Guild Wars 2

aelflune.8590:

Lily.1935:

This skill was one of my favorite skills. its a real shame that it was nurfed like this. I don’t know about everyone else. But it was the perfect stunbreak for me to bring. I can’t replace it with anything because I dedicated much of my build to elixir gun, flamethrower and elixirs. So having this nurf throws a pretty hard wrench into my engineer’s build of which I might have to abandon the build all together because of this one change.

Healing mist now breaks stun, which is not reflected in patch notes.

Oh. thank you for pointing that out. Looks like I’ll keep this skill regardless. Still my later points still stand.

This skill was one of my favorite skills. its a real shame that it was nurfed like this. I don’t know about everyone else. But it was the perfect stunbreak for me to bring. I can’t replace it with anything because I dedicated much of my build to elixir gun, flamethrower and elixirs. So having this nurf throws a pretty hard wrench into my engineer’s build of which I might have to abandon the build all together because of this one change.

So I state this again. Why couldn’t they remove it as a stunbreak from PvP and/or WvW and keep it the same for PvE? this doesn’t make sense to me. Arena Net stated that they would split skills if it became a problem. And it is a problem. You can make both the PvE and PvP players happy with skill changes. You don’t have to make one of them suffer. You, arena net, taught us that in GW1.

You took 2 steps forward in allot of areas in this game. Yet you seem to be taking multiple steps backwards with some of the “new” ways you do things from GW1. How can you make the same mistakes you did in gw1 again and expect that the result will be different this time around? This is insanity, you have to understand where your fan bass is coming from and have some wisdom when it comes to balancing.

If the skill was such a problem in PvP or WvW they should have split the balance for it for PvP, PvE and WvW. You know better arena net. Did you forget the lessons you learned from GW1?

Maybe necromancer will be worth while to play after arena net releases an expansion. Or after they listen to the GW1 players for once. They seem to be leaning that way anyway, but not enough. The new condition Torment is defiantly reminiscent of the old ways.

I’m not happy about it. Even ignoring the Dhuumfire(Which I’m still against) this didn’t fix any of our problems in PvE.

LastDay.3524:

I haven’t suggested anything.
I told you what Arenanet said in the past.
To show that your statement is just plain wrong; it is against Arenanet’s vision.

Unless they later changed that vision, which they might have.

the suggestion isn’t wrong, there is nothing wrong with wanting to play a classic concept. There vision was to give players access to all play styles. And this play style isn’t in the game.

LastDay.3524:

Necromancers are absolutely meant to have a tank build or two.
This is why the Necromancer has so much Life Stealing and a second Health bar.
Whereas a Guardian uses tons of Boons a Necro tank is meant to drain life from all around him to stay alive.
Essentially being less of an armored knight and more of a bloodthirsty vampire.

In fact good Necromancers using Life Stealing and Life Force generation smartly were nearly impossible to kill before launch.
I’ve heard of the really good ones holding 4 opponents at once on them infinitely.

Additionally Anet told us multiple times that Necromancers are THE hardest Profession to kill by design.
This was back when we knew of only a handful of skills per Profession.

Before launch Necros got nerfed to the point that their defenses are now worse than their offensive skills and they pretty much lost their whole identity of being about attrition in the process.
They did obviously need a nerf, but Arenanet whack-a-moled it to the ground.

This philosophy shows in Wells, which are great for area control, Marks which were/are meant to be pre-casted to have an advantage when defending an area and Flesh Wurm which is essentially a defense tower.

Necromancers were meant to excel in control and be extremely hard to kill, but all they really feel good for now is putting out damage and messing up Boons.

The amount of Chill and Cripple is very nice, and that’s one bit of Necro that has remained of Necro’s control aspect.
Fear to an extent is an another, although it’s now used more for damage and interrupt than actually for moving people…

suggest it somewhere else. This suggestion isn’t about improving an old option we already have, its about adding an option we should have that was dropped from GW1 onto GW2. You should be discussing the possibilities of this suggestion and not talking about something unrelated. You want to talk to me personally about my thoughts and feelings about tanking and the necromancer profession, I will be happy to discuss it in private. This thread isn’t the place for that.

psygate.5632:

No. And neither do you. Noone does, because the subset of people posting here does not in any way represent the necromancer player base. I atleast stuck with stating that noone I KNEW cared about this stuff, but going here and making the bold statement that you actually know each and every necromancer or atleast a scentifically sound subset is just, well, I don’t think so.

the hypocrisy of this is astounding. And you didn’t let me sight that for you.

psygate.5632:

I’m gonna say it. No one I know cares about where the necromancer comes from. No one.

