Guild Wars 2

What if the requirements for the Legendary PvP Backpack (Year of the Ascension) be changed to support class mastery? Or maybe remove the restriction to play 2 classes?

While it’s not really an issue in higher ranked play, there seems to be a lack of encouragement to really master a single profession and be “Legendary” with it. There are many complaints against running a Core build or complaints about how you need HoT to PvP now… This can be resolved and make potential F2P Core PvP not be left behind.

Instead add an options which encourage Elite Specialization play and Core play:

• Win games with {Profession} Elite Specialization (ex. Scrapper, Tempest, Druid, Berserker, Dragonhunter, Daredevil, etc.)
• Win games with {Profession} Core (ex. No Elite Specializations)

Pros:

• Encourages wider range of builds and strategies
• Encourages specific profession mastery
• Encourages more competitive Ranked play
• Encourages players to stick to professions they are comfortable with
• Supports less need to swap professions/classes because
• Supports Core players and Core balancing
• Supports Elite players and Elite balancing
• Builds a more understandable transition between Core PvP and HoT
• Option for those who don’t play/are comfortable playing other Professions in Ranked
• Another achievement for those PvE Achievement Hunters…?
• Using what is already available (YotA), but adding another option (now need 11 out of 12 — You can play 2 different professions, or play a single class Core & Elite)

Cons:

• More competitive builds to think about countering
• Core needs to be buffed or Elites need to be nerfed

Fixes Needed:
Those running Core will get the default profession icon. Those running Elite will get the Specialization icon (ex. Core Engi – Icon: Bomb; Elite Engi – Icon: Hammer)

Pride.1734:

Rather than “a step in the right direction” i think this is the last cookie we will get before the next expansion. Don’t expect medkit to work anytime soon.

Maybe the last major PvE change (since that was the primary focus).

Sadly, none of this really affects us PvP (especially given some of the buffs/“nerfs” to our hardest counters/match-ups there).

PierPiero.9142:

I think there will be some different build . I don’t know if meta but i see an scrapper, alchemy explosive with hammer and nades with some gyro blast , bulk/purge and sneak and sage scrapper with flamethrower , with a sigil of intelligence and balthazar runes … only for saying 2 things i am trying . I think sage amulet will be more used now becouse some changes benefits from condi damage and power togegher . another possibility will be carrion but i have to try it . Even rifle has been buffed on condi so i think this will be the way anet designed for us

I can see some value in running Scrapper now too, however, would be hard to tell if it changes the meta just on the Gyro changes alone. Hammer is a strong Power-build oriented weapon, but can it compete with Rifle since Rifle also provides Condi damage on top of Power?

It might shift the PvP/WvW meta build a bit, not sure about PvE (Raids, Fractals).

Pride.1734:

Right going of this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/5vebuq/current_major_problems_engineer_currently_has/

We got the aura.

The other 95% of issues are still there.

For what its worth condi engi will probably be the best theoretical dps now.

Yeah. It’s a step in the right direction. I like how they are addressing both Power and Condi (by buffing both sides) instead of just forcing all Engi’s down one path (though Condi wins here for the most part).

Still, long way to go…and I still fear if we follow the update trend… such Buffs lead to unreasonably heavy nerfs elsewhere to keep us down. On the bright side, they are reading input and are getting an idea where Engis want to be (which is: Accepted, Welcomed, Encouraged by others).

• Explosion: Skills that count as explosions for the traits Steel-Packed Powder, Explosive Powder, and Shrapnel are now marked with a skill fact. Scrapper gyro detonations are now considered explosions. Skills that do not hit the enemy, such as Smoke Bomb and Magnetic Bomb, are no longer considered explosions for combat clarity reasons.

Gyro addition makes running Scrapper a bit more welcomed, especially with the change to Shredder. Could potentially replace using a kit in our somewhat complex DPS rotation?

• Pinpoint Distribution: This trait no longer grants condition damage based on precision. This trait will now instead grant up to 150 condition damage to nearby allies.

Worth noting that Pinpoint Distribution incorrectly says “Increased Precision” in the tooltip for the buff it provides. A very valuable addition to have as it encourages Engi involvement in PvE areas that Engi’s have hard time fitting into. This is a step in the right direction to get us Engi mains welcome.

• Flame Jet: The duration of burning inflicted on the final hit of this skill has been increased from 2 seconds to 4 seconds.

Finally. The ideal Flamethrower skill actually burns longer than the time it takes to channel like one would expect!

• Flame Blast: Reduced the base damage of this skill by 66%. This skill now inflicts burning for 3 seconds.
• Detonate Flame Blast: Reduced the base damage of this skill by 57%. This skill now inflicts 2 stacks of burning for 3 seconds.

Like the burning addition…dislike the base damage nerf. Counter productive to the “Hybrid” approach to balancing Engi.

• Super Elixir: Fixed a bug where this skill would display the wrong healing values underwater.

Rarely underwater these days, but got to appreciate the attention.

• Shredder Gyro Self-Destruct: Increased damage to match other gyros.

Is it confirmed that “Self-Destruct” is even properly triggered when they are destroyed? After the nerf to the trait “Impact Savant” by removing Daze from “Self-Destuct” it’s hard to find reason to purposely destruct anymore.

• Shredder Gyro: Increased damage by roughly 50%.

Welcomed change. I think the AoE should have been increased too (to encourage it’s pick in PvP at least).

• Glue Bomb: Immobilize duration of this skill has been increased from 1 second to 2 seconds.

Welcomed, but like few suggestions before this…the duration of the puddle (5s) does not match the lasting condition effect (Cripple, 4s with +70% condition duration) and the number of pulses (4) does not re-trigger the glue or match the puddle’s duration.

