Guild Wars 2

if you stand on his ring in the open, he will move to be able to use those attacks. if you wall him, he can’t move, and therefore can’t use the attacks.

One type of exploit has previously been defined as using terrain to disable a boss’ attacks. He can not use his most powerful attacks in phase 3 if you push him to the wall. Therefore, walling him at all (which is required for the WoRsploit) is an exploit.

edit: also, I don’t mind the jp like stuff, as long as its used just to explore. I don’t like it when its used to skip.

Last week, I was about to start, for the first time, banning a profession from my runs. Between wanting to exploit Lupi (despite my lfg discription), and the constant throwing light fields on me, I was getting real fed up with guardians. 3 days ago, I had a guard join my Arah p3 party (we were waiting at mage crusher). He was obviously not at all experienced (which I’m ok with, just at least try to follow directions) and failed the skip after Hunter/Crusher. I went back to stealth him through. What happens: light field just before my smoke bomb goes off, so we get retal stacks instead of stealth. I tell him no light field and that he now has to wait 30 sec for my cooldowns. I go to blast stealth again, and sure enough another light field. I was ready this time though and delayed timed party of my blasting. I tell him once again “no light field” just before blasting my stealth before his skill is off cooldown.
The next day however, my faith in guards was restored. I had 3 guards join my run (Arah p1, I think). Once I saw that, I negative thoughts about how the run would go immediately filled my head. Everything was going smoothly, light fields were mostly kept off me, reflects were used properly, etc. However, when we got to Lupi, I just couldn’t help but think at least one of them would attempt to WoRsploit, so I made sure to get in first. They were ready before Lupi got to his feet though. I was pleasantly surprised that the fight went well and they respected my post by keeping Lupi off the wall. I let them know at the end of the path that they restored my faith in guards.

Next time I got on… I was fooled by a ranger. While waiting on the party (arah p2), they were discussing (necro and ranger) weather each though their class was good. I made a comment “you’re not running bearbow, so thats a good sign” (he had a sword and drake pet). He asked what was a bearbow. I explained and some reason why they aren’t liked in most parties. When we get to abom… the first thing I notice – a bear. I turn around, and sure enough, he has a bow out too. You can guess how the rest of the path went (post was “p2, no exploits, melee lupi off wall”), but I’ll say this, most of the party was ranging lupi.

Zenith.7301:

Urban Fractal, sometimes the warband won’t even spawn. If the party wipes and respawns the warband will not be with them, and minutes later when you’re about to mop up the boss room out of the trash packs, they suddenly all appear.

Then there’s the bug in Thaumanova where you become completely invisible as a character. Can’t even see your weapon so you have to use spell effects to gauge your relative position on the floor the boss is in.

The Thaumanova bug seems to be related to the heat room. Every time I do the heat room, I go invisible afterwards. It seems to be fixable by re-entering the heat room.

I believe the alphard reset glitch is caused by the entire party getting OOC – most likely when she drops a bomb just before teleporting and everyone dodges back. I’ve gotten OOC without moving when she teleports sometimes too. It should be avoidable by making sure to not be OOC for more than 2 seconds – easily done by fighting near the boxes instead of the normal PUG spot.

Typed on the phone so autocorrect might’ve screwed something up.

•warriors that charge ahead, not thinking of the rest of the group, leaving back aggro for everyone else to deal with, especially after I ping a stealth skill.
•guards that insist on keeping a 100% light field uptime. I swear, some of them seem to make sure to put down a light field as soon as they see big ol bomb (before my fire bomb goes off). Idk what they’re running, but I’m not about to eat one of Lupi’s uppercuts to do a tiny bit of retal damage to him.

I just tested one of the elite hunters. Its one stack, and not perma (it’s skill that applies it still has the same short cd though), so you can now knock him around. Just for fun I did engi – pistol/shield, pbr, toolkit, bomb kit, supply crate.