And fine. Let me be fair about it. Every single person I talked to who mains a necromancer. The people who migrated from GW1 to GW2 all care about this. Either they stopped playing GW2, moved onto another profession, or tried to like the profession for something else. All of them do care through. The people I’ve noticed don’t care, never played GW1 in the first place. And even a few of them have stated that they would love to see some of those features return when I’ve talked to them about the necromancer.

Is that better? I hope so.

As for them being more tanky. It appears that we both have different meanings for the word. I’ve had an argument with someone about the meaning over a word, so I’m not going to make that mistake here and try and argue with you over something that doesn’t really matter.

What tanky means to me is a single character designed with extremely low damage who is made to hold a large amount of argo for a long enough duration of time so that the bulk of your party can blast down your foes. It has nothing to do with PvP or 1v1.

I apologizes for misunderstanding your definition. It wont happen again.

As for everything else. I stand by what I said and believe it hole heartly. Do I want more classic style for the necromancer? yes. Do I want more party support in the forms I have suggested? Absolutely. Do others want it to? Absolutely. If you don’t like the suggestion, fine. You don’t have to. Adding these suggestion to the game doesn’t harm your style of play in the slightest. No one said you would have to play like we do.

Guild wars 1 did have mounts in the game. A grand, amazing, spectacular total of.. Drum roll please.. 2.

Despite the fact that I strongly prefer the waypoint system over mounts I am actually in favor of mounts for some special areas. Such as dungeons, story missions, or on maps that provide one for you. However, these mounts have to be usable in combat or to pass a barrier that can’t normally be past. They cannot just be something that gets you from point a to point b. If they are going to be in the game, they should add something to the experience, not a travel mechanic.

I personally am in favor of making all life steal skills scale off of healing power. But thats just me. And I know I’ll get a few people who disagree, however, It won’t break the game unless the life stealing has a radical scaling difference. Having it scale with health tastes bad to me.

Biondo.2570:

I don’t think thieves necros and mesmers need a new condition, since they have a lot of them.
What about add a condition that only the warrior can do ?

necromancer actually do need it pretty bad. As for mesmers and thieves? I could live with out on my mesmer with a condition spec. Not sure about thieves. Warrior isn’t a primary condition profession, so they wouldn’t really have use for something like that. Plus, they can stack bleeds far faster then a necromancer and can cause burning on top of that. So if you do want to run that set, they have the tools for it.

psygate.5632:

I’m gonna say it. No one I know cares about where the necromancer comes from. No one.

You completely missed what I was suggesting. And second note, lots of people care. You have no idea how large the group of necromancer players coming over from GW1 is and how many of them seriously feel an emptiness in the way the necromancer plays. You many not care, that doesn’t mean NO one does. At least 40% of the necromancer players Do actually care.

What you missed was that I was talking about a play style that people enjoy. Arena Net stated that they wanted to make sure that people could play they way they wanted and so they could fit any archetype that those people enjoyed. Well, this aggressive style of support is something that they missed in the game. I could do a bit of aggressive support on my guardian or I could roll a warrior and give might. However, this isn’t the same as what I’m suggesting. This aggressive style of support I’m talking about isn’t in the game. The necromancer doesn’t reward people for staying on there target.

I’m talking about a play style I enjoyed along with many other players as well. And the necromancer shouldn’t be more tanky…. Thats just gross….

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

I agree too. I miss too much that aspect of the old days Necromancer. I thought they can do orders really easy in this game: give us some more spells for party buffs (ie. might party wide) and with a trait on blood magic like this (when you apply might to you or your allies, their attacks steal life).

This way we would be again a nice party supporters without implementing new Boons for example.

I kinda like the idea of having a skill that sacrifices health in someway to give the party 10 stacks of might. I kinda miss saccing health for power. Also, I’ve mentioned before. You know about the fire, chaos, lightning, magnetic and frost armors? Well what if the necromancer could have there own aura they could give to allies called Vampiric armor? It would add a bonus damage to there attack that steal health.

It isn’t a secret that the necromancer was intended to be the magic user who studied the school of Aggression. many of there skills where directly associated with this concept. The Monk, Necromancer, Mesmer and Elementalist in the first game followed these schools very closely and they each felt very different because of it. The satisfaction that one would get from a Ele wouldn’t be the same as what someone might feel from the others.

From a gameplay standpoint, they don’t feel nearly as aggressive as they used to be, leaning more towards preservation then anything, especially with there death shroud mechanic. However, seeing as how they are still a mage of aggression they don’t seem to do this very well. (Hopefully this will be fixed in the upcoming patch)

Looking back at how the GW1 necromancer played, its very clear that the necromancer should do more of what they did in the past.