• Big Ol’ Bomb: This skill is now affected by Short Fuse. The visual size of this bomb has been increased by 33%.
• Short Fuse: Updated the Fuse Time to correctly display the fuse time reduction of 0.5 seconds. This trait now affects Big Ol’ Bomb.

Allows the seamless incorporation of this skill in a DPS rotation.

• Glass Cannon: The threshold for damage increase has been reduced from 90% to 75%.

Welcomed. Doesn’t effect condition damage still (right?), but welcomed as an increase to the Power side.

• Shaped Charge: The damage of this skill has been increased from 7% to 10%.
• Static Discharge: The damage dealt by this trait has been increased by 20%.

DPS increase.

• Shrapnel: The chance for this trait to activate has been increased from 15% to 33%. Reduced cripple duration from 2 seconds to 1 second. Reduced bleed duration from 12 seconds to 6 seconds. Fixed issues with this trait that caused it to activate at lower-than-expected rates for some skills. Updated the description to specify that this trait only activates on hit.

Sort of a nerf since the duration has been decreased…but at the same time, it can trigger more often. Don’t think this actually went anywhere other than losing 1s of cripple.

Engineer
The goal for engineers in this update is to improve trait synergy, weapon usefulness, and kit purity of purpose. Both power and condition builds will be affected in this round of changes, with a focus on PvE group viability. Notable to this, the trait Pinpoint Distribution now grants a unique condition-damage bonus to allies around the engineer. The Flamethrower utility kit is now focused on burning and keeping that condition on your enemies.

I think a Hybrid approach to making Engi viable is a good decision it can allow 3 strong options for players: Power, Condi, or both. According to some DPS benchmarks, Power and Condi are pretty close in terms of DPS—so welcoming buffs to each side would effectively get our DPS options more noticed and welcomed by other classes in PvE.

• Blunderbuss: This skill has been unsplit from PvP and will now deal the higher (10%) damage values in all areas of the game. Increased bleeding stacks from 1 – 4 to 2 – 5, based on range. Increased bleeding duration from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.

This is a really powerful Rifle skill and the increased damage (what seems to be in both it’s power-base and condition-base) encourages more Rifle gameplay…While this shouldn’t have been the only Rifle skill to be touched, it is a step in the right direction.

• Fragmentation Shot: Bleeding duration has been increased from 3 seconds to 4 seconds.

More condi = meta Condi (Viper’s) PvE build even better. No complaints.

• Blowtorch: The number of burning applications that this skill applies has been increased from 1/2/3 to 2/3/4.

This effectively adds 3000 condition damage when running the meta Condi (Viper’s) PvE build. I like seeing things burn. Pocket Flamethrower.

• Elixir U: The recharge of this skill has been reduced from 45 seconds to 40 seconds.
• Toss Elixir U: The recharge of this skill has been reduced from 50 seconds to 40 seconds.

Still a long time to really justify its usage. With HGH (Alchemy trait line), this comes down to 32s. Probably with a build that prioritzes boon duration, this can be really useful…however…it hasn’t really changed anything as it doesn’t help your party in PvE.

bearshaman.3421:

I already made this thread.

Apologies. Could you possibly rename the thread and quote the Patch Notes like I did? Or request a merge?

I find it way more valuable to track Engi updates if they are dated to the respective update. Makes it easier for the devs and players to follow what we are thinking (Heck…we are Engineers, we have to figure out a way to make us work most efficiently)

Engineer
The goal for engineers in this update is to improve trait synergy, weapon usefulness, and kit purity of purpose. Both power and condition builds will be affected in this round of changes, with a focus on PvE group viability. Notable to this, the trait Pinpoint Distribution now grants a unique condition-damage bonus to allies around the engineer. The Flamethrower utility kit is now focused on burning and keeping that condition on your enemies.

• Blunderbuss: This skill has been unsplit from PvP and will now deal the higher (10%) damage values in all areas of the game. Increased bleeding stacks from 1 – 4 to 2 – 5, based on range. Increased bleeding duration from 4 seconds to 5 seconds.
• Fragmentation Shot: Bleeding duration has been increased from 3 seconds to 4 seconds.
• Blowtorch: The number of burning applications that this skill applies has been increased from 1/2/3 to 2/3/4.
• Elixir U: The recharge of this skill has been reduced from 45 seconds to 40 seconds.
• Toss Elixir U: The recharge of this skill has been reduced from 50 seconds to 40 seconds.
• Super Elixir: Fixed a bug where this skill would display the wrong healing values underwater.
• Shredder Gyro Self-Destruct: Increased damage to match other gyros.
• Shredder Gyro: Increased damage by roughly 50%.
• Glue Bomb: Immobilize duration of this skill has been increased from 1 second to 2 seconds.
• Big Ol’ Bomb: This skill is now affected by Short Fuse. The visual size of this bomb has been increased by 33%.
• Short Fuse: Updated the Fuse Time to correctly display the fuse time reduction of 0.5 seconds. This trait now affects Big Ol’ Bomb.
• Glass Cannon: The threshold for damage increase has been reduced from 90% to 75%.
• Shaped Charge: The damage of this skill has been increased from 7% to 10%.
• Static Discharge: The damage dealt by this trait has been increased by 20%.
• Shrapnel: The chance for this trait to activate has been increased from 15% to 33%. Reduced cripple duration from 2 seconds to 1 second. Reduced bleed duration from 12 seconds to 6 seconds. Fixed issues with this trait that caused it to activate at lower-than-expected rates for some skills. Updated the description to specify that this trait only activates on hit.
• Explosion: Skills that count as explosions for the traits Steel-Packed Powder, Explosive Powder, and Shrapnel are now marked with a skill fact. Scrapper gyro detonations are now considered explosions. Skills that do not hit the enemy, such as Smoke Bomb and Magnetic Bomb, are no longer considered explosions for combat clarity reasons.
• Pinpoint Distribution: This trait no longer grants condition damage based on precision. This trait will now instead grant up to 150 condition damage to nearby allies.
• Flame Jet: The duration of burning inflicted on the final hit of this skill has been increased from 2 seconds to 4 seconds.
• Flame Blast: Reduced the base damage of this skill by 66%. This skill now inflicts burning for 3 seconds.
• Detonate Flame Blast: Reduced the base damage of this skill by 57%. This skill now inflicts 2 stacks of burning for 3 seconds.