Langrim.2489:

The biggest change is that Lupi’s bubble attack is no longer summoned on the target – it does not track the target unless outside of a set minimum range (approx the safe zone range in p2 where there is no swipe and you do not get hit by the auto). Before, you would get bubbled if you were not fast enough getting back under him from the rising up AOE. Now it will not trap you at all, it will completely miss or the outer edge will nick you once. There is almost no threat of being bubbled now. You can even trigger it by stepping away from him and the bubble will land exactly at that min distance without trapping you.
I know not if this is intended or perhaps a result of the atk/cleave changes of some atks, either way it certainly feels very unsatisfying as it trivializes threat in the fight but also makes pushing lupi around a non-issue.
Unrelated to this I also noticed the guard sword 3rd auto cone is a bit larger so it will reliably hit when you are forced to make tighter circles max melee kiting. It still suffers at the tip of the cone where not all hits may land.

Yeah, I noticed that yesterday too, when I accidentally Overcharged Shot myself into the dome (I normally use it to escape the dome when people push Lupi and cause him to bubble me). If they’re working on Lupi, I hope they fixed the WoRsploit. Does anyone know if they did? I don’t allow it in my groups (I post for off wall melee).

Did they modify Lupi’s auto-attack in today’s patch? I seem to be getting hit by it even in melee range (though it is pug groups, so its possible that somebody was at just the right spot for me to get the splash damage from it). I got hit at least 3 times by it in one group, and at least once in another. Probably more than that, but wasn’t watching my health the whole time.

The game client is 32 bit, so the OS makes no difference, and it appears he has a 64 bit OS anyway. Because A net won’t release a 64 bit client, you have to lower your settings in zerg events. Set the model limit and quality to medium. You can change it back when you get away from the zerg.

Edit: he does have a 32 bit OS. Upgrading can help, but it’s still limited to 3.7GB. Maybe if enough people beg Anet for 64 bit, they’ll release it (in a few years probably)

I’m against exploits. I mostly create my own lfg now that says melee lupi off wall no exploits. When I join other parties, I avoid joining ones with guards or mesmers, or join one with a similar post to mine. Personally, I really don’t like walling him at all, as it makes phase 3 too easy. As for a fix, I’d like them to make it so he shadowsteps to the middle of the room just before using his AOE, maybe add shadowstep to phase 3 also.

Many.8419:

whats the problem to push buttons once in a while to prevent being kicked out?
leechers aren’t literally afk, they are by the comps, doing other stuff and alt tabbing for rewards

I got rewards many times in this game for doing nothing. The best laughs were for events I didnt even know I was participating. This is the problem.

I haven’t used the siege in a long time, but from what i remember, the timer for being kick off siege is very small (like 10 seconds), so you pretty much cannot be afk. They’d have to sit there pressing the attack button constantly. Doing that is still being very lazy (and i agree that rewards need to be reworked), but at least that is likely doing some good damage to a group of enemies. They only way around this is to bot, which should result in a perma-ban.

they would need to activate a skill on the siege device or it kicks them off it allowing them to be debuffed. siege devices shouldn’t allow auto attack to be set (not sure if it currently does).

Many.8419:

Rainmaker.7594:

I think SW needs a debuff similar to the hot-foot debuff from the volcanic fractal (applies burning if you stop moving), but with a few changes – make it a combination of poison and burning so healing is less effective and change it so it is a longer delay before the debuff is applied (maybe 5 seconds of not moving). This debuff should apply when events are active and only within the area of the events (including anywhere a npc might revive you).

and again legit players will be annoyed with constant ticks of dps

those solutions while sound cool can punish legit players which makes them bad

as long as they move at least once every 5 seconds (or could be longer before the debuff applies), it doesn’t tick damage on you and shouldn’t prevent you from getting ooc. also, i think operating one of the siege devices should prevent you from getting this debuff (siege items already kick you off them if you don’t actually make use of them). Also, the debuff wouldn’t apply between events (this way you can sort you inventory out while at least 3 people will do the rock gathering thing).

I think SW needs a debuff similar to the hot-foot debuff from the volcanic fractal (applies burning if you stop moving), but with a few changes – make it a combination of poison and burning so healing is less effective and change it so it is a longer delay before the debuff is applied (maybe 5 seconds of not moving). This debuff should apply when events are active and only within the area of the events (including anywhere a npc might revive you).