Skills like these that really made them stand out as creatures of absolute spite:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Barbs
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mark_of_Pain
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Order_of_Pain
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Vampire
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shadow_Strike
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Blood_Bond
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Deathly_Chill

I would really like to see these ideas played on. Give the Necromancer a Vampiric aura they can grant to allies. Give them a condition that functions how Barbs did in GW1. Gives us party buffs at the expense of ourselves. Makes us care about foes with full health more then low health, adding a new twist on a spike build idea for necromancer. Make there healing for allies function based on there attacks.

The necromancer should reward there allies for being as blood thirsty as they are. This is honestly the biggest thing that I miss from GW1. You boasted about how your professions where designed to fit everyone’s desired play style. Well. You missed mine. You missed the play style that I enjoyed from GW1 and learned to enjoy in all other games because of it.

So please return the style of play that I loved.

Andele.1306:

Its not necro vs ele/schools depend on what you do.

Preservation: Fast Casting, Inspiration, Soul Reaping, Energy Storage
Aggression: Blood, Air, Earth
Denial: Illusion, Curses, Water
Destruction: Domination, Death, Fire

You have that a bit wrong. This doesn’t account for the monk in GW1 or the Guardian in GW2 who are both rather exclusively Preservation. Breaking these down into categories like that fails to understand exactly what these schools mean.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Magic

Bhawb.7408:

Do people care enough about underwater to care?

I do. I’ve been suggesting changes to that for months now.

I doubt they did. The “leak” that people are spreading around contradicts an interview with the devs. So Don’t worry too much about it just yet.

this is either outdated or fake. Considering that the devs talked about majorly overhauling the blood trait in an interview and that this doesn’t seem to show any significant changes to blood and the fact that they talked about not just tacking on a new skill to death shroud but completely reworking it, I’m afraid I can’t believe this is real.

Arvid.3829:

Jotun, Mursaat, Forgotten, Dwarves and Seers all predate ‘magic was gifted to the sentient races of Tyria’. They all wield(ed) pretty powerful magic and hardly seemed to have an issue doing so.

Not anymore they don’t. You can actually talk to a Jotun in Holbrek who talks about there decline and how they began to lose there magic.

Arvid.3829:

figure that shows some ties to Necromancers has used fire related attacks in the past. This could very well have inspired an actual Necromancer to develop something similar

Dhuum was also trying to prevent resurrection of the dead. The representation of fire in his attacks actually alludes to this idea. Considering that fire is often seen as the bane of undead, this is an example of mechanics simulating the flavor of the lore.

Either way, I’m concede this argument on the basis that we don’t know what happened to the blood stones. I wont like the change, and I’ll keep pushing for disease to takes its place as a damage condition, however for now I’m not going to worry about it.

Do not confuse challenge with difficulty. I should be rewarded for doing things on multiple levels. Don’t make it cheep.

PvE does have a lot of things in it that can kill you on one hit. Many of them don’t have a well projected sign that tells you when they are going to do it. Many fights are just punishing if you don’t have the right professions in your group. They don’t let you learn from your mistakes they just face roll you until you decide to switch to a profession that works in that fight. Then the fight becomes extremely easy. Or its just the opposite and fights take no skill what so ever and you could be full glass cannon and stand in the same spot and destroy an enemy without even trying.

I know Arena Net knows how to make challenging content because the molten facility was some of the most challenging content in the game. Note thakittens challenging, not punishingly hard. This dungeon makes you use a skill in a way that you previously ignored during combat. It taught you how to fight the boss before you even got to it and scaled the enemies and rooms brilliantly to prepare you for the fight. We need more content like this.

The Next month you brought the dungeon on south sun. Which wasn’t even a real dungeon just 2 bosses. One you fight on your own. And another that is punishingly difficult unless you know exactly how to abuse its AI. Then it because unsatisfying and easy.

Arena needs to make content that better tests the players memory and skill while in PvE in order to make the experience more rewarding. Team co-operation should be especially important and should be focused on. I know Arena Net is capable of doing this because they showed all of us that they could do it. So now I expect each and every person to hold them up to this, and demand that they produce the best possible content.

That said, Players should be rewarded for playing a condition spec as much as they are playing a zerker spec. Players should be rewarded for using control or support more then just throwing up a reflection wall. It would also be nice to see enemies actually act with at least some level of intelligence. You don’t need to make them hit harder, have more health and more aoe circles to make them harder. You can give them more calculated behaviors rather then memorizing their often far too simple patterns. Enemies actually using blocking or dodging wisely would be a massive plus while fighting them and would make it so zerker warriors would have to rely more on someone who can control or support them to actually get the effectiveness they desire rather then just them face rolling everything in there path.

