Guild Wars 2

Motivation to play the throughout the season is needed, otherwise what is there to keep the population? This season saw massive influx of players when it commenced, now the population has dropped decidedly.

I’m not a major fan of decay, but under the current system without it there is no reason to keep playing once you achieve your desired rating.

I have also noticed the lack of matches played by NA leaderboard. Absolutely yes, there should be a minimum number of games to qualify for the leaderboard.

I promised myself I wasn’t going to comment on the forums, but I just can’t help myself

This is why decay needs to be harsher and there needs to be a minimum number of games played to place on the leaderboard.

Currently the pvp season does nothing to motivate players to play ALL season.

Shaogin has been collecting some very interesting data in relation to this very thing. As usual, we are all waiting for a response or some kind of input from Anet.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Matchmaking-Question-3/6433448

@Reaper Alim.4176
I will confess, starting this thread was a last roll of the dice for me. There was some very small part of me that hoped; maybe, just maybe, we could work together. Unsurprisingly, that didn’t happen. I’m not quite at the point of uninstalling, but I certainly haven’t been playing as much. Who knows how much longer farming gold in PVP will keep me interested?

@BrotherBelial.3094
The stats shown in this thread illustrate exactly where/who the populates PVP: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/GW2-Efficiency-now-has-PVP-statistics-Page/6456753

However it does seem as you say, that Anet are not interested in catering to the majority of its players.

IMHO
What I see happening in the future, is more lavish incentives to PVE players, increasing numbers of players with no understanding of basics, increasing player frustration, anger and departure from PVP.

It shouldn’t matter if you are Bronze or Legendary, matches should be balanced and include 10 people who have a “clue”.

For the foreseeable future, I am done with PVP, done with GW2, done with the forums and done being at the mercy of Anet’s disinterest and ineptitude.

Peace, over & out.

Public Test Server? Ever heard of it?

Needless to say thief team lost.

OP edited to reflect latest feedback. We need ideas and comments on validity and/or how to implement some of the points in “Discussion Needed”.

It would also be extremely helpful to get a yay or nay on some those as well.

Add yr thoughts/comments here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Let-s-Fix-Ranked-PVP/6451610

MM & MMR definitely need some work.

Hmm, dailies and class stacking isn’t a problem?

Sooloo.1364:

There is little to no point complaining about anything here, the devs have demonstrated repeatedly that they are incapable or unwilling to create a system thats fair and honest. If you want good pvp this game is not for you, nothing else needs to be said.

While I agree with you, if we do nothing and simply accept the state of play; we have no one to blame but ourselves for it remaining status quo.

Glael.7643:

Guys I didn’t mean that I want a guild to join to help me out.
I would want to help those new pvp players out and wanna create a guild.
But I couldn’t do it alone and just asked if anyone is willed to help too.

My apologies, didn’t see the forest for the trees. lol

It is certainly a great idea. I would love to help if/when I can.

Gwaihir.1745:

MissCee.1295:

I had a PM response from devs telling me, “they review forum threads based on merit”. I figure if we give them enough screenshots they won’t able to deny this is an issue.

You have no metrics to measure against, how many matches were played before seeing a stack. Therefore no merit.

The response in question was isn’t in relation to class stacking. Which, by the way, I believe is only a symptom of much broader issues facing pvp right now.

The reason I mentioned it was to highlight Anet’s attitude to the forums. They don’t monitor the forums for genuine feedback as you expect. They cherry pick what they want to read and hear.

Exedore.6320:

This thread is so useless.

If you have “bad” stacked classes, then one of you should be switching if you really want to win. If a class is stacked because it’s too good, then it needs nerfed. There is no need to restrict class stacking.

I started this as a means for folks to vent a little frustration. Swapping is all well and good when stacking is on your team, not much you can do if its the opposition.

We have a thread going now to attempt to collate issues & suggestions for pvp. Your comments and involvement would be most welcome.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Let-s-Fix-Ranked-PVP/6451610

Thanks for the comments guys. I will work on amending the OP asap.

EDIT OP Amended to include all comments prior to this post.

Wolfric.9380:

While it´s anoying and the system should at least try to distribute it even on both sides it´s not a main problem. I play elementalist and am build to destroy DH and thief. I win most matches if they are stacked on the other side. If not i adapt my build a bit.
I constantly see multiple DH, double necromancer and thief.

