Guild Wars 2

Sad. If that’s the case the Blackgate is moving up then, maybe not all of em this week but Blackgate is gonna any gettin saddled by the same “flavor of the weekers” that drove the competition off HoD.

Stop this Anet. The balls completely in your court now. It’s entirely up to you guys to stop this free server hopping madness and the servers that get ruined by being blown up and then gutted weekly by the “we wanna ride with the cool kids” gang.

I’m no programmer by any stretch of the imagination but I’m guessing it shouldn’t be that difficult to put a stop to all these unfettered server transfers while still leaving a free transfer grace period for game accounts activated in the future. New players can still find their friends and transfer over to their servers and the people that have already had around 2 months have to make a choice and stick with it so all of the servers can get down to the business of building up their communities with out the flux of wanna-bes coming and going to what ever server has better weather this week.

Do it already. Other than the wanna-bes, I think every one has picked their server and is ready to get down to business. It’s already long over due.

kidbs.8920:

elderan.2638:

kidbs.8920:

Actually Raven, JQ has the superior coverage not the superior talent.

Whatever you gotta tell yourself.

Blackgate is coming hope they close transfers soon or all JQ bandwagoners will come to us ….

Bring it.

Enjoy the Halloween event while it lasts. JQs days are numbered as SBI was proving prior to the Halloween event kickoff.

Come on dude this is what I was talking about. Man, maybe JQ has a bunch of college students that can afford to stay up and spend their nights PvPing or something and still stumble through class the next day. Maybe they have more Oceanic players. Something, anything. I was hoping and praying none of you were gonna crack off with that week mess, “Oh yeah! We had you guy’s KITTENS until they broke out this ultra unique Halloween event and you know it!!!” Weak man, sssooooo weak.

“Yeah!! AIN’T NOTHIN’ but the hardest of the hard core PvP’ers over here on SBI!!! We’re all about PWNING face and OWNI…. ooohhhh KITTEN guys! Is that Candy Corn I see?!?!? Kitten the WvW guys!!! There’s candy corn and costumes and stuff over here!!!! Let JQ or IoJ have this win. Who cares now, it’s Halloween in an MMO!!!!!!!!!!!”

I know you don’t speak for your entire server but come on man!!!!.

It’s only Wednesday night SBI and it’s still anyone’s game at this point. You guy’s aren’t in the lead at the moment but don’t get behind one or two members of your server already trying to hang the loss on some weak kittened Halloween excuse. Plenty of fighting left to do.

Take a break and run to the store for some Snickers and Blowpops and a mask or something then saddle back up and get back in there! I’m on JQ and I REFUSE to let you hang a loss on that flimsy excuse. ESPECIALLY ON WEDNESDAY NIGHT ALREADY!!! JEEBUS!!!

“Oh yeah we woulda won but you know, it was Halloween! Of course we threw in the towel! I mean, have you guys seen the spectacle of awe and wonder that takes place when an MMO has a holiday event?!?!?! Of course we gave up on the closest WvW match since GW2 was released for the Halloween thingy!!!

Nah. No Sir. Not even a good try…

Ah I see! Thank you both very much. Is there any tricks I should be aware of to post an image as an attachment?

It’s seems unlike most hard core PvP’ers to walk away from a close WvW to explore the Halloween content. Honestly though I haven’t really looked into what exactly beside a kitten load of candy corn, some costumes and skins (of which the "purchased ones appear to be the sought after), and some new recipes. Maybe there’s a lot more to it than I’m aware? I don’t for see anything being that awesome to tear me away from a close tier 1 match though. Maybe I should google the halloween stuff, who knows?

This is by far the tightest and best match we’ve had thus far though. Better be something really hot to get these people away. And I’m talking some KINGSIZE candy bars here! Not no kitten FUNSIZE little candy bars!!! ;P

Niim.9260:

While all of this is true, moving and creating the exact same situation on a different server helped what? Doubt it helps them in the long run, doesn’t help the server they moved to as it will sky rocket up the ranks, and then have to go through the pain of crashing down hard when all those same people leave for the exact same reasons as before. You think it is fun, for people calling that server home, to have their server destroyed like that?

The guild’s are paying to play together as a guild and if that necessitates them transferring servers to do that then so be it. The band wagoners too pay to enjoy the game by hopping around to the flavor of the week following those guilds so they can call themselves #1. Whether you consider that a “respectable” tactic or not, they’re paying to play the way they enjoy as well .

If anyone has any “blame” here, it’s the people collecting the money that need to step up and stop this weekly server “gutting” and I don’t think any of us can see a good reason not to stop free transfers anymore.

I feel the effects the OP is speaking of. I’ve been on JQ from day one with my guild and these free transfers are working directly counter to any community building that would otherwise be well under way by now. I wonder just who are these people trying to impress in this multi-national, essentially anonymous game? ‘Joe-Schmo’ on such a players next "server of the week’ certainly isn’t going to be thrilled this random guy was on the #1 server last week. If anything, it’s something to be looked down on on my opinion:

“Oh you were on JQ last week? Great. So you’re accomplished at zerging around behind the guilds still there who are actually building their server community and developing winning tactics with them. Wonderful. Glad you’re here doing the same on my server while our committed players sit in the queue…”

You see where I’m going with this…

;P

Also, I’ve been waiting for some time now to see the correct “intellectual setting” for the conversation but, I’ve noticed the idea of PvP that many of us who have been been playing MMO’s for the unique PvP offered (separate from the type of PvP one finds in BF, CoW, and similar games) has been changing by degrees to be as “least common denominator” friendly as possible.

Pk’ing is COMPLETELY gone from these games now in favor of the most “grief- free” PvP game possible. Wha?!?! Huh?!?! I don’t know where calling in back up as a tactic to respond to “griefers” went to but I wish it’d come back! Personally I always thought that was the whole kitten idea! High level players attack a low level town, back up is called in, battle ensues. Always made perfect sense to me but now I guess that’s too difficult to expect form the player base? Is that why PK’ing is gone?

That’s just the tip of the ice berg though really. Are people really expecting the developers of this game to find someway to compensate for players that play in the middle of the night in our now completely sterilized and fully segregated “PvP”. Has anyone considered the next ligical step in that line of thinking – by which I mean that it would be COMPLETELY YIMPOSSIBLE without ruining the game for the midnight players? There again – people who can’t put hardly any players on the field in the middle of the night are going to, wait for it… HAVE LESS POINTS! Hence the whole Tiered business. I guess poeple get hung up on the kitten length and girth of their “Tier”. Concerning themselves with the quantity of their servers points as opposed to the quantity. Maybe a chronologic breakdown of a server’s points could be posted as well, would that help everyone feel better? Maybe some mathematical wizard at Anet will take the time to make that info effect the “tier rankings” in some over sloppy complicated convoluted mathematical mess of jargon? Or would that just provide more to be kittened about?

Well before I get WAY to far from the point (think it’s a little late for that though ;P). Here lately, as PvP MMO’s evolve. I see more and more people looking to attribute “failure” on the part of themselves, their guild, faction, server, etc., etc. to anything, and more and more those are being lumped into the catch all terms of “EXPLOIT” or “HACK” or what have you. Fewer and fewer do people seem to look at a loss, be it from unique strategy, tactic, or what have you as a challenge to be overcome. To try and simplify it somewhat (and clearly having already failed to do so ;P) , it seems these challenges are being approached from the presupposition of: “Well, I / We are obviously awesome but they somehow won so… obviously they cheated, exploited, hacked, didn’t something outside our control and so without any possible counter.”

We’ve already convinced the developer’s that we want a “griefless gaming world”, which for me has amounted to the most bare bones, plain jane, bread and water only, PvE to date. Game after potential game has been turned into a hot, steaming pile, of “WTF?!?! is that” bunch of off the wall classes from the never ending chorus of _NERF <Insert Class Here> QQ. And essentially we’ve backed the developers into the corner of producing one PvE game and one PvP game just under one title and in one box though.

I apologize for this post probably making very little sense but it’s been slowly brewing inside me for a while now. I’ve really been enjoying GW2 and I think it has more potential so far than many of it’s predecessors. I’d just really hate to see it butchered by thousands of players seeing only their perspective through the eyes of their class on their server, etc, etc., you get the point. I have a lot of faith in the Developers who have been eating, breathing and sleeping GW2 for years now. I’m PLEADING fellow players, give them and this game some time to develop naturally. Give feedback sure, but don’t come out the gate screaming HACK! – EXPLOIT! – CHEATERS! after every tough loss or bad week in WvW or whatever. Just my 2 copper anyway. I hope a more coherent discussion along these lines can take place here eventually. Hope I haven’t completely hijacked your thread OP, but really, who’s gonna read all this nonsense anyway ;P.

Ianervan.3415:

Exactly. 30-40 players guarding 1 supply camp? Your team wins just by ignoring them.

You know, if these 30-40 players stacked their autoattack on me, I’d die in 1 second. Remove/nerf autoattack from the game?

