Guild Wars 2

Wetpaw.3487:

thehipone.6812:

My Nec is an Asura, but there is a long, proud tradition of Norn Necromancers
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avarr_the_Fallen

What weapon is that in his left hand (focus maybe), anyone know? Never played GW1, I imagine that’s a scepter in his right hand.

its a focus. Back in GW1, the weapons didn’t make a difference in terms of skills. Though they did matter. They where usually stat sticks.

This was happening to me a few hours ago. Now when I load up the game and try to load a character, the screen just freezes. I tried loading up the other games on my computer to see if there was a problem with them as well. but all of them load just fine. its only GW2 that seems to be having the problem.

ColinJohanson.2394:

It’s something we’re absolutely aware of and want to address in the future, one of my main characters is an engineer so I feel ya on this one. My poor quaggan backpack is visible like 2% of the time I play as I kit swap, never mind my weapon skins.

We’re currently focusing our engineering (programmers, not guys with net guns) resources that could work on solutions to issues like kits/skins on major systems that address issues higher priority and wider reaching like lag in large battles, LFG, custom arenas, spectator mode and so on but this issue is absolutely on our radar.

As always, please post your ideas of what you’d like to see solution wise, we love to see the fun ideas y’all come up with too!

I personally would like to see a legendary back item that replaced the skins of all kit items that use a gun type weapon as well as the back piece. Or back items that just replaces the back piece anyway. Although I personally feel that a legendary should replace the skins of the back piece as well as the weapon. While normal back items could just replace the kit. I don’t know if this has been suggested before, but I will suggest it again if it hasn’t.

You sacrifice too much in order to do that and do too little for your party.

Alys Florent.1359:

Esplen.3940:

Conditions are already weaker than pure damage.

Conditions are harder to get to deal more damage (they scale really badly).
Conditions have a cap that is not unique to each player, meaning that if you have 2+ condition players in a party, you’re going to waste conditions (either one persons poison/burning will be ticking or 25 bleeds will go off and you’re just overwriting bleeds).
Conditions have a cap on how long they can be (100% condition duration).
Conditions deal their damage slowly and have tons of removal methods.

The only way you’re going to win as a condition damage build is by constantly applying conditions to other players and hoping they run out of removal. They, on the other hand, only have to worry about hitting you, because their damage will do the rest.

Also, if you get, say, a Zerker Warrior in your group that wields a Sword, you’re in for a treat because he’s just going to slide on into your bleed stacks and say “HI, I LIKE TO BLEED THEM, TOO!”

Those objections are perfectly valid for PvE but don’t really apply to sPvP, where conditions are generally as powerful as direct damage. That’s why engineers and necros do so well with condition pressure/burst. The beauty of conditions is, once you get them on your enemy, you don’t have to worry about connecting additional hits – the damage, and its accompanying debuff, will continue without you having to do anything further. That’s why curing conditions is much more common than the direct damage counterpart (blocking attacks).

That said, I do think a 33% reduced condi damage boon is too much. Maybe 20%, but I don’t really think it’s needed. If conditions become too strong, they can introduce more ways of decreasing duration or curing them.

I liked the idea of “Freedom” as a potential new boon, which was mentioned here a while ago. Its effect would simply be, “Immunity from movement restrictions,” though chill would still apply its cooldown increase and immobilize would still prevent dodging.

Arena net is afraid of conditions. I mean, REALLY afraid of conditions. In GW1 Hexes dominated much of the game, making direct damage rather laughable. My suggestion also calls for giving them room to improve conditions without the fear of it being too overpowering.

I personally want conditions to expand. I want some conditions to have increased duration and I want more conditions added to the game. I feel that this can’t happen without a proper safety valve.

There where so many enchantments in GW1 that did such a large pool of different things. I personally think that arena net did a fairly good job of translating the feel of many of these enchantments over to GW2. Although there is one thing that I think they over looked that could be a powerful ability.

In GW1 there where several skills that had damage reduction that had nothing to do with armor. Skills like Shielding hands, Union, Stoneflesh Aura and “There’s Nothing to Fear!” would reduce damage from all sources including hexes that would normally ignore armor. We got half of this in GW2 with protection. However we are missing the other half.

My suggestion is a boon that reduces the damage of conditions by 33%. This would give the heavy condition professions a clear counter without having to nerf there power into the ground. Anet seems to be worried about the burst damage of some condition based professions quickly putting people out of commission.

I personally would like to see this effect added to the game. But at the same time, I don’t know much about PvP and would like to hear other people’s opinions on the concept. Do you guys think this is a good idea or bad? Why or why not?

Allie Murdock.8152:

Thanks Folly!

ilr.9675, I definitely understand your point of view, but understand that observing the CoC/ToS is very important on these forums. I would post on there more, but I think my PvP title makes people think I only ever care or think about PvP (which is definitely not true). I don’t think it’s possible to estimate how many skills we would have to split, but I can say that if we feel it is absolutely necessary for the health of the game, we will split a skill/trait.

It is absolutely necessary for the health of the game. I’m a huge fan of Guild Wars. I love the game with all my heart. It is number 1 on my top 10 games of all time. I will defend the game to my grave. I will not, however, Defend Guild Wars 2 in the same way. The reason being is you are making the same mistakes you did in Guild Wars 1 expecting that the outcome will be different just because the skill system is different.

However what you need to understand is that the similarities that the 2 games hold are glaringly obvious to a PvE player who has played both games. The Damage scaling and health scaling for example might function on 2 completely different systems, but the end result of what you are trying to do is the same. So the same problems arise from this as it did in the first game.

There needs to be a split between PvE and PvP. personally, I believe that there should be a split between PvP, PvE and WvW, but that is getting ahead of myself. Going back to what I said earlier, I’m being warn down by the balance problems that are cropping up in PvE because of the balance being made for PvP players. Where some professions might be fine in PvP, they are suffering greatly in PvE because of the balance required for PvP.

A Huge example of this is the change you guys made to death shroud. By making the damage bleed over, combine with the fact that the necro doesn’t have ways to block, teleport, stealth, or go invulnerable in a pinch it leaves them at the mercy of many of the enemy attacks to take them in full. Before the update I was doing fine. Not great, just fine. After the update I am now struggling more then ever in situations where my glass cannon Mesmer wouldn’t have a problem surviving. I understand that this change might be good for PvP, however a change like this to already undesirable profession harms the over all usability in that format and further continues stagnation of combat in the meta.

This also posses a problem considering that Your PvP and PvE have 2 sets of rules for combat and engagement. Where as In PvP you might be able to bring a large number of CC to try and limit your foes options in the engagement, in PvE the enemies don’t use the same skillls that you do and have a completely different way of attacking then a player would. Thus balancing the system on one of them will always cause problems with the other.

GW1 had the advantage in balance on this part as the enemy forces all used most of the same skills that you as a player had access to and followed the same rules of engagement. However, even GW1 proved that the split between the skills was absolutely necessary even with a much closer resemblance between the 2 formats.

