CC Danicia.1394:

Zanshin.5379:

Let me know if you see a dev playing guardian.

Me 5 minutes ago. Shout out to the folks hanging out with me!

I had never previously considered the possibility that Guardian burning effects were caused by searing CUTENESS-OVERLOAD rather than some sort of holy wrath.

Hmm…

DiogoSilva.7089:

TRAIT SYSTEM vs PROFESSION SUB-TYPES
I’m putting one against the other, because I believe they would fight each other for the same or similar goals. They can definitely (and mostly likely would) co-exist in some way or another.

First, balance and design issues:

• The trait system is way too passive
  In a game that is highly criticized for too much passive spam, Anet has expressed their wishes to go towards the opposite direction. But they will always be crippled as long as they depend on a system that is of passive nature in an attempt to try to design a more active combat playstyle. To put it bluntly, the trait system offers restricting design space for more active playing when compared to, say, the skill system itself. It is therefore healthier to the game to make skills more important and traits less important. But here lies new problems:

I think you are over-focusing on the Trait System’s place in horizontal growth and in how much it defines any particular build or thematic sub-class. Traits are half of a character, and deliberately the passive half at that. Rather than ‘restricting design space’, they organize it . Active elements in a carefully sized UI are set by weapon and skill choices. Passive modification of those choices are set by traits.

When you say traits should be more active, as close as I can see is having a trait unlock/enable a new skill… and from a practical standpoint, they already do that. The difference between a Warriors warhorn #5 giving a speed buff and the same button giving a party-wide condition cleanse is night and day. They are all but separate skills despite sharing an icon. So I don’t see traits being nearly as passive as you suggest.

Likewise, I run a Mantra-Healer Mesmer. The ‘Restorative Mantras’ Trait is literally the difference between being in the spec or not, and applying that Trait is anything but passive.

• The trait system is both way too important, and too risky to expand upon
  14 passive effects. 75 total passive effects for each profession. And the only way to expand the trait system is to add even more passive stuff. That’s crazy. It’s a total, passive effects overload. How can Anet ever fix the passive problem with such a system? Meanwhile, the skill system is fairly underwhelming in comparison. While traits have all this ornate system with tiers, trait lines, minors and majors, what does the skill system have?

Again, I’d suggest reading over The New Masters. That was an example of horizontal expansion of the skill system without relying on new traits whatsoever. There’s a good range of tags already in place. Using them allows new skills to tie into existing trait effects without calling for more traits to cover them.

• The skill system is underwhelming and hard to expand upon
  Yes, you can always add more skills into the game, but the system itself will always be the same, rather generic, get skills points from anywhere and unlock skills from a UI.

Same comment as above. That assertion does not have to be true. Even in the live game, while you can buy anti-toxin spray with skill points there was also a completely new avenue offered, trading a combat-harvested mat and some coin for a new skill. The potential for gating skills behind other requirements is CLEARLY on the table for discussion .

cesmode.4257:

Or, to stir the pot…how can horizontal progression attempt to fix some of the balance issues or build diversity issues the game has?

Well you might find it amusing in the The New Masters proposal that Engineer was the only class that received 3 new skills in a category they don’t currently have… Signets.

There was a lot of frustration that Engineers didn’t get to join in any reindeer games when the Superior Runes of resistance were added to high-difficulty Fractals. Having Centurion Crushpaw open up a trio of Signets was a direct example of tweaking class-to-class parity through horizontal growth.

Most balancing will continue to focus on adjustments to existing character options, but horizontal progression most definitely can be used to address that problem, sometimes in ways tinkering with the numbers can’t, correcting broader, more systemic issues.

Yojimaru.4980:

My Norn Elementalist.

Massive bonus points for composition!

blume.4298:

All my characters look incredibly good, but my boyfriends always uses to say that my little ranger ist the most authentic of my chars.

That may give me nightmares. Well done! ((shudder))

THE NEW MASTERS
“I haven’t seen that trick before!” — famous last words

The fighting spirit of Tyria has lead to countless styles and techniques, handed down through the centuries, mixing and flowing across the years like 10,000 streams of courage. Its time for you to drink of these waters. Welcome as Guildwars 2 reveals the next level of horizontal gameplay in this permanent Living World release.

Just Something I Picked Up
‘Class Mentors’ have been added to the world. Each mentor belongs to one of the existing Professions but has their own unique take on what that means. They may be masters of lost arts, privy to secrets from foreign lands, or simply picked up ‘a little something’ along the way. Each mentor offers players a series of tasks in their zone culminating in a new mini-dungeon. Characters of any class can answer the call… But for characters whose class matches the mentor’s, there are even greater benefits.

Completing the instance for your class mentor will immediately unlock a new weapon type for you to use and reveals three new utility skills (listed on a line between the 6-point utilities and the elite skills). These skills typically cost 15 skill points and often share tags with existing skills allowing you to blend them into and enhance existing builds or combine them to unleash entirely new creations!

Now I am the Master…
Once a mentor’s tasks are complete, they will also become a karma vendor offering 3 new weapons skins for the weapon type they teach and specifically themed to go with the skills they reveal. Show off your new moves in style!

Master Kaigen-Li (Elementalist)
While the lands of the Tengu remain shrouded behind secrecy and vast stony walls, there are still those who feel wisdom must be shared or it is not wisdom. Meet Master Kaigen-Li a Tengu elementalist who needs your help finding a scroll lost since the Rise of Orr…
Weapon Granted: Main-hand Sword
Skills Revealed: Conjure Night’s Sword, Riddle of Silence (cantrip), Signet of the Starry Heavens

Centurion Crushstone (Engineer)
Looking for special detached duty, Legionnaire? Word’s come down from HQ that Centurion Crushstone needs support at the Nolan Hatchery. An infestation of spiders threatens to cut off this crucial component of the Black Citadel’s supply chain. If an old hand like Crushstone can’t handle it alone, you know something’s up…
Weapon Granted: Hammer
Skills Revealed: Signet of Progress, Signet of Synchronicity, Signet of the Forge

Roabb the Sunchaser (Guardian)
The ancient Way of the Paragons has not been forgotten! Help this traveler from afar fulfill his ancient oath and bring lasting peace to a tortured spirit from another age…
Weapon Granted: Terrestrial Spear (2-handed)
Skills Revealed: “For Honor, Forever!”, Sunshield Signet, Welcome the Dawn (meditation)

Singing Crystal of Marith (Mesmer)
Come, listen to the mysterious music that pours from this recently uneathed stone. If you listen closely enough, you might even begin to hear words…
Weapon Granted: Main-hand Pistol
Skills Revealed: Double Trouble (phantasm), Rippling Shock (glamour), Who-What-Where? (clone)