Honestly, after reading the OP, the above point just leaped out at me like it had a neon sign pointing at it. This many players apparently “anchored” themselves to one point in the vicinity of their turrets (I am gonna take a leap in the realm of assumption and make the educated guess that it wasn’t just one or two turrets they had themselves stacked on though).

I mean really, this is just blatant idiocy on their part if they thought this tactic was gonna be effective for more than 15 seconds at best. Just take a moment to think about it critically.

_"Okay guys, anyone who comes within range of our rifles and bows while we remain in the vicinity of our turrets here is just plain PWNED!!! Nice work all!!"

“Heyyyy!!! Wait a minute here!!! They’re avoiding this one single point on the map we’ve established complete dominion over and are proceeding to attack the dozen plus other points around the map. They’ve uncovered the single weak point in our otherwise rock solid strategy, NOW WHAT!!!”_

Seriously friend, unless I’m missing a key descriptive in your post about this situation, I see nothing more than a nifty kinda tactic for closing off a choke point of some points on the WvW maps. Certainly nothing that anyone could possibly consider an “exploit”. Definitely nothing than a school aged child couldn’t very quickly figure a way to subvert. If the opposition is pulling this tactic on you for anything more than temporarily slowing down your forces at a choke point (and I mean temporary like – until you guys respawn or, you know, just turn around and come from the other direction) then the issues determining your server’s victory or loss start wwwaaayyyy back at the beginning – at the most basic tactics of large scale WvW PvP

I was gonna re-read this because I was sure I must be missing something but then um… I didn’t. To recap here, is someone complaining about a purchased temporary costume having some kind of expoitable glitch allowing them to win the costume brawl event? Is that really the gist of this post post? REALLY?!?!

I uh… I don’t really know what to do with that. I mean I attempt to come up with some kind of fresh insult but, you know, just the fact that the post exists precludes any possibility of further degradation. It’s mere existence mocks the point of it more than any extraneous insult ever could.

Bravo for that achievement? I guess?

I guess at most we can poke fun at whoever has the kind of disposable income that would allow them to even consider such a whimsical purchase but at the same time I guess they’re doing pretty well in life in general so that’s not really accomplishing much.

It’s an incredibly small and minor issue, treat it as such if you want it taken seriously on any level…

I don’t have a dog in this fight but from the sidelines here I’d just like to point out the obvious humor in identifying servers consisting of literally thousands of players as though one were speaking of one entity or individual. This server isn’t “classy”, that server cheats, etc. and so on. I have to believe we’re all well aware that an EXTREMELY small minority is engaging in “dodgy” tactics. I refuse to accept that anyone here can be oblivious to that, it just can’t be. Hence, as others have here commented, calling out an entire server of thousands as “cheaters” or whatever can be done with only one possible purpose, to antagonize.

And from a completely neutral stance here, I’m just not seeing how this could possibly be “fixed”. I mean if you have a couple room mates or brothers or friends on a phone with more than one computer in use, one has only to transfer to and log in to the opposition’s realm and then give a word for word of what’s being said in chat. Heck, for servers with a voice chat server it gets even easier to pull off. Short of thorough background checks I don’t see what can be done.

Oh and I think it’s safe to say you (no matter what server you’re on) are not the only server that’s a victim of this and it certainly isn’t the first game this has taken place in by far. If there is any one undeniable truth here it is that if cheating is possible someone WILL do it.

flagg.6073:

Some very epic battles so far. Definitely the most competitive tier 1 has been. Unfortunately Jade QQ has forgone any sort of integrity as a server because a few of their people decide to exploit orbs regularly.

sigh anyone seen the point around here? Seem to have missed it again…
Seriously, our Mod has even been kind enough to reinforce the principle of which we’re all well aware already. Tighten up please.

This is the best match up thus far easily! End of the week end already and the score has remained this tight throughout. Interested to see how the weekly grind effects a margin this tight. All three servers walking a fine line going into the work week where even the most die hard are forced to log out and go pay the bills…

1st – SB – 51,418
2nd – JQ – 50,159
3rd – IoJ – 49,455

… at about 9:00 server time.

I seem to be unable to effectively post an image on these forums. Not exactly a bug but a case of plain old newbery. Below are a couple of attempts. If anyone could give me some advice or maybe tell me just what exactly I’m doing wrong it would be very much appreciated.

[img]http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii635/Mayam7881/gw001_zpsc974cb0d.jpg[/img]

or

!http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii635/Mayam7881/gw001_zpsc974cb0d.jpg!

Thank you and seconded, Toffin. I’m quite sure any of us who spend any decent amount of time in WvW have seen our share of what we at least perceive to be hacking or exploiting by players of any server against players of any opposing. Lone players I’d like to add, it’s even further inflammatory and pointless to level these accusations against an entire server of thousands.

If you feel you just have to let the forum community know please make a separate thread so that one can be locked and closed when the Mods check through the posts. The one and only thing accomplished by these accusations in the threads we use to follow the battle and stay updated is to have them locked and tossed away. If you have any intent on any potential action taken against the accused please direct them to the proper channels. As useless or not as you may consider the reporting mechanic I can at least promise you nothing will result from posting in our battle update threads aside from shutting that thread down pointlessly.

And to the point of this thread, below is a screenshot of the scoreboard as of about midnight server time roughly. Unfortunately I’m unable to also post the map as I just crashed a second time (and getting back in after the first crash around 20:00 server took me about 1.5 hours so I think I may be done for the evening). The battle score’s margin narrows further as the Oceanic and late night players take the field with a point spread of only a few hundred. At one point the spread was down to only about 300 between 1st and 3rd. Barely a couple days in and I’m out of finger nails already!

[img]http://i1263.photobucket.com/albums/ii635/Mayam7881/gw001_zpsc974cb0d.jpg[/img]

So uh yeah, title pretty much says it all. Just wanted to see if I’m the only one getting this or not. I thought it was fixed a couple weeks ago but now that I’m trying to use it more in place of Bull’s Charge it seems borked again if it even ever was really fixed.

I’m sure we’re all well aware of the particulars of the issue but I’ll recap: Basically, when you select target and press 5, even from outside the mobs aggro range with them standing stark still, 100% of the time I run exactly one step past them, swing and wiff it. The swing never lands. It makes physical sense I guess (if we assume my Warrior has the reaction time of a mentally challenged sloth) when the mob is also running towards you but why does my character, without fail, run right past a stationary mob by exactly one step and then take a swing which, surprise, misses completely. Basically, as the skill stands at present it does in fact close the attack but instead of guaranteeing your Warrior the first attack it does the opposite and guarantees the mob will get the first attack on you.

This may not be a huge deal, but in places like Orr where every swing counts because attacking one mob usually means you’ll end up fighting off 5 before the first is dead, the tactical failure of this skill really sticks out like a sore thumb.

Additionally Whirlwind is iffy on whether it’s going to land or not but purchased skills like Bull’s Charge are indeed pretty much a guaranteed gap closer / first shot combo. Much appreciated it you guys could work in a fix for at least ‘Rush’ if not ‘Whirlwind’ as well. I can accept that WW isn’t a guaranteed hit I guess but ‘Rush’ is clearly broken as currently it’s a 100% guaranteed whiff. That or come up with other skills maybe? As it stands I pretty much never touch 3 or 5. Would love if WW would do what it seems like it should but right now I’d sooner hit 4 from range. And if I charge currently? I always use Bull’s Charge with Rush the worthless pile of kitten it currently is.

Seems pretty simple to me to make it function similar to Bull’s Charge just remove the Knock down effect and change the impact animation. I’m no programmer so maybe I’m over simplifying but uh, really? Why is this an issue still / again (could swear I thought it worked like 2 or 3 weeks ago but I’ve been on alts and stuff so I could easily be wrong)?

P.S The in-game economy here being SEVERELY out of whack contributes a lot here to your profits (or lack there of as well). A LOT of items are still sold for less than you’d make at a vendor (after considering the “tax”). Having a craft is pretty much STRICTLY an expense with NO return. Anyone can harvest ANY material, sell it on the TP for far more than what it’s a component of, buy the end product and STILL end up profiting in coin. BOTS are wrecking this games economy like I’ve never before seen. I am literally starting to see bands of half a dozen or more running the same circle for literal days despite people reporting the kitten out of em. This is a whole ‘nother topic that’s already got dozens of threads going though. By far seems to be the weakest link in you guy’s monetary chain here that’s eating up your profits. Tacking your losses on to the honest players seems like a poor answer if that’s what’s going on here.

I thought you guys had a pretty good handle on balancing it between the financial haves and have nots, for the first couple weeks at least. If this is a case of ninja nerfing for the sake of just plain ‘ol profit then that’s one thing. It’s the model you guys chose over monthly subs and I understand that you’ll have to tweak things to make sure you pay the bills and come out ahead from quarter to quarter.

