Guild Wars 2

Without getting further into pop-psychology (because it does seem that tangent consistently creeps into these posts), I can say I had a blast exploring the world, doing the events, doing the hearts, jumping puzzles, etc …

The problem is that I managed to do all of this in three weeks on a relatively relaxed schedule (2-3 hours a day, 5 days a week for 3 weeks). This includes 86% world exploration, having run every dungeon (at least once), achieving L80, achieving 400 skill in two different crafting professions, and doing wPvP and sPvP.

Here is the issue … I still want to play … but there’s no content left (no meaningful content), and no character progression.

So what I’m left with is:

1) PvP without reward (the best most incredible reward I can get for PvP is different looking armor … and not particularly better looking armor imo). PvP for PvP sake is fun in and of itself, but not sustainable (how many times can you beat someone over the head with a stick for no other reason than to … beat someone over the head with a stick?)

2) Dungeon grinding for the same lack of rewards that I’d get from PvP (which gives me less incentive to do it since PvP at least can be dynamic and fun).

That’s it … all the other stuff mentioned is that “check box” stuff you just panned (and fluff stuff of which some I’m interested in, but not to the extent to keep me interested in giving ANet more money).

Even the “legendary” weapon (which is something that would normally attract my attention) is fluff, since it’s a lot of effort for a new skin only.

The one thing that really angers me (and should anger you), is that even if you buy into that load of crap that is “do it just for fun” (isn’t that what we do any game for?!) and do all this fluffy stuff and get the Legendary for its looks and grind all those armor pieces for just the “right” look … then you have to spend real money to get the Fine Transmutation Stones to change your looks!

Hell no!

Bad business model!

I often find that if you have to explain to someone how to enjoy your game, then you’ve done it wrong.

Or I’ve done it wrong (certainly a possibility).

But since it’s my money I won’t be spending with said company, either way, they’re still getting the short end of the stick.

You see? It’s not a question of right or wrong.

Even though you have a “tank” build, you cannot really recreate a classic MMO meat shield tank in GW2.

For two reasons:

1) Mobs do too much damage of varying types (i.e. bypass your build)

2) You don’t have a main healer keeping you up.

Tank builds are fine but never think you’re going to be able to “tank” in GW2 the way you did in other MMOs. You will still need to run, dodge, kite, trade agro, etc …

Some of my best “tanking” in GW2 has been done while kiting.

P.S. – The Guardian forums might be a place you’d get more in depth answers on how to play your Guardian.

Kasama.8941:

Yeah no. I’m not so self involved that I don’t realize what GW2 is.
ANet made a nice game but not sustainable. It won’t draw the same type of ire that other similar MMOs (Champions Online, SWTOR, etc …) have drawn simply because ANet (et al) can fall back on the “no-sub fee” model. It was well thought out.
I just wish their end game had been as well thought out.

All games end. The only difference is whether or not you are prepare to repeat the content that it handed to you. You could also say that after you’ve finished a raid in WoW, that you’ve “done” that. But people still come back, because they feel like they’ve gotten an experience out of it. Some players also play the same single player game for years, because they enjoy it, even after playing it for the 1000 time. This whole idea of endless endgame content is an illusion. You’re just repeating content, with a minimal amount of changes. The only reason why Guild Wars 2 seems different, is because it never stretches out the content that it presents, but cuts the bullkitten out. Basically, instead of putting the carrot on a stick, Guild Wars 2 just hands it to you. And the great thing about this is; you can do other things in your life, while still being able to keep up with the game. That’s what the game is build around. ArenaNet said it themselves many times even before release, that players shouldn’t look at Guild Wars 2 as a replacement for their current games, but as an addition.

Also, there’s no way you’ve done all that content in only thirty hours of playtime.

By that logic, no game should have more content than it takes to complete in a few seconds and is repeatable. In practicality, an MMO needs to have multiple forms of recurring content that rewards the player and continues some form of progression. GW2 has very littler recurring content; multiple levels of PvP (good), and dungeon token farming (ok) but both of these suffer from lack of character progression past updating your pretty panties. Lack of progression makes for lack of endgame.

Any MMO that can be completed in two weeks, isn’t really an MMO.

@akamon:

1) Read above. To add to that, a good end game revolves around multiple avenues of progression once you’ve hit the level cap in an MMO with a level structure. The business model is a simple one … keep the players playing for sub fees (not applicable to GW2), micro transactions (applicable), and expansion purchases (applicable).