So in conclusion, assuming that it isn’t needed, or very little of it is needed is a disservice to your PvE community.

Enundr.9305:

rager.4963:

Enundr.9305:

rager , minion master was one of the core builds ppl LOVED in GW1 , thats what some of us want to see again , but right now thats clearly never going to be the case as all we see is conditions being the only remotely useful (and relatively subpar vs raw dmg) build we have , weve been pidgeon holed into specific builds because of this , which was against the initial beliefs were being said for the game…..how any build could be just as good as another……lol at that XD and yea things need to get fixed or this is done , where the only ppl left is that tPvP that keeps “balancing” the rest of the game / players out. there are other good mmos around the corner , its best to prioritize which group is more favorable to appeal Anet , the minority tPvP or the majority PvE / WvWvW group , make your choice and sleep with it , cause the games future will rely on it……and the tPvP group isnt exactly expanding in size

I played a little bit of guild wars 1. My friend was a healer and I would summon a bunch of minions yelling at him to keep them up..He said it was the worse time he ever had trying to keep them alive the longest he could lmao. I enjoyed watching him do it.

actually there were some good builds where the necro could keep them up him/herslef , though a healer also comes in handy , in prophecies (before faction and the first major necro nerf) you could summon enough minions to solo missions if you did it right , that was prob the most justified nerf they ever recieved , though ill still miss being able to raise an army and destroy my enemies XD

The minion master never lost its value in GW1. It was always useful. And the monk isn’t supposed to heal your minions. That is your job. You are supposed to keep them alive. And in return the monk keeps you alive.

GW2 minions and most other necro builds are complete garbage. And another problem this update made was now Death Magic is even worse to take then before. So we now have 2 trait lines that are extremely bad and low and behold, both of them are our defensive traits. Not saying that death magic was good before the nerf, because it wasn’t.

JonathanSharp.7094:

I say play it a while and then see how you feel.

We did a big set of improvements to Necro recently, and we want to make sure we don’t over improve their defense capabilities.

We want to shift more focus to death shroud throug main hand skills, but, again, we don’t want to do this too fast, ESPECIALLY with a major Pax tournament right around the corner.

So death shroud gains may not be as high as you would like, but we’ll keep monitoring them and looking at further improvements to make.

I’m going to say something that you might not like. GW2 will never be as good of a E-sport as GW1 was with your current attitude. You guys have taken a lot of steps forward to promote this, but the things that GW1 did right in this area helped make it the extremely competitive game that it was. Splitting the PvP and PvE skills was necessary for this. And you NEED to do this for GW2. YOU CAN’T LIE TO YOURSELF ANY LONGER!

In GW1 you guys took a lot of risks. You made decisions that you knew could be dangerous to the game balance. This is something you have to do. Because right now, the way you are acting to this profession out of fear of how it was in your Alpha testing is preventing you from seeing the over arching problem.

The 2 things that prevented the necromancer from ever dying in the Alpha was not being able to be stomped because they entered death shroud instead of being downed and because death shroud had a ground targeted teleport to disengage with people. We don’t have either of those anymore as much as I dislike not being able to use death shroud near death. Your concern is misplaced and endangering your necromancer community.

HiSaZuL.2843:

No stability unless you go and dump 30 points into something that doesn’t provide migation in real combat.

There I fixed it for you.

Right. I was on a bit of a rant. So I forgot about that. Well of power gives you a second of stability as well.. But that isn’t a reliable source of it.

As the title says. The necromancer has only one real way to defend itself. Life steal isn’t a reliable means of Survivability without the aid of high levels of tanking gear. And even then you need death shroud to last a bit longer with that where as a guardian as pretty does it just as well if not better with 1/4th the health of the necromancer.(this is including death shroud as part of the health pool.)

For people who don’t seem to have a clue about the necromancer’s defenses. They are garbage. Unless you are doing large world events where tones of creatures are dying all at once, you are not going to be able to maintain death shroud unless you dedicate to it. And even then your emergency button has to be planned for and built up to use it. Where as a guardian or a mesmer can pop a block or invulnerability to shrug off large chunks of damage YOU CAN NOT! You don’t have stealth, invulnerability, very little stability, no blocks, no vigor without jumping through hoops like a trained poodle and no teleports that can get you out in a pinch.

A while back the necromancer got a small… VERY small buff. So small of a buff that it only really helped the necromancer’s offensive power and made an already popular necromancer build even more popular. And now arena net have nerfed the necromancer’s already pitiful defenses even further.

You have been changing death shroud since day one, making it less and less like a true “Death shroud” and more and more like a power shield. This isn’t good design, and it sure as hell isn’t good game balance. I wasn’t happy with the last buff because it wasn’t nearly enough. And we needed at a minimum of 2 more buffs of the same size as that one to both our defensive and supportive tactics. And now you make us weaker in the area we are lacking the most? Fixing a bug doesn’t make up for a clear nerf.

You could rarely rely on death shroud to actually save you and now it just isn’t going to save you. The Aegis The guardian on your team is going to help you more then death shroud will. Even more so now that damage bleeds through death shroud. And we still can’t be healed through death shroud!

Arena Net. You frustrate your necromancer community to no end. You ignore us most the time and when you do listen, you listen to the people calling for nerfs when the necromancer doesn’t need them. A player getting beat once by a necromancer doesn’t mean that he necromancer was broken.

Roe.3679:

Azraeel.1238:

Roe.3679:

Kajin.5301:

Saturn.6591:

TheStarflyer.9641:

Saturn.6591:

Necros can’t suicide-jump off cliffs anymore. That’s about the only real DS-nerf here.

On the other hand, they fixed a bug that apparently was letting Necros take more damage from direct attacks while in DS. So I’d say the survivability is now INCREASED. Not even talking about the faster generation of life force through spectral skills and axe 2.

Spoken like someone who has never played a necro… go back to ele or guard, leave the skilled players alone…

Actually, Necro is one of the classes I play quite frequently. I didn’t touch my lvl 30 Ele or my lvl uhm… 14 (I think) Guardian for at least two months.

Edit: Talking about skilled; it appears to me that you’re not one of the “skilled players” if you don’t see the facts. Even if you should have to face-tank a big attack of a boss for some weird reason, it will actually do less damage as before, because they fixed the bug that did make you take more direct damage while you are in DS.

Going into DS before a big incomming hit (backstab/mighty blow/evisc/boss’ OHKO) would make you effectively ‘dodge’ it, even if you had only 5% pool. Now you will eat all the dmg as it overflows out of DS. That’s why he called on you being not-skilled. This is not only a jump-off-cliffs nerf, it’s a definately survivability nerf since we didn’t get any evade/invul/escape tool replacement. Check wiki for Evade/Invul/Block/, guess who’s missing at the party.

You need at least 10% life force to get into DS.

I find it heavily unlikely that everyone complaining about this actually used a sliver of life force to soak up a big hit. The way people are crying it sounds like some people could absorb every backstab and always generate 10% life force on a whim to block everything.