Be careful though if it starts to become increasingly more apparent that the “haves” are reaping a very noticeable benefit over the “have nots” by way of access to items, and so content, power in PvP, etc. I’ve just recently seen in a thread posted elsewhere in these forums that illegitimate gold, at the current rate, is about 80% cheaper than legit gold purchased by way of gems through the Trading Post. If the relative “have nots” feel they must start forking out cash to keep pace with the “haves”, a certain portion (and I’d guess a noticeable one being that we can assume they already consider your prices for gems more than they can / want to pay) aren’t gonna feel too bad about purchasing the illegitimate gold at a rate of 5 / 1 over the legit option to feel like they are keeping on the competitive edge. And that would just pave the way for more problems, stacked higher, and magnified to top it off.

Like someone else already said too, these chests – as just one example, are a complete roll of the dice much like the forge. Difference between the chests and the forge though? The forge just ate up some of my leisure time in coming up with those 4 items. If I have to start buying gems for these keys though? That’s REAL money out of my pocket. Just the same though, I could spend $100 for nadda and the guy next to me could spend $1 for a legendary precursor (Exaggerated to make the point).

Like I said, it’s understood the mechanic by which your model turns a profit. If the next guy could raise the amount of keys on hand by using his credit card that’s one thing and it gives us a choice at least. If the next guy can get keys on a whim though while I can’t get even ONE, that’s an entirely different circumstance. That becomes a case of straight up selling content, point blank. No money, no gems, NO KEY. Even if the “have nots” availability becomes 1/100 it still leaves us with the same general game as 0/100. 0/100 is by definition a DIFFERENT game from the game being played by the people engaging in micro transactions (and again I point out, whether legit micro transactions or illegit., it’s a different game).

Well, that’s all assuming ninja nerfs and, admittedly, assumptions I can’t prove so take it for what it’s worth. It’s just my 2 copper, consider it or don’t Devs. Doesn’t put a key in my pocket tonight either way though.

Has there been a severe ninja nerf to the drop rate of these or perhaps a posted change that I missed?

I’m getting up around 50 locked chests now and haven’t seen a Key in weeks. In my earlier levels I recall running across a key every few days or so at least and usually that 1 key turned into 5 or so as many chests also held a key (btw, could that possibly be more counter intuitive? Who locks the key to their locked container IN THE CONTAINER?!?)

Anyway, you get the point. Literal weeks have hence rolled by since I last opened one of these chests. Is there one type of mob or event with better chances for one to drop that I’ve over looked perhaps?

Anyone else experiencing the same or am I just having an extraordinary run of bad luck? JEEBUS! What’s up here Anet?

*sigh

… and so it begins…

You’d think every MMO would just put up a template nerf sticky by now:

“Dear (maker of game), Please nerf _________ because I play __________ and they _______________________________________________________________.”

Signed, sealed, stamped and delivered. *yawn

I accidentally posted something for sale on the Trading Post. I double clicked “Sell” because of some lag and accidentally posted something else I believe but I have NO CLUE what it was and now I can’t even find it. I checked the “My Transactions” tab thinking that would be the common sense place to look but it doesn’t even have the item I intended to sell listed. The most recent item I’ve posted to sell posted there is actually from 6 days past.

Is there another tab I should be looking under? Is it a bug (tried relogging)? Does it just take that long for the “My Transactions” tab to update?

PLEASE! A quick reply would by VERY MUCH appreciated! I’ve looked everywhere even remotely relevant on the web and asked several people and the answer appears to always be my original common sense assumption that the “My Transactions” tab would be where this info is to be found but nadda. Thank you in advance for any help anyone can provide me.

P.S There appears to be A LOT of issues with the Trading Post still to this day that require a relog to remedy. Most typically its an “ERROR: Blah blah blah, etc., blah.” That’s another post altogether though.

I’m trying to put together a more thorough analysis (not really, just want more experience to see just how much gear is gonna change my melee game now) but I have recently found that upon reaching 80 and really getting down to the nitty gritty of focusing on the best in slot gearing we’ve all become accustomed to in MMO after MMO now that a much greater degree of melee pwnment is indeed attainable.

I’ve recently begun this “second” leveling up and started off by acquiring one kittened fine orange sword (is orange legendary or is that red, wasn’t sure). It’s a Berserker varietal “of the Something or Other”, it hits really hard let’s just say.

This early on I’ll just say that my melee DPS has gone up a lot. Even though I’ve started specing and gearing to be a nuclear detonation of DPS but a wad of wet toilet paper of Defense, my Defense has gone up as well just with the gear upgrades. Most importantly my Range DPS and kiting ability is just as good as it was, which is to say I can kite kitten near anything to victory still.

This is just a shot in the dark but are the ranged classes enjoying this much of an overall buff to their all around game? I’d guess their range DPS will keep improving but in med. / light armor they’ll remain squishy and I don’t see their melee growing leaps and bounds with gear upgrades like I’ve seen this week. If my Warrior continues to improve on this curve I see the potential for the balances to tip here. Like I said earlier, I’d be kitten to see Warrior’s or any “melee class” pulling off such easy kiting DPS if I were a Ranger or any class dependent on range kiting and DPS for their bread and butter.

Though I’ve seen great melee improvement with my post 80 gearing up I still feel that Warriors should not be as good at ranged kiting as they are and should compensate for that with teeth rattling melee. As much as a Ranger or whatever shouldn’t be beating the bejeesus out of mobs toe to toe but rocking them with range. That whole “balance thing”? Yeah, one of those double edged thingys it turns out.

Imbalances and knee jerk nerfings hardly ever seem done well and to proper scale and just precipitate a never ending tide of nerfings and buffings that leave people not sure which side of the nerf bat they’re on after each week’s “round of balancing”. I’m no MMO scholar but that much is clear as daylight if you’ve been down this road with a few of them, and I’m guessing many of us have in this day and age.

These are my early thoughts after really starting to gear up after hitting level cap at least. Mostly guessing and theory but we’ve all seen the pitfalls other MMOs fell face first on. A-net has too though and honestly I have a unique confidence in them as developers much more than those of past games so far. Funcom to Bioware has kittened the pooch now but most seemed to see it coming miles away. I give A-net much better odds still.

As the title says; I put 4 accessory items (they were purchased with karma – the kind that can’t be sold "dis enchanted) or otherwise used, only destroyed) in the Forge, hit the “Forge” button and received nothing in return.

Also possibly relevant to this problem, I had no “recipe” or anything (wasn’t aware there were such things and still not sure if the are necessary for every use of the Forge). This is the first time I’ve attempted to use the Forge. The items were 2 duplicates of the same two items (so still a total of four just a variety of 2 types of item that is) and were of differing level. Pretty sure all four were of the “blue” variety also if that matters.

At the very least I would expect them rejected but the items were I guess “used up” in some fashion but I received no product. I’m assuming any product would show up in my inventory where I had plenty of open slots, if it ends up somewhere else I have no idea where that would be, there definitely isn’t anything new in my bags though. So far as I can tell those 4 items are just plain gone.

I sent in an in game ticket to a GM but, of the dozen or so I’ve sent (pretty much exclusively concerning bugs) I haven’t gotten so much as an acknowledgement on any, kind of doubting I’ll get one for this either so I came here hoping for help. It could be, and I’m hoping, there is just something simple I’ve missed due to my inexperience with the Forge. Any help will be very much appreciated and I thank you in advance.

P.S Should I post this in the bug forums also or maybe just there exclusively? Wasn’t sure exactly which forum this would classify for.

Maybe this thread is becoming top heavy. Again, I don’t bust off frenzy on a whim. Generally that is one part of a stack for a PvP “God I really hope this kills this guy or I’m screwed” attack. I will hit Frenzy, along with a Shout, SoR, and Endure Pain to really let loose on a boss, maybe if resources are otherwise tapped and this guy has to just die. Considering the crazy damage that can be pumped out quick at the right times especially if built to maximize it is just, well it should go without saying.

Like I said I’ve tried all the builds and stuff. Not seeing any appreciable difference building for max defense I built for max DPS with a sharp eye to evade quickly. The mega defense Warrior you could hit auto-attack and then go get a drink / watch T.V / take a nap / whatever of some other games is not here in any form.

This is all does closely relate to the topic though that if I want to be _really_defense minded I’ll just whip out the Rifle and start to kite. 30 stacks in Def. and Vit. traits still don’t come close to that tactic for mitigating damage, that is to say not get hit at all. I bought these metal plates cuz I planned to get hit. At least hit a whole lot more than the dude in the T-shirt or the guy with the leather jacket that is. There in lies a big part of my issue.

Awesome, thanks for the info bro. As long as it has a slot I’ll take what I can get for now.

(But keeping working on a slick graphic if it’s in the plans Anet!)

This is the first post hinting about the game “dying”. As far as the expedience of fixes, in my humble opinion at least, I think this is the fastest I’ve seen a company address bugs out of the gate right after launch. Wasn’t really any game breaking bugs by far. There’s still some quests and events bugged and the pace of “patching” has leveled out but I still see em putting in the work. I think it’s going great as launches go personally.

Just hazarding a guess here but, are all these “game is dying” threads I haven’t seen yet just coincidentally popping up in literal days post release the “Panda X-pac” of uh… whatever that other game is called. What an astounding coincidence!

