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The trait is a cool idea, but has a horrid execution due the realities the class labors under.
Having the original tags being purchasable for 100G was bad enough since all it did was ensure that money, not experience or competency, was the gateway to being a commander.
But the currently proposed changes to commander tags?
This is the WRONG place to be putting in a gold sink. If anything, all current tags should be refunded and instead be purchased with enough badges so one at least has set foot in WvW at all and fought/captured things to purchase a tag. Or even Guild influence. Just about anything other than this proposed tripe. WvW already has a ton of other gold sinks above and beyond PvE and sPvP as it is, on top of lower average gold earnings.
Gating what should have been default WvW coordination functionality since RELEASE behind a frankly obscene gold sink on top of the glacially slow progress of WvW updates is a great way to lower the already low customer loyalty and thus future profits.
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This is the WRONG place to be putting in a gold sink. If anything, all current tags should be refunded and instead be purchased with enough badges so one at least has set foot in WvW at all and fought/captured things to purchase a tag.
Gating what should have been default coordination functionality behind a gold sink is poor customer service. What’s next, not letting us group unless we pay a fee each time?
Just don’t observe that they have an entitlement problem or you’ll get infracted like I did.
Krait is better for bleed centric builds because the +bleed duration with the poison and torment as cover conditions happen to dovetail well.
Unfortunately the trigger condition on Perplexity is silly easy to spam on more than a couple builds making the set way more powerful in practice than it probably was intended to be. Multiple things count as an interrupt.
I’ve seen this before mentioned but spamming interrupts for the 6/6 is greatly counter productive. Say on engi you can shield 4 + shield 5, flame thrower 3 and for your efforts you received 5 stacks of confusion and all those skills on cooldown. Now your without 3 interrupts 2 of which are on long 30 and 40 sec. CD’s.
Not disagreeing with your assessment that perplexity still is the strongest condition rune I agree. To be fair though if you have no confusion on your enemy scavenging and undead are out dpsing perplexity until confusion is applied again.
Engineer wasn’t one of the ones I was thinking about actually. I was referring to ones that have mainly easy to obtain resource bound interrupts with cooldowns that are either non existent or far lower than the cooldown on the Perplexity 6 piece.
Those builds can (spam) force your opponent to run out of dodges or immunities, and you will be ready to repeat that again once the rune ICD is done. The enemy will often have gotten only enough endurance back for one dodge at that time. (If the 6 piece ICD was 20 seconds this would be a different story, or if more classes had access to baseline at least one evasion every 10 seconds)
The builds/classes I am alluding to also have access to immunities or stealth which on top of better interrupt availability makes the runeset far nastier on them for the unprepared.
If they just limited it to one type of cc trigger instead of all interrupts that would cut out a lot of the shenanigans.
Krait is better for bleed centric builds because the +bleed duration with the poison and torment as cover conditions happen to dovetail well.
Unfortunately the trigger condition on Perplexity is silly easy to spam on more than a couple builds making the set way more powerful in practice than it probably was intended to be. Multiple things count as an interrupt.
It’s an improvement, and I suppose all we can expect form a panic-patch, but I hope when designing future content they do a better job with it, if they feel a desire to force a zerg to split, they need to do a better job of keeping the player informed as to how many players a specific area needs and how many they have, so we aren’t left fumbling to figure it out for ourselves.
This. The base reward scheme wasn’t so bad (not great either, but whatever), it was the complete lack of decent in game coordination tools and feedback.
The event as is still relies too much on external coordination tools to complete efficiently. Can it be done? Sure. Will most players feel up to the effort based on the reward? Well, the last few days spoke pretty loudly for that.
Upping the rewards was one way to bandaid it; but the core issue still remains- event UI design not being comprehensive enough to allow for easy coordination without using external tools.
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The scaling is the problem. Why does it take 30 people 10 times as long to kill a boss than it does 6 people? The 30 people are already disadvantaged reward-wise.
Unfortunately is has to be that way with the scaling otherwise if would just devolve right back into the usual “zerg it down instead of playing well” mentality.
