Guild Wars 2

[Cleasing Ire]?

If you want to go condi in pve, sinister stats(power, precision, condi dmg) is by far the best way to go. This will give you the best results on the condi route, wonder no one mentioned it before. Downside is you need to craft it, so you need leatherer 400.

I wouldnt recommed running dire for grenades, at least not in zerg. Your direct damage will scale close to zero and condis arent that good anyway for blob vs. blob. They will get cleaned way too fast with all those guards and eles.

If you dont want to fight on the first frontline, i would go much more offensive. I usually run full zerk when i zerg, and hardly ever die. Just stay a little behind your frontline.

naphack.9346:

Shadelang.3012:

Maybe if they had only changed the condition aspect. So that condition heavy classes would be able to reliably control/weaken them long enough to destroy them seeing as how condi classes were the only builds truly countered by turrets.

Are you mad?
Condi classes were the number one counter to turreteers.
You don’t need to destroy the turrets if you can just walk onto the point and watch the engineer keel over. Both trapper rangers and condi engis were capable of doing this without problems.
Necromancers had problems 1v1 against turreteers, but that wasn’t because turrets were too strong, honestly, it was because necromancers currently are in a borderline unplayable state.

The only builds, which had problems against turreteers were all those celestial builds and their lookalike, the meditation guardians. The power of those healy, spammy, tanky builds was too low to affect the turrets, which were immune to crits, while their condis were’t potent enough to burn through 27k health. Now any celestial build can just walk up to a turret, slap it once and watch it go down from the combination of a crit and a random condition proc.
Also thieves, but that was more due to turrets having instant reactions to shadow steps and stealth, while being immune to blinds… And thieves have problems going up against any engineer, making a single engineer build more vulnerable to thieves by allowing turrets to be affected by blind won’t fix the fundamental problem here.

So no. Unless you count celestial builds as condi classes, turreteers were never strong against any condi build. The whole build has one way to cleanse two conditions and one way to get rid of movement-impairing conditions.
A ranger can just play cat-and mouse on point, because the engineer can’t use overcharged shot without risking to be stuck in an entangle for an eternity. Of course, bad rangers open the fight with entangle, get blown out by an overcharged shot and then complain on the forums.
The few trapper rangers, I encountered when playing turreteer always melted me on point… I have never seen 27k health go down so fast. That was the few trappers, which despite literally every matchup featuring multiple shoutbows still dared to bring a trapper.

So trappers have been a hard counter because you liked to take a bath inside their traps? This isnt a hard counter, this is just no smart play by engi. Even turret engis dont have to stand on point at all costs, you know?

Also cele engi have been way better to kill turret engis than condi ones, because cele engi was able to kill rocket/rifle turret, instead to condi ones. If the turret engi was played by a descent player, chances for condi engi been very bad.
There simply wasnt a way to survive all that cc over long time(sentinal amulett), without killing at least rocket turret. Condi engis couldnt, or couldnt do it fast enough to even justify their attack.

If theres been a hard counter, i would say berserk staff ele.

Im fine with the changes, turrets have been way to tanky for lots of specs due to their condi/crit immunity. You know, theres a toolkit for repairing turrets, but with the former sustain of turrets it just was never needed. I dont see a single reason why turret engis should not need the tools anet gives them to handle their turrets. Maybe the repair effect could be increased a little, but turrets shouldnt be a very effective build anyway.

Its by far the lowest risk build, it doesnt even participate on the game for real. Run to a point, bunker it and never ever rotate nodes, like ANY other spec have to. Damage is dealt by AI that does not scale with your stats, so just run the most tankiest amulet available. This was straight brainless and should be low risk, low reward.

The only way to balance them that comes to my mind, is by balancing the repair effect of toolkit. So turreteers have to make discisions, like placing turrets on the node to hold it while repairing, or place them outside for better sustain, with the drawback to leave the node for repairing them. If this would be balanced in a proper way, i could think of turrets beeing a usefull and fun way to play.

Yay, turret-teers have been transformed to turret-tears, i like!

Former turretteers now need to use their wasd movement keys, i guess this completly overstrains them. xD

Remember that medkit provides descent swiftness uptime as well. Maybe it will be worth using after the redesign, maybe not. Let the update take place and we will see.

I agree.^^ I tried your build with vapirism as well, but it annoyed me much more instead of helping me. Then i stumbled over runes of the afflicted. Based on the builds theme they should be a must have, and the deathnova while going down even scales with “Always prepared”.))
This was fun as hell, but in the end, i think there are many more effective runes for this.

The build itself worked quite ok for me, even tho i didnt went down a lot. Anyway, i just feel naked without toolkit and HT. :P
At the end, i crippled your build to some weird glass cannon SD variant to die more often, which worked quite well(the build, not the dieing). I was really suprised how hard you hit in traited downstate and how easy it is to get up with elixir r + traited downstate. I never traited downstate before, so thanks for the inspiration to try this trait. I will stick to my builds, but it has been a fresh and very funny experience.

