Guild Wars 2

The only time I’ve been downed by a burn guard, once, when the patch first landed and I expected a medi guard. That was also the last time as I have been happily cleaving them with my marauder medi guard. Never lost 1v1 to a burn guard since. It’s simple, don’t let the stacks get too high but don’t cleanse immediately at one stack either. Cleanse AFTER they do their rotation. Same as how you would deal with any other condi stacking class. Also for the love of god don’t stand in the fire.

I do feel that while condis are particularly strong and burning may need tweaking, people are just not used to playing with the new build system and not used to dealing with condi guards.

Similarly, 2 mesmers on the other team = cluster kitten for opposing team. If you see 4 guards on the opposite team, maybe switch out some skills/traits to better deal with specific guard bursts and condis.

I hope you all brought your flame-proof coat. I do think that a lot of dealt with issues are being brought back up because people don’t know a stress test isn’t a beta weekend.

Yo mama so ugly even the Risen were like ‘daaaayuuum’.

Yo mama so fat, a Jotun mistook her for his wife.

Yo mama so ugly, she is why the Gods are absent.

Yo mama so fat, Zhaitan couldn’t ‘raise’ her if he tried.

Yo mama so stupid she won’t complete any map because she ’hasn’t got windows vista’.

Yo mama so fat, her cankles reach the bottom of the unending ocean.

Yo mama so ugly, she makes dredge cry.

Yo mama so hipster, she worshipped Abaddon before it was cool.

I think the problem we have is that not only is there gaping holes in their history, with grenth we can put 2 and 2 together and state that he is Malchor’s son, as he ‘rose where his father fell’, malchor jumped from ’malchor’s fall’ in Orr, so we could place him becoming a God at a somewhat specific timeline before the exodus, after the creation of the statues, before the exodus, at the fall of dhuum. Same with Kormir in terms of we know specifically where she became a God.

Lyssa’s scriptures probably were dated later due this this (from GWW);

“Lyssa spent time living among the humans, veiled and hidden, in the village of Wren. However, when Arah was completed she was called to join the other Gods.”

This is further confirmed in the Orrian History Scrolls;

“For a while she lived, veiled and hidden, in the village of Wren. When the building of Arah was completed Lyssa was commanded to join the other gods, though her tears fell like rain among the western road.”

Lyssa is the 4th entry after Dwayna, Balthazar and Melandru, so it could be safe to say that with Grenth being the 6th, that the other gods do predate him.

Interestingly according to GWW;

“Long before the Exodus of the Gods, Dhuum was challenged and usurped by Grenth and seven heroes who followed him and was struck down in the ossuary of the Cathedral of Eternal Radiance in Orr.” Suddenly I am going to visit and scour around Orr a bit…..

In terms of the dating of the scriptures, I would like to see if any Anet staff could give us the date in which Arah was being built/established, the date of the first statues being completed and maybe a date of when Grenth ascended.

In terms of not knowing if dwayna has feathers, the dervish themselves communed into a wingless avatar, and the statues that Malchor sculpted, he did AFTER witnessing them, his version of Dwayna has angelic wings.

The largos ‘fins’ and risen priestesses of dwayna is literally a model thing, not really lore related.

Well the eternal alchemy does have a problem, like Konig correctly stated, that it does not seemingly allow for random, it is purely a fate or destiny driven machine, very unlike the real world equivalent of the ‘theory of everything’ in which the eternal alchemy tries to explain actions, outcomes and events, things that are unpredictable.

I do however believe that it is the closest to a true description of the six gods. The harpies issue with Dwayna isn’t so strange in other mythologies like Greek, where gods frequently made ‘their representative race’.

I would set the original pantheon that we know of as Melandru, Balthazar’s Father, Dwayna, Dhuum and Abaddon’s predecessor.

@Konig, you are correct about my confusion over the OP, apologies.

The OP makes some grand speculations on part of the six gods, however, as we have in lore only seen one human become a god, but that was with the help of the other 5. Also his speculation as to the reason for their absence has been debunked in the priory library.

The best way to think of the nature of the six is that they are completely separate from the Elder Dragons, as the Elder Dragons seem intrinsic with the nature of Tyria, but the gods are not explicitly from Tyria (except Grenth and Kormir).

In terms of Mursaat involvement, I would suggest that they are ‘enemy of my enemy’ or instead, based on their previous cowardice with the last rise of the Elder Dragons, allied with Mordremoth in exchange for magic, as their race was nearly entirely wiped out. Or they could potentially be a third option and purely in it for themselves. We know there is a bloodstone nearby where the HoT area is, we also know that they are not nice or well-meaning beings (their treatment of Saul being evidence of this) who have previously abused bloodstones. They could be after the bloodstone for their own power and have jumped into action to prevent ‘their’ stone from being taken by mordremoth or the races of Tyria.

I think your reading a little too much speculatively.

Deities in plenty of religions are born and have parents, most pantheons are like that, so there would be nothing strange there.

My objection is where you say ‘we know that they were once mortal and ascended’, which it may be the case that they are all still ‘mortal’ as we can ‘kill’ them as we did with Abaddon, but we do not know anything prior to their arrival from the Mists.

Pretty much all accounts of them center around them arriving from the mists already powerful beings, in which they, seeded many races unlocked the bloodstones and gifted magic to mortals and then left after the fall of Abaddon.

They would be classed as ‘immortal’ but only in their agelessness probably. The asura probably have the best version that they are part of the eternal alchemy, powerful beings, but nevertheless a part of something larger, though they are pseudo-confirmed to be not related to the elder dragons.

Mem no Fushia.7604:

Pyriel.4370:

Only one god is shown to have ascended from a pure mortal to ‘god’ after deposing[…]

Imo in future maybe we will discover that every of them ascended in way that glint’child will ‘ascend’ / ‘elder-evolve’ / ‘magic-sphere-fication’. I’m especially wait to see that Dwayna was from very noble Largos’ House. Imo she and her priestess from Cathedral of Zephyrs near Tempest Waypoint were largos. Largos or at least she traveled to other world and then she back with other gods to Tyria or that whole race is from other world. Time much time will pass until things will be unfold. Until that we can speculate.

The OP said “We know that the gods were once mortal. I suspect that they found some way to tap into those vast stores of magic in order to ascend.”

Hence my post saying we know that is not the case as the origins of the 6 gods because we don’t know where they come from except Grenth and Kormir, and they became as such by deposing the previous gods, Abbadon and Dhuum.

