Guild Wars 2

I gotta say, division/tier aside, it seems to me a lot of people have a lot of questions about wtf is going on with MM.

At legendary division it can easily be explained by a lack of population, but does lack of population truly account for all inequities at lower divisions? I’m not sure it does.

Even duo with within a division (difference being in tier) appears to cause volatile changes to +/- on rating points.

What kinda burns me is that Anet won’t be open. Yeah there are heaps of crybabies and trolls on the forum, but there is just as much if not more helpful and constructive feedback. Why don’t they take advantage of the biggest resource available to them; their playerbase?

Anyhoo, I’ve said farewell to competitive play this season. I am purely focusing now on how to improve my own game, since it is apparent I have to be pro league skill to carry.

I’m not aware of being able to save builds, but it would certainly be a welcome addition.

JTGuevara.9018:

This thing is a sham. Period.

The way I see it, matchmaking problems will persist if we don’t fix the root of the problem.

Stop using individual mmr for your teams. Use individual mmr only for individuals. A player with say 1500 mmr should be matched with 9 other 1500 players ONLY. This guarantees that the match is fair and balanced. I don’t care about queue times.

Also, the current system tends to work I think for 5-man only. It’s not meant for solo queue. If we want solo queue, individual skill MUST be accounted for.

+1 to infinity and beyond

Helseth is one of those people that evokes extreme reactions in people. I watched his stream today for about 1.5hrs. I can see the good and the bad of his experiment starting at bronze.

While watching, I didn’t hear him say anything about his teammates or opposition, that I myself haven’t said loud and angrily at the computer screen many many times.

There were times when errors were made that he just couldn’t compensate. To see him typing away in team chat, only to be ignored, is pretty typical of a bronze level match.

TBH after watching, I felt optimistic about my own situation. I am most definitely NOT at Helseth’s skill level. To see, at times, a player of his caliber unable to counteract pure idiocy made me feel a little less like a mere mortal.

I will be interested to see where this experiment leads, and enjoy the opportunity to watch one of the best players in the game.

JTGuevara.9018:

messiah.1908:

JTGuevara.9018:

What PvP needs is a TUTORIAL.

PvE has a tutorial, WvW has a tutorial. PVP HAS NO TUTORIAL.

the problem you cannot do fully tutorial for every scenario as there are too many variant
1. your build
2. your skill lvl
3. allies build
4. allies skill lvl
5. enemy build
6. enemy skill lvl
7. first rotation
8. outcome
9. second rotation
10. and so on …. till 15 min ends

you might do some popup quiz like if 1 in close and 2 on mid and enemy rush to mid where should you go?….. LOL

if you play dmg dealer, your enemy is winning mid and you have close where should you go

It doesn’t matter! You NEED a tutorial! Otherwise, how the hell will new players learn to play?!

Got one of those too: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known

Been asking, begging and pleading. Nothing happens.

Hey guys, it’s great to see this thread getting more exposure. If push hard enough, we might actually see something get stickied or added in game.

If you have tips/suggestions regarding rotation there is a separate thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known-About-Rotation

Rotation is not something I am confident explaining and I would really appreciate if someone could help me clean up what is there.

If anyone can help me clean this up, I would be happy to submit for use as a guide:

Work in Progress (uncompleted) rotation guide: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known-About-Rotation

steelheart.7386:

They should have had a hard reset with a fairly lengthy placement preseason. But they are too incompetent/lazy so what is easiest almost always wins. Every season should be unique. This insistence on comapring people with MMRs based on years of games versus some noob that just finished his 50th match is ridiculous. Then we have things like how much people solo and grouped in the past effecting MMRs. We all know many groups, some quite good, have a member or two that get basically carried along. A-net seems to think people’s skill levels can be determined in a fairly small amount of matches so why not hard reset and pre-season of 20-30 games. When its not onerous A-net should do whatever they can to address player concerns. I have yet to see an explanation why a hard reset of MMRs is so bad. Why not test it at least? Surely they can save the older MMR. Why not test a hard reset with a longer pre-season of placement games.

I quite like this idea.

