I use them on a might stacking Necro build….the -duration is great since you spend a LOT of time in DS without a condi clear available.
Or that power bunkers would rule supreme.
It’s like watching a documentary on people screwing with an ecosystem to meet their short term goals but not realizing they’d be screwing themselves harder in the long term.
The ONLY reason ToL wasn’t swimming in Condi builds is because of 1 rune
Strength Runes
In fact the NA final was a complete snooze where 2 teams full of bunkers dukes it out.
Heck I’d even argue that the patch was still too fresh to have it included for this tournament. 2 warrior teams…..
Ofc, it has to be that rune. Can’t be that condi builds are actually pretty meh in serious play or anything. :P
Especially since Might helps condition damage too. Nothing stopping a condi build from slapping those runes on. 875 power and condition damage at level 80 is nothing to sneeze at for anyone if you have enough generation to self stack 25 reliably.
My problem with conditions is the combat log.
Seriously, as I don’t know all the skills of every profession and what conditions they apply many times I don’t know what killed me.The combat log is unfortunately rather unhelpful for a lot of things. I’d love to see improvements showing condition damage ticks, hits on stealthed targets, etc.
Or procs. It would be nice to not have to reverse engineer on a dummy whether or not a proc is firing.
The combat log in this game is unforgivably low detail.
It’s like people aren’t even aware of the actual coefficients that power and condition attacks use…go peruse them in the wiki and educate yourselves instead of baselessly complaining.
Hint: the best condition for for damage out of the box gets .4 coefficient….but only if you trait for it and another condition is already on the target! Many if not nearly all primarily power damage based auto attacks get far better coefficients at base and hit multiple targets, putting them ahead in damage output in both burst and damage over time even after you account for the actual attack+aftercast times, and that is baseline out of the box before trait boosts.
Bleeding and confusion can stack up to 1.25 and 3.75 effective coefficient at 25 stacks. A properly played power build would have already killed you and moved on to their next target in the time it takes to reliably let an an enemy stack that on you though.
Or that while condition damage bypasses armor and toughness, it also only gets one directly multiplicative stat (Damage + Duration) and an indirect damage booster in precision (if and only if you have the right traits), while power can use (Power/Precision/Ferocity).
Condition builds don’t get much of a choice in whether or not to include some tankiness in viable specs since all condition gear with the exception of Rampagers has some form of Vitality or Toughness.
Oh and did we also forget conditions get a hard cap on damage potential while power enjoys infinite stacking?
There is a reason conditions only see serious use in duels and small groups. In the rest of the game that matters, the built in limiters pretty much relegate them to trash tier.
Literally the only benefit of condition damage is bypassing armor, and making people too stubborn to educate themselves cry a lot.
Edit: the soft CC and debuff however can be pretty evil; but that is not a condition damage problem so much as it is a stacking problem similar to how problematic boon stacking is.
(edited by Overkillengine.6084)
I use iMage for shatter fodder. It technically has less use that a clone since it doesn’t look like my character AND does not reliably do anything useful outside of shattering.
If you are really good there are things you can do to avoid the torment stacks from the scepter block.
One of my guild members likes to run condi thief and tears PU users apart.
But you don’t have to be a condi user to trash a PU user; you just have to not mindlessly spam your important things like stuns and roots.
Getting stunned or rooted at the wrong moment on a PU Mesmer is a death sentence vs a competent player.
It absolutely has worth; because your argument subscribes to the fallacy that since perfect balance does not exist, there should be no attempt at analysis to determine why certain runes are outliers and potentially figure out what can be done to bring them in line with or at least closer to the baseline of the other runes.
Which is inane. Handle it.
Your argument assumes that all anyone wants to do is kill something as fast as possible which is not the case. Sure in PvE but in PvP Lyssa runes was a prime example of utility over damage.
In PvE you might as well assume full buffs so 25 stacks of might. Then the difference is the damage modifier so the gap isn’t that big if you assume 25 stacks of might.
Ogre use to be better then old strength even when it had it’s 5% modifier ogre was still better with it’s 4% but ferocity change hurt it.