Also the Largos ‘wings’ are more akin to fins of a ray, whereas the priestess was pretty much wearing a costume as well as Dwayna pretty much having nothing to do with the realm of the Lagos, nor looking like one at all.

Dwayna’s wings were always depicted as feathered, and other depictions have no wings at all and blue skin (the Dervish Avatar of Dwayna). Largos are all about assassination and death, as well as being a deep sea race. Dwayna was the Goddess of Life and Air and the one who brought the humans to Tyria from the mists, as well as being Grenth’s mother.

The similarities between the Risen Priestess and the Lagos is more practical, as the wiki states thusly;

“Early concept art for Lyssa’s statue shows her wearing a mask similar to those of the largos.¹ Perhaps too much should not be read into this; for example what was originally supposed to be a Risen Largos ended up being used as the Risen Priestess of Dwayna.”

Errors with the OP’s post;

Only one god is shown to have ascended from a pure mortal to ‘god’ after deposing Abbadon (Kormir), another is reported to have ascended from being the child of a mortal and Dwayna after deposing Dhuum (Grenth). The original six; Balthazar, Melandru, Dwayna, Dhuum, Abbadon and Lyssa have an extremely murky past and it has never been mentioned that they were ever mortal. I think you may be confused between Ascension in the generic term and ‘Ascension’ from GW1.

There is a book in the priory library stating that there is no evidence for any link between the six gods and the elder dragon. We do not know at all why the gods became absent, it is unlikely to be due to their power weakening, as there are a few times in which we get in contact with one of Grenth’s reapers who would likely say something along the lines of Grenth being in trouble and would likely aid the Tyrians against the Elder Dragon more to save their master.

The six gods arrived from the mists onto Tyria where the dragons had already been for millennia and it pretty much seems the six were unaware of the Elder Dragon’s presence.

I really like the concept that the human gods are just really powerful beings rather than gods, like the spirits of the wild etc and are purely capable of being fallible and flawed.

This opens up for many potential storylines as to why they disappeared and stepped back from Tyria. Maybe they will reinvent the original storyline that angels/demons descend on Tyria with the aim of judging and destroying it. In which the six gods are imprisoned/corrupted by these beings, in which you would need to either free or destroy them by traversing the mists. This could easily tie in some old lore such as the realm of torment for GW1 fans and open up a LOT more potential lore regarding the mists and the fractals.

“Cultural reasons are irrelevant as characters are individuals.”

Nope, culture shapes the individual and their base behaviours in the first place, and if culture didn’t matter, then there would be no basic precedent for any race’s behaviours, when we know there are;

The charr are typically aggressive, the Asura are typically arrogant, the humans are very much ‘human’, the norn are proud and the sylvari are curious.

Your own culture shaped who you were, if you were from Saudi Arabia, you would be unlikely to be so liberal as your culture would prevent a lot of it. In actual fact, the cultural differences between the races would be enough to prevent any kind of interbreeding beyond fringe attitudes.

“I think it is extremely relevant because your reasoning unintentionally I am sure mirrors the excuses made for people opposing same sex relationships.”

This is why I ignore your points somewhat. Because I have reasoning that is frank and realistic, apparently it is similar to homophobia -.-

“Before I begin I must point out the only thing that matters is that two sentient beings are mutually attracted to each other. There is no “healthy” caveat there. Cultural reasons are irrelevant as characters are individuals.”

Again, another reason why your points are not that strong. If you want to attribute realistic attraction and relationships and use real life examples for how interracial relationships can occur in GW2, you cannot just go ‘but all that biology stuff, that doesn’t matter.’

“The Charr could look exactly like a lion and it still would not be bestiality. "

Having sex outside of the human species in real life is extremely taboo, illegal and bestiality. That is likely to mirror human attitudes to human x charr/asura and more recently human x sylvari.

“I shot down the bestiality thing before but will do so more specifically now. These are all sentient beings.”

Not really, you assume that because sylvari have ‘working parts’ despite them being designed as such, that the charr and asura must be the same despite gigantic differences.

“Neither of us knows if Rytlock or less likely Logan have attraction for each other. Only the lore developers or definitive examples in the actual lore could define that.”

We know Logan is gunning for Jennah and Rytlock is pretty much blood legion tribune through and through.

Star Trek was fully of extremely humanoid hybrids, like EXTREMELY humanoid.

Star Wars, the hybrids there were select, again, extremely humanoid species, unless they genetically manipulated the subjects.

Elder Scrolls has many examples where mating is not possible due to too much genetic variation, as well as the lack of half-breeds as well as the society’s in the elder scrolls universe making such things extremely taboo.

Also there are huge discussions on the subject in all of those circles.

Anyways, I’m done with this topic, too much time wasted on a debate on a fictional circumstance that is theoretical on top of that. Hence my recent multiple attempts to drag the conversation back to the original thread context and subject matter as that is worth an in depth discussion on how it could be implemented.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Meditation_DPS_Variant

I would change the following for shout based builds;

Shelter for the heal is paramount for pvp, no other heal offers the blocks.

Switch out radiance for valor, radiance has meh traits unless you are going condi and valor has altruistic healing which synergises well with shouts, plus you can grab strength in numbers and the focus trait as well.

Swap out unscathed commander, the amount of times your aegis lasts long enough to benefit from it is minimal when you are a shout build and not using ranged. I’d get retaliatory subconscious for the extra aegis when hard cc’d.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Bunker

That is what I would use if I was using shouts.

The problem with shouts and dps is that shouts and soldier runes pretty much is a bunker set up. The classes atm are either too bursty or condi heavy, so if you go any bunker, you go full bunker for more survivability. Don’t worry though, the bunker now can beat people 1v1, it just takes a while longer.

Tengu here, the link to cantha is tantalising but also the tengu are just kitten cool.

I am merely pointing you in the direction of more appropriate places to have a cross-species discussion.

Regarding relationships, my overarching point is that the precedent for breaking any kind of taboo is that these attractions happen naturally without mental illness. E.g. Homosexuality occurs naturally and is not a mental illness (I will get to that later), merely an orientation, though the most common attractions are governed by the ability to have healthy offspring (that can be governed by status symbol health such as large belly to promote you have access to a lot of food, as was such a trait in ancient times, or nowadays a ‘healthy’ svelte look which would signify good genetics, though these are also unconscious somewhat).