I main mesmer and swap to either necro or ranger if need be. I’m working on a warrior, but that needs a lot more practice.

I had a PM response from devs telling me, “they review forum threads based on merit”. I figure if we give them enough screenshots they won’t able to deny this is an issue.

MM, low population, whatever; I don’t care anymore. Sick of seeing this.

I tried to get something going before Anet announced the queue changes, unfortunately RL commitments kinda took over and I haven’t been able to pursue.

If you can’t get into a guild, here is a good starting point for you: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known

>400 views and no one has anything to say? I find that very hard to believe. Speak up folks. If don’t at least try to make Anet listen, we have no one but ourselves to blame for a lack of improvement.

Huskyboy.1053:

MissCee.1295:

Here’s the latest from Anet:

We are unable to disclose our procedures to players due to it being apart of our internal operations. As previously stated we are working to prosecute afk players as they get reported but it is all case by case. Sorry I could not tell you more.

I’ve kept pushing, my reply:

I don’t mean to be flogging a dead horse, but that kind of closed-lip non-response is not really good enough. No one who plays pvp cares about “internal operations”, what they want to see is a strict code of conduct openly being enforced. I am increasingly playing matches where map chat is announcing who is afk, who is a repeat dc. GW2 is an MMO focused on PVE, I totally get that. But if you don’t wanna do PVP well why do it at all?

Pretty obvious this is going nowhere fast.

At the point they’ve said that they’re not going to say anything, they’re not going to say anything. Not really worth arguing with support about it since they’re not in a position to implement changes anyways.

I’m fast discovering it’s hardly worth speaking to Anet at all. I decided to push this issue a little further when a player I’d reported for Match Manipulation (Anet acknowledged manipulation and said player was dealt with) turned up in a pvp today.

They want us to think the forums are for feedback, but they are only to make us feel like we are being heard. Not that we actually are.

I’ve only been playing around 12mths. I can see now why so many pvp’ers have already walked away.

Here’s the latest from Anet:

We are unable to disclose our procedures to players due to it being apart of our internal operations. As previously stated we are working to prosecute afk players as they get reported but it is all case by case. Sorry I could not tell you more.

I’ve kept pushing, my reply:

I don’t mean to be flogging a dead horse, but that kind of closed-lip non-response is not really good enough. No one who plays pvp cares about “internal operations”, what they want to see is a strict code of conduct openly being enforced. I am increasingly playing matches where map chat is announcing who is afk, who is a repeat dc. GW2 is an MMO focused on PVE, I totally get that. But if you don’t wanna do PVP well why do it at all?

Pretty obvious this is going nowhere fast.

Pakkazull.6894:

MissCee.1295:

There will always be crybaby posts on the forum, that is obvious to any village idiot.

I could interpret that as you calling me a “village idiot”, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

MissCee.1295:

Anet don’t have a good track record with addressing issues in an expedient manner.

Can’t really argue with that, they’re slow as kitten when it comes to PvP.

I’d change/add the following things:

• Add # of games played requirement to show up on leaderboards (say, 100 or so)
• More aggressive decay in higher divisions
• Voice comms (yeah, not going to happen)
• Better incentive to keep playing after you’ve finished the Byzantium chest (i.e. additional league tickets and ascended shards, even if the yield is very low)
• Build templates (not specific to PvP. A man can dream, right?)

Some feedback on previous suggestions:

MissCee.1295:

No match to commence without all 10 players being connected

Good suggestion.

MissCee.1295:

Solo q and group q (2,3,5 man). There needs to be an in-game option for competitive teams and protect solo q’ers from being “farmed”

I kind of agree and disagree at the same time. In my opinion, ranked league play should be kept to solo/duo queue as it is now, and alternative, separate venues should be introduced for competitive team play (such as automated tournaments).

MissCee.1295:

If players are going to be rated individually some metric must be included to measure individual contribution. An individual’s rating cannot solely be tied to a team win/lose outcome.

I don’t really see how you could make a system that accurately measures individual contribution, especially one that can’t be gamed (which could result in undesirable behaviour), nor do I belive it is feasible for ArenaNet to develop such a system.

MissCee.1295:

“Qualifying” division below Bronze for all new players to Ranked

I don’t see the point to be honest.

MissCee.1295:

No class stacking.

