Guild Wars 2

Okay so I wasn’t going to reply to Lily. Was hoping someone else would explain the big differences between WvW and PvE. The main thing being: you don’t really need to be mobile in PvE.

-As I keep stating, for the 3rd time now, people simply don’t target wurm in WvW. It just doesn’t happen. That’s an over-exaggeration, but it’s basically the truth. I wouldn’t say it otherwise. Unplug those ears already. Trust me, I remember when someone actively goes for my wurm, and I remember who it is so I know for next time. Simple thing to do. If you still think wurm gets all the ladies, please count how many times they attacked it in my vids (males and females ). How many times they even pay attention to it. And let’s say the stars somehow align and you DO face more than one person. One or two of them decide to go all wacko and attack your wurm, which is likely at a distance greater than 1200 units (or around that). It’s a nice stroll, waste of time.
-On top of that, you’ve got less people to deal with now. I’ll be fair and say that there WERE instances where the minion died without me knowing and I died as a result, but it happenes so rarely it’s basically the same as if your Blink glitches and doesn’t teleport you (mesmers likely know of this glitch). And I’m referring to it dying, not glitching.

-I don’t think you have tried using wurm for long, or at all, SolemnMalevolence. I think a lot of your concerns are hypothetical.
1) Only way it would be killed by stray AoE is if you place it into the battlefield. This is counter intuitive, don’t you think?
2) As I have said before, when you use it at first, NPCs will kill it, yes. But as any intelligent human being, you will quickly (and painfully) learn the “hot spots” of aggressive NPCs. In other words, after a while NPCs will NOT kill your wurm. They simply won’t because you won’t put them around dangerous NPCs.
3) The only reason someone would wait near your wurm was if it was in clear cut area, like an entrance to a keep, or if the person knew what wurm does and they knew you were near. The other explanation is that they are managing their inventory or texting their lover, in which case they won’t be paying much attention. In the scenario that you do port back and find yourself in a mess… well… You better think on your feet.

As for Spectral walk, once again:
-I said earlier how you an get rid of immobilizes while spectral walking. I wouldn’t like to write it again. Spectral walk allows you to TANK people in a decent fashion, ESPECIALLY if you use it in conjunction with Life Transfer, Locust Swarm and Shackles. Most of the time when I’m spectral walking away I’m in DS. Agreed, 8 seconds is not the best, although it’s not extremely bad either. However, with the 12-second SW, I couldn’t disagree more. In the 12 second time frame, you can run farther than 2x Blinks (traited), and likely more.

One last thing that I touched on earlier. You said people go for the wurm in sPvP. I’m assuming it’s one enemy going for your cap point. What are you doing while they are wasting precious time off-point, attacking a minion? You are dropping everything you got. If they leave it alone, its damage is quite decent, actually, especially if the fight goes on for a while. In sPvP, the area is quite small so it will be in range.

This is my last contribution for a while, as I feel like I’m either not explaining it well or it just goes into one ear and out the other. I’m planning on making a tutorial-like vid of all this within a few weeks. Then hopefully you will see it’s true potential.

After some thought:
—You are not a slave to enemy CC. I realized that you are referring to stun warriors that are mobile. This requires a greatsword, which gives them the mobility. But there’s the problem for the warrior – they lose much of stun potential by dropping hammer. They may catch you, but will only be able to use shield stun, which you can dodge with little effort. Bull’s charge is there as well, but that removes one of their utilities. If you cannot dodge it, you can pop DS for stability. Mace F1 likely won’t be usable because they simply won’t have the adrenaline unless they waste Berserk Stance. If they do, they are prone to slows and CC, and if they did use it, you can expect a stun. Again, DS stability. Which brings me to the another point
— Ledges are your friend with wurm and Spectral Walk. Narrow points are your friend with Wall. When you see a ledge, place a wurm (it works in same spots as Blink or lightning flash). A chasing warrior simply doesn’t have a teleport to follow you. Further, look for ledges where you can jump off of while using Spectral walk, especially into water. Make sure SW is in the same slot and under water, and use it before jumping in. They will follow, as they always do, and you will tank while beneath the waves. When you pop SW again, you will be far from trouble on a ledge. Unless I wasn’t paying attention or was ganked, I honestly can’t remember the last time I was legitimately locked down and killed by a group with the setup I have, and I have 0 sources of stability. But again, that’s with that setup/mindset/practice.

Moon.6371:

Please compare a necro maxed out on escape, using wurm, walk and wall to the traited 6s cd teleport of a mesmer that makes you lose target if applied correctly or the unstoppable speedracer a warrior is at the moment. Now tell me again with an honest face that there is not a problem for necro roamers compared to other classes and their max escape options.

It is problematic, especially when you compare them to the hyper mobile classes (i find the main culprits to be warriors). Mesmers, who have those teleports also have access to stealth. They don’t have access to as many slows and chills. Frequently, it’s not the wurm or spectral walk that save me by themselves (although often they are enough), it’s a combination of everything. Dropping chills and cripples quickly before porting back can be key. Alternatively, I often (always) flip the camera backwards to cast my slows. Without that, chances of escaping lower by a lot. But to come back to your point. It’s true that Necro doesn’t come close tho that kind of mobility, but I’d argue that it isn’t necessary.