The whole thing Anet is likely hoping to train the player base out of with the last few event designs.
Because their attack chains have big enough gaps that you can just avoid most of their big hitter damage natively, and they are usually so poor at tracking a moving target that running around like it was an episode of Benny Hill handles the rest.
Just to point out, back at launch there werent nearly as many bunkers.
You know why they become popular? Because of insta-gib builds from professions like Thief and Mesmer, that didnt need any defense and could rely on other abilities to survive (stealth/teleport/clone).
And would blow anyone up that wasnt a bunker.Anyone who complained about absurd burst was simply met with “l2build defensively”. And they did.
So the stupid burst-builds that still exist today are atleast complicit in the proliferation of Bunkers.
Bingo.
And as pointed out further down, building defensively isn’t any more inherently without skill than it is to build to one shot anyone that isn’t a bunker.
Good for the goose, good for the gander.
Now, if you wanted both extremes brought in simultaneously, people might be persuaded to listen to any arguments you actually bother to bring forth without them being automatically dismissed as ludicrous.
My guild will usually target Necromancers first because they usually can’t slip away; then Guardians (also usually slow) or someone that is observably squishy and/or lacking stability. (’zerker geared players dumb enough to get within reach of the tank train are a favorite, etc)
Picking on the defensively weakest available targets first is the fastest way to reduce the potential damage output of the enemy team.
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Go ahead and get the nodes because even if most of the things you could craft are missing generation of the other ingredients like what has happened with candy corn; it still has eventual value for a sanctum supply box turn in to get other things. And you’ll still be able to build up another reserve by next halloween.
While I certainly applaud the changes to exotic dungeon gear to be account bound; please consider also updating the runes to be account bound on acquire too.
This affects more than just dungeon runners since combining major runes in the Mystic Forge can result in a soulbound superior rune.
This is an extra penalty compared to the usual flushing shenanigans because a character can receive a superior rune they have no use for and:
Can’t use it on another character.
Can’t toss it back into the toilet for another chance.
Can’t sell it to someone who does want it.
Please change the dungeon runes to be either account bound on acquire -or- at least remove them as an option on the mystic forge table to prevent this tripe.
Or just revert the change that prevents us from flushing superior runes we don’t want.
Or if you are feeling super awesome customer servicey I’m relatively sure the population as a whole wouldn’t mind having the soulbind on acquire removed in combination with allowing us to flush superior runes again.
There are far less irritating ways to implement a wealth sink than what is being done right now.
Undercutting is an intended feature of the economy. It will either happen on the TP or off it if you keep trying to “fix” it. Adapt and handle it.
The only one driving you into the poorhouse is yourself.
Having that long tether range to chase/engage someone is great and all, but having them nearby and ready to rumble in the first place is arguably of greater utility. Someone that has fled from me outside of weapon range is lower priority than the person still trying to fight me point blank, and having Drooly the wonder golem faffing about at 1900+ range picking daisies is not defined as “helping”. (Someone that ran that far can outrun the golem and reset combat usually, so I need all hands on deck to end the in my face fight I am in asap before they come back.)
Charr armor in general with just a few exceptions was handled very poorly. They have a different enough morphology that just copypasta+ deforming the meshes and textures, while efficient in resources and manpower, ends up looking really bad.
And that’s ignoring they have physiological differences that would affect their clothing choices…like fur. Something that a human could wear comfortably would rapidly cause overheating on a creature that is both larger in mass and has a built in insulating layer like fur.
(In before “but people also throw fireballs and there are dragons!” red herring. There is a concept called suspension of disbelief. Look it up and realize that making basic stuff like racial clothing choices reflect certain mundane realities such as climate and physiology is the key to immersive fiction.)
Any ranger that has ever popped his elite skill, that roots people, can tell you that some specs are just completely shut down once immobilized.
..not to mention that half the classes in the game have no way to kill the roots.
…and stability won’t help you either.
A Ranger and Well bomb Necro working together is just obscene.
They really need a much shorter/responsive “too far from master – drop combat and teleport to master” leash.
If an enemy runs over 1200 units away from me; they cease to be a concern to me in favor of whomever is still within that range.