Sexuality and finding someone attractive enough to have an intimate relationship with constitutes a sexual relationship, not platonic. A platonic relationship can be intimate but not sexual, which is what you would describe, which Logan and Rytlock pretty much already have. It is a close relationship akin to blood brothers, i.e. no sexual attraction (which is where the genetics come in in regards to setting the precedent).

You seem to go down the sexual route, hence why I spoke about genetics and how attraction comes into it as typically for a species to find something attractive, they on a base level perceive it as something that they could have offspring with, this sets the precedent for emotional confirmation of why it is a good thing (if you don’t find something sexually attractive it can become rather difficult to have a sexual relationship), which is why Homosexuality, for example, is partly taking so long to become non-taboo in world culture as there are many who fall back on the offspring issue.

Logan and Rytlock for example would never have a sex drive for each other because of the difference in species, same as it would be Logan and Zojja, not to mention they all have platonic relationships, intimate but not sexual. So if you are talking about a relationship in which there is no sexual contact, that would be platonic, not a boyfriend or girlfriend as that would be a sexual relationship.

By saying that it is possible for a charr and human to have a sexual relationship you are saying that they could have sexual intercourse, rather than anything to do with personality, as it is the sexual intercourse that differentiates between platonic and sexual relationship.

As we must assume that humans and charr are close genetically or exact copies genetically to real world counterparts (homo sapiens and big cats), we can also assume that there would be no basis of common levels of attraction between the two races due to the above stated reasons thus no possibility of a healthy sexual attraction.

Hence it being most likely due to cultural, biological and lore-based reasons, that charr and humans are only capable of platonic relationships.

Leo G.4501:

Pyriel.4370:

They are both of the feline order and not massively genetically diverged. That is how they can mate and produce offspring. They are what humans would be to neanderthals genetically. Poor example there as I should also point out that Ligers, for example, happen almost exclusively in captivity where we encourage it, and they are born with genetic defects such as infertility, so via natural selection, lions/tigers who showed that behaviour of interspecies mating would have their genetics die out, while the other behaviours survive and carry on.

The reason we are so interested in the activity of dolphins is because they show weird aspects to their behaviour. Another poor example.

Charr x Human would be close to human and a talking lion that walks on it’s hind legs rather than lion x tiger.

For one, not all hybrid species happen in captivity. You even prove so yourself when you mention Neanderthals (whether we do or don’t have some of their dna has yet to be dismissed). New species come from various situations, from mutation to cross-breeding.

And you’ve yet to prove how any of these are bad examples. To qualify as cross-species, you simply have to be of a different species. That’s it.

And the various behaviors of dolphins aren’t only of captive ones. Keep searching.

I’d say keep trying to point out the difference between charr and humans but it’s getting repetitive as you continue to neglect the things they have in common.

You missed my point massively when I talked about the ligers. It is that they are genetically close, charr and humans would be genetically different by gigantic chasms of differences in dna etc. It is a given, I don’t have to show you a genetic map of why tigers and lions match somewhat (even though the offspring is defective), they are both feline and similar size/similar build. Cross species can only properly occur with VERY similar animals, where they at least belong to very similar species, e.g. bear x bear, giant salamander x giant salamander, owl x owl. You won’t get a bear to mate with a lion unless you force it in captivity.

The reasons why it will never happen in GW2. Lore, Taboo, Real social attitudes from players and it’s allusions to beastiality.

I have forwarded you to a more appropriate thread regarding this earlier. Can this thread return to it’s original purpose or not? Or are you going to continue beating the same stick at perceived discrimination towards a fictional race?

Here are the links again;

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Are-there-interracial-couples/first#post1443717

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Could-an-interracial-couple-reproduce

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Interracial-relationship

Leo G.4501:

Pyriel.4370:

It is the basis for attraction. Homosexuality is seen in nature, cross species is not.

Just wanted to comment that this is false.

Google hybrid species. Consider tigers and Lions can and do cross breed and they are of different species. Also look up some activities of dolphins. There are plenty of examples.

They are both of the feline order and not massively genetically diverged. That is how they can mate and produce offspring. They are what humans would be to neanderthals genetically. Poor example there as I should also point out that Ligers, for example, happen almost exclusively in captivity where we encourage it, and they are born with genetic defects such as infertility, so via natural selection, lions/tigers who showed that behaviour of interspecies mating would have their genetics die out, while the other behaviours survive and carry on.

The reason we are so interested in the activity of dolphins is because they show weird aspects to their behaviour. Another poor example.

Charr x Human would be close to human and a talking lion that walks on it’s hind legs rather than lion x tiger.

Leo G.4501:

Pyriel.4370:

Mammal is a large demographic, from Rodents to Blue Whales. It doesn’t mean there are any levels of compatibility unless they are VERY close evolutionarily speaking E.g. Elephants cannot bear children from Whales. Plumbing or no.

And we all realize this. Bearing children had no bearing on the discussion, however. Not when you’re talking same sex relations either. What we’re saying is charr, humans, norn, elephants, blue Whales, etc have male and female genitalia and that’s all you need to interact. The main hurdle to cross is size difference and arousal. Again, finding another race appealing is going to differ with individuals. And I’m done talking about that because further all likely get this thread locked. Already commented about cross racial and species attraction and will tell you to just research it.

I’ll just go on the record as saying I don’t find a relationship between a charr and a human grosse or inconceivable. I actual think it’s sweet since likely it’d involve a charr who seeks companionship but struggling to find such in their own race because of the majority of their culture. And It’d likely involve a human who looks past superficial boundaries and problematic history with their ancestry.

In a society like tyria where everyone is pretty much at war, the ability to bear children is a thing that would influence relationships in mainstream society (except sylvari), this would typically also be determined if they are able to find each other attractive, which likely would not be the case in regards to Asura and Charr as they are only humanoid by their bipedalism (not full bipedalism for Charr) and arms/hands.

Same sex relationships are one thing culturally, inter-species sexual relations would be extremely taboo regarding charr, asura and the other races.

If they ever did anything like that, it would likely be a norn and a human (as they have done in GW1 where one of the quests has you nearly marry a norn).

Now let’s turn the topic back to how they could introduce a homosexual character in GW properly.

Mammal is a large demographic, from Rodents to Blue Whales. It doesn’t mean there are any levels of compatibility unless they are VERY close evolutionarily speaking E.g. Elephants cannot bear children from Whales. Plumbing or no.