Seems to me it’s been a universal truth since the genre took hold, not all games will be all things to all people, not even that one game uh… Watch-call-it, you know. Barring some really severe kittening of the pooch that’s just kind of a fact of life of choices in general. You know cake or pie, Coke or Pepsi , etc. and so forth. Anyhow I’m enjoying GW2 thus far. The other one’s just become a Frankenstein like monstrosity of the game I logged in to all those years back now, but hey some people still love it and more power to em.

Bashing other’s personal tastes because they aren’t the same as one’s own tastes is about as pointless as a post can get though. Not saying your doing that or even that you’re comparing the two OP, just saying in general because those types of posts eventually pop up on every game’s forums. Most notably I enjoy the relatively reserved and mature forum community of this game so far as well though. Seriously.

@ Downstairs Eddie, Thank you. I could swear i had heard that hinted at somewhere but didn’t wanna just come out and say it because I really wasn’t sure. That being the case I’m off to knock out those last few chapters. Hope it has a snazzy graphic on the avatar. If nothing else though I just hope it has a spot to throw a jewel or other buff on it though.

Also nice to hear they have guild option. Think I’d rather have that one actually unless the Story reward one’s buffs are super dank. I’m sure the guild one is visible so we can rep our insignia right? Hope it has that jewel slot above all though still.

TL;DR:

What happened to any back piece accessory slot option other than that really sad one we get early on off a Story Quest? Really seems just outright forgotten about by the design and development teams. We really need some help in that department when you get a chance. Thanks.

Guys, what happened? Did I miss a memo or something? I’m fairly certain several posts have appeared somewhere on these forums concerning this but I couldn’t turn em up. I speak of course of that accessory slot residing at the upper left of the accessory slots on our ‘Hero’ screen.

As a young Charr pup I had dreams of a super hero-esque cape. As I matured my taste in back coverings did as well but they remained unfulfilled. I recall getting one after completing a Story Quest in my early days. It was meager to say the least and carried roughly the same stat boost as a fresh pair of socks, and no on screen graphic as well but it was a start God Kitten It! Oh excitement – oh rapture! I was sure this was just the tip of the iceberg and remained breathless with anticipation (not really but it helps the narrative).

So I come to you today now level 80, a couple quests from completion of my Story Quest and in avid pursuit of an admirable set of gear for PvP and generally looking cool as I masterfully create in the kitchen these days. I also come to you BARE OF BACK Sirs and Madams! Still I remain in scraggled pathetic back adornment with those same sorry few scraps of material given me in my long hence youth! My back longs for the long flowing deep purple and gold adornment befitting my royal station! Above all, that barely used sixth slot cries out ANGUISHING for lack of a massive stat buffing Jewel! ANGUISHING I TELL YOU!!!

Whats the deal Anet guys? Was this slot and item type just slated for deletion from the game altogether but slipped past Quality Control in to the retail version? It kind of seems that way to be honest. Whatever the case it’s there and it’s swarthy smudge sits on all of our collectively otherwise sharp, sexy, gloriously armored avatars.

Your quickest and utmost attention to this matter is greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

A Charr backing out of rooms daily for shame of his lacking fashion options,
Mayann

:)

brickforlife.1364:

This happened to me once when the krait witch event was going on and I didn’t notice. I wanted to get a vista on a high point and because of the many times that I already fell, I just couldn’t be bothered to fight my way back. What happened was I ended up training something like 9 mobs and a veteran on a poor guy. I didn’t even notice it happened until after when he raged repeatedly on map chat. I couldn’t figure out how idiotic that was until I came onto the forums to see this.

Understood. That’s why we’re here doing what we do; so that the whole GW2 playing world learns of this. No hard feelings. It happens at times even when ya know to watch out for. Just being aware and helping when the kitten does splatter off the ‘1oo Blades’ Great sword is all anyone can ask.

Nyota.7062:

Mayam.8976:

I stand corrected. Honestly just couldn’t remember which flick came out first.

I only know this because of the ‘fast vs slow’ discussion on the dayz boards and Rocket’s obsession with 28.^^

Actually, I was really surprised that the runner type is an invention of as late as the 2000s and, if you ask me, they should get rid of that type altogether again – it makes zombies more…conventional, I guess, diminishing their special appeal (or adding another layer, depending how you view it ofc).

The opening scene of Dawn of the Dead (remake) is pure gold anyway – the protagonist getting horribly ripped out of the normal, the weird camera angles (car trunk mount, birdseye) and the distant explosions, signalling the mayhem around. Though the bonus material is even better – there are a dozen of unused mock tv scenes showcasing the anchorman slowly losing his grips and a series where soldiers of fortune show the tv audience how to handle zeds.

And the ‘empty london’ scene of 28 really struck me, too. This is how they did it:

The first scene of an empty London was filmed early on a weekday morning. The director Danny Boyle organized for good-looking women to stop the traffic from entering the empty streets as he rightly reckoned the drivers would be more co-operative with good looking girls.

:D

This thread is about zombies, right?

It wasn’t but you’re swaying me. A bonus disc set of Dawn of the Dead you say? I must find this…

Meh, I took it. Didn’t really think about it. Thank you Sisho for the link. Good to know I didn’t accidentally hang myself out there.

To be clear we aren’t talking about your run of the mill couple of dime-a-dozen mobs. This is about multiple mob packs, vet packs, etc, etc. I’m really getting into repeating myself in every post here of something already posted. The situations of discussion are well detailed above.

sixfeetunder.6508:

i love my warrior. I can leap into a pack and lead that pack to another one for a mob beatdown and still kill them all. IMO sword/axe best combo for doing just that.

I used to do the whole range and kiting in the begining of my warriors life until i learned how to do more and get alot from traits and use the proper sigs. Now im a wrecking ball. Which is great because my female warrior’s name is breaking balls.

Only time’s i use my rifle is a single target while im running to an event or just moving through the zones and feel like killing things along the way. By the time i even get into melee range they are normaly dead from my rifle. Realy good to use vs them non friendly to melee boss fights.

Every time I (or anyone really with an honest request for assistance) posts to speak of a weakness, or in this case what I consider an area “out of balance” with the class and not so much a weakness, it seems someone pops in to say the are a seething pile of unstoppable PWN and their experience couldn’t be anymore different. They are hacking through dozens of mobs like a Diabloesque Barbarian on more steroids than usual.

Now, I’m not doubting you at all here Sir or Ma’am, not even insinuating a bit of a stretching of the truth. It’s just that these types of completely antithetic postings always seem to lack specifics. Could you share your trait build maybe? What sigils you use? Is your gear all orange and yellow from sleepless nights grinding away or literal 100s of dollars of real world money spent. I’m not looking down on your accomplishment btw if that’s the case, more power to ya if your in your college days or something and have the youth to put in those marathon grinds or the cash to spend as it’s a legit mechanic in this game.

Seriously, I have nothing to go on but your claims so I can’t make a call one way or the other. If you do have it all figured out like that then please throw us a bone. Obviously we lack severely in ability if we’ve hit that far off the mark from your example of Warrior-ness! Help us for pity’s sake if no other reason! Please give us some specifics to test out if nothing else. Waiting in eager suspense; Thank You in advance!

Ounkeo, I’m picking up what your putting down there sir. That pretty much sums up how I’m feeling.

EnaiSiaion.8072:

Elementalist: get the bomb kit, run around in circles, never get hit by the mobs and just kill them with “1” bombs dropped behind you. Ridiculous.

Edit: the only melee class that doesn’t need to dodge nonstop is the ranger. Get a bear (like everyone else and for good reason), have it go in first and draw aggro, then go in afterwards and beat away. Adds can be dealt with by having the bear attack them first so he draws aggro from all of them. It’s easy to melee if no one ever attacks you ROFL.

Another excellent point Sir / Ma’am. In the game touting “no formal Trinity” they still included a Bear as rather “tanky” pet. As I’ve said, I dont have much of a ranger (lvl 15 I think she is), but anecdotally I have seen many a bear charge in, proceed to “tank” (as every bear in every other MMO for every other Hunter / Ranger / Circus Bear Act / whatever guy) and the Ranger just calmly sit back flat footed and plink away with their infinite supply of arrows. It also makes sense to me now why 75% of the Rangers (that’s a wild shot in the dark, unreliable, complete over exaggeration of a guess before anyone takes issue) have a bear out as their active pet too, especially in the higher level zones.

Hey can we go back and review the Warrior’s “non-Trinity”, “non-tanky”, “I’m just a DPSer like everyone else here” role and make him “non-tanky” like the Bear pet is “non-tanky”. Can I not fit into the classic Trinity that way?

I can live without a “Holy Hand Grenade” like the elementalist. That makes sense to me. I mean that poor guy is wearing pajamas to fight monsters in. He needs the cool points as well as the offense for a defense. If I could just not be a tank similar to how the bear is not a tank. I’d be stoked with just that!

Good Lord. I’m sorry guys…

TL;DR:

_@WasAGuest, Excellent point and now that you point it out yes, it definitely appears the AI prioritizes position before actually attacking. Obviously why not only kiting but strafing and circling just in melee range so noticeably reduces incoming damage. The only issue that remains, as far as melee evasion at least, is this becomes less effective as you add more mobs as was also pointed out. Thank you for that observation. It was so obvious but I never just outright realized it until you put it in words here. A definite huge factor in tactical scheming.

