Guild Wars 2

FrouFrou.4958:

I believe the whole point of having the waypoint that far away is to break down the zerg.

Well, it doesn’t work :P
I guess people are pretty dedicated to the zerg.

Talyn Sneider.1825:

That could work too, seems to me a nice idea. So at grand master of arcana I suggest a much needed trait.

Arcane Armor:

10% of your power becomes vitality.

The percentage could be adjusted…what do you think?

No, no no no no.
Do not try to exchange active defenses that promote skilled use and interesting play for dull, weak passive bonuses that completely negate skilled play.
This is a horrific idea. Elementalist is not a class that revolves around passive defense.
Not to mention that I wouldn’t take this as an adept trait, let alone a grandmaster.
It would literally ALWAYS be a better option to put 10 in water and take any random trait.

juno.1840:

I think you’d be better off taking the most desirable Arcana Traits and busting them up into the other trait lines.

For example, instead of Elemental Attunement, give the boon to the associated 5pt Adept Minor on each trait line (i.e. 5pts into Fire gives you might when activing Fire attunement).

Another example, instead of Evasive Arcana, give the dodge effect to the associated 15pt Master Minor on each trait line (i.e. 15pts into Water gives you Cleaning Wave on dodge when in Water attunement).

Granted you want something special for Grand Master traits in Arcana. Right now, much of Arcana is still “must have” for most Elementalists.

I like evasive arcana where it is, thank you.

Talyn Sneider.1825:

[Change]
Water XI:
“Create a weak attunement-based spell at the end of your dodge. Fire: Flame Burst. Water: Cleansing Wave. Air: Blinding Flash. Earth: Churning Earth.”

Makes a let’s say 60% version of the actual dodge spells.

Arcane Power XI:
“Remove a condition when granting regeneration to yourself or an ally.
Conditions removed: 1
Increase Water XI spell effect by 40%”

[Pros:]
Will allow players to have some of the utility of evasive arcana even when not fully traited in arcan power.
Will allow more builds.

[Cons:]
Balancing of 60%/40% is not tested…should be subject to gradual tuning.

…But why would you put it in Water, the other heavily depended upon tree?
Also, having a trait literally be a weaker version of the same trait in the same class is probably not a good idea.

Talyn Sneider.1825:

To Mbelch:

That seems a very nice idea, perhaps even compatible with this…longer concentration more damage and lower port distance perhaps?

Actually, that could work if it scaled to the point that at max strength you can’t port. Would definitely be an interesting change.

I don’t like it. Seems somewhat overpowered.

Katran.9186:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Though I will point out something, which is that you just described using it in every single way it doesn’t work. It’s situational, but it is a fairly common situation that it is useful in and it can very easily win battles for you, though it does require a little bit more thought than running in guns blazing.

Shooting aoe from elevation\Shooting stun from the corner won’t work in pvp. Hotjoins – yeah, glass staff, conjured bow, axe, whatever work fine. You just pour aoe at mid point.

Really, debating about ele having any serious viability in any form in PvP is kind of silly. You pretty much have to massively outplay everyone else, and when you’re doing that already frost bow does make it easier to get kills and stay alive, especially in teamfights where you can completely destroy all enemy rezzing capability.

Suggestion:
Instead of directly buffing flamewall or making it another version of unsteady ground, why not make it rip boons? That would add to versatility and improve the skill, while also giving eles something they normally don’t have. It would also make people really, really not want to walk through it.

Carighan.6758:

Form.8741:

I don’t get how Mesmer is an underpowered class, unless they nerfed phants by about 80% in the last 4 months…it’s an extremely GOOD 1v1 class.

As you said, 1v1. Hence, underpowered.

More mispowered, to coin a term. It’s extremely powerful in one area. It just so happens that it’s the wrong area for PvP.

Katran.9186:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Am I the only one who likes them as they are now, with the exception of Axe and Shield which frankly need some serious buffs?
I use them as utilities, not as extra weapons. Taking Frost Bow, I essentially get 2 utility-slot worthy skills on a 60 second cooldown (about half that if I plan it right) in the five-second unbreakable stun that chills and the huge damage AoE. Having an extra second of calling it out is worth it to me.
This being said, I really would appreciate more conjure-related traits (reduced cooldown, increased stat boost, boon on summoning etc.) because we only have one and it would be sort of fun to experiment with conjure-centered builds.

Do you play tpvp? Conjuries are not viable now. Blind kid can evade frostbow stun, for god’s sake. While you casting weapon, then casting stun, you’ll die ten times. Overpowered aoe is easy to evade too. The only role that conjury ele can play now is the role that zerk warrior played before. “Hurr durr, while they’re fighting I’ll rush in and do massive damage, then die. If I go 1×1 I’ll die. If they spot me earlier than I cast my stun – I’ll die. Hurr, gameplay, viable, flexible.”

I don’t pretend to play top-level PvP, though I am very aware of what is and isn’t viable there. I main glass staff, because I don’t particularly care about what is and isn’t viable, only what I find fun, which is also why I run a conjure.
Though I will point out something, which is that you just described using it in every single way it doesn’t work. It’s situational, but it is a fairly common situation that it is useful in and it can very easily win battles for you, though it does require a little bit more thought than running in guns blazing.

Chaos.3579:

How is ele UP again? They strike me as a class with great survivability and good damage through normal and condition means regardless of build variation for d/d.
They strike me as one of the most solid class’s in the game right now not looking at the lack of build diversity(needs more weapons).

1) Make an ele.
2) Go into sPvP, grab one of the more polished builds, play several matches (with different groups, playing with the same people shows nothing).
3) Then, you may go on here and say that they have great survivability and are not underpowered.
4) Alternately, get one to level 80 and try to WvW outside of a zerg, but that takes a lot longer.