Biological compatibility pretty much determines attraction. Intimate sexual relationships also involve love making, hence sexual relationships, if you have seen how felines mate, a human wouldn’t survive that if the charr were similar, considering the charr are also feline. Also this is a discussion of someone being labelled with a sexuality (homosexuality) which would mean sex comes into it.

In terms of finding other animals attractive, in the real world, that is messed up and also illegal to enact upon in most places for a reason, because that is gross.

This is again getting too far off topic for my liking anyways. I have linked a thread in my previous comment that has some very good points regarding interracial relationships in GW. I would suggest having a read and comment on that.

Seems what you are replying to is my reply to Leo G.

“Charr and humans are humanoid in shape, both are mammals and so are far more similar than different even then, and both are of roughly equal intelligence. The latter is pretty much the only thing that matters too.”

Well Charr are feline and likely will have feline sex organs, that work differently to human sex organs. That’s a start. I am also saying that attraction usually is based on your own race, or something extremely similar (even in Sci Fi the ‘attractive’ races do not vary much if at all from humans). It is basic biology. If a relationship doesn’t bear children, then it is likely a society would taboo it, Tyrians still have their prejudices, remember that.

“You keep bringing up reproduction when that is not the basis for all relationships, much less same sex ones.”

It is the basis for attraction. Homosexuality is seen in nature, cross species is not. I am not saying it is the basis for relationships, but an attraction kind of has to be there for an intimate sexual relationship. Most humans would likely go ‘eww charr? really?’. Again basic biology. Nevermind the cultural differences.

The realistic nature of Rytlock is that he is a soldier first and foremost and thinks of logan as a brother in arms and was pained by his betrayal that was made worse by the death of an ally. There is little to no reason to make them a romantic pairing.

Also Guild Wars will likely never have a ‘shocking’ interracial pairing simply because of many lore issues, many real life issues and there are other avenues for the story to develop.

Also most of this is now massively off-target for the original post and thread so to avoid it closing I would suggest bringing the conversation back to the original point of how Anet should involve a homosexual male in the storyline.

Please read this thread for anything further on this as it has many good points.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Are-there-interracial-couples

Leo G.4501:

There are plenty of examples of Norn and Charr ‘intimacy’ without the specific goal of reproduction. Asura are a more complicated subject, however.

I have never seen that :S please can you forward me to these parts?

Leo G.4501:

But intimacy need not be the only empathetic emotion that determines this matter in black and white. ….

Yes I get that platonic relationships can occur or care-giving relationships. In terms of sexual relationships though, biology comes a lot into that.

Leo G.4501:

The last part of your sentence pretty much counteracts the rest of this paragraph. …..

Please don’t take that out of context, that was in relation to there being a biological basis for sexual attraction while we have also superimposed emotional needs on top of procreation. In terms of the biological imperative, it gives humans a sex drive, therefore physical attraction for other humans, I don’t think that would work the same way for other races.

Leo G.4501:

Sure, the dragons are a threat, but they are a threat of another type. If the dinosaurs reproduced faster because they knew they’d become extinct if they didn’t, it wouldn’t have saved them. The elder dragons are meteors, here.

I would dispute that but that would tangent off this discussion.

Leo G.4501:

They are? To my knowledge, Kasmeer isn’t accepted within the nobles for completely different reasons than her sexuality and neither are outcast from society at all. Also, Tyria isn’t a pseudo-wartime, slightly ….

Yes, I meant that they were already living outside of society after both becoming outcast somewhat, Marjory being outcast from the Ministry Guard and Kasmeer from the nobles, in reality all of destiny’s edge 2.0 are outcast/undesirables, cept maybe Brahm. Marjory and Kasmeer’s relationship will likely not be frowned upon because they are not elites from the Human society, as there are likely to be prejudices and standards in the high society (as we know the nobles are not all that nice at all).

The races are also not working together as much as you’d think,

- The humans and charr led by Smodur have only just signed a peace treaty with separatism on both sides regarding it, and the humans are still contesting for land with the Centaurs, and the charr are still contesting land with the Ascalonians.

- The asura knew about certain aspects of the dragons consuming magic and worked to keep it a secret while they made sure rata sum benefitted from it. The asura also think of themselves as superior to other races, some even sympathising with the inquest using the other races for experiments.

- Quite a few Sylvari split to join the Nightmare court, waging war on the dream and it’s supporters.

- Each race has major separatism and/or civil war conditions, and regards other races with suspicion somewhat, bear in mind Lion’s arch and the Orders are kind of anomalies with the orders act something like how the Church acted during Medieval times in terms of your allegiance switching from your ‘country’ to your order, and Lions Arch being founded by Pirates who already were outcasts.

The conditions are very much war-like, leaps in tech come from the wartime conditions against the dragons and other issues. Like the Ghost Flame being developed by the Ascalonians and stolen by the Charr. GW2’s universe is far from peacetime.

Also there is tons of poverty in GW, it is just never touched on that much due to other things taking precedent over that in the story and not being that appropriate to the story of defeating the elder dragons.

Leo G.4501:

And a charrxhuman relationship makes total sense! From what I’ve learned about Rytlock and Logan, I wouldn’t be thrown for a loop if one had feelings for the other. The backstory for two of my characters has unrequited love for the other but it doesn’t go far because of their goals being different and those characters are a Charr and human.

Charr x Human would make no sense. Charr for example leave their children to the legions and the Fahrar and have no bond with them really, humans rear their own children largely. Charr are feline, Humans are primate (would you find an intelligent lion attractive?). Logan loves Queen Jennah (duh) and Rytlock has a band of brothers aspect to pretty much all his relationships. He’s the tribune of the Blood Legion, I’d be surprised if he had time in his diary for any sexual relationship.

Leo G.4501:

The story tellers can make a lot of things work if they tell the story right. Don’t be so narrow-minded

While yes that is true, it is more how far should they concern themselves to go.

Either way if they put in a major gay character, I would wager it will he a sylvari or human with another of the same race (if they find their partner).

Zunnar.8503:

Firstly, the game is about far more than “killing big dragons,” ……

Yes I get that they can expand on Lore but these things don’t get much representation in-game and likely won’t. Hence the topic being interracial relationships in game.

Zunnar.8503:

Secondly, the ESRB system has no legal bearing….

No, but angry parents do, it is common practice to stay within it, it isn’t as voluntary as you’d think. While not legally binding, it is still important.