Ranger Pets: If you have HoT you will have access to all pets available.

Not specifically class/build related, but these two threads will give you a good foundation for strategy and how Conquest all works.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known-About-Rotation

Also: http://qqmore.net/
has some great resources

DaShi.1368:

But consider it from our point of view. We don’t know if your cherry picking. We don’t know what actually happened in game. I’ve played many games where the class stacking appeared against me. Some I’ve won, some I’ve lost.

It’s good that you are doing this. I suggest putting it all together and making a strong case. Right now, as scattered and incomplete as it is, it just doesn’t seem very convincing.

I totally understand the opposing point of view. There are far too many sooky-puss crybabies on the forums. And as I said before “a lot of players, not all”. I can only speak for myself. Generally I don’t make comments on anything until I’ve the time to observe and compare and be objective.

Unfortunately I don’t have years in GW2 pvp to be able to draw comparisons, I’ve been playing pvp seriously for about 6mths. From what I’ve observed reading the forums, ranked pvp has been plagued with issues and inequities from day one. Anet have volminous amounts of constructive feedback, and yet we as players are still required to “make our case”. Doesn’t seem quite fair to me.

BrotherBelial.3094:

I must be lucky, I’ve had 2 matches where I’ve had someone out and out say they where throwing the match, both times because they felt the rest of the team where not good enough to be where they are. I agree its not nice when someone spoils the match like that. But that’s life.

I agree “that’s life” up to a point. If Anet want us to swallow the competitive pvp line, then they really should be doing more to make sure it actually is competitive. Players going afk is something that should not be acceptable to Anet, nor to any genuinely pvp player.

Having said that, I’ve had more than my fair share of matches that all I wanted to do was sit at spawn and cry.

Glael.7643:

Nice try. Also tried to communicate here and wrote Evan a PM… No response yet

Yeah, I think anyone who really cares has tried something. Every time I post on the forums I tell myself it is the last time, because nothing ever seems to happens. But hope springs eternal as they say.

DaShi.1368:

To be fair, you and others are making the accusations that the system is unfair to you. If anyone needs to provide evidence, you should. Show us your games. Let’s see all the horrible players you have to deal with, and let’s see how you respond to it in game.

I get it, it’s frustrating to be on losing streak and the last person you want to blame is yourself. But we’ve seen exaggeration over and over again on this forum. I just find it hard to believe that it is as bad as you are saying.

For a lot of players (I’m not saying all) the problem is not with accepting responsibility for your own failures or lack of skill, it is the overwhelming task of not being able to compensate for these things in others.

For example, I know that rotation is a weak spot in my gameplay. Because it is highly situational, only time and experience will help me improve. I would estimate approx 60-70% of times I make the right call, but this leaves a lot of margin for error on my part. However, if my team mates have no understanding of rotation, that means even when I’m getting it right there is more than a good chance the rest of team is not.

Another example, using players rated 1-10 (10 being awesome). Let’s say I’m a 5 and I’m teamed with four other 5’s. The odds of winning against similarly skilled players is much higher than if I were to be teamed with 3’s & 2’s. As a 5, I am skilled enough to pull my own weight, but I can’t compensate for that lack of ability in others.

Hope that makes sense, I’m a bit sleep deprived.

I searched through the website and could find no other way to communicate with Anet other than a support ticket. So I submitted this:

I would like to know what Anet is planning to do to improve the quality of matches and decrease match manipulation we are seeing in S5 PVP (Please do not refer me to the dishonor system, because clearly that is not working). Besides the forums, from which devs (pvp forum) have seemingly vanished once the shiny newness of the season wore off, I could find no other way to contact and provide feedback other than a support ticket.

As a paying customer and client of Arena Net, I believe it is a reasonable expectation that all efforts would be made to eradicate all forms of match manipulation, which by their very nature reduce the quality and enjoyment of play of others; therefore devaluing the product I have in good faith purchased.

I am not here to whinge and moan about my MMR, division placement or any other such thing. All I want (and believe I and every other pvp player deserve) is five people on each team who actually play the match. Far too many matches are being affected by players who afk shortly after the match starts, or even better, give up at the first sign of “trouble”. Occasionally these afk’ers are decent enough to actually dc, resulting in no loss of rating. However, on more than one occasion, despite a player dc’ing the match loss has also resulted in a rating point loss.