30/x/x/x/30 Berserker staff ele with brilliance, wave, shield, and one utility of choice along with any elite (nado storm is fun but I recommend trying other stuff too).
High skill requirements, rewarding, and lets you do some really neat stuff, but is not really viable, mostly because of thieves (any, and I mean any, melee thief will destroy you, though you have moderately good surivivability against one trying to use ranged attacks).
Conditions can be an issue, but not as much as you would think despite the obvious deficiency in removal. Any situation where you would die to conditions, you would die to direct damage too.
You pretty much can’t say it’s overpowered ever, but it’s awesome.

DuranArgith.1354:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

DuranArgith.1354:

Sin Stonestrike.9326:

DuranArgith.1354:

Sin Stonestrike.9326:

Hooma, Harper, DuranArgith…. thank you for putting out some very clear and constructive thoughts on the defense tree (helps little ole’ me who doesn’t have a warrior and can’t grasp the concept as fast).

So…… has anyone suggested that Cleansing Ire be switched with Spiked Armor to become a grandmaster major trait? Wouldn’t this solve the supposed problem of an easy 20 into the trait tree and make the warrior actually build for 30 before chosing either the condition cleanse OR the low hp EP proc (kinda like ranger’s WS line)?

Please don’t shred my idea …. I just can’t judge very well what this would do for the profession so could you more experienced warriors tell me?

Well, a warrior in my opinion needs 35 trait points that are an absolute must.
15 in fast hands and 20 for cleansing ire.

Your idea would mean that warriors would be starving for trait points if they needed 45 points out of 70 in order to even be viable.

Sounds kinda boring and build restricting to “require” 35 trait points already. My suggestion might mean even more of a restriction OR more build diversity and I think that other professions already have the issue of “requiring” to go 30 into at least one trait tree.

Anyways, what do you suggest as an alternative?

I cant really suggest any alternative. Most condition battling traits for classes are on the master level. Cleansing Ire being a master level is consistent.

I’ll have my cleansing wave remove three conditions and reduce attunement recharges by one second then, if you please, (does 3 conditions every ten seconds with a boost to my profession mechanic included in my defense traitline sound familiar?).
If Cleansing Ire is comparable to master-level major traits of other classes, then you would presumably be okay with receiving the equivalent of one of these skills in its place:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Inscriptions
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave_ (mentally replace this with a weapon swap, on 10-13 second cooldown)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleaning_Formula_409 (mentally replace this with shouts or banners or something)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inscribed_Removal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Absolute_Resolution (mentally replace this with something that has a 60-second cooldown)

I assume you aren’t, because every single one of these (and these are the master major cleansing traits for other classes) is quite obviously weaker. I would go so far as to say that most grandmaster cleansing traits are weaker.
This isn’t to say that Cleansing Ire is in the wrong place, just to show how far and above it is beyond equivalent cleansing traits, and thus to show how wrong it is to say that cleansing ire is consistent with other master-level traits.

You haven’t read the conversation about cleansing ire at all, have you….
Also, youre comparing elementalist, a class that noone can deny that needs buffs to other classes.

Sorry about missing that whole conversation there, I got to this page and started reading it when the quoted post was the last one. I was doing other stuff while writing up my post, so it took me a while to actually post the thing and I missed ~40 minutes of posting.

DuranArgith.1354:

Sin Stonestrike.9326:

DuranArgith.1354:

Sin Stonestrike.9326:

Hooma, Harper, DuranArgith…. thank you for putting out some very clear and constructive thoughts on the defense tree (helps little ole’ me who doesn’t have a warrior and can’t grasp the concept as fast).

So…… has anyone suggested that Cleansing Ire be switched with Spiked Armor to become a grandmaster major trait? Wouldn’t this solve the supposed problem of an easy 20 into the trait tree and make the warrior actually build for 30 before chosing either the condition cleanse OR the low hp EP proc (kinda like ranger’s WS line)?

Please don’t shred my idea …. I just can’t judge very well what this would do for the profession so could you more experienced warriors tell me?

Well, a warrior in my opinion needs 35 trait points that are an absolute must.
15 in fast hands and 20 for cleansing ire.

Your idea would mean that warriors would be starving for trait points if they needed 45 points out of 70 in order to even be viable.

Sounds kinda boring and build restricting to “require” 35 trait points already. My suggestion might mean even more of a restriction OR more build diversity and I think that other professions already have the issue of “requiring” to go 30 into at least one trait tree.

Anyways, what do you suggest as an alternative?

I cant really suggest any alternative. Most condition battling traits for classes are on the master level. Cleansing Ire being a master level is consistent.

I’ll have my cleansing wave remove three conditions and reduce attunement recharges by one second then, if you please, (does 3 conditions every ten seconds with a boost to my profession mechanic included in my defense traitline sound familiar?).
If Cleansing Ire is comparable to master-level major traits of other classes, then you would presumably be okay with receiving the equivalent of one of these skills in its place:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Inscriptions
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave_ (mentally replace this with a weapon swap, on 10-13 second cooldown)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleaning_Formula_409 (mentally replace this with shouts or banners or something)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inscribed_Removal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Absolute_Resolution (mentally replace this with something that has a 60-second cooldown)

I assume you aren’t, because every single one of these (and these are the master major cleansing traits for other classes) is quite obviously weaker. I would go so far as to say that most grandmaster cleansing traits are weaker.
This isn’t to say that Cleansing Ire is in the wrong place, just to show how far and above it is beyond equivalent cleansing traits, and thus to show how wrong it is to say that cleansing ire is consistent with other master-level traits.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Meteor Storm is an awesome skill with awesome design, and I will defend its current state until the end, because its about as balanced as it gets.
Also, the dude just got confused and thought you were talking about lightning strike (the scepter skill/air 15 trait).

I disagree, he specifically states about the use of Tornado to do such damage. That alone means nothing for the class having to use a 180second Elite cool down for ONE skill, It says a lot.