For a better explanation then I can provide. http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/when-difficult-is-fun

Arvid.3829:

To be quite frank, you’re acting like your some kind of GW1 lore guru, but your interpretation of it annoys me a lot more than the fact that we get burning. (This is speaking as someone that followed GW1 lore pretty closely as well.)

But aside from that:
1) If the name is indeed something like Dhuumfire, I don’t see how this doesn’t fit in with the lore, seeing as some of Dhuum’s attacks were actually fire based : http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Judgment_of_Dhuum
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Impending_Dhuum

2) N/E, enough said.

Dhuum came from a time before the magic was gifted to the sentient races of Tyria. His magic is far older and far more chaotic then what we see in the game. Being a god he doesn’t have the same limitations as we do. He isn’t restricted by the bloodstones. So your argument is invalid.

Second point. Cross profession in GW2 is represented by combo skills. that the professions can preform.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Lily.1935:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weaken_Knees

much less impressive sounding xD

It was good for a while. But then they nerfed the damage and no one used it after that.

It was a necromancer skill back in GW1. I would argue that a guardian can’t get it because of flavor reasons, but arena net throw that out the window. So. Why not? Give it to the guardian..

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weaken_Knees

I figured I would suggest it again over here in suggestions. Disease in GW1 is one of my favorite conditions. It really changed the way people played if they knew it was going to be in an area they where going. It also changed when people didn’t know either. Considering that GW2 has far more mass condition removal then GW1, the condition could be far stronger then it was in GW1 without causing a problem with balance.

The Flavor of the condition was something that I personally enjoyed. It would spread to all creatures of the same type regardless of ally or foe. If they got too close you would get disease. it could spread over again if people weren’t too smart about it. Its damage back in the day matched that of Poison. However, if I think it would need to be much stronger to really make people worry about it. Considering that poison’s damage is noticeably but not the part of it that makes it threatening.

Some changes form GW1 that GW2 disease would have to go through. The first one and most relevant change would be that disease wouldn’t spread to your allies and wouldn’t care about creature type. Its damage would have to be significant. Something noticeable that makes people want to stay away from there allies to wait it out as to not spread it. Using CC in order to push or pull foes, you could spread the disease by shoving your foes into each other, helping to keep the damage. My personal suggest for how high the damage should be it would look something like this. 4+level (0.25*condition damage)

Professions I think should have it would be the Necromancer and the Ranger. The necromancer would have the easiest access to it, being a living plague as they are. The Ranger would have little access to it through pets. Such as a rat who are known for spreading diseases.

Arena Net doesn’t want what dominated the GW1 PvE experience to return in GW2. I don’t know this for certain, however there are several signs pointing to this. In GW1 mobs acted much like players would to an extent. Outside of bunching up, they would try to make calculated decisions with their skills and use there energy and cool downs relatively wisely. Granted, they are AI so they will mess up on this allot. Enemies in GW2 don’t act like players do. They don’t try and get a flank on you, dodge your attacks(exuding a very small number of them) share nearly all player skills, and really test your ability to play the game.

The GW2 mobs are mindless and will run to their death while you trash them with huge numbered attacks. These mobs are designed to be killed with heavy damage because that is what most players seem to like to do. Having enemies that dodge or try and change there position makes the player base think too much, making boon removal matter makes players have to adapt and Arena Net has a rather Non-challenge policy with there PvE.

Some might argue that GW1 wasn’t challenging. Yet I would argue that it was. And that challenge isn’t the same thing as difficult. But it was rewarding because of it. I felt accomplished when I completed the bonus objectives for a mission. I didn’t get anything out of it besides helping a title and a gold marker on my map with 3 weapons crossed off over it. And did we complain? NO! We loved it.

GW2 just gives you things and doesn’t really make you actually push yourself to get them. The Legendary weapons don’t test your skill, they just test your patients. You don’t get the piece that you need from completing every dungeon for every path. You get it for grinding the same dungeon over and over again. This isn’t skill. And things that really reward you in GW2 don’t take any skill either. I go to Teq and spam number 1 over and over again. Yay! Gold!……. But it doesn’t mean anything. It feels more like a chore then an accomplishment.

There was one thing that was very rewarding in GW2. And that was the flames and frost dungeon. after playing that, I thought “What will arena net do next.” that dungeon was a good example of challenge and reward. Sure you probably didn’t get anything out of it most the time, but the dungeon was so fun you went back into it anyway.

GW2 is a skinner’s box that tries to satisfy with shinnies. It is a trap. And adding challenging AI while promoting a more skill based PvE experience goes against this idea. Why would casual gamer’s with a low attention span play GW2 if they actually have to think when fighting?