Confirming.

Clicking PvP League through the PvP Browser (in at least Lake Doric PvE) → Crashes Game

I tanked at least 3-4 times from a steady upward progressing position in Low-Mid Plat. Ended the Season where I started High Gold/Low Plat. Bummed? Sure. Demoralizing. Darn toot’n… I should have known when to call it quits!

Reason: I play off-hours and it was hard to stop. Matchmaking is terrible off-hours and you have a higher tendency to get players like that….but it was literally the only time I could play without having to always decay each week. That’s the problem with the current system (it doesn’t know what to do when population is low). Then your rating gets super volatile and Evan Lesh decides to finally talk about /address it (and other issues) when the season ends.

Sub-Reason: Just kept playing knowing bad games are going to happen all night.

Peak hours: My goodness, heavens bless the system. System works at peak (has a population to work with). Close games, fun games, and nice players on both sides. I get to focus on making sure I’m playing the best I can rather than focusing on my team.

Start of the Season was great (peak hours are great). I got to test myself against many top players and befriended many good players on the way. Sure not all of us stayed Top 250, but after playing so much…you get to know who should be in the Top 250 anyway. I made the mistake of playing when I knew I shouldn’t have (that’s when I got to meet the fine players you have met). It’s not their fault…it’s the system putting them there and your (and my) unfortunate timing.

Plus, I play support…so I guess it was a legendary recipe for a bad time off-hours (since profession balance wasn’t a thing this season). x)

The decay abuse rush at the end was pretty epic. Least it provided good matchmaking.
Congrats on the NA Top 250 (-ish, only a few duplicates)!

Shoutout to the current NA leaderboard though. Minimum 250 is now 1780s. Last hour hype.

You are an evil genius.

Sins.4782:

There are no random() calls in the matchmaking algorithm.

The random variable(s) is(are) the player(s), team composition, map, and time.

Shaogin.2679:

I’m really curious about all the logic flying around here. What conditions exactly must a player go through to prove that you will eventually end up in the division you belong? Apparently seeing a player start in bronze and climb to legend isn’t good enough. So what would it take to show you guys that it is possible, or are you guys dead set on denying ant evidence that doesn’t support your claims?

He already proved it to me, tbh. He proved you can climb out of low rank, you can do it with a single profession, and if you are good it’s even easier for you. That’s motivating (even as a non-Mesmer player). Folks like Marvin and Zan motivate me too (because they play Engi <3). Marvin was in the same spot I was in at a time, but seeing him now Top ~50 on his Main and alt (fluctuates) is uplifting.

Personally, I’m making every effort to get better but my problem is currently that I don’t play at the right time of day which hurts (and gets demoralizing because the system really sucks off-hours). If I have a day off (which means to me that I am able to play at the opportune time), I won’t lose as much as I do off-hours and am able to climb right back up.

I didn’t want to believe that at and for some reason didn’t learn the first two major loss-streaks. Took a couple of moments of venting my concerns to finally accept it. The system does have problems (especially as a pure Solo player), but playing at the right time: I’m sure I’ll get back to where I was in mid-Plat and see my friends again (for the third/fourth time…just have to find the time and be patient).

BlackBeard.2873:

It is good to see that carry classes can get you to your correct MMR effectively.

Now for those who play eles and engies…I wonder how well such an experiment would work. I guess the true suggestion is to get gud on warrior/thief/mesmer to truly climb (although thief suffers the problem of only needing 1 and being over-saturated in number of players).

Good solo Mesmers, Thieves, and Warriors will be able to carry and climb with easier than a solo Engi or Ele. Doesn’t mean that the Engi and Ele can’t climb out…just means they likely won’t be 80% after just solo climbing.

I want to say Helseth knows this…but at the same time I do want see his opinion on it.
Helseth did prove you can climb out of low rank (not doubting that)…but he didn’t really prove its possible with all classes with similar effectiveness (solo).

If the only option is, “Well, guess you should just play to Mesmer, Thief, or Warrior…” Is that the right message you want to deliver about GW2 PvP? That every other profession is pointless really? Guess it would help balancing.

insanemaniac.2456:

…no

Solid definition.

Phineas Poe.3018:

These were your proposed changes to Juggernaut:

Every single thing you suggested is a buff to its damage. Better cleave, faster auto-attack, shorter CDs, and better mobility. None of these are necessary. You can already 1v2 a lot of match-ups with Juggernaut when running Marauder.

It’s a transformation skill. I’m not sure what you’re really expecting, or that you should be expecting more than we’re currently getting from it. It will always only be good at a very specific place and time—and only when you’re actually running a damage amulet will it actually be threatening.

Maybe pre-Heart of Thorns we took it for reasons other than damage, but what “support” does it give compared to other options we have currently? Mortar Kit gives you a heal/water field, access to frost armor/chill, blind, and poison. Sneak Gyro gives you stability and stealth. Nothing Elixir X has compares to them.

It’s a damage elite, and it should only be used as such.

It’s also used for:
Crowd Control – Which hardly is effective post-HoT against many classes that have high stability, block, endurance regen/evade skills, etc.

• Suggested Change: Make them actually effective. You have 15s in a form and it should matter…currently it doesn’t matter because everything in Tornado is blockable.

Mobility – See that Thief or Mesmer running by going for the decap. You can close the gap faster with this (but still only hit a little past halfway even after Rocket Charge).