There is also the issue of matches starting without all players being loaded into the match. If either team does not have five connected players the match simply shouldn’t start. I think you will find most players would much rather return to the queue than waste 10mins in a lopsided game, especially the team that is left a man short.

Take a passing glance at the forums, you can easily see that much of the pvp community is extremely frustrated. Spend a little time in the pvp lobby and you will observe the same anger and frustration. A fair and level playing field should not be reserved for those few in the minority of Legendary Division or Pro League. The entire pvp community, at every level, deserves better.

The forums are an essential resource for feedback. It does not take a Rhodes Scholar to determine what is fact and fiction. Why so much of the feedback and suggestions is seemingly ignored is a mystery to me.

In closing, I would like to say thank you in advance for taking the time to address my feedback. I look forward to a human being’s response soon.

If I get a response I will post it here.

I’m going to resist the temptation to go on a major rant about EVERYTHING that makes me unhappy with pvp right now. The No.1 thing that is frustrating me more than anything else, is AFK players.

TBH I don’t particularly what division or tier I am in. There is always room for improvement at any level. Having said that, what I can’t improve or “carry” is someone else’s lack of motivation to play.

Sometimes they fully dc, so at least you don’t lose rating. But still, I’d much rather lose rating for a hard fought but unsuccessful match, than be bashing my head against the proverbial brick wall cos my team is effectively 4v5.

Again I’ll say I think the OP makes good points. All for attracting new blood to pvp, but let them earn their stripes in Unranked first. Ranked arena should be about your ranking, not obtaining shinies.

Anyone who truly enjoys pvp will soon learn to improve and join in the ranked matches.

I’m inclined to think comments made regarding the number of placement matches are valid. 10 matches is not enough to accurately place division. Additionally, we have gone from 6 divisions to 5. Which means there is a much broader skill range residing within bronze. This goes a long way to explaining some of the “issues” folks have encountered.

Last season was first full season I played. Starting at Amber and progressing to Diamond was not easy, and then sure was a lot of numpties in lower divisions, but it did get better as you progressed.

This season it seems, unless playing in Legendary, there is a good spattering of numpties at every level.

MM still can’t figure out that 2+ of any class is not a good composition. And so, the complaints and frustration continue.

Playing Devil’s Advocate….could it be perhaps there are not enough players in the higher tiers for MM to not stray too far from MMR range?

+1 to OP, totally agree.

For anyone who checks my post history, you will quickly realise having a tutorial added to pvp is one of my pet projects. While devs don’t seem interested in doing much to improve pvp, I believe we as a community can.

Today I started posting in lobby chat bullet points from this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known/first#post6437702

I will continue doing this every day. Maybe, just maybe, a numpty will read and become slightly less numptyish.

“Git gud & carry” is a cop out used by those who have never truly had to carry, and I for one am sick to death of hearing it.

Honestly I don’t know how good or bad I am? Maybe I truly belong in Bronze.

Before some condescending know-it-all attempts to explain MMR to me. I am perfectly aware of how mmr works, that it is dependent on the ratings of team you lose/win against compared to your own.

What I fail to understand is how it can be considered a fair system when your individual rating is based on the success or failure of four other people? Especially when you have no control over who those people.

I may be good enough to be competitive in Gold. I may even be good enough to be competitive at Platinum. One thing I know for certain, I am nowhere near good enough to carry four potatoes in Bronze.

I don’t think anyone is truly against attracting new players, pve or otherwise. The issue at hand is the skill/knowledge of players entering Ranked arena.

For most who genuinely desire competition, gold, armor, dyes, backpieces is inconsequential. More important is their rank and amount of wins.

I’m all for more players in pvp, but I would also like see a few less numpties in ranked matches.

Personally I don’t have a problem with DH/Guardian (I main mesmer). Nor do I have any problem with any other class. I agree that the classes are terribly unbalanced, but do not have knowledge of all classes to give any constructive feedback on how to fix that.