2) What I expected from GW2 was pretty much what I got (and what is) with the exception of character progression, which literally stops at max level and the minutest effort to equip exotics. There’s stuff to do … but fluff can only carry you so far and fluff (cutesy stuff that does not actually add to your character’s progression) is the only end game GW2 offers.

To that effect, it fails as an MMO and at the very least, loses out on any additional potential revenue from me as I now understand that it is a very limited game for an MMO.

Lack of sub fees however keep me from feeling like I’ve been ripped off, so I leave the game with a neutral feeling. Sort of like pixie sticks … fun for the very small amount of time I use them and forgotten in the next instant.

Unfortunate considering how much effort and good stuff ANet put into its game world which I like a lot.

Ahhhhhhhhh.

/15 chars.

I’m sure this has been asked/answered to death but I can’t see to find the answer so here goes …

I have 89 Black Lion Chests. To date, I’ve gotten 4 Black Lion Chest Keys. I have 86% of the world explored. I’ve participated in every event I’ve come across (including all of the “big monster” events). I’ve explored nooks and crannies galore and have found tons of little Easter Eggs (but only one key in one chest … ever).

Am I missing how to obtain more keys or are they this purposefully low a drop rate and if so, for what reason (considering the fairly low end rewards)?

Thanks in advance.

Luminastik.6958:

@Kruunch, that’s incorrect actually, the extra node is a WvW world bonus

Oh … possibly.

Wasn’t paying attention to the WvW bonus at the time. Would explain why it seems to come in random spurts then

Sardonia.8196:

I am not certain what there is to spend Karma on. I currently have a full set of exotic magic find gear and a full set of exotic battle gear. I have over 200K worth of Karma and I an not certain to what to purchase with it. I know there is other gear for Karma, however, I do not need that anymore.

It would be nice if dungeon gear could be purchasable with Karma, but I know that is a very long stretch.

Just wondering if anyone else as any ideas?

Thanks

You need about 500k Karma for your Legendary.

Have at it.

Glad I’m not the only one feeling this way.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/Ok-I-m-L80-Now-What

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Also, can people please quit talking as a group? On both sides, this is an opinion for yourself—just because you want to leave doesn’t mean the whole world is leaving. Okay, maybe some maps are low in activity, but have you waypointed across the entire gw2 world? Have you been to lion’s arch? Why is there overflow still? Have you been to different servers? Have you noticed how long it takes to queue for wvw? Lol, like seriously, if people were leaving it’d help me get my badges of honor faster. Just talk for yourself please or at least have some better facts—not possible reasons that may or may not apply.

I’m going to assume that’s not directed at me since I don’t believe I brought up anything of the like. I also assume (maybe mistakenly) that anything I post is considered to be my personal opinion (unless I’m citing facts and source).

As for “if you’re not having fun …” points; of course if I’m not having fun I’m just going to move on (do people really continue to play something that they hate?).

But the OP wasn’t made with the intention of whining about not having fun … more of an honest question of “what is there to do at this stage of the game”.

It’s been asked and answered (thank you). It was a nice game … hopefully future content will make it a nicer game.

I’d love to be able to enjoy it more.

I’d love an FFA PvP server.

Presumably ANet wants player retention (like any MMO) to sell their future expansions (and of course, their online store).

You will also occasionally get extra taps on the same node with higher level gathering tools.

You should hear the drunken kiddy toucher at the bank in Hoelbrek.

@Draylore: Well said and pretty much my point. The whole “gear is ruining PvP” debate could be taken care of simply with auto-level and stat caps (ironically, which they already do). The end of character building = the end of interest (for me).

And yes, I played Rift (and yes, I was that Kruunch ).

@Everyone else: I like GW2 very much. I want to continue playing it and I will probably follow the “skins-as-rewards” model … for a little while at least. But in today’s MMO gaming world, content plateaus = interest plateaus. And rightfully so.

GW2 is a good game and was a nice attempt at an MMO (with a BEAUTIFUL PvE game world) … just fell a little short of the mark of being a GREAT game (or a good MMO).

IMO of course. YMMV.

Kasama.8941:

PvE:
Immerse Yourself In The World, Talk To NPCs

Done (most just have canned greetings although some are fairly humorous).

Complete The Personal Story Of Each Race

I’d be more enthralled with this idea if I could do it on my main toon.

