Guild Wars 2

@Rennoko,
When you teleported away, in most cases you likely took a large amount of hits – which is why you had to teleport in the first case. The hits you took are hits your allies didn’t take. When you teleport away, enemies will want to chase after you, not your allies (unless it’s a coordinated team you’re fighting). Either way, all weapons are ranged, so you can help an ally from afar with ease. Staff alone can aid allies really well. What benefits the team more: being locked down and dying or escaping and recuperating to get back in the fight?

The two skills may be “self serving”, but it is comparable to bringing something like Endure Pain, Berserk Stance, Decoy, Blink, Judge’s Intervention, even Signet of Spite. I think the support you can provide to the team by just being alive and using weapon skills by far overshadows a single corrupt boon or signet of spite (altho those can be game-changing in certain situations as well), which can be taken instead of SW/Wurm. Additionally, Spectral Wall (if it is taken) is an amazing support skill as well. But as I said, the 3rd utility is optional, so you can still go with Epidemic, for example. But it comes down to preference.

Well, I didn’t write it, but I did mean to come to it in one of the comments. If the fight isn’t very favorable, you shouldn’t blow both escapes for a single stomp, unless it is meant to rally an ally, for example, or you have a plan afterwards. There’s many moments where you could perform the stomp but don’t because it’s not wise, but there are just as many moments where you perform it. And on top of that, you still have Plague.

erasariel.1532:

DR strong! D for defense, R for resilience! Or something.

Go DR! We can only go one way – and that is up!

http://youtu.be/iSBl7VjiT1g?t=51s

Haha thanks for the support

What Y Not said is true (with regards to survivability :P ). However, if you go with 30/20/0/0/20, you will still have the burns, just no the terror. Also, the 3rd utility slot is optional for stuff like Epidemic, Corrupt Boon, Signet of Spite. Overall, you may not deal as much damage as a burn/terror Necro, but you will be able to survive far better. You won’t have the extreme burst, but you’ll have a constant presence in a fight and constant damage output, which in my opinion makes up for the damage.

-If they do add Spectral Attunement to adept tier….. then burn/terror will be possible with this as well.
Hmmm I’ll look into Wurm location for the next vid. There’s so many :P lot of very nice, troll spots haha

p.s. I only stole your Flesh Golem Y Not

Sigil of Torment
-AoE
-Works very nicely with Runes of Tormenting
-Small chance to proc, so you need a decent crit chance
-Stacks with other sigils with cooldowns

Sigil of Earth
-Really good when you have at least partially rabid stats.
-Stacks with Sigil of Tormenting
-Single Target

Sigil of Geomancy
-Does additional power damage
-Need to be close to the target
-Can de-stealth you if you swap while in combat
-AoE

Sigil of Energy
-One of my personal favourites. It’s almost like you have Vigor.
-Defensive
-Works well with Mark of Evasion trait

Sigil of Hydromancy
-Works well with condi (or chill) duration builds
-Does additional power damage
-More defensive than offensive
-Can chill melee attackers when you need to run

Sigil of Doom
-Good against high healing targets
-Offensive
-Single target (could be nice with Epidemic)

Sigil of Battle
-Indirectly offensive
-I’d say it only pays off when you’ve got good boon/might duration (E.g. Runes of the Noble and possibly some Death Magic)

Sigil of Bursting
-Also quite good, similar to Sigil of Corruption, except it’s permanent
-Could use this instead of Sigil of Tormenting (if you choose to swap out the stacking weapon.)

A good setup for start can be:

1) Sigil of Earth + Sigil of Corruption / Sigil of Earth
-Sigil of Corruption can be swapped out with Sigil of Bursting or Torment when it stacks up, but it’s not necessary
2) Sigil of Energy / Sigil of Energy – if you are used to characters with Vigor :P
-Defensive, good for survival. Can time your dodges because each weapon swap = dodge.

I think that sums it up. I know it’s broad and there’s a lot of choice but… so is the build

I hope this guide was helpful and people find it useful. I will work on a new video showing some strategies more explicitly/clearly. If you have any questions, feel free to throw them at me.

Some additional videos, if interested:
-Has a few good examples in the first half of the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxOc51oQmkA
-More of a fun one with just roaming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfpSINTvXBk
-Old one, but shows some actual techniques
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT45kZdZ3dQ

Gear:
—For a condition build: Rabid, Dire, or a mix of both.
Rabid is more damage oriented because of higher crit chance and works well with on-crit effects, like bleeds/burns/torment. I use a mix of both such that my crit chance is at around 30%. Personally, I’m not sure I would use any Carrion on a pure condi build.

Runes: There’s a big choice here:

Runes are variable, but you may choose to go with:
Runes of Scavenging (I would highly recommend these)
-Overall provides the most condition damage, to my knowledge
-The lifesteal deals direct damage unaffected by the enemy’s armor (1k damage each time)
Runes of Undead
-Provides a bit less condition damage than Rune of Scavenging
-Provides more toughness
-Provides no lifesteal
Runes of Tormenting
-These provide some extra AoE damage when you heal, although I think the radius is fairly small. This rune will make your Tainted Shackles last 45% longer and will also apply to Sigil of Torment.
-I am currently playing with these, and so far I find them better than Runes of Scavenging. If you choose to bring Epidemic, and also have Sigil of Torment, you could stack up to 12 stacks of Torment on a group of enemies (3 from Tainted Shackles, 2 from Runes – when you heal, and one from Sigil of Torment, if you use it. This is 6 stacks on a group. Then Epidemic for another 6 to those around your target). Without the sigil, it’s 10 stacks – still very good.
Rune of Antitoxin
-This one is interesting, I haven’t tried it
-The 5 stacks of might would be applied when you use Corrupt Boon as well
-Makes you more resistant to conditions
Rune of Adventurer.
-Often overlooked, but they are quite good because of the dodge when you heal
-Could be good if coupled with Sigil of Energy for lots of dodging, although I wouldn’t recommend it if you have an ally who can give you Vigor, unless you want to dodge 24/7
Rune of the Noble
-I’d only ever use these if I have Sigils of Battle. You would be able to maintain quite a bit of might.

