Guild Wars 2

Funny ChapDev as I was going to ask where the condition removal was in that build because I didn’t see any. I guess he’s just so good he knows how much damage he can take and when to disengage etc.

I took the Yishis D/D build into PvP to duel with a friend just now, the one with the axe warrior. Ugh, it was awful. I was better at not immediately dying, at least most of the time. But he still thrashed me pretty soundly. The best I got was forcing him to heal.. that’s it.

I think if I met him in a dark alley (so to speak) I could probably harrass him and live long enough to get away. But I could never beat him. The problem is that when I move in to backstab, I often miss. Even if I hit, I don’t do a ton of damage, and then his damage utterly destroys me.

I realize warriors are OP in general and so this is something of a torture test for a thief (and a bad one at that). But how in general do you deal with the heavy melee output? In particular he was using axe #5 to obliterate me. Sure, I can shadowstep out, but axe #5 has a 20s cooldown and shadowstep has a 50s cooldown. So after a half minute or so I am usually with everything on cooldown and then I die.

I also had a theory that his build may not translate into PvP because of the lower damage figures. It seems to rely on quick bursts of heavy damage to take players down, with crits of several K. I can’t get that even with a berserker’s amulet because there are no stats on the other gear in PvP. Is this an accurate assessment?

You think that’s bad?

Ferraris are even more overpriced.

They shouldn’t be so greedy, it’s only a car. No fair!

Appreciate the explanations. I understand what’s going on. It seems like it would be easy for them to adjust this. Would be nice if someone from Anet would weigh in on this as it seems a shame that new players never get to finish it.

I was just in one where we only had the first wave down 30% after 10 minutes. When it’s going that slow everyone just gives up (as I did). There’s no way to achieve the necessary critical mass any more even at peak times.

Old content needs to be adjusted to reflect reduced interest.

Thanks.

I’m actually playing with Yishis’s build after all and starting to get used to it. I do want to do WvW after all, and it’s the style I like with lots of stealth and backstab.

It seems to work pretty nicely in PvE as well. I’ve shelved the pistols for now as trying to reconcile the power-based damage of DD with the condition-based of PD was driving me nuts. The bow seems nice in PvE as well.

I’m 75 now so going to rush to 80 and then work on the gear again…

messiah.1908:

p/d builds

beginner- 0,0,30,20,20
mediocre – 15,0,30,15,10 = add poison and weakness conditions to cover your bleed and torment
hardcore – 20,0,30,0,20 or 20,0,30,20,0 = venom cd trait and might on venom but less mobility
extreme – 30,0,30,10,0 or 30,0,30,0,10 = 1 more venom tick (or immobilize for 4 seconds ) but less initiative and mobility and hits hard with 2 venom

Thanks for the reply. What actual trait skills (roman numerals) do you use with these? Gear type? Second weapon set in addition to PD?

Thanks. I’ve tinkered with Yishis’s build. I think it’s too high-level for me, I can’t make good use of his trait and skill selections. Plus it’s DD+SB not DD+PD.

Azure Prower.8701:

Thief.

As a new player who’s so far played mesmer, thief and warrior, I can only say I hope that was some weak attempt at humor.

Of the three the warrior is by FAR the easiest to get into, understand and survive while playing.

Okay I think I’m making myself go in circles with trying too many things.

The condition build doesn’t work for me. I’m sure it’s effective but it doesn’t “feel like a thief” to me.. too much dodging and kiting. Even if I die all the time I’d rather use stealth and backstab.

I think I want to stick with DD as primary toolset. PD looks useful as a mobility supplement and for kiting mobs or hitting from a distance.

So assuming I want to go DD+PD, what traits do I want? For an aggressive build, but a bit of toughness or other defense would be nice.

What types of gear should I use? Approximately, don’t need every piece spelled out. Just go with berserker and hope for the best?

Thanks.

Thanks.