What I do have problem with, like many others, is class stacking. Two or more of any class can make a match problematic. Truly don’t understand why the same conditions for pro league aren’t applied in Ranked.

Leave Unranked and Hotjoin as they are, but when changes are made to pro league they should automatically be applied in ranked.

Sure there are people who dc deliberately, but I think more often than we realise it’s something beyond that person’s control. Dishonor as it stands I think is OK. But has been mentioned, its the afk’er that really ruin matches.

Currently I don’t see anything in place to penalise afk. Dunno about you guys, but this season I’ve seen more afk in a couple of weeks than I had in the past few months. It is an issue which needs to be urgently addressed.

Matches affected by DC’s etc don’t count on yr leaderboard total, hence the discrepancy.

I’m getting a bit ticked off with my comments being quoted and referred to as a “pro” player. First off, I am stuck in Bronze. (Diamond last season in my first season to play). Secondly if you check my post history, you will see clearly I have never claimed to be anything other than someone who tries to do their best.

It seems to me that if some players put as much effort into improving their game as they do into these forums we might actually have more “pro” players.

fishball.7204:

MissCee.1295:

Annabel.5127:

Is it really too much to ask for people to not ruin the fun for those who are actually trying to enjoy season 5?

Apparently it is. Although I do think Anet need to accept responsibility for allowing afk/trolling etc to go unpunished and make it a priority to amend.

Every player at every level deserves a fair match.

Funny how NOW they’re saying the system is unfair after they got their top spots ousted. They had no problem doing this on alts clogging up the other spots for top 250 making it unfair for other players.

I think you need to check the leaderboard before you go splashing sarcasm around.

I agree with everything you are saying. Would like to add there needs to be a metric to measure/reward individual skill. Continuing to rate players based solely on a team effort is a bit a silly.

Annabel.5127:

Is it really too much to ask for people to not ruin the fun for those who are actually trying to enjoy season 5?

Apparently it is. Although I do think Anet need to accept responsibility for allowing afk/trolling etc to go unpunished and make it a priority to amend.

Every player at every level deserves a fair match.

I main a Mesmer and I’ve been utterly amazed at how many people can’t tell the difference between the player and clone in downstate. In combat I understand how it can be confusing, but it is so obvious in down state. The only reason a player wouldn’t be able to tell difference is they don’t play pvp enough or don’t care enough to learn.

Man I feel like I should this put this on a recorded loop. A few months ago we put together the basis for a what could’ve been a stickied post tutorial. Then started putting together a guide for rotation.

Original “beginner tutorial” thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known

Work in Progress (uncompleted) rotation guide: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known-About-Rotation

Most recently I’ve been trying to encourage a push to demand Anet implement some kind of tutorial here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PVP-Needs-Tutorial-pls-comment-if-agree

The forums continue to be littered with complaints and lamentations regarding the lack of skill and knowledge of the player base, yet seem to be incapable of supporting a move to compel Anet to act.

That truly sucks. I’ve got no idea why that would happen. Anet prob dont’ either.

kdaddy.5431:

Im sorry i havent PvP more but to give a heads up to everyone.

We qued together and one game we had 2druids, 1 DH. I was playing ele at mid and when anyone went down at mid i was the only person to rez. Having a druid in ranked should mean search and rescue or a DH F3 skill but all 3 would “f” button must of been broken.

Also when we had corners and Misscee was at home defending the druids and DH would run to mid and not help defend the cap point we already had.

We won the next game but It would be nice if Anet had some of the GW1 game replays because there is some issues with players across all tiers but those bronze matches stand out.

Thanks dude, totally not necessary, but much appreciated. My problem is not what division I am in or not in. I wholly blame Anet for pushing “competition” without any regard for sportsmanship or penalising kittenbaggery.

Getting sick of being told by all and sundry that the only way to progress divisions is to carry your team.

Let’s be real for a moment. I may be a high silver/low gold kind of a player (maybe). But I sure aren’t platinum or legendary skill. I play my best when my team mates are half decent, because I don’t have the necessary ability to carry potatoes.