ArrDee.2573:

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

ArrDee.2573:

Also Throw Wrench will not remove any conditions off you if thrown in a light field!

This is wrong, it does remove conditions if your wrench hits.

Nope! I tested it a long time ago and tested it again just now!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Hmmm, create a support ticket tho, seems like you need a new wrench.

I just tested it as well and it removed conditions whenever my 100% projectile finisher hit.

Waaaah, zombies!!! Haha, i like that idea very much.

Maybe runes of vampirism would be a better option, so you get some room to time your revivals? You could even throw your elixir r while youre in mistform, since toolbelt skills remain active.

Noha.3749:

A tip though is remove speedy gadgets from your traits, you dont have any gadgets, and toolbelt skills doesnt rely on gadget CD reduction!

Hes running speedy gadgets for A.E.D heal.

ArrDee.2573:

Also Throw Wrench will not remove any conditions off you if thrown in a light field!

This is wrong, it does remove conditions if your wrench hits.

Acid bomb is also a usefull gap closer. Theres a hotkey to turn 180 degrees, so you can turn → acid bomb → turn to do a 900 range forward leap, like a mini version of rocket boots. In pvp, this will often make the difference about getting your node neutralized or not, but can be useful in wvw/pve as well(dungeon skipping parts i.e.).

Super elixir also provides a light field, which cleans 1 condition on impact. You can further combo finish it with projectile finishers for even more condi remove. Super elixir + throw wrench for example will remove 3 conditions from you.

I think youre gimping yourself with those turrets. Engi has far better choices for SD than napalm, so youre basically running this for 1 extra explo finisher, which simply isnt worth it. Remember you have a party, anyone can blast your combofields and any descent player will do.

And for pvp, this cant be viable. You dont even run a stun break nor any defense at all. Any thief will instgib you without a chance to react, other non bunkers will this do as well.

Sry for honesty, but i think its a very bad build. SD isnt real good for pve anyway, except for open world trash mobs, thats where it really shines.

I made a build focused on dodging when rune of evasion came out, which is lots of fun to play at WvW roaming:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNAR8YjMq0ya/KOsw1igDhqZJ8B8CgfVhz3tFyYiFmJB-TBCFABAcEAKU9nrUCikyv00Nc9+DJ8AAW4iAEA4A43fz3+Gc+5nf+5n3v/+7v/+bpAqSoF-e

Each dodge will give you:
-protection
-might
-fury(10 sec cd)
-swiftness(10 sec cd)
-removes blind + poison(10 sec cd)
-cripples nearby foes(9 sec cd)

A base endurance regeneration of +65% plus energy sigills guarantees LOTS of dodges combined with the weapon skill evades, and both weapon skill leaps(both with reduced CD) provide mobility thats simply over the top. Keybind your 180° turn and you will compete with fiery greatswords mobility. You can even add in signet of the hunt if youre a lazy one, i however prefer some more “Oh kitten”-buttons on this. Infight you will have perma swiftness anyway, due to dodge/weaponswap effects and the birds screech.

3 points in beast mastery is another personal preference, i simply love running that combo with 2 birds. They hit like a truck with this great fury uptime(fortifying bond) and pets prowess. Good protection uptime plus the reduced pet swap CD will keep them alive easiely. I just think the choosen pet traits simply synergize really really well with this build, but feel free to adjust them to your personal preference. However i recommend using both birds, for dealing the max. pressure while dodging around.

For sure my build has weaknesses too, its full zerk without too much condiremove(healing spring, signet of renewal, dodge effect), so better dodge all hard hitters. If you get used to, the defense really isnt that bad like the full zerk equip looks like. Also remember that 12 sec cd block on greatsword and your superior mobility for disengaging.

Anyway, its a fun build, but a descent one.

Royal.2693:

Mister Fluffkin.7358:

I played GW1 PvP quite successfull(~5x silvercape + many more pooptrims, r11 HA, r9 gladiator), so i think im able to give an founded opinion on this(not for the flexing guys, so dont blame me nerd xD).

That is not very successful. R11 HA was subpar, and silvercapes (top 16 in monthly tourneys) wasn’t too hard to achieve. 5 wins – 2 losses would guarantee it.

Anyway, “cheese” builds in GW1 were hated and players who played them would get trashtalked constantly, while in GW2 Abjured and others with celestial cheese builds get praised so much like they are the best. It is very different mentality, and most top GW1 players always refused to play cheese builds.

