Guild Wars 2

I’m running an AH build and am currently using Knight’s rare crafted (+precision, power, toughness).

I was looking into the options at the exotic level and wanted opinions on what stat combinations might make the most sense.

The three that caught my eye were the Karma based armors:

1) Arcon of Dwayna – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcon_armor_of_Dwayna
2) Mortal of Grenth – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mortal_armor_of_Grenth
3) Whispering of Infiltration – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whispering_armor_of_Infiltration

The idea is to continue the precision, toughness aspect of stats while adding more vitality. Healing isn’t wasted since this is a “regen” type of build (although I understand healing stat flatlines).

Any opinions (or am I looking in a totally wrong direction)?

EDIT – Also can you overwrite the runes that come with the Karma sets with runes you’d rather have?

Sarne.4528:

As topic says… Has ArenaNet stated why dungeons do not give karma? I’ve looked a bit, but didn’t see any mention of it.

I mention this because zerg farming karma just makes my mind go numb. I enjoy doing dungeons and would enjoy them much more if karma was included in the reward. My thoughts would be that each boss/event in the dungeon would give karma just like real world events. With this mechanic, they could be subject to the same diminishing returns as the rest of the dungeon (100%, 50%, 25%, etc…assuming that is even working correctly)

Thoughts or source to Anet’s reasoning on this would be great! Thanks.

If I’m correct there are different paths to gearing up:

1) Dungeons
2) Karma
3) PvP
4) Crafting
5) Exploration (albeit I’m not sure you could totally gear up this way given random chance)

It seems that ANet doesn’t want to overlap these (i.e. no double dipping). This would also explain why dungeon drops are almost non-existent (no farming crafting mats).

So if I’m following you correctly ….

1) Level does not make the player.
2) I’m not a terrible player, just using unsound tactics.
3) My unsound tactics work because of my higher level.
4) In one week’s time I improved at playing GW2 that dramatically.

Hmmmmm.

While I understand the psychology behind “did it = easy / couldn’t do it = hard” I’m not sure I agree with the assertions you’ve made but I’m willing to cede that I could be very wrong here …. I’m always looking for ways to improve

I will concede that gear level ratio, stat orientation, build orientation had a lot to do with our successes, however all of those are dramatically improved with more levels (with the exception of gear level ratio of course).

However the point of the post was two fold:

1) If you’re leveling up and getting discouraged with the dungeons, don’t. They do become easier with levels and gear (and of course, experience).

2) The level progression of dungeons in GW2 is nonsensical as it stands currently, since even the most hardened L2P crowd admits that they are much easier at max level.

If level/gear does not make a difference, how do you explain the different experiences in AC (for example) at L30 and then again at L80?

If we were horrible players a week ago, we’re probably horrible players still, no?

Mmmm not sure I agree with you (but appreciate the points made).

I’ve run dungeons in a multitude of MMOs since EQ. Some are easier and some are tougher (with and without gear and so on) and I would readily admit to not understanding the game mechanics if that were the case.

However, given my experiences and those of my friends (who are also long time MMO vets of the dungeon crawling variety) I don’t believe this to be the case (and let’s face it, not standing in fire is not exactly a hard concept to grasp).

L2P certainly has its place, but when you have to say it too much, then maybe its not everyone else?

Don’t do them until you’re L80.

We ran AC and CM when we were level appropriate. Completed AC story and half of AC Explorer 3. Did half of CM story mode. Gave up and went on our way with the intent of revisiting them when we were L80.

Hit L80, geared up, revisited the dungeons … no problem whatsoever. They were challenging (at least on the initial clearing), fun and well thought out by and large. We had a full wipe now and again (usually learning a new mechanic) but otherwise found ourselves able to adjust on the fly, defeat most encounters and generally have fun doing them. It was like night and day.

The game, Rift (and even WoW) had a similar setup between having level appropriate dungeons and then max level versions. These scaled with the appropriate levels well. The current stat/level scaling in GW2 seems a bit off in that regard (hence the overwhelming difficulty attempting GW2 dungeons when level appropriate (Arah aside)).

While I enjoy the dungeons now, does anyone else feel like this is a totally broken design, alienating players from some really good content as they level up?

Regarding active vs. passive …. I do not disagree with you about auto attacking being passive. And while the SoW change does elongate the time you will spend watching your auto attack, I didn’t find that it changes the scope of the play. That was my only point. It certainly didn’t make it more dynamic (although more leaps in a given time is kind of nice … so maybe not as bad as all that?).