Ogenvar Ravensbite (Necromancer)
Come swiftly! Raven has discerned the shape of Jormag’s next scheme to consume the spirit world. Where Bear or Wolf might rush in to face the Serpent of Black Ice head-on, Raven speaks to me of a more… indirect solution. Why just beat a foe when you can play him for a fool? But first, we’ll need some feathers…
Weapon Granted: Greatsword
Skills Revealed: Spectral Voices, Succumb to Despair (corruption), Summon Blood-haze (minion)

Anne Ocke-Linn, 3rd Lionguard Skirmishers (Ranger)
“Bows never worked for me. Too much twanging and thwiping. But rifles? After a few rounds of being shot up by Skritt, I thought ‘hey now’…” Help Anne clear out a little Skritt problem and she’d be happy to show you some durn-fine shootin’!
Weapon Granted: Rifle
Skills Revealed: “Brace for it!”, Deadly Aim (survival), Hunter’s Blind (trap)

Maintainer Tassi (Thief)
It all started out as a little bet to see who could clear more elemental parasites from Rata Sum’s arcane core… And nobody said she couldn’t get help! Meet Tassi, but don’t be fooled. Under her sweet demeanor, this Asuran thief has ruthless moves that more than make up for her… absolutely perfect size.
Weapon Granted: Off-Hand Mace
Skills Revealed: Mirror Trap, Revealing Dust (trick), Two-Man Job (deception)

Sashean the Black Arrow (Warrior)
There is no blade so sharp it couldn’t benefit form a little… natural… augmentation. Sashean is determined to combine Sylvarii arts with martial prowess to bring something new into Tyria. Here’s what he needs from you…
Weapon Granted: Shortbow
Skills Revealed: Banner of Serenity, “I will have Revenge!”, Venomous Pouch (physical)

Immensus.9732:

Junkpile.7439:

Wildstar looks like puke. Probably ok game, but characters look like poor mans earthworm jim. Making my eyes bleed.

you know is funny that all these arguments have been seen before in the SWTOR forums were people believed that their game (SWTOR) had nothing to be afraid of Gw2 and some other games when they`ll be released, well see now, it barely has 3-4 server still open

I’m gonna go out on a limb here that GW2 didn’t kill SWtoR… SWtoR did.

One of the most impressively badly managed MMOs I’ve ever seen. It’s like the Star Wars franchise operates under some kind of curse.

Now, if you want to make comparisons between the two that are scary, its that fully voicing your protagonists with high caliber talent from outside your company is looking like a worse idea every day. We haven’t had one new line of hero speech recorded since before launch, and THAT was pretty disastrous over in the SWtoR patch of MMO grass.

Crossplay.2067:

Guys, she’s a mesmer. She could be messing with Marjory’s head. It wouldn’t be the first time a mesmer has messed with a party member.

Mesmers never, ever lie or deceive.

Never.

((Much…))

PopeUrban.2578:

The barometer of “can you kill a plains wurm faster” is flawed.

If I was able to derive some specialized “Arthropod toxin” that made me better at killing a plains wurm while simultaneously making me worse at running, or magic find, or killing wolves or whatever… that’s still horizontal progression.

If its more effective than a Potent Potion of Wurm Slaying (+ 10% damage to wurms; – 10% damage taken from wurms) I am gonna be pretty skeptical that a penalty to magic find or stabbing wolves is more than just a distraction from the vertical progression compared to consumables in game now.

If you are fully fed, potioned, runed and rocking a Sigil of Night at night… wurms go down mighty fast. Players can hit really, really hard. Most of the time none of us bother to push to that ultimate limit. There’s a bit more wiggle room in my barometer than you might think .

In this case our “gun” is our overall character in terms of skill selection, weapon, class, and gear. If you could make fair trades for offense versus defense, better damage in certain regions while getting worse damage in others, etc. that is, I believe, horizontal progression. It’s the act of specializing rather than simply getting more powerful, and I believe that is something that should be considered when thinking about progression moving forward.

Agree fully. So if you do breach the ‘wurm limit’ I would plan on having a really compelling explanation of what you gave up to do it. And careful consider if the down side of your trade-off is something that can be completely mitigated. “Vulnerability to wolves” is meaningless if I can switch the exchange off before fighting a wolf…

The Lost Witch.7601:

(A joy which is for many players killed by dulfy, but available to those that enjoy the puzzle as long as it makes some sense)

Dulfy and the wiki are both great powers which must be used wisely .

(I tend to avoid Dulfy Guides until figuring something out has either deeply aggravated me or become obviously tedious. I think the last time was after finding about 9 Naga obelisks on my own, the prospect of hunting every wet-map in the game hurt my soul and I looked the rest up.)

Besides, it would be rather odd to have Tequatl carry a recipe on how to make a shield of his scales with him. At the same time, it would be odd to unlock crafting recipes based on killing him… perhaps we need to channel a source of power at his corpse to gain knowledge of the dragons anatomy, and discover which parts are useful?

While a raid boss dropping mats is fairly familiar ground in MMOs, I think you could do it both ways – have something you could figure out on the discovery panel (maybe a new consumable?) and also use the new material in recipes with must be bought/earned. I’ve heard the local Hylek might have ideas what to do with “3 blighted spines” or whatever you plucked of the Sunless’s remains .

Personally I’d really like to get back to the crafting system being based on discovery. Buying all the recipes be it Celestial or Ascended left an unpleasant taste in my mouth. It was both obviously a gold-sink and a step backwards from what had been a fun mini-game.

Ignavia.7420:

New exclamations

The character already says things when discovering a new area, a new skill, getting might or other stuff. This can also be used to display character progress. If a character is in the priory and discovers a tomb, they might say something like “The priory will be interested in this”. Or if after a character kills an earth elemental after killing hundreds of elementals before they say “I know your weaknesses”. Same after killing an enemy with a dagger after accumulating 500 dagger kills: “I always liked this weapon”. This way your progress is displayed and the game is a bit livelier. The system is also quite expandable.

That, sir, is awesome. Order-based exclamations would be a fabulous way to casually announce your choice of Orders in play.

I really think a major expansion or cluster of 2-week releases focusing on the three Orders is some of the strongest, deepest, & permanent non-mechanical progression we could hope for. There is just so much you could fit into that framework.

Follow up events
After finishing a renown heart you gained the trust of this NPC. Some of them could allow you to start new events related to that renown heart. The same can be done with representatives of the orders. These could also offer you specific mission like events. This would provide a way to hook in new events and make returning to the renown hearts NPCs more rewarding.