Moon.6371:

Please post a video where you fight a good stun warrior with melandru, lemongrass, anti cc traits and berserker stance and win or escape with the build you used in your latest vid. In my roaming experience, cc cannot be applied long enough to warrant calling it “offensive defense”. This is true for non-condi builds even more.

I’m on it just need to make free time and get some footage. I will take you up on this

Moon.6371:

Another issue is the upcoming immobilize trend, since a few weeks encountering a 1vX situation usually means root-root-entangle-stun-daze and die.

Yes, I wasn’t happy at the beginning of the update. It’s especially ridiculous in large groups when they do manage to lock you down. But that’s also problematic for most others as well, not just necros. If you do go full out on the mobility, I find wurm to be the most effective in these situations. I usually use it as I’m being locked down. It ports to a place where they won’t find too quickly. Or you could use SW, then wurm away. They will chase. You force them to extend, then you use SW again, which will port you back to the very first spot where you were locked down, if that makes sense. If wurm is not up, condi transfer is in order. Of course, this isn’t easy when you’ve got people on you but Foot in the Grave helps. As a last resort you’ve got plague, which will buy some time for one of the escapes (mainly SW in this case) to recharge.

Moon.6371:

No offense, I just wanted to point out, that your pov might not tell the whole story and is not taking the current meta into consideration sufficiently (at least the meta I experience here on EU).

Best regards

No problem. I knew I was poking a wound. I’m sorry for the wall of text, but there’s simply too much to say, even now xD. I will make a new “escape vid” within the next two weeks or so. And I do realize that not many people don’t use a similar build I’m describing.

@ Moon,

First of all, thank you

I heard about a similar meta from other people from higher tier servers as well. I play in the very bottom server of NA (Devona’s Rest). The vids are a bit old, before any current meta (hence why there’s no burn/terror Necros, perplex Mesmers, condi theves or stun warriors). I agree I need more current examples. I shall make a vid showing the current stuff soon. I DO have a recent video from the current "meta’ but no stun warriors.

Moon.6371:

First, the necro heavily relies on cc conditions to make escaping an option. This is hardcountered by lemongrass poultry the moment you are not running a 30-x build or condition build that is suited for +40% condi food. .

That’s true. But I do use +40% condi food, which compensates for their lemongrass. Without +40% condi food, damage output is basically non-existent.
— We don’t see many stun warriors down here, but the good ones that I did see, it wasn’t easy. For the most part, they couldn’t kill me (except one [Yarr] warrior), as I could juke them. IF I switched things around -for example, going 30 into SR – and grabbing signet of spite for initial burst which baits Berserk Stance – they panic. They lack any other real cleanse, so they will slowly drop. If they are glassy, at least 1/3 of their health will go down from that single skill. It’s up to kiting until zerk stance wears off. Then it’s time to strike. (I wouldn’t bring wall in a duel against them). This is in a duel setting, however.

Moon.6371:

Secondly, the opposing roaming classes have either stabilty or very frequent access to teleports which render spectral wall in the current meta not very efficient. They will blink through it or just pop stability.

This is… sort of true. I don’t find teleports through to be AS problematic because I tend to stick around the wall. If they teleport through, I go to the other side. Unless I’m on the run. The only teleports that can go over are things link Blink or Lightning Flash, but who’s to say they didn’t use those prior to the chase? A warrior can walk through it with both berserk stance and balanced stance (if they choose to bring one, or both), which is tricky. I try to test the waters with warriors before committing to a fight. I drop a fear and see if the stability trait will proc. If not, I try going on the offensive, forcing them to use berserk stance out of panic. Then it’s up to kiting. Finally i can drop the wall. It may sound pretty on paper but it rarely is as neat out there in the jungle :P especially with more than one person attacking and counter CC. But, I rarely find people able to really cross the wall down, personally. I always flip the camera to watch how people react to the wall. If certain people getting through I try dropping Chilblains or Staff #5. Unless it’s a warrior with Berserk Stance, in which case… panic, a little. But not really. I likely still have a) SW, b) Wurm, c) Plague, d) Dark Path, all of which can be utilized in some kind of escape. Combine that with stability and you won’t go down easy or won’t go down at all.

SolemnMalevolence.5248:

to me it’s more along the lines of something using dagger/x and axe/x. The life force generation from the dagger auto attack and axe 2 is a lot better than anything a staff and scepter could manage, especially when you factor in gluttony, which I’m unsure stacks with soul marks or not.

Soul Marks do scale off of Gluttony, hence why I put 3.3% as opposed to 3.0%.
I tested it 2 mins ago, had to be sure :P. One mark gave kitten (it writes kitten when I put four hundred and fifty five, as a number. What the?) life life force. I had 13768 max. Math leads to 3.3%.
I dunno, when I take soul marks I have little Death Shroud management problems, personally. Although warhorn could factor into this as well, since I use it.

@Poplolita, yeah you can’t really stop someone from getting away with the wall :/

Yes, Necros are not the best at mobility, no use saying otherwise, but they have a HUGE amount of health, LOTS of slows (which can potentially mitigate damage), nice access to weakness, AoE roots, some protection, blinds, transfers, crowd control, and Death Shroud. So whereas they cannot move AS much as a warrior or elementalist for example, they compensate in other ways (warriors are a lil too mobile imo). Combine that with the Necro mobility methods described earlier and you’ve got something decent. It just requires quite a bit of work and “offensive defense”, I guess.