Youre exactly the guy why i wrote this, to strengthen that im able to evaluate about topic. You already disqualified yourself with your kind of talking, because it sounds like you either never played mAt before gw1 was dead or youre one of the Rebel Rising[rawr] guys…

5wins 2losses for silver? Dude, casual pvp guilds didnt even qualified for mAt. You had to play lots of aT´s vs. really good guilds before, to even get the qualificationpoints to compete at mAt. The participation alone separated the good from the bad guilds, all mAt guilds have been successfull…

I dont know about your benchmarks, but what isnt succesfull about getting a 5:2 vs. similar skilled opponents and finishing mAt´s in the top16 of the world? 0o
Anyway, i told its not for the flexing, but to strengthen my opinion on topic.

And what are celestial cheese builds? xD
Sure, its a very good amulet, but that isnt making a build cheese. Plus any Abjured player would problably wreck you with any amulet you “allow” them to play. Im no fanboy by all means, but those guys absolutly earn to be on top. Whats so hard about respecting their performance, no matter what amulet they run? 0o

I played GW1 PvP quite successfull(~5x silvercape + many more pooptrims, r11 HA, r9 gladiator), so i think im able to give an founded opinion on this(not for the flexing guys, so dont blame me nerd xD).

First of, i dont think the meta in GW2 is any more cheesy than its used to be in GW1. I can remember so many builds that have been abused in all GW1 gamemodes(basically any straight spikebuild i.e.). The big difference is, a very well played balanced build(which was considered the most skillfull) is potentionally able to beat any cheesy one, due to more flexibilty and possible splits.
GW2 has cheesy builds as well, but i think they arent that present like in GW1. I know there are lots of turreteers around, but thats usually 1 of 5 in a group. While in GW1, the whole teambuild was cheese.

You cant compare both games anyway. GW2 is so much more about rotations than team comps, like byob(bring your own build) in GW1. Whoever splits the best usually wins. Of course you need to win your fights as well, but movement is just so much more fundamental compared to GW1. Its like byob vs. byob, splits everywhere. And this is what i think makes GW2 harder to play. Everyone needs to take descisions where to go all match long, while in GW1, 6/8 Teammembers usually just followed the frontline.
About personal fighting skill, i think both games are quite on pair. There are easy builds and difficult ones, a gw1 blind bot i.e. doesnt need more or less skill than a turreteer.

All in all, i think GW2 needs a tiny bit more skill to play because of GW1 castbars(much easier to watch than animations) and the addressed spliting because of conquest mode. Most GW1 players i know hate conquest, but i personally like it a lot. But i liked byob in GW1 a lot as well.

People talk about thiefs like they´re playing a warrior. Thief is a very weak choice for beeing the “1on1 guy” in your team, but thats not their job anyway.

What makes a good thief is their movement. Neutralizing uncontested nodes to force majorities in teamfights, thats what thief is mostly about. Sadly 90% of the thiefs around try to play it like a warrior which may work at lowest tier, but thats an illusion!

Btw, any zerk build will look good against newbies because they simply dont know how to avoid your bursts. Thats nothing exclusive to the thief class…

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

MrForz.1953:

Celestial, lazy. I’m continuously baffled by what the meaning of this set has become since it existed. o.o

it means your options are:

1) Run full zerk and have no defense, die in one hit, etc. Your pugs contribute no damage so you having to do this for like 5 minutes every encounter and if you mess up once you die.

2) Run full tank and just facetank everything. Your pugs still do no DPS so now no one is doing anything, and you take 20 minutes per encounter and then someone has to drop because his parents are calling him for dinner or his baby just woke up or he has class or whatever, then the pugs you get to fill the slot kick you all and sell the instance.

3) You run Celestial and facetank everything and you still have some DPS, so things still die. Not as fast as if you were zerk but you can facetank and still be able to kill things so maybe the dungeon will actually get done without requiring you to be a massive tryhard.

Obviously #3 is the best choice for pugs.

Im running full berserk in all types of pve up to fractals 50. Believe me, there are like 10-15 enemies in the whole game that are able to 1-shot you, and 90% of them will 1-shot you with celestial as well. Also, these enemies are pretty easy dodge-/blockable if you know them, so better run tool kit i.e. than running defensive stats, this will increase your sustain much better.
In pve, theres absolutly no reason to run anything except full zerk…

And dont get me wrong, im not one of those “15k ap, full zerk only”-guys. I personally would love to see reasons to equip more defensively, but gw2´s pve content simply dont offers a single one.

I got a celestial set(and lots of others, i love to try out stuff) as well, but the damage is such a desaster compared to zerk, i wouldnt recommend it. The only thing thats comparable(superior in different scenarios) is sinister/rampager.

This of course is only about pve, in pvp/wvw celestial is of course super awesome!

Dimes.6024:

I don’t see why you wouldn’t be pwned in 5 seconds if mesmer, ranger, thief or necro focuses you.

Too little defense and not too much offense. High risk low reward.

That sums it up well. You´re running berserkers amulett without a single stunbreak, this simply cant work against any half descent opponent. Your melandru runes/FT5 wont catch up on that.