Most if the time it’s probably soaking 1k damage, and hardly ever these huge hits.

That’s because you are thinking in PvP style, think using PvE, and you will see a HUGE difference.

You’re right, i was thinking about PVP.

Personally I would consider using this in PVE to be an exploit.

So soaking up one large hit from an attack and loosing death shroud is an exploit. But being invulnerable to all attacks for something like 11 seconds on a mesmer is completely AOK…. Sure. Makes perfect sense. The necromancer’s one and ONLY means of defense is clearly an exploit, but a mesmer or guardian being able to shrug off multiple 30k+ damage attacks without so much as batting an eye is good game balance.

Yes necromancers are unfair. We are one of the weakest professions, if not the weakest, in the game. Totally unfair. We need major buffs. And Arena net started to do it but now they are taking it away.

But really. Necromancer’s have garbage defenses and building life shroud is our first and last means of defense. Without that we can’t survive worth jack. And anyone who knows what they are doing will easily destroy a Minion master without so much as batting an eye. Minion masters are complete garbage and need a major buff before anyone will seriously look at death magic ever again.

Um. no. Nightfall was my favorite Story arch of the first game. And it was EPIC beyond anything GW2 has done! Not only that, the music for that whole expansion was just unbelievable. And to fight against the Margonites again? YES! Maybe they will even use the weapons of the past such as scythes and throwing spears.
And lets not forget the slashed Black lion prices.

#Vote Evon Gnashblade

I’m going to have to side with Arena Net on this one. Sigil of Paralyzation probably shouldn’t extend the fear time. Seeing as that fear is effected by external sources already that extend condition duration, It doesn’t seem right that they have that on top of extending stun duration.

If you look at consume condition in a vacuum then yeah, it does look like its much more powerful then the other healing skills. However, you have to think about how it impacts the game for the profession it is on. Consume condition would be absolutely broken on something like a Guardian or mesmer. But its not on one of them, its on the profession with the worst self defense in the game.

Calling for nerfs on something that helps the necromancer take more hits when they pretty much have no choice but to take the brunt of nearly every attack would be just as bad as removing steal on a thief or removing aegis from a guardian. Necromancers don’t have stealth, blocks, counters, invulnerability, reflect or easy access to stability and Vigor. Every other profession does. The necromancer is the odd man out on this and there condition control and there death shroud is there only way to defend themselves. And it hasn’t been enough for them for the longest time.

Often times the necromancer will have to pop Consume condition with only 1-3 conditions on them. Which means that Mending, Either Renewal, Healing Spring, Hide in Shadows, and Withdraw all pretty much do the same thing without the long cast time not only that, these other heals do far more. Providing stealth, having 10 second shorter recharge, an evasion, having a higher base heal. Hell, Healing Spring heals conditions on allies each second and is a combo water field. That is huge. Not only that those professions have multiple ways of preventing themselves from taking damage, thus avoiding conditions all together.

And you say that it’s the best heal the necromancer has to offer? Wrong again. Well of blood is also a solid option providing support to allies and a far better option when building a more tanky build. Its bonus of providing a combo field gives further options where Consume condition does not. I have used both skills and I have to say, that both provide for good options to the necromancer.

Necromancer has a large health pool. A large health pool means that they have a natural resistance to Condition damage as is considering that condition damage is not effected by armor but is slowed when the one suffering has more health. The necromancer is designed to be able to win fights of attrition. Compared to there over all health pool, this heal has a low base heal. It isn’t going to put them back into the game if they face a foe who doesn’t apply conditions. And there are situations(which I have been in multiple times) when 1.25 seconds is way too long a cast time to save me from dying from condition damage. I’ve had to pop Death shroud just to prevent myself from dying.

If you can’t figure out how to use another healing skill in your build, then the problem is with you not having the ability to understand the profession. Not the skill itself. Every profession has a default heal that is usually the best for most builds. Consume condition just so happens to be the necromancer’s common heal. That doesn’t make it OP.

Zaxares.5419:

Would have loved for Disease to have become our pet condition instead of Torment.

I actually really like torment. I wish we had more ways to apply it. And torment isn’t really ours. Mesmers and Thieves have just as many skills to apply it. just as many being 1 each. I’m also a bit greedy. I want both disease and torment.

Bhawb.7408:

I’d love to see disease in the game. I don’t care so much how it is inflicted, but I think it was an awesome condition. The only problem with a spreading condition is WvW, where it could theoretically infect an entire zerg, and because of its spreading mechanic a zerg would potentially be a giant cloud of disease that immediately re-infects people even after cleansing (because 20 people nearby have it). If there was a way to remedy that, then I am all for it.

they had a way in GW1 already. It checked if the creature had already been infected with that strand of disease. If they had then they wouldn’t get infected with it again. Kinda like with influenza. it was a really neat design. Although if a new strand of disease came around, they would get infected all over again.

Edit: I might actually be wrong on this one. Still, this could fix the problem you mentioned.

Bhawb.7408:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Contagion

Make it an aura, remove the self damage, and obviously tune duration, uptime, CD, etc.

I’m for this. Though there might need to be more changes, or it wouldn’t be an elite. I actually really wanted to use this elite in GW1, the problem with it was that melee combat wasn’t an option for necromancer as it was. In GW2 it could be a real option if implemented right.

My favorite skill from GW1 was actually a mesmer skill, however my second was Virulence. A rather underrated skill, and it would b hard to put into GW2 without some changes.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Virulence

I’ve made this suggestion before and I’ll make it again. I don’t think i need to explain what I feel disease should do in GW2. I’ve said it multiple times and many people agree with me and desire this condition as much as I do.

Disease: Deals heavy damage each second. Is contagious between foes.

The damage I think would be good for this condition would be 4x that of what bleed is. Lower then Burning but high enough to where people don’t want to be suffering from it. Especially if they are spreading it to there allies.

Keeping true to disease in GW1, Death magic is the only place that will have traits that effect disease.

Traits:

Tainted Flesh: 5% chance to cause disease for 5 seconds when taking damage. (30 second cool down.)

Putrid Flesh:Create a infectious cloud that lasts 5 seconds when you kill a foe. Inflict disease for 3 seconds each second to foes who enter the cloud. (30 second cool down)

Virulence:Disease lasts 33% longer.

Skills:

Plauge: Adding disease to Plague would fit the elite like a glove. How Plague would cause disease I can’t say. That would be up to the devs.

Concept skill:

Rotting Flesh: Corruption. inflict disease to your target for 10 seconds. You are poisoned. (40 second cool down.)

The reason that I want Disease to be added to death and not the other traits is because disease has always been at home in death magic. It was the only attribute in GW1 the necromancer could use disease from. And it should be that way in GW2. Although I wont say that Death magic is a useless trait line, I will say that it would probably never be used if the staff traits where removed from death. I personally wouldn’t take death magic if it wasn’t for greater mark. This change would honestly make people think about taking this over spite for a condition spec. If any profession should really have to think about what they want to do for a condition build it should be the necromancer.