So technically running Mesmer at all is the opportunity cost there.
And this is the actual problem, not runes of strength.
The lack of a good counter is exacerbating the problem, true, but that does not change that objectively comparing the runes to other runes that grant similar bonuses leads to the conclusion that the runes themselves are also a bit over budget and are due some shaving.
Heck, I’m running a “weaker” rune set for Might stacking on a power Necro and so far it’s working very well. Almost too well.
True, Mesmer would be the best counter available; but they don’t bring enough of other things that also work reliably enough outside of a duel/extremely small fights.
So technically running Mesmer at all is the opportunity cost there.
For power attrition try building for DS and life blast might/vuln stacking. Daggers are great for killing the crap out of someone fast and getting some health back; but I found it was easier to outlast people in power using staff/axe+warhorn and camping in DS as much as I could in between consume condition recharges. The range lets you vulture from the edge of the fight until you get enough lifeforce built up. And once you are in DS, the longer the fight goes on the more might and vuln stacks are active and thus the harder you hit.
It’s not that it doesn’t exist, it doesn’t exist in enough quantity/quality to be able to consider these runes balanced. 7% for having any might at all (which is very extremely to get) is too much. Things like the eng’s throw mine (the field toolbelt skill doesn’t remove any) are terrible and remove 1 boon. You’re almost certainly going to have more than just that one boon and be able to reapply the strength faster than the cooldown. Sorry if my post was confusing.
Ahh ok I think I misunderstood
That and often the sacrifices to obtain said boon removal/theft/corruption trade off too much just to be able to slow down a Might stacking build for a few seconds.
Basically the counters only really exist in an intellectual fashion rather than a practical one.
Which makes it tempting to just buff the everliving hell out of the boon removal options, the issue with that approach is it will completely shut down the option of running any other boon dependent build that isn’t a Might stacker. Which is a zero sum gain in exchange for the effort of making such changes when you think about it.
Which leaves adjusting the nail (rune) that is poking up above the others with a hammer.
Your Lingering Marks idea is really great and it would actually be worthy of a gm spot, unlike Unholy Sanctuary which is so weak it might as well have become one of the new minor traits.
Have Mark of Blood leave a small water field
A 2 sec waterfield every ~5.5sec with Staff Mastery? That, Mr Overkillengine, would be overkill.
Have Mark of Blood leave a small water field instead and change the default Well of Blood to a water field instead of light and you’d go a long way towards improving Necro group support.
If Well of Blood was changed, I’d nerf it so you needed to blast exactly once to get the same allied healing, and the self healing was nerfed a bit stronger (so one blast would take it back to ALMOST where it is now, but just a little bit weaker on yourself).
I know you always praise this skill’s healing potential, but even with cleric’s gear the group healing is weaker than what other classes can provide, and our self healing is just pathetic in its current state. If all of our healing (not just WoB) was doubled and could heal us through Death Shroud we’d actually be in an ok-ish spot.
Investing a GM and Master trait and the gear to be a one trick pony is a not inconsiderable investment. Granted you’d be one kitten good pony but that’s the point of doing something like that. And unless something elsewhere changed on the class the lack of mobility and anti CC would still mean observant enemies would shut you down fast.
The concept of a Cleric Necro just amuses me is all.
Basically, if you try to argue based on single application duration boosting, then yes, it would look as if you rarely ever get the full value of the duration boost in damage ticks.
Which is a version of lies, kitten ed lies, and statistics.
Which why I earlier refused to sit down and go to the effort of doing math I knew would be cherry picked and misrepresented, when I already knew what happens in combat. You have to take into account the whole picture not just a misleadingly favorable on paper calculation.
Also, why waste my time when those that want proof have already been told where the water is. Can’t make a horse drink.
It’s like arguing with the people that take it as holy writ that Dire gives full possible condi damage potential yet ignore that power coefficients are often better, have a greater amount of easily available multipliers, and don’t have to deal with stack mechanics past the target cap that everything deals with.
The info they need is already documented. They’re the ones that refused to educate themselves.