Gnat.9405:

As far as being flavorable I think it would be neat if it played off of poison. Building stacks and intensity until poison evolves into disease.

poison and disease are not the same thing. It would be bizarre more then it would be flavorful. But the argument “@#$& YOU, Magic!” is always a option.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disease

Sieg.8439:

Lily.1935:

3. The blood stones act to limit the magical abilities so that no one being could have full control over all 4 of the magic schools. Both Liches from GW1 couldn’t use burning.

This seems like the main possible lore issue, but in my opinion, I don’t see throwing a couple seconds of burning here in there is a massive dip into a different school of magic.

I’m currently at work so I can’t hop onto the wiki due to a site blocker (why it blocks the wiki and not this… I don’t even). But the trait is called Dhuumfire, isn’t it? Didn’t Dhuum dwell in the Underworld when he was still kicking, and wasn’t the Underworld a bit fiery? It could be channeling flames from the Underworld, I suppose.

You could also look at the burning not as the victim being literally caught on fire, but the feeling of burning inside of them due to the corruption.

Just my two cents.

To answer your question, Yes, Dhuum was the god of death. However he was a god before the time the bloodstones where created seeing as Grenth was already with the other 4 gods when Abaddon fell. So any magic that Dhuum used was far older and far more chaotic then the magic that humans have access to. However, I did make a story suggestion to deal with the blood stones to help explain this. Because the bloodstones are extremely important to the story and shouldn’t be ignored by arena net. Much like they are being now.

Alright arena net. its about time that you revisit something. Especially with the coming update, I feel that it is high time that the bloodstones play a part in the story to explain this blasphemous act you are about to do.

I’m going to suggest a 3 month long story arch with a climactic ending with a PERMANENT dungeon. The premise the idea is that one of the blood stones is leaking its magic. The magic thakittens leaking is effecting the dragons and races of tyria alike. Many skills that where once unusable to many magic users are now becoming easier to do. But the magic is causing a frenzy from the dragon’s minions and a unknown corrupt group who wants to hoard the magic for themselves. Little do they know, the blood stone needs to remain intact, or all of tyria could suffer the consequences.

Some mysteries of the arch. What damaged the bloodstone? Who is this group trying to capitalize on it? What elder dragon has prominence in that area? What other mysteries might be answer through this? Will we finally get closure to a question we asked 250 years ago?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Lily.1935:

Knox.8462:

Here’s a suggestion: don’t take the burning trait. Now take a deep breath and carry on.

My Mesmer sets people on fire all the time and I still manage not to lose it.

Fire is a common theme of a telepath’s abilities to make there foe believe they are on fire. Although its rather hard to simulate making your foe believe they are burning. Fire when it pertains to a necromancer on the other hand who deal greatly with the undead is closer to there bane then something they would use.

If I’m an all powerful master of undeath and general magic practitioner, I’d be kitten ed if I couldn’t figure out how to light someone on fire. It’s kind of mandatory for all sorcerers. Explain to me why Liches in almost all mythological forms can launch fireballs at people. Dragon Priests from Skyrim were technically Liches/Necromancers and their fireballs bloody hurt.

So get over it, if you don’t like the trait, don’t take it. (And again, the leak is probably false anyway)

I’m surprised you are mad about Necromancers being able to go all pyro on people instead of the fact that we can’t even perform Necromantics to resurrect corpses to do our bidding. We’re NOT Necromancers in this game. Don’t expect us to start acting like them now.

1. Liches have no mythology, they where a species created by fantasy writers. Although they did have bases in real mythology, the lich has none.

2. Just because you can use all magic types in one game doesn’t make it so that it applies to this game.

3. The blood stones act to limit the magical abilities so that no one being could have full control over all 4 of the magic schools. Both Liches from GW1 couldn’t use burning.

4. Who said I wasn’t upset about not being able to raise minions from corpses?

5. The Necromancer is a water aliened profession.

Knox.8462:

Here’s a suggestion: don’t take the burning trait. Now take a deep breath and carry on.

My Mesmer sets people on fire all the time and I still manage not to lose it.

Fire is a common theme of a telepath’s abilities to make there foe believe they are on fire. Although its rather hard to simulate making your foe believe they are burning. Fire when it pertains to a necromancer on the other hand who deal greatly with the undead is closer to there bane then something they would use.

Blaine Tog.8304:

New Grandmaster trait – Dhuumfire: Inflict burning to opponents for 4 seconds on critical hit. This effect can only occur once every 10 seconds.

I wonder if anyone else besides me realizes that Dhuum’s magic is far older then the bloodstones and that it would be impossible for any of the 5 races to gain access to his magic without being completely corrupted by his presence.