Nice. blurs the lines between world-building and progress (in a good way). The progression is players gain more opportunities to launch events of their choosing.

One limitation is you’d want a separate NPC participating in the event, or for it to be non-combat – its would be extremely annoying if someone else’s (failed) DE killed my heart-vendor.

That. Is Awesome.

The patents for that are probably what financed his giant flying battle-statio- uh toy factory in the first place…

Did I mention Order-based unique dyes were hella sexy?

Well they are.

But I think another thing I’d like to see as a reward for advancing with your chosen Order is a vendor at each HQ that sells 3-4 of the existing colors of dyes for karma. However, buying them doesn’t give you a bottle to click – it directly unlocks it in that character’s dye panel.

No using them in the Mystic Forge, no flooding the market with them – the reason they are there is to let that specific character represent their Order by always having the Order’s preferred colors in their palette.

This simple benefit that could be granted much earlier in the course of ranking up in your Order. Quite separate from those wonderful unique dyes you get towards the end of the journey.

The Lost Witch.7601:

More power is indeed more power, but in that regard, unlocking a skill may very well make me more powerful than I was before. (The new ele healing skill for example) yet I do not really consider it vertical progression. And this is for a large part because it is so easily accessible. (But also because you have to trade it off against not taking other skills)

A BIG reason why the new healing skills should not be considered ‘vertical’ is that in order to take them, you have to give up on using any other healing skill. “Opportunity costs” are essential to restraining power creep. No new ‘f5’ button was introduced to support them. They consume an existing and very finite resource.

For certain builds, the new skills ‘click’ better than any previous choice, but overall the class did (well, should) not get any more powerful.

There’s about 400 pages of arguments already underway how well the new skills met the goals of horizontal progression, but aa lot of them boil down to complaints that they are horizontal and “waaah, I wanted it to make me uber” .

The accessibility of that new tier of power is essential to this though. If we look at horizontal progression as the upper bar of the ‘T’, this would make the vertical ‘I’ a little longer and the horizontal ‘_’ a little wider. I don’t mean to hide it behind gameplay, I mean for it to feel as meaningful progression, while not being a necessity. And there is a good reason to do so with a minor part of vertical progression. Because it in this method, no matter how terrible the ritual is, it has a benefit over not having it – for all professions (unlike making it an elite skill for example, in which it would compete with strong and weak skills depending on the professions that people play).

Means of acquisition are largely separate from whether the rewards are — or | . I just want to help people recognize a | with they see one . If f5 does nothing now and the new ability makes it do something… almost anything… that’s a | effect.

I have read a lot of posts about ‘quests’ to get skills. And I’m sure you’ve read them as well, but consider the wvw-er, would he want to go on a quest for that?

These days I’m feeling the “pay skill points” model is a really strong one. Its something the leveling process teaches you early and reinforces constantly, its powered by gaining XP which are common to nearly all modes of play (and sPvP is gaining the ability to buy skill point tomes so even that mode advances along this path).

A skill system in which only one of a kind can be active at a time could keep this kind of progression manageable without making the quest feel ‘useless’ because you can also obtain it through paying with badges.

Sure. There are story-line minded UI tools in place. There’s some questions of UI bloat, but I think for a strong mid-to-long term activity with excellent repeatability and expansibility, the costs are worth it.

The details matter in this idea.

They always do .

Well, it is a wildly different kind of vertical progression than the one that we have with for example ascended gear. Since this doesn’t replace our older options.

I’m going to point out that right there is creep’s most insidious aspect. It DOES replace an existing option – the option that f5 does nothing.

It is also different from a progression system like the one in WvW, where the increase is pretty much infinitely accumulative. (The more you get, the better you become.) Since you have to choose.

Did you happen to read the WvW Comanders CDI? You might find This Post interesting, because I think people pretty much hated it or ignored it because it required you to “choose” one thing over another …

Potentially as low as 62.

DarksunG.9537:

Sytherek.7689:

LotRO has the best wardrobe system… tabs for setting and selecting wardrobe looks, and a tab for armor that sets your stats. The best system I’ve ever seen for CRPG armor.

Lotro’s system has a lot of problems. It requires inventory space in one fashion or another (including wardrobe slots) It requires keeping the items if you run out of wardrobe slots, it’s not quick.
DCUO has the best system where each time you put on a piece of gear it just “unlocks” the cosmetic & you can pick the look at any time from a drop-down on each piece.

Like most games, there’s a bit of pick and choose to get the “best” features all in one place.

DCUO does have better skin/slot management. On the other hand its locked by character (unless things have changes since I was there last) whereas LotRO’s wardrobe is account-wide and specifically lets you move looks across classes (my Captain’s plate-mail outfit for my Burglar never fails to amuse…)

And while DCUO’s is a little player-friendlier in its automatic accessibility, it needs to be said that the LotRO Wardrobe system does a truly superior job of being monetized without being offensively monetized. The basic model is perfectly adequate, and you usually don’t feel like you need to scrub down with soap after you decide to pay for an upgrade or a cash-shop outfit.

Guildwars 2 could learn a lot from examining both of those models more closely.

The Lost Witch.7601:

So what if (I’m always eager to bend rules)…:

There would be 9 new skills called rituals. They could be learned by going through elaborate quests that concern some exploration, some grind and some challenge. All in all, getting 1 ritual shouldn’t take more than 10 hours. But getting all 9 would be quite a long grind. (Though this grind could be part of everyday play, so over time you’d find yourself nearly there on most tracks)

First off “difficulty to access” is a non-starter when determining if something is horizontal or vertical. More power is more power no matter how you got it .

Back when Magic: the Gathering was first getting started the designer let it be known he wasn’t too worried about the effect of some rare cards on play because “Nobody would buy so many card packs that they would have 4 of them to put in a single deck.”

Needless to say, he revised his opinion in light of the multi-million dollar industry he spawned . If there is a way to power, players WILL achieve it.

- We can only have one ritual on our skillbar at a time. It comes as an F5 skill.
- There can only be one ritual active on a player at a time. (The most recently cast one in the area, or the one you own)

It ‘could’ be vertical progression in that players with a ritual unlocked are better at defeating that plainswurm. But there wouldn’t be a big gap between those who have one ritual unlocked and those who have all nine. Yet it offers a lot more progression for those that desire all 9 for flexibility. In addition to that, only one member in the team would need a ritual.

The question isn’t about having 1 or 9 being more or less powerful than each other – you have internal tradeoffs once you’ve broken into that new tier of power. But it is a new and higher tier you’re describing. When you add an extra button without a take-away, its vertical. whether you rework it into the class from level 1 or think you’ve hidden it behind 21 hours of hardcore gameplay, its still vertical. Even defensive buffs/rituals speed up kills. Maybe not plainswurm kills, but Queen Plainsworm kills certainly (one of my favorite early Queensdale DEs ) because they mean you spend less time dodging or casting heals.

