Guild Wars 2

Astralporing.1957:

All? it is definitly harder than your average level 1 fractal. Unless you are comparing it to level 1 dredge, of course.

Thank you.

And let’s not forget this from the release notes: “Fractal selection is now based on the number of fractals the party has completed on the current run. Longer, more difficult fractals are less likely to be selected as the first fractal of the level.”

Doesn’t that alone imply that the difficulty should be toned down for the first fractal many players will ever run?

And it’s not just the difficulty — it’s the confusion. There’s really nothing that makes clear what you need to do.

I have a couple of level 80s and have done some of the other fractals at level 1.

Just to be clear, I have no problem with content being challenging. I just think that because this is story mode in a new release, it should be more forgiving.

Those who think it’s easy can simply run at a higher level, but those who can’t figure it out have no option to avoid it other than to not run fractals at all.

lordkrall.7241:

Qaelyn.7612:

Thus the title of the thread, which I still have yet to get an answer to.

I’ve played the other level 1 fractals, and this is not comparable in difficulty IMO.

Most of them were, at the start.
People complained about how hard the fractals were back a day after their release as well.

You have to keep in mind that everyone is new to this fractal, while it is likely that people had already done the other fractals when you teamed up with them and thus knew what to do (or could at least read up on what to do).

I understand. Sorry if I’m coming across as a bit frustrated.

My experience so far with LS stories has been that they introduce the content and are of a reasonable enough difficulty that I, as a newer player without a lot of meta knowledge, can handle with some effort. Compared to that standard, this is over the top.

Also, the game generally gives you more of a clue of what you need to do than is present in that instance.

If it were just me that would be one thing, but when three different groups of 5 can’t figure it out, that tells me there’s a problem.

All of the “haha it was so easy” people should also keep in mind that it’s not good for the game when people who usually don’t do an activity get a big turnoff when they try it for the first time. I’m seeing folks who have never tried fractals try this story instance, and it’s not likely any will ever set foot in there again because of the poor experience they are having.

That’s the bottom line.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Everyone who has ever done a Fractal has also done the level ones, and we all say it is… so what does that tell you?

It tells me that you have forgotten what it’s like to be a new player.

I’ve never played WoW, always figured it was too big and old for a new player to start with. And I liked the design of GW2 and the lack of sub fees.

I still do like it. But this update is disappointing.

lordkrall.7241:

It is exactly the same as the real Fractal, and thus it will have around the same difficulty as the other Fractals.

Thus the title of the thread, which I still have yet to get an answer to.

I’ve played the other level 1 fractals, and this is not comparable in difficulty IMO.

Kal Spiro.9745:

If you’re not getting it, that’s on you. It’s pretty simple.

What’s pretty simple is that this forum is filled with condescending, unhelpful people.

As I already said, I was in multiple groups and none of us was able to figure out how to proceed without dying multiple times.

The entire point of the thread is that STORY MODE should not be a high-difficulty instance that new players and those less skilled cannot complete.

And no, we didn’t ‘zerg’ the instance. In one case we spent a full hour trying to figure it out.

I have a master’s degree from a school whose name you’d recognize. Shall I post my resume so you kittens can stop implying that I’m an idiot?

Unbelievable.

Ayrilana.1396:

It was pretty simple. Just pay attention to your surroundings.

Your simplistic dismissal is ever so helpful. Thanks.

I’m sure all the corpses piling up in Lion’s Arch are because of the players and not the design of the instance.

For reference, I started playing the week the Hallowe’en event launched, and I was able to complete its story mode, solo, within a few days of starting playing. That was with horrible gear and little idea how to play.

Six weeks later, this one is wipe-city even with a group.

I’m not an uber player, but I’m not an idiot.

My experience with this update so far has been 2+ hours of time wasted in a story instance not one group I was in has been able to figure out and complete, with lots of logging out and back in to be ressed by kind folks in Lion’s Arch.

I’m not sure what number that translates to, but it’s pretty small.

You know, these “I found it not that hard so there’s nothing wrong with it” posts are completely unconstructive.