Well, I’ve done dungeons and I’ve done dynamic events both before and since. I will agree that the change is most noticeable in dungeons but to my point, it hasn’t effected how I play in them. I still use the GS and I haven’t noticed a greater/lesser degree of success/failure. However I do notice a difference in performance here so I do agree with you on this point.

Dynamic Events I haven’t noticed that much of a difference at all … if it’s a tagging issue, I swap to Staff in between GS cycles. I still kill mounds of mobs fast.

PvP I’m still getting my feet wet with so I can’t speak to that although I’d be highly dubious that a short duration immobile ground effect CD change would drastically (or at all) change your mode of play. Conversely, how can you not be jumping for joy about a shorter cool down on one of your gap closers?!

I’m not trying to minimize how you feel about an issue effecting a class you (we?) love to play, nor do I agree with the scope of the change as explained to us by ANet. However I don’t believe it changes the class meaningfully (except maybe for Retaliation builds), if that makes any sense?

MajorMelchett.6042:

Sometimes it feels kinda sluggish, yeah – not everytime though for some weird reason. But the bigger annoyance for me is, if you so much as much a millimeter (hard to do in furious combat) you don’t get any of the invulnerability or any of the virtues reset – yet you get the FULL 90 second cooldown.

They perhaps should mame it root you to the spot (or better yet, cast on the move ).

Basically I’ve had the same experiences.

Can be a tad sluggish … hard to gauge if that’s the power or any lag (either client of server) that may be going on at the time (I’ve had similar issues with other skills from time to time).

RF pairs nicely with either talented Virtues and/or Altruistic Healing builds. I use it more for the “blow my virtues, buff the group, get healed and reset” then the 3 seconds of invulnerability itself (that really huge hit coming aside).

Are you unable to do something now with a GS build that you could do before as a result of the change (other than kill a mob a few seconds faster)? It’s an honest question, because if you answer “yes” then there’s our basis of disagreement. For me, I can do exactly what I did before in the exact same fashion. For me, the only change was that kill speed went down by a few seconds (literally). I can solo what I solo’d before. I can do what I did in a group before. So to that extent, the changes really aren’t much more than an annoyance.

As for the active vs. passive play style preference … for me, I don’t equate having another keystroke per 5 seconds (essentially the difference between the CD changes between SoW and LoF) as creating an active or passive effect in my total play style. GW2 in general promotes an active play style amongst all its classes, and I don’t find that these changes have changed that aspect of the Guardian for me (ymmv of course).

The biggest issue with my play style, is the rearrangement of the perma hot keys. Hence, annoying.

Animus.6073:

Kruunch.3714:

Eveningstar.6940:

Conclusion

The Greatsword changes do not reduce your damage at all in shorter fights (i.e, less than, say, 12-15 seconds) and may actually improve it. In longer fights, you will see a modest damage loss from the increased cooldown of Symbol of Wrath, but only in situations where you’re dropping Symbol down every ten seconds, and the enemy is staying inside the radius of Symbol for the entire duration. Furthermore, your only Leap finisher gets a lot better, and Greatsword gets significantly better at Combo Finishers, and your Blind options and Sword/Focus synergy becomes significantly better.

So, a modest if situational, weapon-dependent nerf coupled with a modest, less situational but also weapon dependent buff.

Seems like an okay trade-off. A small overall nerf at worst, but hardly the game breaking, Guardian killing, klaxon activating nerf to the ground you’re painting it to be.

Agree 100%.

The SoW nerf was more annoying than game changing and the shorter cool down on the leap is actually turning out to be more helpful (at least for me).

Those who feel like the SoW nerf wasn’t a major impact either haven’t done the math or don’t play the Greatsword in heavily focused symbol builds. If you fall into either of those categories, the change may have been nothing more than annoyance, but keep in mind that there are many of us who are feeling the impact.

Even if you haven’t done the math and even if you don’t focus on a Symbol build, you should feel a lot less active while doing any PvE content. The 15 second recharge applied to the Leap in no way makes up for the lack of on demand damage and combo fields granted by the Symbol. If you want more active combat, you can find it on other weapon sets (not the Hammer, either, which is also a problem), or another profession. If stagnant and passive play is your style, then stick with the Greatsword; you won’t notice much of a difference.