And for this extremly poor defensive options, you totally lack in offense. Sure, you might burst one if you catch him unlucky and unload all you got, but that wont happen a lot.

Maybe mix in a support guard like people used to in the past. They arent seen much atm, but still offer all those boons/tools to dominate team fights. I personally would like to see their comeback.

manveruppd.7601:

Thing is, different game modes isn’t intrinsically bad: it prevents certain builds from dominating. It’s what I loved about Heroes Ascent in GW1, that you had to progress through all sorts of different game modes to get to Hall of Heroes, and that stopped people from making cheesy builds that were only good at one thing.

Honestly, HA have been the grandfather of cheese builds, lol. IWAY, VIM-Way, Bloodspike, Contagion, etc. etc… About 5% of the teams played honorful balanced, the rest played pure cheese. Thats why all serious teams played GvG instead of HA.

Anyway, im on the same opinion about stronghold. It absolutly needs a seperate queue!!!

I dont like skyhammer either, but leaving the match cant be the solution. What if i dont like forest map? Other may dislike foefire? The map is in choice of the players, so take whatever is choosen and try your best. Its a mans world dude!

Anyway, if you totally cant stand skyhammer at all, go ranked or hotjoin.

Looking at other classes blocks, a 20 second CD block isnt that special. Warrior offhand sword, ranger greatsword, mesmer offhand sword, they all have a a 15 second CD block, untraited. Traits will improve them to 12 seconds CD.
Ok, all of them block just 1 time in case of melee attacks, but therefore they offer strong counterattacks plus a second offensive mechanic, engies toolkit block doesnt. Engis also have to sacrifice an utility slot for it, while the other classes get those blocks on weapon skill.

Im fine with it.

Depending on map and team comps, e-gun is very viable. It offers good mobility, best cleave dmg(#4 hits pretty kitten celestial), good condi remove and lots of poison. All on top of a relative low CD stunbreaker(main reason to take 1 of these 3) that also offers long lasting regeneration. Tell me whats bad about this? There are tons of scenarios its superior to slick shoes/elixier s…

With e-gun you simply lack the superior disengage option of slick shoes/elixier s, thats why the other 2 are seen much more. I cycle between all 3 of them, just depends on team and map.

As for your slick shoes issues, you might laugh but believe me, its much better to stand still than to panic react/moving around like a chicken. Stand still, blind/block/daze/kd your opponent, than dodge out as soon as the oil beneath your soles lifted. Just make sure hes in front of you when attacking so you dont turn around into the next kd. Overcharged shot is a pretty good example for getting out of oil in 1on1. Wait till hes in front of you, shoot him and slick shoes is wasted.
But this is all just about having your defensive skills on CD. Every class has lots of stuff to handle slick shoes. Stability, ranger lightning reflexes, immunity skills against the burst, leap skills, and the list goes on and on. Slick shoes is just another tool to initiate your bursts, but by no means an guaranteed kill…

Btw, signet of air(ele) is the shortest cooldown stunbreak in game.

I think slick shoes is pretty much in line with elixier s and e-gun. E-gun is the best 1on1 option with the most utility. Elixier s is the best teamfight option for save stomps and disengages. Slick shoes is kinda right between, with additional CC plus the shortest stunbreak, but less utility than e-gun and worse disengage than elixier s. I think all 3 have their uses and are pretty much on par.

I dont see guaranteed kills due to slick shoes either. There are also other options to handle slick shoes than blinks or stability. You can simply stand still(maybe pop a block i.e.) and wait it out, if you dont move(!). Plus im very sure you can dodge over if the oil is around you and not right under your feet.

No offense, but this sounds like a l2p issue if you die each time you get slick shoed… 0o

Its a pretty casual bug, happens a lot and to each class, not only engies. They are simply downed somewhere else, the game just shows you a wrong position. I guess its due to the bad latency/lag/server merges that came with the 2nd or 3rd last patch. Even f2p games have more server power than gw2…

Same for germany, to all of my group…

Additionally skill effects are not shown sometimes. Mesmers timewarp, or engies freez nades i.e. They hit and work, but you cant see the effect/explosion in game. We asked in TS everytime the timewarp wasnt visible to someone and all others confirmed. If it was unvisible to one, it was unvinsible to all.
I don´t know if its due to the crazy lags last weeks or not, but it began at the same time.

Imo, its time to play unranked when you´re familar with your character/build/spec. Hotjoin is like getting used to your spec, its not about winning the match/competetice evironment(see 4on5´s, winning team joiners, etc. etc.). If you want win orientated gameplay/improve your gameplay, go unranked. Theres no other place to do.

Just do your best to win the match/understand the gameplay, and everyone should be fine with you. If you´re not even used ro your spec, better go hotjoin. You won´t help your team if your skillbar is taking all your attention.