Rune of Privateer summon a Parrot how is the parrot suppose to compete with the damage of raw stats unless you make the parrot OP(I’ve heard it hits hard though). It would need to attack often, not die easily, and then it’s ranged also so it has an advantage. Still how is a parrot suppose to be balanced against 7% damage?
There are more examples but create a death nova when down how is that suppose to complete with even a 2% damage modifier. Some runes though they are bad from a DPS standpoint exist for utility and niche uses.
Really what is needed is a separate thread with Rune Rework suggestions for bad runes.
There still will be a top dps rune no matter what condition damage runes are actually pretty good imo now. The direct damage runes need some love and support/healing runes need love.
If I wanted to be the best healer I could the choice is easy it’s monk and it gives me +25% healing effectiveness out going it’s not a selfish rune but it is the best healing rune in the game by far. We aren’t trying to nerf that though because it’s healing I guess. It’s ok to have a best power rune, best precision rune, best condition rune, etc… if all you focus on is dps.
Yet another attempt at misrepresenting the issue.
The issue is not that Strength Runes are one of if not the best power DPS rune right now.
The issue is that they are clearly over budget on their bonuses; which completely craps all over any semblance of balance within the runes, because they are so good to such a large degree that there is no reason to choose anything else that is also damage oriented unless you are either poor, or have a chub for gimping yourself.
Take out the extra tier 4 bonus, and they’ll probably still be the best for generic power dps- big effing deal.
And if there are crap runes that no one takes then of course those should be fixed too so that they are at least ambiguously valid choices instead of what we have now.
Let’s do a comparison:
Superior Rune of Strength
(1): +25 Power
(2): +10% Might Duration
(3): +50 Power
(4): 15% Might duration; 25% chance when struck to gain Might for 10 seconds. (Cooldown: 5s)
(5): +100 Power
(6): +20% Might duration; +7% damage while under the effects of Might.Superior Rune of the Privateer
(1): +25 Power
(2): +10% Might Duration
(3): +50 Power
(4): 25% chance to shout Yarr and grant 3 stacks Might to nearby allies when hit. (cooldown: 20s)
(5): +100 Power
(6): +50% chance to summon a Parrot. (Cooldown: 60s)Superior Rune of the Fire
(1): +25 Power
(2): +10% Might Duration
(3): +50 Power
(4): 25% chance to gain Might for 10s when hit. (cooldown: 5s)
(5): +90 Power
(6): +20% Burning Duration. Gain a fire aura for 5s when you fall below 80% health. (Cooldown: 60s)Superior Rune of the Aristocracy
(1): +25 Condition Damage
(2): +10% Might duration
(3): +50 Condition Damage
(4): +15% Might duration
(5): +100 Condition Damage
(6): +20% Might duration; when you use a healing skill, gain 3 stacks of Might for 10s. (Cooldown: 10s)Superior Rune of Hoelbrak
(1): +25 Power
(2): +10% Might Duration
(3): +50 Power
(4): 25% chance to gain Might for 10s when hit. (Cooldown: 5s)
(5): +100 Power
(6): +20% Might Duration, -20% Condition Duration applied to you.See the glaring difference? Strength runes effectively get two significant bonuses at tier 4. Don’t be surprised if one of those two bonuses gets the axe. And even if that does happen, they’ll probably still be top dog in the power dps boosting category.
this type of comparison to other runes is absolutely worthless.
any notion of “all rune sets created equal” is completely wrong, there are and always will be bad/mediocre rune sets that get ignored for better ones.
a handful of rune sets are always going to dominate the meta, there simply isn’t enough intricacy in this game’s build system for this to not happen.
It absolutely has worth; because your argument subscribes to the fallacy that since perfect balance does not exist, there should be no attempt at analysis to determine why certain runes are outliers and potentially figure out what can be done to bring them in line with or at least closer to the baseline of the other runes.
Which is inane. Handle it.
Difference is that warrior cc skills all have insane animations, meanwhile deatshroud #3 has no cast-time and can only be dodged with luck. Staff #5 also poor animation.