I hope you guys like this suggestion. And I hope that Arena Net takes this into consideration. Remember that these are just possible examples of how this condition could be implemented into the game. They are not tested for balance and could be either too weak or too strong. Thanks for reading.

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/when-difficult-is-fun

Arena Net needs to watch this. You can literally do nothing wrong in this dungeon they set up and get killed for it. most of the stuff you have to avoid is cheep and memorization, not actual visual ques. Watch this and tell me how much arena net gets this so wrong with this dungeon and so right with molten facility.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Then we have Bitter Chill, Deathly Chill, Death Nova, Deathly Swarm, Putrid Bile, Putrid Explosion, Rising Bile, and more, which seem very much like straight destruction to me.

And saying that they “got around bloodstone limitations” is just bullkitten that renders the entire argument null and void. The bloodstones flat out control the flow of magic useable by mortal races. That is their entire purpose. The gods who created them will not grant exceptions because a monk prays to them. If prayers to Balthazar would work to “get around the bloodstones”, then prayers to Grenth would too. Those spells were magic and saying otherwise just doesn’t make sense.

The wiki states “The specific school each profession utilizes is not completely certain.” Even assuming that each profession can only access one bloodstone (although this is stated, there is far too much evidence to the contrary to take this at face value), how said school manifests itself is very strange. Of the GW1 professions, I would peg Monks at Preservation (probably most obvious), Elementalists as Destruction, Mesmers as Denial, and Necromancers as Aggression.

However, even assuming that Necromancers are indeed limited to Aggression, what exactly does that leave out for possibilities? Pretty much everything can, in some way, be construed as aggression. Even their group healing capabilities are aggressive as things had to bleed for the necromancer to heal. The corruptions/sacrifices are aggression against self as well as an enemy.

Don’t blame me. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic that’s what the GW2 wiki says. That prayers and rituals are not the same thing as magic and can’t be put against the same rules. The necromancer never used these kind of things.

And Death isn’t destructive. Unless you live in a place where whenever something dies it combusts for some reason, then that is a really poor example of how they are destruction. Hell, my body kills foreign agents every day. Is that destructive? absolutly not. A construction worker uses a jackhammer to break up some concrete so they can lay down a new foundation. Did anything die in the process? Most likely not. is it destruction? yes. So death and destruction don’t go hand and hand.

I would suggest going 30/10/0/0/30 for a power build for the necromancer. Forget about the staff, you don’t need it with a power build. The damage output and life force you gain from it are both rather low in comparison to the axe when it comes to raw damage.

Take the Axe and Focus to build up vulnerability, and use focused ritual to use the wells you have for ground targeting. The 30 in Soul reaping will let you go into death shroud if you have full zerker your crit chance will be 100% so each blast will strike for 3k or more. Then take traits that will have your blast pierce, apply might and apply vulnerability and improve the damage of your axe and recharge. Use closer to death and don’t bother with dhuumfire.

But then again you don’t have to listen to me. If you really care about the recharge of your wells, go ahead and run Blood. I wouldn’t use death or the staff in a power build. Its life force gain is much lower then an axe as well as its overall damage. I would still suggest putting the remainder 10 point into soul reaping so you can get Unyielding Blast and the extra crit damage.

Unfortunately, no.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Necromancers were kind of an odd one. They had destruction primarily through Death Magic, Denial through Curses, Aggression through blood magic, and Restoration through Soul Reaping spells (more overlap on soul reaping/blood magic, though). However, although they could always use all four schools with proficiency, they could not perform the “hard” magic associated with the schools (they had no interrupts for denial, their damage was comparatively low for destruction, their healing and protection of others was quite limited for preservation, and their aggression spells were weaker than, say, a Smiting Monk.

The necromancer never used Destruction. Death magic was mostly about reanimation and disease. In GW2, death magic is about players begrudgingly spending points into it for greater mark and staff mastery. The magic was very associated with Aggression. Although arena net never came out and told us what they where, there are several clues as to point this out in skill names and game mechanics.

Just looking at a few of the names of skills, you can see how aggression is the idea arena net had for them. A small list just of skills by there name and not mechanics: Blood of the Aggressor, Cultist’s Fervor, Defile Flesh, Depravity, Discord, Gaze of Contempt, Insidious Parasite, Mark of Fury, Masochism, Oppressive Gaze, Order of Pain, Spiteful Spirit, Spoil Victor, Suffering, and Touch of Agony.

Reading the definition of aggression: a forceful action or procedure (as an unprovoked attack) especially when intended to dominate or master

Then comparing it to the necromancer skills just by there names then looking at how the mechanics of many of there skills act in game the connection becomes even clearer.

The description on the GW1 wiki or the site isn’t as clear cut of a comparison, as the definition in our language is compared to the skills, but I think its worth posting.

Necromancers , calling on the spirits of the dead, and even death itself, to overpower enemies and assist allies. In sacrificing Health and taking curses and diseases upon themselves, they can deal large amounts of damage to those foolish enough to oppose them. Dead and dying enemies become unwilling allies in their hands. Necromancers have the singular ability to absorb Energy from an enemy’s death, and can raise a fighting force from the corpses of their foes. Curses, which often cost the Necromancer dearly, exact an even greater toll from enemies, who find that their Enchantments and healing skills are rendered useless. Due to the sacrificial nature of their methods, Necromancers must practice patience and self-discipline to survive.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The Bloodstones were never a “you get X and Y, but not Z” limiter. Rather they formed a sort of specialization limiter on magic. You could draw from all with passing proficiency (Dervish, Necromancer), or you could focus your efforts to become truly impressive in one field (Monk, Mesmer).

There is a way around the bloodstones. You have to cheat. The Monk did this using prayers, the Dervish used prayers as well and the Ritualist used rituals. None of these count as magic, and thus didn’t follow the same rules set in place by the bloodstones.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

To me, however, the biggest reason ANet had for the Bloodstones was an in-game reason for the 8-slot skill bar :p

You want to know the reason for the 8 slot skill bar? It actually has nothing to do with the bloodstones but it does have to do with signets. You see, spells or skills where going to be rings. And since you only have 8 fingers you could only have rings on each hand.(I’m not counting the thumbs because they are not fingers.) At least that’s what I’ve heard.

Also, to add to that, the biggest reason that Arena Net wanted a limited skill bar system is because they have always wanted there game to be a competitive E sport. The mechanics in the first game reflect this very well and take a different approach then GW2 does. GW1, mechanically, being far more similar to magic the gather then GW2 is. The limited access to skills would promote interesting game play between players as well as tens of thousands of potential builds that could be used and even more builds when designing your character to work in a party.