Each has its own benefits, but as an easy (and cheap) start, Runes of Scavenging are spot on, in my opinion.

Sigils – for condi:
Sigils are optional as well, although Sigil of Corruption is basically a must.You can stack it on one weapon then swap to another weapon once you have full stacks. The stacks will remain.

The weapon you swap out could be one with Sigil of Torment because it works with other on-crit sigils. So if you had Sigil of Earth on Scepter and Sigil of Torment on off-hand Dagger, they would both work. Sigil of Torment is the only one that stacks with other sigils with cooldowns. Otherwise they would alternate.

I use warhorn because I felt like I needed more control over the enemy. Dazing a foe gives me a breather to perform a few actions in peace without worrying that I’ll get hit (especially true with Banshee’s Wail + Mesmer Runes ). It can also interrupt heals and other powerful skills (also works with Perplexity Runes ).
-Another reason I really like it is because it allows you to tank. If you use Locust Swarm then pop Death Shroud in the middle of a few enemies, you will be able to take quite a bit of hits. If you couple this with Spectral Walk (which further charges your life force), you will be able to take a large amount of hits.
-It comes down to preference. Weapon choices will be different if you go with a power build. However, I don’t find a power Necro to be my cup of tea so my knowledge of the playstyle is limited.

A few tips:
First, it takes a lot of time, practice and trial/error to get your “internal memory” of spectral walk and wurm down. After a while, you will get a sense of when they should be recharged and ready to use.
-A general strategy is to cast wurm far from the fight, or a place where you would wish to retreat if things go south. Skeptics would say that the wurm will just get killed by this or that, but that’s generally not an issue. It is especially not an issue once you learn where aggressive NPCs are (and avoid them) and you place the wurm AWAY from the fight. I don’t know many people who will run behind enemy lines, while leaving allies to try to destroy one wurm. It’s not worth it.
-I typically cast Locust swarm and Spectral Walk, then Dark Path into a clumped group of enemies. They will all be chilled and crippled, then I go with Tainted Shackles to root them. You should still have a bit of time on your Spectral Walk to do a few things, like drop marks. You have the safety net of Spectral Walk, so you can port back if needed.
-A good strategy is to force your enemies to face their camera AWAY from where you used Spectral Walk or where your Wurm is standing so that you port behind them. This will confuse them and will buy you a few precious seconds.

Utilities:
Spectral walk:

Pros:
This skill is basically a double stun break. Its uses are countless.
-Stun break upon use, then teleport backwards as a “pseudo stun break”
-Allows you to tank a bit of damage by using it, then going into death shroud. Each hit you take (with a 1 second internal cooldown) charges your life force by 2.2%. (naturally it is 2% but with Gluttony – 5 points in Soul Reaping – it becomes 2.2%. Marks are also 3.3% instead of 3.0%, for example).
-It allows you to juke, escape
-Allows you to stomp
-Allows you to survive extreme falls
-Provides swiftness
-Provides life force upon use (From Spectral Attunement trait)

Cons:
-It deals no damage
-In many cases, it requires you to move – problem when rooted, slowed, etc.
-People can see your trail (although most ignore it)

Flesh Wurm: / Necrotic Traversal

Pros:
- Instant Stun Break
-Charges 11% Life force (10% + 1% from Gluttony)
-Attacks and deals damage
-Blast finisher and poison all around when porting back (useful only in a very coordinated team)
-Effective disengage
-Can be used for stomping

Cons:
-Can die, be killed by neutrals or players (not an issue with practice)
-Can’t conveniently be unsummoned without porting back – unless you swap utilities out of combat
-Has a cast time to summon (but not the actual teleport)
-Can glitch and not teleport (only happens on very uneven terrain or with obstacles in the way -not an issue with enough practice)
-Dies when going underwater
-Dies when transforming into Lich Form or Plague, or any other transformation

Weapons:
You’ll notice that in many of the build examples, Greater Marks are used. This implies that a staff is necessary, but it isn’t – I just find the weapon priceless so I always use it. The weapons are optional.
However, as an easy start for a condition Necro, you could start with Staff and Scepter/Dagger or Scepter/Warhorn. Both dagger and warhorn have their own benefits.

Off-hand Dagger:

Pros:
-AoE weapon
-Good condition cleanse (the transferred conditions deal damage too )
-Blinds
-Excellent AoE weakness source, especially now that Weakening Shroud was nerfed
-Nice damage with bleeds

Cons:
-Lack of crowd control
-Lack of swiftness
-Need to face the target to transfer conditions, which can also be dodged

Overall off-hand dagger is an excellent weapon and most condition necromancers use it.

Warhorn:

Pros:
-Provides swiftness
-AoE weapon
-Cripples all those around you, allowing you to escape from melee foes
-Charges your life force from each enemy hit (with Locust Swarm)
-Dazes people in a cone infront of you
-Deals decent damage with Locust swarm, which also works with on-crit effects, such as bleeds
-Very nice with life siphoning traits

Cons:
-Leaves you a lot more vulnerable to conditions
-Puts you in combat if you hit enemies with Locust Swarm
-It is a close range weapon
-Doesn’t deal as much damage as dagger and doesn’t weaken enemies

Examples are:
30/20/0/0/20

I’m sure we are all familiar with 30 points in Spite – 30% condition duration and burning. This would be a very damage-oriented variation of the build.