I was just tinkering with PD+DP and PD+DD. I like the symmetry of PD+DP, but I need to get the timing right, it’s somewhat unintuitive in that you want to use #3 in each case after switching sets, not before. I think I like PD+DD better, but that might be just because I am more familiar with DD.

PD seems condition-heavy. I bought a set of dire armor which seems to do decent damage but it still takes a long time for mobs to die. I was sort of following the Laela Blackbird build, adjusted a bit. I guess it’s just a defensive build in general?

Okay so here’s what I don’t get about DD+PD. PD’s auto-attack is ranged but its #3 is melee and then ranged. If I start in DD I can melee, then use PD get out of melee if things get too hot.. but then the opponent closes to melee and I can’t switch back to DD. If I start in PD, I don’t know how to make good use of Shadow Strike.

Thanks for the further replies.

I’ve decided part of the problem is that I’m experimenting in PvP, where I’m facing often very experienced players while I don’t even know what I’m doing in a general sense. So they demolish me in seconds while I fumble about trying to figure out what key to press.

I’m back in PvE now, to at least get a proper feel for the skills I’m going to use. I’m trying to play in PvE as if I were in WvW or PvP though, so I’ve shelved the shortbow and I’m trying to use stealth and pretend that the enemies are a lot tougher than they really are. When I can take down a high-level vet without being in any serious danger, I’ll go back to PvP…

I’ve been currently on DD+SD with currently a 30/30/0/0/0 build.. pretty aggressive. (I’m not level 80 yet.)

PopeUrban, got a particular build I could reference? Thanks.

I’m new to the game so I don’t have a ton of experience, but there are builds that work mostly based on damage done by illusions, and other builds where the damage is done in other ways with the illusions mostly a distraction. But they pretty much all use illusions — it’s what the class is about.

You’re not quite correct about all illusions being slow to get into combat and requiring flat ground and so forth. There are illusions that spawn right on top of enemies, and ones that do ranged damage.

My suggestion would be to do some PvPing against some mesmers, or even spectate some in one of the dueling arenas.

I just rewatched the most recent Yishis video and noticed a couple of things.

1. He never switched weapons once. It was D/D the whole time, and nearly everything he does is CnD, HS, steal and utilities. This is a good lesson for me because one of the ways I get messed up is constantly swapping weapons and then hitting the wrong buttons.

2. He knows every class inside-out. I think this is where my skill gap comes into play — I’ve only played a mesmer, thief and warrior and understand very little about the other 5 classes. Thief doesn’t seem to tolerate that level of ignorance as much as some other professions do.

The guy is a god. He should offer tutoring services for gold or something.

Switch, I don’t think the pending change to sword #2 will have a big impact on the build I’m using, at least according to the (very experienced) player who suggested it to me.

Thanks for all the replies. Some very good tips and ideas in there.

I realize that this is mostly going to be a matter of requiring a lot of practice. It’s just rather.. daunting. I keep swapping builds around hoping I can find something that will suit my playstyle, but I find the class incredibly unforgiving due to its combination of melee orientation, low health and lack of summons.

I did find through experimentation that I like S/D. The “step in step out” capability on sword #2 seems a powerful combination of offense and defense. My problem is figuring out what to actually do when I “step in”, and not taking so much damage that I “step out” and then am left wondering wht to do next.

I find in most fights that I’m almost immediately on the defensive, running around trying to keep from dying. Yet it seems a thief on the defensive is pretty much toast anyway.

Meh, I just tried some quick variation on the Blackbird build in PvP. I have no idea what I am doing, I end up just mashing buttons. Ech.

Marcos.3690:

No pvp content -> no one plays pvp -> no pvp content -> no one plays pvp ->

As a relatively new player (1 month) and very new PvPer (a few days) I will tell you that I do NOT think this is the real issue.

In PvP the other players are the content. That’s the point. It’s supposed to be something that doesn’t get stale because every player is different.

