Guild Wars 2

Really like the Mentor idea. It is so hard during a match to type, fight and teach.

Considering the sheer volume of threads and posts complaining about new players and their lack of knowledge (and/or skill). I’m supposed the request for tutorial thread hasn’t had a better response.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PVP-Needs-Tutorial-pls-comment-if-agree

I’m pretty sure Glorious Armor is not craftable. It’s a loot item only. Happy to wrong though.

Or we can insist Anet implement some kind of tutorial:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PVP-Needs-Tutorial-pls-comment-if-agree

AFK/idlers is the single thing that frustrates me the most. If you give up so easily or don’t really want to play, then why bother queuing?

Shadowstep.6049:

This game needs bot mode like other games have it. You don’t get much rewards from those but you can practice in those matches. If Blizz and Riot manage to create bots that follow payload, destroy towers, group up for fights, chose different routers etc. i am sure Anet could make simple bots that go for 2 points and try to defend.

I agree. I also believe that until we as a community demand it Anet will not act.

Yup. If you watch the forum you will see this exact topic coming up again and again AND AGAIN. Perhaps if all keep on about it something may happen eventually.

How many threads, how many posts and how many times do we as a community have to ask before a tutorial is implemented in spvp?

Personally, I applaud Anet’s efforts to attract more (new) players to pvp, but…. The skill level of new players entering ranked is laughable at times. Unlike a lot of people, I don’t blame the newbies for being clueless potatoes, I blame Anet for not giving them the necessary tools to learn.

GW2 is overall lacking in anything resembling a tutorial in any game mode. However it is becoming increasingly evident how critical the need is for a tutorial in pvp.

A while back, with help from the community we put together: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known

More threads on needing a tutorial and some suggestions:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PvP-Needs-a-basic-tutorial/first#post6435762

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Plan-sPvP-Tutorial-Redux/first#post6433389

Is it not glaringly obvious this is something the community wants and is willing to help create?

Please leave a brief comment if you agree we need a tutorial in pvp and or any other suggestions you have for including/creating a tutorial system.

Edit: My hope is to make this thread so large it cannot be ignored.

The biggest barrier for new players is the total lack of anything resembling a tutorial on how things work, or how to contribute. Which is why I am going to ref this thread AGAIN! Devs pay attention!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known

I posted this comment in another thread. It seemed appropriate to repost here.

FWIW I think there is a vast difference in playing environment from mid-top tier as opposed to mid-bottom. In the former group, players generally are adept on multiple classes, can reroll when necessary and do so. In the mid-bottom tier (where the majority of players reside) a lot of players are only adept on one (maybe two) classes, are hesitant to reroll and therefore rarely do.

Yes there are many wussy-sook complaints on the forums, but a lot are based in actual gameplay experience. From what I’ve seen recently, top-mid players can’t quite wrap their head around what is happening in lower tiers because it simply doesn’t happen at higher tiers. This comes across to lower tier players as “git gud, l2p” elitist bs.

I think we need to acknowledge that the play environment is very different between top and bottom tiers. Having done so, we can then move forward by seeking ways to even the playing field. (no pun intended)

Class stacking is something you see in Unranked and lower tiers of Ranked frequently. It really does need to be addressed. I don’t know what the answer is, I’m just a try-hard scrub.

I am going to keep referring this post: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known

Until the devs implement some kind of tutorial.

I understand where OP is coming from. S4 was my first “serious” season, went through to Diamond with approx 50-52% win rate. Placement matches S5 5-5, got put in Bronze. Now my win rate has dropped to something like 30-33%. Can’t quite figure out where, how or why I am now apparently 20% less skilled at winning.

Oh well, play lose or win, find ways to improve I guess.

Wolfric.9380:

I wish i had known how critical placement matches are -). I would have duoed with my best friend …

Wouldn’t we all have

Thanks for giving this thread a bump. Been trying hard for ages to get devs to add some kind of tutorial or gateway to Ranked.

DC while annoying as kitten, can be hard to determine if it is deliberate or accidental. AFK or idle however is a different kettle of fish. I’d like to see a penalty on mmr and/or reward pips to those that do.