Most pre-built computers (pretty much all laptops) include alot of crapware. I recommend uninstalling or disabling stuff you don’t need/want for starters. The most RAM GW2 can use is 3.7GB (because its 32-bit) and it really only uses that on higher settings in zerg events. On low settings, 4GB RAM is enough (although I recommend getting 8GB for overall system performance). If you’re in a secure environment, you can disable your anti-virus while playing the game (just remember to re-enable before browsing the web). The biggest hit to fps in my experience is reflections, so this is the first option to disable if its not already. Next is reducing the number of player models on screen. Try double checking those settings and see if it helps, but most likely the problem is other software installed on you laptop.

I didn’t read all the posts above me, but here is my idea:
Add a debuff similar to the hotfoot debuff from volcanic fractal boss. This debuff would apply to all players in the areas of the events in Silverwastes. It should only apply when the events are active (so no debuff between defend events). Dead players should have no impact on event scaling. This would clean up the bad afk players, including exploiting rangers, while its not much of a big deal to people afk for legit reasons because armor repair is free.

Idk why nobody responded to this yet, but…
at the top of the chat window are tabs. change your tab or create a new one. you can also click the little arrow on each tab to choose what chat channels you want to show up.

I just leave the group immediately if somebody tries to do this, because they’ll likely want to WoRsploit Lupi too.

Anyway, I think this can be fixed by ANet fixing the position of that bone wall. based on the size, it looks like it should be closer to Belka, near the post where the risen reset when you hide behind it. The other bosses with bone walls have the walls where you can’t just run around it to break it.

What do you mean insta-orb? I’ve always been able to see her launch her orb. Sometimes it goes up so high that you might’ve forgotten about it by time it lands on you though. But I’ve never had it just randomly and instantly pop right on me.

And I also view this as an exploit that shouldn’t be allowed. Some want to pass it off as just disabling her teleport, but by doing that it allows easy positioning to avoid being knocked into the barrels – a major part of the fight.

Unless something changed and I missed it, warrior is not top tier dps. It’s just the easiest class to play. Meta engineer (3 kit) is the next best dps after ele and thief.

Orb of light can be solo’d with any gear that doesn’t provide vitality. Healing power from cleric’s will help a little, but isn’t necessary – save some bag slots and do it naked if necessary. I created the engi orb of light solo, if you have any questions about it, let me know: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNpSM-ju4Gs

Between blasting stealth, and elixir s, you can get through any run easy without harpy feathers. Just remember that engi has a 12 second cap on its stealth. For example, the spider room or the final skip in p2, blast healing and thumper turrets in your smoke field, wait until the icon starts flashing before tossing elixir s (if you toss it when there is more than 7 seconds remaining, you lose some of your stealth time to the 12 second max).

Its likely a memory limit error. GW2 is, unfortunately, a 32-bit program and is limited to ~3.7GB RAM usage. To verify this check your ArenaNet log file in your documents folder. If it says OOM near the top of each error section, this is the reason(OOM = out of memory). This usually occurs when there are alot of character models on the screen at high graphics settings. Currently, the only way around it is to lower your settings (enable culling) when doing zerg events.
The next most likely reason is a corrupted file. Check the log file. If it hints at this, you’ll need to run the repair command when launching GW2.
The last reason I can think of is a hardware error. Most likely your HDD (if not using a SSD) or RAM. There are tools available to check both. I also recommend checking those even if its not the cause, because its best to find out about it while its still under warranty.

loseridoit.2756:

opengl is not an superior option. Microsoft has invested so much time and money into direct x that it is currently better than opengl.

http://www.alexstjohn.com/WP/2014/03/25/opengl-vs-direct3d-yawn/

if you looking around articles about the current state of opengl. It is bad. A much better target is opengl next, mantle, and direct dx 12 since there is much less overhead and I think anet devs can pick it much more esaily than direct x 11

from the website you listed:

the company I founded, WildTangent Inc.

I’ll believe all the other sites, which state that OpenGL is typically 1.3x faster code that DirectX, before I listen to the founder of a spyware company (WildTangent). It is also stated in various places that OpenGL is easier to code. IdSoftware (now owned by Bethesda) still used OpenGL in RAGE and it looked great (OpenGL had megatextures before DirectX).

Gazareth.7230:

Celestina.2894:

and is exactly what some vets might want and need to hear first before returning.