Depends on how it’s implemented, but my initial reaction is “no”. Better solved through balancing and players switching.

“Village idiot” was certainly not directed at you. I’m waiting on a few more response so I can amend OP.

Pakkazull.6894:

People are always going to complain no matter what. That people are whining isn’t really an indication of anything, it’s just a constant of the universe. The fact that ArenaNet changed so many things for this season is an indication that they do care and do listen to feedback.

There will always be crybaby posts on the forum, that is obvious to any village idiot. However there are some issues which, like the complaints, have been a constant for way too long. Eg, Match Manipulation (dc/afk) never addressed adequately. Currently there are genuine concerns regarding manipulation of the leaderboard (NA Server).

Anet don’t have a good track record with addressing issues in an expedient manner. There communication skills are also lacking. After more than 4yrs from release the state of Ranked PVP should be in a much better place.

I agree pvp is better now than it has been. But why should we settle for mediocrity? Why shouldn’t Anet be striving harder towards genuine quality?

I’m collating all of this in a Word doc. Once we get some more input I’ll start making amendment to initial post.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Giving points for top stats would kill the game outright.

Don’t see that in the list anywhere, but it’s a good point.

If you do use Nvidia, make sure your check privacy settings are “allowed” to share. Or else pressing record does nada

Deathok.2914:

Look at the forum lol there are tons of issues mentioned to fix your issues just ain’t that important

Geez, what part of “starting point for discussion” did you not understand? These suggestions were collated from reading the forums.

Do you think ranked pvp is fine the way it is? Does it need no improvement or change at all?

My issues with the state of pvp are irrelevant for the purpose of this thread. We can keep making individual threads complaining about:
Divisions/MMR
Toxicity
Lack of Tutorial
Match Manipulation
Match Making
Lack of Balance
and the list goes on.

Or… the community can have a discussion and push Anet to move forward in direction we as players want.

Alternatively, if you’re only purpose is to troll. Sorry to say, swing and a miss.

Deathok.2914:

No offense but I gotta agree. Those changes are terrible and unnecessarry…
There are so many other and more important things to fix.
Besides your ideas are not fitting I mean a resign option sounds terrible and not needed do you know how many comebacks are in this game and how easy you can comeback? You shouldnt be able to give up…

I ask you the same thing…. What do you suggest?

Lordrosicky.5813:

Terrible ideas imo

What do you suggest?

EDITED 4th Jan 2017
Quick glance at the forums and you realise much of the community believe Anet don’t’ care. We need to make them care! After receiving feedback, I’ve divided the following suggestions into “Agreed”, “Discussion Needed” (for further development & improvement) and “Optional/QOL”. These suggestions relate to Ranked arena only.

(I’ve done my best to collate similar suggestions and opinions. Please send me a PM if you believe I’ve made a glaring error and I will fix asap.)

AGREED

1/ No match to commence without all 10 players being connected
Players to be returned to queue

2/ Player code of conduct.
To be based on fair play and sportsmanship, stiff penalties to eradicate match manipulation. Particular emphasis on AFK and repeater DC;s. Code of Conduct could be displayed on “Instructions screen” pre-match. (Discussion required regarding format & implementation)

3/ Remove daily achievements from Ranked

4/Fix dishonour bug. Eg Overtime, party members

5/ Leaderboard Gaming and Manipulation
Refer to suggestions in Discussion Needed

DISCUSSION NEEDED

1/ Invalid Matches
Invalidating matches for a DC. Game to close out after”x” mins/seconds, no win/loss for either team

2/Solo q (1 man only) and group q (2,3,5 man).
Most agree this needs to happen, implementation and queue times may be an issue. Alternate suggestion is to have only 1man queue & 5man queue. Those who wish to queue as 5man can then either wait for queue or opt out and join solo queue individually

3/ Individual Skill Rating
General consensus is w/l is not accurate (or fair measure) of individual skill. Of most concern is the accuracy and application of any metric to indicate individual skill.

Visible team MMR

4/ In Game Communication
Stacked mini-map icons, unclear and cumbersome map pings, all warrant mention.

5/ Skill Gating Ranked/Tutorial
A divisive topic, but generally it seems most would like to see players entering Ranked with a better basic understanding play.

6/ Class stacking.
Opinions remain divided. Some argue it is a population issue, others that it is a MM flaw. Input from Anet would be most helpful as to how MM treats classes.

