Guild Wars 2

This thread is still going on?

1. D/P/Staff is actually a pretty common thief duelist build that a lot of the better staff thieves were using last I played. Its vertical mobility is much less then SB but its flat ground mobility isn’t that far behind staff/SB after all if you’re running staff your are likely running bounding dodger the difference between vault and SB 5 isn’t as large as people make it sound on top of that a D/P/Staff can win a lot of 1v1s no other build can. Its not ESL but it works pretty well for solo queue.
2. Yes… you can totally shadowstep while vaulting…. OGCD skills can be used during most animations steal happens to be one of then… same concept as Eles using lightning flash while channeling earth 5(or 4… haven’t run dagger off hand in ages)
3. Vault spamming is a 1 way ticket to a free kill which is why no good thief spams vault. The best staff thieves I have seen use their evade frames more in a duel and force you to use your stun breaker followed by a instant kill. Sitting pressing 5 locks you in to an animation that you can just punish them for.
4. the steal/shadow step vault combo is meant to be punishing… d/p thieves have a similar combo which utilizes multiple animation cancels and I have seen it out damage vault. However both of these combos rely on heavy CDs and as a result work around the concept of high risk high reward. If you manage to bait them out and live you have won that fight as long as you understand how their class works and capitalize on it.
I once saw a thief fail their steal backstab combo on my teams ele out of pure bad luck ( he stole while our ele was screwing around and dodging nothing) and our ele tried to disengage….. If they blow their burst turn around and punish them for it…. don’t run away… they are spent…
It comes down to a lack of understanding of what a staff thief does, you allow them to play aggressively because you don’t capitalize on the builds weaknesses. I mean I main a condi mesmer…. staff thieves should &^*( on me but the amount of times I land a kill on one just by timing my shield 5 to sync with their animation lock is higher then the amount of times they kill me 1v1.
5. learn to utilize terrain. I often suggest new PVPers watch an older video by Helseth called Kiting like Royalty, its on Youtube, the video is old but the same general knowledge applies, it makes mention of s/d thieves, Staff thieves suffer from a lot of the same issue when it comes to movement. Enter an area where you have the advantage in the duel, kite them somewhere they can’t vault reliably.

Omatsuri.4250:

choovanski.5462:

i’ve never understood why this build doesn’t get more play. as @Trevor Boyer notes its broken as heck.

i don’t know if you’ve ever had the pleasure of fighting more than one vault thief on a team- but it’s a nightmare. you can’t dodge them both so you just insta die all the time.

try to dodge 2 warriors while they are spaming arc divider every 3 seconds. You will feel the same. Similar feelings with any 2 classes with dps builds while they are focused on you.

Because once you learn their timing you can cc lock them mid animation….. Vault thieves are pub stompers, they tear apart lower skilled players but have glaring flaws that allow higher skilled players to make quick work of them. There are good staff thieves out there but they do a lot more then spam 5 and dodge.

Sadly I think there is some stock in what OP is saying. Before I left this game at the start of the season I was holding a 60% win rate with constant all top stats as a condi mesmer….. Yes that means top healing multiple times with a meta ele on my team…. top power DPS with a power warrior on my team. A larger portion of the legend tier players and general ESL level player has given up leaving a large amount of people that just don’t stack up against the few above average players left.
Dont get me wrong there are still good players left but as someone with a friendslist of over 200 people with 100 of them being above average PVPers seeing less then 10 people online if i’m lucky says something about the state of the current remaining players.

Archon.6480:

Yeah, condi warrior seems to be the most difficult matchup for Druid right now. I think it is a hard counter to Druid. That being said, I am finding I do better when I peel away and poke them from a distance and let the pet mozy on over and bite them. You loose the point but can even up the match by pulling away.

You’ll loose every time in a fair face off on point against anyone with a moderate skill level.

Well sure but at that point its easier to just run away and help the team somewhere else as a druid. In general condi wars entire job is to live through high pressure and counter pressure other classes off point. If you arent a mesmer or power war you are going to have issues contesting against them. And to the person who said power war is better in every way then condi war…. Wut? Power war and condi war are so different they arent really worth comparing… Power war focuses on overwhelming pressure where as condi war is about sustain and attrition…. Once a power war losses their stances they are pretty much a walking target. Most warrior mains swap between the 2 builds as needed depending on the enemy comps. They have entirely different jobs and deal with different comps differently. I only have 650 games on war but I keep 2 wars just so I can swap as needed when I feel like playing mine.

Brigantia.5746:

The person above me is right. Edit out the names OP before they punish you instead :\
Anyway, added that afk player to my block list!