Deathshroud 3 should have a long kitten telegraphed animation like Earthshaker so that even my grandma could dodge it, while blindfolded and on life support.
If that were to happen then it should get AE and a similar base damage coefficient to Earthshaker to keep it even remotely fair. It’ll still have a lower base CC duration and recharge and a stricter resource gateway.
And then I’ll look forward to the inevitable whines when a Necro Dooms an entire group off a ledge.
And those same people will overlook that other classes can pull off the same thing faster and without any warning.
/popcorn
On a guardian, which rune would be better? Would Guardians benefit more from the condi removal from shouts? Or would the -condi duration be better for a guardian?
Superior Rune of Melandru
+25 Toughness
+35 Vitality
+50 Toughness
-10% Incoming Condition Duration; -10% Incoming Stun Duration
+100 Toughness
-15% Incoming Condition Duration; -15% Incoming Stun DurationSuperior Rune of the Trooper
+25 Vitality
+35 Toughness
+50 Vitality
+65 Toughness
+100 Vitality
Shouts remove a condition from each affected ally.
Solo/extremely small teams/etc dps builds: Melandru.
Group/shouts: Trooper.
Trust me, once you get a critical mass of Trooper runed shout Guardians and shout Warriors together, it makes Melandru look like crap.
Let’s do a comparison:
Superior Rune of Strength
(1): +25 Power
(2): +10% Might Duration
(3): +50 Power
(4): 15% Might duration; 25% chance when struck to gain Might for 10 seconds. (Cooldown: 5s)
(5): +100 Power
(6): +20% Might duration; +7% damage while under the effects of Might.
Superior Rune of the Privateer
(1): +25 Power
(2): +10% Might Duration
(3): +50 Power
(4): 25% chance to shout Yarr and grant 3 stacks Might to nearby allies when hit. (cooldown: 20s)
(5): +100 Power
(6): +50% chance to summon a Parrot. (Cooldown: 60s)
Superior Rune of the Fire
(1): +25 Power
(2): +10% Might Duration
(3): +50 Power
(4): 25% chance to gain Might for 10s when hit. (cooldown: 5s)
(5): +90 Power
(6): +20% Burning Duration. Gain a fire aura for 5s when you fall below 80% health. (Cooldown: 60s)
Superior Rune of the Aristocracy
(1): +25 Condition Damage
(2): +10% Might duration
(3): +50 Condition Damage
(4): +15% Might duration
(5): +100 Condition Damage
(6): +20% Might duration; when you use a healing skill, gain 3 stacks of Might for 10s. (Cooldown: 10s)
Superior Rune of Hoelbrak
(1): +25 Power
(2): +10% Might Duration
(3): +50 Power
(4): 25% chance to gain Might for 10s when hit. (Cooldown: 5s)
(5): +100 Power
(6): +20% Might Duration, -20% Condition Duration applied to you.
See the glaring difference? Strength runes effectively get two significant bonuses at tier 4. Don’t be surprised if one of those two bonuses gets the axe. And even if that does happen, they’ll probably still be top dog in the power dps boosting category.
Actually the issue with stealth isn’t just that the victim didn’t see the attacks coming; it’s that bonus damage was also often added in just for being stealthed as well.
This is fine in a turn based genre where the mechanic originated because the recipient has ample time to process what happened and formulate an appropriate reaction, but it breaks combat balance very quickly in a real-time game where the damage boost allows TTK to be so fast the backstab receiver does not get enough time to perceive threat→react appropriately.
Which is why the Mesmer implementation of stealth is much more palatable and somewhat less complained about, because it was not treated as damage boosting effect on top of the other benefits it inherently grants. It’s just a tool in the class kit, not something class defining.
Just make new maps, same for each BL and EB and rotate them every month, let’s say.
Btw I believe the reson why there’s so little on these maps, they’re basicly flat green/white textures is because of technical requirements. Game is still meh at best optimized and each tree, waterfall or building would further slow down older PCs and make the zerg clashes even more laggy.