0/30/20/0/20
This variation leaves you with 10 more points in Curses and 20 points in Death Magic. The 10 points in Curses are variable, again. You may choose to go with, for example: Terror , Focused Rituals , Banshee’s Wail (VERY good with Runes of Mesmer) and Lingering Curse.
If you are going with staff, the 20 points in Death Magic are meant for Greater Marks , which many people find priceless. The 10 points are optional: Shrouded Removal , Staff Mastery , Ritual of Protection (Protection on Well Cast), Minion Master (20% decreased cooldown on minions) or Spiteful Vigor (5 sec retaliation upon using heal skill).

0/20/20/10/20
Contains 10 point in Blood Magic and 20 in Death Magic.
The 10 in Blood Magic variable, depending what you like. A nice suggestion is Mark of Evasion , which will cause a Mark of Blood upon your dodge.
This mark will:
-Cause 2 stacks of bleed
-Give regeneration to you and nearby allies
-Reveal you when stealthed and dodging (bad)
-Be buffed by all your other traits applying to marks (large, unblockable, charging 3.3% of life force)

0/20/20/0/30
Here, you may choose to go with Deathly Perception (if you are in a power build), Foot in the Grave (nice stability against crowd control and lockdown). Personally, when I have Wurm and Spectral Walk equipped, I rarely find myself in need of stability, so I don’t feel the need to go an extra 10 points in Soul Reaping. However, it all depends on personal preferences.

Hello dear Necromancers,

A common complaint I’ve heard is that Necros can’t be mobile, have no disengage and can’t escape. In light of this, here is a guide/demonstration showing tricks that can be used with the Necromancer to achieve some interesting mobility options. The guide consists of two parts: the first shows the basics (important traits and utilities and how to use them) while the second shows roaming/combat. I realise the combat could use more text/voice to explain the thought process and strategy more clearly. I will work on that in the next video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhcaEyWW-sc&feature=c4-overview&list=UUqFKmVqiOjRdtU2gKWxdd0g

Traits:

The most vital traits are:

Curses – 20 points for Spectral Attunement
This trait will increase duration of your Spectral Walk (and Wall/Spectral Armor, if you choose to use them). Spectral Walk works without this trait, but it is not nearly as effective.
At 10 points, you can place whatever you wish, it is entirely optional.

Soul Reaping – 20 points for Soul Marks
To me, when using staff, this trait is simply priceless. It ensures you have a steady stream of life force and thus, increases your survival quite a bit. In fact, I rarely find myself without life force. I also like this trait because as a condition Necromancer, I don’t use staff auto attack much, only as a filler. It deals minimal damage and its only purpose would be to charge your life force. As such, I tend to use mostly marks, which now nicely recharge life force themselves. At 10 points, you may choose to take Spectral Mastery for reduced spectral cooldowns. Spectral Mastery is optional… however, I do take it. You could also take Unyielding Blast if you are in a power build and want more AoE.
If you REALLY don’t want to, you don’t have to take Soul Marks. However, from experience I found that without it, your Life Force will run out and stay low once you deplete it. Comes down to personal preference, again, but for me, I will never go back to not using it.

This leaves you with 30 points to spend wherever you wish.

Hehe, we always try to do camp runs but for some reason always get stuck in GoM territory. You guys have a quick response time so it’s never without conflict. Very fun fights though… had better fights in the last week than I’ve had in long time

Alrighty lads and lassies, let us make it a nice match… again.

Ready… steady…. GO!

Haha I think I remember that. An uplevel alone is tasty. An army is just plan delicious ^,.,^

Fun times this week in EB
All we want to do is make a camp loop but we can’t take 2 camps without a decent fight.

titanlectro.5029:

To the [OHai] team who managed to revive each other in SM:

You guys are REALLY good PvPers! When I called for backup, I might have accidentally summoned a whole zerg to smoosh you. Never the less, I hope you enjoyed your say in The Stonemist Resort. Recommend us to your friends!

- The ASH ele who played music for you.

Hahaha, and there I was, "Don’t kill her, don’t! She played bells for me "
It was fun. Thought we had an upper hand on a large group… then I saw a sea of red … then a dark tunnel with a bright light at the end.

We’ll make sure to visit again, as long as the hospitality is still the same x)

—Those who say healing power scales badly aren’t really correct (at least not fully). You can use Healing Surge to heal for 12k with full adrenaline and shouts healing for around 3k. Three shouts, each healing 3k = an extra 9k heal.
—I’d recommend, personally, going with 10 extra points in Defense instead of Arms and grab Defy Pain, which will make you resistant to focus fire. Also, if you are in WvW/PvE, you can grab Koi Cakes (or other +condi duration food to make up for the +50% bleeds lost from 10 points in Arms). You will have more defense, and still the same amount of damage (if not more, because with koi cakes, burns will last longer as well ).
—Rabid will be much more damage than apothecary, but apothecary is for a support build. So if you want a support build, I’d suggest you go apothecary and, for example, shouts. Otherwise you can go dire/rabid and stances instead of healing shouts, because healing shouts aren’t worth it without healing power investment, personally.

Wow, I actually REALLY like some of these…
Some that I’d personally love to have from the list are:

*Deadened Flesh – Gain Protection for 2 seconds upon entering Death Shroud
*Spectral Shielding – Gain Toughness based on Life Force
*Absorb Vis – Gain Life Force when struck below health threshold
*Barbed Armor – Gain protection (5s) whenever you gain retaliation.
*Hardened Blood – Gain protection (5s) when struck by a critical hit.
*Tyranny – Gain toughness for every boon on you.
*Dark Emergence – Blind nearby foes when exiting Death Shroud (with ICD)
*Chilling Presence- Chill enemies around you when you drop below 50% (30 second cooldown)
*Tendrils of Corruption – Chance to corrupt a foe’s boon when struck.
Hypothermia – Chilled foes deal less damage to you. (N%)

The ideas for protection are really nice, especially after Weakening Shroud nerf.