Now I am not necessarily in favor of such a system. But I do think that this type of progression could be part of the horizontal progression discussion. Since it is in my mind about 90% horizontal and 10% vertical. And mostly harmless in the vertical direction through it’s implementation.

As long as you’re clear it IS vertical, then I think there’s a fascinating conversation to be had there. Just maybe not in this thread . 10% vertical advancements are "mostly harmless "… that month. But over a year or three… not so harmless. That’s why is called “creep”. It’s sneaky. Like maybe adding another gear tier in 2016, it would be better to find solutions that don’t rely on vertical progression at all.

Guhracie.3419:

Those guidelines are great to have! I’m way excited to get started on this thread. Here’s what I’ve been working on so far:

Make the Personality System Matter:

A lot of interesting potential there . I’m trying to decide if it a plus or minus that Personality can shift over time when held up against your suggestions. I think its a plus. Your emotes would shift with you, and if players discovered they had a favorite amongst the drops they wanted to get but were the wrong Personality, they could shift themselves to that type before farming in earnest.

Make the Order Decision Matter:

More good stuff. Only thing I would immediately add is as you climb in rank, you gain access to more information about your order. Maybe clickies in their headquarters, or maybe some sort of expansion to the story sub-panel of the Hero-panel.

The idea of lore being (part of) the reward for working up through an Order appeals to me lot.

And…

• Add access to soulbound or account bound Order exclusive dyes at the top rank.

THAT is unbelievably SEXY and I wantses it. Wantses it bad. The Precious!!

Horizontal Progression: Moving Forward by Looking Back

Before launching into all-new ideas, I wanted to highlight a system we have presently that could be greatly improved on with a little polish.

Runes/Sigils Revamp
I think you’ll find that if you go into the Trading Post and look at all of the Superior Sigils or all of the Superior Runes and sort by price from lowest to highest, you get an excellent guide to which need to be enhanced, and at the top end which may be a little too good. Many of these can be tweaked with tiny adjustments to their existing code/purpose and increase horizontal diversity by offering more competitive choices and fewer no-brainer options.

For example the Superior Sigil of Rage has been found nearly worthless by the community – it is one of the lowest priced of all Sigils other than the monster-specific damage Sigils. With a change as small as reducing its internal cooldown to 25 seconds (from 45) you could give it a new lease on life. This would give it a maximum up time ratio of 12% (with the 10% you’ll never actually sustain that, but bear with me). With quickeness now offering only a 50% compared to the 100% it granted when this Sigil was designed, you could gain as much as a 6% damage gain when the stars align. That makes it very comparable to the much more highly regarded Superior Sigils of Force (a flat +5% at all times). Many under-performing Sigils and Runes could be brought up to competitive levels with just a review of internal cooldowns.

At the other end of the scale you have powerhouses like the Runes of Lyssa. Setting a cap on the number of type of conditions removed (5?) and causing it to randomly pick some-but-not-all Boons (again, 5?) would be more consistent with the capricious nature of Lyssa and undo some power creep this Rune Set has experienced since launch.

While there are a couple obvious outliers because of how they enter the system (Runes of Karka Slaying), using the “player Review” implicit in the Trading Post pricing could open up a lot of meaningful options without introducing hundreds of new items to track.

Serious Thought.5394:

Sorry to sound dumb- but what does “horizontal character progression” entail?

Horizontal progression tends to fall into two categories:

“Fluffy” Progression
These are non-mechanical markers of your progress/effort. Cosmetic options and titles come up a lot but there are also deeper fluffy options like rank within the Three Orders or even access to exclusive zones. Many of the items sold in the Gem Store fit this description – being able to summon a bank in the field is convenient, but it doesn’t let you kill plainswurms faster (see earlier post).

I also tend to lump treasure buffs in this category – Increase magic find, increased crafting crit, increased harvesting crit… If you look at the benefits your server earns through WvW there’s a gold mine of soft bonus mechanics that could be accessed in new ways.

“Crunchy” Progression
Its possible to add a wider (hence “horizontal”) range of choices with equivalent mechanical impact. The big constraint is “overall impact”. Ideally the new options reach into new effects or create new types of gameplay but you can at some risk try to create ones that are situationally stronger than existing choices.

While new Weapons, new Skills, and new Traits come up constantly, there are other “slots” on your character that could also lead to some great new toys for players…

New Runes, Sigils, Foods, and other Consumables or things that occupy those slots could provide great ways to fine tune characters without pushing them over the intended effectiveness range.

Oh!! And how do I get a signature that I can show?

For that you need to go into your profile. Click “Forum profile” under you account name in the upper right of each page while you are in the forums.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Rangers are already pretty strong, you just have to discover how they’re strong.

Just because your build was nerfed doesnt mean all builds were nerfed.

Who says my build was nerfed? I think the basic pet AI has been uniformly rubbish since launch .

And is it good design to have ‘pretty strong’ be hidden under a rock somewhere? Especially when the class description in character creation sends you in the complete opposite direction…

Woohoo!

Just wanted to share my first test for “Is it vertical or horizontal?”

If it will let an 80th level character come back to Queensdale and kill a plainswurm one-tenth of a seconds faster than they can now… it ain’t horizontal!

Looking forward to seeing people’s ideas!!

Is that something pigs can dig up? Because the wiki entry says skull fear is a thief thing…

Azure.8670:

I cant believe this thread got TWO responses from a dev but the Ranger forum itself is crying and screaming for attention and theres nothing

I can’t believe you think idle chit-chat from a community moderator has ANYTHING IN THIS UNIVERSE to do with solving the design problems the Ranger labors under…

I’m perfectly happy this kind of posting DOESN’T happen in the Ranger boards because we need working Solutions not hand-holding Attention…

kushiel.2867:

i disconected 3 times yesterday, came back as soon as i could, for the 2 first ones, at the third i dc’d at load screen, rage it and logout. When i came back i was with the buff, later that i was playing wvw reset night, dc1d 2 more times and went to sleep.

So whats going on? 5 disconects???
and now i cant play pvp for 2 days and have to walk with that horrible buff around.

And the teams that had to put up with your punching holes in their roster ARE THANKFUL FOR IT.

Solve your issue before dragging other people down.

Josh Davis.6015:

Elementalist: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Renewal
Ranger: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nature%27s_Renewal
Engineer: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toss_Elixir_R

Can’t think of any others off the top of my head.