I’m all after new maps, more objects, but first optimize the game or eliminate massive zerging.
Part of the reason I suggested weather effects especially on the more complex terrain types is you can use them to reduce the draw distance needed on those maps.
Thinking on DPS tests for dire vs. soldiers, there is one small problem of debatable importance, which is the existence of poison and burning. DPS tests assume that all dodges affect all damage equally and are thus negligible, which is perfectly true in the case of stack conditions, but potentially incorrect for conditions that stack in duration. Depending on the method of applications, burning and poison can be maintained perfectly regardless of dodges, so long as it is reapplied every once in a while or has sufficient duration. For example, while dodging an engineer’s bleed or confusion stacks will reduce his DPS with those conditions by an equivalent amount to power attacks, it will not affect his DPS with burning at all so long as he can proc incendiary ammo soon enough to keep it up.
Not sure how much that would actually affect condi DPS tests at all, but something to think about for sure, as is the fact that I got a Dire ascended chest from a PvP chest and now have to make my engi condi regardless of my feelings on the matter.
On the bright side I’m going to be doing a lot more PvP.
It will absolutely affect the Engi’s DPS if you happen to avoid/nullify the attack the Burn proc was riding on; thus putting the proc back on cooldown with no applied effect. (depending on duration vs cooldown)
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All condition damage is sustained
The sustained damage that is limitless in application does most of the work.
Interesting.
And of course no power builds have an auto attack which is also by any logical definition sustained damage as well. Or other smaller spammable attacks outside of big hitters.
You’d retain a lot more credibility in your complaints if you weren’t so desperate to cherry pick.
Well one hammer warrior in a crowd isn’t too bad to deal with.
It’s when you get trained by multiple warriors all with leg specialist that it starts seeming horrible if you don’t have stability and cleanses ready.
People didn’t realize how good of an offensive group support weapon it was at first so it was not popular.
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Plus depending on the Armor/Weapon/Trinket stat arrays that were used, some pieces saw more of a reduction that others, possibly leading to a sharper than expected crit damage reduction.
That seems to be a poorly thought out concern. If someone “overloads” a target with conditions, then everything is on cooldown. Any player worth their salt would use their cleanses at that time, and the enemy is now doing no damage, with all of their skills on cooldown. If your losing to a player who is doing no damage and has all of their skills on cool down, then your loss was based on your actions. And as we all know, no one on the forums could possibly be at fault for their own actions. Clearly by default it must mean everything that beats you is OP.
People don’t want to have to choose. You either get to spec for large amounts of damage; whether it be power or condition, and have to leave at least one hole in your defenses, or accept that you want broad spectrum defenses but give up some potential offense in return.
If condi-cleansing was viable on it’s own, then no one would have ever started running Melandru and Lemon grass, right? Follow the logic on this one.
Melandru and Lemongrass aren’t the only options.
Open your eyes and look for the group condition management options. They exist, and dovetail to remove conditions far better than solo special snowflake Melandru+Lemongrass.
Once you hit critical mass with them you basically can write off enemy condition users in even fights; and if they are bad at it, even in fights where you are outnumbered.
But it does require that one not be the usual l337 zerker max dps retread.
The gear combinations was probably a mostly unspoken additional reason; you were basically getting to play with a build set to 11 statistically while everyone else was limited to 10 if you knew how to best allocate your gear choices.
That was the only really glaring imbalance when it came to crit damage allocation. The rest of it could have been largely fixed with less stupid AI and better content design (mobs that use more conditions, connect with attacks more often, have more toughness instead of being HP blobs, etc.).
But that would have taken a lot more work and time.
The truth is Anet created a higher need for full zerk in pve with less tolerance for the person to slip in with a condi build of pvt. In wvw/pvp all they did was make condis stronger by nerfing direct damage.
So most builds will look like this for high game play in each mode
PvE = Full zerk no defense stats at all (higher skill cap, newer/less skilled players can’t pull it off.
PvP = Condi/Precision/Vit or tough builds will be very prevelant. Expect to see more condi warriors/necros/mesmers/thieves and less direct damage build (the entire guardian class).