From my personal experience the issues are:

1. Class balance issues and abusive builds that don’t get fixed fast enough. I know there’s a patch coming up but it seems to be making very minor changes.

2. The entire PvP system is incredibly daunting and intimidating to a newbie. You get dumped in with little fanfare, and it’s very hard to get to a point where you aren’t getting your butt handed to you constantly. I’d imagine many people just find it too difficult and confusing and go back to PvE.

ETA: The only reason I am even giving PvP a chance is because of the even playing field. In fact, I’ve gamed for years and GW2 is the only place I’ve been willing to give PvP a chance, for that reason, and because most of the players seem nice (so I’m less likely to get abused.)

Tiered equipment is just even more of a barrier to entry, and would do the opposite of growing PvP.

Thanks for the replies.

I’ve read all the stickies here, watched Yishis’ videos, etc. etc.. so I’m not just being lazy. I just.. don’t get it. I watched part of the Laela Blackbird video and to me it might as well be a video of a surgeon doing a heart transplant.

The build though is interesting, it seems to be defensive in nature, which I haven’t tried before. Or at least, all that dire gear suggests so. I think dire gear comes from dungeons so that’s not something I can really do anyway, at least not yet.

naphack, I’ve tried that sort of build but I just can’t hit the right buttons in the right order fast enough. Always end up dead in under 30 seconds.

Maybe thief just isn’t for me. Which would be unfortunate as I love the class.

So I’ve tried several builds now trying to become at least mildly competent.. with little success. It’s not the builds, they are used by other players to pretty good success. It’s me.

Thief seems to be one of the classes where player skill has the most effect. And I’m inexperienced and not super-fast. I don’t have a good handle on how to use the skills in the right combos at the right times, so I end up being fairly ineffective, and I die quickly.

Anyone know if there are any good guides that include a build suitable for a newer player and also specific advice on how to use it? I don’t want to clone someone else’s build and playstyle entirely, but I need somewhere to start from or I’m just going to end up shelving this class.

Main interest eventually will be WvW roaming. I’m tinkering in PvP since it’s easy to change things around without having to buy a lot of new gear. Mostly been focusing on a D+D/SB combo since I’m somewhat familiar with it. I’ve tried D+P/D+D and D+P/P+D but they seem to require even more skill and timing.

Thanks!

Thanks skcamow. Now that’s a very different, interesting build. Might be a bit too complex for me but something to keep in the back pocket!

SHM.7628:

I’ll dismiss you right there. You have no idea what I have done and not done in this game.

I think you’re dismissing me (and others) because you simply don’t like what we have to say.

What I know of what you’ve done and not done is based on what you’ve said in this discussion, almost none of which has made a lick of sense.

The claim that you’ve “done everything” in getting to 80 is false because that simply is impossible given the game’s XP rates.

The claim that your build is “etched in stone” by the time you get to 80 is also factually false. Build changing in this game is easy-peasy, and pretty much nothing is “etched in stone” as you level except for your race and class.

You don’t want to do WvW or PvP, thus immediately removing huge parts of the game.

When asked what you actually do want, you give answers like wanting to be ‘geared and leveled by the time you hit 80’.

The problem isn’t with the game, the problem is you need to find one that better suits your interests. Developers not only cannot make happy people who play a game they don’t like, they shouldn’t try to make such people happy, as it will only ruin things for those who actually like the game.

If there were no randomness to this, then the same people currently going ‘RNG OMG!’ would grind out whatever they wanted in a month and then be back here complaining that they have nothing to do.

It’s just not possible to please people who decide to make games into jobs.

Just did a bit more dueling with the Blackwater build. Actually beat one warrior a couple of times, he must have also been new and didn’t seem to know how to deal with conditions. The second guy was also a warrior and we went round and round and round… must have been like 5 minutes because I turned him into a moa at least twice. In the end he caught me when my attention flagged but otherwise we could have gone in circles forever. For me, a (near) tie’s a win, I’m fairly pleased with that.