You can’t think of any other intended ones.

There are several less savory possibilities.

Redenaz.8631:

Pyrasia.9281:

Warrior with Scepter ?
—> Mageknight !! Awesome.

…So, a guardian?

(Sorry, I couldn’t resist. Assumably, a scepter warrior would be more offensively-oriented, making it distinct, but it still seems strange to me.)

I tend to think a scepter-wielding Warrior would be like a guy with an escrima-stick or maybe a truncheon wielding cop beating you down all night-stick-style.

((Thwak!))

Owie, owie, owie!

Zaxares.5419:

A Permanent Extractor is something I’d buy too, but I shudder to think of how expensive it would be. >.>

I think you could a more balanced and cheaper ‘Permanent Extractor’ if it had a 1 day cool-down or something similar.

Most of the positive effect you give yourself or others are as a group called “Boons” – things like Might, Swiftness, Fury, Regeneration…

Boon duration increases how long they last if you are the person who created the boon.

Look at the top of this thread, because maybe there is a post missing or something…

What are you guys talking about?

$100 for playable centaurs. No questions asked.

…I am cautiously against it.

I think one of the best things about the CDIs is the basic social pact being offered that Everyone Gets Read. I would be wary of a formalized system (even if it’s invisible to us) that encourages the Dev-Host of a thread to skim over some people. I think that an informal version is inevitable (it’s just part of the way our brains are wired) but I’m a huge believer in second chances. If someone goes off on a rant, I don’t want that to be an instant and permanent trip to ‘the oubliette of black flags’.

Speaking for myself, even though I spend a lot of time both on the thinking-through and the actual word-smithing of my posts, I try to avoid making claims to my specific job history or post history. I’d rather my offerings compete on individual merit than some sort of implicit Appeal to Authority.

There is a way to catalogue posters you like, BTW.

If you up-vote a post, its added to a permanent record of your up-votes you can browse by clicking on your account name at the top of each page. The options look like:

•See all messages by Nike.2631
•Send Nike.2631 a PM
•View posts upvoted by Nike.2631
•View highly rated posts by Nike.2631
•Report Nike.2631

When you are looking at your own profile, the middle one can be used as a library of favored peers.

I am not looking to change or “fix” the current fractals. There is room for improvement there, I am certain, but I do not want redressing issues raised by the level wipe to be held hostage to ANYTHING to do with the current Fractals.

If the fact that part of the rewards is given in infusion is that distracting, think of it as a gold coin reward only – since old fractal players unhappy with the new ones can sell them off for a modest amount of coin without ever returning to Mistlock Observatory.

DESSA’S CHAMPIONS: FOR SERVICES RENDERED!
I posted this in the CDI, but I hope people with extraordinary Fractal Rewards Levels pre-Fractured will look at it and give feedback on if or how well it meets their needs .

This is a proposal for recognition of the creativity and skill displayed in assisting Dessa’ investigations into the Fractals of the Mist above and beyond what had at first appeared possible.

Three important considerations: First while I realize that there must be players out there with multiple characters at extraordinary Fractal Rewards levels, this proposal is based on a single reward set by your highest level. I realize this cheapens some of your effort, but I feel it is necessary to put this sort of cap on the levels being considered in light of what you would be receiving. Second, many of these rewards represent a ‘head start’ more than an eternal divide between those who entered the deepest fractals early and those who pit themselves against them now. Some of these rewards involve considerable expenditure of Development time and that time cannot be justified as a one-time expense. It must promote gameplay both past and future. Finally, the rewards are presented in three parts. If one section looks meaninglessly small or overwhelmingly good, try to appreciate the combined effect.

Level by Level
The first reward is that for each and every level you achieved from 31 on, you will be mailed a + 2 agony resistance infusion (maximum of 50 infusions for reaching level 80). It is important that these rewards differentiate between even so small a difference as players who reached level 43 vs. those who reached level 44. Also, please recognize that while you could sell these infusions, they are given in the spirit of invitation: you triumphed over the Fractals of the Mist in the past, please come back and show your power in the face of the new challenges.
The second half of the level-by-level reward is a progressive gift of karma. You will be mailed liquid karma equivalent to your highest pre-Fractured fractal rewards level squared x 100. This would amount to 96,100 karma for level 31 all the way up to 640,000 for those who reached level 80.

Shinies!
If your former Fractal Rewards Level reached the threshold’s of 35|45|55|65|75 you will be mailed a special chest for each of those thresholds (maximum of 5 chests at level 75). Each of those chests when opened will allow you to chose a single account bound “Advanced Fractal Weapon” skin of the weapon type of your choice. These skins are based on the existing Fractal Weapons but feature additional FX. While these skins will become available through playing Fractals level 51 and up in the future, for the moment you will be the only players in the game who have access to them and you WILL receive the specific weapons you crave most. Others will one day match your glory, but for now it’s all you.

Do you know who I am?
If your former Fractal Rewards Level reached the threshold’s of 40|50|60|70|80, you will gain account-wide access to new titles. These titles will also be available to those who reach levels 40 and 50 in the new fractals, but the 60th, 70th, and 80th level titles will be unique to you until such time as higher level fractals are re-introduced.

Level 40: “Knight of Broken Mirrors” title
Level 50: “Dessa’s Champion” title
Level 60: “Lord of Broken Mirrors” title
Level 70: “Stabilize this!” title
Level 80: “The Jadebreaker” title

ColinJohanson.2394:

We’re holding the leaderboard for now to see if we can’t decide on a better way to help differentiate people on it who are all at the same tier, other than just the first who got there specifically. Once we have decided that, we’ll need to code, test, and vet it and then update the leaderboards to reflect the new tracking.

I wonder if you could do a board that shows clusters of five player names for ‘fastest clear time’ for each type of fractal and at each level of difficulty.

Then we could go in and look up what teams are just shamelessly stomping these things into the ground, and make comparisons like a graph of ‘fastest Drege clears’ levels 31-50. Dips and spikes on a graph like that could be very informative.

156323 appears to be fully and satisfactorily resolved. Thank you!

“With you it’s always cause and effect. Input output. Your thinking doesn’t have enough angles!”
“What…?”
“My point ex-actly!”

The upper limit on Skritt intelligence can be just as much of a barrier to communication as when they are operating as near-bestial lone gatherers. When you’re so smart it’s annoying to have to slow down and explain yourself to an Asura using only three dimensional words in linear time, yeah, conflicts are going to arise .

That said, we do see tons of Skritt literally dropping down out of the rafters during the escort the gift Dolyaks events in Lion’s Arch, so my vote is there are whole warrens of them up in the attics of a number of the city’s buildings and maybe some of the bridges too .

skullmount.1758:

You forgot we deserve something for being Trahearne’s Kitten/lackey.