The point of story mode, I thought, was to serve as an introduction to new content. If new players in a PUG can’t complete it, it’s broken. Period. Doesn’t matter if people who’ve been running fractals every week for a year find it easy.

Excalibur.9748:

Qaelyn.7612:

Excalibur.9748:

It’s a decent chllenge.

What’s the highest level fractal you’ve completed?

my reward level is currently 7. Don’t remember highest, but it’s pretty pointless for me to do 10+ right now for me cuz I have 0 agony resist.

Okay, well my highest completed fractal level is 1.

You find it only moderately challenging because you are moderately experienced at fractals. I know there are people soloing it so presumably they find it easy.

But I would think that story mode would be based on a difficulty level appropriate for all players, since there’s no way to choose a difficulty setting. Based on my experiences in three different PUGs, this one is not.

Thus the point of the thread.

Not only does everyone die over and over again, but not one person in one group has even figured out what we’re supposed to do after the portals are closed. It’s not because all 13 people in these groups are stupid. It’s because the instance is poorly designed.

Excalibur.9748:

It’s a decent chllenge.

What’s the highest level fractal you’ve completed?

Because I have now wiped on it repeatedly trying just to get it done. Seems it’s only doable with either very experienced players or with people who have meta knowledge of how it works.

And no WP, which I cannot believe made it through even the most basic test process.

If I were a new player, this experience would convince me to either never enter a fractal again, or switch to a different game. I’m newish, and I know the fractals can be very cool, but this instance is remarkably poorly implemented. Probably the most disappointing thing I’ve seen since I started playing.

So this experiment is DOA because I never realized you can’t get PVT armor easily (not even yellow stuff). I’d have to blow all my karma or grind dungeons.. yuck.

Back to the old setup I guess.

Edit: Just realized there’s the WvW armor. I could probably get more badges and go for that, though no instant gratification there either.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

the current system is fine.

In your opinion it’s fine. In mine it’s not, or I wouldn’t have started the thread.

Thanks for the replies.

I’m tinkering with a 0/20/30/20/0 build right now.

Of course I just bought a bunch of pricey (for me) rabid armor for a different build and can’t really afford two more sets especially with traveler’s runes. But maybe I’ll start with yellow gear instead (since it’s cheap and I can break it down for globs if I decide not to use it) with centaur runes.

I could I guess just go PVT on the armor, since my primary intent is defense, and then swap PVT/berserker weapons and trinkets.

Not sure on the weapons yet. I found myself yesterday using GS and scepter/pistol, which seems like a strange combo but I found it works fairly well. I really like scepter #2 these days.. though I guess without boosting condition damage it may not be as good as sword #2.

I wonder about a defensive condition damage build instead.. I guess using dire gear with scepter, torch and staff? I guess that would be a Blackwater variation with more defense than offense — lower crits, less power, more vitality and healing.

Bah, so many choices.

I appreciate the response. Realize I could do that, though it’s suboptimal for a number of reasons. Fortunately it doesn’t seem to come up too too often.

It’s not just that the rewards are minor and that PvP is separate from the rest of the game. It’s that PvP is incredibly newbie-hostile in just about every way — the difficulty, the poor training/tutorial, and the attitudes of many players, etc.

It takes a special breed to be willing to subject themselves to getting pounded into the floor hundreds or thousands of times until you become even half-way competent. GW2 is mostly a casual game and people don’t want to deal with it. Even when dying has little consequence, it’s just not fun.

And I’m sorry to say that the stomping feature makes it worse. Much worse. It’s one thing to run out of HP and die. It’s quite worse to be forced to sit there mostly helpless watching some guy drive a stake through your heart.

A better way of matching players by skill level might help, but I realize that’s easier said than done.

Thanks for the reply!

You soloed the story fractal? Couldn’t even finish it with a group.

You have low condition damage and precision… but a staff. How do you do most of your damage?

There’s no WP and what’s worse, I’m sitting here dead over a minute, still ticking 6,021 burn damage per second (that’s not a typo) so none of my team can rez me.

I’m really surprised that this made it live. Most of GW2 IME is pretty clean bug-wise and this is really bad.

I’ve been in the solo queue today for the first time. Rank 4 and getting my butt kicked.