• Suggested Change: Increase the range a bit so you can actually contest a decap. Fighting Mesmers or Thieves solo may be tough at times, but least you bought your team time to rotate and help out. Much better than letting them decap and wasting time re-capping. It may not be the Engi’s forte to recap, but in Ranked you just might have to just to keep your team in the game.

Escape – That little HP boost you get can buy you time to escape. It’s a really mini heal. Plus, if you Dash or Dust, you can get out of a pickle.

• Suggested Change: See Mobility, instead apply “escaping bad situation” logic or getting back into fights.

Stability – Reason you can stay in a fight and ignore all the hard CC.

Damage Reduction – Engi’s are squishy and many 1v1 matchups are to be avoided. This buys you time until your team arrives. However, this doesn’t reduce conditions. You can do all the damage with your Marauder, but Necros can easily survive through all of it while killing you.

• Suggested Change: Condition Damage/Duration Reduction. You don’t have your heals, kits, or anything that keeps you alive from conditions.

Damage – This is more CLEAVE damage. Again, if you are seriously running Marauder in ranked you are handicapping your team. You are really a DPS class in PvP. You are support. Even if you aren’t running Marauder, the Physical Damage of Juggernaut is many used to cleave through (3 punch combo in 2s, that’s 7-8 punches in 15s).

• Suggested Change: For Rampage – Faster punches. Lower Cooldown (every skill has a casttime and cooldown). For Tornado – Unblockable skills (see Crowd Control).
• Faster punches I can admit isn’t necessary, but look at the other skills you have…they are currently made to support…which is why they are effective at very specific times (if you get lucky with the Elixir’s pick).

Rampage is preferred because of the supportive damage it brings, but comparably to what the most effective build—this is usually just to keep you in the fight until your long cooldowns come back. Probably the biggest reason you take Elixir X in PvP because of the AoE Moa.

Engi’s in PvP are supportive (their entire kit is designed this way). In order to support effectively, they need to have skills that can maximize that support.

Again, you do have a point if you run pure DPS (for Rampage). But I don’t think one should be ignorant to why Engi’s meta isn’t DPS. While you are thinking my suggestion is soley a buff Engi’s damage…it’s not.

Damage can stay exactly the same, fine, if that makes you happy…but support the Elixir gives isn’t at the same level as many other classes. Between the cast-times of the Elixir, the transformation RNG, the lack of ability to combo skills together, Engi’s in Tornado or Rampage can just be easily just be kited or just ignored. This is why some players just gravitate toward Stealth Gyro and Mortar in many match-ups.

You want to be consistently reliable not just “kitten , got tornado.”, “Well, I got a few punches in but they just healed right up.”, and “Cleaving the downstate to prevent their team from res’ing them. Dang, no one stomped.”

Stealth gyro is consistently reliable. You know its utility.
Mortar kit is consistently reliable. You know its utility.

Phineas Poe.3018:

LUST.7241:

Running Marauder in this meta is such a risky move…especially when the biggest benefit is an elite that is based on RNG, timing, and positioning. Couple that with the limited time you have and its cooldown?

Risky or not, I’m just making the argument that Elixir X with a damage amulet absolutely trashes people. It doesn’t need a buff.

The majority of the suggestion doesn’t even bother addressing damage. I’m talking about the consistency of the utility of the skill.

If the only option is to run a damage amulet to make it effective…for at least 15s…at a very specific place and time…every 105s (by default)…That’s a problem plus makes you a handicap to your team if you are just a one-trick-pony. Damage isn’t the the only reason or way Elixir X is used. As a utility skill, to really support your team with it (which isn’t just glass cannon damage), it falls short of what it can do for your team and really make Engis keep up with the current state of the overall meta.

These “buffs” don’t necessarily mean everything else stays the same…because everything won’t stay the same in PvP. Engi might be a stable pick now…but one change to any class can completely change everything. The whole current “bunker” meta will get nerfed.

Purity of Purpose
[?pyo?or?d? ?v ?p?rp?s ]

1. The honest and innocent ability to ignore Engineers with the goal of keeping them from ever being understood, encouraged, and welcomed by not updating them to the current state of the game and rather nerfing them to ensure all Engineer players develop arthritis

Phineas Poe.3018:

I disagree. Wearing a Marauder amulet, a Tornado proc of Elixir X can literally wipe teams with proper positioning and timing.

I don’t think it needs to be touched at all. Elite skills is the one area where engineer is absolutely stacked. While most classes are left with only one real choice, the Mortar Kit, Elixir X, and Sneak Gyro are all quite dominant at what they’re designed to do.

Running Marauder in this meta is such a risky move…especially when the biggest benefit is an elite that is based on RNG, timing, and positioning. Couple that with the limited time you have and its cooldown?

You’d feel more confident running different runes, sigils, or amulets if, at least, your elite can be more effective without needing those things (like almost every other meta elite other classes have).

The RNG option of Elixir X over Gyro or Mortar would actually be quite the handicap. Not saying all these suggestions are perfect but an RNG Elite that also depends on “timing” should at least be comparable to the non RNG elites that can completely turn a fight around (like other classes have).

Its the RNG of this skill that really makes or breaks it. And the suggestions really don’t add anything to make these options OP (just makes them more reliable). Least make the options worthy.

Sure there isn’t RNG with Tossing the Elixir, but you are only hitting a max of 3 targets and for less time than the cooldown + cast-time can justify. Signet of Humility (Mesmer) is 6s, .25s more casttime, 60s more cooldown…but has a pretty useful Passive. in case you don’t have the opportune time to cast it.

I’m not against leaving Elixir X alone, but given the meta, it’s pretty outdated.

You know the one thing that sucks about using the rifle? How it self-CC’s you.
You know another thing? It’s not that useful compared to kits and hardly supports your team in a team fight (again, compared to kits).