Very interesting build, different from what I’ve seen before. Thanks!

Would you be willing to do me a favor and explain what sorts of attack sequences you use, when you use key skills etc? This is what I have a lot of troubler with as a newbie.. I spec out a new build, and then I get out there and have no idea what to do. Anything, even brief, would be useful.

Same answer as applies to all these threads.

DON’T GRIND.

It’s a game, play it to have fun.

Shadowscamp, may I ask what your build is? I’m looking for something newbie-friendly for scouting/annoyance in WvW, with maybe some light PvE stuff as well. I doubt I’ll ever be able to actually kill anyone but not immediately dying would be nice.

I tried two different builds and got my butt kicked by a guy who’s been playing GW2 for 2 weeks and whose warrior is I think level 8.

It was so bad I’m considering just shelving the character for a few months as I doubt I could come up with any build where I could be decent at my current skill level. I wanted this char for sneaking around in WvW but unless there’s something with a much lower learning curve, well, I’m not ready.

After having just really tried my thief out in PvP for the first time, I’ll tell you what the thief meta is…

kitten ed good players.

I mean, I was absolutely useless even against a very new player on a warrior. He smoked me. And I know it is 99% because of my own lack of skill and experience.

When I see those videos of thieves in WvW killing 1v3s, I am now in awe.

Thanks for the replies!

Just had a chance to test variations of both Pyro’s build and the Blackwater in a couple of quick duels with a friend in PvP. He’s new so it’s not a real test but they were both at least basically effective and I was able to make them work fairly well. For Pyro’s build I tried scepter/sword+sword/pistol as well as scepter/pistol+GS and sword/pistol+GS.

I think the Blackwater may be a bit easier for me to handle. Problem there is rabid gear is hard to come by so it may have to wait.

Xenn I’ll try that out too thanks!

Clockwork Bard.3105:

But there’s always that one kid who knows the trick. He knows that skee-ball pays out way more tickets than anything else, if you’re good at it. And he’s good at it. So that’s all he plays for 6 hours straight, with only a quick break for pizza. By the end, he’s probably sick of skee-ball. But the tickets! He’s going home with pencil toppers of all four Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!

Yep. Except he’s not just sick of skee-ball, he goes on the Internet to tell everyone who will listen that Chuck E. Cheese is ‘boring’ because there’s ‘nothing to do but the same thing over and over again’.

Beware that the mesmer has a steep learning curve. Was my first char, started about a month ago, and I’m still trying to get a hang of it.

Thanks Soulseek.

Question: “Basically, if you find yourself in a dungeon remove the scepter and change the OH sword with a focus.” Change OH sword to focus and then remove the scepter for… ?

Do mean go sword/focus and sword/pistol?

SHM.7628:

What do i want? I’d like to be fully geared and leveled before I hit 80 and all the content is done. What’s the point of finishing everything first? That is like getting all warmed up before a nap.

Huh? How can you be fully leveled when you haven’t hit the level cap? And how can you wear gear when you haven’t reached its level yet? This makes no sense to me.

There is no possible way you have done everything the game has to offer even in the open areas by the time you hit 80 on a first character. GW2 gives XP for everything, so it simply cannot be done. Furthermore, the game is designed to let you go back to lower-level areas. And then there are dungeons, living story, WvW, PvP, etc.

So you haven’t finished everything, not even close. You’ve just decided you don’t want to do a huge percentage of what the game offers, which suggests that it isn’t that there’s a problem with the game but just that you’re not a good match for it.

Thanks for the replies.

Pyro, is your “Overpowered PvP Phantasm Build” still current, and how do feel it fares in PvE or WvW (the latter more roaming/defense/small-group rather than zerg)?

Pyro, if you have any suggestions on a GS/staff build I’d be grateful to see them.

“Don’t do it” is an acceptable answer.