I’m confused.. since the game already knows our ranks, why does it take time for the system to “settle”? Is it ignoring rank for matchmaking purposes? Only looking at recent wins/losses?

… would be to remove shared mapchat between teams. While GW2 doesn’t have as much of the obnoxious and childish behavior that has kept me out of PvP in other games, there’s enough of it that I guarantee you a lot of people get turned off and don’t want to participate.

It doesn’t exist in WvW and I think it’s a great feature.

So I thought I had my build figured out but of course do not. I was intrigued by a mantra build someone posted, but it’s for PvP. I tried it out and it was pretty good, very tanky.

And I started thinking that maybe I should go with a tanky build for WvW as well. Because I hate dying. I know, people always die, and the penalty is minor in GW2. I still hate it. I’d rather die half as often even if it means the other guy also dies half as often.

I found some tank builds but comments in the threads suggested they were out of date. So I’m hoping you guys can tell me what’s current in this area.

My requirements for this build:
1. Drive other players crazy by staying alive despite their best efforts.
2. Not rely on gear I don’t have since I’m still kinda new.
3. Be able to convert it to a more aggressive build by swapping gear and traits (the roman numerals, not the trait lines) on the fly.

I’m assuming it will be something along the lines of 0/20/20/30/0 but am not sure what to do for exact traits, gear, weapons, sigils, food etc.

Thanks, this forum is great.

I was just tinkering with a mantra build against the NPC profession-bots in the Heart of the Mists using a 0/20/20/30/0 with a soldier’s amulet and runes of vampirism. Primarily focused on the scepter skills (with the scepter cooldown and condition damage boost) and the mantras. Holy cow, talk about a tank. I haven’t played a “real” tanky class like warrior but I felt like I could have taken on 4 of those guys (and I’m not a strong player).

Too bad the runeset is bugged, that would get old fast I’m sure.

Thanks. That’s interesting as it is close to what I was running before I came to this forum and started build-tinkering — mantra of pain with the heal on it. I just got tired of all the 2 3/4s periods where I couldn’t do much.

How do you feel your build compares to the one by Embolism? They’re quite different. I’m currently running a “convertible” Blackwater/Blackdevil 20/20/30/0/0 build.

The general consensus seems to be that it’s useless, so much so that I found myself avoiding it. But it works nicely in a PD+DD condition build, at least as far as my newbieness has allowed me to discover so far.

I also used a leveling build early on that it was quite nice for.

I ran with mantras all the time while leveling. The problem with them in PvP (of any type) is that they take too long to charge, and during that time I can’t do anything else except move. Am I using them incorrectly?

That sounds like a smart solution to me.

Note that a minimum increment doesn’t preclude bidding more than the minimum. If the current bid is 10g and the minimum increment is 5%, you could bid 10g50s or 10g70s or 20g13s if you want. Just not 10g00s01c.

If you were looking for the most efficient means possible to drop participation in WvW by say 90%, this would be it.

Not only do most people not want to risk items they’ve put in a lot of time and effort (and maybe money) to get, but that mechanism encourages the absolute worst behavior in online gamers. I would never set foot in WvW again if they did this.

At least the queue times would go down…

Behellagh.1468:

But as it’s been brought up multiple times what is the difference of being one upped by someone under/overcutting you by 1c or whatever this minimum bid price would be? Someone will still cut in front of you and someone in front of them and so on. All you are doing is replacing the jerk who says “and one” with a jerk who says “and X”. It’s no less annoying and now to compete against them you now have to adjust your price by a greater amount as well.

One difference is that the person saying “and X” deserves to be in front of me because he is actually offering a potential buyer or seller a better deal. The “and one” guy is just jumping ahead of me in line while effectively offering nothing to the other party.

And the other difference, as several have pointed out already, is that “and X” serves to actually close inefficiency gaps between buyers and sellers so that those actually getting and using the items get a better deal.

If I offer to buy an item for 10g, right now 10 people can overbid and the price could still be 10.001g. With a minimum of 5%, 10 people overbidding would move the price to at least 15g. And that means those who overbid have to actually think about whether they want to pay that much, not just mindlessly skip to the front of the line.