@ HellionOfEvil, I can only really speak on solo PvE. All my organized grouping has been only in PvP. The odd Dynamic Event or Group Boss group has been nothing but a zerg really. The dungeon PuGs I’ve attempted pretty much turned into us slinging our bodies at mobs while face rolling. I tried too mace and shield, drop banners and be kinda “tanky” to make a group work but I may as well have brought my Warrior armed with Bath Salts and a broken beer bottle, lol!

I agree in so far as soloing in the higher level zones. Orr seems to pack 3 mobs per square meter, and that’s a low density area. The issue this presents to Ranged Kiters is only magnified that much more for the Melee “Kiter” though. At least keeping Range I have a good chance of hauling kitten by popping “Shake It Off” and “Endure Pain” then snatching up a banner if I dropped one and praying as I ran for the hills.

<sigh> scroll down for the TL;DR. I wouldn’t read all this bull kitten either. Thanks

@WasAGuest, Another person has applied the flattened business end of a weighted device to the non pointy end of a fastning object! And “The Three Stooges” is even more brilliance LOL! You make a great point I hadn’t considered. Maybe the whole issue I’ve been harping on really is nothing more than the unintended side effect of the mobs attempting to fill that part of their AI priority list first and achieve position before getting down to business. As a rule even in strict melee I don’t just stand flat footed but attempt to strafe and circle and this alone, even when melee fighting, cuts down on incoming damage greatly, its when multiple mobs, as you’ve touched on, become involved that at melee range I just plain can’t evade enough incoming damage to always giving myself the winning edge and I find myself forced to fall back on range. Kiting several mobs is still more than doable as they jostle for position (as I now realize this is what they are doing from your post). Now that you’ve said it and I see it it makes total sense and it was plain as day the whole time. I’m still left with the bottom line of outgoing damage remaining higher than incoming. I’m still left with trying to herd them all into my melee weps cone of effect (which I seem to be far from a pro at) or drop back and kite. Excellent point though sir. The AI definitely seems to want to satisfy its positioning programming before moving on to focus on the actual attacking.

A HellionOfEvil, Sadly I can pretty much only exclusively speak about soloing in PvE. I’ve been in many organized groups but strictly only in PvP so far. I have yet to set foot in a dungeon. I have technically been in PvE groups but only for Dynamic Event zergings or Group Boss chaotic “everyone just unload your max DPS ASAP” type of groups. Honestly I’ve been avoiding dungeons kind of because I really want to go with a group that is on voice comm. and will take the time to analyze the content so we can learn and understand these new “non-Trinity” style mechanics. I’ve attempted a couple random PuG’s but they all just amounted to a sloppy mess of flinging our bodies at the mobs while face rolling and hoping for the best. All we got was frustration and hefty repair bills for those attempts. I even tried to mace and shield it or 2-hand hammer along with a good mix of banners (I seem to tend toward them more than shouts, at least in my early attempts there) and something resembling tanking and crowd control. For the groups I was in though I might as well have brought my warrior armed with bath salts and a broken bottle LOL.

As for solo kiting I agree, at least as one approaches the higher levels, that surrounding mob awareness is probably your biggest factor in a successful kiting. Jeebus! There seems to be a minimum of 3 mobs every square meter in Orr, an I may be low balling there! Still though, with that kind of density you have to consider unintended body pulls even in the strictest melee, let alone strafing and circling in just a melee diameter. I’m still left falling back on Ranged there too and, more often than I’d like to admit, popping “Shake It Off” and “Endure Pain” just to cut and run and haul kitten for the shore or something.

I think WasAGuest nailed down a very key point. The AI seems to value positioning almost above all else and Ranged or even just juking em in melee seems to keep em trying to satisfy that. Flat footed melee just hands it to em right off the bat but even bobbing and weaving leaves you more and more open the more adds you pick up. Tweaking and adjusting is probably more trouble than I could guess at or understand exactly what effects will come from messing with it. I think giving a Warrior more effective melee skills for damage mitigation as well as just flat out making Heavy Armor more uh… “armor-ey?” (you know what I mean) would be a clean and simple fix, or at least a solid step in the right direction. Maybe not make a Warrior’s ranged DPS and skills so darned easy and attractive to fall back to as well but then we’re dangerously close to the dreaded land of nerfs. Also, as I keep pointing out, there is always the delicate balance of PvP that should be a priority too (at least I.M.H.O.).

tolunart.2095:

Remember that the grandfather of MMOs, Dungeons & Dragons, was never intended to be PvP balanced – in fact low-level mages were intentionally weak and could not survive most situations if played alone. The purpose of the game was for a small group to work together, and protecting a near-useless wizard in the beginning paid off in mid-level when he can fireball approaching enemies and kill or severely weaken them before engaging in melee combat.

I came from games like Baldur’s Gate, where playing a mage required a party of various classes for support, to Neverwinter Nights, where playing a mage was challenging even with a melee type NPC henchman, to Rift where mages were expected to stand next to a warrior as an equal.

You cannot unring the bell, with these expectations you can’t reduce the effectiveness of ranged attacks to make melee more attractive without causing an outcry from people who are used to doing it the other way around. Look at what happens with something as basic as giving tank/healing role characteristics to every class…

Also very true. I fell in love with computer games because of D&D ones that translated pretty well, even in the times of DOS and CGA graphics.

It’s always stood to reason, for me at least, that a magic user should avoid physical damage because their wearing the equivalent of pajamas. The Rangers to a lesser extent because they generally sport hardened leather. Thieves usually have a whole array of close quarters evasion techniques. Warriors though, there’s just no reason to bother humping all that gear other than to see the mob break his knuckles on your chest plate. I haven’t seen any good reason why these roles should change either. They provide for more mass appeal, in this generation of games as well.

Honestly, I kind of feel like a wus of a Warrior when I have to hang it up and go off trotting all circle like to finish a tough encounter – kinda feels like giving up and just sort of cheesing my way through the fight. I hope they look at this aspect and my thoughts are they will in time as more important bugs and oversights are handled. As it stands now, one could almost consider the ranged weapon their priority as, no matter your profession, that choice WILL win you encounters as apposed to a top of the line sword or something that’s still only as good as your ability to stand there and absorb damage. (I’m pretty much in greens armor wise though, maybe crafting a top flight set will be what changes it for me now at 80? Leveling in greens appropriate to my level left me leaning on range all the way through in clutch fights though.)

Really I just think that this aspect of the game needs some tweaking. Heavy armor should mean more to those who use it specifically and Ranged damage should mean less to those who don’t specialize it thus balancing it back in favor of the classic concepts of the professions. Of course this is all pure theory, and a really broad swipe at that. As I’ve noted, it appears this game is balanced for PvP which is admirable to those lovers of PvP (myself included) that picked up the game for that reason, and PvP balance is definitley more delicate to build and apply. Just as a mage shouldn’t get 40% flat damage reduction from a satin nighty I don’t expect to be cracking off 4k+ crits with my Rifle either though in a general sense, even in PvP.

tolunart.2095:

The only real solution to the ranged/melee thing is ammo. In oldschool Dungeons & Dragons a mage’s magic missile or fireball was pretty much a guaranteed kill but he could only cast a handful of spells then hide behind a wall of meatshields. Likewise you can hide in a tree and fire arrows at your enemies but when you run out of arrows you’re stuck in a tree and surrounded by a bunch of kittened off orcs.

In recent video games there are no such limits on ranged attacks, or if there are they are nowhere near so restrictive. In many games you can carry stacks of 100s of mana potions or 1000s of arrows and effectively never run out. In games like GW2 you don’t even have ammo and a lot of basic ranged attacks have no cooldown so you can just keep attacking, even when the enemy is standing in front of you. Even dropping a meteor swarm on yourself only kills enemies.

But nerf player’s ability to toss fireballs at everything or institute “friendly fire” rules that means you can’t stand in the middle of an explosion or fire a dozen arrows into a crowd of enemies/friends/neutrals without killing all three and the exact opposite happens… people who LIKE playing ranged characters protest and flood the message boards with angry “fix it or I quit” posts…

Kittened if you do, kittened if you don’t…

I hear ya and that’s definitely a good point I hadn’t considered before now as compared to the D&D video games of old and the genre.

I think it’s also a point that as a Warrior, wearing the equivalent of a car’s weight on metal to protect me and be the primary mitigator of incoming damage (“Risk”) I shouldn’t have to fall back on ranged evasion tactics to gain the further mitigation of the Ranger. Also that strength required to walk around carrying that “car” should give me one monster swing with a melee weapon and be my bread and butter DPS. Likewise that pile of metal should even prevent me from sprinting and flipping around the battle field while burying 5 arrows in that ogre’s eye every 2 seconds like a Ranger.

In a way the Rangers and ranged classes are kind of getting cheated as well here. Not only do I get heavy armor and powerful melee swings but I also get the agile ranged evasion and hard hitting ranged attacks that you guys get as well. Of course I haven’t really played a Ranged class past level 15 so maybe you all do. That’s just homogenizing all the classes and calling it balance though.