Ahh, we lacked quite a few people as well

annnnddd…. GoM… I know you like your SM but.. doing this for 20 minutes without any thief nearby is a little silly. But then again, dedication is dedication ;p

pedrst.3127:

[Ohai] group in EB that we just 2v2’d with. Nice kiting necro, life leech from mobs is op :p

You guys -squints-. Fun fights, had to figure out who to focus fire amongst your bunch.
I’ve been trying to get to that skelk for a good 10 seconds after my escape glitched but the roots + CC made that happen a tad bit too late :P

Looking forward to seeing more of yah

You seem to have taken some philosophy class, and I woulda taken you seriously if you didn’t make spelling mistakes. Trying to sound intelligent and making simple spelling mistakes is… interesting, to say the least.

As for the Warrior nerfs… instead of getting caught up in little words and “what if they meant this? They should have used this word instead of that”, try playing WvW and then come back here. If you say Warriors still aren’t OP then… well… we all know who to not take seriously.

Thanks for your time,
A realist.

Omgsh totally nothing much. And you?

Dovgan.8605:

Good fun and good fights tonight. Ran into [OHai] when we were starting to dwindle off, still a fun time fighting you guys, hopefully next time we cross paths we won’t be down to 3 players :| (solid focus fire on your guys part though). Got accused of hacking by someone who sent a /p invite, so we were on a decent run earlier in the evening. All in all fun stuff tonight, keep the good fights coming.

You guys were fun to fight… I think I swallowed one too many cannon balls tho haha… I’m afraid to go to the bathroom now… Erm… anyway. You guys are skilled, and so are the [moob] guys with you, altho the guy on the cannon, whoever it was, has a death wish

I don’t think you were there though? I remember you from around Mendons fun times as well sir

Today started off on the wrong foot with blood and tears,
but ended off with really fun fights with [vox] Warrior, [CCC] ele, [CS] thief, and [ASH] warrior.

Noble.3647:

I see you keep going back to Plague – while ignoring the concept of PRACTICAL Stability; Plague does NOT allow you to Use Skills (Destroys All Minions) & does NOT allow you to HEAL. So, no, the elite is not wasted so much as the STABILITY is WASTED.

I keep going back to it because it’s such an awesome skill :P. Practical stability is your definition. Stability is stability, no matter what we call it. And it serves one purpose and one purpose only – to avoid crowd control. This is for either offense or defense purposes. In this case, I’m assuming we’re talking about defense, as is the most common case. Does plague do this? It does MORE than this. A LOT more. While it is true that you cannot perform any other actions, it really doesn’t matter because in terms of defense, Plague is god. THAT’s why I keep coming back to it.

“you probably won’t die any time soon as Plague” – well this proves that you don’t WvW (& likely don’t PvP) much. Plague (without Heal or Cleanse) is a bit like Death Shroud … meaning a Death Trap, but not as much of one as Lich (due to the Easy Target factor).

If you allow yourself to die while in Plague, you are not doing it right.

My build was designed for WvW, the one I showed you, as it relies on food for extra dodge and might, as well as certain boon duration runes which are only obtainable through dungeons (although the last 2 runes could be replaced with might duration runes or runes of altruism while in PvP).

On a more positive and friendly note, I`d love to duel you and experiment with different builds, if you wish.

Noble.3647:

9) Not saying that it would not be, only that it is a fact; but since we are so deprived on the other points, I am willing to negotiate. And, as I said, Stealth/Invisibility is already “flat–out OP” since causes loss of target & has such a brief cooldown. So spread the OP around. That would be fair – if every profession had some OP qualities; I mean several of them have OP qualities now, why not give everyone some?

While that seems fair, it would make all the classes basically the same class. If you see a burn/terror necro with perma stability, vigor, protection, able to stealth, block and evade…wouldn’t that first and foremost be OP? And Second, wouldn’t that look a lot like other classes? In terms of what is available? Then you are basically playing the same class with different particle effects. That’s not a game that I, or most other people, would want to play. I understand what you are saying about fairness, but just because “they have it and we don’t” doesn’t mean we are weaker. We just perform that function in a different way. For example… no blocks, but access to blinds/cripples/chills/CC to negate damage. Both can be used to protect you, but in a different way (not to mention CC can be used to protect an ally, as opposed to just yourself). Similarly, applying protection to yourself protects you, and only you from all incoming attacks. But you are a single target. Necros have the notorious ability to weaken for a long time in an AoE fashion. So, instead of protecting THEMSELVES through protection, they weaken the ENEMY. It’s basically the same effect, except weakening a group of enemies helps allies too.

PLEASE stop pulling traits out of thin air as if everyone should have all the traits that you mentions JUST to get the basic requirements that Every Other Profession Gets WITHOUT having to Trait for them.

Sorry, no can do. It isn’t fair to compare professions in such a manner. Excluding distortion, which is a short duration and a super long cooldown, Mesmers have a mantra that gives em stability. A mantra. You call that ”practical” stability, I call it BAD stability. Same goes for thieves. BAD stability. Just because it has a label and it exists doesn’t make it good. Not by a long shot. We could do a similar thing when comparing ANY two professions and compare what Necros have and other don’t. ANY. Different professions achieve things in different ways, and ignoring traits and runes, sigils is silly, as it is a fundamental part of build, as are weapons and utility skills, as WELL as elite skills. That’s the thing you are omitting and using for your argument and it’s simply not right because you are looking at only one piece of the puzzle. Very narrow scope of things which you consider. Sure you can argue that certain piece of a puzzle is colour red, but the other 100 pieces of the puzzle are all blue. “Yeah but that one little piece is red.” See what I mean? This is why they (thieves and mesmers) are in the same boat as a Necro, in terms of stability. So your “Necros are ONLY” profession argument can’t possibly stand true, and it isn’t.
-This is presicely why I showed you the build with the boon duration, as it looks at the WHOLE picture, runes, sigils, traits, everything coming together. Looking at only the boon duration could be shrugged off as “lack luster” but in reality, it could be composed into something quite powerful.

they have Stealth & Shadowstepping and are pretty OP if they are good using those 2 Effects.