Obviously the changes are subjective. Some “feel” them harder than others. Yes, I find the increased CD on SoW annoying. No, I don’t find that it diminishes my effectiveness or play style overly. Yes, I play a GS Guardian the vast majority of the time (always have). No, I don’t agree with you.

That doesn’t mean I’m right and you’re wrong (or vice versa) … just our respective opinions.

P.S. – The active/passive play style spin makes no sense to me.

Animus.6073:

Unfortunately, at least the last time I checked, Inner Fire is not proc’d by Zealot’s Flame. I think Inner Fire only works if you are actually inflicted with a burning condition.

Bah!

Eveningstar.6940:

Conclusion

The Greatsword changes do not reduce your damage at all in shorter fights (i.e, less than, say, 12-15 seconds) and may actually improve it. In longer fights, you will see a modest damage loss from the increased cooldown of Symbol of Wrath, but only in situations where you’re dropping Symbol down every ten seconds, and the enemy is staying inside the radius of Symbol for the entire duration. Furthermore, your only Leap finisher gets a lot better, and Greatsword gets significantly better at Combo Finishers, and your Blind options and Sword/Focus synergy becomes significantly better.

So, a modest if situational, weapon-dependent nerf coupled with a modest, less situational but also weapon dependent buff.

Seems like an okay trade-off. A small overall nerf at worst, but hardly the game breaking, Guardian killing, klaxon activating nerf to the ground you’re painting it to be.

Agree 100%.

The SoW nerf was more annoying than game changing and the shorter cool down on the leap is actually turning out to be more helpful (at least for me).

I run side by side with a Warrior and while his damage is nice, my survivability is so much better (judging by how often I have to revive him )

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

100% agree with OP. Also This deserves an developer response.

My suggestion 10 or 12 sec cd (if you really want push it, 12 could be still ok-ish) for symbol. Remove or nerf the retaliation. Add something else, like vigor maybe? Or might?

And we might be back again to having some fun.

Fury would be really nice.

Schroedingercat.7065:

kruunch any symbol with a blast combination will proc retaliation (hammer)

Ah … that’s probably one of the reasons Brutaly loves his crithammer build. Nice synergy!

I’m looking at Sword and Torch as my swap to … I’m really liking the idea of Inner Fire (Radiance IV – When you are set on fire you gain Fury (+20% crit chance)) and Zealot’s Flame (Torch #4 – Set yourself alight, periodically burning up to three nearby foes). Assuming that Zealot’s Flame sets off Inner Fire, which would also proc Altruistic Healing (not to mention the crit bump to Empowering Might).

I’m also missing the extra teleport that Sword gives me (as opposed to what I get with Staff).

Not sure any combo finisher of the Guardian generates a boon?

But if they did, I’d think of it as more gravy as opposed to integral to the build (considering CDs, timing and opportunity).

Honor is less about the +healing than it is about the Traits (both active and passive), Vitality (larger health pool) and setup for an Altruistic Healing build (w/ Empowering Might).

There is no “main healer” in GW2 and attempts to create one will just be frustrating (imo). However the Guardian can pour out a lot of healing to both himself and his group … think small and many.

Karez.1375:

EDIT: Tested it with +20% Boon duration Bufffood with and without Superior Rune of Earth . Yep it is a tooltip bug, the actual durations are fine!

Thanks Kruunch!

My pleasure. I noticed that there have been a number of tool tip inconsistencies that way to date. Tends to happen in all early MMOs where traits/specs effect base skills/effects’ CDs.

Mattius.2549:

Kruunch.3714:

Why not just reduce Retaliation damage for the Guardian?

Thats the worst idea ever. Changing base mechanics in such a way would break the game.

Well if the idea was that perma-Retaliation builds were game breaking (which Anet seemed to feel that they were, hence the change) you can change it in one of two ways …. make it so you can’t perma-Retaliate (which they did, and effected a half dozen non-perma Retaliation builds in the process) or change the damage (i.e. the “game breaking” mechanic) on Retaliation and effect only that build.

Sort of like fixing a leaky water pipe by patching it instead of “fixing” the whole plumbing. Some times a patch is all you need.

nemeth.4196:

Do you people actually believe that Anet didn’t consider all those things? Do you really think that the internal tests that Anet is doing (in their own words, it takes up to a week or more to test all and any changes) didn’t discover that they are affecting more than just retaliation builds?
Do you seriously belive that you, just you were the FIRST one to discover all these combinations?
Please…

Obviously Anet didn’t figure this out the first time, hence the change.