Lily.1935:

just because you have escaped form a situation using the necromancer’s teleport skills doesn’t make them good. I’ve escaped using dark path before and I do it quite frequently. But that is because I have no other real option to do that. I’ve successfully escaped more often with the engineer’s acid bomb, the guardian’s Line of Warding, or the mesmer’s blink. And my necro has a good 500 hours

I think a good chunk of us are in agreement though, that the necromancer’s defenses are seriously lacking in a tone of areas and this nerf done to us a while back has only made it worse.

I honestly don’t know why would go and say that after all I’ve said. I even posted 2 videos: one showing that mobility is possible and the other showing that escapes and that combat with that setup is possible. Dark Path is NOT your only means to escape. Should I bother?
-Spectral wall > Line of Warding. SW is a utility, true, but it is much, much more powerful on many levels.
—For example: Multiple target protection source, source of Chaos Armor (if you take a staff. Takes practice, but imo it’s more powerful than blasting Chilblains, which would only cause weakness), it FEARS enemies AWAY from the line, as opposed to a simple knock down (length of their running increases with increased fear/condi duration), it generates life force, can last up to 7.5 seconds, and can even do damage to multiple targets through fear.
-Blink is similar to Wurm
-Acid Bomb is similar to wurm
-Spectral walk is in a WAY similar to the above two mobility skills, as discussed on the last page. Additionally, it can be used to drop off cliffs. No one else has this ability.

All have ups and downs. But Dark Path is NOT your only escape/survival mechanism. Do you WvW? Or PvP? I’m guessing you do because mobility is not a HUGE issue in PvE, generally. If you are so distressed about surviving other players, kindly refer to the above skills. Pick a few, despite being skeptical. Try them for a bit. Give it a bit of time to sink in, then, and only then can we have a proper conversation.

What game mechanic? Eating a bit of damage when deathshroud gets depleted? Please. This is far from “whole game mechanic” or “key feature”. Sure, it can absorb a potentially deadly attack but the real problem, imo, is the 1-second skill lockdown when your DS gets depleted. That honestly kills more than the absorb of damage. If you over-relied on DS absorb, sure, it affected you. But if you didn’t bother with it you likely didn’t notice any difference.
-Hell, they buffed spectrals so they can heal DS while in DS. At first when they buffed spectrals, it was OP. Or at least very, very strong ( I personally really liked it and think it should have been left that way). After a while, it was toned down. This is why they are taking it slow… DS has a large potential to be overpowered.

I agree that a bit more life force generation is needed for sustain, but as with any class, you can’t expect to live through heaven and hell if you don’t go at least a BIT into defense.

@SolemnMalevolence, “death shroud manageable with only one build”.. and what build is that exactly. 20 points in Soul Reaping for Soul Marks (if you use a staff) doesn’t define a build, imo, and it’s enough to generate a decent amount of life force. Dropping each mark + 1 auto attack = 4.4% + 13.2% = 17.6% life force. Switch to other weapons set, which for most condi users will be scepter, and you have another condition.
—-So: Bleed, weakness, cripple, poison, chill and possibly burning for Dhumfire people or confusion for Corrupt Boon people. Let’s keep it realistic and say it’s basically 5 conditions.
—Feast of Corruption = 3.3% LF per condition. 3.3% * 5 =17% life force.

So in one small rotation you generated 17 + 17.6 = 34% of your life force. Keep in mind I did NOT include confusion, torment OR burning. That would add to about 44% of your life force. Not bad if you ask me … although after making a miscalculation that equated to 80% of life force, 34% (or 44% with additional condis) does seem a tad bit… disappointing, although not bad because it can be repeated fairly frequently throughout the fight. After the calculations it does seem like a bit more life force generation may be indeed required.

Edit: Thanks Drarnor Kunoram

@ Drarnor Kunoram, very interesting… I never thought about that o.o I wish staff auto attack had a higher than 20% chance to be a projectile finisher… Staff auto attack through wall would be so excellent :P ( i know you were referring to fiend’s projectiles tho)
@ Poplolita, I agree with you.

@Andele
a) How long is the confusion from a converted boon? 5 seconds? and 5 stacks? with 70% condi duration, that becomes more like 9 seconds. I’d say that’s pretty deadly. But I do agree that access to confusion isn’t the best by a mile, when compared to a Mesmer, for example. Nevertheless, it is there, and it can hurt.
b) Proven? If anything was proven, it was proven that you are wrong. Why? Well.. scroll up, read the last few comments and you will see. Unless you can prove otherwise in the same manner.
c ) First it was said that they outshine Necros, and now it is said that they are bad condi classes? They can have access to a nice amount of condis (for example going against a venom share thief, 1 v 1), but not as much as a Necro AoE- wise. And who says Necros have problems keeping up condis without cheese builds? In a team setting, where the other team throws around cleanses left and right, maybe, but in normal situations, a non-cheese build will still keep up nice pressure. I don’t run Dhumfire or Terror but do bring Corrupt Boon when I need to keep condi pressure on a target, in a group setting. When I do, condi pressure is more than enough to melt a boon-heavy target without Terror OR burning. As for Engis, I have no clue

I’m not sure if you’ve read anything I have said earlier. If you haven’t, please do. Thank you.