Unlock All Skills And Test/Play Different Builds

Done.

Get 100% World Completion

Near done … 86% (got some lowbie zone clearing left to do).

Find All Your Favorite Looking Gear Skins

Done … Google ftw!

Find All The Jumping Puzzles

Done.

Participate In Optional Events Like Keg Brawl and Halloween

Done.

Max All Crafting Disciplines

Why on earth would I want to? (I’ve maxxed two … I might do one more if I decide to go for my legendary weapon).

Discover Hidden Recipes

Eh … random is random (neat the first time though).

Discover Mystic Forge Recipes

See above.

Craft A Legendary Weapon

All that grinding effort for a different skin on an item with the same stats? I enjoy carrots as much as the next man, but I want my cake to taste like a cake, not a carrot.

Get Dungeon Armor

Why? Especially if I like my current looks?

Complete All Dungeon Modes, In all Dungeons

Done.

Join A Guild

Done.

Create A Guild With Only One Type Of Profession

Why? (you seem to be really stretching for things to do here)

Help Your Guild Earn Influence

Done.

Create Fun Events For Guild Members

Done. Our favorite is naked drunken PvP. Seems to be hit with our opponents too.

Make An Alt Profession

Done … sort of … losing … interest …

Get Rich, Or Dye Trying (pun intended)

Done.

PvP (et al) …

Seems like a lot of senseless crap for a basic game content element (beat the guy over the head with your stick). I like PvP because it’s PvP … the other stuff is all meaningless (and rehashed) drivel.

What You Shouldn’t Do:
Play The Game For 10 Hours Every Day (except if you work for ArenaNet :P)

All the above was done playing two hours a day, five days a week for about three weeks.

Complete Only One Type Of Content At A Time (<— this is you grinding. Now stop it)

Eh?

Rush Trough The Game (a game is meant to entertain you, not waste your time, so enjoy it! That’s an order)

I do (did) have friends playing GW2 who went hardcore through it. They were done in a week and left. But that’s part of ANet’s demographic too.

Expect A Completely Different Gaming Experience At Level 80 (if you didn’t like the game up to level 80, you most likely won’t like it after)

Loved the game up to L80. Wish it would continue. That’s kind of the point.

Only Do Content For The Rewards (again, games are meant for your entertainment. If you want to gamble, then poker is an excellent game)

Everything we do in life is for a reward of some form or another.

Expect Other Players To Need You (there is no holy trinity in this game, so no one is forced to talk to anyone that they don’t want to. It’s just like in the real world!)

Eh?

Compare Guild Wars 2 Content, With WoW Content (Guild Wars 2 is two months old, WoW is seven years old. Lets have a little perspective here)

I didn’t bring up WoW. But if you’re going to try to be an MMO, bill yourself as an MMO, you better develop the content of an MMO (endgame being one of the most important aspects of an MMO).

Try To Force Yourself To Love The Game (maybe the game just isn’t for you?)

GW2 WHY WON’T YOU LOVE ME?!

Yeah no. I’m not so self involved that I don’t realize what GW2 is.

ANet made a nice game but not sustainable. It won’t draw the same type of ire that other similar MMOs (Champions Online, SWTOR, etc …) have drawn simply because ANet (et al) can fall back on the “no-sub fee” model. It was well thought out.

I just wish their end game had been as well thought out.

Lorana.2468:

Quit and come back later.

might sound harsh but you have to remember this game has no sub-fee and was designed in such a way that you can quit and comeback whenever you want completely free of charge.

if your not having fun, then your not having fun.

Ok (hope you don’t work for ANet lol) … but why would I want to? Wait for a content patch / expansion and try that out? Is that your suggestion? Seems like a silly business model, since it took me less than a month to get to this point (i.e. out of sight, out of mind).

I do like the fact that there is no sub fee, so I don’t feel ripped off (hence why this isn’t a ragequit post). I feel like I’ve gotten my money’s worth even if I didn’t play one more minute of GW2.

However it seems like an awfully big expenditure of resources (time, money, etc …) to develop a game that’s only to be treated like any generic console game.

Also, I like the way the game plays. I like its mechanics. I like it’s dynamics. I like it’s aesthetics. I just want some more depth to its content I guess? In other words, I WANT to play more … I’m just not sure where the “more” is.

I don’t find the rerolling alternative very appealing personally.