Ghostwolf.9863:

…use sheath weapon binding to fake out CnD…

Can someone please explain this? Thanks.

Oh I see the argument, but it seems to me that it applies to a lot of things. I mean, you can also blow a long-cooldown elite on a block or CC effect.

If you watch Yishis’s narrated videos, he watches for and compensates for these things to ensure his CnD is used to good effect. It’s an inherent part of the player skill involved in this type of build. I wish I could do it myself, but I can’t, and I see it as something to work towards.

Even though I think thieves are in general underpowered given the difficulty involved in playing them, and I’m not very good at them myself, it seems to me that CnD is sufficiently powerful in the right hands that buffing it would be unwarranted.

I’m weary of arguing against the incredibly poor economic reasoning in this thread, but this was a fair question asked nicely so it deserves a response.

Behellagh.1468:

Better question, why would you think it should be? After all everyone can set their own prices for buying or selling. What kind of player marketplace were you hoping for? FIFO would only work if the buy and sell prices were fixed ahead of time.

So please do describe a player trading scheme which you would find acceptable that incorporates a FIFO. I’m genuinely curious.

As RisingAshes said, we’re talking about two different things here, and I probably used the term inappropriately. I didn’t mean literally that whoever put the first bid in at a particular price should always get their order filled first. I’m fine with anyone who bids at a particular price level having an equal chance of buying or selling.

I simply meant that those who put the bid in last should not get fill priority over others who bid the same amount before them. The current system not only allows this but encourages it.

Or put another way: we don’t need FIFO, but we definitely are better off without the current LIFO.

Cool.

You know I’ve tried a hundred builds trying to figure out one that I can even be good enough to practice with and this one might finally be it. I had already mostly settled on PD+DD but was having trouble with the defense/offense split.

I made a PvP version to test out 1v1 and it looked promising. Of course I had to make a pile of changes and you can’t really get the condition damage high enough in there. But at least I don’t get immediately slaughtered like I usually do.

I do miss DoS and also the thing that gets you more energy on dodge rolls. All the effects on steal are great but it’s still only every 21.5s… not sure how much to give up for the steals.

If I do keep the 30 in trickery I’d probably have to add back the trait that stealths on steal. It’s just super handy for newbies like me as it’s one less thing to chain… steal and pistol #1.

Those looks really nice. Appreciate that time you took.

Do you not miss Descent of Shadows in WvW?

Hey babazhook, if you have a build editor link to show your traits (roman numerals) and so forth that would be cool. Sounds like an interesting build. Do you also just go straight P/D?

Same. I think it’s awesome that Arenanet has someone who plays this role (something I wouldn’t mind doing myself someday!) If he weighs in and says they want it this way, then I’m happy to drop it. But I’m sure not going to be bullied into silence by snark from the peanut gallery.

tolunart.2095:

Anet is not going to change their game to suit an individual’s preferences. They have millions of customers to consider.

Modifying the TP to require either reasonable bid increments or symmetric listing fees would dramatically improve its utility for the vast majority of players.

Change has to begin somewhere. The problem is that a forum like this will of necessity be tilted in its demographics towards people who exploit flaws in this sort of system, giving them an outsized voice in these matters.

That’s a strange question. Nike said I " don’t need additional protections beyond FIFO." And I said that we don’t have a true FIFO system now, and that wanting one is much of the point of the thread.

Nike.2631:

If undercutting by 1c is an “insignificant amount”, why didn’t you lower your original asking price by 2c?

No one‘s price point is sacred. You don’t need additional protections beyond FIFO.

Fortunately, FIFO is all I’m asking for. It doesn’t exist in this system.

DarkSpirit.7046:

Are you saying that ArenaNet never expected that we would ever use the TP to speculate and earn gold?

No, if I was saying that, I would have said that.

I am saying that while flipping is a natural consequence of many exchange mechanisms, in a game that is not what the exchanges are usually designed for. This is a pretty simple concept.

DarkSpirit.7046:

It is part of the design of the TP to enable that.

And I and others would like to see the TP become a more efficient means of trading, not flipping.