(and I still, and have this entire thread, spoken pretty exclusively about solo PvE content; questing, grinding, farming, etc.)

tolunart.2095:

The only real solution to the ranged/melee thing is ammo. In oldschool Dungeons & Dragons a mage’s magic missile or fireball was pretty much a guaranteed kill but he could only cast a handful of spells then hide behind a wall of meatshields. Likewise you can hide in a tree and fire arrows at your enemies but when you run out of arrows you’re stuck in a tree and surrounded by a bunch of kittened off orcs.

In recent video games there are no such limits on ranged attacks, or if there are they are nowhere near so restrictive. In many games you can carry stacks of 100s of mana potions or 1000s of arrows and effectively never run out. In games like GW2 you don’t even have ammo and a lot of basic ranged attacks have no cooldown so you can just keep attacking, even when the enemy is standing in front of you. Even dropping a meteor swarm on yourself only kills enemies.

But nerf player’s ability to toss fireballs at everything or institute “friendly fire” rules that means you can’t stand in the middle of an explosion or fire a dozen arrows into a crowd of enemies/friends/neutrals without killing all three and the exact opposite happens… people who LIKE playing ranged characters protest and flood the message boards with angry “fix it or I quit” posts…

Kittened if you do, kittened if you don’t…

I believe this, to an extent, hits the nail on the head and is something I hadn’t really considered as well. The last game I really got into in a strictly solo aspect was Crysis (I know I know, I have since come to realize that the consensus of most “gamers” was that this game kittened kittens but personally I loved it and still play it sometimes). Looking back I think I had been babied a bit by more recent, particularly MMO, titles. I was downright shocked at how my main hindrance in the game was keeping bullets in my guns! I had grown so accustomed to just firing willy nilly until the mob was dead that actually making my shots count and conserving my ammo wasn’t even a concern for me in the slightest!

Maybe that is an aspect that they should consider instituting. Above all though I think it’s that there’s a general premise that the “reality” of these kinds of D&D games are assumed to be founded on. As far as Warriors goes that generally is, REALLY strong and essentially wear a car’s worth of metal on their backs for armor and, that’s where there damage (“Risk”) mitigation comes from. It’s also that strength that lets them swing a sword or mace like Mark McGwire with a bat and should make up the “bread and butter” of their damage. It’s also this insane amount of armor (and an assumed lack of “book learnin”) that prevents them sprinting and flipping across the battle field flinging 5 arrows into some ogre’s eye every 2 seconds or praying and gesticulating (or whatever the kitten a mage actually does) to rip a meteor out of galactic orbit and sling ‘Hiroshima’ across the battle field at the opponent. Each class has it’s basic archetype but I think that one alone illustrates why every class shouldn’t have the fall back of switching to range and essentially side stepping nearly all incoming damage.

Not saying they should but strict limits or any on range abilities, either physical or magical. Not a one size fits all, Least common denominator of one, specifically – everyone has Range fighting to fall back on and equalize the content’s encounters, there by “balancing” it. As I’ve already theorized, I’m sure this opens the door wide for a whole new and probably larger set of problems keeping PvP balance in check but I think it’s something that definitely needs looking into. It’s kinda of robbing me of the up close face smashing aspect I was picking my class for when I rolled a Warrior. Just like I’d want to see my monster back stabs from the shadows winning my fights as a thief, and I wouldn’t want to see other classes pulling the same trick either as Thief as well.

Bruno Sardine.2907:

Professions that can use melee weapons (and legit use them, not like the mesmer with the 2H greatsword) should have more endurance or faster endurance gain (maybe even a certain percentage gain per hit) or some combination of two… but only while they’re using melee weapons. May not be the best solution, but it at least gives them more opportunity to minimize damage intake.

Agreed, I’m speaking of a flat Melee DPS increase with no potential compensatory loss in the name of balance.

Actually your comment Bruno, has given me an idea for a temporary “fix” to our (or at least my Melee woes). I haven’t really thought about stacking Life Steal sigils or anything! Depending on how much you could stack on to your gear, that could sufficiently reduce some from the “Risk” side of the equation for now. I still think that this issue, if it has any merit, will ultimately require some consideration from the Developers.

deriver.5381:

@Red Falcon – “Meleeing gets you a lot more DPS but higher risk, Ranged gets you lower DPS and less risk.
Seems fine to me.”

Unless……………….

…you are a warrior with a rifle. Then you do just as much dmg from ranged =)

… yeah, and that’s a Warrior with a Rifle too. I’d like to think a Ranger with that Rifle would do considerably more DPS with their skills and build toward it (I wouldn’t know from experience though). If that IS the case this only throws the DPS vs. Risk balance that much further out of whack.

If I pop Frenzy and Signet of Rage (with Endure pain too), then open with Rush into 100 Blades and top it with a 3 stack Adrenal strike I do some quick and massive burst damage that I couldn’t even come close to with a Ranged weapon. If I consider sustainable DPS though? The DPS vs. Risk balance flies right out the window in my humble opinion. I’m comparing a Rare Rifle to a Rare Great Sword, both level 80, with pretty similar baseline damage and stats by the way.

Many thanks to you all by the way. So far I feel I’ve at least narrowed the issue down to it really being a question of balance. I also think it’s certainly a valid theory at least to reason that balancing the classes here in GW2 is made so much more difficult by putting PvP foremost and trying balance around that while still maintaining effective balance for all the classes in the PvE area of gameplay.

I’m starting to wonder if most games don’t intentionally announce and “market” there games as PvE with a PvP side game (to varying degrees) just for the ease of balance and that as a “go to excuse” if all else fails. We’ve all seen many games try to straddle that line and some end up falling flat on there face a while after realease when they take this “balancing act” on. I’m starting to think WoW owes some of it’s longevity to not at least royally kittening it all up when they tried (and still try to this day) to strike that day. And personally I’d say they’ve done a mediocre job at best with that balance. I mean, if you look at the arena rankings today they still look pretty cookie cutter as they did at the outset. The classes may change in that cookie cutter but only til the next round of “balancing” comes through.

Let’s keep this going please. How can this be fixed? Personally I feel the game should allow for a melee or ranged solution to any solo encounter. One or the other should not be a requirement. Or, for those that believe the balance between high DPS – High Risk Melee and Low DPS – Low Risk Ranged: Do you feel that all solo PvE fights have both an equally viable Melee and Ranged solution? Even so would this not give all Ranged Classes (who by course put out High Ranged DPS but still enjoy Low Risk) an obviously clear advantage?

1) @Rizzy, I’m not referring to PvP at all here (I even put in a special comment in about that to be specifically clear). I know Frenzy is generally a death sentence also (particularly in PvP unless…), I generally pop Endure Pain simultaneously for that reason. Also, I’m aware that you sort of “kite” even in melee. I tried to be clear on that as well, I use my dodges though I don’t appreciate them enough to change my spec to “buff” them (if that’s even the right term to use there), and I don’t just stand flat footed and take turns punching each other in the face with the mob. I “stay in motion” even in melee, the more mobs you add to a pack though the less that helps though for obvious reasons (also the mob’s abilities and CC can greatly diminish our “float like a butterfly” school of fighting there as well).

2) @tulonart, Yes, it makes general common sense in life in general to kill an enemy before he gets with in range of being able to attack you. Common sense in establishing unique abilities for unique classes in a video game dictates that one type would greatly excel in melee while another does so in ranged though. Otherwise, why have a variety of classes at all? At the most all you’d need is a variety of ranged classes.

As far as games high lighting this difference, as the example I believe the overwhelming majority can relate to: the Warrior’s effectiveness in WoW with a ranged weapon is really of no use beyond pulling a mob. To strafe, circle and kite with a Warrior and a gun in WoW would be silly. They are thee melee specialists I hoped for and ranged attacks are nigh useless to them. I find this a general truth among the Warriors in most games personally.

3) @Elydian, I agree to an extent. There have been many attempts at least (some I’d personally consider succesfull) to level the playing field though. There in lies the use of and need for heavy armor, high defense stats and abilities unique to the melee class. Gap closers, blocks, parries, dodges and evasive tactics, as well as counters to CC and resistances to DoTs and the other tactics employed by the ranged classes.

Honestly the more I think about it, I realize that GW2 is likely balanced primarily around PvP (that being it’s claim to fame primarily) and it seems to me this would make class balancing extremely more difficult and delicate to keep given that. This likely makes the job of Devs for GW2 a lot more difficult than many other MMO’s who put PvE, and typically raid and group, balancing first. Point well taken sir.

4) @Rukia, Thank you Sir. I agree to an extent. I tried to be a little more ‘political’ about how I worded it but yeah. I can do some higher DPS in melee range but in most fights the trade-off isn’t quite worth it and actually in some fights the cost is downright prohibitive. As a Warrior my go to tactic shouldn’t be to whip out the rifle and kite to flat avoid most of the incoming damage to actually be victorious. Of course we always expect the damage, maybe it’s really the lack of ways to effectively deal with that damage that is the problem I’m attempting to high light here. Six of one, half dozen of the other though really – kiting wins where melee loses in the close call fights so far in my personal experience and it shouldn’t be this way.