Zunnar.8503:

It’s clear at face value that all of the races are more similar to humans than not. Any quirks of specifics are kind of irrelevant in my opinion, even the fact that Sylvari …..

Quirks of specifics forge better storylines, in terms of relationships it is the specifics that matter. I get humans don’t only have intimacy for reproduction but can that be said for Norn, Asura and Charr? E.g. the Charr spend more time in the legions than with their partners.

Zunnar.8503:

And lastly, since I didn’t mention this, I think the only thing of significance is that the parties involved are desiring such intimacy. Similarity of anatomy is a superficial thing that shouldn’t matter at all, but even if it did they are all more similarly shaped than different.

Part of my point is would races desire intimacy with other races, hence the whole ‘because we don’t have an example in real life, we don’t know’ because our human sexuality is founded on the biological imperative to have children, otherwise we wouldn’t have a sex drive. Sure there are more intelligent aspects to it now since we became intelligent as a species but that foundation is still there.

Zunnar.8503:

Interracial relationships in the context of the game have nothing to do with any real world issues considering for one we do not know of any other species with intelligence comparable with humanity and for two most of the civilized world is long past mass opposition to interracial relationships.

You were quoting real world issues such as segregation. Also ‘realistic’ and reflective storylines seem to work best.

Zunnar.8503:

The whole “can produce offspring” argument is one of the flimsiest ones in existence in trying to determine if a relationship is appropriate. It is pretty much only ever brought up as …….

In terms of acceptance, the base argument and reason that homosexuals had/have such a hard time is people cannot accept it as natural because it cannot bear children. I’m not saying that is the correct opinion but it is a great gauge on how a pseudo-war time, slightly impoverished medieval community would react. Like a mob. Sure Marjory and Kasmeer could be fine, but they are already outcasts and live outside the norms of Tyrian society.

Zunnar.8503:

It may not be ArenaNet’s responsibility to chime in on social issues, but it’s certainly not their responsibility to avoid any taboo that might raise the hackles of people with hyperjudgemental perspectives on intimacy. I’ll note that I’ve noticed people out to judge other relationships tend to be absolutely obsessed with the physical mechanics of sex too. How everyone’s bits are shaped and whether they can produce children are 100% irrelevant when talking about two consenting sentient adult characters. I am not accusing anyone here of this perspective, but the post I’m responding to certainly suggests ArenaNet should bow down to avoid making those with that perspective go all “eww gross.”

It was more that Anet should be concentrating on more stuff than world issues regarding sexuality in the game, after all it is an action MMO. I would doubt they would go down the route of a charr x human relationship particularly because lore wise it wouldn’t make much sense.

There are many good points there.

In terms of tortured though I mean the stereotype that gay men are either so far out of the closet that they are on the moon with rainbow parades and a lisp, or they are so far in they cry themselves to sleep, the latter being the ‘tortured’ stereotype (the tortured one holds some small amounts of water in that coming out is still a stressful event).

The problem with the species thing is segregation of relationships would happen naturally between species and humans do tend to stick to humans (i.e. there aren’t many humans that break that taboo). The difference between miscegenation laws and how it would seem in GW is likely to be night and day as, for example, being African or European holds no real physical difference except for slight cosmetic and genetic differences and all the parts work as intended regardless. My trepidation is how that would be different in regards to other sentient races, where the difference is so great, they could even not be able to conceive a child from said union, which is a good marker for whether a society would initially be supportive of this or not, or whether attraction is actually possible. We have no real life examples or observations of the interaction of one intelligent species with other different intelligent species, hence not knowing how it would work, but it would be safe to say when looking at our own Medieval history, lines would be drawn, no matter how liberal the Queen is.. Plus unless we had the full anatomy of the races, I would doubt most of this question regarding sexual relations between all the species of GW2 would ever be answered.

But bear in mind this is a game rated Teen, so people from ages 13 can play it legally. So while I can imagine GW2 pushing some boundaries, I wouldn’t think they would put gigantic focus on this and tbf this game is about killing big dragons, so I doubt they should either as well Anet has social responsibility as a business, it should not really be trying to solve the world’s issues.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Pyriel.4370:

I do think this game and the community should avoid trying to forcefully insert lgbt/minority characters for the sake of a ‘tickbox’.

That being said, a gay character should be someone where it makes sense and is not “oh! btw here is a gay guy! aren’t we so progressive!” Plenty of gay characters are overly portrayed as such to the point where it is their identity, which is stupid. I am heterosexual, does that define me? Not really, no one ever says to me ‘OMG that is SO hetero!’ In general media whenever a gay character has been attempted they follow this general gist;

Lesbians are either the plaid shirt, earthy masculine woman or ridiculously attractive.

Gays are either super camp/flamboyant or massively tortured.

Either way they are defined by their sexuality. Which is not really the kind of character I would want to see.

I would prefer they design a character that is real and makes sense, where his sexuality only defines love interests rather than their personality and struggles. It should never be a ‘tickbox operation’, it should be done because it works.

You have no idea how ridiculous what you just said is. There are plenty of gay women who are masculine or are conventionally ‘attractive, just as there are plenty of gay men who are flamboyant or who are tortured (you try not being tortured when you grow up in a world that deprives you of the same rights as everyone else?). To deny those people representation simply because you personally interpret it as pandering to a political agenda is not ok. We need more representation, not less or specifically codified representation. Nothing Arenanet has done has been a ’tickbox operation’. It’s inclusivity because they as a company believe in inclusivity. You are only able to perceive it as a tickbox operation because it isn’t normative in the media.

Do you look at hetero relationships in the game and go ‘oh well they’re just too conventionally hetero, they’re obviously pandering to the hetero agenda’. No you don’t, so don’t do it to LGTBQ representation.

Also, asking for gay characters where their sexuality isn’t their identity is also kind of ridiculous. For a lot of LGTBQ people their sexuality does become a huge part of their identity and daily life because it is non-normative and we live in a world where non-normative people are underrepresented. You are far more self aware of your own sexuality when 90% of people and relationships portrayed in the media don’t represent you…

Ok, you took me really the wrong way there it is almost insulting.

I meant masculine or overtly ‘attractive’ as in the stereotypes that lesbians are represented with. I know plenty of lesbians who are by no means either of those, they are not overtly masculine or sexualised. Same with gay men, I know plenty of gay men who are not the stereotype of flamboyant or tortured. Is it wrong for wanting to see less stereotypes? After all, isn’t the main aim of the LGBT movement equal treatment and 0 discrimination? It was that the last time I checked. Stereotypes only serve to undermine that.