WvW = Dire. Everywhere. All day. Buy the gear before the price goes through the roof.
And then all those Dire users get mowed down by a properly built and played power train in WvW.
I’m not talking about zerg fights. Those will remain pretty much the same. I’m talking about small scale roaming. trust me a group of dire users would melt a group of pvt users at a camp in a heartbeat….
My guild does a lot of 5 man roaming/camp and tower flipping until more log on and we have enough to zerg hunt or go after a keep.
Take 2 warriors, 2 guardians, and an elementalist, properly build them to handle conditions as a team instead of the usual solo special snowflake builds, and you might be surprised at how well it works.
And that composition scales infinitely without having to worry about damage caps.
One of my guildmates combined this with some confusion proc traits…..the results were disgustingly hilarious.
You have to give up PU to pull it off though. Devs did a decent job of forcing a choice there.
Sorry, which confusion proc traits you are talking about? Let me try it later when I get home.
You can trait for Confusion on shatters.
You can trait for Confusion on Blind. (and also trait for Blind on foes in glamours)
All these are in the Illusion tree.
Combine these with the Torment on shatter, sprinkle with other condition application (hint: Doom/Torment/Earth sigils), and watch people react with a mix of panic and dismay.
But to pull it off you will have to either give up PU or Deceptive Evasion. Like I said before, a good job on the Dev’s part at forcing a pretty major choice.
Either way a new build type for people to complain about. I’m just waiting for the fix to Illusionary Elasticity and staff clones.
The rivers of tears will be delicious.
The might does, but you don’t deal much self-damage with bleeds, is my point. Its not all that big of a deal in PvE if you have some bleeding on you.
The worst that is likely to happen in a power build is you have plenty of +duration somehow and the bleeds last long to still be on you about the time you’d normally need to use Consume Conditions anyways.
Oh darn?
Well, having the bleeds still on you and thus keeping you in combat could be annoying in a few niche cases, but if you are on a Necromancer, you should already be resigned to rarely ever being able to retreat once you engage.
The truth is Anet created a higher need for full zerk in pve with less tolerance for the person to slip in with a condi build of pvt. In wvw/pvp all they did was make condis stronger by nerfing direct damage.
So most builds will look like this for high game play in each mode
PvE = Full zerk no defense stats at all (higher skill cap, newer/less skilled players can’t pull it off.
PvP = Condi/Precision/Vit or tough builds will be very prevelant. Expect to see more condi warriors/necros/mesmers/thieves and less direct damage build (the entire guardian class).
WvW = Dire. Everywhere. All day. Buy the gear before the price goes through the roof.
And then all those Dire users get mowed down by a properly built and played power train in WvW.
Personally I don’t run Boon Duration builds as a Guardian (not my style of play) but I do have to agree with the OP. If you ran 45% Boon Duration through the Water/Monk/Traveller then you knew you were giving up a 6/6 bonus but that’s how Boon Duration is supposed to be played. Their reasoning was they wanted people to encourage players to use 6/6 runes. So why not just create a 6/6 Boon Duration rune? Not everyone will use it but it solves the whole problem with people who use to run the 2/6+2/6+2/6 Water/Monk/Traveler runes.
How can you not see a 45% general boon duration rune competes with every other boon rune out there I don’t know.
Now you have burst eles running runes of strength. When the super defensive bunker players stop moaning asking for something they wont get they can eventually run 6/6 water or 6/6 monk or 6/6 dwayna or 6/6 earth runes. You see
Strength, Earth, Monk, Water, Altruism, Grove etc… they all compete with each other believe it or not. You give out a rune giving 45% boon duration then there is no reason to run any other rune set because general is better then specialized if you have easy access to boons.
Exactly. If there is an easy way to get a global bonus that matches or exceeds a specific bonus, the choice of the specific bonus may as well not exist.
And games that do not have valid choice but rather the illusion of choice tend to not be as successful if at all.
Otherwise you may as well argue that the Celestial stat array give a bonus equal the primary stat on other sets, but to ALL stats. Sure you could choose one of the other arrays but why would you?