In general, the most mobile player should decap(situationally full cap) far when its undefended. If someone is camping it, you should preferable outnumber the opponent somewhere else.

Even for matchup, its an pretty good move to push far from the start, as long as far is neutral and your team isnt outnumbered/dieing somewhere else. If your team is struggling, you should usually fall back and outnumber the opponent over there. Dieing far is of cause very bad for your team and shouldnt happen. Same goes for outnumbering the far defender without killing him quickly.

Thats why every premade is playing with a thief. They´re absolutly superior for this job.

Unfortunatly, pings are super bad in gw2, thats usual. Latency has been quite good for the first year after release, but its getting higher and higher. I guess they started with much more server power and paced it down over time.
Maybe because they didnt reached their expected pool of active players, so they throttled them down? Or its because of the megaservers(do they influence the spvp?)?

I dont know, just spectations. But its fact(for me and all the people im regulary playing with) that latency got much higher since release.

Theres no/very few rubberbanding and stuff, but the overall latency is crazy bad. I dodged like a young god back in the days, nowadays im having troubles with earthshakers… :P

Or im just getting old… /jk

BTW: Im running an optical fiber cables connection(10 Megabyte DL a sec!) and in any other game, my ping is always top3 on server.

I only played it with full team so far and fun was ok, but if i imagine to be on those random groups we´ve fought(and i usually play solo a lot), i cant believe its any fun until poeple learn to regroup and zerk in there.

We won all matches like 500-0 just because they´ve been outnumbered in any situation. 1 or 2 first kills and you´ve won to those randoms. Everybody respawning seems to think like “Oh, im gonna run to help those 3 half deads left of us on the other side of the map”, but when they arrive 2 others already died. Instead of waiting for them to respawn.

Well, this will not happen in high ranked matches, but its what i´ve experienced there so far(team of us have been in mid class ranking): Completly one sided matches.

I know, people will learn and adept to this, but how does a match of better players will look like on courtyard? 1-2 quick kills for 1 team and the rest of the dieing team can only try to kite them till regroup. But at least 1 more will die while kiting, forcing the respawning ones to wait for respawns of the later died, so they need to stay in base. While the other team waits in front of their base for respawn or zerkhunts the left one or two…

I simply can´t imagine this to be any exciting at all, and in my opinion, there needs to be some tactical component like conquest in this game, to force teams to split.

mikeew.8607:

Holl I can tell you from personal experience that its really up to you. There is no great hinderance in distance because in any spvp and tpvp you should not be chasing off point anyways. If they want to run let them. maintain the point and with bombs you have the best way of doing so. I typically run grenades but that is just a personal preference. I have run a triple kit with bombs and really enjoyed it. gives you more ranged as well but do what you enjoy not what ppl tell you. The minute you start to worry about what others have to say on how you should play is the minute you stop enjoying the game for yourself.

Sorry, but these are terrible advices.

Chasing people off point is exactly what you should do if your team has the upper hand, you just need to do it wisely. And letting them run half dead while the node is yours, is obviously some of the worst things you can do…

On topic:
Buildwise i recommend to get used to nades, if you plan to play the “most effective” builds. There simply isnt any build that wouldnt profit by swapping nades in(turrets aside). Remember youre forced to go 6 into strength as well for nades, so this is already very build defining. This might be not cool, but its the truth this is the only way to go to get the most versatile and powerfull builds.

Anyway, play what you enjoy and if youre going for bombs, i recommend to check out slick shoes. They will help you a lot landing your bombs plus giving you a good escape tool. There are lots of builds that can work out well, but the better your opponents are, the more you will see the need for nades.

Better wait for the update before complaining. Many players who didnt played for some time will relog shortly before update, play 1 match to regain their rating that dropped by decay, so the leaderboards will look completly different anyway…

Im GW1 Veteran too, i loved it till death and put many many more hours than 2k into pvp. Its indeed some of the best gameplay concepts ive ever seen, but i have to strongly recommend to give GW2 PvP a bigger try. Its great as well, just in a different style that you need to get used to.

And IMO, capture maps is simply what fits this game best. Deathmatch just dont work in here, there needs to be some tactical component that forces the teams to split, otherwise it will result in a braindead zergfight, what isnt much exciting. Learn to rotate properbly, perfect your character handling and you will have lots of fun.

And honestly, its not so different to GW1 GvG Byob playstyle, even coordinated split builds felt pretty similar(forcing your opponents to split, creating majorities and stuff). Theres just not that big team sustain due to a backline/lots of rezz skills and those wear down fights, its simply much more fast paced.

Im really hyped, these are great improvements to pvp! Anet is back again!

As someone mentioned before, i also hope ladders are visible ingame. But either way, this sounds great!

Who cares? He will drop in leaderboards anyway if he isnt playing more matches.