While it might do 6-10k crit hits when using Tornado – Remove Tornado and what is the damage that is that counts because we all know it will get fixed at some point because it nothing more than using glitch sort of away to make the skill do such damage.

It’s not so much that you have to use tornado to make Meteor Storm do lots of damage, it’s more that our elites are so bad that often using tornado storm is your best use of the elite slot. I very often run staff without tornado, and am fine with that damage. The reason I personally run tornado with staff is because it is really effective at preventing rezzes on the people who were stupid enough to stand in the giant balls of fire, and thus accelerating natural selection.
If we had better elites that were worth using in their own right, I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t see all the ’nado storms that we do now.
This is off topic though.

KrazyFlyinChicken.5936:

I have been playing S/F in sPvP lately, and DT is already a really strong skill.

If your opponent doesn’t dodge it, they’re dead. Making it hit any harder would only add insult to injury. And there are lots of ways to make sure it gets hit. Elemental Surge (immobilizes), signet of earth (immobilizes), chills and any stun, really (earthquake, updraft, gust?)

Now if you want to talk the Shatterstone (Water 2 scepter ability)………. I mean, does anyone actually bother using this?

I levelled mostly using scepter, and stopped using shatterstone after about level 10 when I realized that I would actually improve my DPS by just ignoring its existence. Considering that the skill has no other effect than vulnerability and a small amount of damage, this is pretty sad.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Xillllix.3485:

What do you mean every 40 seconds? It’s more like every 4-5 seconds with Fresh Air.

The ele isn’t in such a bad state seriously. Mine is running around with 20k hp (21500+ with guard defense stacks ) and meteors crit between 6-10k with tornado, and I have about 1700 toughness. A single well placed meteor shower will globally do over 50k dmg agains’t people who fail to dodge, I made the sum out of my combat log yesterday.

We just needs a few buffs to the useless traits.

You are confused Fresh Air has NO affect on it what so ever, it is a 40second cool down no matter if you use Fresh Air or not seeing as Fresh Air only gets you back into Air attunement and Lightening Flash is a utility and not a weapon skill.

Right and without having to blow a 180second cool down Elite skill which will soon enough get fixed, what does Meteor Storm do?

Meteor Storm is an awesome skill with awesome design, and I will defend its current state until the end, because its about as balanced as it gets.
Also, the dude just got confused and thought you were talking about lightning strike (the scepter skill/air 15 trait).

Am I the only one who likes them as they are now, with the exception of Axe and Shield which frankly need some serious buffs?
I use them as utilities, not as extra weapons. Taking Frost Bow, I essentially get 2 utility-slot worthy skills on a 60 second cooldown (about half that if I plan it right) in the five-second unbreakable stun that chills and the huge damage AoE. Having an extra second of calling it out is worth it to me.
This being said, I really would appreciate more conjure-related traits (reduced cooldown, increased stat boost, boon on summoning etc.) because we only have one and it would be sort of fun to experiment with conjure-centered builds.

haviz.1340:

style.6173:

The problem with this whole change is that ANET is trying to solve for the wrong problem. The issue is with zerker gear and warriors in PvE. No one ever asks for 5 GC mesmers to run a dungeon. The problem is the damage/defense ratio of the warrior. They can go all zerker and still be fine defensively.

Fix the warrior. Don’t mess around with crit damage. At the end of this change, you’ll still have zerker warriors be the king of PvE. Know what that means? This whole ferocity change is a fail.

You should replace the word warrior with a guardian. Warrior is easy to play as a glass cannon but in the harder content (high scales fractals) guardian is infinitely better to have.

Well yes, but that goes along with the skillcap balance. By the time you are running the hardest dungeons, you generally have gained enough knowledge and experience to lose the high passive defensive abilities that warriors innately have in favor of active defenses and team strategies that other classes have.
It works like this: if you throw a top-end PvE class/build at a group of new players, or even moderately seasoned ones, they will most likely wipe, because they won’t be able to handle the timing of group buffs and won’t have enough knowledge of the encounters. However, throw them a few warriors and a guardian (the more tanky kind) or two and it will become vastly easier for them, because they will be able to optimize the limited strategies available to them pretty easily.
At a certain point, though, players get used to the content enough that they can run more powerful, albeit harder to play, teams and classes. The reward for this is that you gain faster runs with greater power, but it comes with a high expectation for player experience.
Again, this is PvE, things are vastly different in sPvP.

There is that thing where most other classes have a stronger self-save after a brief delay, which eles pretty much completely lack. Warrior has the temporary revive, mesmer has the hard-hitting phantasm, and rangers get their pet to revive them, while elementalists get a brief bleed, a small amount of damage, and 3(?) seconds of immobilize. If you were to alter the elementalist #2 downed in favor of balance, you would have to take a serious look at other classes’ #3 skills in relation to those of eles.

tom.7468:

guanlongwucaii.3162:

style.6173:

The problem with this whole change is that ANET is trying to solve for the wrong problem. The issue is with zerker gear and warriors in PvE. No one ever asks for 5 GC mesmers to run a dungeon. The problem is the damage/defense ratio of the warrior. They can go all zerker and still be fine defensively.

Fix the warrior. Don’t mess around with crit damage. At the end of this change, you’ll still have zerker warriors be the king of PvE. Know what that means? This whole ferocity change is a fail.

stacking warriors isn’t the best tactic for pve, not by a long shot

Absolutely warrior is best in nothing well except mobility. The only difference is they are not terrible in anything they could use some buffs to be on par with the other professions.

…What?
I assume you have yet to run, well, any dungeons at all, let alone high-level ones, or even used the LFG tool, or you would have had to notice all of the groups demanding berserker warriors.
It’s not really about how much DPS they do, though they are only fourth in that regard (behind Elementalists, Mesmers, and then just barely behind Guardians), it’s about how little they have to sacrifice comparatively to reach close to optimal DPS.