Since we are talking about AoE:
-Warrior cleave same as epidemic? What the? Really? …. For those that don’t know, Flurry attacks targets infront of you in a cone 130 range. Epidemic has a radius of 600. Epidemic is 3 times larger. Three. times. larger than Flurry, doesn’t require adrenaline and it isn’t infront of you, it’s everywhere around your target. And another thing. You will likely use a bow for condi warrior, which means you will use Combustive Shot (bow adrenaline skill) for AoE burns, in which case your bleeds drop significantly, unless you generate more adrenaline for Flurry, which takes time.
- I still fail to see how thieves come even close to what a Necro can do when you’ve got about 5 enemies. Necros have got AoE Torment as well. If you took Runes of Tormenting, that’s 2 stacks of torment. Mix in Tainted Shackles and Sigil of Tormenting and that’s 12 stacks of torment to targets around your initial target. On top of EVERYTHING else. How? (Tainted Shackles is 3 stacks, rune is 2 stacks, sigil is one stack. All are AoE. All enemies will have 6 stacks. Epidemic, another 6 stacks to surrounding enemies. 12 stacks. But wait.. I thought condis are our secondary function)
- Does TA overseer use many, quick, consecutive attacks? If so, that likely explains it. If not, well.. that’s one good mesmer then, eh? Perplexity Runes are likely the culprit.

What the? Guardians weaker supports? They are one of the best supports in WvW, hands down. Mesmer support, ele support and ranger supports are in no way better than a guardian (in WvW). I won’t list the differences, as that would be yet another wall of text and I’m hungry.

@ SolemnMalevolence Hmm, yeah you’re probably right, applying condis to a single target is a different story, as you don’t have Epidemic.

@Andele, you may be right when it comes to a small amount of targets. I agree. My warrior can stack a nice amount of stacks really quickly but to a very few targets, for example. When considering AoE, Necros are the bad boy though. You can’t come close to that with a Warrior, or Mesmer, or even Ranger. Ranger is good for single targets, mainly (yeah you have the elite but I dunno). Condi thief is quite good at AoE bleeds as well but doesn’t have AS much access to other condis as a Necro, and doesn’t have as much AoE.

So I guess it comes down to AoE vs. Small scale / single target. Saying we are a secondary class when it comes to condi is like saying Guardians can’t support their team. It’s absurd.

When you see a group of enemies in PvE and you’ve got Epidemic, Signet of Spite and Blood is Power and you’ve got 30/30/0/10/0, for example:

With an eye on — Cast Enfeebling Blood when entering death shroud — trait and — Leave a Mark of Blood when you dodge — trait:
-Mark of Blood on a group (AoE 3 stacks bleed. 14 or so seconds)
-Chilblains (AoE 9 seconds of poison)
-Grasping Dead (AoE, 3 stacks bleed, 10+ seconds)
-Enfeebling Blood ( 2 stacks, 17 seconds, weakness)
-Signet of Spite (2 stacks, 17 seconds, poison 17 seconds)
-Blood is Power (2 stacks, 10 might + 2 stacks if you transfer)
-Dodge into the group for another Mark of Blood (this one is 2 stacks) from trait
-Enter Deathshroud as you dodge (2 stacks of bleed and weakness) from trait
- Dark Path (3 stacks, about 8 secs + chill)
- Tainted Shackles (AoE torment, 3 stacks)

So we have: about 21 stacks of bleed and more than 20 seconds of poison on an NPC (including other conditions), and a bit less on the surrounding enemies
- Epidemic —> 2x everything to everyone around the target. In other words… bleed cap. You can achieve a bleed cap with doing half of the above actions, as most attacks are AoE. Not to mention a few skills will be off cooldown by the time you use epidemic….

—A thief better at applying bleeds? How so? Maybe… but when considering epidemic, Necro can stack 20+ stacks to an area with ease.
-Thief better at applying poison? Signet of spite can be up to 17 seconds of poison (when taking both +40% condi duration food and +30% condi duration from traits), mixed in with about 9 secs of poison from Chilblains, then epidemic… more than enough AoE poison for the whole family, not to mention all the other condis like weakness, Vulnerability, Cripple, chill, etc, when you Epidemic

-A warrior isn’t better at applying bleeds than a Necro. Not by a mile. Maybe to a single target when you use Pin Down + Flurry and some other things, but that’s very single targety. Both skills can affect more than one target, but in a very narrow range. I use a condi warrior, and can stack 20 stacks easily, but never as easily to a group of enemies as with a Necro. AoE Burning? Yes, that’s true. That’s a thing Warriors are better at.

—Mesmer? How so? Debilitating Dissipation (destroyed clones apply condis)? I still don’t think it comes even near Necro’s condi spread

—Shortbow ranger. Spike trap and Sharpening Stone? Ranger bleeds are really single targety

“As a side note…Necromancers deal more damage directly than they can with conditions, when built properly.”
How :o? Death shroud oriented stuff? Piercing Life Blast? Perhaps ^-^

“The Best” or “Masters of Conditions” might have been an overstatement but we are in no way overshadowed by other condi classes.