See how silly this comes across?
Meh; just transfer/consume the bleed stacks.
One of my guildmates combined this with some confusion proc traits…..the results were disgustingly hilarious.
You have to give up PU to pull it off though. Devs did a decent job of forcing a choice there.
Low mobility builds would have an easier time; since broken terrain would allow them to duck behind cover faster.
Small groups could make hit and run attacks far more effectively against a zerg for the same reason.
Getting a mass of people from A to B cohesively would be more difficult and time consuming.
These are not bad things.
It took them the better portion of a decade, iirc. They had that luxury of time due to being a niche MMO. I doubt GW2 has that luxury given the slot they are competing in.
Which is the problem with the 40% global condition duration +/- foods. If they did not exist at that power level we’d likely not hear near as many complaints about condition builds splattering people unless they were built a very specific way. Granted; we’d still hear some from the section that think they should not have to carry a single condition management tool in their build, but whatever, haters gonna hate.
So, how do you figure in the sPvP complaints, which are all done in a no-food setting?
“Granted; we’d still hear some from the section that think they should not have to carry a single condition management tool in their build, but whatever, haters gonna hate.”
There seems to be a portion of the population that does not want to grasp that they cannot build to withstand all forms of attack without sacrificing offense/support; or the inverse that they cannot build to kill everything without leaving holes in their defenses.
For some reason they hate having to choose; and want to have a build that covers everything that matters, which is the very definition of OP. So they clamor to have at least some of the valid options removed to effectively make those non choices which means they don’t have to defend against what is not getting used.
Edit: That doesn’t mean there aren’t individual abilities that need adjusting; but when I see someone ranting that all conditions are a problem and that they all need nerfed regardless of the mode, it rings my “this person is a whiny entitled kitten” alarm.
(edited by Overkillengine.6084)
I find Mesmer stealth to be better implemented than Thief stealth, and far less annoying to deal with.
To me, Thief stealth implementation commits the classic MMO design error of granting a significant damage bonus to some attacks when stealthed (pretty much every weapon auto except short-bow and sword get a massive damage increase); which lends itself to “kill the enemy before they can react” game-play which is not exactly fun for the victim, and usually results in the classes with that particular mechanic getting balanced so that that are completely reliant on it to the point all other styles are moot.
(Another point of comparison: DAOC Shadowblade vs a spear+beast specced Hunter. The first was heavily stealth reliant for DPS and survival; many complaints on both sides abounded. The latter used stealth as tool but was not nearly as helpless when it didn’t work. I never heard much if any complaint about spear+beast Hunters being lopsided fights.)
Which is kind of crappy for multiple reasons if you sit down and think about it. Why the GW2 devs decided to make that error that the GW1 devs avoided especially irks me given that there is also decades of history in MMO’s that shows how badly such implementation skews everything else.
My preferred version is that all global +/- 40% foods would get adjusted downward to 10% to stay in line with the trait-line ratio of 10 power = 1% condition duration.
Then also at the same time review the specific condition duration foods (if I recall correctly there is only + duration for Poison/Burning/Chill) and put them on a comparable schedule to -40% Stun duration foods like Bowl of Roasted Lotus Root. That way you can still cap duration bonuses for a specific condition your build relies on but not all of them. This also leaves room for other condition duration foods to be added and have them actually get used.
[Insert rant here about game design and having actual valid choices in game-play versus merely the illusion of valid choices.]
For foods like Saffron Bread I would recommend changing their secondary global -20% condition duration bonus to something like – Stun/Fear/Daze duration to cement them as anti CC food, and prevent them from becoming the de facto most powerful anti-condition food remaining.
It’s more fair to say that tanky builds lend themselves to conditions than the other way around, since conditions require more time to kill someone than a glass cannon power-crit burst.
I almost never hear of someone using a large amount of Rampager’s gear outside of certain Thief or Mesmer builds who have other ways to avoid damage. I speculate the same would hold true for a Condition-Precision-Duration array if it were to exist.