Ah bronze…. The innocence is adorable…… I remember the wonder years when I still believe reporting had any real effect….

I assume bronze because I dont recognize any names and there are only like 100 people in high gold-legend where I float around

but really dude sorry… Anet doesnt really care….. I mean I cant really blame them with the game hemorrhaging PVP players as it is atm

suffish.4150:

What people are saying about Druid having no chance against condi warr is not true at all. I can stalemate almost every condi warr in the game on druid when I don’t mess up and tank a mace f1 or a pin down (which you should never need to do on Druid if you play it well). Of course, you are not going to kill the warr unless you outskill them significantly, but you can definitely hold the matchup for as long as you need to if you don’t mess up.

As for what counters condi warrior, I think Mesmer is probably the best counter for it. Try to rotate into that matchup as much as you can as a Mesmer if you can. I think DH is also good against condi warr so you would be able to take the matchup on that too.

…… Druid is hard countered by condi war mate…. Being able to stall or win against someone you outplay doesnt mean your class is a good choice to 1v1 them
As for condi war in terms of 1v1 necro can if they kite well. Staff is a requirement for bypassing blocks and fear. Mes/power Dh/power war are considered the best options by most esl players i have talked to

I seem to remember them stating the reason for locking the elite spec in to the bottom trait line was for the sake of adding more elite specs each expansion so I dont think they will add any more core skills.

Of all the things that people think need to be nerfed resistance…. really? Condi revenants aside not many classes have reliable access to it for long periods and on top of that its a short duration and an actual boon that can be corrupted or straight up removed. Its less OP then half the CDs in the game and requires forethought. If you blow it too early you will just be condi bombed when it drops. I main a condi class and I dont find resistance to be anything even remotely OP….. Just a matter of CD counting. Learn what skills each class brings and pay attention to which they use in a fight.

Vague Memory.2817:

Azukas.1426:

Vague Memory.2817:

LouWolfskin.3492:

Because of the mobility a mesmer brings + portal he can go close, easily catch up to mid and go back to close without much of a problem in no time.

At least if you play the meta build

Not sure about that. The mobility of a mes is a bit of a myth compared to some other classes. Mes has a 30 sec blink skill + 25% movement speed if spec’d into chrono. Eles, warrs, rangers and thieves have far more mobility (in this case to cover greater distances in a short time) than mes in and out of combat. Portal is not carried by many mes from what I’ve seen + doesn’t help you get to mid.

Portal. They can be anywhere on the map and cover home.

This reason is probably true except about 95% of matches with a mes they don’t spec for portal. Which then makes them a relatively bad choice for mobility.

As a mes main I died a little inside to see someone type that…. if youre a mesmer…. and youre not running port…. just roll a kitten necro…. you will be much more use that way….No joke…. a mesmer doesnt bring enough to the team or to themself without portal to be of any real use. As for mobility good mesmers can about face their phase retreats constantly as well as use phase retreat to gain high ground, for example at mid in forest they can use phase retreat to instantly push them selves off of a lower level and bypass the stairs.The main reason is so they can counter a home push. If say 2 push home rather then a single person moving your team can force an outnumbered mid fight and then the mesmer can move the team back to home.

Nah I think this guy has it about right. I started this season in high plat and then have had burst losing streaks for reasons like. A warrior going far on respawn and dieing. When asked why he responds with “im just here for the rewards” Had him for 5 games in a row…… I also had people playing poorly who would explain they are just here for the ascension.Had multiple games against double ESL duos with no one even decent on my team. had a 5 game loss streak because the same troll druid AFKd in base….. I started this season pretty positive…. Now im a jaded troll who just doesnt care who ends up on 4 or 5 peoples block list a day…..

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Natto.5819:

If you want be viable, you need to buy Heart of Thorns.

he bought this game for his own enjoyment, not anyone else’s. its not his fault or problem that HoT power creep has carried everyone to the point its mandatory to play. it is sad though tht people have to be so spiteful over pixels though.

This mentality is one of the most annoying things I have ever come across in an online game. The I paid for it so I should be able to play how i want concept is about as selfish as can be when you do anything that is team oriented, even more so when you its a competitive environment. While yes you did pay money for the game, yes the game is yours but so did the 4 other people on your team. People who use the I paid for it so I can do what I want mentality deserve to be shamed and punished because in all reality they are the ones being selfish and rude in this situation.