DarkSpirit.7046:

Like I have said many times, using your 5% increment is doomed to fail. 5% of 20c is exactly 1c, <sarcasm>big change here.</sarcasm>

This has been explained numerous times. A percentage based system using 5% wouldn’t change the minimum on a 20c item. But 1c is not 5% of 20g, it is 0.0005%. And that’s why minimum bids should scale based on the value of the item.

You know, like it works in pretty much every market.

DarkSpirit.7046:

Sure they raise unit cost by 1c, is that suppose to be a big deal?

It doesn’t raise the cost by 1c. It raises it by a lot more — or it makes the purchase much slower.

I decide I want to buy an item. The lowest offer is 27g. I put in a bid for 20g. A few minutes later someone using some cheesy software tool notices the price and puts in a new bid for 20.0001g. I don’t get my item. Next day I notice a pile more cheesy bids, so I put in a new bid for say 21g. Same thing happens again.

My only choices are to wait for days and days, sit at the TP all day and hope I get lucky, increase my bid to the point where the flippers can’t make a profit, or just cough up the 27g to buy the item listed. Regardless, the flippers have made the item cost a LOT more by their presence.

And of course, the higher-cost item I buy will likely be one that some flipper bought for 20.0004g or something.

It has to be this way, because all of the profit on any item flip comes indirectly from whoever initially found/made the item and whoever ends up actually using it. Flippers add no value whatsoever to this market. They are economic leeches.

DarkSpirit.7046:

Do not underestimate the number of speculators who use the TP, I wont be surprised if speculators make up as much as half or more of the players who use the TP regularly.

And if Arenanet intends the TP to be for that purpose, great. I thought it was to facilitate player trade, not to encourage electronic Carl Icahns.

DarkSpirit.7046:

Also remember that for EACH order it may only look like a negligible increment of 1c to you, but for a flipper who buys 250 orders, it is an increment of 2s50c each time he tries to outbid you, which is hardly negligible. Many of those who claim that the 1c increment is too negligible simply forgot about the Quantity field.

To quote a famous bandit: you’re kidding, right?

It’s about percentages. If the base item is 100g and your increment is 1c, yes, it is negligible, no matter what the quantity.

DarkSpirit.7046:

And furthermore, keeping the bids of flippers out of the TP buy orders is just going to raise inflation at the detriment of the economy. Instead of having their gold locked up in TP buy orders, they are now free to use them on something else.

That’s pretty hilarious.

What flippers actually do is raise costs for people who just want items to use.

Loading.4503:

try this for roaming, its what im using atm and its the best build ive made for myself.
I use pistol mainhand on one weapon slot, and dagger offhand on the other weapon slot so I don’t have to buy 2 weapon sets, but I can still use the sigil on swap that way if you didn’t know about that “trick”

So if you put P in one set main hand and D in the other off hand, you can use both and then swap as if you had two sets and sigils will still activate?

Finnway.2183:

• Crafting — Crafting materials are worth more than the items they create. It is cheaper to buy an item off the TP then to craft it yourself. The only reason to level crafting is for food/buffs, ascended gear, and/or role-playing.

Standard on pretty much every MMO. Only exception is when crafting it itself a tedious process, and the reason is that there’s a reward for making the items (XP).

Afya.5842:

If someone has that patience and time to always adjust the buy order, they should be awarded with that effort.

Funny, I thought the purpose of the TP was to allow players to get items they need and sell items they don’t want — not enable MMO “daytraders” to extract economic rents using third-party software tools.

I don’t really care if people want to do that, but the idea that the system should be designed around them — as this one is at present — is absurd.

Reply from Blackdevil’s thread…

Bunda.2691:

I’ve settled on a 20/20/30 Greatsword & Sword/Torch hybrid and love it. Zerker armor, Rabid trinkets w Zerker (Ruby) jewls. Zerker GS and Rabid Sword/Torch. It uses the standard Blackwater build but adds a ton of CC and power damage (and retains decent condition/bleed pressure). I find too that people are unused to it and unprepared for the damage spike of iZerker + blurred frenzy + mind wrack. Plus the GS gives good might stacking and chasing.