This also does explain some of the strange choices you will see in GW1. Such as a shield that only gives you 16 armor at max stats when each of your armor pieces give you 80+20(against physical damage). Or why skills usually only give you 24 more armor or why cracked armor only lowers your AR by 20. The reason for that was because armor in GW1 was location specific. If you got hit in the head, the helm would be the only thing protecting you from that attack. You armor doesn’t combine into one super state. Each attack against you had a random chance of hitting one of the 5 pieces of armor, making having max armor on your whole body very important. And where you placed special runes that might hinder your armor in some way. Arena Net never used this mechanic to its fullest, and many players never even knew this existed show arena net explained this rather poorly.

At the moment, the necromancer is in a fairly decent spot. Despite my personal opinion, the necromancer doesn’t really have a aching need of anything A cleaving melee weapon would be nice, but they have so many AOE skills that it’s hardly noticeable.

Despite the play style that I desire that isn’t in Guild Wars 2, everything the necromancer needs to make multiple good builds is all there for you. Not a single one of the necromancer’s weapons is useless, each providing something.

The major things that still need work done on them would be the Death and Blood trait lines as well as minions.

My personal addition to the necromancer that I would like to see is the addition of the Disease condition. Here are some ideas that I think would be both cool and good for alternative builds for the necromancer. Also, If you want to see what disease does, use this link or read my earlier post. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Disease Granted disease would have to be changed for GW2.

Death trait: Virulence; When you kill a enemy, they burst into a infectious cloud that lasts 3 seconds inflicting disease to foes who walk in it for 4 seconds. 20 second recharge.

Death Trait: Tainted Flesh; 5% chance to inflict disease for 5 seconds on hit in melee range. (30 second cool down)

Skill: Plague gains disease

Concept skill: Rotting Flesh; Corruption. Inflict 10 seconds of disease on your target and 4 seconds of poison on yourself. 30 second cool down.

I hope you like these ideas. They are pulled from skill concepts from the first game and combine with mechanics in GW2 to better help them fit.

spoj.9672:

You always mention the 4 schools of magic. But are they actually part of gw lore, because ive never seen them mentioned.

Yes

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Magic

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Basically every time you mention the Bloodstones, you twist it in some way. The elemental magics aren’t tied to the Bloodstones, otherwise the Elementalist would never be able to exist. Yet that’s the reason you said the necromancer shouldn’t get burning (I am of the opinion we don’t need burning, but it’s not inherently wrong).

I never said the elemental magics where tied to the bloodstones. I said the 4 schools of magic are. You must understand that 4 schools doesn’t mean 4 elements. And I’ve pointed them out. Aggression, destruction, preservation and denial. No elements mentioned. I did Mention about how Fire is associated with Destruction and life. However, that was to help people to understand how to associate it with the 4 schools. Essentially falling under destruction and preservation.

Is this twisting the facts? I wouldn’t think so with skills in the elementalist’s line that have high destructive spells involving fire and the guardian’s very own Purging Flames. GW1&2 show fire rather frequently as a force of destruction and a force of healing and life. They have also been shown as bane of undead. This is especially true in GW1 with Holy Spear and Ray of Judgement.

So no. You misunderstand what I’m trying to say. And I’m sorry if it didn’t make sense to you at first glance.

yski.7642:

Lily.1935:

Hexer’s vigor? I don’t see what that skill has to do with anything. It was pretty terrible. Unless you are saying there is fire in the art. If that’s the case, I don’t see any fire.

I’m talking about the skill animation – it’s been a while since I last saw it, but unless I remember wrong it basically looks like bright green flames cover the necromancer. I tried looking for a quick clip but couldn’t find any so I’ll have to check it in game, but it’s one of the flashier necro animations in gw1.

EDIT: It doesn’t let me log in – apparently it can’t find my account (Perhaps because I haven’t logged in for ages..? Either that, or there’s a typo somewhere), so I can’t get a screenshot for you, but anyway, it had sorta fiery look to it.

I think I see what you are getting at. The animation is a bit ambiguous though and it looks to me like an aura.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Torches fit the image of a necro very well, actually. The tomb warden, the grave robber, the rituals of summoning the spirits and dead, these are all images associated with necromancers (including in GW, though they lack the “summoning spirits” association) that also have torches or lanterns as common parts.

A Torch wouldn’t be a good idea for a melee cleave power weapon, really, but that does not mean it couldn’t be added satisfactorily as a different role (perhaps a more supportive weapon).

And Lily, honestly, you keep mutilating GW lore to fit your own opinions and seem to ignore anything that gets pointed out to the contrary. You are not the only one here who played GW1.

Really? give me one example of how I’ve mutilated GW lore? Because I haven’t. And I haven’t ignored anything that has been pointed out. I’ve responded to all of them in one form or another, pointing out the multiple flaws. I’ve been checking and double checking my sources. So… You’re wrong.

However, I have found something that you are referring to in terms of a torch and death. The problem is that a torch, although is sometimes associated with death, it isn’t just that. This is one of those cases where we are both right about a torch and both wrong. Do note that this is from our history and doesn’t have to do with the GW lore. I hope you can understand that… just to make it perfectly clear that I’m not referring to the lore. And that I don’t always refer to the lore but rather the inspiration from the real world.

That being said, I still have good reasons for it not being given to the necromancer. Which I have pointed out, and some people seem to ignore thinking its only a lore one. Lets list the ones that have nothing to do with the lore

1. The Ritualist. This one is easy. Giving the torch to a necromancer would hurt the ritualist’s return. Considering the ritualist also dealt with the dead in a different way and had a very different way of playing I would like to limit the toys given to a profession that would fit better in others. Especially popular professions that could comeback at some point. having 3 scholar professions with torches seems like a bit too much and lowers the diversity between them especially considering that they all share 3 different weapons already.

2. Balance. Burning is an extremely powerful condition. Giving the necromancer an extremely easy way to get burning with out having to spend 30 points into an otherwise rather underwhelming trait line for condimancers both under minds the trait as well pushes players into unhealthy builds.

3. Specialty. What would a torch do that other offhand weapons don’t already do for the necromancer? In terms of condition damage we have a dagger, support we have the focus, control we have a warhorn. The bases are covered fairly well with our offhand and they are all extremely useful in multiple situations. I can’t imagine the torch being added with out undercutting at least one of these.

Draehl.2681:

An elite Blood Magic skill- Sacrifice health to give yourself and allies quickness and lifesteal for 15 seconds.

Weapons?

Greatsword as a melee cleaving weapon – power/condi hybrid skills would be a great addition. Kind of like a melee analog of the staff- a gap closer, aoe cleaving autoattack, maybe a single target longer duration chill + torment, etc.

I like where you are going with the elite. But 15 seconds is a bit too powerful. I would say 7 seconds with a 120 recharge. MAYBE 90, but that’s pushing it.

LastDay.3524:

Necro is missing cleave, but I don’t think that Necros need it so badly that the existing weapons need redesigns.
Necro has lots of AoE as is, and Life Blast can be traited to pierce.

Necro will probably get Sword, Greatsword or Hammer eventually when Professions get “new” weapons to use.