6a/ Class balance or lack thereof

7/ Ranked-only rewards
Needs to smoothed out, in particular Ascended Shards of Glory. They should be rewarded for continued play in ranked, not stop after you reach some threshold

Giving reward pips on losses undermines the spirit of ranked (= competitive). Attach reward pip gains to the points reached in a match like you get 1 pip per 100 points reached and +5 for the victory. A blowout below 100 gives nothing.

8/ Match tracking & reporting
Better tracking/reporting for when a match doesn’t count. We have constant forum posts where ANet explains why wins + losses != games played.

9/ Decay system.
Decay doesn’t need to exist at lower ratings. At higher ratings, decay needs to be permanent and require more than one game every three days.

10/ End-of-Season lock.
To prevent smurfs from flooding the top of the leaderboard on the last days of the season, lock leaderboard access a week or so before the end so only players who have completed placement before then can appear on the leaderboard.

11/ Leaderboard Requirement
Add # of games played requirement to show up on leaderboards (say, 100 or so)

12/ Motivating players to continue match despite loss. Eg. Less rating loss for close games (Multiple suggestions)

13/ Matchmaking remains a controversial topic

14/ Code of Conduct
What should it include? How is it implemented and/or enforced?

Optional/QOL
Ability to save builds for easy swap pre-match

I’ve suspected for awhile now that in-game reports achieves SFA, so….

After losing too many games (not to mention rating points) to AFK’ers I decided to try something different. I submitted a “Report A Player” using the support ticket system.

Got a response within 24hrs, here it is:

Thanks for the report. I’ve looked into it and found that they have been manipulating matches. I cannot discuss the actions taken against the account but rest assured that is being handled appropriately.

Now I’m not sure what “handled appropriately” means, but at least it got a response and was acknowledged.

Few tips on what to include in your report so it can be handled quickly:

• Take screenshots, including end result showing loss of rating points. Cos you know you are going to lose that match.
• Toon name or username (eg MissCee.1295) of player you are reporting
• Date & time (include timezone) of occurrence
• Details of situation of when/why they went afk

You will receive an automated response from the ticket system. Reply to this and attach screenshots. I could not find a way to attach pics to original ticket.

I know its extra work and a pain in the kitten none of us should have to deal with, but its a start and may compel Anet to start addressing the community’s broader concerns about match manipulation.

I think this pretty much falls into the “learn to rotate” category. Admittedly rotation is not my strong suit. So much to learn, so many pototoes. lol

But seriously, so many players don’t watch the mini map or the team health bars. Before making a move anywhere, I look at the map, look at health bars. Lack of map & situational awareness is a big issue for many players. Myself included at times.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/

That’s why we have threads like this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Partial-Fix-For-Ranked-PvP-Disincentivize-It/6446844

I used to love playing my necro, not so much now. It is pretty much key spam, dodge, shroud; rinse & repeat

I’ve been following this thread with keen interest. Shaogin brings to light some interesting numbers. Wouldn’t it be nice if all this was just available in game? Would save a lot of debate and controversy.

sephiroth.4217:

There are plenty of bad people and there are the worst ones than that, I’ve recently discovered my match making is mostly broken because I queue in so called off hours being an Aussie player and apparently that was a huge a contributor my unbalanced games.

^This! I posted in another thread about the inherent difficulty of playing as an Aussie.

Just now I got told by a player on my team that “rotation is bad strategy”. How the kitten do I carry that? I’m a mesmer, not a freaking magician.

Seriously, I think it’s great to see Helseth mingle with the plebs. It is give all you “git gud” keyboard warriors some insight into how truly bad some of the play is.

As I’ve said before, you can be good enough to pull your own weight, but buckle under the load of potatoes.

UPDATE: 31st Dec 2016

I received a response, here it is:

Anet: When it comes to afk cases we investigate them as they are reported so we can actively take action against them. If you have any suggestions we suggest you post them to the forums so that the developers can get a first look at them. As support we cannot implement suggestions from players in game. If have any more questions feel free to contact us again.