Also, use the 20 in Domination on the Torch, not the Greatsword. Condi clearing plus more invis is invaluable.

That looks interesting indeed. My setup makes it pretty easy to “mix and match” in this way. I’ll have to try that out, especially when condition pressure is heavy.

So while trying to come up with a build that would work I ended up tinkering with both Natsu Dragneel’s “Blackwater” PU build and the hybrid designed by Blackdevil. I wasn’t sure which would suit me best and I wanted to experiment with both to learn how they worked. Realizing they weren’t all that different I came up with this “convertible” build.

All the credit goes to Natsu and Blackdevil for actually developing the builds. This is just my way of combining them. I didn’t want to derail their threads.

The defensive build is the basic Blackwater: 20/20/30/0/0. I use rabid armor, weapons and trinkets (though my rings are currently carrion as rabid rings are pricey for a newbie.) I use Signet of Domination for the extra condition damage and the handy stun.

I plan to use this for more defensive situations such as scouting in WvW or moving overland through dangerous open areas in PvE. In WvW I sometimes swap Bountiful Interruption for Descent into Madness, a handy trait there..

To “put the top down”:

- I swap the rapid torch, scepter and staff for berserker GS, pistol and sword.
- I swap out the rabid/carrion trinkets for berserker versions.
- I change Cleansing Conflagration to either Empowered Illusions or Greatsword Training.
- I change Chaotic Dampening to Bountiful Interruption.
- I swap Signet of Domination for Mantra of Resolve.

This setup should be better for straight PvE and for zerg-running in WvW.

I also have a similar setup for PvP, which is even easier to swap around. I have mostly used it in duels so far and it’s fun to change it on the fly. Especially in rematches. Yesterday I fought one warrior with the offensive build and he finished me quickly; with the defensive version we couldn’t kill each other. (I have yet to find any mesmer build I can actually reliably kill good warriors with at my current low skill level.)

Anyway, I don’t have a great deal of experience so far but they seem promising. I’m looking forward to giving each of these setups a solid workout. Comments from you more experienced folks are of course most welcomed.

tolunart.2095:

Qaelyn.7612:

Using hyperbole and deliberately misrepresenting your opponent is not a way to win an argument.

Who’s arguing? That was a lesson. Someday you’ll learn.

Oh, so it was what, trolling? Er, thanks for the clarification.

tolunart.2095:

This is true. There is no point to discussing this because you are presenting a personal pet peeve as though it is a self-evident truth and expecting everyone to say “you’re right! I totally should be paying a lot more for everything on the TP because the system as it is now is not fair to you!”

Using hyperbole and deliberately misrepresenting your opponent is not a way to win an argument.

As it happens, I have the flexibility to check the TP often and combat the cheeseball overbidding. And I use the TP to earn gold fairly well given that I’m pretty new. This thread is not about me specifically, it’s about the health of the system as a whole.

tolunart.2095:

Imagine what would happen if you got your way. Say the minimum bid increment of an expensive item like a precursor is 5 gold. You grind and save and sell everything you can to gather like 800 gold to put an offer on the precursor of your choice… and fifteen seconds later someone topped you with 805 gold. So you go out into the world and grind champions and run dungeons and come back a couple hours later with another 5 gold… to find that your outbidder was also outbid, and there are offers at 810, 815, 820, 825… so to be “first in line” you need to offer 830 gold, and still face the possibility of being topped by the other five bidders because some people have a lot more than 830 gold on hand to play with.

If you only want to pay 800 gold for the item you can bid 800 for it just as you can do now. If others are willing to pay more, then you may have to wait a long time or you may never get the item at all, just as is the case now.

The difference is that right now, 1,000 people can overtop your bid and ensure you never get your item for 800g, despite them not actually paying more than you. You think there’s nothing wrong with that? I disagree.

Having barriers to “me first!” bidding also means that there will be far fewer people actually bidding higher than your price, because there is an actual cost to doing so. Right now, jumping in with an extra copper is free, and so it is abused.

In practice, in a system with barriers to cheesy overbidding like a minimum increment or a listing fee, the bid and ask prices will converge and the scenario you described wouldn’t happen often anyway.