I think they assume/fear we are going to try to use it with the 30% DS recharge and maximized boon duration so they prenerfed it.
Problem with that approach is now it’s borderline worthless outside of min maxing it like that, and you’d give up a LOT just to do that.
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Too bad Blind does not work like it did in GW1, then dark combo fields would probably be a lot more popular.
Lingering Marks – GM Death Magic trait – all marks leave behind a field lasting for 2 seconds after using the skill. Mark of Blood – dark field, Chillblains – remains the same, Putrid Mark – poison field, Reaper’s Mark – ice field. (gasp, staff actually supporting? END OF LIFE AS WE KNOW IT)
Have Mark of Blood leave a small water field instead and change the default Well of Blood to a water field instead of light and you’d go a long way towards improving Necro group support.
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Alternate approach: do something about the atrocious cast times the class is saddled with on a lot of its skills.
Then the few reactive defense measures (BLinds, etc) Necros are given actually can be used without being prescient.
Which one I would choose would be totally dependent on how many conditions actually reach the next 1s mark. Conds, unlike crit dmg/power, often gain little or nothing from increasing the duration an additional 12%.
That is assuming you fight 1v1 only, which is rarely the case. And that you only ever apply single conditions of non-stacking ones, never refresh, never extend.
What are you talking about?
How does basing a discussion on how it effects specific condition application skills durations, have anything to do with how many opponents your fighting?Nothing you said makes any sense in relation to the post you quoted. He is stating that the original duration of a applied condition is directly relevant to duration percentage value. For example, the engineers fragmentation shot applies a 2s bleed. No matter how you cut it, this food does not in itself, effect that skills damage in any way. Engineer pistol static shock is a 3s blind/confusion. 40% food adds 1s. You only get a 33% possible damage increase.
Depends if you take into account skills that have a low base duration but also a very short recharge (or you have enough skills with the same conditions on them to make a chain)….then the duration that is wasted on one execution of the skill can potentially get get stacked for full to near full value since the engine does not immediately forget the actual duration of the applied condition.
We have boon corruption already. A bit more was added recently too.
Condition manipulation options were recently expanded slightly too.
Unfortunately these were in the form of GM traits when what really could be used is a few more solid Master or Adept traits.
Low hanging fruit tweaks:
Speed up the projectile speed on the auto and staff clones. (Terribad slow)
Speed up the projectile speed on the Warlock and/or give them something else to do in between shots in case they miss. (also terribad slow)
Something to think about:
Lowering the recharge on Chaos storm would allow Mesmers to have a support role available to then in larger scale fights, something the class could really use to justify bringing them along.
I think the reason Lich Clone wasn’t auto-attacking is because that particular skill isn’t set on auto-attack by default.
That still flipping annoys me about Lich form and other transforms….they don’t remember auto settings for some kittened reason.
I sure hope so, because if they were serious that sort of disconnect from reality is hard to reason with. Like I said before, people seem to not realize just how crappy the coefficients and limitations condition damage gets in exchange for being able to bypass armor and boons.
I think if Defiant had more of a rotational period instead of being just a constant buff, then we could instantly see some more interesting builds come out that aren’t strictly min-maxing.
Adding trinity roles won’t make pve more fun. If anything it will just assimilate it with every other mmo with just slightly different mechanics.
This. The content design is to blame for the lack of variety. Remember how much people kittened about the Toxic Alliance mobs having heavy condition usage, a downed state, and they would try to stomp and rez?
Because that content was different enough from the rest of pve that it was a shock to their system. The rest of us that pvp a lot already knew how to deal with that kind of thing so it was kind of a neat surprise to see some pve variety for a change.
If anything pve needs a content review with an eye to being a subtle training mode to get people ready for pvp like how the mobs acted in GW1.
Which means the mobs should vary more in stats, abilities and tactics, instead of being the usual stale tank n spank with arbitrary immunities slapped on willy nilly.