5) @wookie slayer, Thank you as well Sir. Again I was trying to be ‘political’ in my answer but yeah, exactly.

6) @Red Falcon and Tallenn, You are correct Sir and I agree in a widely general sense. As I posted above to another respondant. There are encounters (particularly those with a Vet / Champ and adds) that unless I did approach the fight using ranged and kiting tactics I could not otherwise win, despite the trade off in DPS. What it comes down to is the ratio of incoming to outgoing DPS. And standing in the middle of a pack of the Champion and his adds (as all the climactic fights are structured past a certain level, or at least they have been for me) I simply cannot absorb all their attacks and pump out enough DPS to take them out 1 by 1 before I’m down. In addition to the ease provided by ranged tactics in flat avoiding most damage I can also pick apart a pack with ease only pulling 1 mob at a time no matter how close the mobs are to each other. In most other games of this sort even pulling at range you’re gonna pull the whole pack that’s within range of the one you shot.

Melee is higher DPS with more risk as range is lower DPS with less risk, on that we completely agree. It’s the level of risk I take issue with here, In most of the fights like I’ve described above the risk is so incredibly high of getting killed that there really is no question about which tactic to use. Ranged and win / live or Melee and lose / die. It’s a question of just plain balancing here I suppose.

A TL;DR version is available at the bottom of this post.

Anyone else notice that despite ones profession, build, traits, etc., kiting seems to be just stupid easy as a tactic compared to melee? I don’t mean just a little easier or effective in a different manner or even as a back up, ‘oh kitten’, type of tactic. I mean like it can take a rough pull, mob, pack, or situation down to pretty much trivial. Personally, I kick out a slowing shot, a vulnerability shot, and then just do some bobbing and weaving or just run in a circle even. I might switch to my 2 hander and swoop in, pop a couple buffs and drop the level 3 adrenaline melee hit and then back to the basic kiting formula. It’s pretty much fail proof. If I pull a vet and an add or three though, best case I can get em all in my melee weapon’s cone of effect and land shots on all 3 , dodging when I can. I often find myself watching that Heal and Endure Pain count down like a hawk though. I mean lest we not forget I’ve still got 3 or more mobs slamming me in the face repeatedly plus stacking debuffs, etc. and so forth.

Logic and common sense would suggest that’s why we’d been given the heavy armor and the trait lines for our builds that we have. Personally, I’ve tried the “Glass Gannon, Max. DPS – kill em before they can do much damage” to the “Walking Brick Kitten House, Full Defense – I can do this all day” builds and pretty much every variation of the spectrum. Aside from Thieves, I guess I’m kind of taking it for granted that Warriors should be thee melee specialists in this game and pretty much come standard with the tools to absorb the massive difference in damage that is evident when standing toe to toe vs. mitigating that damage with essentially pure evasion. Unless I’m doing it wrong (which I’m always willing to accept as a potential issue), then the melee style of combat (or perhaps just the Warrior’s iteration there of) needs to be looked at by the developers.

Perhaps I’ve mis-spoken when I say despite any profession as the one I, by far, have the most experience with thus far in this game is the Warrior and maybe I should be posting this in that forum. I’d really like to get the feedback of all the professions though so maybe I can isolate the flaw here. Please, all useful feedback is very much welcomed and appreciated.

P.S It may help to also mention that I have tried pretty much all melee setup variations: weaponry, gear, builds, etc. and I make it a point to keep my gear pretty well current to my level. I’m also well acquainted with the dodge functions and am a fan (although those may need a slight tweak I.M.H.O, but that’s an entirely different thread and really hardly an issue more than a very minor flaw in application).

P.P.S I mean this specifically for PvE, farming kinds of game play. I recognize that variations are needed for group PvE content that would just make this topic a lot more complicated. I also have seen the benefits of both “Bezerker geared Glass Cannon” Warrior and the ability to run in, pop Frenzy, blow the wad and haul kitten in PvP as well as that of the ultra Defense buld Warrior in PvP.

TL;DR:

I play a Warrior. Kiting seems A LOT easier, more effective, and essentially risk free compared to melee. I’ve tried builds and setups geared entirely toward Defense and the exact opposite aimed specifically at maximizing DPS and plenty of hybrids in between the two with essentially the same effect. Basically I’m posting this to get the feedback of the entire community and all professions to see if this is generally noticeable to all or if it’s just a Warrior and / or melee type profession, build / set up issue. Or of course if I’m just making a huge oversight in how I specifically play my Warrior in melee and maybe if anyone suggest how I can “fix” that.

GreyWraith.8394:

I protest that the OP is grossly unfair and defamatory to kittens the world over. I like kittens.

I’ll own that one Sir. Sadly at the height of frustration the first victims are the kittens, puppies, baby seals, and any other cute, innocent, defenseless creature that finds it’s self unfortunately close at hand. Most often this manifests in me beating one to death with the yelping, flailing body of another. Another very important benefit to eliminating this senseless injustice of mob “training.” I’ve been unable to purchase gems in game thus far because my cute baby animal budget is just STAGGERING! Think of the cute baby animals folks and the horror they stand on the very edge of every evening of gameplay. Just imagine those poor little guy’s big, wide, cute, trusting eyes. Now imagine it being swung like a floppy, fury, mallet as hard as humanly possible against another wide eyed, cute, trusting little baby animal. IMAGINE THE HORROR!!! Every time you murder my toon by mob-train a poor baby kitten is beaten to death with another poor baby kitten. I SAID IMAGINE GOD-KITTEN IT!!!!

Ooohhhh…. you were referencing the peculiar profanity filter in these forums weren’t you? Um… <AHEM>, disregard the above. I don’t really do that (er… well as far as you know) :P.

Sorry to necro this one (not really).

I’ve got a Charr Warrior myself. I purchased the 30 point Rampage (essentially the Juggernaut skill exactly except the name). Like the OP I thought it sounded useful and to an extent it is but really I wouldn’t even say it’s more useful than the banner or signet especially not for the 300% price tag it carries.

So now I’ve pulled together another 30+ SP’s . I began this much earlier on in my Warrior career seeing things from the lowbie’s perspective before higher levels put things in perspective for me. I had (back then) intended on buying out both the 30 pt. skills once I had all the 10 & 6 ones I wanted, but I’m really questioning that now. Any assistance would be much appreciated. (also considering that the dankest of crafted stuff requires a pretty hefty stack of SPs – so that’s def something to consider if the OP checks back here).

Also, I’m assuming this skill is relatively Charr specific, do I have to have the “Hidden Pistol” 6 pt. skill on my hotbar for it to proc? If so that’ seems like a COMPLETE waste to me. Any info on that would be much appreciated as well.

Nyota.7062:

It’s funny how the OP spawned the association of ‘to train something on someone’ with the (choo-choo) train and everyone jumps aboard.^^

To train is just a synonym of to aim (e.g. the execution squad trained their rifles at the victim’s head). In mmo terminology you don’t create a train of mobs, but train a (or several) mob(s) at a player.

On topic: I don’t see an issue here, unless you’re afking in the open field – and there’s an easy fix for that (e.g. don’t afk in the open field).

edit: Also, the Dawn of the Dead remake did not invent the fast zombie. 28 Days Later did. And because Rocket loves thatkittenmovie so much (“…an alpha predator doesn’t walk to its prey.”), we can’t have the slow’n’shambling type, we crave so much

I stand corrected. Honestly just couldn’t remember which flick came out first. That first scene with the BF hauling kitten after his GF in the car and then just the, “ah well, kitten it, this guy ’ll do”, and the “ddduuhhhh…” kind of expression the dude in his front yard had seemed so poignant. I also found it so insanely hilarious, I spontaneously just exploded into laughter in the theater when I first saw it. I just could not stop laughing either! Oh yeah and the dude in the middle of the street with the gun as she’s getting in the car?!?! The one who just gets just downright ERASED by the ambulance that mows over him at like 90 mph!!! Oh… My… Kittening… GOD!!! I literally had to leave the theater after those two scenes, I kitten you not!!!

Oh yeah, and I’ve had Richard Cheese’s version of “Down with the Sickness” on my phone as my ring tone for calls from work ever since. Excellent movie if for no other reason than those in my opinion!

Good catch though.

Interesting about the etymology for “train” as an MMO term by the way. All these years that’s been what I assumed was the meaning it was alliterating to. As a “choo-choo” train of mobs. Heh

P.S The scene in the beginning of 28 Days where they’re traveling to dude’s parents place and the one guy gets a few drops of blood on / in him and that chick just goes COMPLETELY APE – KITTEN on him hacking away before he even turns though – also pure comedy gold!!! I think that’s at least an excellent metaphor for the kind of rage I feel internally after some particularly kitten – holish instances of these types of events.