While I was happy to receive a response, I wasn’t much impressed by the content. My reply:

Thank you for the response. The issue at hand is, myself and many other are posting suggestions to the forums but there is no response. Additionally, it would appear the “active action” taken against reported players is having little to no impact, if so there would not be so many thread/posts regarding the topic. The following is a small sample I put together. Unfortunately the forum search function is very basic, I had to trawl through all the threads to find:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Partial-Fix-For-Ranked-PvP-Disincentivize-It/first#post6449954

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-you-saw-in-lower-divisions/6448574

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Tend-ncies-Duos-Carry-Placement/6448645

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Awaiting-a-Response/first#post6449982

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Reasons-players-are-unhappy-with-PvP/6445514

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Match-Manipulation

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Offering-gold-for-afking

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/LOL-same-player-still-paying-people-to-DC/first#post6448350

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Thoughts-from-the-Bottom/6440825

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Bronze-grind-to-leg/6447441

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Some-people-shouldn-t-be-allowed-in-ranked/first#post6447551

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Anet-Awareness/6443010

As you are no doubt aware, more people lurk on the forums than actively contribute. I can’t help but wonder how many people read the forums, relate to comments being made but simply don’t bother saying anything because Devs appear not to care.

I understand the forums are an extemely volatile place. Anet gets a lot of hate. You can’t please all of the people of all the time.

My question to you is, based on your reply: What is this “active action” being taken? The pvp community would desperately like to know.

Stay tuned, I will post any further communication I receive.

Got stomped by a druid huh?

Alek Seven.2374:

Why not stop the match INSTANTLY when someone dc/afk (after 1m in game) ?

Seems like a perfectly good solution to me, yet Anet appear unwilling to do anything about these things.

kdaddy.5431:

Simply put i dont trust Anet when saying this is a fair system, or the rating system is fair, or the +/- of games are fair.

OMG this!!!!

Zintrothen.1056:

Hasn’t this been suggested a bunch of times already and Anet still hasn’t done anything?

Frankly I’m not overly hopeful, but… Community had been asking forever for template builds and they finally got added. So ya never know, we might get lucky.

Oh I didn’t realise AG was still going in NA. Cos I’m in Australia the time diff has made it very hard for me to play. Then I heard it had ALL stopped. Must try to figure out way to get in and play.

I wasn’t around back in the good ol’ days. Was so disappointed when I found out there used to be regular in-game tournaments. Obviously Anet are not familiar with the saying “if ain’t broke don’t fix it”. Think they must be working on a new adage “if its broken, let’s keep using it.”

I was in queue last night with a friend, q popped we both click Accept, then instantly removed. Tried to requeue only to find I had dishonor. Cannot fathom how I incurred dishonor for accepting q pop.

+1 to the OP. Although I do kinda like the offense/defense. At least that encourages fighting on point. But even it could be abused.

BloodriverTim.2031:

I thought the season started out great, but as the playerbase dwindles my teams get increasingly bad. Yesterday really sparked the decline. Games were decided one way or the other by 300+ points. It’s not fun to be on either end of that. I might as well just flip a coin, get the win or loss and save myself 15 minutes. I say this starting the season in bottom silver after having won seven of ten placements. I then won the next 13 matches and was still in silver. The system still isn’t working properly, but i put up with it because I want to see ANET succeed.

I put up with it not because I want Anet to succeed, but that I want to get better.

The system is what it is. I’ve come to the conclusion (rightly or wrongly) Anet isn’t interested in listening to players or making genuine improvements. If they did balance patches would be more frequent, testing would be done in Unranked or off-season.

kitten we are “trialling” their new system during competitive season. No possible changes until end of season. That concept alone makes my brain explode.

What I find particularly frustrating with regards to player population and off peak hours is my geographic location. I live in Australia, I have no idea how large or small the player population is within my timezone, but I know it sure won’t match the population of NA timezones.

Most of the time my only option is to queue during what is essentially “off peak” hours. I see A LOT of variation in match quality. For me it would be incredibly helpful to see team mmr. At least then I might have some hope of figuring out best times to play.

The standard argument against team queue is that the queue times will be too long. Isn’t it up to the folks queuing to decide whether or not it is too long? Currently there is no team queue, so how would we know how long/short the queue times are.

FWIW I believe solo q should be exactly that, solo only. Team q (better named group q) should be for 2,3 or 5 man groups. Please note that I did not include 4 man for group queue, as a 4 man party would require a solo to make up numbers and this is not fair.

Solo q should at the very least attempt to offer some measure of solo skill rather than based on team w/l.

My 2C