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^this^
your suggestion would be a huge buff to might.
the issue is that strength runes are just to powerful.
they greatly lengthen a boon that increases your damage and also increases your damage while you have that damage increasing boon,
it was obviously going to be the damage dealers rune of choice.add that to the fact that sigil of strength now only has a 1 second cooldown and a 50% trigger chance, you can permanently keep up multiple stacks.
imho they could remove the “deal 7% more damage when you have might” and it would still be a viable dps contender.
Actually just take out one of the TWO tier 4 bonus Strength Runes get and they’d just be a differently flavored Rune of Hoebrak (+7% damage while Might active instead of -20% cond duration). They are over budget, and of course, thus popular.
So I did an experiment, I used an ele and fought another ele (in spvp, where direct dmg has not been nerfed) we used scepter and spammed water auto at each other. I was using berserker while the other ele was using settler which was typical because that ele was using a condi build. We tested it out, I had 3 might the whole entire fight and only managed to won with 1k hp left over. Therefore I conclude that this is completely unacceptable and shows how op condi classes are. They have toughness and vitality to take all your dmg while spamming condi at you, <—- don’t deny this, most of you condi people run dire.
Wut.
Please tell me this was an Onion style troll.
You were both in water, spamming the auto with like 0 condi damage scaling, you were in a glass damage array, they were in a defensive array spamming an attack that did not scale off of what offensive stats they did have, you win and you conclude condi’s are OP?
So the best defense of the 15% foods existing in such a poor state compared to a 40% global food is that they are jokes?
Really? That’s just absurd. Why not say that Chewbacca lives on Endor then?
I dont run -cond. on my Ele because it natively has a high condition removal, i dont run it on my Necro because it has a natively high condition removal, i dont run it on my Thief because it has a natively high condition removal.
I dont run it on my Ranger, because im build for distance and keeping my distance, and a single utility skill is all i need in form of condition clear.
I dont run -cond. on my engineer either, and i only have Antidote (1cond/15sec cd) as condition removal. I dont know why, but conditions still never bother me.
I also dont use -cond. food on my Warrior, because my condition removal is fantastic and on-demand with just one single trait. I dont really play Mesmer or Guardian.
There, all these professions and none specifically build to counter conditions. And yet its still never a problem. I dont run -cond. food because its a waste, i dont need it. I’d rather take extra ferocity/power/precision food.
And before you ask, i mostly roam. Either solo or with a small group of friends. And none of them use -cond. food either. Pretty much for the same reasons as ive given.
So you chose to play classes and play-styles that happen to minimize conditions against you and thus desire you may have for -condition food. Gratz, have a cookie? That actually illustrates why the foods need nerfed, because if someone else did not make the same choices you did and did not run the -duration food, they greatly increase their chances of loss the moment they encounter someone using a build that maximizes enough effects with +duration food.
That’s less viable build variety out there thanks to that.
On of the things I run is a power Necro right now. I don’t use the -duration food because my particular build already gives me enough tools to handle even a + 40% duration user. I recognize that my particular build allows me the latitude to not feel forced into using at least one particular consumable. Which is great and all, but there’s more people in this game than just me.
And I still have yet to see a good reason anyone has offered for some foods to be 15% to some conditions while a 40% to all exists. Consider them a build choice if you like, hell go right ahead that just makes the case stronger for them to be EQUITABLE build choices which they are obviously not. Not even the power foods compare favorably unless your build has little to no CC/control conditions or has abundant anti condition tools. Hell, I don’t remember the last time I ever saw anyone run Orrian Truffle Soup for condition builds.
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Actually bringing the 40% foods down to something sane would mean that a spec like power necro could stand a chance in hell at slowing down a Melandru+lemongrass warrior with greatsword whom otherwise would without a change be kitten near untouchable unless you are using the +40% food.
This is an issue shared to varying extents by other power specs that need the CC/debuff conditions to stick at least some in order to be effective.
Are you spending that much time running away that a single immobilize makes the difference in a fight? Seems to me that would vary greatly from profession to profession and build to build.
What build are you using that it is a problem with?
Hmm gee immobilizes can be used for more than running away. If I have a long duration one ready right after I know an enemy blew their last cleanse for a bit and they are not running -duration food, that’s a extra time in combat I can use to walk though them and pew pew pew them in the back and they just take it.