Stop being offended for offended’s sake, it wont get you anywhere. I have made legitimate points in regards to not wanting GW characters to become a lgbt/minority ‘tickbox’ operation rather than actually having a character where their sexuality is only a small part of who they are, ya know…like most real people. It would serve no purpose to shoehorn characters in because ‘guild wars needs more gay people’, it has to make sense to the story.

By not being defined by their sexuality I mean someone who has MORE to them. I.e. a personality, hopes, dreams, struggles, flaws, strengths, talents.

My point about representation is an ACCURATE representation of homosexual people, where they are people, not their sexual demographic.

BTW I also dislike it when any relationship or sexual content is shoehorned, like the hero all of a sudden kisses the girl who until then had no interest in him (looking at you National Treasure). My point about me not being defined by my sexuality is that no one should be defined by just their sexuality, that is extremely shallow.

Please refrain from getting so worked up as that type of toxicity makes it difficult to have an actual conversation about a good topic. You really should calm down and read things through properly because all you have said to me is that we should shoehorn more gay stereotypes and it’s apparently fine to do that…

S2 is available on the gem store. It isn’t super expensive. So no.

If you really want to know the story but don’t want to pay, there are probably run throughs on youtube you can watch.

I do think this game and the community should avoid trying to forcefully insert lgbt/minority characters for the sake of a ‘tickbox’.

That being said, a gay character should be someone where it makes sense and is not “oh! btw here is a gay guy! aren’t we so progressive!” Plenty of gay characters are overly portrayed as such to the point where it is their identity, which is stupid. I am heterosexual, does that define me? Not really, no one ever says to me ‘OMG that is SO hetero!’ In general media whenever a gay character has been attempted they follow this general gist;

Lesbians are either the plaid shirt, earthy masculine woman or ridiculously attractive.

Gays are either super camp/flamboyant or massively tortured.

Either way they are defined by their sexuality. Which is not really the kind of character I would want to see.

I would prefer they design a character that is real and makes sense, where his sexuality only defines love interests rather than their personality and struggles. It should never be a ‘tickbox operation’, it should be done because it works.

Cross-species is a difficult one as we have no actual examples in modern life of other sentient and intelligent species to interact with and where a line would be drawn….though if you think logically norn x human maybe could work as both are overtly humanoid just different proportions but charr are feline and likely have feline sex organs…making procreation/sexual relations a bit awkward in regards to cross-species relationships with charr. Not to mention typically humans tend to stay within their own species in real life except for a few anomalies in society and not staying within your own species is a negative taboo, especially when the human sex drive is primarily for passing on genetics/having children so it would be likely considered strange for a human, for example, to find a charr attractive.

The cross-species with drastically different species (feline, primate, plant, imp?) thing is something a video game perhaps shouldn’t tackle as it could risk delving too deep into social taboos etc for a game and make it overly political. Other games were able to do it purely because for example WoW races are mostly humanoid and they never really delved massively into sexuality at all in the games.

Collero.7963:

apart from Mesmer & Rampage, I don’t see any problem with the outgoing damage at the moment. It’s far more fun to play this way…

Rampage warriors are the most interesting 1v1 i have fought so far, thinking about your opponent’s stance c/ds where one mistake can land a painful hit, where either can win. Love it! Rampager wars are my favourite to fight for that reason alone. (Medi Guard)

I wonder how many people who get downed immediately are wearing Zerker amulets and not marauder or crusader? True that damage overall could do with a slight tweak / tone down but in reality people need to start reinvesting in vitality and toughness because finally a glass cannon is now actually glassy.

i think the only thing that needs scaling down is overall damage output, some burst builds are able to 1 shot spike on their own and overloading with condis basically means game over almost 3 seconds after. Now you can invest in condition damage and have vitality and toughness and still do TONS of damage but for that kind of downing power, a power build has to invest in power, precision and ferocity.

It is simple to deal with physical attacks but maybe resistance needs to be more available. Or maybe just everything needs toning down a little.

Erm I’ve been killing plenty as a bunker, take advantage of people’s squishyness. Well timed and prioritised condi removal as an AH guard has done me well. Taken out condi guards, medi guards, mesmers etc

This is just what it is like with every meta shake up. No one knows what they are doing so the meta briefly shifts to zerk everything. Take advantage of that.

It is partly because a lot of builds have lost their stats from trait lines and those stats have been reallocated to gear (amulets for pvp). So someone running a zerker amulet will have a lot more power while a lot of builds are losing that toughness and vit they may have had from trait lines.

Bunker Guard seemed to do me well, no medi guard beat me last night as a bunker, I killed them all.

warhorn is still 8 new skills bear in mind.

Bunker guard feels strong in PvP. Seems to do very well in the current environment.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Guardian_-_Bunker

It’s pretty much that build with renewed focus and honorable staff.

I understand why the OP is angry, I really do. Unfortunately Anet cannot really change prices as people have already pre-ordered and the character slot is probably the best solution apart from giving out a character slot with the HoT standard.

You were able to get the game on a sale that was VERY low considering what Veterans had paid.

The idea behind Jan 23rd 2015 is players who were already playing prior to HoT’s announcement and subsequent hype.

It is your choice whether to purchase or not though I understand why you wouldn’t. It is just one of those things now.

Been trying it in PvP. It has been quite successful. Especially with everyone suddenly being more squishy. It is still early to tell but currently I have met with decent success as a bunker 1v1 and team fights.

I will gladly pre-purchase now that Anet have sufficiently apologised and included the character slot in good faith.

Rhanoa.3960:

Astralporing.1957:

Rhanoa.3960:

GW2 $69.99

3yr $0.00

Please, do tell me where i can buy core game for $0.00 with no additional, hidden (or not so hidden) costs.

Apparently it’s too vague for you. I’ll add more clarity for you.

GW2 $69.99

3yr Sub $0.00

Cash Shop (Optional)

1. Stop comparing to sub games, we do get a lot LESS content than some sub games. Features? maybe not, depends. Content? Definitely less. Please stop trying to white knight for that at least. You are being just as much a whiner as some arguing against you.

2. The cash shop is ‘optional’ enough for them to make more than enough from it. If you compare this to GW:EN which was the first expansion they did, it was MUCH cheaper and had a lot in it, and that didn’t need a gem store too. Funny that.