Thieves OP? Thieves stopped being a problem for me about… 8 months ago. They can stealth and teleport all they want. If you catch them and time your skills well (in other words, understand how a thief thinks), you can evaporate their health in no time.

The popping in & out was your idea. I do not think Necros (or Thieves) should have to do that. But, we both agree – Thieves do not need Stability like Necros do. And, while Thief DS is Guaranteed every 90s; Necros are NOT Guaranteed DS, we have to earn it in combat at an exceedingly slow rate.

Compare popping in and out every 90 seconds, and popping in and out every 10 seconds. There is a HUGE difference between the two, HUGE. Comparing it is silly.
-Managing Deathshroud is an art. If you master it, it won’t be a problem anymore and thus you will always have it available for stability, whenever you need it.

Noble.3647:

4) a) I did not say anything about daze – maybe you are confusing daze with stun, but they are VERY different and Stun is MUCH better as it disables/immobilizes.
b & c) etc etc.

No, you said “far fewer interrupts than anyone else”. Which is a flat out lie. Again, read my point again. You said we have far fewer interrupts, I gave you all the interrupts we have the potential of having. In my examples, I have used condi duration food and traits to show you to what EXTENT the skills could work, and just how POWERFUL they actually are. They are perfectly fine without any traits in them what-so-ever. Any person would realise I was not assuming in having 30 points in all trait lines, while at the same time having multiple sets of armor at the same time with different runes all applying at the same time… cuz really that’s just silly. Again, your fluff doesn’t help you.

5) Again, your logic baffles me. I say we don’t have Blocks or Evasion; you implicitly concur and mention blinds which are not the same (and the one you mention only lasts a second, I told you that) are not something that I brought up, but since you brought it up. Blinds block ONE attack. Blocks may block one attack, or may block ALL Attacks for 3 seconds or so. And did I mention that Mesmers & Eles both have Blocks/Evasion?? Necros do not.

No, you said we have no blocks, which is true. I then said we do have blinds instead to JUSTIFY our lack of blocks (although Well of power could turn burning into aegis, as an aside). Blinds are basically like blocks, but a bit more offensive and can be used to help an ally. Yes, it can help an ally. Erm… a 20 second blind blocks far more than any block in the game would ever hope to block, unless you are being trashed by a zerg of 100 people and use engi/warrior block/guard heal skill, which is really situational, in terms of the amount of blocks you do manage to block. As for your last statement in the paragraph… Mesmers and eles have no health pool. Their evades MUST be there to make up for a much lower health pool. Period. It’s called balance.

Noble.3647:

7) We can’t use runes of vigor – we have boon runes, remember?

There is no such thing as “rune of energy”, that was my mis-spelling. My apologies. I meant SIGIL of energy. So…. I throw out this unknown “rune of energy” out there, and you don’t even go research what it does? Really.

8) My point is Necros are forced to rely too heavily upon ranged weapons (we are the ONLY PROFESSION with but a Single Melee weapon & it only attacks one foe with its #1 & #2 attacks), as it painfully obvious when fighting a thief or mesmer who goes invisible & causes you to lose target. If we used Dark Pact or actually had Stuns melee weapons would be more effective. Also, close–range aoe is useful when you have someone (or a pet) rezing someone else, so that you can hit BOTH & not have to target just one.

How does that make any difference in the world? Seriously. Attacking from range is in most cases better than doing it from melee. I personally hate using melee weapons, but that’s just me. We’ve likely got more AoE than any other profession (except MAYBE staff ele) out there and you want MORE AoE? If you read about the crowd control/interrupts I mentioned earlier, you can use many of those to fear the target who is ressing… or alternatively, drop AoE to damage both the resser and the downed person. So, the downed person will lose health, as will the person ressing. Two birds with one stone. Problem solved. With that much AoE at your disposal… a stealthed person shouldn’t be a problem. They are actually quite predictable in their movements, especially thieves. A single mark can tell you where they are.

Noble.3647:

1) Again you baffle me with your want to use traits to do something that EVERY OTHER Profession gets WITHOUT TRAITING. You completely fail to comprehend that Forcing Necros to rely upon Traits to get/accomplish what EVERY OTHER Profession gets WITHOUT TRAITING. Get a decent amount of DS in a PvP Duel without traiting for it – that might impress me.

Every other profession? False argument full of fluff. Maybe you should reroll to that “every other profession”. I don’t follow many “necro pros” but one that I see post sometimes is Rennoko, who does NOT use stun breaks. Now let that settle in. If you want your stability THAT badly, by all means, go and trait in for it. A good necro can do without. And I repeat, a GOOD Necro. Just as an FYI, elementalists also heavily trait into their class mechanic, as do beast master rangers, engi, etc etc. Necro is no different. If you want the full potential, you must learn how to use it, first and foremost, then trait for it if you feel a lack. It’s simple logic. I would gladly duel you, as I’m surprised in all your hours of playing you have yet to learn the basics, or at least you make it sound that way….

2) What are you doing here? Are you pursuing someone using those? These Teleports are not practical for covering ground quickly, not like Blink, Lightning Flash, etc. where you INSTANTLY go to the Targeted point. Also, you have to have enough DS to use it. Spectral Walk is just a speedboost you can teleport w/ Recall, but only Backward – which does not help you progress. Flesh Wurm can be used to escape, but only if you have it set up somewhere & it is still alive when you need it. NOT ONE of those is useful in moving quickly across the map.