Shukran.4851:

gw1 was a coorpg
gw2 is a mmorpg
they are 2 different games
maybe the game would be different if they called gw2 : World Of Tyria (in and around :P ).

But … they aren’t different games really.

The end game (and ultimate point) is still PvP. You just don’t have as much flexibility as in GW1 and have to invest in a larger time sink to get to it.

GW2 doesn’t have the sustainability to really be called a proper MMO.

Retaliation is a damage shield. You still take the full damage. You give (“reflect”) a portion of that damage back.

Hope that helped.

Eurosdown.6072:

I’m leveling 3 alts through different leveling paths (I didn’t want to do 100% world completion on my first character because I knew it would make playing alts feel less fun). When I get tired of one I just switch to another. It makes leveling to 80 very slow, which is good because I enjoy leveling a lot more than farming dungeons or Orr.

Ok … but don’t you think that “rerolling” is a fairly odd (and ultimately, self defeating) form of end game?

I liked the toon that I’ve built. I want to play him more. I just feel that there is no more “building” to him past changing his looks.

Which brings me to another point … why have levels in GW2 at all? It doesn’t make any sense to me, since the game goes WAY out of it’s way to ensure that content isn’t level dependent (auto leveled pvp and pve content, etc …).

Let me preface this post by saying I’ve enjoyed the game very much.

So I’ve hit L80 … I’ve gotten myself clad in all Exotics. I’ve tried events (including the dragon events), dungeons, wPvP, sPvP, tPvP … and I’m kind of at a loss as what to do now.

1) Events: while some are neat, they don’t have the staying power to keep me interested past doing them once or twice in and of themselves.

2) Dungeons: I normally look forward to dungeon crawls but I feel the risk vs. reward ratio to be totally blown in GW2. I’m supposed to grind Explorer Modes ad nauseum for tokens to trade in so I can be … prettier (armor has the same stats as crafted)? Am I missing something about dungeons?

3) PvP (all modes): While solid, there’s nothing to GW2 PvP that I haven’t encountered (again, ad nauseum) in other games. Worse, I don’t see the purpose of it past the challenge of beating the next player (again, rewards consist of like-stat gear). While that’s fine in and of itself, I don’t find that mode of play sustainable without some form of reward system (and again, with something more substantial than looks).

I guess this is an end game (or rather, lack thereof) post. But I’m truly baffled at what ANet thinks is supposed to drive this game once a player has reached L80. In GW1, it was a nice concept to mix and match powers and go right at the next player. In GW2, it seems that the MMO gear grind has been added (the “bad”) without the rewards (the “good”). Worse, it kills the original model of being able to quickly adjust your character to a new play style quickly and easily within the PvP context.

Kind of seems like GW2 doesn’t know what it wants to be.

P.S. – GW2 has an amazing PvE world (shockingly so). It seems all the pieces are there … it’s just missing the right formula at the end.

P.P.S. – Does anyone else wish there was an FFA world?

Nice vid … very impressed.

Next patch:

• In an attempt to equalize PvP, Guardians will no longer be allowed to equip weapons.

The mentality is hard to shake.

Even with my friends, I have to chide them for not having more Toughness/Vitality. Toughness/Vitality are must have stats for every class in GW2.

If you’re running Altruistic Healing and Empowering Might, you’re going to want more Crit Chance (40%+ is the general consensus).

Cempa.3645:

Thanks for your build it looks good.

What do you think of this build:

http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.3.12.5.0.18.4.4.0.4.54.74.72.69.76.8.8.37.0.0.0.167.0.0.181.0.0.198.205.204.216.218.0.0.10.10.30.20

GS / Mace+Focus

Idea is keep regen rolling and use Symbol healing as top offs. Damage is focusing on burns from virtue of Justice. Though I suspect using a rune with +Might duration might also work.

As a PvE build it looks fine. You might want to rethink Master of Consecrations (Virtue VI) since you’re only utilizing one Consecration. Vengeful might give you more bang for your buck.

In PvP I’ve found that the Mace isn’t a mobile enough weapon for me. But you have Judge’s Intervention so that might alleviate that somewhat. Symbols are virtually worthless in PvP in my experience (especially WvWvW) … too much movement. But try them out and draw your own conclusions. You can use them in your setup as a sort of “catch your breath (health)” mechanism but I think you’ll find yourself often times not wanting to hang out in them (or not being able to) for the regen. YMMV.