That’s exactly why I’m here. I haven’t played the game in over two years because of the performance problems I was having. I heard about the expansion yesterday, and it sounds really cool! If they add on top of that an upgrade to DX12, I will be back on my necromancer in a heartbeat.

They actually did increase performance a bit over the past 2 years. The patch during the marionette time-period doubled my zerg fps in that event on an AMD FX-8150 (OC to 4.0). There were other smaller performance increases a few times too.

Visiroth.5914:

Rainmaker.7594:

Also, it’s not so much a matter of the hardware as it is the software. Microsoft won’t release newer versions of DX on older OS, so DX12 that someone mentioned is a very bad idea because it won’t work on Win7. OpenGL and 64-bit isn’t controlled by MS.

Microsoft is offering win10 & DX12 as a free upgrade to win7 users so that point is moot.

I didn’t realize that, thanks for the info. I might give Win10 a try on my laptop first, because they’re still shooting for one OS for all devices, which worries me that there will still be touch screen optimized garbage on it (I’ve read that they are fixing current complaints about Win8, but they might put new annoyances in. Its good that they are asking the community for their input this time though).
But, as lordkrall said, not everyone will be willing or able to upgrade. I still think OpenGL is a superior option, if they were going to change the engine to that extent. OpenGL can offer everything DirectX can, in addition to more platforms being supported.
That being said, can’t it be agreed that 64-bit is more important than rendering format, since the current 32-bit actually causes crashes, whereas DirectX/OpenGL upgrades are just about performance/appearance.

Terrahero.9358:

I understand dx9 let’s older hardware run the game as this older stuff doesn’t support dx11 or something. But dx9 is older than Guild Wars, by more than two years in fact. Even dx11 is already five years old.

But, what is the benefit of going DX11? Being newer isn’t a direct benefit. GW2 looks better than some DX11 games. Also, it’s not so much a matter of the hardware as it is the software. Microsoft won’t release newer versions of DX on older OS, so DX12 that someone mentioned is a very bad idea because it won’t work on Win7. OpenGL and 64-bit isn’t controlled by MS.

They are able to implement everything they want to so far in DX9. What is the benefit of spending resources on DX11? It doesn’t offer any support for platforms that DX9 doesn’t (Linux). If they were going to change the engine code to this extent, I’d rather have them make it OpenGL. It has better compatibility (all it needs is driver support, rather than a OS upgrade), and will allow them to release on more operating systems, increasing their user base.
Really though, the only major change in the client code that I see as necessary is an upgrade to 64-bit, as the current limits 32-bit causes crashes. I’d even be willing to spend more for 64-bit.

I’m looking forward to the expansion, but I am wondering if there is any chance that it will release as a 64-bit client (so we can stop getting OOM errors). I’d be willing to pay an extra $20 on top of the list price for 64-bit. Actually, if you release 64-bit, I’ll buy the collector’s edition (if available), up to $250.

Now, I know somebody is bound to bring DirectX into this, but personally, I’m fine with DX9, since they seem to do fine with just DX9. However, if they were going to change the programming that much, I’d prefer OpenGL over any DirectX upgrade (Linux support ).

I recently upgraded, and I’m very disappointed with my Gigabyte board. The relevant reason for posting here about it is to warn you that their fan controller is garbage. If you get Gigabyte, make sure to get only PWM fans or it will be loud because current Gigabyte boards don’t support any control for non-PWM fans (the other reason I don’t like my Gigabyte board is because of the poor layout – bad location for SATA connectors, can’t fit a large CPU HSF because they first PCI-E x16 slot is too close). ASUS has always been great for me. I have been wanting to give MSI a try too. Previously its been that I’d only buy ASUS, Gigabyte, and MSI, now its just ASUS and MSI.

As far as your build goes, it is much better than your previous setup, as others have said. If possible, depending on your knowledge, I’d recommend trying to overclock that CPU a bit.

Note: I did not read every post before mine, so somebody may have already said this.

It is entirely possible to light the vines on fire without paying attention to the shield or using stability (though some sort of speed boost is helpful – I used the power shoes engi trait). Its just a matter of timing and positioning. The boss does 2 paw slams in a row. You want the second one to not be covering your targeted fire spot. As soon as the red circle appears, walk out of it and light the fire. By starting the ignition while the second red circle is up, you’ll have enough time to light it, with a couple seconds to spare. Of course, also kill the little shadow demon things as soon as you spot it (get the holy fire buff to kill it).