FWIW I think there is a vast difference in playing environment from mid-top tier as opposed to mid-bottom. In the former group, players generally are adept on multiple classes, can reroll when necessary and do so. In the mid-bottom tier (where the majority of players reside) a lot of players are only adept on one (maybe two) classes, are hesitant to reroll and therefore rarely do.

Yes there are many wussy-sook complaints on the forums, but a lot are based in actual gameplay experience. From what I’ve seen recently, top-mid players can’t quite wrap their head around what is happening in lower tiers because it simply doesn’t happen at higher tiers. This comes across to lower tier players as “git gud, l2p” elitist bs.

I think we need to acknowledge that the play environment is very different between top and bottom tiers. Having done so, we can then move forward by seeking ways to even the playing field. (no pun intended)

Class stacking is something you see in Unranked and lower tiers of Ranked frequently. It really does need to be addressed. I don’t know what the answer is, I’m just a try-hard scrub.

The idea and suggestion for a comprehensive tutorial is not new. Personally I think if Anet want to attract and keep new players in pvp they need to do something to help educate them.

During last season with help from the community, I put together this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known

There were requests made for it to be stickied. Of course, that hasn’t happened.

If anyone from PVP Devs would like to get involved, that would be great. The new system is a dramatic improvement on previous seasons, but we need to improve the general skill/knowledge level of players coming in.

Crowley.8761:

I’m playing with people that let a Mesmer self-ress because they get fooled by illusions It’s so inspiring to play with these challenged, brave individuals.

As a mesmer I can affirm this statement. I’ve lost count how many times I’ve bandaged myself back into a fight. It just shouldn’t happen. (Not that I’m complaining lol)

From what I’ve been reading on the forums, and seeing in matches for myself, it seems there is a massive divide in how people are experiencing this new system. Personally, I do like the new system, but there must be a problem somewhere for there to exist such an extraordinary difference in experience. The pvp community can’t be made up of 50/50 awesome/crap players. But from the reading the forums this is the only conclusion I can come to, given the polar extreme reactions.

At the beginning of S5 I would’ve classed myself as maybe average. 50-52% win rate on each of my three classes individually and combined. After abyssmal placement matches (totally my fault, I stopped practicing during off-season) I was placed in Bronze. It took a few matches, but I got my groove back and yet apparently I’m 20% worse now than I was just a few weeks ago. I don’t seem to be able to win 2 matches in a row if my life depended on it.

While I’m happy to see the pvp scene attract new players, I can’t help but wonder if we are attracting the wrong type of players.

As many others have said, a player should know the basics of how conquest works and their chosen class’s role before entering ranked competition. I don’t believe we should make it so difficult that a new player can’t “pass the test” to enter ranked. But I do believe we need to invest in educating players so that players in ranked are there to compete and not just for the shinies.

Anyway I have a skill deficit to improve. So back to battle I go.

PS: Play as a team or lose like a pug

Honest John.4673:

MissCee.1295:

When I saw the news about removing personal and introduction of top stats I was optimistic. As others have said, to rank an individual based on a team W/L is misguided. What I don’t understand is why the top stats don’t contribute to your rating. If they were, you could play well on a losing team and it would be at least somehow represented in your rating. As is it, you can sweep the board of top stats on a losing team only to see your rating drop.

A keyboard turner on a guard can bang his head against the keyboard and get top damage. A mouth breather can rush far and 1v1 there for ages and get the most offense, any heal ele can spam heals in losing teamfight after losing teamfight and get top healing, any thief can hop around the map tagging every kill and get top kills and all the while each of these players can forget about the point of the game and still lose.

B-but they got T O P S T A T S!!!

I totally agree, but… there are players on losing sides who actively competing and their rating relies solely on the Team W/L. All I’m suggesting is that if we are going to have any sort of personal score or top stat should count towards the individual’s rating. Those types of players you mention will soon find themselves out of their depth if/when they progress and promptly go down again.

I had 3 matches in a row during my placement games with afk. 4v5 does not bode well for your mmr.