SHM.7628:

Most of what you described there is just busy work. gear chasing just isn’t my thing. Some longterm goals are good, but legendary is not gonna happen fora player like me. WvW is a bad substitution for endgame. Probably why they left soon after.

So what is it you want? I honestly don’t get it. I’ve been playing for only a few weeks, mind you, but I’ve already found enough stuff here to keep me busy for at least a year of solid play, and that’s before all the stuff they add in.

You do realize that there is no possible way for any company to keep powergamers happy with PvE unless they have a massive dev staff that few would be willing to pay for? If you’re ignoring WvW and PvP then sure, you’re going to get bored. That’s how it is in all games.

Thanks for the reply!

The only exotics I have right now are a GS and staff and I do like them both so I guess I should try to make this work if I can. I’m just still really not sure how to do it. The learning curve is pretty high for this class.

Really no idea how I’d work GS into a blackwater build, heh.

In the bible Samson slaughters 1,000 Phillistines with the jawbone of an (animal that would probably be rendered in this forum as ‘kitten’ but really wasn’t). So here the equivalent would be buying an ML0 mace and wiping out an entire WvW zerg.

There’s your endgame. Get to work!

SHM.7628:

By 80 your build is pretty etched in stone.

Literally just yesterday I played four different builds on my mesmer trying to figure out which one I liked best. They were all very, very distinct in terms of skills and playstyle.

Maybe necro is different — haven’t played one yet — but I doubt it.

People get too hung up on concepts like ‘endgame’.

shimmerless.4560:

In PvP/WvW GS/Staff is phenomenally strong.

Okay, seems like some people say this and some say it’s not a good combo. I found one build for it but maybe it was just me but I wasn’t able to make it work too well.

More than open to build suggestions on GS/staff since it’s still my fave.. though scepter/pistol is starting to grow on me as well.

danbuter.2314:

Why do players think that just because they don’t like an aspect of a game that many others players do like, that anet should ban that activity?

Because what you do affects not only you.

And nobody suggested banning anything. The idea is to make the rewards match the risk and/or effort, to encourage a variety of activities and good use of the game’s resources.

Astralporing.1957:

Because the same would happen as if they nerfed the drops. People would simply migrate to the next best thing.

Then they can tackle that. And continue until people are doing a variety of things and not just pumping the heck out of whatever is easy.

Best game I ever played was the one where the first day I asked which class was most powerful and every response was “none is inherently better than the others, just play what you like”. That applies to activities as well.

Also just spent a bit of time tinkering in sPVP (just against mobs) with the Blackwater condition build and a variation on Pyro’s phantasm build using sword+pistol and GS. Both are quite intriguing and both mostly defensive, though of course quite different from each other.

I like the high condition damage in the blackwater build but scepter and torch are both rather foreign to me and I am having trouble figuring out when to use what. In the phantasm build I wondered if sword might be better to add a bit of offense since without condition damage buffs the scepter doesn’t do a great deal of damage. The pistol phantasm is pretty nice.

You know what.. it’s possible that I did get put in that area the very first time I entered the mists if I went there for some reason in my first few days and forgot about it.

Thereafter, I always enter the mists with her behind me, so I never noticed her again. She’s right next to me when I go in, but she’s off to the side and slightly behind. And what’s worse — she’s wearing gear similar to mine, and has no icon either over her head or on the map. I never moused over her and so I thought she was another player or just a mundane NPC of some sort.

Nope. I’ve only been playing a month. Never did that, and in my casual stroll through the Heart of the Mists I never even saw this NPC.

Any revamp of the tutorial system should start by fixing that! I’ll look for her. Thanks.

Hey thanks for the reply and giving me some hope for GS/staff.

I looked at your build. Sword/sword is very different from staff, and I’m quite inexperienced, so I’m not sure what changes you make when you go GS/staff. Seems the traits would need to be quite different.. also, isn’t the staff more reliant on condition damage to be effective?