Haha @ Y Not xD
don’t touch my wurm >:*(

@SolemnMalevolence,
—In PvE, Necros are masters of condi… theres no one else that can stack 1000000 bleeds and epidemic on all those around. The only real problem is the condi cap, which sucks when there’s more than 2 heavy condi people in the team.
— In PvE you don’t really need mobility. I wouldn’t take wurm in a dungeon, for example. If you take Blood is Power, Signet of Spite and Epidemic in a dungeon, you will be godly. By godly, i mean thousands of damage per second.

Death Shroud is fine with it’s current concept xD

The thing is… Necro wurm:
1) deals damage (about 600-800 every few secs, i’m pretty sure, if within range)
2) Gives you life force when used, which is an indirect heal, as well as poison around you and a blast finisher (which personally, I find useless. I’ve used it as a blast.. never)
3) True that it isn’t really a gap closer, but you’ve got Dark Path. “Yeah but dark path is slow”. You have Staff #3, Scepter #2, Dagger #3, Focus #5, Axe #3, or certain utility skills, and your target will be slow enough for you to use Dark Path, (+Tainted Shackles, if you want) which again chills and slows (and Shackes root).

I rarely get thrown around too too much, because of the teleports and chills/fears. So i can’t imagine how people live without an escape mechanism. Lack of stability is tricky, that’s for sure – but it isn’t impossible :P

When you’re being focused hard, like from a zerg, the only enemy of using SW if being rooted or slowed. Why? Cuz you cant walk away from the spot where you used it, true. However, when you AREN’T rooted, slowed, etc., you can quite easily walk away from the situation, especially when there’s an enemy/neutral ahead of you which would allow you to use Dark Path. A good strategy when being locked down is… use SW then staff 4 to clear all the annoying stuff, if you have them up at the time. From that point dodge away, and use Shackles + life transfer. Shackles will root any people near you, then you can tele back to the spot while they remain there, rooted. Can drop staff #3 on them to further slow them.

As I said, in one year of constant WvW, my wurm was actively attacked by another player only 3 times. People see wurm as another useless minion standing there. The setup is not hard at all, when you think about it. You see a situation in front of you. It would take you 8 seconds to arrive at the scene, so while you are running to it, you place the wurm. You get there, fight, get focused, press wurm and you are out of the fight. As easy as that. Or.. if you really want, use SW, then wurm away, they will follow you, then you use SW again and teleport wayyyyy back.

I usually don’t post my vids but to prove that I’m not talking rubbish, here’s an older vid. Things are slightly different (better) today than back then, but nevertheless: You can see a few things that I talked about… teleport – wise (teleports come halfway into the vid).

In the one year that I have played… in actual WvW combat, there have only ever been about 3 instances where someone actively attacked my wurm. It’s wise, before any fight, to place it far away and keep in mind that you do have it. After a while you will learn the good places/places where neutrals don’t find it, places where it doesn’t bug. It’s almost like any other teleport, really. It just teleports back so is requires a bit more planning. As for Spectral Walk —> True, it isn’t like a Blink or Lightning flash, or wurm for that matter, but it does allow you to tank. If you are feeling the heat, use SW, pop DS, dodge and start running… can use Tainted Shackles + Life transfer. Basically you will tank long enough to drag them AWAY from the point where you 1st used it. Then pop SW again and voila, you are away from enemies. Again, it requires a bit more brain and planning cuz it isn’t a simple teleport away, but it’s very effective. But you’re right, it’s not an instant run-away skilll.

The problem is that most people wouldn’t use wurm and SW, or combinations of the skills I listed earlier. I’m not sure how those people even survive in WvW or any PvP. Or any class without defense for that matter. I’m not familiar with that kind of Necro tho… the necro without defense.

Yeah, sorry for sounding like an @$$

Andele.1306:

You forgot a part: TLDR, play necro to casually to know what a teleport escape is.

Here is what I mean: Keep in mind that the video is a little old… A newer version is really, really overdue cuz I learned several new things that can be done. Some of the equips and tactics have changed, but it just shows that it can be done.

Edit: Sorry, ,the video i posted 5 mins ago wasn’t the escape one. My bad This is the “escape” one.

Lily.1935:

1) no teleports that can get you out in a pinch.

2)Arena Net. You frustrate your necromancer community to no end. You ignore us most the time and when you do listen, you listen to the people calling for nerfs when the necromancer doesn’t need them. A player getting beat once by a necromancer doesn’t mean that he necromancer was broken.

Two things.
1) We do have teleports which people don’t seem to be aware of. Spectral walk and wurm are two excellent teleports, if you know how to use them. I hate when people say “we absolutely without doubt cannot do this” when it simply isn’t true. Oh yes, and Dark Path. In WvW, USE it on neutral monsters. If you pop spectral walk, then dark path to a neutral, continue walking, then teleport back… the distance covered is unbelievable. There so, so, so much you can do with those. I’m a teleporting Necro and I’m proud of it

2)Don’t speak on behalf of everyone to better your point. There’s just as many people satisfied, if not more, than there are dissatisfied people – they just won’t come on here to write a “thank you” thread cuz that’s… human nature. Anet doesn’t ignore us. If you go to the Dec. 10th Balance Preview (Necromancer) thread, you’ll see. Also: Necro’s have been getting nerfs because it was warranted, and I’m a saying that as a Necro fan. They simply were over the top in certain aspects. No use in denying it.