I stand by my suggestion in another thread. If your “top stats” were applied to your rating rather than reward track pip, it would be incentive to play well even on losing team. Also it would help the “cream” rise a little faster.

When I saw the news about removing personal and introduction of top stats I was optimistic. As others have said, to rank an individual based on a team W/L is misguided. What I don’t understand is why the top stats don’t contribute to your rating. If they were, you could play well on a losing team and it would be at least somehow represented in your rating. As is it, you can sweep the board of top stats on a losing team only to see your rating drop.

About halfway through S4 I made the decision to learn how to play Mesmer. They were the one class that gave me a lot of trouble. I wanted to learn how to beat them.

When I first started playing Mesmer I was being stomped and killed by everything, ALL the time. It made me feel more useless than a newbie scrub potato.

It took considerable effort, but I managed to get a grip on how to play Mesmer (and how to beat them). I enjoyed playing Mesmer so much I now play it as my main in pvp. However, I discovered a new thorn in my side, thieves. Sneaky buggers stealth in and ganking me before I could do anything. More time, more effort; even a spent some time on a thief toon so I could understand how they work, et voila I can defend myself against thieves.

You are always going to come across players of varying ability. A truly good thief, still gets the better of me. But when that happens, I know it is my lack of skill and not some supernatural trait/skill on thieves that makes me die.

In conclusion, learn to identify flaws and weaknesses in your skill and ability. Practice, practice, practice. Be prepared to accept that we each have skill limits and can’t all be Lord Helseth.

Had two no apparent reason dc’s in last 15mins. Goes back to character select and says disconnected from server. Click play and back in the game. Haven’t noticed rollbacks or anythnig else.

Frankly, I agree with most complaints so far. I was excited for the new map and new episode. Sadly that excitement was short-lived.

Pros

• New map, new events, new loot, new collectibles. Always good

• Map scenery is quite stunning

• Interacting with Aurene’s development. We protected the egg with our life and it is rewarding to see her starting to grow up. Besides I love the idea of being foster mum to a dragon

Cons

• Tedious open world NPC dialogue during story. If I wanted to read a story I would buy a book. Please let me play the game. Standing around with the huddled masses listening to a quaggan drone on is not my idea of fun.

• As has been mentioned (a lot) previously. Boss fight mechanics seem to require you to be a mind-reader. A hint here and there would go a long way towards lowering frustration and increasing enjoyment. I don’t mind a challenge, but I would like to start a fight with at least some idea of what I need to do.

• Map navigation and layout is ill-conceived. There is so much wrong here, I barely know where to start. If you want players to only run around, at least tone down the mob spawns. Can barely take two steps without encountering a mob. When do I get a chance to enjoy my stunning new surroundings? Defending Winterberry gather nodes with 6 or more monsters. Are you kidding me? When I first encountered the Thermal Tube mechanic I was a fan, that is no longer the case. Unlike Skritt Tunnels or Nuhoch Wallows which tells us clearly where they go, Thermal Tubes seem to be placed haphazardly and in Bitterfrost Frontier do not represent a truly alternate means of map navigation. Don’t even get me started on how utterly useless Ley Line Gliding is here.

• The Elixir should be a mastery line similar to Poison Mastery. You should only have to make the Elixir once as part of the story, or as an alternative while completing mastery line. I for one, will not be gathering and making an elixir everyday for the sole purpose to enter a part of the map I have no reason to visit once I have done the story and received mastery insight.

• The need for a Svanir disguise each time to access heart vendor I believe could be handled similarly to my suggestion about The Elixir. I am starting to think Anet have a team of devs specifically dedicated to find new ways to introduce tedium and inventory stuffing to gameplay.

• While I like the idea of incorporating existing mechanics (eg bouncing mushrooms) and monsters into a new zone, mushroom mobs do seem to be an odd inclusion. Fair enough they live in the hot springs zone which may be similar in climate to Maguuma Jungle, but I believe a new monster evolved to cope with the extreme cold and taking advantage of the hot springs would’ve worked better. (For an example see Japanese Snow Monkey) Even Quaggans gone rogue would’ve been better.