Jump Shot

• Instant Cast time. 1s…really?
• You are blasting the ground. Probably really hot or leaves some smoke. Add some burning when leaping and some blind when landing. You’re either coming in hot or trying to leave a trail.
• Landing should knockdown. Unblockable. I’m coming in from outerspace and you aren’t even phased by my superhero landing?

Overcharged Shot

• Unblockable. If you are going to knock me back even with stability, how are you going to let someone just stand there blocking like it was nothing?
• Also cures Burning and Torment – The blast can cure you being crippled, chilled, or being immobilized…pretty sure with that logic, I can blast my tormented flaming butt away too.

Net Shot

• Skill targeting
• Look how big this net is…plus it says "immobilize FOES (PLURAL), let us capture 5 people like fish
• Capturing them like fish you say? Let’s pull them in real close.
• Increase Immobilization based on how many foes are captured (2s for 1, 10s for 5). Think about that one fish movie where the fish give up because they are captured but then the clownfish is like blub blub blub and they escape. Think it was some indie film named Finding Nemo? Well, there is no clownfish to save these land dwellers.
• Increase the Cooldown to justify the usage.

Hip Shot

• Fire faster. You are an engineer, I’m pretty sure you can incorporate all your turret, elixir, kit using, and gyro making skills to push that trigger faster…
• 1s Bleed – Pretty sure if you take a bullet you probably will bleed a bit. Pistols do it.

Elixir X is a super useful elite that can become more of a hindrance rather than a threatening experience. This is many because how sustainable other classes are now a days and the RNG aspect of you becoming a Tornado or Juggernaut. Some match ups, Tornado is pretty useless and you just ended up wasting an Elite Skill that (by default) lasts 15s and has a 105s cooldown…and just removes a whopping 1 condition.

Plus these forms aren’t even exclusive to Engi. All of it is shared with other classes. Make them feel unique.

Both Forms – Reduce condition duration and/or condition damage (while Rampage does reduce Damage…this doesn’t reduce Condition Damage). The Elixir can be either used as an escape or to survive a bit longer…but just removing one condition over X many more and still being able to get hit by them is hardly threatening (especially if you are a tornado…you should be less susceptible to conditions if you are blowing everything out of the way (or so you’d hoped).

Tornado:

• Skills should be unblockable also
• Skills should be able to be combo’d together. You are a tornado, a cow and a boulder could come flying at you at the same time…but not this tornado, you must wait until the boulder goes first.
• Dust Charge – Should have a longer travel range, stopping either the target selected collision or hitting that range. Enables Engi’s more mobility when running builds that don’t have that much mobility.

Rampage (Juggernaut):

• Auto Attack – Faster. You only have 15s. Think “Hulk Smash”
• Number of Targets – All increased to 5 from 3.
• Shorter Cooldown
• Dash – Longer travel range. Enables Engi’s more mobility when running builds that don’t have that much mobility.

Toss Elixir X – Engi’s “moa”

• Should effect 5 targets
• 4 second morph time (still under Mesmer’s Signet of Humility)
• Doesn’t remove Conditions…It should, it’s considered an Elixir.
• Engi’s Moas should turn players into looking like the Twisted Watchwork Moa
• Reduce Cooldown to match Elixir X (Reduced to 105 from 120)

Elixir Gun is a very useful kit to use in PvP and is more focused on supporting your team than keeping you alive to support your team. Focus here is to keep you in the fight when versing some really heavy condi matchups.

All Skills except Tranquilizer Dart (auto-attack) – It’s an “Elixir Gun” but only 3 skills are tagged as Elixir (Acid Bomb, Super Elixir, Healing Mist).

• Fumigate literally says "elixir fumes*.
• Globs in Glob Shot are created how? Let’s get some serious immersion in here!

Fumigate – Should also cleanse you and people at the side and back of you at 180 range (think Flamethrower skill Smoke Vent)

Glob Shot – More Bounces

• Hardly noticeable…especially given that a lot of classes can just evade, block, or reflect it. At least let it bounce nonetheless to other enemies that aren’t blocking, evading, or reflecting. Blocking shouldn’t just make a bouncy “glob” disappear.
• Every other skill has a max of 5 targets (other than auto attack obviously), this only has 3.

Pistol can be a really handy supportive weapon in PvP, however the skills are mixed to how it can be effectively used. Let’s keep the concept of the skills the same but maximize it’s usability to support teammates.

Blowtorch – Changed to come out in all directions.

• If you are targeting someone, and they move a few degrees…it pretty much doesn’t connect, resets itself, or is wasted.
• Animation slightly changed – Engineer now spins, blowing fire.
• Makes ganging up on an Engi a risky move and allows Engis to get into the fight rather than dancing outside a node.

Static Shot – Can bounce on the same target if there are no other enemies, bounce increased to 5

• Engineers are supportive but sometimes you are either left alone or there isn’t enough enemies to bounce 4 times…which (given the low damage and low duration of condition) is wasted.
• Point is to maximize it’s usability

Poison Dart Volley – Cast time should be reduced.

• The current 1.75s is pretty crucial to surviving, landing combos, and maximizing the advantage of the poison.

Glue Shot – Condition duration should be increased to match the duration of the puddle.

• Other classes have long stuns that last longer than the conditions on this skill.
• Being in a puddle rarely is a threat.

Other noteworthy additions:

• Increase the Condition Duration and Condition Damage – Currently running a Engi condi build in PvP is a super risky choice…however, it really isn’t a threat because how easily it can be avoided, ignored, or cleansed.
• Reduce cast-times or cooldowns – Engis should be a threat, if running condi. While they are pretty easy to kill while running condi, they should at least be a threat if left alive. Think Necros, Warriors, or Thieves running Condi…they can constantly apply them and overwhelm classes with little cleanse while being still super sustainable. Engi doesn’t really have that.