There’s a few traits that people can use to refill their deathshroud. I played a Necro since beta, and I play WvW more than anything. I noticed I severely lacked deathshroud in situations. Once it ran out, I was gone. What did I do? I adapted. Oh look, 20 points in Soul Reaping —> Soul Marks --> Problem Solved. On a condi Necro you spend barely any time auto attacking with staff. Auto attack with staff is NOT condi, does no damage, but IT is what charges your deathshroud. See the problem? You take Soul Marks —> marks charge 3.3% of DS --> life’s good (or better).

Lastly… other professions have stealth, invulnerability, etc etc, but in many cases they have to invest utility skills to do that. I realise this isn’t always the case, but let’s look at
Warrior. Endure pain + Berserk Stance = 2/3 utility skills purely for defense.
—-With a Necro, people grab Blood is Power, Signet of Spite and Epidemic and cry when they get rolled over. Well…. yeah, you went with all damage. How about swapping 1-2 of those and grabbing spectral walk or spectral armor, spectral wall, flesh wurm. There’s more than a few defensive utilities that are a godsend. Personally, I take spectral wall, spectral walk, and flesh wurm. Yes, every. single. one. is defensive and yet I manage to get 145+ tick from bleeds and can easily stack them up. Not to mention survival is through the roof. I’m not even build as a tank (other than the utilities) and people say “Oh bunker Necro”. Of course, it has its ups and downs, as does everything, so sometimes I switch in corrupt boon or another offensive utility if i’m in a group setting.

I do agree that CC is a problem though, especially if you get caught in a chain of it. The best thing you can do there is close your eyes, count to five and hope you are still alive when you open them. Jk :P

I know I may be late but I really Jon’s idea of Weakening Shroud where it procs each time we go into DS. MUCH better than a 25 cooldown, by 100 miles <3

p.s. Anet rocks

This is me when I see a zerg:

Wait what? How is a warrior a counter to a Necro? O.o Warriors are one of my favorite to kill, as long as they aren’t ultra crowd-control oriented. They can be hard to kill, but are in no way an “absolute” counter xD
Also, there are many different warrior builds, each good at a different thing.

A necro is pretty strong vs. :

- Mesmers
For example: If you use warhorn, you can pop skill #5 and go into death shroud. All the illusions will feed your life force and you will be able to tank a lot of burst. However, condi mesmers are more of a problem if you don’t have adequate cleanse/transfer (for example, if you take warhorn, which doesn’t have cleanse).

-Guardians: Corrupt boon and voila, they will evaporate into thin air. Not really, but yeah. There’s nothing sweeter than a nicely landed corrupt boon. Granted, they can convert all condis after Corrupt boon into a boon again, if they take that utility skill, but if you can bait them to use it early, you are in luck.

- Elementalists: Elementalists are similar to a guardian in a way that they are boon machines. Corrupting Armor of Earth is… nice (just ask an ele). Not only do you remove stability, but it turns into a fear. At that point, they will have to use their heal, which will most likely be the channeled one, which you can promptly fear again.

I know some of these are over-simplifications of actual situations, but Necros are very good vs. those classes. (any class that uses boons is in danger :P )

Wow these are actually really interesting ideas. I’m really liking the super speed upon entering death shroud, as well as deathly swarm ideas.

The superspeed actually got me thinking about new builds xD
And the locust swarm seems like it could be pretty powerful.

Curses IV – Weakening Shroud. Increase recharge from 15 to 25.

This is the only one that I would hate to get nerfed. I think it’s ridiculous to increase the cooldown to 25 seconds. Please, please consider reducing the duration of the spell effect itself (while maintaining the low cooldown) instead of increasing the cooldown by 10 seconds. With a 25 second cooldown, the trait would be almost useless.

I’d rather have this effect proc in frequent short bursts than one long cooldown. With a long cooldown, one clense and everything’s gone. Time to wait 25 seconds.

arKRazor.8654:

How about….

Gyuforce.8291:

Awesome fights in FC BL against [OHai]. It’s too bad we outnumbered you and pugs joined in. Either way you guys have mad skill and if you guys show up to the fight club I would love to 1v1 the guardian with the Twilight! xD

Hehe they were fun times …(for those that lived through the onslaught). We shall see you onThursday with loaded guns … be ready.

It’s true that this isn’t some kind of English class but it’s really not hard to write “were” as opposed to “where”, especially if you are trying to make a point (more people will read it. No one will care about some parentheses infested comment down at the bottom of the page, whereas they WILL care about the very first comment/post.)

I guess I shall remove that comment, but my opinion still stands <3

Much love, ciao

I disagree that the Necro was a support calss in GW1, but I don’t want to debate that. I do agree that the class changed a lot, but because of the mechanics of the game. They didn’t want to add endless debuffs (or hexes, as they were called in GW1) because it makes things too complicated for new players. (I’m sure GW1 had way more than 200 Hexes). Going along with this train of thought, they focused on conditions – Necro has a kitten-ton of condis (necro had a kitten-ton of HEXES in GW1). I’d be inclined to agree that things are looking pretty similar between gw1 and gw2 necros when the two different game mechanics/design are considered but this isn’t really true.