Had the same issue yesterday. After ~10 dc´s/recounts for matchup on Legacy of Foefire, it finally put me in, alone. I 3-capped to end it, then 2 others joined at 250-0. Later more and more came in, till it was 3 vs 5. Like hotjoin, join whenever you want! xD

Today instead, it kinda worked and all matches have been 5on5, but with a ping like 1000. No rubberbands and stuff, but with a latency beyond good and evil. Waiting 1 sec. for a skill to fire isnt much fun either…

I agree on the balance and game mode(both very ok for me), but totally disagree on OP´s suggestions.
Esport isnt build by streaming, esport is build by competition. And wherever esport is, streaming, competent players and all that will follow by themself. They´re like flies, what we need is the s**t to attract them.

First of, we totally lack a serious ladder. In highest ingame format(tpvp), premades are fighting randoms, how can this ever be esports? Give us a serious guild ladder for premades only!

Secondly, tournaments are plain nonsense without ingame qualifying. In the past, we forum voted an allstars team or registered quickly on external websites to compete at tournaments… 0o
Qualifying totally has to be ingame, anything else is plain nonsense!

We need a serious qualifying system(team ladder) like every sports/esporst has. Tpvp ladder for qualifiying, monthly championships for the honor and big rewards like unique titles and stuff.

Dude, play whatever you want, thats what skills/traits are made for. But we all know turret engi, so don´t tell us about high skill ceiling. Of course a good player does better on turret engi than a bad one, but thats primarily because of better dodges/rotations(we heared youre able to move!^^).

Where does the “high skill ceiling” come from? By planting your turrets with gaps between? By managing your cc´s for most uptime? By picking up your turrets before they get crushed from distance to “micromanage” your cd´s? Thats all a kitten compared to any other non AI build! Low skill floor and low skill ceiling, thats what it is. I mean, you dont even have a weapon swap, this alone lowers the skill floor into the dumbest. There hardly are any discissions you have to take while playing, neither in fight or OOC. Its simply brainless…

But turret engi also brings huge disadvantages with non existing mobility and team fight capability, so im personally hardly ok with turret engi. I just hate to get matched vs. 2 of them.
But anyway, i agree that something should be done with them, because its just no fun to 1on1 against and its simply way too effective in 1on1 for the very low skill floor.

BTW: While writing this post, i just got a genius idea where anet could patch turrets to :
Lower their life hardly and buff the capability of repairing your turrets with toolkit, i.e. a better repair aa, a “turret repairfield” with box of nails, a short time immunity on active skills to resist aoe and something like that. Thats how turrets could be a blast to play, where you constantly need to micromanage your turrets to keep them alive. Of course cd´s/dmg would need to be adjusted till its balanced, so dont tell me this would be op and stuff, its just a random idea how turrets could work in my opinion. Good one?

I don´t care whatever you play, but you seriously tell us your build is quite skillfull because you´re moving? Hahaha!

Evan Lesh.3295:

Here are some more questions to answer if you are experiencing lag spikes:

1. Does the lag only happen while you’re in a PvP map? Does it also occur in the PvP lobby? Other maps?
2. How long does the lag spike last? Does it ever clear up?
3. Of your last 5 GW2 play sessions, in how many of them did you experience lag?
4. Are there specific times of day when do or you don’t experience lag?
5. When do you remember first experiencing lag of this severity in GW2?
6. Do you also experience lag playing other games? NCsoft games like Wildstar?
7. Do you live in NA or EU?
8. Are you playing on NA or EU servers?
9. Was your account ORIGINALLY created on NA or EU?

1. Just on PvP maps
2. About 4-5 secs, often resulting in multiple dcs(~5/10 players dc)
3. 3/5, lags happen at 4 of 5 players on my team at the same time for the same duration
4. Any day, any time
5. Each time after patches
6. Not playing anything else
7. EU
8. EU
9. EU

And its not only massive lag spikes, its bad latency at all. Just swap some weapon kits on engi and you will feel/see the delay. This is freaking unplayable since patch, when will this finally get fixed? Do we have to wait till next feature patch?

Regards,
a angry customer

Julie Yann.5379:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Julie Yann.5379:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

mtpelion.4562:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

mtpelion.4562:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Thieves and mesmers also cannot unload significant damage every 8 seconds at a great distance from that range without significant forethought/tactical thinking, which is the focus of my argument.

Neither can Rangers. You have to wait 48+ seconds for the CDs to recharge that allow you to unload significant damage via Rapid Fire.

A full zerk ranger’s rapid fire is significant damage. We can discuss buffing that even more with Signet of the wild another time, but let’s keep this on level ground first.

A full zerk anything in PvP is a non-factor. They die if you breathe in their direction (that’s why they are called “glass cannons”… lots of damage potential but super easy to break when hit).

If full zerkers are regularly giving you problems in PvP, you need to get more experience in PvP because you are doing something wrong.

If someone has a position advantage, you should be countering that with a push, a pull, or a different position of your own.