I’ve actually been enjoying most of the boss fights ANet has been putting out this season. Its nice to have some actual mechanics besides just spamming a dps rotation.

hmm… I don’t stay in rifle long enough to notice, but fire bomb has been misbehaving alot over the last couple weeks. I activate it, but then it goes on the short cd, like I canceled it. Before the last couple weeks, I’ve never noticed it cancel (didn’t think it was possible outside of dodging in the middle of the activation).

can’t do that, but you can bind it to a mouse button.

hellchamp.5412:

what kind of crash do you have black screen or the NVidia driver crash ?

The crash, if the same as mine, is an over memory limit crash. It usually results in a crash to desktop with a send error report to ANet screen popping up. But this last time, it completely froze (background music still played), could not Alt+F4 or Alt+Tab, I had to open task manager and kill the process. From there I saw that it was at 3.7 GB memory usage. This is caused by the game being 32-bit, as such programs are limited to between 3.4 to 4GB, depending on the nature of the program (in this case limited to 3.7GB). Making the game 64-bit would solve this problem (technical memory limit would be in exobytes, but the OS/motherboard would limit this to around 32-64GB currently).

Sariel V.7024:

oxtred.7658:

Bearbow the hobbit?

Bearbow Baggins. BRILLIANT

love it. if i ever create a ranger, this is what I’ll try to name him. it’s probably taken though. I tried variations of EZ Mode for my warrior’s name, but they were all taken too

Novuake.2691:

Rainmaker.7594:

I just wanted to add my test results (just a quick test, didn’t try different settings, or run around the whole event area). I was defending north turrets. All settings on max (except the cheap AA, because I supersample instead) @ 2560×1600. The lowest I saw was 19 fps looking directly at the zerg, zoomed out, from north turret area (ran a little closer, didn’t make a difference). I also didn’t get very far into the fight before the game crashed from hitting the 3.7GB memory limit (because its 32-bit).

Relevant specs:
CPU: Intel Core i7-4790k (stock settings = 4.3 GHz constant on my mobo)
GPU: ASUS AMD Radeon HD7970
RAM: 16GB, 1866MHz, CL 8-9-9

Seems about right, maybe a little on the low side, but that could just be the RAM limitation. GET 64BIT NOW! :P

Yeah, I really wish they would release a 64-bit version of GW2. While I usually stick to dungeons anyway, I can’t really do zerg bosses if I wanted to because I have a high chance of hitting the memory limit. I know I could just lower the game settings, but I didn’t spend as much as I did to build this PC to play on low settings (and I’m just too lazy to change the settings before and after events ).

I just wanted to add my test results (just a quick test, didn’t try different settings, or run around the whole event area). I was defending north turrets. All settings on max (except the cheap AA, because I supersample instead) @ 2560×1600. The lowest I saw was 19 fps looking directly at the zerg, zoomed out, from north turret area (ran a little closer, didn’t make a difference). I also didn’t get very far into the fight before the game crashed from hitting the 3.7GB memory limit (because its 32-bit).

Relevant specs:
CPU: Intel Core i7-4790k (stock settings = 4.3 GHz constant on my mobo)
GPU: ASUS AMD Radeon HD7970
RAM: 16GB, 1866MHz, CL 8-9-9

Thanks for the compliment. I tried shield4 once awhile ago, but from what I remember, it didn’t seem to block any of the damage (I died to the phase 2 AOE). I was incapable of even conceiving soloing Lupi back then though, and with the skill changes, who knows. The only thing I don’t like about shield is the long cooldowns. Its worth a try though.
My sigils were air and battle. Invigorating speed + infused precision = 100% vigor uptime. But, if you use energy sigil, you can use some more dps traits.
Good luck if you decide to solo Lupi off wall.
Oh yeah, one other note that you might wanna know… if you get bubbled in phase 3, rifle4 can blow you out of it. It takes a little practice to effectively pull off though.

interesting… can anyone else confirm if this works for them (also, does it make a difference if you already have full admin access – UAC disabled)

robertul.3679:

Why you waste 6 trait points and 1 utility slot for some extra defense in phase2 is too hard to comprehend for me. But that’s totally off topic.
On topic: grenades need buffs. Like some torment, burn.

actually, its for phase 2 and 3. reflecting rapid fire (even though turrets can’t crit) does alot of damage, and is more interesting than cheesing the fight by pushing him into the wall so he can’t use it.
I’m all for giving grenades more condis, in exchange for the huge burst damage from 2&4 (grenade barrage is fine though). Not saying get rid of the direct damage all together, but for extra condi output (and extra damage from modified ammo), reduce the burst somewhat.