Any chance you might consider spelling out how you make that “monster” GS/staff variation? In nice small words for us newbies.

Thanks.

Thanks for the reply.

I need to figure out first what sort of build I’m going with because I’m increasingly feeling like the gs/staff is too much of a mish-mash. Was just looking at your long build thread, wondering if it might be worth trying out. It doesn’t use either of the weapons I mentioned, but otherwise seems consistent with my general mesmer play style (stay away and let the phony me’s do the work!)

How feasible is it, realistically for a newer player to roam with a mesmer in WvW? Seems like I’ll just get nuked by nearly any decent player I come across.

Reesha: I do want to do some WvW. I’m just not sure how well I can at my current skill level. PvE is already starting to wear out its novelty.

Pyro,

Thanks from me as well for this thread and the other help you provide on the forum.

Is this build, as currently depicted in the first post, still current?

How well would it work in PvE or WvW as opposed to PvP?

Pyroatheist.9031:

Oh dear. Please tell me you didn’t get a full set of carrion.

I did. But it’s only yellow gear, and I’m a patient shopper, so I can salvage it and get back probably more value in materials than I paid for it. That was a deliberate choice since I knew I’d probably be having to try again a few times.

As for rabid gear, it seems to be a lot harder to get than carrion.

Anyway, I have to apologize for this thread, I’ve done a bad job of communicating what I’m after making it hard for you smart people to help me.

I did quite a bit of experimenting today and learned a few things.

First, I stink at PvP. I probably will stink at PvP for a very long time, a combination of being new to the game, new to PvPing, older (slower reflexes) and not great under pressure.

Second, changing builds in PvP is trivially simple! So I’m not going to worry about build there, I can try things out on the fly.

So, ignoring PvP that leaves PvE and WvW. I’d like to do both, but realistically, I am not sure how well I can play a mesmer in WvW. I don’t like zerging, and mesmer doesn’t seem like an ideal roaming class for a new player. Maybe in a year when I know everything inside-out, but not now.

So that leaves PvE with occasional WvW visits maybe.

My attempt to make a build combining staff and GS, my two favorite weapons, may not work out. I know they are rather different weapons but I had seen some “general purpose” builds that seemed like they’d work okay. And to be honest, it’s not bad. It just doesn’t seem that great either. They are both good weapons, but there’s not a lot of synergy.

It’s mostly phantasm-oriented, and quite defensive, oriented largely towards buffing illusions and giving me more health and healing. But it seems GW2 really is a case of the best defense being a good offense, which may be part of my problem.

So I’m not really sure what to do now. I don’t really want to run a cookie-cutter build someone else made. Any suggestions on how to make a go of GS/staff? Or should I switch to something else? I’d be game to try something like Blackwater. I’m not a big fan of standing in melee using a sword on my mesmer.

Anyway, advice appreciated. For reference I’m currently 20 (V+X) / 20 (II + X) / 10 (V) / 20 (IV + X) / 0.

Before I even read the thread, as a brand new PvPer myself I’ll tell you that you need to start by making clear that there even is a tutorial! I went into the mists and when the guy showed me the map and started yammering I assumed it was the same as the map guys in PvE and just closed it. I then started trying to figure out gear and arenas and stuff and it was rather confusing.

The guy doesn’t even mention a tutorial. And there’s not much on the map to look at.

It was quite confusing figuring out why my gear had no stats, etc.

ETA: Okay, walked the island, found some sparring NPCs but nothing resembling a tutorial. You guys must be talking about something else.

Thanks for the replies.

I decided to switch over to carrion gear. It’s working fairly well in PvE, haven’t played with it in PvP yet. I also did respec to 20/20/10/20 to get Debilitating Dissipation. It’s a purely ranged build with tons of clones flying around.

The problem isn’t any particular activity or means of making gold. The problem is rewarding rote repetition.

Each champion should only give a bag the first time it is killed per day. That’s how a lot of other things work, and it makes a lot of sense.