25/30/0/0/15 – tons of initiative, great dmg
0/30/0/25/15 – tons of initiative, decent dmg, acro 20 can be switch for heals when needed

I love the 1st build when I am playing with a balanced guild group with a tank who keeps mobs still and grouped up. You can stay in one spot and spam PW all day for max damage.

But when you don’t have a real tank, and your taking dmg the first build can fall a bit short (you will be downed too much). While it may be better in this situation to just go and use p/p for this group to do reasonable dmg, the second build will sacrifice a little dmg for more health, heals, and more mobility .

both builds have about the same +% dmg bonuses and work great, but the 1st one has an extra 250 might and +5% to dual skill (ie PW) while he second has might on dodges and more dodges, more health, and either more initiative regen or healing.

I tend to prefer build 2 for fractals as some group setups and bosses are just a bit difficult without the extra health/healing if the group does not have specific skills available (and making the correct group isn’t always an option). With the correct group makeup, and set of fractals the first build can put out ridiculous damage and not worry about deaths.