SSD vs HDD only affects loading times. It will not give you any extra fps (unless if you’re using some ancient IDE HDD, then maybe in certain situations). There will always be a fps drop in zergs. Also, this game is more CPU bound than GPU bound, which is why resolution seems to have very little impact on fps (I went from 1920×1200 to 2560×1600 and only lost maybe 2 fps on a HD7970 with max settings). Of course, upgrading the GPU 2 generations ahead will still offer a benefit. Check some review/test sites to get an idea of how much of an upgrade the 4790k will offer. For me, I upgraded from an FX-8150@4GHz to the i7-4790k (currently stock speed), and there was big improvements in some areas (such as the home instance), mild increases in dungeons and zergs, but little difference in alot of other areas.

Jerus.4350:

I was under the impression that when the math was done that grenade kit was higher personal dps potential than bombkit, it was only the skill1’s where bombkit outdamages grenadekit. So when doing full rotations grenades win out.

And, I think it’s a good point mentioning the travel time and spread at longer ranges, yes it’s a range weapon, that is lower damage at range, but in melee it’s nice. Sounds about right.

The idea of Melee > Range is based around the idea that there should be a risk v reward. If you are at less risk you get less reward, and that is the case here in that when you back to range (having less risk) your damage goes down (less reward) is it not?

I see your point, and you’re right – I mostly just hate using grenades with their current design. But, don’t you agree, that with the whole risk vs reward thing, bombs and toolkit should do a little more damage than grenades (since grenades have a range option, even it its only good at <500 range), taking everything into account (all that extra bleed and burst damage from grenades)? Rather than nerfing grenades, how about buffing bombs and toolkit (maybe toolkit, only if they ever decide to separate skills in PvE from PvP/WvW, because people said it would be overpowered). Either way, I think a grenade launcher trait would be cool (at a lower trait tier though). Maybe make grenades default to 3 grenades so the current trait isn’t needed.

Jerus.4350:

How are you figuring Air/Fire win out over Force?

Sigil of Air is basically another attack (coefficient of 1.1) every 3 seconds. Force is 5% boost. Rough math would say you would need to attack 20 times in 3 seconds for force to be better (20×5=100=1 additional attacks worth of damage), but of course you need to take into account that air is actually procing about every 4.5 seconds, and force is also boosting your burst skills, so I’d estimate you’d actually need to do about 15-18 attacks in 4.5 seconds for force to be better, so air is only marginally better, and only against single targets. Its worth it to me, because the main focus of my build is killing bosses. For trash mobs, yeah force is much better. But, I don’t have the time nor desire to do the full math. Others have stated the same thing before me in other posts, so I’m not stating anything new about sigils and don’t need to defend my sigil choice any further.

robertul.3679

blah 22min lupicus solo blah blah

new lupi video uploading now. Got my sub 10 min kill. I’m happy with it. Its not a speed kill (wasn’t going for/not going to go for a speed kill), but its good enough for me. It is uploading now. Its still using fortified turrets and off wall, but with bombs instead of rocket boots, and traits changed appropriately. I’ll update this post with a link when I get home from work later tonight.

update: video dedicated to robertul for his kind words of encouragement regarding my first solo. (actually this has been on my list of thing to do, but probably would’ve been longer before I did it, if not for his mocking)
http://youtu.be/nd7ZQJ7aPlc

robertul.3679:

Jerus.4350:

This whole thread just seems like “I don’t like to use grenades but I realize they’re the best so I want it changed so I don’t feel guilty about not using grenades”.