Welcome to GW2, where the devs do whatever they want and the lore doesn’t matter.

So the warlock is getting an update. Oh Joy… Arena Net, when are you going to bring back the necromancer from GW1? what expansion can I expect that?

Bhawb.7408:

I don’t know anything about Magic, nor do I care about it, so sorry but those examples fall flat on me; I have no idea what you are talking about.

Burning is only supposed to help condition damage builds. And no it doesn’t have to be burst. 1s of burning every 10 seconds isn’t bursty at all, it spreads out the pain over time (and is much less bursty than Terror is), just like 3 stacks of long duration bleeds would; except that burning will actually damage the target because it won’t be removed in 2 seconds and fall flat on its face accomplishing its task of damage. It gets in, does its 1 tick for a good bit of damage, and ends. There are plenty of ways they can introduce burning without it being bursty at all, and until they release numbers, we don’t know anything.

Much of Guild Wars design philosophy mimics rather closely to Magic the gathering. There are thousands of parallels between the first game and MTG that it just looking at either once and you can see it. Even the skill type Flash enchantment from GW1 was inspired by the key word mechanic flash in magic the gathering.

Both games also had a philosophy that using balancing without breaking flavor was very important to the games. Arena Net back in GW1 wouldn’t dare give the necromancer burning or a monk poison just because a build might benefit from it. Arena Net wasn’t one to shy away from completely changing the function of skills, however they would have never broken flavor back in the day.

This new arena net is disappointing, and doesn’t hold true to what they created. And the lore and flavor are very much a part of gameplay. They are a core feature of gameplay. if they weren’t there wouldn’t be a single game that would care about story, professions or the world at all. Many games developers share your philosophy of gameplay over flavor and lore rather then a marriage between them. These games don’t last long. They die rather quickly.

You can’t just make a necromancer. You have to understand why people liked the necromancer. What made them so endearing that keep players with such a strong desire to continue playing them. Arena Net doesn’t seem to understand why players like the necromancer in the first place. If you asked them they would probably says “Dark fleshy minions and the whole death thing..” With no real understanding of what people actually liked.

The necromancer was one of the most popular profession in GW1. It wasn’t the easiest profession to use, or the most powerful. Yet so many loved playing them. now look at the necromancer in GW2. They are one of the least popular. Now compare that to the warlock in WoW. I have a good number of friends who played wow. Not a single one liked the warlock. it was basically a shrug, and what ever. So why would arena net emulate something that was so unpopular in comparison to something that was extremely popular and successful?

But then again, perhaps I’m mistaken on the popularity of the Warlock. Its clear though, that there was no way the percent of players who enjoyed the warlock could never have been nearly as high as the necromancer for GW1.

Bhawb.7408:

I might not agree with excluding burning because I believe it helps gameplay, and for me gameplay > lore (although I can totally see why people would disagree), I love reading these threads because the lore for this game is interesting (shame they did such a terrible job presenting it).

Giving them burning doesn’t help gameplay. It helps A single build that just so happens to be popular. It doesn’t improve the game play unless you are a spike player, and if you are, you don’t play a necromancer because they aren’t top tier. Which means you only care about winning.

It is a lazy way to try and fix a problem that could be fixed with out the lore breaking addition of burning. Imagine of magic the gathering suddenly decided that the color red wasn’t strong enough so they gave them enchantment removal. That is so taboo to the flavor of red, that they would never consider it. They have done far more creative ways to help improve the competitive play of red with out resorting to break there own game’s rules.

manveruppd.7601:

I’m not super crazy about Necro having burning (I don’t think it’ll solve the class’s problems), but I don’t see a massive lore problem with it. Flames of hell, or whatever? Anyway, my first GW1 character was a N/E so since we’re not getting secondary classes back I think it’s a good compromise! ;p Oh, and one of my favourite GvG builds revolved around Rangers with Greater Conflagration, Eles with Mark of Rodgort, and necros with lots of minions – all the physical damage from the minions was turned to fire damage, which when it hit anyone hexed with Rogort’s turned to team-wide burning!

Flames of hell is only a modern idea of death. Fire in mythology is the element of life, destruction and purity. This was also translated rather well into the first game, but Arena net have seem to forgot that. Water on the other hand is the element of death. Fire is the polar opposite of what the necromancer stands for.

LastDay.3524:

From my point of view there’d be nothing wrong with a Guardian using Bleed.
They are hitting things with sharp bits of metal, I don’t think they have an oath to not make things Bleed.
Plus you can do it with a Sigil anyway, if you really want to.

I don’t see why a Thief couldn’t shout, unless he’s mute or gagged.
Rangers have shouts, too, it’s not some “GRR big bad warrior-leader!” thing.
He’s just barking commands at his pet.
Thieves have Thieves Guild, so they are leaders of sort as well.
Some sort of “Ambush him!” shout could work.