This is pretty much exactly how Warriors seem to be intended to play. They aren’t the best if you are completely used to the content and have a perfect group, but for many players they will perform vastly better due to their ease of use. This is the definition of low-skillcap, in that easy-to-use builds should be less powerful than more punishing ones. So no, warriors do not need a buff.
It is a somewhat different story in sPvP, where very often the best builds are not the highest skillcap ones, but that is a different topic.

corin.1298:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

corin.1298:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

And?
Pretty much every class has the ability to hit really high numbers if they spec for it. Warriors shouldn’t be an exception.

Examples or it didnt happen.

You can get some really absurd ‘nado shower crits if you go all out for it, there’s videos of that in the ele subforum. Thieves can spec for all-out backstab damage and hit some really high numbers, and mesmers can get some crazy shatters off. Necros can do pretty well for themselves in Lich Form, though power necros are an endangered species. I don’t think engies or rangers can hit the same raw numbers, but engies make up for it in other ways, and rangers have that whole pet thing sapping their damage.

The ele thing doesn’t really work in spvp. The thief, I’ve never been hit for more than 5k at a time; but yes it can be spammable, but its much more gimmicky than 1 ability, hitting for more than your health pool.

I dunno, I’ve squashed quite a few people using meteor shower in PvP.

corin.1298:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

And?
Pretty much every class has the ability to hit really high numbers if they spec for it. Warriors shouldn’t be an exception.

Examples or it didnt happen.

You can get some really absurd ‘nado shower crits if you go all out for it, there’s videos of that in the ele subforum. Thieves can spec for all-out backstab damage and hit some really high numbers, and mesmers can get some crazy shatters off. Necros can do pretty well for themselves in Lich Form, though power necros are an endangered species. I don’t think engies or rangers can hit the same raw numbers, but engies make up for it in other ways, and rangers have that whole pet thing sapping their damage.

Atherakhia.4086:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Atherakhia.4086:

Conditions.

Remove berserker stance. Make it do 25% more damage and reduce armor by 25%.
Attach condi immunity to healing signet. Slowly drains available adrenaline until out of adrenaline. Immune to condis while it’s up. 3 adrenaline a second drained.

I’ve solved the Warrior class.

0.o
Have you seen how much adrenaline generation warriors have? With this they would quite literally be permanently immune to conditions as long as they are either hitting or being hit if they took cleansing ire and signet of rage, and possibly one other generation trait. I don’t think this would really make them weak to conditions…

You’ve never actually played a Warrior I take it?

1 to 3 conditions removed every 8 seconds somehow makes Warriors immune :/

I was talking about: “Attach condi immunity to healing signet. Slowly drains available adrenaline until out of adrenaline. Immune to condis while it’s up. 3 adrenaline a second drained.” With almost any investment in adrenaline generation this would make warriors permanently immune to conditions.

And?
Pretty much every class has the ability to hit really high numbers if they spec for it. Warriors shouldn’t be an exception.

SimmonsTheSpawn.4716:

I personally think that having the ability to change the weapon out of combat is a good idea !
It’s not so confortable to have inventory/hero panel opened to change a weapon.
Often if you switch from one set focus to one scepter dagger dagger and you lose time having to right click on the second dagger to put it in off hand and in excited fighting stages you are likely to end up in aggro and staying with the wrong set, or even worse (as often happens if you do not hold the panel hero) with only a dagger and nothing in the other hand

As you can change your skill off combat i think that for ele could be a good idea being able to change weapon too

It also saves me some of my precious inventory.

DiogoSilva.7089:

sorrychief.2563:

What changed about arcane wave? Wasn’t it buffed?

In the elementalist’s forum, if a skill is buffed for almost every single scenario, at the tiny cost of making it slightly less effective in some exceptional or niche situations, the community cries.

Yeah, I will never understand why people think that was a nerf. It makes the skill infinitely more versatile.

Atherakhia.4086:

Conditions.

Remove berserker stance. Make it do 25% more damage and reduce armor by 25%.
Attach condi immunity to healing signet. Slowly drains available adrenaline until out of adrenaline. Immune to condis while it’s up. 3 adrenaline a second drained.

I’ve solved the Warrior class.

0.o
Have you seen how much adrenaline generation warriors have? With this they would quite literally be permanently immune to conditions as long as they are either hitting or being hit if they took cleansing ire and signet of rage, and possibly one other generation trait. I don’t think this would really make them weak to conditions…

Neftex.7594:

Ok, rerolling my kittening mesmer, I want this kitten too. Take 3 dps and 2 support eles, wrap them with melee train to get enemys attention and shower them, gg.

Now seriously, do you think it’s ok to have one class to be that versatile in builds and so powerfull in all of them? Good 1v1, good 1vX, great group support, great DPS. I don’t think eles should be that good.

…What?

Grevender.9235:

well tastes are tastes but for my fast paced combat style there couldn’t be any better change than the actual Arcane Wave, for example I can teleport out of the field just landed WHILE healing myself AND nuking said field from afar…. then RTL back and continue the slaughter: how epic can this be? it would not have been possible with the old version, which only encouraged a fixed pattern which soon become very easy to foresee for skilled and aware enemies.

Arcane Brilliance: meh, it saddens me to recognize it as a fail. While it’s true that using it you can charge the enemy group and deal damage while also healing yourself, seems like they didn’t notice we completely lack the mobility to get out of troubles immediately after doing so therefore being obliterated the very second later.

From whatever point we look at this class, and it’s cool that at least on this point everyone agree, we are in critical need of practical and effective solutions for our outrageous lack of sustain.

Hey, don’t hate on Brilliance! It’s my favorite heal by far (I’m not saying its viable, conditions are still a thing after all) and is certainly the most versatile.