While I take next to no damage unless they are smart enough to drop AE’s at their feet.
And that benefits my non condi damage too! Since I get a free chance to apply it unopposed/un-dodged.
That’s the kind of stuff that focusing only on the duration of the damaging conditions utterly ignores. Good luck quantifying that on paper.
There is no evidence that can be offered in text form in a complete enough manner to show the actual overall effects of said food thanks to the woeful inadequacy teh spredsheetz has when it comes to actually modelling combat.
Those who disagree with you seem to think so, and display and explain it quit thoroughly. So I disagree with your claim on this matter.
Either way it is still more evidence then you chose to display. But yes, it is a fact, that the damage specific skills can be determined very easily. As well its damage before and after food is applied can be determined. Whether it is in battle or not is irrelevant. The fact that the food you complain about has been shown to increase damage less then food you seem to be okay with.
It’s like you are being deliberately dense.
The 40% +/- duration affects ALL conditions not just the damage ones. Focusing on just the damaging ones is either myopic or disingenuous at best. The point I am trying to illuminate you with despite your persistence in trying to ignore it is that there are a host of non damaging conditions that act both offensively and defensively in a manner that cannot be so tritely quantified on paper, thus why it is pointless to try to treat a few gerrymandered calculations as some sort of holy writ that dare not be questioned.
And even that ignores the basic skeptical inquiry as to why the global duration food warrants a 40% mod when specific condition duration foods get 15%.
Do you guys need a data log to see that the sky is freaking blue as well?
I’m not going to the effort of testing something already confirmed by repeated experiences on both ends of the equations.
Kind of making the argument for the guy your arguing against here aren’t you?
We are supposed to take your word for it? You could be the worst skilled player in the game for all we know. You could be the best. You may be completely biased for no reason. The list for not taking “your word for it” as a reason to change something, could just about fill up the Grand Canyon.
When you refuse to offer any actual facts, all your doing is confirming to Anet, that there is no need to make a change. As someone who sees no need for a change, I thank you.
You also suggest you need damage logs. I do not have any idea how you came to that conclusion. All you have to do is simply look at the condition damage of a skill. Add the food to it. If a 40% increase adds another tic, then viola. You now know what damage is added to said skill. If 40% is not enough to add another tic, then you know it adds zero damage to the skill. The tool tips are very generally accurate across the board for condition damage skills.
Direct damage is considerably easy to calculate with food to compare it to before food in order to calculate the increased percentage. Figuring the DPS from there, based on cool down duration is simple.
Personally, I feel you do not care to figure it up out of the concern of proving your own claims to be reasonably inaccurate, but that is just my opinion. If you were so certain you were correct, one would think you would jump at the chance to prove it so easily.
Edit: Instead of +/-40% on all conditions they should do it related to fixed conditions just like on the runes of the centaur. (-50% against cripple) (not 50% just because of food…)
Personally, I can see a lot of logic in separating damaging conditions and damaging conditions. The problem then lies in where we lay the distinction. Vulnerability and confusion for example do literally 0 damage in themselves. The possible damage from either is extremely situation and ofen depends entirely on what other do with them in place.
Now if we are discussing this in terms of soft CC such as a separate food for cripple, chill and immobilize, while all other conditions fall under a separate food, then the dynamics of the discussion change entirely.
I refuse to do testing for you or anyone else because I already know it won’t offer a complete enough picture to prevent goalpost moving, which makes it a wasted effort on my part. If I thought people were going to take the data in good faith, and I could present complete enough data with the tools available (you can’t outside of direct observation) then I might bother.
Literally thanks to how combat works in this game and the combat log works, the only way for you to get a complete picture is for you to get two opposing competent parties to agree in good faith to repeated direct combat.
Everything else is theory craft at best, because doing a bunch of pretty princess math alone does not show the boost in combat effectiveness a build gets when ALL of the conditions it has, damaging or otherwise, gets a 40% duration extension (barring cleanse) or gets a 40% reduction in the same.