Yep yep that should work fine.

I don’t think your numbers stand up in practice due to Smite’s stationary (and fairly small radius) condition and AA’s lack of speed (too easy to dodge a barrage).

In PvP this is even more accentuated (except for hanging out on a wall plinking away of course).

There are several different paths to gearing up at L80:

1) Crafted – If you’ve gone the crafting route, you can make your own armor/jewelry what have you. If not, you can purchase exotic crafted items off of the BLTC.

2) Dungeon tokens – Run bunches of explorer modes and farm tokens which you can trade in for exotic armor.

3) Karma (exotic vendors) – farm Karma and trade it in for exotic armor.

4) Drops – Kill a bunch of stuff (least reliable but has the upside of aiding in #5 below)

5) Black Lion (money) – Make money and buy what you want off of the BLTC. Probably the easiest way to gear up.

6) Exploration – Grind all of the zones and hope the exotics that drop off the quest rewards are useful to you (not exactly reliable).

7) PvP – Grind PvP honor and/or badges.

Basically gearing up is very easy in GW2 and very flexible to play style preference. The only real grinds are for certain looks (why most people do dungeons) and/or legendaries.

For PvP I highly recommend both Toughness and Vitality in stats. Past those, whatever your build and play style is geared towards is fine.

Hope that helped

Cempa.3645:

Went into the mist and did some PvP, every death was due to conditions, I also had 0 points in Zeal.

Would do you recommend as a ‘theme’ to a GS build? Symbol healing, meditation, conc or shouts? Or Signets!

You probably want to try an Altruistic Healing build. Something along the lines of 0/10/30/30/0, grab Empowered Might (Honor VIII) and maximize Precision and Toughness. That build removes two conditions per 10s with Signet of Resolve and Purity (Valor V) and you can grab the extra skills to remove more if you need. Sigil of Strength on your weapon for more boon proccing/healing goodness.

I run wPvP with that build and stay upright against anything but a good focus fire (usually because I blundered ahead of my own zerg). The idea behind it is that in a group (or zerg) I’m spreading boons around to my team mates, and getting heals for all of them (including on every crit).

As an FYI Symbol healing is decent as an additive (similar to the Regen boon) but it won’t keep you upright in and of itself.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mmcV0z0MzmRNvomRNvm0axx0MoVqcRa8khT707khT707khT707kIw70m7kuH7owX70m

Hope that helped

Mace is really nice for keeping yourself upright. My only issue with it is that it’s not very good in a mobile fight (which a lot of GW2 fights tend to be).

Eileithia.5246:

Story modes are completely doable at the level they open up. We ran all story modes as we leveled with few issues. Our first few runs were painful, but as we got familiar with the mechanics, we were able to get through with little to no death our first attempt on later dungeons. They are a ton easier (too easy) at level 80, with fully spec’d traits, and rare/exotic gear.

Explorables on the other hand. While they can be done at the level intented with a group of competent players and level appropriate gear, they are obviously tuned to level 80 gear / traits. Some are much easier than others (CM vs AC for example). We ran AC Explorable at level 40 and it was painful. We cleared the first attempt (path 2) after numerous full wipes but decided it was a better use of our time getting levels and gearing up at the time. Going back at level 80, it’s still challenging, but can run pretty much anything with little to no death (except Arah).

This was exactly my experience as well. Doable … but painful and ultimately (considering the lack of rewards) more productive to go level, gear and come back.

I just consider that method of dungeon design poor (the dungeons themselves are fun though (eventually)).

Kozai.8269:

Thanks for the tip on the mini-dungeon, I’ll see if I can get us through there, it sounds great for one of our usual evenings when we only have an hour or two with all of us on together. We only get a weekend day together, long enough for something like that dungeon, a few times a year. I wonder if there are more things like that? Probably so, there are easter egg like surprise events all over in places I wouldn’t have expected, and I have a terrible memory so I’ll never find them again. :p

While I haven’t found another mini-dungeon as well thought out as that one yet (only 55% discovery on the world though) there are a ton of multi-stage events at later levels that are actually pretty neat (unlocking Lyssa for example).

Overall I’m very impressed with the PvE in this game, especially considering GW1. This is probably why I was so disappointed with the inception point of the dungeons (rather than the dungeons themselves).