So here I sit in bronze, playing my hardest and being rewarded with afk’s and trolls. All I see each match is stacked teams of whatever the daily achieves.

TBH I have given up on this season and it’s only been 2wks. The best I can hope to get out this is to continue to improve, work on my game and hope next season is better.

I’m just wondering if there is a way to submit an official complaint to Anet. Something other than the dumb support ticket system?

BrotherBelial.3094:

I feel your pain OP, lost 2 games back to back. Because of this also. But then I’ve won matches because of this. Sadly this will always happen, some people believe they are better than they are, they don’t realise they are 20% of a team. Everyone needs to be good to win, and stop playing because they think everyone else is a noob.

The thing they seem to forget is that they have the same mmr or close too as the rest of there team. But then these players think they are ELS pro players.

Like you, I’ve been on the receiving of a win because of afk. It never feels good to win in such a way. I would much rather win fair & square by playing better.

Not a single kitten given at this stage.

Shadowstep.6049:

Inb4 “posting false information on forums is prohibited”.

What exactly is false in my post?

Shadowstep.6049:

OP, such posts are not wanted on forums, fyi.

I care as much about what is wanted on the forums as Anet care about pvp. But thank you for the heads up.

Honestly I don’t understand why we can’t have both solo q and group q.

And it’s why I voted against solo/duo q when it got polled. I don’t see why we should have to sacrifice one for the other.

Gotta agree with Reaper. If they do give a kitten , they got a funny way of showing it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-Camel-s-Back-is-Broken

Solstace.2514:

It is extremely frustrating when you have afk players on your team. It should carry a much higher penalty especially if it’s obvious. If someone can’t be bothered to play in the match they queued up for, then they shouldn’t be able to play in the tournament at all. Plain and simple.

I couldn’t agree more. I am creeping ever closer to the school of thought GW2 pvp is broken

Despite this current season having some issues, I haven’t once complained. I hold no delusions regarding my own ability. Sometimes I play well, sometimes I play like a kittened dog. Regardless, I always do my best and play hard.

I just lost two matches, and precious mmr, because of one guy. He went afk in both matches. My team and opposition reported him from the second match. I have grave doubts, considering how often this is happening, that anything will come of those reports.

No matter your skill level, rating, division or whatever; all pvp’ers want is a fair matchup.

I really love playing pvp in GW2, but I’m asking myself how much longer I can continue supporting a game which shows such blatant disregard to quality for its playerbase.

TheMountain.6204:

MissCee.1295:

You feel no need to keep playing, yet apparently felt the need to come announce it on the forums.

He is giving honest feedback which should be appreciated. What he is stating is actually how I feel. I stopped playing after I got the final reward. I admit, I did finally log in and do a few more recently out of boredom but after getting all the rewards and dealing with a faulty system, the motivation is low to none now.

There already a number of threads regarding the disparity in need vs supply of Ascended Shards of Glory.

You feel no need to keep playing, yet apparently felt the need to come announce it on the forums.

How many threads and how many different ways can the same thing be said?

Crab Fear.1624:

When any of you started, did you have a tutorial? If so, did it make you a better player? I am talking about this game specifically. If I recall correctly at the beginning of matches there are instructions.

I’ve been playing for just on 12mths. My introduction to pvp was a guildmate taking me into Stronghold. Fortunately for me a couple of guildies played MOBAS and were able to give me some of the basics. The rest I had to learn from being abused or finding guides/videos on the internet.

When coming to the PVP forum I was disappointed at what little information there was for a new player.

What you are asking for, is in essence, for a secondary map mechanic to require team effort. How will we change the treb on Kyhlo or Skyhammer so they require more than one player?

Nightshade.2570:

Add a Play against NPCS mode. Where people can team up to play against random NPCs, I would like to play against Tybalt, and Nikka, all of those guys from stronghold

LoL, Overwatch etc have a bot/npc mode for newbies to try out and learn. It has mentioned many many times on the forums here. Truly don’t understand, why after almost 5yrs, GW2 doesn’t have something similar.

I thought the AG weekly tournaments had ceased, but I could be wrong.