3. Goodwill being shown to new players while expecting players who are not new to pay the same high price tag with no benefit with goodwill at all, that is bad practice. You treat your customers equally or don’t have customers. EVERY SINGLE COMPANY knows that! It’s called customer retention.

4. Anets continuing silence on this has made this much worse. The price is still high for any expansion which is going to have much less than a full game which retails at the same price.

5. Anet got caught with shady marketing practice that gives people other causes for concern. Your defense of that only proves that you really are either arguing for argument’s sake or you really are comfortable arguing for a company that clearly committed a shady practice and has it’s head in the sand over it, regarding the recent discount to bundle/faq change.

6. We do not owe Anet any loyalty either as just as we gave them cash via the gem store and pre-ordered, gave them lip service, helped out their new players, reported bugs and suggested the changes that they are now making etc

7. A WoD pre-purchase got you a free level 90 also, which basically benefited both new, returning and current players. So please do not even TRY to say ‘look that was $50 too’, it gave a benefit that usually costs $60 bundled with a pre-purchase, and the standard version STILL includes that free boost.

8. Looks like you are still carrying on with that patronising attitude of yours too. It won’t get you anywhere except making people more annoyed at you.

9. Some of the very features going into this expansion are features that were meant to come at launch, like GvG and Guild Halls. So a lot of it is already promised material for cash paid also. It is not our fault Anet are deadline shy.

OP…..

Please stop whiteknighting, this is embarrassing to read. Whether it is reddit, gaming journalists or the general player base, you really are in the minority on this. Most people feel rightly peeved over this. Anet’s silence has also made it much worse.

You missed a big point, it isn’t WORTH $50 to everyone, especially when most of your player base go ‘No it isn’t worth $50’. In this whole sense we owe Anet nothing too as consumers. Based on how this is handled I’m surprised any turn up to the office, stressed is probably an understatement for how they probably feel for the failures of the higher ups, I’m genuinely hoping they don’t take this whole thing too personally. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Anet staff have been ‘gagged’ about this issue because someone forgot that communication is key in solving issues.

They got caught with a shady marketing issue which has made everyone second guess everything about the deals they offered. This isn’t entitlement, it is respect. Sure it’s not got a character slot, sure the fluff isn’t too flashy, but treat your customers the same and don’t try to rip them off.

Are things really that poor at Anet in regards to consistency and office/business management? I get developers can be chaotic at times but first anet get’s shy about deadlines switching to ‘when it’s ready’ to avoid flame wars, but most professionals in all walks of life really do keep to a healthy deadline all the time, why Anet is the exception is beyond me, but now it seems Anet is either incapable or uninterested in reducing any damage by making at least a statement on this issue. Both are worrying prospects.

If there is anyone at ArenaNet that needs a customer feedback to improve process or kickstart a change in policy and processes please use this. If this was my work, we would have had the investors biting off our heads to make a statement.

It really does seem like Anet can’t make it’s mind up on how to run itself as either super involved or really aloof and silent. The longer you leave this in the oven, the more it’s going to burn.

Rhanoa.3960:

Pyriel.4370:

Rhanoa.3960:

Pyriel.4370:

Rhanoa.3960:

Vanilla WoW $49.99

3yr $14.99 $539.64

1st Xpac TBC $49.99 + $29.99 Base Game

Blizzard’s marketing 2007. Many of would rather go back here than be down there.

---

GW2 $69.99

3yr $0.00

1st Xpac Hot $49.99 + Free Base Game

Anet’s marketing 2015. Rather than being here you would rather be up there.
*****************************************
Time to empty your wallets or move on to your next game!

The Burning Crusade released @ $39.99.

And lets be honest, TBC came with a ton of content. The sub argument also goes out the window when you are talking to regular gem purchasers.

http://hothardware.com/news/world-of-warcraft-burning-crusade-gets-release-date

Also the base game is not something you get if you already have it. I.e. if you purchase HoT now, unless you create a new account with HoT linked to that one, you won’t get another copy of the base game. So for a player who bought the original for $59.99 have to also pay $49.99, it starts to look sinister and too expensive for what we know we are going to get.

Suddenly it looks different right?

Feel free to read through thread rather than just skipping deciding what you feel is relevant.

Gem Purchases is an Optional feature once again. You are not forced.

Let me help you out over here as well.

com·pli·men·ta·ry

2.
given or supplied free of charge.
*
Many folks will see this as Bundled Pricing which is very common. 1 Disc or Digital Download that come with 2-6 game or movie rolled into one price. Do you decide to complain to Target how you only want to pay for Die Hard 2 or Lethal Weapon 3?

You still got the content and pricing wrong of your main argument. So the comparisons with the actual figures and content differences of what we know actually act against your point when you know the actual figures.

Also that bundle does not work as you seem to think.

Scenario 1: You are completely new with no account = You get the core and HoT.

Scenario 2: You have an account = You only get HoT with the same purchase, same price at the same time and do not get the extra core key.

In regards to gem purchases, many have spent enough on gems to match or beat that sub price.

Also, you are missing the main complaint of the player base, the price in general. $50 is a lot more than people expect to pay for an expansion, especially one where as far as we know, there isn’t as much content as other expansion packs for other games.

Please refrain from patronising phrasing, it doesn’t help anything unless you want this thread to get toxic.

Farming gold exchange for Gems buy HoT!
Purchasing HoT
Waiting 3mons – a year for the price to drop 10%-20%.

3 options on the plate to purchase the game.

Glad to see that you passively admit you got your original points wrong.

Rhanoa.3960:

Pyriel.4370:

Rhanoa.3960:

Vanilla WoW $49.99

3yr $14.99 $539.64

1st Xpac TBC $49.99 + $29.99 Base Game

Blizzard’s marketing 2007. Many of would rather go back here than be down there.

---

GW2 $69.99

3yr $0.00

1st Xpac Hot $49.99 + Free Base Game

Anet’s marketing 2015. Rather than being here you would rather be up there.
*****************************************
Time to empty your wallets or move on to your next game!

The Burning Crusade released @ $39.99.

And lets be honest, TBC came with a ton of content. The sub argument also goes out the window when you are talking to regular gem purchasers.

http://hothardware.com/news/world-of-warcraft-burning-crusade-gets-release-date

Also the base game is not something you get if you already have it. I.e. if you purchase HoT now, unless you create a new account with HoT linked to that one, you won’t get another copy of the base game. So for a player who bought the original for $59.99 have to also pay $49.99, it starts to look sinister and too expensive for what we know we are going to get.