Let me quote what you said earlier “fleeing or giving chas”.
Your examples of covering ground quickly were with respect to chasing or fleeing from an enemy. We don’t have many leaps or point+click teleports, which are sometimes used to catch up to your opponent. You stop here, dust off your hands and say you’re right. Stopping here, though, is silly, as it leave off the impression that we can’t catch our prey and can’t escape. We’ve got a VAST array of slows and interrupts which we can use to catch up to the enemy. For example, dagger #3, Axe #3, Staff #3, Scepter #2, Corrupt Boon (if you corrupt their swiftness, for example), etc. These slow the target, allowing you to come closer. Then, you use Dark Path. You teleport the target and FURTHER slow them with a chill. Can even fear them backwards. So yes, we don’t have leaps, point+click teleports, but that does not mean we can’t chase down an opponent. SW and Wurm are leaning towards fleeing/juking. So we do have a means to escape as well. You tried to use your argument to make it seem like we can’t catch up to an enemy and can’t escape. Obviously this isn’t true. On a side note, quote wiki all you want to add fluff to your arguments. (Fluff definitions: “make (something) appear fuller and softer by shaking or brushing it” and “entertainment or writing perceived as trivial or superficial”)…. A fluffy coat doesn’t make it right.

Ok, seriously. The point is…. a thief can’t do kitten with stability. Why? Because they are a thief and won’t get hit anyway! Why? Because they are a thief and won’t get hit anyway. Now everyone together. “Why? Because —-”
—So even if they do choose to cancel a whole elite skill in hopes of getting that 8 sec of stability which they won’t even utilize, their access (or lack of access, rather) to stability is completely irrelevant because they do not even need it. Period.

“Um, no. Thieves NEVER just “Stand around” & “take hits” (if they can help it) – that is why you go invisible & escape &/or backstab &/or Heal, etc. Because that is what Thieves do.”
—My question was rhetorical.

“yet you want a Necro to WASTE 30 points in a Trait line & WASTE their Runes/Food to get about half that much stability. Wow. So ironic.”
-The problem with your statement is this. To gain any usefulness out of that Dagger Storm stability, you have to cancel the elite skill itself so you can perform your other functions, which is what we referring to here (To be clear, I think the stability WHILE spinning is great. Just to put that out there). This means canceling your WHOLE elite skill so you can keep stability. When you use Plague, you DO NOT waste your elite skill because you use it for its full potential. For 20 seconds, you are immune to CC (if it isn’t removed, etc), you BLIND people around you, and you are incredibly tanky. So, again to summarize. Enter Dagger Storm, a thief elite skill. Dodge out of it, keep stability. Whole elite skill wasted. You stealth away because you are low, stability runs out, you had no use out of it. On the OTHER hand, as a Necro, you pop Plague, and for 20 seconds you are tanking heaven and hell. There is a big, big, BIG difference between the two scenarios. One is a waste, the other is not. It is true that you cannot use your other skills while in plague form, which doesn’t really matter because you probably won’t die any time soon as Plague.

—If you are in a power build, and even certain condi builds, 30 points in Soul Reaping is actually quite nice. Not only does it make you a lot more tankier, it provides high critical hit damage, and, as we mentioned earlier, stability. Now… if you do go with the runes, and 20 points in death magic, 10 in Spite and 10 in Curses, for example, you’ll have that boon duration. Two sigils of battle will give you 3 stacks of might, each, for 33 seconds. In other words, you’ll maintain 9 might stacks throughout the fight. Now, 10 points in Spite can grant you Reaper’s Might (25 seconds of might per Life Blast). Now, if you grab Bowl of Orrian Truffle and Meat Stew (40% endurance refill and 1 might for 8 seconds per dodge, with boon duration), you’ll maintain around… 15 might stacks for the entire fight, while ALSO having extra endurance regen. You can choose to grab Blood is Power for an extra 20 seconds of 10 stacks of might. So, 25 might stacks. On top of that, you’ve got Stability for 5 seconds when entering death shroud. Now, which part of 30 Soul Reaping points and the Boon duration runes is a waste?

Dear friend, you are very misinformed.
1) If you are a good Necro, managing your death shroud isn’t a huge issue anymore. Grab Soul Marks.
2) Dark Path, Spectral Walk, Flesh Wurm
3) Not true.
4) Are you serious….?
-Warhorn 4 (Strengthened with Banshee’s Wail for 3 second AoE daze and Rune of Mesmer to make a 4 second AoE daze). Please, before replying in more caps, let that settle in. Breathe in. Breathe out. A 4 second AoE daze, if you desired it.
-Staff 5 (can add up to a 2 second AoE FEAR – can deal damage). Now, breathe in, let that settle in. Two seconds of enemies running AWAY from you with the potential of losing 1.2k per SECOND. Area of Effect.
-Doom (Single target fear, can go up to 2 seconds – can deal damage)
-Spectral wall —AoE fear, can go up to 2 seconds – can deal damage. Let that settle in as well. A line which causes people to run away from it for two seconds and deals 1.2k dmg per second, if traited. Spectral grasp, corrupt boon (can cause fear – can deal damage), well of corruption (can cause fear – can deal damage), Flesh Golem (knockback/knockdown)), Chilling Wind (pushback from Lich), Reaper’s Protection (trait that causes up to 4 seconds fear around you, when CCed.. long cooldown tho.), Fear of Death (trait that causes up to 2 seconds of fear when you are downed).
5) We do have blinds. AoE Blinds. Particularly that notorious 20 sec blind? Plague? Yeah, that one.
6) You are concerned abour survival, I assume. Spectral Armor (6 seconds, or 9 seconds, traited) + Deathshroud = VERY similar capability to an Endure Pain.
7) No vigor is tricky, although well of power could give you a century long vigor by constantly converting bleed spam into Vigor. Also, runes of Energy solve this problem without ever needing Vigor.
8) We don’t need to get close to cause AoE, we can do it all from range. However, I’m sure you are referring to power weapons, which don’t have cleave.
9) We don’t need it. It would be flat out OP.
10) I disagree. Minions are not bad if you aren’t WvWing.
Now… for the juicy parts:

OK, ok.. so after reading what you wrote… I realize you don’t play a Necromancer and likely have no comprehension of what was written.