I have to say that this is not where I want elementalist buffs to be. I won’t deny that I thin the class needs some love, but passive defense is not something that really goes with the high skillcap theme of the class.

havoc.6814:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Super OP? No. Better at dealing with conditions than most other classes? Yes.

Talk about misquoting.

I’ll just refer you to the following link since you seem to have no idea what the various professions have for condition removal. You will note that the warrior actually has fewer skills and traits for dealing with conditions than other professions. You can count, can’t you? Go count them then….

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition_removal#Skills_that_remove_conditions

Talk about misquoting? I have misquoted no one. That is your little trick.

I would like to know where I said that warrior condition cleansing was “Super OP”, or even overpowered. It is certainly more than several other professions with the same investment, and that seems to go against the design philosophy.
Certainly Dogged March is by far the best trait of its type, and for half as much investment as any other class. Cleansing Ire is undeniably the single best condition removal from traits except for possibly Shadow’s Embrace (Even that is arguable, because it only works in stealth and cannot be controlled), has a secondary effect that boosts its main effect, and only costs twenty points, compared to inferior cleanses from grandmaster traits in pretty much every other class, and Quick Breathing isn’t too shabby either for a master trait that also reduces cooldowns. Berserker Stance and Signet of Stamina are both either equal to or better than all but Elixir C, Plague Signet and Contemplation of Purity (and in the case of Berserker Stance that is debatable).

The only areas where Warrior does not have access to some of the absolute best cleansing is weapon skills and healing skills (not to say that healing signet is bad at dealing with conditions, just that it doesn’t do it directly, and mending still exists). Only four professions have cleansing weapon skills, and all in extremely limited quantities. Necro, as the master of conditions, has two 3-condition transfers (offhand dagger and staff), Elementalist has four total over all weapon sets, Thief has one, and Guardian has two (one of which doesn’t work on himself).

In conclusion, Warriors are by no means weaker to conditions than other classes, even disregarding base health and passive healing. They have the strongest counters to conditions in both traits and utilities, and don’t have low health to make them innately more weak.

The actual number of skills and traits that remove conditions is, for the most part, irrelevant, because the vast majority of them are weak and not ever really considered for their cleansing.

style.6173:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

style.6173:

Insanity.5174:

Elementalist.
Again the proof that you don’t want to hear a kitten about this class.

Thousands of topics about :
Revert the Ride The Lightning nerf.
Revert Cleansing water trait nerf.
Revert Cleansing wave trait nerf.
Revert Elemental Attunement trait nerf.
Buff Focus skills.
Buff Arcane shield,3 blocks every 75 seconds,wow.
Buff Glyphs.
Buff Signets.
Changing lingering elements trait because is useless.
Conjurer weapons like engi’s kits.
Buff Arcane Precision.grandmaster trait,wow.

You have NEVER talked about buffing any of this things,ty,really.

8% healing signet nerf,seriously?
how is possibile playing against a warrior that heals 1k every second.
how is possibile playing against a thief s/d that makes to you 3k-4k of autoattack,perma evades.
After 1 year of this stupid meta and after this “balance” notes i understand that there are no hopes for this game about pvp,do what you want with your broken game,i’m out like others already did it.

Don’t forget about the other side of ele changes that are needed as well. There needs to be an AOE circle for meteor shower and it needs to do less damage.

I agree eles need buffs, but they also need the two changes above as well.

They are removing tornado+meteor shower, you can stop complaining about it now.

You see that where?

and that still doesn’t resolve the no circle issue. Anyway, this skill is fine in WvW and PvE, but needs a nerf in conquest. It takes zero still to sit far away and launch meteor shower against someone who is defending a point.

I agree that it needs a circle, but the only use the skill has in sPVP is to force people off a point for seven seconds. It’s hardly overpowered.

havoc.6814:

I am implying that the devs wanted warriors to have that choice, and again, the dev’s never, ever stated that warriors “should” always be weaker agaist conditions than other professions. Please stop putting words into their mouths. What they stated is clear and perfectly understandable. You do not need to rephrase it to understand it. Any time you start changing the actual words (from “may” to “should” for example), you are attempting to alter what they said to make it meet your personal desires. This is simply rediculous.

Warriors are weaker (against conditions) than other classes with the same investment in countering conditions. Keep in mind that many professions get automatic condition removal (when traited). The warrior does not. He has to trait for it, then also successfully use other skills for the condi removal.

• Dogged March only reduces the duration on cripple, chill, and immob. It does not remove them; it does not affect other conditions.
• Cleansing Ire allows a warrior to remove conditions only if his burst skill hits. This means that a well-timed dodge or blind will cause the warrior to fail to remove those conditions.
• The high health of the warrior has been in the game since the beginning thereof and has no place in your argument.
• Healing Signet cures no conditions and while it grants the warrior a little better sustain, it can be very quickly overpowered by conditions ( I can overpower it with just 4 bleed stacks on my warrior, and I can stack dozens of bleeds really quickly)

This is the reason why so many warriors also run additional condition cleansing on utility skills, Melandru’s or Lyssa’s runes, and condi-reduction food. If warriors were really so super OP against conditions as you seem to claim, then why would they bother with the overkill? They wouldn’t. They would run with some offensive runes and food instead.

On the side note, I don’t give a kitten whether I look good or not. I also find it hard not to be condescending to those who simply refuse to understand the simplest of sentences, and insist on misquoting others to back up their claims.

Super OP? No. Better at dealing with conditions than most other classes? Yes.

Talk about misquoting.

havoc.6814:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

You would think that it is fairly obvious that the use of “may” in this context implies possibility and not permission, but apparently I need to spell it out for you.

I have never claimed that the word "may was being used to mean permission. I claimed that it was being used to denote a possibility. Do you have any capacity for deductive reasoning at all? You wrote all that tripe based on an apparent inability to deduce what I was writing? Do I have to use smaller words for you?