Engineer not having Signets is odd.
Signets are just magic rings afaik. Sigils and Runes have magic too.
Eh, go figure. Warriors have plenty of them despite being about physical force.

As for GW2’s Necro I keep drawing some sort of connection between the Necromancer and the Underworld.
The color choices… and Death Shroud seeming to partially shift you into an another dimension where you hear all sorts of odd sounds.

GW1 Necros couldn’t use Death Shroud, which implies that GW2’s Necros differ in some way in their powers.

GW2’s Necro indeed may not be very far from a Warlock, communing with some sort of beings in the Underworld.

I find it very doubtful that every Necro follows Grenth.
Most Asura for example know of the Gods but don’t believe in them as something to worship.
Charr don’t exactly like the gods very much for obvious reasons.

Even human Necros have the option to pick any God in the character creation even if they are a Necromancer.

Thus if the new trait is linked to the underworld or some force yet unseen it could explain what’s going on.

I’ll agree with you if the skill is called “Cremation” or something else without an explanation, though.

All magic in the world of tyria is effected by the blood stone. It puts certin limitations on magic that can’t be bypassed with out seriously weakening the usability of the second type of magic the user wishes to use. In the case of the necromancer, using burning is a power granted to the school of destruction and preservation. The necromancer belongs to neither of those and wouldn’t favor seriously weakening their death magic.

Arena Net take a rather traditional look at the elements. And every profession in GW1 that could use more then one of the 4 schools of magic was extremely weak in the use of it. For example, the dervish could use multiple schools of magic, however they where far weaker with magic then that of an elementalist. They made up for it by using cheep and simple spells in order to augment there abilities.

As for the elements. The concept of fire, even in GW1, is a element of destruction, war as well as life and purity. A necromancer would have an extremely hard time using such an ability considering that they are about corruption and death. While water on the other hand is a element of mystery, darkness, death and cold. The necromancer favors ice and water over fire. Fire can’t spread disease, can’t cause infection, it actually stops bleeding. Water on the other hand, can spread disease and carry infectious bacteria. Winter, the season of water, is even the season of death.

In conclusion, it doesn’t actually mater any if the other races worship Grenth or not, they still have to abide by the same limitations the blood stone has put in place. Only the Ritualist knew how to surpass the blood stones and they did it with a level of understanding of the mists the the necromancer honestly doesn’t have.

This isn’t the necromancer. This is the Warlock. Don’t call it the necromancer, because it isn’t the necromancer.

http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/professions/necromancer/ this is the necromancer. May you rest in peace.

Sepreh.5924:

Softspoken.2410:

Lily, I’ve already read the blog post. It’s kind of short on exact details. I mean, technically Necromancers ‘have access to’ confusion and vigor already. I get that you’re pretty mad, I’m just saying you shouldn’t do anything drastic before they throw back the curtain completely.

And burning, on corrupt boon, when it works…

The philosophy behind that is the necromancer is revealing a dark truth about something, converting it into something that was always a part of it and not actually just throwing fire.

Softspoken.2410:

Will you at least wait until a few days after the patch hits, to see the exact details of the necromancer’s cremation abilities?

Edit: Okay so work with me here but
A thief shout
with 200 range
that can only be used from stealth
that causes fear
called “BOO!”

With a similar shout called “Surprise!” that causes confusion.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/upcoming-skill-and-trait-changes/

And the warrior should use staves and drink blood. The elementalist should get into bar fist combat. why not? It would add more options and fix a problem they might have had.

Brighteluden.2974:

I’d take in favor of fixing a class and adding more diversity then sticking to 100% of the lore, just sayin.

It doesn’t do thakittens just a very lazy way to fix a problem that would be fixed if they put a bit more thought and effort into it. Honestly, I seen no reason now why they are holding back in invulnerability and stability for the necormancer now.

OH hey! Why don’t we just give the Guardian bleeding, poison and torment? Why should the necromancer be the only one who is giving things that breaks lore? The Guardian doesn’t have a good condition spec. They need it. While we are at it, the thief should have shouts. And the Engineer should use signets.

vizups.3824:

They will break everything the next patch not only the necro.

They will kitten it up hard.

It isn’t even the necromancer anymore. They might as well change the name to warlock. Because it sure as hell has nothing in common with the necromancer. I would play GW1, but arena net seems to have abandoned any new updates for that in favor of temporary content and stomping all over the flavor and lore of their franchise.