• +1 all previous comments relating to Commander Doormat.

Any reasonable person understands you can’t please all the people all of the time. However, I am sorry to say after spending >12hrs in the new zone I find it and LW Episode disappointing. So much potential wasted. This latest installment does little to make me optimistic or enthusiastic for what is to come.

Add me to the list of bugged out purchasers

Frankly I’m very disappointed by Anet’s decision to include Skyhammer in the ranked rotation. I loved the old Skyhammer. Unlike the Trebuchet in Khylo which takes forever to aim, the Skyhammer was almost point & shoot. However, you needed to watch the mini map like a hawk to know where to shoot for most benefit and constantly be on guard for incoming to take you out. Since Anet pummeled it with a nerf bat it feels like just any ol’ map. Will certainly never be getting my vote come Season 5

Personally I think a match should be automatically abandoned if all players aren’t connected when match starts.

tichorum.2415:

I’ll see what I can do about getting something that’s more up to date stickied. It would certainly help to keep it updated!

That would be fantastic. I’m still looking for help with cleaning up the rotation thread. It’s not my strong suit and don’t want to lead anyone astray with poor editing.

You shouldn’t be wasting time trying to kill pets. It’s like knocking off mesmer clones. If you focus on the player and not the pet, Ranger/Druid will give you far less problems.

Been banging this drum for awhile.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known/6345037

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known-About-Rotation

Contacted devs to submit, no response.

A few thoughts & concerns regarding this proposal. (haven’t been able to vote on the poll because it is not working for me)

• Ranked season is not the time or place to be testing things. Anything to be tested should be done in Unranked & preferably during off-season

• Eradicating teams from Ranked play (even if it turns out only to be one season) is madness. The entire concept of Conquest is based on 5-man teams.

• How does Anet propose to encourage team progression to ESL if teams are unable to compete in Ranked?

• I can see no reason why there can’t be solo/duo queue AND team queue. Have it as a settings preference similiar to Conquest and Stronghold.

Keeps redirecting back to store/account page. Even after typing in addy directly.

Ranger/Druid has two pets, so killing one only means the backup pet will come into play.

When playing Ranger, I stay as far away from everyone as I can, using my Range to my advantage.

When playing against a ranger, regardless of class, I get in as close as possible and get off as much dps or condi as I can.

It works for me

Josh Davis.6015:

Would a stickied LF thread on this forum suffice?

A sticky thread is better than what we have. But seriously, sub forum would be better. This is GW2 sPVP, not Reddit sPVP. The official forums should be our first and best means of communication and recruitment.

Well it seems apparent that the best place to recruit pvp players isn’t on the forums here, cos no-one looks in LF for pvp stuff. Reddit has given me the best outcome to date.

While I’m at it. Why then, could we not have a subforum of pvp (wvw) for LF. That would give us a viable recruitment area and not clutter discussion forum.

Tiefsee.3647:

MissCee.1295:

From what I see there is a lot for existing players to be hopeful about. There is also some consideration in making it more attractive to new players. What I don’t see is any mechanism or idea proposed to help educate new players.

Today I visited the “PVP Instructor”, all I was shown was a few circles on the map directing me to NPC’s. How that “instructs” a new player on how to play is beyond me. Point in case, match earlier today one of my teammates bunked far on Foefire the entire match because they thought it was home.

Newbies need some basic education before they are thrown to the wolves. It may be too late for this to be considered or included for next update, but it must be made a priority.

If good players would be lowered in their rank, they could teach new players – but they would expose this mechanic for winstreaks and reward tracks

But if new players get rated higher, when they team up – they have to learn really quickly!

There is no simple solution, one option could be a lanista ( http://m.tribunesandtriumphs.org/gladiators/gladiator-schools.htm ) a trainer for the new PvP players.

The system could work this way; when a good player joins a team with a bad player, both play in the higher tier – except the better player activates the lanista modus. He won’t gain or lose ranks, the PvP track is way slower, but they both get ranked in the lower tier of the new player.