On topic: Warriors are fairly well balanced right now. The constant cries for nerfs by those who are unable to recognize this simple fact are just cries for help because those people can’t be bothered to learn to play properly. Anet has largely ignored, and will continue to ignore, the mass negativity that these people bring because, like the OP of this topic, the make such ridiculous suggestions and fabulous claims that the devs quite simply can’t take them seriously.

Sorry, I misunderstood your first post on the subject. You seemed to be implying that the developers wanted warriors to have the choice to be weak against conditions, exactly like other classes.

What the developers seem to be implying, or rather directly stating, is that a warrior should always be weaker against conditions than other classes with the same investment in countering conditions, which is not currently the case as a result of healing signet, high health, cleansing ire, and dogged march, each of which make warrior comparatively strong with relatively little investment.

On a side note, please stop with the condescension and stream of insults. It only weakens your argument, and certainly does not make you look good.

style.6173:

Insanity.5174:

Elementalist.
Again the proof that you don’t want to hear a kitten about this class.

Thousands of topics about :
Revert the Ride The Lightning nerf.
Revert Cleansing water trait nerf.
Revert Cleansing wave trait nerf.
Revert Elemental Attunement trait nerf.
Buff Focus skills.
Buff Arcane shield,3 blocks every 75 seconds,wow.
Buff Glyphs.
Buff Signets.
Changing lingering elements trait because is useless.
Conjurer weapons like engi’s kits.
Buff Arcane Precision.grandmaster trait,wow.

You have NEVER talked about buffing any of this things,ty,really.

8% healing signet nerf,seriously?
how is possibile playing against a warrior that heals 1k every second.
how is possibile playing against a thief s/d that makes to you 3k-4k of autoattack,perma evades.
After 1 year of this stupid meta and after this “balance” notes i understand that there are no hopes for this game about pvp,do what you want with your broken game,i’m out like others already did it.

Don’t forget about the other side of ele changes that are needed as well. There needs to be an AOE circle for meteor shower and it needs to do less damage.

I agree eles need buffs, but they also need the two changes above as well.

They are removing tornado+meteor shower, you can stop complaining about it now.

lorndarken.3702:

which class is like an animal ?

warrior = bull , it charges at you and gores you and stomps on you

guardian = elephant , it can also charge at you and gore but it prefers to stay in the herd.

thief = monkey , if can come out of no where and molly wop you and go and hide not to be seen .

mesmer = ground hog , it comes out when ever it feels like it but if it sees it’s shadow , its going to storm on you like a hurricane .

engineer = koala , they look real cute and cuddly but they will bite hard if you miss handle them .

ranger = eagle , they fly so high and swoop down looking proud but if they cant get back in the air they are turkeys

necromancer = tazmanian devil , they make a lot of noise can be very vicious but are still cute and going extinct .

thats how i see each class in terms of pvp /wvw

How could you forget elementalists? They are obviously platypuses.

havoc.6814:

P Fun Daddy.1208:

You seem to not comprehend that having one class be specifically mentioned as possibly having trouble with conditions and having no other classes mentioned as potentially having that same weakness sort of implies that warrior should have a harder time dealing with conditions with equal investment into that capacity, which is not the case currently. Warriors have some of the best condition removal in the game accessible with little (compared to what other classes have to do) investment.

So before you start waxing eloquent about how other people are just stupid for not understanding the word “may”, please give some more serious thought to the logical basis of your argument.
Honestly, they could have been using “may” in the sense that warriors don’t have trouble with conditions when conditions are not being applied to them, which frankly makes a lot more sense than giving warriors permission to have trouble with conditions (which is how you interpret it).

I didn’t interpret anything. The statement made by the dev was very simple, plain English usage. The meaning is very obvious and does not require interpretation. You are the one trying to invent reasons to be able to interpret it to mean something different than what was obviously said. If what you are suggesting were true, then the devs would have said that the warrior “will” have trouble with conditions. People do not generally phrase their statements to be intentionally confusing or to sound like they are saying something else when explaining a concept. Stop trying to imagine that the Dev wanted to say something other than what he said. Stop building straw houses.

Noliver.1475:

Allow me to tell you why may is used…

If they say must, that means every single condition will and must give problems to warriors, even with just 1 stack of bleed. Which is not the case. Warriors can shed of 1 stack of bleed without anything but their hp even at prebuff..

May is used to tell you that when Warriors face enough conditions, it will have a hard time. It is to imply that conditions are Warrior’s weakness.

with your use of may, I can also say warriors are OP because they
may have permanent stealth (when someone drops smoke field with blast finish beside them every 3 seconds)
may have permanent invunerability (picking up a Exlir of Heros every 5 seconds…

Having such sustain, dps, permanent stealth and permanent invunarability is too overpowered.

See the above statement to P Fun Daddy (lol, that must be a 12 yo with a name like that). You to are inventing straw arguments (and are obviously really having to stretch your imagination when you start talking about warriors and stealth). The dev statement is in simple English and easily understood. Try learning the language, it will help your understanding greatly. Stop building straw houses.

As an example, “It may rain today” does not mean I am giving permission to the weather, which is how you are attempting to use the developer statement.
I’m not sure why you’re being so stubborn about admitting that the word “may” has alternate meanings from “has permission to”.
You would think that it is fairly obvious that the use of “may” in this context implies possibility and not permission, but apparently I need to spell it out for you.
I mean really, how stupid would it be if the developers used a fairly large portion of their balancing statement with respect to warriors to state that warriors are allowed to have a hard time with conditions if they choose to?
I have to agree with your response to me, in that it is so incredibly obvious which “may” they are using that you would have to have a weak grasp of the language in order to even attempt to pursue your argument.

If you need sources, the first entry on dictionary.com is as follows:
1. (used to express possibility): It may rain. (funny coincidence here actually, I made my above example before seeing this)
In this example, you can see clearly how the statement that warriors “may” have a hard time with conditions was intended, because any other application of the word makes absolutely no sense in context.