Hastur Carcosa.2853:

So I just ran a dungeon a little while ago, and there was a guy in it that fancied himself a pretty big player in the dungeon world. He automatically called us noobs (Which we had already admitted that we hadn’t done a lot of dungeons) and then said we should follow what he says. He got mad at us for not doing what we were told (Some of it was useful, and we did our best to try to listen) but about a quarter way through we noticed something odd.

He was running through naked. Now, from what I understand of how it all works, taking off your armour is gonna really bring down your character’s ability. He said that he only puts his armour on for runs where the people aren’t pugs (He spoke that like an insult) and listen to his instructions. We were getting slaughtered here and there, especially on Subject Alpha. We got mad at him for not putting in his best effort, and kicked him from the group. We weren’t gonna have someone who wasn’t at full strength.

He then proceeds to go mental on us and basically start yelling that he’s gonna report us for griefing him and get us all banned. Anyway…

Do people often do this? Run a dungeon naked with noobs because you know you’ll get killed? He said this was perfectly acceptable, but it just made the dungeon that much harder (Having ran the dungeon the day before with a group of people at full strength I definitely noticed the difference, and that was with another group of newbies.)

I’d say common sense would dictate what kind of person you ran into here.

Kozai.8269:

Kruunch.3714
And I was wearing mostly greens when I first did AC (I tend to be very gear conscious). How many L30s are running around with rares and exotics at the level requirement? The fact that that’s even a point is further evidence of the design issues of the “lower level” dungeons in GW2.

When my guild of friends and I did AC a week ago, the first time any of us had been in a dungeon, our highest level was 41, everyone else was 30-35, and as far as I know only one other person besides me even had full green gear. I’m sure I was the only one who, thanks to some market work, could conceivably have afforded anything better than green. It was, not unexpectedly, four hours of grueling effort to finish the dungeon, and we came really close to stalling out at a 3-minion fight.

I don’t regret it, though, because I think it gave us an incentive to really buckle down and study how our powers worked and how to coordinate them for next time, which is likely to be before any of us reach 80. If we managed to get a combo off on that first time through the dungeon, it would have been accidental, next time we’ll actually, like, PLAN them.

I do agree in one sense with Kruunch, the dungeons are a pretty abrupt change in difficulty from the rest of the game. Had we not all been friends, I don’t know if everyone would have stuck it out for 4 hours, and we came close to having a couple swear off dungeons. It would be nice if they, or some other similar feature of the game, had an easier mode, mid way between regular zone PvE and dungeon story mode. It could have less rewards, but still something a little more then you get from things like Heart events, and would provide an incentive to improve skills for people who, unlike me, don’t get a kick out of maxing out my ability to play and build to in response to a near impossible challenge.

Try them again at L80 … they get easier.

Also there is a small public dungeon we found in the northeast corner of the Charr lands. I forgot the name off the top of my head, but it’s marked on the world map as XXX Portal. We were curious so checked it out and it was really neat. An underwater dungeon with a bunch of puzzles to progress through, a boss and a chest at the end.

I wish they had more content like this in the game (chest events tend to devolve into “kill the champ and take his loot” later on).

Dracones.9105:

Kruunch.3714:

But this further strengthens my point … how many new characters are maximizing their gear as they level (especially sub 60)?

I have no idea why more people sub 60 don’t do that. Low level masterwork gear can be had on the TP for a few copper more than the base sale price.

I tend to make it a point to swap up my gear every 5 levels. Optimal gear = faster killing = faster exp gaining. Minor runes/sigils and low level food is the same way. Cheap cheap cheap.

Sure but considering how fast you can level in GW2 (and as others have said) it’s not hard to out level your gear. By the same token, many MMO vets know to save their in-game money for different money sinks (e.g. trainer tomes) and max level upgrades (where possible).

And I was wearing mostly greens when I first did AC (I tend to be very gear conscious). How many L30s are running around with rares and exotics at the level requirement? The fact that that’s even a point is further evidence of the design issues of the “lower level” dungeons in GW2.

Hjulstad.6317:

To get healing power is arm useless imo.. Only scales Well with Dodge heal and decent with VoR activation.. But i tested healingpower with AH , and iirc around 800 healing power gave like 10 more HP / AH tick. Wich is a waste.. Same for regeneration Boon , really bad scaling.. I cant make myself equip healing power after both SPvP tests + WvW tests really wish AH could scale better tho

I’ve heard this a number of times.

Unfortunately, I can’t get precision, toughness and vitality on the same armor piece (not including runes).