I’m all in favor if them adding new weapons to the game. So if they do that, I don’t see a reason in them not getting those weapons. There is no reason the necromancer couldn’t use a sword or greatsword, but the hammer doesn’t exactly fit their style. It’s about as weird as giving a mesmer a bow. Also, to add on that, I don’t believe that every profession should be able to use every weapon.

Torches are not symbols of death and can’t work in the necromancer’s favor. Fire is the element of destruction, purity and life. Ghostly flames are a Ritualist thing and I don’t want to close any more options for the Ritualist’s epic return. I have several problem with giving the necromancer fire or torches, some flavor reasons other reasons have to do with wanting to ritualist to return.

Torches make people feel safe, and warm. This is very against the idea behind the necromancer who wants to make people feel cold and secluded. The idea of fire being associated with death is a very modern one, perhaps dating back to only about one thousand years. While the idea of fire being about life has been around since before the first civilization. Also noting that fire being about death is more of a Christian idea because of the whole fire and brimstone thing. However, even in Christianity, the recognize that fire is a giver of light and beacon of hope. So going from that perspective is also flawed.

Pulling the concept of the ritualist, I would really like to see this profession return to GW2. They had Spirit Burn as one of there skills which set things on fire. One of there special focus offhands was a lantern further pushing this idea. Where as the necromancer would deal more with the physical manifestation of death in the idea of decay and the dying, the ritualist didn’t directly deal in death however did call on the dead spirits to aid them. Although it wasn’t always clear if the spirit had already died or never where alive to begin with.

So in conclusion, just because the necromancer got one trait that lets them burn, don’t get so hasty in thinking that everything they do should burn. There is a reason Arena Net put it as a grandmaster trait.

MolotovkittentailParty.8931:

You weave your torch back and forth in mesmerizing patterns, captivating nearby enemies. Foes in the radius are Dazed, and if they are still within the area after a short time, they become Confused.

Mesmerizing? Really…?

DrPhillGood.2598:

The staff takes on the look of a scythe when you use it.

ON a further note. Lily, you make a good argument and i everything makes total sense. They seem to compare to “vampires” in your idea of them. Using references to GW1 also makes your argument more viable than others. I think there are just many ways people look at necros.
Im one of those people that see them as overlords that spawn hellish creatures to fight. Thus “hellish” bringing in the fire element i guess. I cant really think of a better way to explain it at the moment

yski.7642:

Lily, aren’t you forgetting the whole evil fire thingy? Like.. green flames? Or flames from some fiery abys? Burning demons?

It’s not what we’re used to when it comes to necromancers, but with Dhuumfire added we already have fire, so why not? Besides, ever looked at the skill “Hexer’s Vigor” from gw1?

I admit, there are plenty of other interesting things to choose from, but I like the sound of “melee cleave weapon” and “mainhand torch” in the same sentence.. Use your imagination and tell me that doesn’t have potential!

EDIT: Ninja’d with the whole “fire works too!” argument

To answer both of you at the same time, I’m against the necromancer using fire in any way. I’m big into the lore and it grinds my teeth to see dhuumfire added to the necromancer. But I’ve beaten that topic to death.

Hexer’s vigor? I don’t see what that skill has to do with anything. It was pretty terrible. Unless you are saying there is fire in the art. If that’s the case, I don’t see any fire.

hopefully we will see an expansion that will add new weapons to the game and some new skills to expand all the professions. It would be nice to see that.

Andele.1306:

HiSaZuL.2843:

Dhuum? Seriously? Of all the things they could have put there they chose that?
You put an ability from the god Grenth replaced? Waged war on? Sealed? What ever they smoke there must be really and I mean REALLY GOOD. Dhuum is mortal enemy of the first Tyria born god – Grenth. As a god, he is attributed to the judgment of the dead, vengeance, and destruction alongside darkness, ice, and death. Hows even fire fit in?
Not to mention the war between those is still ongoing. Yeah Grenth blew up Dhuums tower in Underworld and all that but it never ended and Dhuum woke up several times. So again in what kind of bizzare scenario priests of the Grenth would use ability from the god that directly opposes him?!

Its like bad hollywood movies here.

I kinda stated this multiple times, it makes more sense that the current necros are powered by Dhuums magic (that is getting stronger each time he breaks out and we humans dont stop him) and as far as we know he might actually not even be sealed anymore, the reapers themself stated in GW that they aint strong enough to reseal him and at least two of them is lingering on tyria (orr and shiverpeaks).
Since despite being a cruel/sadistic/egoistic/apathetic god, he is still a human god and even if Grenth carries the title god of Death, he is just in charge of the cold and judgement of souls (as every statue in GW likes to remind you). Even our DS skills (2 and 4) are direct ties to his attacks (blink that weakens the enemy and aoe life removal).
Not that Grenth is bad or anything, he is awesome, but Dhuum got plain more interesting stuff to offer (not to mention that he hates minions just as most of us and 2 scrolls suggest Dhuum might be Grenths daddy).
It would be cool to see Necros be able to chose between 2 sets of playstyle (defensive and offensive) thus chose a god to fit it based on how stuff went in UW (dhuum and grenth respectively).

2 major flaws with your statement. Dhuum was sealed away because he wouldn’t allow resurrection. Aka, no undead minions. So if we assume that Dhuum was awake and defeated grenth, then some how changed magic for the races that was put in place by the 5 true gods, some how breaking a magic seal and at the same time knowing about it even though his reach has basically been restricted to the underworld for generations, AND ignoring the fact that Grenth is still active in the world of tyria(you learn this from one of his avatars) You still have the problem of minions still being around.

The second flaw in your argument is that Dhuum is the final judge. If he did manage to break out, he would end the world. No dragon, god, or captain planet friendship is going to be able to stop him. You would defiantly be seeing his minions at the very least.

Dhuum’s magic was designed to prevent things from coming back. Aka, minions, res skills, spirits, all of that can’t happen with him in power. The reason he uses fire in his attacks was a flavorful way to express to the players that he was against undead abominations. Grenth on the other hand uses ice. Which helps to preserve the dead. its thematic. And Arena Net forgetting this and just throwing caution into the wind and doing whatever they want with no explanation as to why, or how is extremely unprofessional and upsetting.

DrPhillGood.2598:

I have started using a necromancer and and after using the various weapons that are available to you, i came up with something that seems out of place to me. I am not sure if they are able to give classes more available weapons for use, but it seems to me that torches and necromancers would go hand-in-hand?
MAYBE that’s just my view of what a necromancer is, but i think it could be a really cool idea and could give some interesting abilities? Anybody else share similar views or agree?

Thematically, torches don’t fit the necromancer. If you think of them as a master of undead, a vampire, a lich, what have you, fire doesn’t mix with undead. cough Also, the light cuts through darkness and acts as a beacon of hope, and the necromancer will be having None of that.

I can give you a small list of what the necromancer is missing, weapon included.

1. The Scythe. The necromancer doesn’t have a cleaving melee weapon. This weapon fits there MO, and would be extremely fun to use.