I agree with the OP that the nerf is greater than the fix in this case because of all the builds that a longer CD symbol effects. Why not just reduce Retaliation damage for the Guardian?

Check to make sure that it isn’t just a display bug. That would be a bit harder to do with Protection, but you should notice it with Regeneration.

Oh and one other thing … using a Sigil of Strength (% chance on crit to proc might, no internal cool down) is amazing in this build.

Oh and I did mess with using the virtue cool downs with Renewed Focus. Very good combo (I’ve used this combo before running the AH build and liked it). I’m still on the fence about this setup versus Tome of Courage. My gut feeling is that Tome of Courage (at least for PvE situations) is more game changing for myself and my group then Renewed Focus; while Renewed Focus gets used more than Tome of Courage (especially when solo).

I was running AH last night in a 0/10/30/30/0 build using GS/Staff signets / shouts. I had been using GS/ sword + focus previously … I think I like the GS / Staff combo better (although this might change in PvP). Thanks to Animus for pointing that out.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mmcV0z0MzmRNvomRNvm0axx0MoVqoRa8khT707khT707khT707kIw70m7kuH7owX70m

The healing was amazingly good (solo’d a champion (melee based) and life never went below 70% … solo’d a vet (melee based) and life never went below 98%). Did Jormag, and kept the raid alive to the tune of +80% by_myself (unfortunately I tested this by not doing anything to see how many would drop without my symbols / shields …. teehee).

Swapped Pure of Heart (Honor VI – Aegis heals on removal) for Writ of Exaltation (Honor III – Symbols are larger) and in group situations it was like night and day (larger symbols ftw).

Next is to try this out in pvp and then dungeons. I think I may switch back to the GS / sword + focus combo for the mobility in PvP but will try both.

I’m also going to mess around with the AH build and Brutaly’s crithammer some more. Thanks a ton to Brutaly (and everyone else) for all the input. It’s been a real eye opener!

P.S. – Mace + focus or mace + shield was excellent but lack of mobility and control made for some rather frustrating kiting situations.

P.P.S. – Not to get embroiled in the virtues vs. shouts debate, but I find that the virtues line would (conceptually) dent my DPS too much. Is this in fact so in your guys’ experience?

I’ve been following the Crithammer discussions although I would think GS would work better with Altruistic Healing and Empower (more chances to crit in a pure AOE build no?)

So if you are running Altruistic Healing … would you gain more use out of Tome of Courage or Renewed Focus?

And yes I’m going off on a tangent here … all sorts of builds just opened themselves up to my eyes

Wait … Altruistic Healing procs on Boons that give to yourself only as well?

i.e. Retaliatory Subconscious (Virtues IV) procs Altruistic Healing?

Reading the wiki it appears that it does (but I’m leary of how trait effects translate).

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Altruistic_Healing

Awesome thanks man!

Does Strength in Numbers (Valor IV – Nearby allies gain +30 toughness) proc Altruistic Healing (Valor XI – Applying a boon to allies heals you)?

Sorry if this has been asked and answered previously (I did search for it).

Thanks in advance!

Thanks for the feedback!

@Schakal: I’ve read referrals to Explorers and only have seen the L65 version on the BLTC. My bad for assuming. Thanks for the correction.

Cruising a bunch of a threads here I noticed a bunch of L80 Guardians recommend wearing Explorer’s gear (L65 yellows) for wPvE. Presumably this is for the +magic find. Since I’m approaching L80, I’m wondering if I should be holding on to my Explorer’s gear for this.

Opinions?

So essentially Retaliation is a damage shield?

Wish they would just say damage shield hehe.

Thanks for the reply and the clarity

P.S. – This makes the changes they’ve implemented to the Guardian line seem rather like fixing the wiper blades on Christine.

Phoenix the One.4071:

Please search the forum for answer or wiki first.
But no you take dmg even with retaliation up, and it is a semi-static number.. so if you are hit for 10k. or for 100 it should do the same amount of dmg.

So it doesn’t lessen any of the amount of incoming damage (I always hate when games use the word “reflect” in a defensive ability)?

I have read the wiki and forums … I see everyone use the word “reflect” (including Anet) and in context it would seem that it would lessen incoming damage … in practice I haven’t seen this however.