P.S. TRY TO USE LESS CAPS! It makes it seem like YOU are YELLING!

Dalanor.5387:

Since its not working for months now, no its not utility.

Oh boo hoo.

spoj.9672:

Comparing wvw and pve is not really valid. In a pve setting necro has very limited group utility. The stuff it has is situational, sub par and plagued by long cooldowns and cast times. And epidemic doesnt solve pve seeing as conditions are so bad in pve.

Giving everyone antitoxin spray is not a good comparison to giving everyone stability. Why? Because antitoxin is a pretty bad heal skill, overall. How do I know? I’ve only seen like… 3 people use it in WvW, and those people were torn to pieces while spinning around in their pretty little healing animation. It’s a good heal skill for the Tower of Nightmares tho.

how you purge your conditions while [on land &] in Death Shroud – because I have not figured that one out yet, because it seems to me that Necros are the ONLY PROFESSION that Cannot Access HEALS or SKILLS & their Professional Mechanic [Death Shroud]. Which, I believe would make Death Shroud more of a Death TRAP than anything.

I agree with you on this one. Conditions are a problem while in DS, especially if rooted. Having foot in the grave helps because you can pop out and heal, or transfer, then dodge away. Other than that… it really depends on the situation.
-Calling it a death trap is not right though xD

Noble.3647:

@MethaneGas
Practical Stability = Beneficial Stability = Stability that allows you to use HEALS & SKILLS while maintaining Stability.
Also, Practical Stability would NOT Include HAVING to TRAIT for it – especially when that Trait is a Grandmaster Trait like FitG.
Practical Stability would also NOT include having to equip boon runes (or trait for boons) just to make the stability last a reasonably amount of time (meaning a time comparable to the stability of other professions).

Ehh… that’s only your definition. Point still stands, thief doesn’t have good “practical stability” by your definition.
-You asked for stability, I showed how you could get 5 seconds of it every 10 (or 7, traited) seconds. Yes. Five seconds of stability every 7 seconds. Hello? That’s kind of a lot? You can heal by popping in and out of Deathshroud. Pop in, pop out. 5 seconds of stability. Safely heal away… walk for 2 seconds. Oh look, DS is already recharged. I was only susceptible to CC for 2 seconds, kinda nice if you ask me.

Noble.3647:

On Thieves canceling DS – you have 8 seconds of stability, plenty of stealth, shadowstepping & Healing, so you are far from dead. Infact, with skill and that stability you could be a killing machine. If not, ask Nagato how to improve your play style, he seems to have suggestions.

As I said earlier… let’s be honest. You expect a thief to stand around with stability, ready to take hits? No. Sure, they could waste their WHOLE elite skill for a simple 8 seconds of stability, which they will waste because they will stealth around or dodge anyway. A good thief is a “killing machine” not because of “8 secs of stability” but cuz of… well.. they do what thieves do. I don’t think I’ve ever, ever seen a thief pop Dagger Storm and quickly out of it just for that 8 secs of stability.

Noble.3647:

Once again the 2 Necro Elites that offer stability do NOT OFFER PRACTICAL STABILITY (see definition above). Not sure what you mean by them having 3 times the stability either. You don’t get constant blinding – its once a second with Plague, and ONLY if you use the blinding skill – and thieves & warriors & mesmers & more can attack SEVERAL times a second so only the initial attack will be blinded the others will not be blinded. I don’t think plague chills, and even if it did – I don’t think Thief [weapon] attacks are really affected by chills THOUGH THEY SHOULD BE.
Again, you are ASSUMING that ALL Necros put 30 points in Soul Reaping just to get FitG. That is an illogical assumption & above all does not meet with the requisites of PRACTICAL Stability (see above).

Those sources of stability are sure as hell better than a waste elite skill for 8 seconds.
-What I meant is this. You get 20 seconds of stability with Plague vs. 8 seconds with Dagger Storm. Plague’s cooldown is TWICE as long as Dagger Storm but it provides stability which is almost 3 times longer.
-Yes it’s once per second but that’s basically the only useful skill on Plague form. I don’t think I’ve ever used anything else. You can also dodge in Plague form, which is enough to dodge any of the flurry-type attacks. You can put 10 points in Curses (Chilling Darkness). Blinds cause Chills. Plague causes blinds. Chill slows attacks, like flurry attacks, for example. Combined with slow attack speed and your dodge while in Plague form, you shouldn’t take much damage (if all enemies are melee. If they aren’t, just chase the ranged person and the melee will follow).

Just putting this out there. If you are so worried about stability, why not grab 20 points in Death Magic, 2x Traveler Runes, 2x Monk, 2x Water —> 65% boon duration.
—Foot in the Grave is 3 sec stability, with boon duration you get 5 seconds every time you enter DS. Voila.