Shootsfoot.9276:

Rise.9702:

Funny because the only weapon I ever use anywhere is Mace and Shield and I’m probably the only person here who uses it lol and I hate the two combinations in every other MMO but now I love it thanks to GW2 and a different game.

Nope, you’re not the only one.

Only gripe I really have is I think the skills of the shield and focus should be switched. I love the focus skills, but I hate carrying a focus as a heavy-plate wearer.

Just doesn’t seem right.

Totally agree. I think the Shield is probably my least favorite Guardian “weapon” (including the Scepter).

@Oreoz: The part you’re missing is the immense change in difficulty between being a brand new L80 with basic L80 gear and being a leveling L30 with comparable L30 gear in a dungeon designed to scale in difficulty. This thread isn’t about a melee ranger in whites vs. a support specced guardian in exotics.

i.e. – the dungeon design is broken at the earliest levels of inception (except with the possible exception of Arah and the mid 70s dungeons).

EDIT – As a challenge, I invite you to try any dungeon at L80 in full greens. The difference is staggering. Yes, being geared should make a difference. It shouldn’t totally negate the content (which is really does currently). To whit, the purpose of L80 dungeons seems to be to farm them for armor skins, since you can gain the same stats in crafted exotics much more easily and faster. In other words, all that token farming basically boils down to is wearing a prettier dress.

Fildydarie.1496:

I run sword and shield all the time—PvE, WvW, PvP. I enjoy it, and it fits my playstyle.

I don’t run focus because protection and avoidance are more improtant than blind to me—I have plenty of avoid-1-hit skills, what I need are skills to avoid many hits in rapid succession or hits from champions. Since you can’t avoid everything, the protection from the shield is nice, as is the knockback/projectile absorption.

Except for Shield #5 (and it’s ridiculously long CD) what protection does Shield offer other than some token armor?

MajorMelchett.6042:

Anyone else think most of the Guardian weapons are a bit boring?.
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Well due to the recent GS change and no longer liking how much time i spend auto attacking and how it feels with my fav builds i decided to switch weapons. Here’s the thing though, after trying them all out i just find them all rather boring.

Now during leveling i pretty much stuck with a GS/Scepter:Focus combo and didn’t really use anything else, now however i’ve tried the Hammer, Mace, Staff, Shield, Torch etc and my god, they’re all so boring to use in PvE (haven’t tried them in PvP yet).

Honestly i’m a bit surprised by this, does anyone else find the Guardian weapons all a bit boring?.
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Please don’t take this as an attack to the Guardian class (i love my Asura Guardian) or just as some troll post, i’m being totaly honest here and am wondering if others feel the same.

If you don’t weapon swap regularly, then yes I find them all rather underwhelming.

Utilizing the weapon swap as part of your rotation is the key to not staring at yourself auto-attacking.

I think most people view weapon swapping as a sort of dynamic “spec” swap which really isn’t the case in GW2. Weapon swapping is meant to be done (sometimes many times) in the same fight. It not only adds to your damage, survivability and/or support capabilities but is also a lot of fun with the amount of possibilities it opens up (I really wish we had 3 or 4 weapon swap trees).

While not the most immersive mechanic it definitely only adds to the depth of your play.

I recommend Sword and Focus as well if you like being more defensive. Ironically, I’ve found Shield to be less effective than Focus in most defensive scenarios.

Think evasion tanking (blinds) and it’s a very mobile build which I like over mace.

I go the other route … I run an Altruistic Healing build (0/10/30/30/0) with precision, power and toughness as my main stat focus. I might kill slightly slower (and I do mean only slightly), but I don’t fear jumping into a pack of vets or at a champ.

I’ve never been fond of glass cannon builds as they inevitably lead to discussions about how to make them tougher. Generally speaking, you need to sacrifice offense for defense …. how much is up to the comfort level of the player in question.

@Coshocton: I made a similar post to this and agree on your points. Why bother taking anyone lower than L80 when L80 toons/gear/traits give that much more wiggle room to skill level (especially when pugging)?

I can play my toon with my tongue and one toe as well … but why would I want to?

Eain.7825:

Kruunch.3714:

You cited WoW as the model of boss fights that aren’t health dumps?

Hmmmm.