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It doesn’t; it just makes another button for people to press on cool-down like all the other boons, or adds to the current rotations.
Plus there would need be additional work to decide what it corrupts into since it would be considered a boon.
The layouts could be the same as far as portal/camp/keep positions but having the map terrain and fauna themes vary would help a lot to alleviate tedium.
Grasslands – what the borderlands are now. Open field, high mobility, far visibility.
Deep Forest – Dense cover; low visibility and frequent short breaks in LOS; tends to scatter zergs due to navigating around trees.
Glacial Valley – scattered chunks of rock deposits litter the area forming impromptu cover and concealment for ambushes; constant snowstorms limit long range visibility. Wandering through water on foot procs Chill.
Scattered Islands – portals/camps/keeps are located on islands; majority of other terrain is aquatic. Dolyaks replaced with Quaggan supply runners. Consider giving some towers/keeps additional underwater entrances to partially mitigate how difficult it would be to siege from range; or place convenient reefs/outcroppings for doing so.
Volcanic Mountains – rocky broken terrain threaded with lava flows and pools (environmental hazard!) instead of rivers. Dolyaks replaced with supply golems. Periodic ash rains in unprotected areas that proc burning and blindness.
Fetid Swamps – dense thickets of grass and brush as well as moss curtains and persistent fog harshly limit visibility outside of the torchlit paths. Swamp gas eruptions (poison) a hazard in some areas. Shallow water covers most of the zone; which leaves telltale ripples and noise if you move quickly.
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In addition, weakness/protection only affects power damage, but on the other hand cond damage ticks cannot critical hit.
Also, +/- 40% power damage food would be perfectly fine, as long as conditions cannot be removed, so max damage output occurs in both ways
Actually no they wouldn’t be fine since the effect would be so powerful that they override any semblance of rational choice in whether or not to use them. You’d be gibbing people before they could react or do anything about you.
Which is the problem with the 40% global condition duration +/- foods. If they did not exist at that power level we’d likely not hear near as many complaints about condition builds splattering people unless they were built a very specific way. Granted; we’d still hear some from the section that think they should not have to carry a single condition management tool in their build, but whatever, haters gonna hate.
Look, I like my condition builds. But I can recognize just how obscenely powerful +40% duration makes them if for no other reason than it enables me to keep cover conditions up with little effort or sacrifice, which means I’m clubbing people like they were baby seals if they don’t run a -40% food/Melandru/completely dedicated anti-condition build.
But if I don’t run that food and I run up against someone who is doing that counter as a condition build, I’m reduced to ineffectual flailing.
That’s not exactly a healthy balance. Both of them need to be brought in to a more sane level.
(edited by Overkillengine.6084)
By that logic +1000% food is balanced as long as we can run a -1000% food too.
Which is rather silly.
This is correct.
If you’re going to analyze a food, what you should actually do is look at how it effects the game if it’s counterpart is NOT used.
100 Power/10% crit dmg? Strong, but not overly so.
15% Chill/70 Condi dmg? Good if you have a lot of chill.
40% Condi Duration/70 Condi dmg? Game-changing.Someone explain why you can get 40% duration to all condis with food, but if you specialize in a condition, it only gives 15% duration. I’ll wait.
you are not guaranteed that the extra 40% duration will last its full duration. while on the other hand with 100 power/10%crit damage you get those stats and damage as soon as you apply the food and hit anything.
that is what the difference is might now seam like a huge difference but guaranteed damage is much better than possible damage in my opinion.
You are not guaranteed to hit for the full damage (weakness/protection) or at all (blind; aegis; evades; invuln) with power attacks either. Some of those even work
versus condition bearing attacks.
So not really a relevant argument for the status quo of the duration foods. Because by that logic +/- 40% power damage food would be perfectly fine.
By that logic +1000% food is balanced as long as we can run a -1000% food too.
Which is rather silly.
Should we be forced to build around countering conditions? I personally don’t think so.
I have to disagree. Without conditions as a strong enough threat to force some variation in builds, boon bunkers become the de facto king over all pvp modes.