Maybe trow some achiefments in there as motivation;
- your pvp student earned pvp rank 30
- your pvp student became diamond
- your pvp student had 100 rated wins
- you got 5 pvp students that gained 10 levels

You got the idea…

A basic tutorial would be a good place to start

As always, the few ruin it for the many. Possibly the algorithm could be adjusted to not team you with blocked players. I don’t mind killing them, just don’t want to be on same team.

From what I see there is a lot for existing players to be hopeful about. There is also some consideration in making it more attractive to new players. What I don’t see is any mechanism or idea proposed to help educate new players.

Today I visited the “PVP Instructor”, all I was shown was a few circles on the map directing me to NPC’s. How that “instructs” a new player on how to play is beyond me. Point in case, match earlier today one of my teammates bunked far on Foefire the entire match because they thought it was home.

Newbies need some basic education before they are thrown to the wolves. It may be too late for this to be considered or included for next update, but it must be made a priority.

Seriously, I want to know. It makes no sense to post in LF forum when you are looking for PVP players. Same goes for WVW.

An outlet for anger managment and desire to improve my game

Firstly, mostly agree with OP. Some points I differ somewhat, but will not waste time on semantics.

Zintrothen.1056: People solo queue because they are casual and that’s what SoloQ should be about.
Just because you don’t play on a premade doesn’t mean you are not a serious player. I play 4-8hrs a day in Solo Q because in my part of the world there is not enough a large enough player population and finding a team is proving to be a monumental task. There is Unranked or HotJoin for the casual player. As far as I’m concerned Ranked is for all players who want to compete.

Roquen.5406: Not everyone “can” reach legendary.
Absolutely correct! And not every player deserves to be legendary. Folks need to give up this idea that in a competitive mode everyone can have everything. I worked my butt off to make Diamond and know kitten well I don’t deserve Legendary. Lots more work and practice before that becomes an achievable goal.

IMHO majority of issues in spvp right now are as a direct result of poor balance and MM. If/when we see that improve a lot of the extranneous issues will resovle themselves.

I tend to agree that if MM were better queue times would naturally lower due to higher player population. One of the most frequent complaints all year has been poor match quality.

+1 to OP. Totally agree. I for one wouldn’t stress about longer queue times if meant better MM and more diversity in comp.

Wasn’t able to add Rotation tips on this post, so started a new thread. Help making sense of it and cleaning it up would be appreciated.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known-About-Rotation

Rotation (Part 2)

Let’s say you have a start where your team is 1 home (which they should win easily), 2 of your teammates is pushing far and the rest of your team is gonna be 2v4 mid, if the 2 mid are bad players who chose to go in and die then complain about their teammates not being there it’s an easy losing scenario BUT, if the 2 simply choose not to commit to the 2v4 it’s actually a winning scenario for your team. sometimes you don’t even have to win, you just need to live and over time winning scenarios favouring you to screw over the other team. its winning cuz say your team won 2v1 far and capped both sides, mid can get easily punished for losing numbers mid to go to side point especially if the 2 in your team did not die and rendezvoused with the side teammates they are already out numbered 4v5 for a good amount of time after the guy at far dies.

Winning the fight > capping a point (ESPECIALLY IF U CAN’T HOLD IT), if there is a scenario where for example your capping far as a necro and u see a teammate necro heading towards far to you while being trained by 2 people. it is a terrible decision to stay to cap while watching your teammate die because your teammate is not like a thief that can just get away and once your teammate dies you’ll be left with 1v2 on a class that is terrible for it. the teammate can’t do anything about it, it’s in your hands.

Same thing when fighting off point, let’s say you’re in forest of nifhel and you and a teammate are heading towards mid and you know there is an annoying tanky dh standing there waiting for you guys to come. then on your way you guys stumble upon an enemy necro heading towards mid. heading to where the dh is to take a 2v2 is a WEAK play and takes more effort and probably won’t even get the decap anyways, instead just gank the necro off point real quick so that the necro has to waste cds on himself or may even die then if that necro is using everything he’s got to get stand on mid you will have either a winning 2v2 or a favourable 2v1.