2. Barbs. More specifically a barbs like effect. To better translate that I’m refering to what barbs did in GW1, not other games with a skill with the same name. Here is a link. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Barbs

3. A vampirc aura. It would be nice if the Necormancer could apply a vampiric armor much like chaos armor but it would steal life for those under its effect. This would be a nice addition for parties and to add a little more incentive to go into the blood trait.

4. Disease. Disease was a fairly powerful DoT condition back in GW1. It was a 4 tick condition matching that of Poison that would spread itself to other creatures of the same type. In GW2 it would have to change a bit, making it only spread to foes and not allies as well as give it a damage in between the range of poison and burning as to make it noticeable but not too powerful. I would suggest it being 4x the strength of a single bleed and stacks in duration. But that is just me.

Now onto the good note. Tainted Schackles. Oh man do I love this new skill. This is a skill the GW1 necromancer would be proud to call her own. This skill captures what it means to be a necormancer in several part. The torment is a nice touch, but damage for moving wasn’t an exclusive skill the necromancer had in GW1. It was also shared by the assassin, ritualist and elementalist. So this condition being given to the thief and mesmer doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

these are the skills I’m talking about for those who are interested in GW’s history.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weaken_Knees
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Binding_Chains
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shameful_Fear
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Winter%27s_Embrace

The Condition itself, torment, is an example of punishment at it’s finest. This rewards the player for using more fear skills to force your foes to move as well as just being rather powerful in the damage department. If tainted shackles only applied torment, it wouldn’t be a skill to write home about. It wouldn’t be special and it would easily be out matched by the other skills that gained this new condition. however it does more, so this is a happy, punishing bonus.

If a foe tries to get away from you, they are immobilized. Talk about icing on the cake. Although immobilize is counter intuitive with the concept of torment, this is vastly outweighed by what both Anet wanted for the necromancer and the nostalgic necromancer. This keeps foes in combat with you for longer then they want to, making the necromancer even harder to escape from. Which is exactly what arena net wanted in the first place. But this also punishes foes for trying. This is a 2 in 1 punch out.

Tainted Shackles has been the first skill to really make me feel like a necromancer in GW2. If arena net keeps pulling ideas from its past, I might just stop playing other professions. This skill is pure bliss. My only regret is that it’s one of the few skills that really screams necromancer.

Now all we need for the necromancer is a barbs effect, vampiric aura effect and disease. After that I think my necromancer be the only thing I will need to play.

Here are some links for you who don’t know exactly what I’m talking about with that last statement.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Barbs
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Vampire
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Disease

Note: This is my personal opinion on these 2 new additions to the necromancer, you don’t have to agree with this in the slightest. Take it with a grain of salt. Now enjoy the read

The necromancer received a few changes to them in this last update. Some of them people really like, for example well of power becoming a stunbreak, and others people hate, such as Corrupt boon being nerfed pretty hard. However, I’m not interested in talking about some of these skill changes, I’m going to talk about the new addition to the necromancer and give you my impression of these new additions to the profession.

I think its a good idea to start with the bad so that we can end on a good note. So lets start with Dhuumfire. I really don’t like this trait. This trait is both bad for balance reasons and Lore reasons. To explain, this trait is pretty good. However that isn’t all it is. This Trait is lore breaking in both name and in practice. No matter how I spin this trait I can’t like it.

Currently, I’m testing Dhuumfire in PvE. As far as the overworld goes, there are perks to haveing 30 in spite. The first being a 30% extra condition duration. Which is super helpful. Others being access to a few traits that make it easier to switch up weapons for a rampager’s set. Dhuumfire it self pushes a player into using Epidemic even more then before. Considering that it only targets the first person you critical on then goes into recharge, this means that if you want to optimize this trait to its fullest in PvE or even WvW, you have to run Epidemic. Personally, I’m all in favor of giving Condimancers incentive to branch out into more trait lines. However, This also limits the utility that people are going to feel comfortable running. Having one slot taken up by Blood is power and the other being epidemic, this seriously limits build diversity in PvE.

Do note, that I am aware the necromancer has multiple good builds for PvE. This is the gripe I have with it in PvE. Do not assume that I believe this is the only way to build a necromancer.

On an alternative note. If arena Net had taken the Dhuumfire trait in development and replaced it with something that did the exact same thing only instead of causing burning it caused the disease condition suggestion I’ve been pushing for a while, then this would have changed the above statement completely. With a high damage condition that spreads itself, this would lighten the burden on epidemic, giving players more room to experiment without feeling like epidemic is a auto include. This would also be a far better trait in PvE. 4 seconds of disease would do allot more then 4 seconds of burning. Granted you would lose out on 200 damage. And Disease will never be as good as burning in 1v1. But that isn’t why I suggested it.

Lopez.7369:

Stof.9584:

Honestly, Dhuumfire makes no sense to me.

Top priorities before the patch were:
1 – reliable escapes and mobility to roam or survivability to defend one point.
2 – the ability to do sustained damage by covering our bleed stacks.

Instead, they have effectively made Necromancer into Engineer with Burning on crit.

Assuming Necromancer will now run Rabid’s amulet, we have even less lifeforce / defenses and rely solely on raw damage output and triple fears in fights.

You explained why Dhuumfire was added in the No. 2 priority you listed. The only options for addressing No. 2 were burning and torment. For whatever reason, ArenaNet took both.

I’m going to have to disagree with this one. Arena Net had far more options for balancing the necromancer then just 2 conditions. This option was just the laziest.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Please nerf necros by reducing the damage fear does by maybe 10% and reduce the amount of fear on the ds3 skill to only 1 second irrespective of distance from the target.

It is lame at the moment. As you can get someone often from 100-0 with fear and conditions.

Please don’t overnerf necro. Just make it useful but not op – like the guardian

It has only been a few days. People are still getting used to the changes that where made. If the problem persist, then I would suggest calling for a nerf. However, the metagame tends to evolve rather quickly, and I would suggest working around them. The major reason the necormancer is doing so well right now is because they have spent a long time shelved and people are not used to seeing them and don’t have a full grasp on how to play around them. Give it some time.

Druitt.7629:

Lily.1935:

When they say PvE, I’m going to think they mean every aspect of PvE. Not just the over world. So this includes story, over world, dungeons, fractals, events and mini games.

People usually differentiate between “PvE”, “dungeons”, “Fractals”, “PvP”, and “WvW”. Your broad interpretation is pure arrogance on your part — where you immediately assumed they were saying something stupid and obviously impossible. The rest of us knew what they meant.

I’m an aspy none of this stuff is obvious to me. Their assumption that “Everyone gets it” is honestly kinda a kitten move. And I don’t. I’ve never heard anyone talk about PvE without including dungeons, fractals, and the overworld. So yes, it sounds stupid to me. This is the first time I’ve ever heard anyone talk like PvE is separate from Dungeons. Even though it isn’t and its a poor assumption that everyone is going to understand this.

The rest of you, being neurotypical. I never understood the indirect approach you guys have with conversations, and honestly its aggravating because you guys make these broad statements that’s meaning could change greatly depending on who you are talking to and then claim that everyone gets it.