When someone gets out of range because your immob/cripple/chill did not last long enough or even stick, you deal 0% of your current damage potential to them, condition or otherwise.
And when they last 40% longer than normal, the opposite happens…..the enemy can’t maneuver effectively and ends up eating far more damage than they normally would have.
Or when you run out of endurance early and can’t dodge reapplication/burst.
Basically any test or calculation that isn’t actual combat (which I have already performed and observed first hand nearly two thousand hours even as a mediocre and intermittent player) isn’t going to tell you kitten so it’s just pointless pontificating and kittening to even ask for it. You’ll note I did not commit the error of demanding mathematical proof of the opposite stance that the conditions foods don’t dramatically affect small scale combat…..gee it might because I already know that on paper math alone isn’t going to show enough data?
The closest you could get to accurately simulating in a controlled environment what the 40% global condition foods do to small group combat is is the sPvP cage matches, but food isn’t allowed in those. And if it was, Anet would likely have already nuked the the global condition duration foods from orbit with the nerf cannon.
Because then they’d have statistics that were filtering out large scale combat.
Blech. Not only do we not need a return to the trinity, we should be adjusting the AI back to the old GW1 default where most mobs would ruthlessly feast on you if you were low effective HP and in close range.
It trained people for PvP ahead of time that way, by making the mobs tend to target the weakest link. (outside of things like “55” builds, which worked against dumb players too)
Do you guys need a data log to see that the sky is freaking blue as well?
I’m not going to the effort of testing something already confirmed by repeated experiences on both ends of the equations.
You want it and think it is the only thing of value in this discussion? Go get it your kitten selves.
Plus, no amount of logs will accurately model what happens in actual combat because they have no easily interpretable way of showing how a few extra seconds of the non damaging conditions can drastically skew how much dps they dealt and took due to positioning and other moving variables. Part of that is the nature of the combat system and the fact that the combat log itself is criminally vague.
So even if I could be bothered to parse a log of numbers; they are not going to even reflect the overall picture.
Literally the only way to see how the duration foods affect small scale combat is to pony up and use them and observe what happens. Assuming you have two competent parties engaging in good faith. (Both playing to win outside of food selection.)
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Nah the reason to nerf them is because the global duration foods offer a disproportionate benefit when compared to trait lines and other foods, regardless of the game mode they affect.
If they only mess up an unimportant section of the game then it won’t be terrible to have them adjusted to sane values.
Now global cleanse spam is another issue entirely.
Prove it. Do a break down of how much more condition damage is done for condi skills across a few professions and figure up what percent that increases the skulls damage. Then do the same thing with other offensive foods and skills that relate to them.
For example, someone recently did this with every engineer skill. The end result was that condition DPS over 60s increased 9.7%. The DPS of direct damage over 60s increased 10.1%. The gear was dire to soldier comparison.
I never checked the numbers on this case myself, because I feel the food is finw. Based on my experience. But since your making claims, what did your test show? Mind sharing your testing process, while your at it? Thank you.
I never bothered checking the numbers because play experience has already shown me that if I run +40% duration food on a condi build versus some poor schlub who is not using -40% food or Melandru runes they have no chance of cleansing enough of my conditions before I melt them unless they get immediate assistance from an ally.
And the other way around when I have ran condition builds or condition reliant power builds in small scale fights, if I do not run that food, I am kittening in the wind the moment I come up against a player stacking lemongrass and Melandru.
And when neither of us is using those foods the fight is often much more ambiguous in outcome. As it should be.
So no. You are not entitled to any sort of log or testing from me by your own logic, because in my experience using all sides of them the 40% foods are not fine. They offer a self evidently disproportionate bonus for a consumable. What logic makes it even remotely balanced for one particular set of food to offer a similar level of bonus to a freaking trait line?
And quite frankly I am not going to go to the effort because I can tell you already don’t want to be convinced, or you’d satisfy your curiosity for the numbers yourself.
Now here is where you might make some side point about large scale blah blah blah etc: I already run with a warrior guard train using trooper runes and shout spam and water fields so I don’t care there because any adjustment to the duration food is going to be irrelevant anyways at that scale of spam cleansing.