I do not have a problem with Rangers in pvp. I ‘have a problem’ with the ease of which they can be effective, as I stated before. And, also as I mentioned before, being able to dole out reasonable damage from a perch that is difficult to access, while pushing away any classes that attempt to get near you requires very little skill.

Warriors do not have pushes or pulls. None that can be done from long range at least.

I’ve been dealing with these rangers all kittening night in PvP. All they do is climb up a ledge over looking a point and pew pew pew ftw. It’s really lame and toxic gameplay. It really sucks as a warrior cause our pushes and pulls have a short range. By the time you get up there you have -50% health and 10 stacks of vulnerablitlity. The only real option is to go fight somewhere else. I hope Anet nerfs the kitten out of those builds in 6 months.

So…why haven’t you been on that ledge awaiting their attempt to be up there? If you know they’re going there, ambush them and take them out while they’re up there.

1. I suck at jps
2. The time I waste waiting for said ranger who may or may not show up is time where I am not doing anything productive for the team.
3. All the Ranger has to do then is pew pew me from down below at 1500range.

Do you have any other smart strategy to suggest?

In a teamfight, someone in your team should be able to melee him. If no one does, take the initiative! Even in rangers focus, any gap closer plus a dodge/block should get you quite saveley into melee range, and LB is pretty weak in there. You basically take them the ability to weapon swap.

In a 1on1, just get off point and line of sight if you cant beat him up. You don´t need to stand on point if its yours.^^ No offense man, but thats not about rangers, thats a general l2p issue if you just camp in LoS till death. This counts for every class.

On topic: I personally think rangers are ok now. They definetly are quite powerfull if no one disturbs them, but if someone does, they´re quite weak. Whats about high ranked tourneys? I would like to know if they´re played there, i hardly estimate so. The better the players, the more weak is LB ranger in my opinion. And more people will learn to handle them over time. I see them more as a short time trend for the moment, but well, haven´t played that much since patch.

Your EG #5 removes 1 condition right on impact, lot of people dont know this because its not mentioned in the description(at least not in the german one, dunno about the english). Plus you can projectile finish in the combofield afterwards to remove even more condis as you mentioned.

But in PvE, im honestly fine with the condition remove of healing turret in 99% of time. You usually dont need any more removes, but if you do in certain situations, EG #5 should be enough. There arent many conditions in PvE, specially dps ones.

For PvP(dunno whats your post about) youre right, engi is lacking condition remove. But thats something we have to deal with, picking more condi remove(i.e. Elixier C or CF 409) will make your build much less competetive than dealing with the fact that this is our biggest weakness. Better take sigil of generosity instead if you think you need to, so you arent crippling your build this way.

I agree with the balance, was ok before patch and after patch as well. It only shifts things up. But my opinion to become successfull is quite different:

To become esport, we first need a serious tournament system like in gw1. Daily automated tournaments to qualify for a big monthly tournament with unique prices, thats what we basically need. Something to compete with others in a serious environment.

The foundament needs to be done. Casters, viewers, community tourneys, maps, modes and all that stuff are just nice addons in the end, and will follow on their own by success.

Maybe consider celestial?
Not that good for pve, but way better than knights or soldiers.

Dsquaredcri.9421:

http://www.twitch.tv/dsquared89
Watch me playing there are 3 teamq videos then you’ll understand how to stealth why stealth how to dont lose stealth and why iam useful. You will not see nowadays engis play as good as you’ll see on my twitch, dont you?

You really need to get down your high horse dude. xD

Theres absoultly no intend to flame you or something like that, but i checked out your vids, and honestly, this is solid average.
While im fine with most of your rotations and movement in general, your dodging is some of the most weird ive seen so far. Youre in a 1on1, putting supply crate on your foe or stun him with shield #4. First thing you do after stunning him: dodge. Or in teamfights: no one is even looking into your direction, but you just burn all your dodges just for movement(???), getting shield bashed and eviscerated afterwards. I dont wanna say im dodging each skill i should, but if you claim to be the best, you should definetly improve this a lot(maybe then you dont even need 2 stunbreakers anymore and get room for nades?). And lay down that arrogance plz, because this is nothing but embarrassing. Or dont show us your vids if you wanna brag like that, maybe youre a bit more convincing then. :P

Besides that, just try grenades dude, there are many reasons each top tier engi is playing them.
And btw: Your big idol Teldo(who indeed played very well) used grenades quite often as well, and im 100% sure he would use them nowadays as well. You know, metas are changing from time to time.

Haven´t seen any top tier engi playing without nades since ages, while bombs are seen in like 10% of the specs. If you wanna be useful, go nades!

Check out ToL quarterfinals for example. Every single engi used nades, 1 of them nades + bombs. The weakness of nades you talk about stands in opposite to like 20 pros compared to bombs, you might should mention this as well…

J envy.5270:

Fluffkin…..hold on there buddy, replying to hvarans post won’t solve anythign your both in the wrong here.