Here is the link if you don’t believe me:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/may

I’m not sure why I wasted this much time arguing with somebody who is so obviously wrong.

P.S. I will admit that my username is somewhat ridiculous, but it is actually somewhat of a play on my last name, though I’m not particularly sure that “havoc” implies any higher level of maturity. Also, this is an example of an “Ad hominem” argument, in that you are attacking irrelevant aspects of my person in order to make my argument seem less credible.

DanSH.6143:

Grevender.9235:

telegraphed nukes

The “Fresh Air” (which is one of the most common ele builds in pvp) build has the least telegraphed – hardest to dodge burst.
All the scepter’s lightning skills are instant and have no travel time, so does the on-swap trait.
these skills are atleast 50% of an ele’s damage in a fight and they’re extremely hard to dodge because you can’t see them coming, there isn’t even a character animation to any of them.
the only telegraphed nuke is “Churning Earth”, even Pheonix is not very telegraphed, especially when used in short-range.

With a fresh air scepter/focus build ele’s have a pretty good damage/survivability ratio and it is one of the best 1v1 builds in-game (though mostly because of its ability to counter some OP builds like condi mesmer and condi warrior)

That and dragon’s tooth.
You still sacrifice pretty much all teamfight ability, because you simply turn every xvx into an (x-1)v(x-1) if you pull off the only combo that reaches numbers unavailable to other classes, which makes it somewhat useless in sPvP. You are out of the fight for a pretty long time after blowing your combo, while the other guy can either die and be back in the fight within 20 seconds, or can just get revived.

The biggest argument against the fresh air burst is that mesmer, thief and, to a certain extent, warrior can do it better. All three of those can fulfill roughly the same function in a team (bursting down squishies and players low on life) on a lower cooldown, with fewer sacrifices to survivability.

havoc.6814:

WhiteRose.6934:

Kanenas.4906:

I found the post I was talking about at the OP, for all those who say I made stories!

Here it is , it was written by J Sharp.

For the old players to remember, and the new ones to learn what was the Anet’s vision for professions about a year ago.

Warrior
We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet). They have a hard time taking enemy boons down, and instead, have to just go through them with raw force. They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

That last line is like the punch line of a joke.

They may have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

Note that it does not say that they must have a hard time with conditions and must need help, it says they may have a hard time and may need help. This is true still. If a warrior does not trait for the condition removal and does not bring skills and/or food which help with conditions, then he will have the trouble with conditions. If he does spec appropriately, he will not. So, a warrior may indeed have a hard time with enemy conditions, and may need to ask for ally help in order to keep themselves free of hampering conditions.

May. Not must, may. The word infers that he may also not.

This is simple English people. It’s a really useful language. I would suggest those people who keep referring to this dev statement as proof that the warrior is out of line of the original balance premise learn a little bit of English before coming here and embarrassing themselves with their lack of understanding of a simple and oft used word.

You seem to not comprehend that having one class be specifically mentioned as possibly having trouble with conditions and having no other classes mentioned as potentially having that same weakness sort of implies that warrior should have a harder time dealing with conditions with equal investment into that capacity, which is not the case currently. Warriors have some of the best condition removal in the game accessible with little (compared to what other classes have to do) investment.

So before you start waxing eloquent about how other people are just stupid for not understanding the word “may”, please give some more serious thought to the logical basis of your argument.
Honestly, they could have been using “may” in the sense that warriors don’t have trouble with conditions when conditions are not being applied to them, which frankly makes a lot more sense than giving warriors permission to have trouble with conditions (which is how you interpret it).

Swagg.9236:

It’s going to be a learn to play issue. It won’t be at all impossible, but it would require a little practice—unlike most things in this game.

Axialbloom.8109:

There is already too much dodging in this game,

Trait-related vigor nerfs are coming. Sigil of Energy is pretty crazy, though ESPECIALLY now that you can just get one for free on two-handed weapons. That might be something to think about.

Axialbloom.8109:

and half the abilities you altered can just be walked out of, yet require a target.

AoE’s don’t require a target. They can even circumvent line of sight if you play it right. As for worrying about enemies walking out of a delayed AoE, then DON’T cast it on top of them. It’s a learned finesse to be able to lead a target with a delayed AoE attack. Plan ahead. Use your friends as help if need be.

That said, once again, I think that my current suggestion for [Lightning Strike] is a little too unforgiving. I think it’d be best to tweak the damage and then give it a 150 radius AoE. If I was still managing to hit people with the first tick of an untraited [Lava Font] in pvp, a 150 radius AoE would be very viable, would raise the skill cap of elementalist and also provide scepter with some additional AoE.

Axialbloom.8109:

Also, there are these things called lag, and Anet’s horrible rubberbanding code.

There is that, but I won’t consider “lag” or “rubberbanding” as something to consider when balancing. Although it exists, one can’t just factor in random variables into the balancing process; one needs a clean slate.[/quote]

I do think that the version of your lightning strike should be 1/2 second delay as opposed to the full second, mostly because of the extra delay it will already receive by way of ground targeting.

EDIT: something terrible happened to the quote.

That sounded mean, sorry :P. I do like most of the suggestions, I just think that skills that hit instantly are part of what is keeping scepter and possibly elementalist on the whole from getting much needed improvements in other places.

I’m fine with spells being instant cast, but they should not instantly hit if they are (well except for the blind, I agree, but that’s a special case in that it actually promotes skillful use and timing). It’s sort of against the whole reason I play this game, which is the ability to counterplay with skill and not with builds.