Ok… “Trehearne’s Kitten” (not an artifact of the filter, I actually said the word’s you’re seeing) is the MUST-HAVE mini-pet of the season.

Make it so.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Can we also have the Nyan Cat music playing while we run, for everyone to hear?

As long as the volume is controlled by a slider (like the bells and other instruments) so people can opt in or out as they choose, I’m all for this.

No, really.

For legendary dyes I want see-through-to-starfield dyes on my armor that use the shaders already in the game for Sunrise and Twilight.

(I have those on some of my character in DCUO. It does in fact ROCK.)

Mixchimmer.7230:

I would also like to point out that all of the statements I put forward regarding sub-classes were just brainstorming.

I get that, and I welcome people digging in and having a crack at it because it is WONDERFUL when somebody comes up with something I’ve missed or never seen before.

Its also painfully easy to create a mission statement that is unachievable. When working with game balance the devil is absolutely in the details. Just saying “see this will be fair and reasonable” doesn’t mean it actually is.

Subclasses as closed clusters is essentially toxic to an already more robust system of open exchanges we have.

Subclasses as equitable exchanges is almost inevitably based on “I’ve found an idea for a downside you can’t exploit, mitigate, or nullify to pay for this upside.” Those schemes usually break under testing in minutes, much less weeks when put in front of a million-plus gamers. Those downsides that are draconian enough to justify calling your up-side a balanced, horizontal exchange generally scare the crap out of the casual players that make up the greater portion of your audience.

Essentially you must design to withstand the ruthless analysis of the top 1% of the top 1% of build-crafters while also putting out something that’s human-readable and easily understood by 90% of your users.

It can be done. And when it is done, other developers have the courtesy to call it “genius”.

People are even criticizing the actual ideas for sub-classes: “Where’s the archer option?”

Ok, my example was too specific. The problem isn’t “where’s the archer”, the problem is the sheer hubris in thinking in just three archetypes you capture the majority of player ideaspace. 10 per class would be lowballing it and I think in any good room full of 5 people, you could hold a jam session and come up with 30 examples of “dudes I’d want to play as” worth considering in less than an hour. Then its starts becoming obvious that naming them and doing up all these fiddly bits for each them, with every fiddly bit primed to explode in your face is better tackled by the system already in place, doing a passable job of stringing together masses of free-floating mechanical elements of that magnitude.

I mean does anyone think that a looooong discussion of “sub-classes” isn’t what lead to what we have now? Look a the names on some of those trait lines!

I don’t think at any point any of us were trying to say, that these are the subclasses that will or should be implemented. The only reason they were brought up were for the sake of example.

Absolutely. But sometimes they are brought up with the exact casualness of the unachievable mission statement.

As much as I may quietly agree with something like “Final Fantasy had an amazing character progression scheme” (and it does. The word ‘genius’ LEAPS to mind) the moment you say “and Guildwars 2 should be like that” the practical considerations take precedence. Namely that A ) Guildwars 2 is a live game that must take care not to rock the boat so hard or fast you throw people over the sides and B ) Genius systems look so kitten pretty when they are done, but they take YEARS to craft from concept to polished state and I think the CDIs have already taken enough fire for not representing instantaneous gratification .

There’s also a lot of people posting their opinions on the matter where the tone in the literature conveys, “This is how it is, it isn’t opinion” — While it may sound contradictory; I’m sorry, but this simply isn’t the case — we’re talking about what people find fun and engaging :P. That being said, there has also been a lot of evidence and support provided, but I don’t particularly think people react well in a collaborative environment when opinions (even those with good reasons behind them) are conveyed as absolute fact.

I’ll grant you I’ve been very… strident.

Mostly I wanted to get a strong, up-front counter argument in because sub-classes are a really appealing notion that had seen literally a dozen favorable posts without hint of opposition.

I will try to restrain myself. …Even if I am RIGHT ;p.

At any rate, some very good counter arguments for sub-classes were brought up…

…I’ve just always sort of liked the idea.

Game design for entertainment is as much mass psychology as it is game theory. Please believe m that I DO NOT DISCOUNT the importance of a player saying “I’ve just always sort of liked the idea.” That is a very powerful argument in favor of something.

I feel like in the case of the PvE meta…

…So this is sort of where I’m coming from — my angle.

(sniped for message length – my apologies)

You and I are so on the same wavelength that I hope you’ll forgive my momentary outburst earlier.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Adding more and more skills will inevitably lead to balance disaster — unless all old skills are obsoleted by power creep. But no one wants power creep.

So copy Magic: the Gathering’s Type II/Standard play: have a regular schedule where old skills expire and new skills are introduced to replace them. The number of skills available to each player is always constant, and thus easier to balance.

I think if you’re gonna borrow from the best in their field, you need to look at their model completely – and one of the things that makes Type II work is that it’s only one mode of play out of many.

If Guildwars 2 added a category of PvP that introduced special rules (similar to Mistlock Instabilities) or build-limitations (strangely reminiscent of some sub-class proposals…) that periodically rotated (say, every two months) like Type II’s blocks I think you’d be on to a great new toy. Something eternally fresh for the competitive crowd to wrestle with. New pressures with every cycle, and its changing pressures that drive evolution.

But I would be very hesitant about making anything like that the default framework of the game, rippling out into all modes.

Ok, brief pause to discuss something about the nature of ‘designing through drawbacks’.

“Adding + 20 to one stat at the cost of – 20 to another” LOOKS like an equitable exchange. It’s Not. Its NEVER a zero-sum alteration in a complex environment. Because when you hand a player 20 points, they’ll wrap other options around that edge that multiply its value. And when you bill them 20 points, they’ll bend their other options to rely on that stat the least amount possible.

What usually happens is you’ve effectively give the character a chance at a + 25 for a mere – 10 and hoped they aren’t clever enough to know it. And if you go back and factor in the reality of co-efficients in the larger space, you have to offer a deal that on paper reads more like “You can take a + 16 here at the cost of a – 40 there.” The skilled min/maxer looks at that and either sees a good deal because he’s even more clever than you accounted for or he skips over it looking for weaker links to break. The casual player just looks at that and thinks the designer is a complete idiot. Either way it ends up being a lot of wasted effort introducing an option that while exquisitely balanced, is almost universally ignored.

Or you acknowledge that the symmetrical exchange has significant value and bill them for the exchange along a different axis (like, say, a major trait…).

Now apply that to the idea of sub-classes .