Which sounds wonderful if that’s all you want to play but to the rest of us it will get very boring because there is no longer any variety left. And without enough players the game dies so then even the former players don’t get their wish in the long term either.
To me these complaints just come down to people wanting to not to have to choose.
One can build for a effective combination of some of the following: power damage, power mitigation, condition damage, condition mitigation, and a sprinkling of support/healing. You can realistically right now choose for only some of these which forces players to either leave a hole in their defenses, or sacrifice one of the other areas.
People need to nut up and realize they don’t get to have it all.
What about just make protection do 33% less condition damage as it does for direct damage?
Because condition damage is one of the ways to get around Protection.
And without the ability of conditions to bypass armor and boons; boon spam bunkers becomes the de facto supreme ruler of all pvp formats.
You might think you want that but really….you do not.
Just throwing this out there but what about instead of decreasing the cap they add in a debuff if so many people on the same team are in a small area, i.e. zergs? I feel like decreasing the cap is more of a bandaid fix than a real solution.
Adding in extra things for the servers to track when there is already too many people in one spot for good performance would not be an even remotely optimal solution.
Except your solution is not well engineered as has already been pointed out repeatedly.
As I’ve pointed out repeatedly that we aren’t the engineers, as it’s neither our role nor our duty to do so, and ANet has or is building precisely what they need to do this properly.
I am not the troll.
So option B then, gotcha.
Actually they can’t do it because the engine already starts to crap itself at the current limits.
And throwing more server clusters into the pile isn’t going to automagically fix a software and infrastructure limitation as some would like to believe.
The only likely way outside of an engine rewrite/new engine to improve performance is to give players and incentive to spread out across the servers and zones instead of gathering into lag-blobs.
The most direct way to do that is via a mix of negative and positive incentives; negative being a lower zone cap and thus queues, positive being a free transfer to a lower populated server.
Except your solution is not well engineered as has already been pointed out repeatedly.
You are either one oddly dedicated troll or in dire need of a major reality check.
+40% is not overpowered.
at most it will add maybe 4s to some bleeds.
It often amounts to an extra hard tick, or just enough additional time to take an extra burst, or just enough extra time to chain chill/cripple permanently much more easily.
There’s no reason it should exist on food, imo.
Not at that level as a global value no.
The global +/- duration foods should be closer to 10-15% at best, with the specific condition duration +/- foods at the higher bonuses for builds that want to focus on boosting/mitigating a desired condition.
Doing that would tone down the stupid food arms wars that indirectly causes a lot of the complaints; as well as makes a broader variety of foods more worthwhile to actually make for using instead of craft grinding.
INTRO:
Snipped for brevity and not feeling the need to repeat questionable “logic”
Just run Melandru + Lemongrass if you want to roam solo, or learn to build a proper team build in a group.
Oh wait, you don’t want to do that because you’d actually have to choose something other than your preferred build and want to have everything on that one right?
Of course not.
All i got from this thread > OP “you have to stop liking things i don’t like!!!!” people with your personality should be shot into the sun. Just because YOU don’t like smaller servers doesn’t mean that they aren’t justified in their existance. You would have fit right in during 1940’s germany though, that was a very popular personality then, op.
Inb4 infraction, the op deserves it, he should feel bad
Inb4 you comment on my home server, i am ex uw player (bronze eu league) moved to gh with guild last year because we had issues with uw, and it was only reasonable choice at time as we had guildies there allready.
We could call the proposed “solution” a “final solution” because it would put the nails in WvW’s coffin very quickly.
Don’t do it! Run for your life!! Get out while you still can!!!
It’s too late…for me. But you can still save yourself!
Been playing a siphoning build since launch and nothing else (4,000+ hours put into a blood necro). It can work – barely – if you don’t mind having to constantly play to your best every second of combat while burdened with poorly designed attrition, life stealing, and sustain mechanics. Think of it as GW2 Hard Mode. There are certainly easier and less frustrating builds available.
This. I used to run heavy Death/Blood for months after release like some sort of masochistic freak.
If you like hard mode, go right ahead.