Nickzor.2453:

Hello Lord Kittykittymeowmew Mesmer main mid tier plat here. In general I have the same issue of teams that cant win team fights that I give them outnumbered either by instant wipes via moa or kiting 2 on far. As a mesmer once I blow all my shatters and get a kill or 2 I generally feel pretty useless in team fights so I go on rotation duty. How ever even If I get a confirmed kill and a second down and there is no conceivable way my team should lose a team fight they seem to do it on repeat while im decapping far or dueling home and what not. In sitations like this where my teams are so inept at team fighting should I be waiting around even with zero CDs in an attempt to do something minor to win the 5v3 I created? Or should I just accept the fact that they will lose it and move on to decap?

Second question when your team insists on zerging far the second you win mid and dont know how mesmer portals work…. what do…..?

And last what is the strongest offensive team fight carry besides warrior?

Apologies for the long and arduous question(s)….its 3 am here.
Thanks in advance.

sophiewhite.3149:

Bugabuga.9721:

But ranger/druid and theif’s traps work the same? Placed they become invisible to the enemy (unless you actually see player place them) and player can ran away. And then you’ll run into dual-triple ranger trap and almost die from condie burst unless your cleanse is available (fire + poison+ bleeding + knockdown )

those traps are a absolute joke compared to DH traps. cmon dont bother comparing them.

Thief traps are kind of useless but condi ranger/druid traps are honestly much more deadly in the sense OP is complaining about. You walk on a DH trap with no DH near by and you just roll out of it. Walk on a druid/ranger trap pile and are condi bombed. In general neither are really a big issue IMO but I disagree with your assessment.

kdaddy.5431:

I would honestly be happy if they just put some thought behind the builds.

Like why is mace/shield do more damage then axe and more condi damage then sword.(warrior)

Its like Anet said heck with it, 1 meta build per class and we are good.

This is why Anet disregards most forum posts for balance. Not pointing fingers at your personally but assumptions like this are really common.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Skull_Grinder

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Decapitate

Axe f1 has nearly double the base damage of mace and has a higher per point power increase (1.5 for mace amd 2.5 for axe). You take the mace for the stun not the damage itself. The damage hurts yeah, but axe does an insane amount more damage. On top of that the axe does larger cleave based on the shock wave.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flaming_Flurry
Low base power but the condi damage is much higher then mace assuming it hits. Its also a projectile and is well burn based…. burns hurt…. A lot.

Meta is also made by players not Anet, there are plenty of viable builds that arent meta. The general role of meta is to assign a job for your class that works well in a coordinated team, if you have a clear understanding of your class, the current meta and PVP in general you can easily make PVP builds that work as well and in some cases better then meta for solo queue.

sexuallegend.2153:

Archon.6480:

Huskyboy.1053:

sexuallegend.2153:

okay first off OP, the top rank belongs to druid hands down. I can tell you aren’t incredibly proficient with the class at all. there isn’t one class that can counter dodge druid, which is my unique build and personally what I view as the meta build for druids. super high dmg warrior? no problem, just evade everything. condi shredder theif? cool just dodge and cleanse everything. condi mesmer with moa? cool just dodge and cleanse. high dmg thief? cool just dodge and heal everything.

Insane heals, high pet dmg, some of the highest possible mobility, second most stealth in the game….need I say more? lmao. the only weakness this build has is 1v4 combat or 1v3 vs good players.

Very important message here guys, plz pay attention.

Yeah, but what’s a Dodge Druid? Is that like a Chevy Guardian?

Dodge Druid is a druid with insane heals (obvious), coupled with unmatchable evasion (more than daredevil) and condi cleanse

Your comments get funnier every time lol. Its like….. you’re on another planet…

sexuallegend.2153:

dodge druid is by far the most OP class. I can take on entire zergs alone.

Didn’t you learn your lesson about bragging when a certain ESL Mesmer told you drinking bleach was more productive then dueling you?

When ever I read threads like this I have to wonder where people get their info…. Are necros deadly in team fights? Yes
Are necros going to hurt if you let them live too long? uhhh yeah…
Are necros going to alone tear your team apart? haha…. no….
A necro in a team fight is there to apply massive aoe pressure, apply large amounts of CC and control things like stability and aegis output.They are not going to 100-0 your team alone but if they are playing right they can put enough pressure on a team that your teams power DPS can follow through and pick them off. Their entire role is control and pressure not to massacre a team. That role is deadly if a good player has it. Which is why as a class with weak escape they are focused quickly.
“necros are kept in check by focus fire”