No, if you read again you see that I cite WoW as the model of developers that at first made healthdump bossfights and then grew to understand that there were more interesting ways to design bossfights. As you can see, I made mention of Drakkisath and Garr as exceptionally boring vanilla bosses. In fact I can’t recall a single person before UBRS was capped to 10 players that willingly went in there with less than 15 because the fights were such a drag. A lot of bosses in this game feel like 10 man encounters that we’re forced to 5 man.

If you look at a lot of post-vanilla bosses you see a lot of interesting mechanics that really demand class knowledge of people in the raid. It became far more than just depleting a big healthbar like in the old days of Molten Core.

True but you’re also talking about the genesis of a game that’s been out for almost a decade. Every MMO that’s had at least one expansion changes up its boss fight mechanics, just to throw variety into the content if nothing else.

But I do get your point and I’m sure the next content patch and/or expansion that ANet puts out will vary up their boss mechanics accordingly. To that effect, I think GW2 has a larger leeway with its mechanics precisely because there is no holy-trinity. WoW (and other MMOs) ran into the problem of designing encounters that if you didn’t have the right class or XXX amount of said classes you couldn’t complete it. That (to me) is just bad design unless you telegraph that far in advance.

Since every toon in GW2 is responsible for their own mitigation, escape, utility and healing (by and large), balancing on a single character vs. a group dynamic opens up a lot more possible encounter strategies in my mind.

And in general I’ve found the encounters in GW2 much more fluid and dynamic than in other MMOs thus far (albeit there is over a decade’s worth of habitual gaming mechanics to overcome )

I’ve found WoW to have more bosses that are just pure health dumps than GW2 personally (caveat: haven’t played WoW since WotLK).

I just assume a certain level of health/mitigation from certain tiers of mobs (plain, vets, champs, etc …). Having said that, I’ve found some pretty big variations even among the same tier.

Is the contention that boss fights just take too long in GW2 in general? If that’s the case, then I think it just boils down to personal preference. I remember doing EQ raid bosses back in the days of vanilla EQ, and the big complaint there was that it took an hour or two to setup for a 30 second fight lol.

My personal preference would be to see non-loot fights (where no chest or specific drop is concerned) take less time.

@Kuroi: That was my point about the poor scaling. It assumes the same ratio of gear and stats which of course, is absurd. A fully traited L80 with L80 gear downscaled to L30 will have better stats than any L30 unless that L30 is in comparable gear for his/her level (which 99% of the time they won’t be) and that over achieving L30 would still have less stats due to Traits.

Standing around Arah last night, talking with some of the groups farming tokens, they all agreed that while yes, dungeons are doable at the appropriate levels, they are not fun for most new toons. The level appropriate toons that were actually doing these dungeons efficiently were either being led along by a core of L80s (most cases) or had been through said dungeon before (as an L80).

At any rate, it’s not hard to understand the difference a pile of stats would make to your dungeon running experience. Definitely worth checking out at L80 …. don’t feel discouraged before then.

At L80 I currently use Staff for my secondary weapon most times in wPvE for the same reasons you do (speed) as well as healing and kiting.

I also swap to Sword/Focus or Mace/Focus when I need to be more tanky (although I’ve noticed I’m doing this less and less as my gear has progressed) as well as Hammer when I want to be more DPS (GS + Hammer = tons of fun )

@Wizardauz: In my experience Retaliation only procs off the initial spell/ability landing. Further ticks of a dot do not proc retaliation.

Trungalung.7850:

Altruistic Healing
If you’re using Empowering Might to compliment it, getting pieces with Magi stats would be good (precision/vita/healing power). Or you can just get the soldier pieces and make up the crit with jewelry since heal scaling is not that great for AH.

Yes I’m running Empowering Might (hence the crit basis).

I decided to go with Knight’s Draconic armor for now and I’ll make up the vitality with some jewelry.

For a sigil, I’m using Sigil of Strength (procs Might on crit (no cool down) for the heal on AH). For runes I’m using Pirate and Travelers for the MF. Not sure what I’ll go with on my PvP set although I would think I’ll go the Power/Toughness/Vitality route (Kami’s suggestions look interesting though).

Thanks for the great input!

EDIT – I’ve discovered you can indeed overwrite the runes that come with Karma armor (if so desired).

@crater: good points about gear and traits (and a bit of what I was talking about as well). I will totally admit to having a hodge-podge of gear when I entered the first time as an L30. But this further strengthens my point … how many new characters are maximizing their gear as they level (especially sub 60)?