Thats it! I’m done. The necromancer is dead to me. Arena Net honestly can’t be trusted to keep true to the lore of there own game. Necromancers now have the element of destruction, life and purity. There isn’t going to be a Cantha expansion, there isn’t going to be a ritualist, they are never going to answer the questions left behind in GW1. The spider god is going to be written out of the story, the asura did come to the surface before Eye of the north, Magic is crumbling, what ever it meant to be a necromancer is now meaning less.

Thanks Arena Net. You broke my trust in you… I trusted that you would keep true to the flavor and lore of the game, but you can’t even do that.

Honestly, I’m pretty kitten ed.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

• Some traits and skills are nearly useless. Does anyone bring spectral armor at all?

If it had a 60 second cool down I would consider it. No guarantee.

Gnat.9405:

I don’t know, it was a lot of fun back in the old days. If they implement this I hope it is super flavorful and Necromancer exclusive.

As far as what professions would use it? I can’t see anyone else besides ranger really using disease. And I would imagine it would be on a rat pet or something and they wouldn’t have very much access to it.

ReMortis.4287:

Disease and Necrosis still imply a biological component to those afflicted, not always the case with the enemy types we face. Decay is universal. That was my point.

And as great as the self-spreading mechanic seems in concept, I really doubt ANet would work it into any condition of ours. That’s what we have epidemic for.

I understand where you are coming from. Its a preference thing. I would rather have the enemies more complex with real depth to there skills and attacks. But this isn’t guild wars one. Earth elementals can bleed, golems can be poisoned, fireballs hit fire elementals pretty hard.

The problem with that idea of “That is what epidemic is for.” is this locks a player who might want to use a condition build but doesn’t want to bring epidemic into using epidemic regardless. I would much rather see a diversity of ways they can spread conditions rather then relying on one skill as good as it may be.

I personally believe that arena net have considered disease already, and if it isn’t going to be in this upcoming patch it will be some where later down the line.

ReMortis.4287:

On topic: I agree with all that, Necro should get something exclusive similar to how Warriors get Impale. Stacks duration with itself or any other necros that use such skill. Or would intensity be better? But on a longer cooldown to skills that give access to it? So that the if your opponent does not remove it by the time you’re able to cast the 2nd stack they’ll start taking even more damage. Whatever works best for balance.

I’m going to reply to this second part because I forget to before. Having a condition like disease stack in intensity would be broken beyond believe. Imaging that disease did half the damage of bleeding. Imagine that it stacked up to 25 times. Okay, so it does half what bleeding does, doesn’t sound too bad. Well Now look at how the condition works. Each new stack of disease would spread individually form each other. So lets say you put 3 stacks of disease on one foe in a group of nine. Okay, so now all 9 foes have 3 stacks of disease because of 1 target. Well now use epidemic. You spread 3 new stacks of disease between each of the other 8. You just caped the disease on everything without even trying, not to mention any bleeding or poison you might have had.

I’m not sure this is exactly what you where talking about, but this is why I don’t believe it would be a good idea to have disease stack in intensity. Duration, sure.

Budg.3064:

So it would be a condition that spread itself to other enemies if they got too close to each other? Sounds great in theory, but I can see this getting nerfed like confusion and retaliation were after a while.

A fancy dot is still a dot. It doesn’t matter how many bells or whistles is put on it, it is still just a dot. Retaliation and confusion are far more complex, and lead to stats of inaction. Which from what I hear, inaction is a bad thing from a game play perspective.

ReMortis.4287:

I always thought that if Necro got such a unique condition like that it should be called “Decay” instead of “Disease” or other such names. As everything can decay, but not be diseased. Then again there’s bleeding for golems/rocks/ghosts and stuff. So it’s mostly a flavor preference for me.

On topic: I agree with all that, Necro should get something exclusive similar to how Warriors get Impale. Stacks duration with itself or any other necros that use such skill. Or would intensity be better? But on a longer cooldown to skills that give access to it? So that the if your opponent does not remove it by the time you’re able to cast the 2nd stack they’ll start taking even more damage. Whatever works best for balance.

decay isn’t contagious. And even if it was it would be a flesh eating disease. So disease still works. In GW1 disease simulated the spread of influenza. And it was very flavorful in that regard.

And if a condition simulated decay, Necrosis would be a far cooler name then just decay. And People would actually take the time to look up what necrosis is so they would learn something new.

Unpredictability.4086:

Lily.1935:

Disease back in GW1 was the most hated and feared degen condition in the game."

I think somebody is being more than a little dramatic.

Note that I said most hated and feared degen condition. not condition all together. And it was the most hated condition, easily. The most feared condition was Daze. But its hard to compete with a condition that can completely destroy an entire group with one target.

And honestly, there where only 4 degen conditions so.. Didn’t have much to compete with.