Dingle.2743:

They can be done well, and they can promote diversity. In GW2’s case, I’d look at them as altering the way a class plays, while still having multiple viable builds. Each subclass would be a sidegrade to the core class – each upside comes with a new downside, each new skill/trait replaces an old one, etc.

I’ll point out every time you rely on a unique downside to offset a benefit you invite ruthless min/maxing that may end up completely bypassing the negatives, but that’s a minor quibble. Carry on.

So, if for example, there existed an elementalist subclass called the “Purist”. The Purist gains Weapon Swap and the class trait line reduces skill cooldowns for weapon skills, bringing them in line with other professions. However, the Purist loses the ability to change attunements in combat.

The first thing I’d have to ask is what are the advantages to installing a whole new subsystem to support this over an Arcane adept level (10-points) trait that reads…

Purist: You may place terrestrial and aquatic weapons in a second set of slots and gain the weapon swap button. You may not change attunement in combat.

Not grandmaster tier, adept. If the exchanges are basically equitable, then you can position the Traits accessing them very low in the line.

On the other side of the spectrum, perhaps the other Elementalist subclass would be the “Arcanist”. The Arcanist gets a 5th attunement (Arcane) focusing on combo finishers, and more fields on dagger, scepter and focus, but loses the Arcane utility skills and has a longer attunement recharge base.

And this would be an example of the exact issue I noted above. Why does a player wanting more fields have to pay with losing Arcane utility skills? The connection is either purely arbitrary or based on a theme that may have no relevance to that player.

What’s more its the perfect sort of downside to side-step – If I was driven to take Arcane Utilities by personal preference its crippling and if I don’t use those anyway it has zero value as a drawback/downside to offset the advantages being gained. It directly multiplies the power of some builds without any penalty when those build are (hopefully) already operating at a balance efficiency without it. There’s no question it’ll unleash a wave of over-performers.

I believe the core of implementing a subclass system in GW2 would have to be ensuring that every trait line retains a sense of purpose in every subclass, and that each subclass should be capable of multiple roles in the same way each core class is now. In essence, subclasses should present the same roles we have available, each with a new playstyle to it.

Or you could present those options through the existing windows of opportunity with established and well-understood opportunity costs and not live it mortal terror something’s going to explode. Well, less terror – Players are very efficient at rooting out weaknesses in design .

Khisanth.2948:

I am aware of the benefits but given the previous discussion on time gating do you think ‘you should only craft on Thursday and make sure you are not in overflow’ is something people would like to hear?

My concern is almost the complete opposite: the current rules of “the Quest for BiS” are thrusting people into crafting with little or no preparation. The system is a lot deeper than it looks, and if someone is only there to grab a pink shiney they’re gonna drown in it.

Basically, I’m not saying “Ha ha, you’re doing wrong!”

It’s more like “Wow, that looked painful. If we’re gonna push 90% of the player base through here somebody should put up some ‘slippery when wet’ signs or something…”

Making with the Sharp Knives

And now a word about sub-classes. They’ve been trotted out a few times with people often saying “Wow, that would add so much diversity!”

No, it won’t.

It annihilates diversity.

Most sub-class lust is really just the hope that a theme you’re familiar with will be awarded with extra power. Kneel before the temples of conformity and receive their blessings. Bleh. But lets assume the reins of blatant power creep are being held firmly and we’re really looking at a nice little set of new & balanced right tray goodies and maybe a fresh left tray weapon bundled together. Staff-wielding Rangers with a spread of new nature magic-themed utilities has come up a few times all under the catchy moniker “druid”.

Lets pause and look at how good we actually have it right now.

The trait system allows for around 220 combinations if you are spending your points in ten-point blocks. More than double that for the classes that have desirable combinations of 5, 15, and 25 point minor traits. Factor in actually filling your 7ish major trait slots and the combinations jump to over 100,000… but lets realistically weed out the ones that aren’t internally self consistent like collecting 20% cooldown traits for more types of utility skills than you can actually have. My rough eyeball says you’re left with something in the vicinity of 2,000 plausible trait/skill set-ups.

That’s per class.

And out of over 2000 workable combinations of traits, we’re going to exalt THREE over all others? Ditch all of that genetic potential to lavish these new skills upon just over one one-thousandth the viable builds because someone came up with a catchy name?

It’s not actually hard to make the case that dropping an asteroid on the Earth and triggering mass extinction does less damage to the species diversity than introducing a handful of named sub-classes with closed benefit sets. It’s THAT BAD.

The three Warrior subclasses suggested sound cool at all, but where’s “the archer”? How can you have a list of thief subclasses and not have a “swashbuckler”? Hey, I’d really like to advance my dual-pistol engineer as more of a “gunslinger”… Wouldn’t a necromancer “master of bones” be cool? It never stops. Even if you’re really excited about the ideas they inspire, you’ll never keep up with the actual richness and range of literary, fictional, and historical archetypes that resonate within your playerbase. Right now I can make an “archer” that’s on even footing with anybody’s warrior AND I can mix and match utilities without locking myself out of the weapon I want to use because I’m moving outside of a pre-determined theme. I can pick traits to emphasize gunplay on my Engineer. New skills fitting those themes would be even better, but exclusive new skills? Why? Why do that? What’s more, as things stand I can easily come to the boards and share my vision – to work from equal footing with anyone because at the moment the Devs don’t play favorites that way. They don’t claim namespace and fixed concepts for their own. The don’t highlight any sort of ‘one true way’. Why throw that away?

These sorts of Archetypes are fantastic inspiration, but use them to inspire individual components and then allow the players to combine those freely within the frameworks already in place. If a new “druid” build is going to arise, let it arise because a player took the new tools and did something compelling with them – often with a small, unpredictable twist that’s a better solution than would have been hard-wired into the system by artificial constrains. Allow for evolution. It would be tragedy to release some sort of tightly inter-laced staff-&-Nature Magic build when you could have with the exact same work introduced a new weapon: staff and a new cluster of utilities: Druid Magic. Instead of rendering a few thousand other themes second class citizens unworthy of using a staff, you actually increase build diversity by around 150 new combinations as players tinker with mixing the staff with every existing utility-set they like or they stick with their beloved greatsword/sword + torch and rotate in some of this new Druid Magic to see how it feels.

New options build diversity. New options bound together in arbitrary clusters murder it.

One of the best thing this game did was firmly de-couple race from class. Don’t undo the gains of that philosophy by binding weapons to utilities. Even in the service of an awesome theme.

Out of left field question:

How many people know that when you want to level a skill from 400 to 500 it costs between a fifth to a third less to do so on Thursdays?