Dungeons are a part of PvE. So they are included in discussion about PvE. If he would have said “You can basically go naked in the overworld” One, I would agree with him and two I would have pointed out that the rest of the game shouldn’t be balanced based on something that was designed for casual play. Two, that doesn’t sound as impressive and although the overworld is the physically largest part of PvE, it isn’t most of PvE. Dungeons play a big part of end game and so do guild events. More so then the overworld.

The update wasn’t implemented to open new build options for the necromancer, it was designed to improve existing builds. Whatever the old Death shroud build was before will be the one that works just as well if not better now.

Druitt.7629:

Lily.1935:

Again you make claims that I can’t believe. Make a video of you running dungeons naked, by yourself and complete them. Then I’ll believe that you can do it. Until then, I can’t take what you have to say seriously.

No, they didn’t. They claimed they could solo dungeons. You disagreed. They claimed PvE was so easy you could do it naked. They didn’t claim that you could run dungeons naked. Two different messages, two different claims, if you read them.

And yes, I see people PvE’ing naked every day. It’s a sub-game for some people. And yes, Necros can solo some dungeons — not naked, of course — though I’ve not done so well when I tried. (Though I also don’t have any Legendary gear, either.)

Necros are fine. Someone, perhaps you, said there’s no need to have a Necro in a dungeon. Um, there’s no “need” for any profession in a dungeon. Some make it easier by allowing you to bypass content, some can speed up trash, some are better for bosses, but not taking a Necro because they’re “not needed” is nonsensical.

if someone makes a sweeping generalization about something, I’m going to point out every possible aspect of that sweeping generalization. When they say PvE, I’m going to think they mean every aspect of PvE. Not just the over world. So this includes story, over world, dungeons, fractals, events and mini games. If they are referring to a specific thing then they should point that out specifically. It isn’t my fault I misunderstood what he was talking about when he made such a broad statement. He just claimed I was making arbitrary circumstances to it when it was he who decided that he would generalize his statement.

You can’t just say “Well of course they aren’t talking about dungeons!” because neither you nor I can possibly know that for sure. Be more specific, because without specifying what you mean, you cause these conflicts.

psygate.5632:

That is a kittened restriction. Lol. Why should anyone run it naked, if we can do it solo. Lol.

Please stop playing necromancer if you don’t like it. Noone forces you to do it.
Also, our discussion ends here. It’s come to the point where you start to restrict evidence that we are playable by imposing ridiculous and kittened desriptions. Only because you can’t solo lupicus naked doesn’t mean our class is broken in any way. Either you come up with an argument that doesn’t involve such arbitrarily picked restrictions, or the discussion ends here. Lol.

uh huh.

psygate.5632:

You can PvE basically naked with just your healing skill.

You words not mine. I’m not making up arbitrarily picked restrictions, you said you could.

And besides. We agreed on something else. So thats good. We will never agree on the state of the necromancer and we both have good reasons for feeling the way we do. I’m a very old fan of the series. And as such, I came to guild wars seeking the roll I once played in GW1. And I haven’t gotten that roll. I have a right to be upset about it, especially seeing as its no where to be found on any profession let alone the one it was originally designed with. If I want to protect, heal, DPS or even control, I have professions I can do that on. Granted the healing and protection are no where near as good as they where in GW1, but I can at least do them.

You have your reasons. I have mine.

psygate.5632:

I don’t think soloing means what you think it means. But here you go.
Arah Path 3 Solo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kziEjoTqMQI
Twilight F/U Solo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiBD67dcKa8
Twilight U Solo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BAtxd1oOuk
On soloing Arah: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/zxlpz/necro_soloing_arah_explorable_mode_necro/

Want me to continue? Just because you can’t do it, doesn’t mean it can’t be done. A necromancer can do solo runs of PvE dungeons.

I said do it naked. lol.

Bhawb.7408:

PvE will not be fixed until they change mechanics, period. Without destroying the flavor of our class, we will not be needed (and the best choice) until they revamp mechanics to not be so favoring of mechanics we don’t have, and so discouraging of our mechanics. It has nothing to do with our mechanics, because we are fine, it is just our mechanics are not the ideal when compared to the “trinity” that does have those mechanics.

If Arena Net was to make the enemy AI closer to the AI of the NPCs that you test builds on in the mists and give them stunbreaks, then the common strategy in PvE would no longer be effective. Personally, I’m all for a change like that in dungeons against small groups of enemies or even a few bosses. This would promote an alternative style of play that would require players to think more and work together to get the mobs down. If this change was put into place, I could see a necromancer using torment as a real advantage against them. With this I could see a decent place for the necromancer. Arena Net used to give NPC mobs in GW1 player builds that might work together in PvE. I would like to see them do the same in GW2. As unlikely as that may be.

psygate.5632:

Many people are pleased with the current state and have adapted to it. If you cannot or do not want to play with it, please, change profession. There are others that work well too. PvE is really not our biggest concern. You can PvE basically naked with just your healing skill.
This aside, if you think like this about the necromancer, please, shelf him. Leave him alone. Many people like the changes, and many people value what is happening. More people have picked up the necromancer yesterday, because for once, we can do something. If you are not satisfied with the state, there are 5 other professions you may play. Or, alternatively, you could pick up one of the many playstiles we currently have.

On a side note: Dhuumfire is an awesome name. I happily give my soul to have it named that.

Again you make claims that I can’t believe. Make a video of you running dungeons naked, by yourself and complete them. Then I’ll believe that you can do it. Until then, I can’t take what you have to say seriously.

Andele.1306:

Lily.1935:

I’m not happy about it. Even ignoring the Dhuumfire(Which I’m still against) this didn’t fix any of our problems in PvE.

Stop, Dhuumfire is a awesome name (the effect really doesnt matter, you know what they say about gameplay and story)
But its not pve that really matters, we are still the same badasses that can solo most dungeons without direct exploits with how DS works on jumps and our aoe, problem is we still get dogpiled into haggis in pvp, unlike warriors who can now go without and peeler/special protection.

If you can solo most dungeons on a necromancer, or any profession for that matter, then I have to tip my hat off to you. I’ve never been able to do that, and even with the update I still don’t want to bring my necromancer to any dungeon what so ever. And the changes really have only pushed me into shelving the necromancer. it isn’t what it used to be and is more frustrating for me to play and deal with.

Dhuumfire is only one of many problems I have with the profession and this update was pretty much a slap in the face. The necromancer did get better, don’t get me wrong. Arena Net also added torment which is an old mechanic returning from the first game, so they seem to be acknowledging they at least have a past. However, this is too little too late for me. The necromancer is a dead profession and I see no reason to take them with me in PvE.

The small flavor of Dhuum fire being impossible to make a good build using spite and death magic with it is a cute touch. but thats all it is.

Maybe The memory of the necromancer will be resurrected if arena net ever decides to bring the ritualist back for GW2. But I doubt that will happen.