Suddenly it looks different right?

Feel free to read through thread rather than just skipping deciding what you feel is relevant.

Gem Purchases is an Optional feature once again. You are not forced.

Let me help you out over here as well.

com·pli·men·ta·ry

2.
given or supplied free of charge.
*
Many folks will see this as Bundled Pricing which is very common. 1 Disc or Digital Download that come with 2-6 game or movie rolled into one price. Do you decide to complain to Target how you only want to pay for Die Hard 2 or Lethal Weapon 3?

You still got the content and pricing wrong of your main argument. So the comparisons with the actual figures and content differences of what we know actually act against your point when you know the actual figures.

Also that bundle does not work as you seem to think.

Scenario 1: You are completely new with no account = You get the core and HoT.

Scenario 2: You have an account = You only get HoT with the same purchase, same price at the same time and do not get the extra core key.

In regards to gem purchases, many have spent enough on gems to match or beat that sub price.

Also, you are missing the main complaint of the player base, the price in general. $50 is a lot more than people expect to pay for an expansion, especially one where as far as we know, there isn’t as much content as other expansion packs for other games.

Please refrain from patronising phrasing, it doesn’t help anything unless you want this thread to get toxic.

American sales tax isn’t usually included in the published price as it differs state by state.

They probably also go by the EU minimum standard rate of 15% VAT.

e.g. 100 dollars is 88.14 euros

88.14 euros x 1.15 (changing the amount to 115% to include the 15% vat) = 101.361 euros.

So europeans pay the right amount within 2 euros if you take the EU laws about a minimum 15% VAT. Anet likely either gets concessions or takes the loss of a few euro as the ‘cost of business in the EU’.

Europeans and the UK probably pay either just the right amount or slightly less before tax than americans do.

Broom.2561:

Pyriel.4370:

Broom.2561:

Plenty of other, cheaper fish in the sea. My husband is checking out Archage, and I’m having a look at The Secret World again, which had 11 comparable size expansions (priced between $5 and $10 per) since 2012. Maybe we’ll buy HoT when it reaches a similar price level… AND adds another character slot.

Value for money, or no deal.

Just a bit of advice, tried archeage, it is ok but a bit slow and not as well polished, also it is VERY farm heavy, but PvP farm heavy also. GW2 is better.

We’ve been in GW2 since beta… nothing here we’ve not seen or done yet. We’d love new content, we’re just not prepared to pay $60 per person for the content that HoT offers. Especially if that same money buys us 10x the content elsewhere.

I get that, I’m just saying Archeage isn’t actually that good a game. It’s a hype based thing, the combat is meh. Just saying it isn’t much of a replacement for GW2 and you would be better not spending your money on Archeage.

skowcia.8257:

Just a reminder folks, at HoT launch we wont even have full set of legendaries. That alone should speak about the size of dlc called heart of thorns

At HoT launch there will be no real gameplay, it’ll be buggy and crashing as the company always underestimates the servers needed, the login server will suddenly lose all stability and there will be uproar on the facebook page with people wanting refunds until the 6th maybe 7th day in which it calms down and becomes playable.

Broom.2561:

Plenty of other, cheaper fish in the sea. My husband is checking out Archage, and I’m having a look at The Secret World again, which had 11 comparable size expansions (priced between $5 and $10 per) since 2012. Maybe we’ll buy HoT when it reaches a similar price level… AND adds another character slot.

Value for money, or no deal.

Just a bit of advice, tried archeage, it is ok but a bit slow and not as well polished, also it is VERY farm heavy, but PvP farm heavy also. GW2 is better.

Again, it does not matter how you think it should be, people feel cheated and angered by Anet, Anet ignores them while putting up stuff about guild halls, people feel ignored, angry and cheated, Anet still keeps silent on the whole thing which angers the player base even more.

Lil hint, “just calm down, and chill” will also annoy people as it can be seen as patronising when someone is angry.

What Anet should do is at least make a proper statement on the issue and either justify the $50 price tag or throw in a character slot to the basic package.

Also don’t underestimate what goes on the forums and reddit, social media is a force to be reckoned with nowadays as any major company will tell you

You know what made this whole thing worse? They gave a poor excuse for the core game inclusion (in regards to those who recently purchased the discounted version) and they have kept completely silent on the pricing and purchasing tier system.

Regardless of what people are angry about, a company should NEVER be seen to ignore people, it only makes them more angry, and since Anet has not said anything regarding the elephant in the room beyond that ’it’s for the new players’ answer on the day, they have let the reddit and forums explode as people seethe and seethe and seethe.

I does not matter how you think it should be, people feel cheated and angered by Anet, Anet ignores them while putting up stuff about guild halls, people feel ignored, angry and cheated, Anet still keeps silent on the whole thing which angers the player base even more.

If this was a country, there would be legitimate riots right now regardless of the reason. This is not how you do PR.

Rhanoa.3960:

Vanilla WoW $49.99

3yr $14.99 $539.64

1st Xpac TBC $49.99 + $29.99 Base Game

Blizzard’s marketing 2007. Many of would rather go back here than be down there.

---

GW2 $69.99

3yr $0.00

1st Xpac Hot $49.99 + Free Base Game

Anet’s marketing 2015. Rather than being here you would rather be up there.
*****************************************
Time to empty your wallets or move on to your next game!

The Burning Crusade released @ $39.99.

And lets be honest, TBC came with a ton of content. The sub argument also goes out the window when you are talking to regular gem purchasers.

http://hothardware.com/news/world-of-warcraft-burning-crusade-gets-release-date

Also the base game is not something you get if you already have it. I.e. if you purchase HoT now, unless you create a new account with HoT linked to that one, you won’t get another copy of the base game. So for a player who bought the original for $59.99 have to also pay $49.99, it starts to look sinister and too expensive for what we know we are going to get.

Suddenly it looks different right?

Edit: Apologies, my mistake.

When you adjust for VAT and other taxes, it is not that different at all.

E.g. £80 for the ultimate edition.

80 × 0.8 (taking off 20% VAT that UK pay) = 64

£64 converted into US dollars = $101.33

US pay $100 then an unpublished sales tax depending on the state which is usually not included on the advertised price.

Please do your maths properly before complaining about conversion rates.