Eles hard counter DH,
Eles are meta, due to the fact that no one else can do the same form of support they can
Eles are not OP in PVP by any means, they are called weak atm because they lost the ability to hold points alone. They have become a support class that is supposed to well… support…They will likely never be removed from the meta just because of the healing and condi cleanse they pump out.
My guess is that Op was trying to use the fact that he won against 3 Dh (classic low tier pub stomp class) With 3 Ele (currently has a stigma due to its role becoming pure support over being able to hold point against multiple opponents) He failed to take in to account that this game is 3 parts rock paper scissors, 4 parts skill, 3 parts team comp/synergy. Eles are rock and DHs are scissors

this was a fun read….. As someone who mained mesmer from launch until last season… Condi Chrono is not OP. Its at the highest point of balance but it shares that spot with a lot of other classes. Condi mesmer has a low skill requirement but a high cap. The result is it stomps in low tier matches. They function on CD reliant defenses. Learn to count CDs and 90% of them are easy kills. Learn what skills to save interrupts for, learn to ration your own CDs. Also side note… MM necro is an awful spec for PVP and a single moa kills all your pets… MM necro is hard countered my Mesmers of any kind. Pro tip…. interrupt their signet….Its cast time is stupidly long…

Even with the piles of evades, invluns and blocks avoinding condis is pretty much impossible in this meta. Your goal as a rev isnt so much to drop them its to manage your healing and know when you should disengage. You have a 2 condi drop/heal on staff 4 you heal when you hit your target from behind, you have heal when you swap legend under 50% energy, you drop a condi when you swap legends, you have 2 heals on shield. And you can constantly pop regen. Rev is about managing CDs and energy at all times. You can actually produce a lot of self sustain even while under pressure by using your various heal skills/regen during kiting. Popping regen and shield 5 can keep you alive for a very long time for example. The issue with a lot of revs is they start blowing their heals too quickly when they need to be using their various short CD skills first.

Erzian.5218:

Nickzor.2453:

sword 3/x weapon swap GS 2,4,3 shatters f1 f3 f2

Nickzor.2453:

pull it off in a single second….

Sometimes I wonder what version of gw2 all the forum pros are running.

Yeah I typed out the burst rotation without sleep. sword 3 in to clone swap followed by Gs 2,f1,GS 3,f3,f2. The GS 4 is part of the chrono mancer version that requires quickness from the trait. Regardless all those buttons can be pressed in a single second not including the swap from sword. half those buttons are off the global CD as a result you chain them in to the skills on the global CD. With sieze the moment selected including the sword 2×2 is pretty easy to pull off in 1.1 seconds. You can use a lot of programs to test your key presses per second. I am getting 7 in 1.1 using sieze the moment and landing the full burst I listed.

Shadowstep.6049:

Have seen DHs do it. But w/e.

Not denying people do it….It just creates an artificial cap on a class thats lower then the actual classes skill cap. Just because a macro can spam a combo of buttons doesn’t mean it can account for changes in the environment. That being said if any DH is using macros I cant possible imagine what for….. all of their combos can be done instantly by anyone who has all their fingers….. The hardest rev combo in the game would miss if you macroed it, the hardest hitting mesmer combo in the game wouldnt even happen….. There is no real benefit to macros besides a very small handful of quality of life combos. + latency makes using client side macros in any MMO silly.

Azukas.1426:

Stop trying to defend this. Macros are real and they are being used a lot in this game. I can create a macro to reproduce bursts on classes that are “high” skill level. I can do this at the push of one button. It’s not hard to set it up, and gives a distinct advantage to the person using them b/c they don’t have to worry about actually landing it.

Don’t post here like you can legitly reproduce the combo speeds on par with macros if you aren’t a pro, b/c you can’t. If you could you’d be competing for money and I don’t think a single person in this thread is currently doing that.

Thank You

Normally I dont take the time to respond to threads like this…. But as someone who mained glass power shatter mesmer/chrono for 3 years…. i can assure you that macros are obvious… but not in a good way….. the main power shatter burst rotation is 6-9 buttons…… doing that with a macro will produce the right button combos.. maybe? But it will completely screw the positioning…. no high skill cap class benefits from just the corrects buttons. sword 3/x weapon swap GS 2,4,3 shatters f1 f3 f2 was the optimal burst for a long time….. And doing it right required a set up with proper positioning. A good shatter mesmer would also pull it off in a single second…. no macros…. Helseth still has streams on his twitch of him doing it before he even got a gaming mouse…. Fresh Air eles may lower their skill cap by using their macro… but they only are lowering the cap they can reach. the classes cap will just be out of their reach by choosing to go that route. Thats true with every class. if you honestly feel you can produce a macroed power mesmer shatter combo in a real gameplay situation I will give you 100 gold if you can manage to hit me with 1 clone…