This duration foods are literally one of the only areas in the entire game where conditions could stand to be reigned in. The base conditions aren’t even that bad, it’s just a particular set of duration boosters/reducers that are on NOS compared to everything else of their type.
(edited by Overkillengine.6084)
Necros gain a lot of survivability from remaining on the offensive and attacking, that’s a fact.
They can’t do that while bouncing.
That is also a fact that overrides your fact.
There are more than a few builds out there on other classes that can chain CC a Necro while also dealing more than enough damage by themselves to guarantee the Necro dies with no realistic hope of c-c-c-c-combo breaking out of it and living once it is successfully initiated. Because those classes also get stability and/or superior avoidance to ensure they are immune to what few reactive tools a Necro gets. Your only hope at that point is that they screw up the chain or a team mate rescues you.
Nah the reason to nerf them is because the global duration foods offer a disproportionate benefit when compared to trait lines and other foods, regardless of the game mode they affect.
If they only mess up an unimportant section of the game then it won’t be terrible to have them adjusted to sane values.
Now global cleanse spam is another issue entirely.
Honestly the duration foods are probably the source of a large number of complaints about conditions in WvW. If you aren’t running the -40% food versus a +40% food user you exponentially increase the chances of getting clubbed like a baby seal.
And the other way around is not fun either since none of the things you are reliant on to fight work, even as say, a power necro.
Binary cold war balance like this is not fun or healthy.
There needs to be a major balance pass on all foods to ensure that they have a consistent level of usefulness and do not happen to occupy such a large portion of a build’s effectiveness like the current condition duration foods do.
I’ve had some success running a budget version of a Might/Vuln stacking Necro in all sPvP/PvE/WvW using Hoelbrack Runes and Knights/Cav gear (Knights in sPvP).
Staff and Axe/Warhorn.
With the right traits, sigils, and skills you can self stack up to 25 might fairly easily and the -20% condition duration is nice while you are in DS since you have no clears while in it. Has some trouble with CC heavy enemies like decap engineers and hammer warriors, but that’s pretty much a thing for most necro builds.
And it’s a heck of a lot cheaper to put together than most builds since you can buy most the gear with badges and karma.
During DS your utilities are technically unequipped (like a transform, just thankfully minions don’t die).
Shhhhh….they might decide to fix that feature.
Yeah. Let’s nerf condition damage so we can make way for more build diversity. We won’t see condition damage anymore, but those power builds will finally get a chance to shine for a change.
If all you do is small scale roaming in WvW (literally the only place in the game where conditions are viable) why not build specifically with conditions in mind? Ignore toughness and stack vitality, actually invest in -condition duration food, and take as many condition cleanses as possible.
I play a thief in small scale wvw, most would agree they have some of the worst ways to deal with condition removal, but conditions hardly give me much trouble. I play both a condition and direct damage build.
Once you realize that conditions are not spammed anymore than direct damage is and that there are big cooldowns to look for and dodge, things become a lot easier. Don’t panic the second you see a bit of bleeding on you. Understand that you can’t remove or avoid all conditions, just as you can’t avoid all direct damage.
In WvW you can stack -60% condition duration easily. That is ~60% less damage taken throughout a fight against a condition build. An 8 second bleed becomes 3.2 seconds, but because bleed ticks only happen at every next second, it becomes only 3 seconds of effective bleeding. Coupled with smart use of condition clears, dodging important cooldowns, and actually using a bit of vitality, I can’t imagine you’d have much trouble anymore.
While you are right about being able to negate a lot of condition damage, your conditional opponent will almost always be tougher and have more health than you do.
Look at the gear stat arrays.
Outside of Rampagers (which is hybrid), condi builds aren’t really afforded much choice in that regard. That is not the fault of conditions, but rather gear itemization.
Edit: Which brings up another point that most don’t run full Rampagers unless they have some sort of on demand defensive mechanic like stealth and the right traits to support it….since that array is not all directly multiplicative a la Berzerkers, the tradeoff is too bad for many to stomach.
(edited by Overkillengine.6084)