I’d believe it if you said NA.
EU is far more active and less just people trying to abuse the system.

I’m honestly surprised Evan didn’t reply with his standard, “here’s the matchmaking algorithm” again. Extra surprising that he owned it.

Admitting and accepting of this fate seems to be the only way I can keep myself from quitting PvP. It’s pretty sad.

I want to be hopeful, some good players in the Top 50 have recently whispered me positive remarks and are sorry that this “loss streak” I’m currently still in “sucks big time and quite undeserving”.

I’m trying to keep my head up with other players remarks about how I play, but honestly I’m learning nothing from this loss streak. I focus on myself—what I could do better, how I can better support the team. It’s at the point that this streak just tempts me to do is question the meta build/pro tips and deviate away from them completely…but after 200+ S5 games, one shouldn’t succumb to “trolling” and I don’t want to go down that path.

For the first time in any season, I dropped under 50% Season Win Rate…my overall Ranked is sure to follow suite if I continue. That’s the problem, I want to continue because PvP is enjoyable…just not when “defeat” is all I see over 90% of the time nowadays.

I think no one actually cares about people in our situation. I go to top streamers asking everything I can, trying to figure out my wrongs, learn from them…maybe the tier I’m now in doesn’t work like that at all…everything causes me to doubt the state of the game.

I’m just going to burn myself out and quit PvP all over again…instead of being part of this unnecessary demoralization. This season is the only season I really felt this way (despite all the improvements).

I honestly miss being able to verse the top players (in outlier matches). Ever since this started happening, others have begun doing it as well. I don’t even want to play GW2 after today.

It’s not making it fun and it stops real progression because now the system is filled with this mess (on NA). Season stats should be wiped completely. Total refresh.

Early on in the Season played with an against the top NA players. Held my own me thinks, close games, learned a lot from them, super fun…but the grind is taking me away from this game. It’s demoralizing.

I dilly dallied in Plat for the longest time, then there was a point I went like 18-40 (from a total ~200 s5 games mind you, lost 60%WR). So, I took a break. Came back here and there and dilly dallied up Plat some more. It was a good time, but I never regained a near-60% WR. It was okay.

Then today, I was reminded why I should stop being optimistic about getting good games and stop trying to figuring out my strengths and weaknesses (getting better)…because no matter now much I improve, the game will keep me from really being able to show it. So many optimistic posts about PvP and I can understand why (when it is favorable), but for me… I’m not enjoying myself anymore. I’m still trying to WIN but the losses, the loss streaks like the following, is just too demoralizing for this game. I’m learning nothing from the losses to better myself. I’m not blaming my team, it’s just an impossible learning situation.

http://i.imgur.com/CyMZJRO.png

It was really fun versing top players here in NA when Season 5 started out. Ran into so many players from previous seasons. Good times were had.

I’m not enjoying the grind up, feeling good, then getting put into steaks like this. It’s quite frankly predictable and I can’t really avoid it even if I play a game a day or whatever…always results to a history like this. Makes me really doubt myself even when I put my all in every match and make sure I’m at doing my part (or if a good player compliments me).

I understand there are good things that came from this season. But there are many problems that are being ignored just because someone else didn’t have that experience or never will. No one, devs especially, want to talk about the problems.

Seems like everything is brushed off with an excuse. No easily accessible public roadmap for fixes post season. Just some players saying “stay optimistic”, “git gud”, “here’s the flawless algorithm” or other things that are not really what I’m trying to say is the “problem”.

This is the only game I have felt this way. I have no issue in other games…maybe because I’m blinded by being high rank in others that I don’t accurately see the faults in them. I don’t know. It may just be the GW2 NA scene.

Wish some famous top players could actually weigh in on stuff like this. Garbage like me have no voice. Evan Lesh will never understand.

Evan will never agree that there are multiple problems with the system unless a top popular player says it first. Getting him to “test” something…look at the effort it took after how many weeks of Season 5? Season’s pretty much over.

System abuse will remain. Top players will remain where they are, rest will have to grind for it.

If you aren’t playing Mesmer or Thief this season, good luck. Have fun.
Evan feel free to poke around the hilarious fluctuation on my account. I’m garbage!

The mobility these classes have sway ranked games so easily. They are pretty sustainable alone. Given SOLO QUEUE you can’t always guarantee both sides has something to keep up.

De-capping is super quick (which might be another problem). If you re-cap, you are wasting crucial time (takes way longer to re-cap), if you don’t re-cap you leave the thief/mesmer to cap it.

I don’t think their kit is in the wrong, I just the gameplay makes it too easy for them to excel. Sure they do have counters, but I’d be surprised to see a halfway decent Mesmer/Thief with <60% WR (1650+).

Evan Lesh.3295:

Someone needs to make a Glicko test program that uses rules from the wiki and post it online…

Wiki hasn’t been really updated in the last year+….so…

Evan Lesh.3295:

Soft reset: (Previous Rating + 1200) * 0.5
However, everyone’s deviation got reset, so your still move up and down a lot from this new rating.

Thanks for proving that the grind continues this season as well. Splendid.

Want to also prove that 10 placement games are excessive and the initial 3-4 are the only ones that have the biggest impact?

How about the Stronghold win abuse last seasons?

Exciton.8942:

Ziooo.8932:

Tbh, they will have to play at least a game every 3 days (so decay doesn’t hit them) to maintain themselves in the leaderboards. In the end, most of them will have played over 100 matches.

Season lasts like 2 month.
So at minimum, some one can play like only 30 games to remain on the leader board.

Exactly. Given how high some people placed (despite what they should have been placed at)…It’s very possible to keep a 250 spot with limited games. Not to mention if someone does placements the very last day and places high…

There should be at least 100 games played to be in the Top 250 to encourage constant play. Having the leaderboard filled with people who just did placements (lucky placers considered) doesn’t accurately represent “Top”

Faux Play.6104:

You will have some outlier matches every so often. Either you would play teams that you could easily smoke or you would play vs. better teams. Your performance in those matches will affect your MMR the most.