Maverick.6485:

Well, it seems like someone likes to hear/see themselves talk/type. Next time just stick with the TL;DR part, as that is the size of a normal post in itself and all you needed to say. :P

And it seems someone likes to read as well. Point taken though. I only go way out of my way voicing this to avoid needing 1001 replies to answer every off the wall, “yeah, but what if…” post. Personally I blame the need for reports required on EVERY aspect of my job. If I cut a fart there’s 7 pages of forms to file. kittenTPS reports…

Let me give this TL;DR bit a shot:

1. No one is talking about someone pulling one or two extar mobs on them.

2. I, at least, won’t mind if you mis-pulled, need a hand, and pull em over. Some may, I like to hope many won’t.

3. I’m not gonna hoof it across an entire zone fighting every last mob that aggros me either. Just like I’ll avoid any geographic feature that would slow me up so I don’t have to face all that aggro, the other players will get at least that much effort from me as well. Accidents happen though, if it does, I’ll help you fight it out or at the very least rez you (much appreciated for taking that stance as well).

4. If it’s a PvP feature that sounds great and a nifty tactic to have in one’s repertoire. If we’re gonna go so far as to remove open world PvP to nix griefing then this mechanic seems like it should be on the nix list too, and a lot higher up than OW-PvP.

Thanks for the support and bump friend. At the very least I just want the part of the community that are unaware of this social faux pas to hear about it, avoid it, and hopefully improve community interaction lacking any other recourse.

(I suppose I’m also kinda intending / hoping these posts will come to the attention of the game developers and I guess I’m being so long winded in hopes of making my case there as well. Yeah, certain specific instances of this happening to me thus far in game have irked me that much.).

In a general sense I guess I just take it for granted that if you are the type of person who really enjoys MMORPGs and aren’t just playing another game because it’s a good game or “top title” with a lot of publicity and solid reviews (which is just as completely valid a reason as much as loving the genre in my humble opinion), it’s because you just plain enjoy the genre.

If that’s the case, by course you enjoy interacting and gaming with the ’M’s’. Unless of course you’re ’P’ing a specific ‘R’ contrary to it I suppose. Ultimately though we are all in the same ‘G’ and not being a big sloppy stinking kitten is just good practice as in any social setting (so much as this can be considered one). After all why would you be ‘O’ to play games to begin with?

I suppose it can always be argued that no matter how “social” we want to consider MMO’s or the internet, generally it just isn’t. Maybe you are in fact the kind of person who just steps up to some 1%‘er and kicks him slam in the kittens because he’s taking too long ordering in front of you at Mickey D’s. Or is it just the “anonymity” of this particular “social setting” where you can get away with being a kitten-hole that allows you to.

If the latter is the case (and I highly suspect it is), opening up the “whole GW2 world” to PvP rules may provide the pseudo consequences of kicking said 1%er in said kittens for the sake of “saving time”. That or change the mechanic, which I feel is likely to be the community’s desired “fix”, in the name of quashing “griefing” in all it’s many forms. If people are gonna use this mechanic to grief though let’s let all the dogs back off the leash and let me go “grief” them back in the form of corpse camping and kitten hatting them! Kitten! Let’s go back to the days of going to some other factions low-level quest hubs and beating the holy kitten out of the quest givers and other NPC’s. At the very least in opens the door back up for some good large scale battles as people call in their friends, guildies, allies, etc. to deal with the attackers. (See I always felt there was a reason for open world PvP aside from just being a griefing kitten, it opened the door for some massive PvP battles, a lot of which are my most treasured MMO highlights in memory.)

I don’t want to side track the initial point of the thread though. PvP concerns and viewpoints aside. This mob “aggregation and unintentional dispersion” is a big P.I.T.A. The biggest part of which, in my opinion, is that there is not a single thing that the victim can do about it. In lieu of outright eliminating the potential for it to occur, if we at least had some kind of recourse it would change the nature of the offense drastically, again – in my opinion at least.

So far as this being a PvP themed intentional mechanic, that would be an acceptable and sensible reason for this mechanic to be. Kitten! The “out-of-the-box” PvP strategist that pulled this on me would get a nod of respect from me for sure! If that is the case though I feel that the rule-set as a whole does not agree with that as a feature to actually warrant it.

I can accept that this is a “PvP-centric” game and certain aspects pointing to that are above contest. If this were a “PvP-centric” game that didn’t exclusively confine it’s PvP to a collection of specific instances I could see how this mob mechanic could be defended on that ground easily. Open up some traditional PvP rule set servers and this mechanic makes perfect and ingenious sense to me really. In perhaps a somewhat selfish sense among other reasons, I would be fine with it because, as is the case in any other traditional rule set PvP environment if someone pulled this kitten on me I would simply dust my self off, find them, and proceed to dry hump their face up and down the zone map, until I felt vindicated that is. In this game, operating with it’s set of parameters this seems like a mechanic with a massive potential for griefing and a relatively miniscule potential for use as a PvP tactic to me though. Really, I thought “griefing” was the sole impetus for this “we’re all friends – sunshine, rainbows, and puppy dogs all around” type of PvE environment with any hint of PvP thoroughly segregated and sterilized from the PvE “world” at large.

Now, I get it, I may be a bit “old school” in my idea of PvP and I can see how having a roving band of rogue’s pull your guts out through your kitten hole while you were innocently picking flowers or collecting shiny rocks can be considered “not fun”. All in all, I’m not seeing much of a difference between having a group of players pull you apart while you sight see or having a group of mobs dumped on you to do exactly the same though. No big difference that is, except one, and that one being I can, if I’m willing to put in the effort for revenge the situation calls for, go beat the holy kitten out of the players that did this. In the instance of mob “training” (or whatever, we can call it “the extraneous inadvertent recruitment of artificially controlled target non specific opposition” if that’s what makes everyone’s pants tight) there is nothing I can do but get back up at a rez-point (way-point, whatever) and go right back about my business, hoping it doesn’t happen again. For that reason I still contend the best options to alleviate this kitten-holish behavior are either to institute a more traditional PvP rule-sets and environment (maybe a server choice as is the common offering of other games) or simply to change the mob mechanic.

I was sure this was a bigger issue than just myself and I thank you all for your support, viewpoints, contributions, and bumps, let’s keep getting the message out.

As I said I’ve seen it before in pretty much every other MMO but not even close to the scale I’ve seen it here though. Discussion and the “devil’s advocate” are always valuable as long as people are open to compare and contrast their talking points and give those that apply make sense due consideration. It doesn’t help anyone to just be intentionally obstinate or nit-picky of every little point and be intentionally obtuse when you can clearly assume that people are speaking with in the realm common sense.

Clearly no one is taking issue with having one or two mobs accidentally lead to them. Unless we’re grinding right at the edge of our character’s capability this is not going to be a problem. That’s blatantly obvious and no reason to address the odd extra mob or two.

Also I fully understand that some people mis-pull and end up with a little more than they can handle and go trucking for assistance. I personally have no issue with this either. In fact if I just happen by some guy who’s gotten himself in a bit deep I’m happy to break course and go lend a hand. This might bother some, not me personally and I’d like to believe not most.

Really, if I need to attach a specific theoretic example it would be something like:
Let’s say I’ve fought my way through a rather densely packed area with a knot of mobs throughout to a specific POI or SP or whatever. The mobs are rather densely packed and generally prohibit kiting so I indeed had to fight my way to it in the slow hack and slash style. Now I’m finally reaching the goal point, typically there’s a veteran and it’s crew or something (particularly at Skill Points) and I’m in mid fight there with, really about stretched to my characters capability, especially without kiting as an option. Low and behold up skips Mr. “I’m playing a video game for leisure but still have no time for anything but the highlights”, of course dragging with him enough of the mobs I just cut a swath through to hose up this climatic point and send me to a WP to start all over. My personal favorite is when I end up grabbing all his aggro just by use of my run of the mill attacks and he proceeds to smash the Vet – minus several thousand HPs already, win the SP, and I’m left a twitching pile of mangled dog watching him skip away like a 6 year girl playing hopscotch. And yes, this is essentially entirely of what I speak here.

Mild annoyances are well, annoying and you know, mild. Not worth a post it kinda goes without saying. I know what they say about assuming but really, I think we’re safe here in assuming no one is really affected enough to post here about the odd extra mob. I sort of take it as an insult for anyone to actually realistically assume any of us would take issue with that. It further bothers me that anyone would believe strongly enough that this is the case here spoken of enough to post and insinuate that fact. Let’s be realistic and um… “common sensey?” (Yeah, it’s a word, at least it is now :P!)

Also, like anyone else, I also feel plenty of instances where I need / want to get to the other side of the map and don’t want to engage every mob between myself and there and negotiate the map in all it’s intricacy. If I can’t use a WP I’ll make a dash for it but, just as easily as I can negotiate around any pitfall or sticky point in the geography that would force me to face my pursuers, I can also avoid dropping em in someone else’s lap. As I’ve said though, ignorance is forgivable and accidents are always possible, if I do end up raining on someone else’s parade I’ll stop and help in the fight or if it is clearly just hopeless I will rez them and apologize. Kitten happens but not cleaning it up makes you the kitten happening again after the fact.