Anyway, Idk how extensive some of you are in playing engi, but i personally played engi since beta, played PVE with 19k AP, champ genius in tpvp, wvw zerging and roaming rank800+, I have wasted hundreds of gold working on every possible legit good build…3.5k hrs on engi alone…..and I must say grenades alone does not make engi good, sure it’s great but not all the time.

Static discharge is still good for sniping people, it’s still a legit build, don’t need grenades for it. I have tried bomb heals and honestly if you played with every trait in the class and min max with armor and weapons, you can use bomb heals for wvw with the melee/hammer train, great tagging, and if correctly traited, and right food, can withstand the hardcc that the the other Zerg gives you, often I’ve survived and stood beside the cmdr and healed him to full between water blasts and bombheals.

Eg/ft builds are still doable as well…personally I’d keep it in PVE though but with the right traits and armor/runes, it does well in PVE not the best but good alternative if you get bored with bombs and nades.

When I roam most times I don’t use grenades because no dumb roamer will stand there and take it, it’s very hard to hit from range for roaming or dueling, usually I’d go bomb kit,tool kit,rocket boots or elixir gun…..as it is harder for the enemy to read your movements, and easier to hit the enemy as well, personally grenades are good for Zerg just don’t die of retal or soloing camps, but outside that I prefer not to use them.

You are not forced to play nades, you just have to play around more with builds and you’ll find out there is more to engineer than grenades, also please do not dis other builds unless you have personally used them extensively in every facet of the game. Play how you want, your opinion is yours, but don’t impose it on others, just enjoy the game.

Well, looks like we played quite similar playtime, even tho im much more into spvp. But about testing builds and stuff, i did exactly same to you, so im quite sure my results cant be that unreliable.

Of course there are other playable options like SD and stuff and im not denying they can work. But any bomb or grenade build is able to do the same DoT(while less burst) by providing much more utility. Builds without bomb kit and nade kit are simply lacking damage, are build for full damage without much/any utility, or are straight condibunkers, which are usefull in some special cases but not overall. I wish this woulndt be the case, but its my experience. Plus nades are just better in general compared to bombs due to range, but i admit this is an arguably point. :P

BTW, atm im roaming with some SD-Grendadier with a nice mix of carrion/rampager which works like a charme, so you see im not that type of guy that sticks to the usual metabuilds or trys to claim them for the only truth.

And in general, this thread is about engis opinons about the pros and cons of our class. My one is theres hardly any competition without nades, point. Some people like them, others not. I do like them but they annoy me at high level fractals and stuff. Point.
Well, thats it for me. I admit my first posts were a bit stupidly written, but i seriously dont get it why im getting attacked in here? Its just my opinion the OP asked for, so calm down please…

Hvaran.6327:

Mister Fluffkin.7358

u can stay with whatever u want to. If u can’t play without 5 monitors adn grenades it’s your problem.
Just another noob engi.
And if we gonna discuss some “links” to builds it will take forever, cause most of them are individual we are not talking about blob guardian or ele.

Acting like a boss that knows everything and asking people to do proove for him, how the f?
Learn to play the class and learn it’s mechanics.

Oh and about thread, one of the problems beeing main engi, is noob engis arround with perplex and other sh.

What the hell are you talking about? If anyone in here is acting arrogant, its you dude!

OP asked for experiences of engis, i told him a possible downside i feel in some of GW2 game modes. I love to try out new builds and i do a lot, since engi is like my only char. And i personally came to the conclusion, that outside of open world pve and dungeons, nades are a must have in my point of view(always in case you want to build for most efficiency).
HGH Build above is a great example. I ran it quite some time with a quite similar setup, and it did ok. A week later, i switched elixier c for grenade kit and it immideatly did 3 times better. And i honestly cant hardly see any build that wouldnt improve by adding nades.

Its not that i appreciate to be “forced” to play nades, i would LOVE to see more alternatives. But this is the experience i made, if yours is another, ok(even tho i dont believe you because of all the experiences i made). No reason to call me noob, Sir Hvaran the uncultivated!

Dimes.6024:

any build without Grenader trait
SD-builds, turret builds, EG/FT builds, healing bombs build

yes nades are good in either power or condi builds, but they are not “must-have”.
also they realy suck at far distance, unless target is afk

Ah come on, i asked for strong builds. Turreteer is a joke and would probably be more viable with nades + 2 turrets. SD-Builds and EG/FT are pretty much out of competition to any build with bombs or nades. And healing bombs… well, ive never seen anyone seriously playing this is any game mode. 0o

I stay with it. When it comes to straight effectiveness(which means min. 2 kits with at least nades or bombs), theres no way around grenade kit. Maybe you can convince me that bombs work better in some types of PvE, but any build you named in here runs completly out of competition.