On a second note, to add to Drarnor Kunoram.
—So thieves get 8 seconds of stability while unable to do much. If they do cancel it, they just canceled their whole elite skill (by that time they are low on health anyway but keep the stability). Nice? Eh…. with the stability, they will have time to heal, stealth away and likely not much more.
-You said it goes on a 90 second cooldown. So 8 secs of stability every 90 seconds. Ok. —Necros get 20 seconds of stability every 180 secs. So basically… almost 3x stability for a 2x longer CD. But wait, that’s not all. Buy 1 and get 1 free. Just kidding. The 20 seconds of stability are accompanied by constant blinds and possibly chills, not to mention massive amount of toughness and HP. True, you can’t cancel it and keep the stability, but you could grab foot in the grave. So on top of Plague, you have 3 seconds (or 5 seconds, if you went with boon duration) every time you enter DS. More access than thief? Possibly. And I say possibly because you could steal stability off of someone, but that’s situational. And even if they did manage to steal it off of someone, you really think a thief will stand there to take a hit with his “stability”? No.

And just to comment on your original post… Antitoxin Spray is a pretty horrid skill. Comparing it to Consume Conditions is worse than comparing Blood Fiend to Healing Signet.

nekretaal.6485:

Necromancer plays like a second rate engineer or second rate elementalist with more survivability, but no/little team utility. And the survivability is kind of a mirage. With no healing in shroud and bad access to boons like stability, protection, and regeneration, and no vigor or invulnerabilities, you can survive a bad play with your death shroud, but can’t heal up or escape either so the end effect is that you die anyways.

Properly played by skilled players, the necromancer may be the least survivable class in the game.

Very opinionated and yet very wrong. What Valheru Baal said about Necros is true. I can’t believe someone would say “no team utility”. Staff, anyone? Warhorn? Scepter? Dagger off-hand? Axe? All of those provide a nice sprinkle of utility, ESPECIALLY the staff. Fearing people off of team mates, chilling chasers and soon, transferring condis form ally to enemy is no team utility? Please. AoE blind (chill, if traited) through Plague for 20 seconds. The list goes on and on and on.

And about your last point. A properly played, skilled Necro doesn’t go down. Maybe you haven’t met any good Necros, or you met those that go into 100% offense and can melt you in 1 second but get melted just as fast when focused. Just a few days ago I fought a Necro that tanked about 7 people for around 30 seconds.

It’s weird how people say horrid things about Necros and yet, they are one of the most feared classes.

This is from a WvW point of view though. PvE is a different story described by one word: Epidemic

Healing shouts, warhorn, done.
I play a support condi warrior… I prefer it over any other kind of support out there

Tommyknocker.6089:

TBH there are only two ways in which to “fix” the necro at this point.

1) Give us a reliable disengage. No I’m not talking a worm that allows your opponents to catch you with in 2 seconds because they have the ability to actually move faster than a snail on Prozac.

The dumbfire/fear combo is our only viable build and considered dangerous with a high condi. However for a class that is suppose to be versatile it doesn’t make the case by being pigeon holed and again falls short.

You can’t really fix something that isn’t broken. Things may need tweaking (and I’m only saying this so hellish comments aren’t rained down on me). I, personally, think Necros are where they should be, more of less.

1) I’m not sure if you’ve used wurm or not. It’s an excellent disengage, if you know how to use it. You have a million uses for this skill which I won’t go into because it would turn into a massive wall of txt. As for the speed thing… if you take nothing to give you speed, what can you expect? You’ll get caught.

Saying that burn+terror is the only viable build couldn’t be farther from truth. Again, would turn into a wall of text.

As for suggestions, just to throw this out there. Dagger #2 functioning similarly to Life Transfer (AoE damage + life steal), anyone?

Edit: Also : Mindx, I agree completely.

Probably a glass longbow ranger :P

What a pre-reset …. or… preset…
Had some really fun encounters… turns out double/triple Epidemic is kinda nice.

Hope to see you bad boys (SF and HoD) soon.

It was fun times [VLK], fun times indeed
I hope your bodies are ready, cuz ours sure are. Too bad it’s Friday

Cheers, SOHai is ready

Jrunyon.3012:

Never before have I seen a group of people so mad. 5v1 such brave. very skill.

Stay classy SF

I find staff Ele to be quite good the way it is now (WvW-wise), especially in group play. I think it’s got incredible potential but requires a bit of brain and good key-binds so you can quickly lay down your spells. It’s all about the combos. You’ve seriously got a kitten-ton of combos you can do o.O. That’s what makes the weapon hard/fun to use, in my opinion. Reminds me a lot of staff Necro :P

Theftwind.8976:

“Get off this server you noob, you cannot play worth kitten. Go somewhere else and play. Leave this server for the real players.”

You cannot see a problem with that?

The only ones I’d want off the server is people who would react like that. Why would someone complain about a newbie? O.o I’d be glad to have more people. And for those that aren’t experienced, you can easily teach.

[SoS] Kain Commander (I think that was the tag)… you hurt me so. You were a tough cookie. We were looking for you… but alas, it seems time got the best of us. Next time <3

It has been a fun day

@ Junkhaus.4301,
You had a nice try, I gotta give you that.

Happy hunting

p.s. -high fives SHAKA ZULU-

Mooncow.6847:

Lol

Well aren’t you a cheeky one? Glad you are having a good laugh too

Pentzski.4620:

Yay [OHai]! You tell ’em! I miss seeing you guys ;_;

Hehe, support from Mr. Gwyndor himself
We hope you are kicking butt up there as you did down here

You go TakeCare!!!

Oh god… please. I’m not sure whether I should roll my eyes, face palm or whether we should feel complimented. If 2 people felt like 3 to you, thank you. You know what fraps is? No? It’s a recording software.

Seems like someone is bumhurt that they can’t 5-6 vs 2. Nice try, maybe next time

p.s.. laughing after killing someone with a zerg will get your killed
p.p.s. not even the treb+balistas+the camp guards + 5 people will be enough. Didn’t you learn? You need a zerg.

B-but I’m not a thief!