If for some reason you’re on a side point with a damage class that shouldn’t be taking duels, if you have to take the duel against like a melee warrior for some reason without help, you are much better off letting them decap (assuming holding it for a few more seconds is the key to victory) while free casting damage on them than staying on the point while taking a duel you shouldn’t win if you stay on point because of at least 2 reasons: 1. taking less effort to win a duel for free is always good and 2. so that your hp and cds are still good enough to escape if the enemy is getting reinforcements from their spawn or your lost mid fight.

There are so many specific situations that require experience to know which decisions are optimal. Telling people to rotate doesn’t really get them to understand what you want them to do most of the time. Although winning 1v2 far can be strong, winning the 4v3 is 10x more important.

Basic logic: wiping (even as 1 person) on any point very likely leads to an outnumbered fight somewhere else. living to reset is generally always better than dying, waiting 15 sec to spawn plus however many more secs and cds spent to get to where they need to from spawn.

Sorry for WOT, didn’t have a lot of time to edit & make pretty

Following feedback on Things I’d Wish Known in PVP , I’ve cobbled together some detailed tips on Rotation.

Many thanks to posters in pvp forum thread from where I copied pasted (a lot). Also thanks to posters in the original “Things” thread for rotation tips.

Rotation is not my strong suit, or at the least, not an area I feel comfortable explaining. Help making sense out of this and putting into some sort of logical sequence would be greatly appreciated. Please comment with edits, additions and amendments.

Cheers

Rotation (Part 1)

Don’t 2v1 for the sake of “killing him faster”.

A good rule of thumb is to spend no more than 5s if you’re +1ing. Cast your cds, abilities, etc then rotate to other points that truly needs another player.

Don’t rotate to a point that isn’t yours for the sake of winning the 1v1. You’ll succeed in spending a lot of time duelling a class on a point that isn’t yours. There’s very few strategies that would warrant such a move, most know whether or not they can neutralize a point very fast but be mindful on how much time you spend on nodes you don’t own.

Don’t try to match numbers on nodes; don’t 4v2 because you’ll lose the other caps
Don’t hit on a bunker 1v1 if they own the node, if it’s theirs but you can kill him < 10s then sure

Don’t stream into a ‘zerg’ and keep dying, regroup and focus on what you have/can do

Let’s say you win the initial mid fight, you either watch for respawns to your home/mid or push far + watch respawns to match numbers. A lot of people just sit mid and lose everything in the process

If you’re losing the fight or you know it’s lost and you can peel, break off and decap a node that the enemy isn’t at if possible. If they try to zerg you then you break off again and help your team once they’ve respawned.

You want everyone doing something: if someone is staying home for a long time and no one is coming to him, it’s pretty much a 4v5 and he might as well be afk. that person even at home rather than always standing on the point that person should supervise the entrances to the spawn and there are spots near home u can stand to see where the enemy from their spawn is heading towards. Same thing applies to enemy rotations, if you notice they have a noob minionmancer at far standing on their home, you team can take advantage by simply not pushing far and winning the other 2 points 5v4

You want the most winning scenarios. an example of this is in a duel where neither side can kill each other, the one with the cap is in a winning scenario. deaths aren’t always a losing scenario because for example in foefire where it’s really hard to decap mid it’s still a winning scenario if it’s your cap and u have bunkers that keep coming that won’t die. another example is that a death means that class will be near home when spawning meaning in 15 seconds after full dead that person will be able to peel/ decap/ cap home and the person at home can leave sooner.

Cynz.9437:

MissCee.1295:

I think Anet need to be a little more transparent about what is being done with reports. We can wish I suppose.

Nothing happens. Some guy on reddit got an alt account and have been trying to get himself banned by all means. It took him half year of griefing to even get a warning.

Seriously? Or is it just an urban legend?

Anet really do need to step up their efforts. How much time and money do you have to throw at this game before Anet takes their customers seriously?

I think Anet need to be a little more transparent about what is being done with reports. We can wish I suppose.

Rotation seems to be a major stumbling block for many players. May have to try and cobble together some sort of guide separately for rotation tips.