In GW1, one of my favorite things was to be an “anti-melee” necro – basically any physical damage person couldn’t do anything to you as long as you keep them hexed (basically they suicide if they attack you.) This is completely gone from GW2 Necros. Instead… other professions can do this through confusion (E.g. Mesmer – who was ALSO able to do this in GW1.)

Blood magic is mainly gone as well. I always loved draining people in GW1 and surviving through hell by constant life stealing. This… is also gone. Life stealing is very, very gradual in GW2. It would be cool if they made Necros life steal as a source of healing, sort of like how guardians and ele’s survive (In a sense.. we heal through life stealing, they heal through… well.. healing. But the effect is similar. )

We can say whatever we want, but it is a completely different game. In such situations, the lore is what matters, and the Necro is the master of corruption and disease … which…. it really is in both games. Besides, I’m loving my GW2 Necro and I’m a GW1 “veteran”.

As for minions… I really don’t have too big of a problem with them other than (sorry to say this) but… they are plain ugly. Ugly. Ugly and ugly. I’d likely be a minion master right now if i didn’t have to carry around those lack-of-detail – symmetrical – plain-looking things. With the art team working on GW2, I think they coulda done a much, much better job on that (especially Flesh Golem. My god). Anyway.

Your build looks good on paper. However:
If you are planning on making a WvW build, I would highly recommend switching Mark of Revival for Soul Marks (it would considerably increase your survival – you could also go with Near to Death, which would proc your Deathly Invigoration more often).
You could also switch the Well of Blood on revival trait with Well cooldowns (Could place Transfusion at 10 and well cooldown at 20). Also consider switching staff cooldowns for protection when you cast wells. It really depends what you feel like you need once things go into practice.

The downside is that you will really have no source of swiftness. This can be compensated by going with Runes of Traveler. If not, perhaps switching focus to warhorn could help (Altho personally, I like Rune of Dwayna with Well of Blood, the heals are quite nice with well+high regen… more than 1k per second for 10 seconds).

As for sigils, consider Sigil of Life. With that, you could go with Sigil of Renewal, which would heal for about 500 on weapon swap.
—-If you decide to go with Rune of Traveler, for example, you’d have +15% boon duration. 20 points in Death Magic is another 20% boon duration. With that, if you took Sigil of Battle on both weapon sets, you could easily keep up 6 stacks of might or possibly more (if you needed more damage, maybe)… or you can simply keep the gems.
Hopefully this helps

selan.8354:

mantra memer? nah the radius and duration is way to little to be viable. 2 sec of stability? lolololol

countering and ele with boon corruption? we have 1 nullfield on a long cooldown and its not a counter vs eles at all.

boons yes we can remove but again we have 1 ability on a very long cooldown.

cleansing mesmer?!? what? only because we got a matra ow doesnt mesn that it is viable. mantras are hard to use and in this cc meta try to cast your mantra and btw u will have to run in the middle of the zerg in order to use its aoe as the range is 240. and again nullfield long cooldown.

Dear friend,

1)Before posting, try to research the skills and traits of the classes discussed. Mesmers can use mantras for up to 3 times. Additionally, one can increase their boon duration up to about 90%, or more. So your “2 second” mantra stability could equate to 12 seconds of stability, AoE. lolololol.
2) I know very good elementalist players who dread corrupt boon and Necromancers. Any good ele you know will tell you they hate fighting good condi Necros, especially with corrupt boon. It is a very nice counter, if used well. Yes. It’s a counter because an Ele is a boon machine with lowest base stats. You remove the boons, you remove much of their strength.
3) Mesmers can remove many, many boons. Not only with shatters (Shattered Concentration in Domination), but with utilities and weapon skills as well.
4) Again, look at Shattered Conditions, the Grandmaster trait of Inspiration. Combine that with a Mantra, which you could possibly use 3 times, and you got a Mesmer with lots of AoE condition removal.
5) “Try casting a mantra in the stun meta” – Refer to point 1).

Immobilize stacking is absolutely horrendous in WvW.
10 second immobilizes flying left and right (immobilize is probably the last condi that gets removed by clensing)… I don’t even know where to start.

I always support Anet in basically anything they do cuz I believe they have good reasons for doing things… but not this. Not this at all. In one of their stream they said they didn’t want to enable immobilize stacking because it would almost be like a stun. Well… yeah. It is. There’s nothing like sitting there in Death Shroud, watching your meter drop as you are completely unable to move with a group of 5 pummeling down on you. You scroll down to see when this immobilize will wear off only to – wait… you geussed it – 10 more seconds left. In one instance I was immobilized under water, not sure by which skill (likely his elite before or as I jumped into the water), but I was fighting a ranger as I jumped in. I had low health. Used Spectral armor, and for 9 seconds tanked all the damage while unable to move… at all. The guy was hitting me from the back so I couldn’t turn to transfer the immobilize. I slowly sank to the bottom as Spectral Armor wore off. After it wore off, Death Shroud wore off. After death shroud wore off, my life wore off while I was completely and utterly unable to do a single thing to prevent this.. for 10 seconds or more. What. the. beep.

The only justification for this immobilize stacking would be to add immobilize breakers, much like stun breakers. As of right now, it’s ridiculous.