The best part about the thread is the alliteration in the title. The suggestions I would make is to reduce the number of instant-ticking skills like air 2, because they’re sort of counterplay breaking.

reikken.4961:

if you want to do damage while not dying, you use a focus
you can complain that specific builds lack defensive measures, but you can’t complain that ele lacks defense mechanics

Ugh that’s an entirely different can of worms

Focus is the one set that allows us to have inherent defense. The problem with it is that it has three skills that are horribly overpowered but would have appropriate cooldowns if that kind of power was acceptable (the invuln, magnetic wave, and the AoE destroy enemy projectiles), and five skills that are either horribly underpowered, have far too high cooldowns for what they do, or both.
What this results in is incredibly unreliable defense that runs moderately contrary to how elementalists were designed, in that they have four attunements that each do something different but important, but focus makes half of them marginal.
Focus needs serious work before you can really say that it’s a good defensive weapon.

Falunel.7645:

Let me preface this by saying that I am an elementalist- have been since launch, made and still make a daily habit of soloing champs for the hell of it, run glassy builds in organized groups.

That being said, I am in favor of nerfing Fiery Rush. No matter however which way you dice it, there’s nothing not broken about a mechanic that lets you down a boss before it can ever pull out its most threatening attacks. DPS-oriented groups should down an enemy faster than non-DPS groups, but not to the point that it trivializes the fight entirely.

However, the rest of the elite IMO should be left alone. It does good but not absurd damage considering its CD, and as with all conjures, holding a FGS locks you off from your weapon skills, where a lot of active defenses are located. So nerf Fiery Rush (reduce the damage of the trail and/or make it just do burning), but leave the rest of FGS alone.

I would think that the logical solution would be to remove the ability to stack the AoEs in one spot. Make it so that the ticks on it have an ICD.

Richo.3081:

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Richo.3081:

I disagree with this… you get invulns, projectile absorb, heaps of dodges, arcane shield (3 blocks + can proc more damage)

Its a high risk high reward class, I think its fantastic

Equipping all kinds of defensive skills does not equate to a class being sustainable or decently survivable if these defensive skills have such short durations on such atrocious cooldowns.

Then equip an energy sigil and you have f1-f4 with an internal cd of like.. 5-6s I think. I have no problems staying alive on my glass ele in PVE and the only defensive utility I use is arcane shield, so I don’t actually understand why there is such commotion about the caster class being so squishy…

It’s nine seconds CD on energy, and staying alive in normal PvE situations is not something that you can really be proud of. Honestly you could easily drop Arcane Shield and still be fine most of the time.

reikken.4961:

As an Ele in full exotics + ascended I have 11.8k health, 1800 armor and no powerful defense mechanics

pff, ele has very powerful defense mechanics
namely, invulnerability, blocking, and disables (daze, death, knockdown)

You’re completely right, we spend the most time dead out of any profession, and while you are dead you are immune to CC, conditions, and damage.

Our in-life damage invulnerability is characterized by having an absurdly high cooldown while not being able to do anything in it, our blocking by having an absurdly high cooldown and blocking at maximum three attacks, and our disables by having very high cooldowns and usually requiring the enemy to inflict it upon themselves.

This… is amazing.
Do they die when their target does?

I was only using the staff ele reflect.

ArthurDent.9538:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBUZ3MbjEHg

There is your single devastating attack. Too bad it is highly situational and half the player population thinks it is an exploit that should be fixed immediately

There’s meteor+tornado as well, but people feel the same way about that too.

Apparently having low armor and health isn’t a good reason for us to do high damage.

Kyon.9735:

fellyn.5083:

Kyon.9735:

fellyn.5083:

Deniara Devious.3948:

fellyn.5083:

Warriors got a lot of buffs because they were literally 1 trick ponies in pve only. In wvw or any form of pvp they were all but considered free kills. The warrior representation was next to nil.

So, yes, I’m aware of the history. Still the whole “warrior has heavy armor so it shouldn’t be fast” argument is very tired. Since when has GW2 ever followed the typical mmo tropes?

Warriors were the backbone of WvWvW zerg meta from Autumn 2012. Telling anything else is either just a blatant lie or shows ignorance of this game mode. Warriors were never weak in pve or WvWvW and buffing them for this game mode has been overdone.

I haven’t used the heavy armor argument at all. I know that protection > armor in most cases. The base health pool size and mobility however matters.

I am not asking to have warrior’s nerfed to the ground since I am playing one, but there are few issues which need addressing:

1. mobility (GS #5 needs its CD increased and range brought down to 900, warhorn CDs and effects should be looked upon with quick breathing trait)
2. longbow #5 needs to be toned down (compare it with any other immobilize weapon skill e..g guardian hammer #3 and engi rifle #2 and you see it is overpowered and at the same time longbow #1 could do roughly 10% more damage)
3. Healing signet needs to have its passive effect reduced and its active effect buffed up (in general signets should more active use for all professions)

“I haven’t used the heavy armor argument at all”

That’s probably why I wasn’t quoting you to begin with don’t you think?

As for the rest..

1) Okay. Fine. But make it so it doesn’t outright miss your target 98% of the time for no particular reason.

So Warriors have the right to complain while Eles with offhand dagger (RTL) don’t?

Where did I say that?

Sorry, that was just a sarcastic post. My point is devs please fix RTL too. Too many bugs (misses for no reason, rubberbands, etc) never been fixed since it was nerfed

keoma.5210:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

keoma.5210:

“The only logical solution is to nerf warrior mobility.”
I don’t see the logic here exactly.
Not the warrior, but another class would be the fastest, overpowered class. Do you consider it a solution?
Seems like you don’t want any balance, you just want to nerf warriors because you hate them, or one of them.

The point is – warrior have too much of everything. It is a joke that a HEAVY armor class is able to escape SO easily and so freely without punishment. If Ride The Lightening deserved to be so heavily nerfed, the same should happen to Rush.

Two words: Fiery greatsword.
Elementalists still can run as fast as a gepard.

How long is the cooldown for FGS though? Comparing utility/elite skills to weapon skills is .__.

180 seconds, in case any of you are too lazy to look it up.