Hence the stupid question.

Does Retaliation block all of the incoming damage AND reflect a portion back, or does it block just the portion of the damage it reflects back (or does it not reduce any incoming damage)?

Thanks in advance.

I agree 100% with the OP.

The risk vs. reward ratio is completely out of whack with current dungeon design.

Kind of odd considering that the open world content is similar but going the opposite direction (more reward for less risk).

TL;DR version at the bottom.

So me and my buddies hit 30+ and decide to take a crack at the dungeons of GW2. We’re all long time MMO vets, who particularly enjoy dungeon crawling.

We hit the Ascalonian Catacombs (story mode) with 3 people at first (some of us are allergic to PUGs) just to get our feet wet. Takes us about an hour to get through the first two bosses. The bosses themselves were not so bad … the real heart attack was the double (and triple) silver vet Ranger pulls. I wished PC Rangers played that well

We come back with our other buddy (so four of us now) and clear story mode. Overall I enjoyed the experience. The different paradigm to other MMO dungeons (no main healer or tank) was refreshing and made the fights (even the same ones) interesting and dynamic. Hard but not unenjoyably so.

We come back for explorer mode with the same four in the group and have similar experiences as we did in story mode (even with the different encounters). We clear the first three bosses up to the burial mounds (we chose to go the route of the King and followed Hodgins throughout) and found ourselves stuck without a fifth (we think) as we were unable to handle the multiple spawns with just four. Overall we came away thinking the encounters were well done … again hard but not unenjoyably so.

Pros:

1) Enjoyable degree of difficulty. Some will disagree vehemently with this I know and I would absolutely hate to try to PUG these dungeons.

2) New paradigm of self sustaining toons is very well done and refreshing. Not the same old scripted and formulaic fights. While some old formula rules still exist, the lack of healer/tank setup lends to more dynamic fights overall.

3) Traps! Finally … after umpteen ages since EQ and EQ2, an MMO reintroduces the concept of traps. Kudos for remembering what dungeons are supposed to be like. Could use a bit more creativity here though (how many times can we see the same flame breathing gargoyle head and spike trap?). Now if only we could find secret doors and passages.

Cons:

1) Risk vs. Reward is totally blown. Nice hard dungeons … crappy loot. Why would anyone do these a second time (or a first after reading this)? The token system (later on) is not enough (imo). Unique risks deserve unique rewards, and high risk deserve high rewards (both in exp and loot). Most people will come to realize they could have made more money, got better upgrades and levelled faster by doing something else. Big no no in game design here imo and probably my #1 problem with the dungeon design thus far.

2) Some encounters are bit over tuned. Having to remember what combination of weapon and skills load outs you may need (x5) per encounter is a bit tedious (not to mention the mechanic of wiping to get to “know” the encounter). I feel this is one of the sore points of GW2 in general though (personal peeve I know).

3) Multi death scenarios are always bad game design, but this mode of design seems to be en vogue throughout MMOs these days for lack of creative balance and risk/reward. The obvious graveyard zerg strategy that the majority of players will fall back on when doing these dungeons just makes me feel dirty inside.

TL;DR: Liked the dungeon. Loved the difficulty. Hated the lack of rewards (coin, items, exp) for effort spent.

BTW, Eveningstar did you play Rift?

Your guide reminds me of Sodahelm/Ciderhelm’s guides.

Eveningstar.6940:

Are you using Finishers in overlapping fields? If two people have combo fields down in the same place, priority goes to the first field, then the second.

Sometimes you won’t see the name of the combo effect trigger, but it should still trigger. Can anyone else confirm that? I’ve experienced that a few times while grouping.

No, I was testing simply trying to set off my own combo field with my own combo finisher. The randomness of Cleansing Bolts fits my observations though.

I haven’t paid specific attention to the name, however I do know that sometimes it will play my toon’s sound bite and sometimes not (depending on what’s going on around me). I’m not sure if the effect happens regardless of that (most specifically in the cases of boons and conditions that are applied).

P.S. – Great guide Eveningstar …. helped a ton

Awesome thanks!

Regarding combo fields and finishers … when using GS, #2 is a combo field and #3 is a combo finisher. However I seem to only get the finisher boon randomly.

Is there more to combo fields and finishers other than activating one, and then the other while the first is still active?

Thanks in advance!