Not sure how true this is… I do believe this SHOULD be the case but from recent experience…

Versed someone roughly +200 rating above. Won = +19. Lost = -19.
Versed someone even rating. Won = +19. Loss = -19

Seems to be no difference no matter how many times you verse the outlier. The leaderboard is there, it’s easy to find people you verse (if not just asking them).

You can see what they got Top Stats in, but sadly not specific numbers.

http://i.imgur.com/BVpWr5o.png

Evan Lesh.3295:

JMcore.4652:

Bug or just bad matchmaking?

Neither. This is how MMR works. The more accurate it gets, the less it moves.

Are you implying that since X got their placements done early…they placed high because the system didn’t have a playerbase to work off of yet? But now that there are players, those who placed high will just stay where they are because the “quota” is filled for initial “high MMR”?

Or is there a better explanation to how Pro A (playing early) goes 9-1 and gets 1.8k rating after placements while Pro B (playing later) goes 9-1 and gets 1.2k rating after placements?

And how come EVERYONE so far has at least 1 loss. Has anyone gone 10-0 so far?

…hate the grind through divisions. Again. We talked about this.

So…several players (in a PvP guild) have proven:

• Initial ~3 games decide placements.

Group A: 2 Legends (assume exactly even, over 60% WR).
Group B: 2 Legends (assume exactly even, over 60% WR).

Group A starts 0-3, ends 7-3.
Group B starts 7-0, ends 7-3.

Group A: ~1500+
Group B: ~1750+

Then:

• No extra skill points for win streaks. You end up getting lower rating as the streak continues…
• Top Stats apparently don’t matter.
• Versing the same people already (no matter how many times you beat them).
• “Soft Reset” doesn’t seem true. Any sort of reset doesn’t seem true. Being Legendary prior seasons don’t really matter. Nothing seemed carried over outside achievements (hue)
• Individual skill doesn’t matter.
• If a ~1.6k team matches against a ~2k team…The Skill Rating gain/loss is the same as matching against a 1.6k.
• In placements – If a Legend DuoQs with a lower rank (previous season), lower “assumed” MMR takes priority in how you place?

LUST.7241:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Everyone got a rating reset, at least wait until you place.

“Soft reset”

Care to explain this:

How to test:
Group A: 2 Legends (assume exactly even).
Group B: 2 Legends (assume exactly even).

Group A starts 0-3, ends 7-3.
Group B starts 7-0, ends 7-3.

Group A: ~1500+
Group B: ~1750+

This is not the only game that does this. 10 placements are excessive.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Initial-3-Games-decide-where-you-place/first#post6430079

Also, what are the gains when on a win streak? Nevermind, seems to be none. The grind continues Season 5.

• No extra skill points for win streaks.
• Initial 3 games decide placements.
• Top Stats apparently don’t matter.
• Versing the same people already (faster queues but still…out of everyone close currently in the Top 250…I’m versing/playing against the same few people).
• “Soft Reset” doesn’t seem true.
• Any sort of reset doesn’t seem true.
• Being Legendary prior seasons don’t matter.
• 9-1 on one account, without PvP history lands you higher than going 9-1 on an account with history.
• If you farmed Stronghold last year for Rank, you probably will place high.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Everyone got a rating reset, at least wait until you place.

“Soft reset”

Care to explain this:

How to test:
Group A: 2 Legends (assume exactly even).
Group B: 2 Legends (assume exactly even).

Group A starts 0-3, ends 7-3.
Group B starts 7-0, ends 7-3.

Group A: ~1500+
Group B: ~1750+

This is not the only game that does this. 10 placements are excessive.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Initial-3-Games-decide-where-you-place/first#post6430079

Also, what are the gains when on a win streak? Nevermind, seems to be none. The grind continues Season 5.

The grind returns.

How to test:
Group A: 2 Legends (assume exactly even).
Group B: 2 Legends (assume exactly even).

Group A starts 0-3, ends 7-3.
Group B starts 7-0, ends 7-3.

Group A: ~1500+
Group B: ~1750+

This is not the only game that does this. 10 placements are excessive.

Yeah…would be nice if the rarity of your weapon changed the look of the kit…also bring back hobosacks.

Digging the detailed responses, thank you again.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Close team score is not a factor, but close rating is. If two teams all have the exact same rating, winning or losing will barely effect your rating because everyone’s skill level is probably the exact same. I would really like to factor in team scores, but it’s very tricky because conquest scoring is not very indicative of skill. A totally outclassed team can often get 200 points just because of how 3 point conquest works.

Could there be some way we can change the way conquest scoring works? Take PvE (yeah…) “capture” events for example, if enemy mobs are on on the capture…the capture doesn’t tick. If they out number the player forces, it does. Could something like that open the doors to better conquest scoring and factoring in team scores?

Evan Lesh.3295:

There is no good way of tracking individual player skill in gw2 conquest to help get more accurate ratings. There are way too many variables. This has been a case of not making kittenumptions that actually end up making ratings LESS accurate.

Well, this brings me back on how heavily modified CSGO has become. There are a lot of variables (different than this game of course) that, over the course of their competitive reworks, have more accurately placed people closely into their true rankings.

I agree, there are a lot of variables…but I trust that some variables are more important than others. These should be prioritized. Are there not statistics on your end that can show this?

Evan Lesh.3295:

Matchmaking has always been based on skill (your Glicko rating), not your win/loss record. Glicko rating updates obviously requires the outcome of the match (W/L) to adjust your rating. I think my answer above addresses this as well. There seems to be some confusion between two concepts: Using rating to pick 10 players for a match and using the outcome of a match to update an individual player’s rating.