Last time I checked, those builds/playstyles weren’t written in stone. People choose to play with them because they have been proven effective or because people lack imagination to come up with their own stuff. This doesn’t mean there aren’t a million other effective builds.
-Countering Hammer Warrriors : Stability guardians, or now mantra Mesmer, perhaps
-Countering Guardians: Mesmers/Necros (for boon corruption)
-Countering Eles: Mesmers/Necros (for boon corruption)
-Countering condi Necros: Bring a shout profession (which could easily be -but doesnt have to be – your guardian that’s providing stability… two birds with one stone ). Could possibly bring a cleansing Mesmer.

I’m not sure why you’d play something if you find it boring tho…. what’s the point o.O

Had a really fun day today, lots of great fights with [Yarr] (turns out we make a good team ), [Nova] and several others. Also props to [GRIM] uplvl mesmer, yeah you :P .

Cheers

Haha, at our best, Kin. We have our fair share of “get-the-f-out-of-there” moments (much like the one below).
<3 tho

Well, my dear Mepheles, this is but a game. The best thing you can do is find the culprit, kill them – no matter in what context – then bask in their blood. It’s what most people do. If not… well… You could always go have a drink.

@Assassin X,
You kind words are like a warm summer breeze. Thank you… for making my day just that much better, thank you… for filling my heart with joy, and thank you for expressing your happy thoughts. Hope to see you on the battlefield

Fishbones.6914:

Ohai! had fun fighting with you guys on reset! those were some intense fights with you on my kitten the whole time

Hahaha…. too dangerous to let live with that kind of burst
…I assure you, the hunt is not over yet <3

fetusdiarrhea.1739:

It’s the new meta shout / warhorn build, pretty much the only build warriors should be running.

New meta? I’ve been using that since beta

playard.6035:

Aww, we had one (and several other?) night stand… oh, man… MAN! Q_Q

I’m old Darkhaven’s most loved DR ranger, [OHai] saved me in front of DH’s NE camp and invited me to the “party” q:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/4-19-DH-DR-IoJ/1873320

Keep fighting the good fight and have fun! (killing and — most likely — killed by… [SoCo], [VP], [NoQQ]… in recent match-ups.)

Ahhhhh! Now I remember haha, great times
Hope we get to face you guys. An open field challenge is always fun.. that is… if we can even make it to the open field

playard.6035:

—
Oh, hi, [OHai] and [SIX] and [havc] and [BOA] and Strix and Rawney and others!

[OHai] salutes you, mysterious person :O

Things are looking quite dandy down here… dandy indeed

Fun times with [StaR], [void] and [LAG] members in EB

It seems you just dislike playing an elementalist. Were you one of the people that jumped on the bandwagon when they were overpowered? And now that they are toned down you can’t play anymore and decided to come here to vent? Well… there is one very, very simple solution for you. Re-roll another class because this one, my dear friend, seems to be giving you a lot of trouble, from the amount of rage you have. A good friend of mine mains a D/D ele in WvW. He shares some frustration with people that are dissatisfied with certain things (like warrior CC being buffed, condi burst necros, ele nerfs, etc), but unlike many, he stayed on D/D despite the nerfs. He adapted and now he’s kicking kitten . I suggest you do the same, or… just… re-roll?

Very fun few hours before reset, hope to be matched up with you guys again

Had more than few friendly duels, GvGs, and chats with the opposing servers, cheers to you all /salute

Jesse.4631:

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo whos the pinky sylvari! Who i ask, who?! I shall hunt them down… copy cat

Hahaha, she is merely an innocent, inspired uplvl! You have met here before, that is all I can say for now ^,.,^

Had a little fun last night with a few people… and [BS]

(I realize one word MAY have been miss-spelled… but let’s not go there x) )

I think DS is quite powerful condition-damage wise. If you have something like critical hits causing bleeds, Life Transfer will more than likely stack a little bleeding. Then you have Dark Path, which is awesome… 3 stacks easy peasy. The best, most powerful one is Tainted Shackles. I think it was the perfect addition. Without Tainted Shackles, I’d be inclined to agree with you. WITH Tainted Shackles, on-land DS is perfect where it is for a condition user, in my opinion.

(Although I’ll admit, I rarely use Life Blast… unless I’m low on HP and trying to buy myself time. With 5-sec fury in DS, it can hit for +1k, with a chance to bleed. Not bad if you ask me )

To the [CoSA]Necro:

A friendly message:

Holy, had a pretty fun morning/afternoon today . Already made more than a few enemies >:)
It appears that interesting times could be ahead.

….Although being hit by twice as many people + 2 arrow carts and a balista when approaching a camp isn’t very exciting. Those arrow cart people might want to consider finding another job :P.

Cheers

Just want to say… was impressed with Yarr today, especially by Danelon

Also… dat focus fire 0.o

Cheers

Daedrin.2589:

Just a shout out to the OHAI and HOTS 2-4man thief gank squads around Golanta – some very fun fights over the past couple days. Looking forward to more!

Hehe that was most likely Caliber and Jyuan :o

Jesse.4631:

Thank you lol wheres Ohai been this matchup? only seen maybe 1 of your memebers

We’ve been in EB mainly. Haven’t had too many runs either :P … yet (although we did run into Yarr a few times already in EB )