(I ask because I keep seeing what I consider insanely high numbers thrown around for how much it costs. I just leveled my leatherworker to 500 with mats lying around in my bank. …But as a dedicated crafter I also know (nearly) every dirty trick in the book…)

Chris Whiteside.6102:

This is my last day at work before the holiday season and I am going to be very busy!

Once I am on vacation I will have more time to respond and engage.

There’s a joke to be had about the distinct lack of (office) elves in Tyria to hold down the fort over the holiday, but I can’t quite string it together .

Either way, I’m stocking up on egg nog.

I am therefore going to postpone the focused discussion on Horizontal Progression until tomorrow. I will catch up post page 36 today (or at least try).

Your mailbox too, time permitting .

Meanwhile I have a question. This thread is BIG. Would the folks who have already commented on Horizontal want a new thread which is just based on Horizontal or should we just carry on with this thread?

I wish we could link/plug in voice clips from the game on the boards, because there’s a perfect one for my feelings spoken by and Asuran gate operator in Lion’s Arch…

“My Ears! What an intriguing question. I don’t have the faintest idea…”

Even before you mentioned it there’s been a steady trickle of people voicing concern that they might be putting their foot wrong adding to the conversation since they haven’t read the entire thread. Its not that the thread is big, it’s that the thread is becoming scary. Definitely something to discuss in the next ‘evolution’ thread.

Crapgame.6519:

Nike.2631:

Don’t forget selfless daring (your dodges AoE heal at the end). With Vigorous precision that’s a LOT of heals.

Until you then dodge roll off a very high place to your death…. /boggle

:)

Shhhhhh!

What happens in the Jade Sea Fractal stays in the Jade Sea Fractal.

Gibson.4036:

cesmode.4257:

Can we have a CDI dedicated to this very topic? It seems to be on everyones mind, including my own from time to time, for the last year+ and is not going away.

No need, I can tell you what the CDI would entail.

Unhappy Players: “But the ManifestO!111!!ONE1!! You lied >:-(”

Happy Players: “That was a long time ago, things change, move on!”

This goes on for several pages before:

ArenaNet: “We still believe in the ideas expressed in the manifesto and are working to live up to them. We believe we have been true to them. Thank you for your feedback, we’ll discuss it among ourselves, there has been some good discussion here. We’re not at liberty to tell you what is currently in the works or what to expect in the future. kthanksbye!”

Followed by more pages of the player discussion above, before the whole thing gets locked and stickied.

I feel like CDIs have served me pretty well and I still think this assessment is dead on .

DESSA’S CHAMPIONS: FOR SERVICES RENDERED!
This is a proposal for recognition of the creativity and skill displayed in assisting Dessa’ investigations into the Fractals of the Mist above and beyond what had at first appeared possible.

Three important considerations: First while I realize that there must be players out there with multiple characters at extraordinary Fractal Rewards levels, this proposal is based on a single reward set by your highest level. I realize this cheapens some of your effort, but I feel it is necessary to put this sort of cap on the levels being considered in light of what you would be receiving. Second, many of these rewards represent a ‘head start’ more than an eternal divide between those who entered the deepest fractals early and those who pit themselves against them now. Some of these rewards involve considerable expenditure of Development time and that time cannot be justified as a one-time expense. It must promote gameplay both past and future. Finally, the rewards are presented in three parts. If one section looks meaninglessly small or overwhelmingly good, try to appreciate the combined effect.

Level by Level
The first reward is that for each and every level you achieved from 31 on, you will be mailed a + 2 agony resistance infusion (maximum of 50 infusions for reaching level 80). It is important that these rewards differentiate between even so small a difference as players who reached level 43 vs. those who reached level 44. Also, please recognize that while you could sell these infusions, they are given in the spirit of invitation: you triumphed over the Fractals of the Mist in the past, please come back and show your power in the face of the new challenges.
The second half of the level-by-level reward is a progressive gift of karma. You will be mailed liquid karma equivalent to your highest pre-Fractured fractal rewards level squared x 100. This would amount to 96,100 karma for level 31 all the way up to 640,000 for those who reached level 80.

Shinies!
If your former Fractal Rewards Level reached the threshold’s of 35|45|55|65|75 you will be mailed a special chest for each of those thresholds (maximum of 5 chests at level 75). Each of those chests when opened will allow you to chose a single account bound “Advanced Fractal Weapon” skin of the weapon type of your choice. These skins are based on the existing Fractal Weapons but feature additional FX. While these skins will become available through playing Fractals level 51 and up in the future, for the moment you will be the only players in the game who have access to them and you WILL receive the specific weapons you crave most. Others will one day match your glory, but for now it’s all you.

Do you know who I am?
If your former Fractal Rewards Level reached the threshold’s of 40|50|60|70|80, you will gain account-wide access to new titles. These titles will also be available to those who reach levels 40 and 50 in the new fractals, but the 60th, 70th, and 80th level titles will be unique to you until such time as higher level fractals are re-introduced.

Level 40: “Knight of Broken Mirrors” title
Level 50: “Dessa’s Champion” title
Level 60: “Lord of Broken Mirrors” title
Level 70: “Stabilize this!” title
Level 80: “The Jadebreaker” title

Estriella Faerie.4029:

But the required AR that was put on lvl 40 and 50, as well as some on the new maps, completely change the balance between Skill and Stuff. Those should really be thought again to get back to what fractals were, a challenge to the player skill, not to his stuff. It wouldn’t be that hard to implement. Changing 2 instabilities to other ones, a few maps to tweak to make AR less mandatory (or less AR mandatory), and it would be back to being great.

I think that may be getting a bit far afield for this thread, but I’m glad the devs will essentially be forced to read it – I agree its a thought that needs to be in their heads .

(Not knocking the importance at all, I just doubt the right Devs to act on it are following this topic line)

I’m almost done scripting up a recognition scheme for the Fractals old and new that I think will interest you. Please watch for it .

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

I lost Level 81. I lost 51 scales. I lost hudge ammounts of Karma I don’t get while playing fractals wich are worth more now after Karma reset. I lost the Chance of getting for 100% a Skin or a ring at daily chest if I had enough ar to complete 80 again. And most importanly I lost time… time is the key Thing here if your time spent gets reseted you feel angry about it no matter if you lost 200 hours for farming a legendary and the legendary gets deleted or you loose 200 hours for playing fractals and your Level gets deleted.

I caught this just as I was about to go off and script something. I’ hope you’ll review it when its done, and I may have some questions for you, because you just mentioned a couple things about high fractal rewards levels I didn’t know about, and my scheme may not be scratching certain itches as well as I first thought it might. It’ll be a few minutes, so if you’re gone when it does get posted I hope you’ll check for it when you come back .