So we have the use of rating to get a match, then the use of the outcome to update individual rating. You mentioned you’ll barely move in a close match. So, ideally, it should be giving you close matches VERY frequently (almost always) this season (unlike previous seasons), correct?

In that case, is the luck of the draw heavily based on how you placed in the placement matches? How much weight does the initial outcome (W/L) hold? And, since these season apparently changes the system dramatically, why isn’t everyone fully reset to 0 (instead of a soft reset)?

What would happen in this event: A pro player goes 0-10 placements (assume the reason is because of the team). The system will try to match them closely (assume this always happens), like you said, with their given MMR. Doesn’t this just equal the same thing as the last system? A grind to the top?

Evan Lesh.3295:

We tried multiple flavors of matchmaking specifically to address the conflict of goals between balanced matches and the pip-based league. None of them worked, which is why we’ve scrapped it. Also, none of the changes we tried with matchmaking expanded the pool, it just changed how teams were formed.

Since Unranked (apparently) didn’t follow how Ranked worked. Was there any testing done in Unranked? Or was each Ranked season tests like everyone assumes thus far?

If we’re being fully honest here…there are a lot of things which can swing matches way harder than having just two stacked skilled players. The following will overcome them:

• Certain Class-Stacking (which apparently isn’t a PvP development priority)
• A bad thief on their team (which isn’t them)
• A bad mesmer on their team (which isn’t them)
• A bad {any other role} on their team (which isn’t them).
• Bad rotations by rest of their team.
• A camping bunker on their team.
• The other team having 5 skilled players.

Now, I’m not saying that having a duo doesn’t swing games… They do have a slight edge; however, even before this season: being duo rarely overcame the other, more frequent, possibilities above.

On the other hand, it also comes down to class balancing. There are deadly duo combinations…but we haven’t even tried the upcoming balancing changes yet.

Evan Lesh.3295:

…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Season-5-MEASURING-SKILL-MATCHMAKING/first#post6422623
…

Thank you for your detailed response.

I’m aware of the Glicko system, but given its previous season usage: You might understand why I’m hesitant to trust its dependability. I’m aware that several other games use it as well, and in those games (take CS:GO) there are modifications to it that make it valuable. Obviously me being Global Elite on CS doesn’t mean the same in GW2.

In the wiki, the modifications are somewhat presented but have they even been adjusted? Has the justification been explained? In a game like GW2, there is way more factors in play than GW2 that determines skill.

If you have played PvP enough you can easily catch onto how the system is working. Players can very accurately determine whether or not their next game is a W and the chance of winning. Now admittedly this was with the Pip system (and Stronghold abuse), but even after hitting Legendary, the “matchmaking” never actually seemed to be any different as players were playing just as good/bad as people who just learned what a keyboard is.

It got to a point where, in non-premade matches, you got to know EVERYONE in your division. I assume, since this isn’t a 1v1 matchmaking system, it’s based on the “team’s average MMR”. Say you know you are evenly matched (again we got to know literally everyone in our division), but the system has us a point off of each other. A close game is had (499-498, clock ran out). The underdog (W) gets a boatload of rating and the L gets slammed? Are close match ups a factor? Is individual player skill a factor?

I know there is A LOT of math behind the system, but like CS:GO this is modified. In CS, I can play great, lose, and still go up because of my performance. I can go on a win streak against better players, play poorly, and drop/go nowhere. The system knows me, the team, and my history.

GW2 hasn’t felt like that in the past seasons. Here all it seems like is: Your individual contribution doesn’t matter. You could have won the game 1v5, and you’ll still get the same gain as you would if you were 5 and the same predictable match up next game.

50/50 matchmaking is a bad thing because of the weight it has on the system. It needs to be adjusted because it’s so painfully obvious that this is the biggest factor in matchmaking right now. Instead of matchmaking based on SKILL, it’s matchmaking on what the outcome alone (was it a W or an L). Its way harder to carry solo/duo in this game than other MULTIPLAYER games that use Glicko. Plus, other games that effectively use Glicko put less priority in W or L.

I accept an evenly matched loss. It’s a super rare treat to have CLOSE games in GW2 Ranked PvP (which is why people talk about those times so highly). The current set up ensure that doesn’t happen frequently. Most competitive players like a CLOSE game (W or L) as EASY games aren’t a challenge and don’t make you a better player.

Now, with the removal of pips and opening up the pool of players to choose from? That, on paper, sounds fantastic…but every season something like that has been said and it fell real short because it was pretty much vaguely presented like it was ‘No Man’s Sky’ or something. I think it’s better not to be so vague and have each Season just be a “test” (not a stab at GW2 PvP only…because, for example, there is a company that named itself after as “a severe snowstorm” and haven’t learned from their competitive changes in their other games).

Exciton.8942:

I think it is clear enough.

Matchmaking makes you play with and against players of the most similar MMR. If you win, you gain MMR. If you lose, you lose MMR.

Your league placement and ranking is completely dependent on your MMR.

This is basically how things work in pretty much any competitive PvP game out there.

True, but any fleshed out competitive PvP game has more of a foundation to calculate how much is lost and gained it’s not only about W/L.

GW2 PvP is just a lucky grind, that’s what every season was before it and they haven’t mentioned if they are changing that. In some instances, players have noticed, you could just lose in unranked and go to ranked and win because the system apparently combined all games played.

Plus, no comment on how the “soft reset” works given previous seasons with, on the outside at least, different systems.

And regards to class stacking…

1) There will be the expected periodic balance updates, but I cannot speak to the extend of them.
2) Class stacking has not been a priority because of the leagues rework, and negative feedback regarding character locking when queuing. This might be something worth polling.

Looks like another season of carrying double threat cheese.

Why is the PvP team purposely being secretive about their broken PvP matchmaking and enjoy dodging questions about it?