He just wants the 22min lupicus solo(LOL) with toolkit auto to be faster.

that was my first full lupi solo. I am in full ascended assassin’s gear now, and one of my current goals is to beat lupi in under 10 min (off wall, still using the fortified turrets though; modified with bombs instead of rocket boots though, traits too). I don’t care too much about speed kills, so will be happy with 10 min kill. Just as I am happy having killed hunter/crusher legit in just over 5 min.

Engineer is a complex class indeed. Not many players are good enough to aim grenades or understand that the max dps rotation doesn’t involve only grenades but also blunderbuss,jump shot, flame blast, acid bomb, napalm. Grenade hits are skill shots and well..not everybody has them skills to land them shots.
Some just want to set the bomb/toolkit to auto and afk it away in their celestial gear with fortified turret traits.

I very well understand that dps requires skill rotations, which is part of the reason why I decided to go with strength runes and battle sigil. Alot of people think that force is a great sigil, but fact is that air is better against single targets (bosses) and fire is better against groups of enemies; and yes the damage bonus from sigil of strength is worse than air against single targets.

But for us who not only don’t struggle with basic pve content but also pvp for aqua breathers and whatnot..nerfing grenades would hurt the engineer class a lot. It’s pretty obvious that engineers lack the sustain to be in melee all the time and also the chasing capabilities if their target decides to run away.
Don’t nerf grenades because people are too lazy to press a few buttons. This kills the class.

Thats just another reason that they should separate the skill balance between PvE and PvP/WvW. We also have other range options that can work along side weakened grenades (which is supposed to be all about condi’s anyway, isn’t it?)

The point of the thread is that the grenadier trait is massively overpowered compared to traits for any other weapon (does any other class get a 50% damage boost from one trait?) and that melee weapons should do more damage than ranged weapons; in the very least, toolkit needs a major boost. bombs would do more damage compared to grenades if they always attacked at the speed they do under water (0.5 sec, which is what the tooltip says, they currently hit at every 0.84 sec, according to wiki).

I just got another possible idea. Based on grenades being harder to play (that is only true as a ranged weapon, there is no extra skill involved for using them in melee). Keep most of their damage output, but put a minimum range on them – that means they can’t be used in melee range. Also, what I meant from them getting a boost from explosive powder is – that the damage boost from explosive powder is on top of the 50% boost from granadier.

Lert.6287:

The unreasonable comparing is wrong on so many levels.
Comparing bombs with bigger AoE, more targets to hit and undoubtly better survivability and CC to granades with possibly better damage and range – yeah, i’m sure that’s gonna work.

for many situation, the effective damage radius is actually better for grenades because you can aim in front of you; with bombs, most of your blast radius is going into a wall. Once you trait the bomb blast radius, it is about equal in that case. Grenades actually hit more targets (both are 5 targets, but grenades are multiple hits at once, so 15 targets max). as far as survivability, bombs are better for group support, but for soloing, its often reversed – grenades offer better survivability simply because at long range, you can side step most attacks; also, while bombs offer a longer lasting blind field, grenades have blind on a shorter cooldown. The CC, you’re right about though; however, grenades have a higher damage toolbelt skill instead.

About traits – comparing to other traits boosting kits granadier sure might seem unfair, but nerfing granades overall isn’t key to solve it.

I feel that relying on grenades more than anything else is like a ranger relying mostly on bow, and we all know how people feel about that – the infamous bearbow. Also, should’ve mentioned before, but don’t grenades also get a damage boost from explosive powder? I do think grenades definitely need to be nerfed, maybe not by too much, if other kits are buffed. but, no ranged weapon should out damage a melee weapon.

Anymras.5729:

I do have to point out that the application of Vulnerability isn’t a Grenade Kit thing, but rather the result of the minor GM trait, so changing how it works could have unexpected effects.

It affects bombs (and mines?) also, I know. This would make bomb kit the better option for stack vuln, as bombs attack at a slightly faster rate than grenades. Another option is to leave the vuln stacking trait as it is, while buffing toolkit speed, making toolkit do just as much vuln, maybe even more, if its buffed enough.

First, I’ll start with why I think grenade kit should change: I feel that a ranged weapon should not do anywhere near as much damage as a melee weapon (or melee equivalent). Currently, grenades do almost as much personal damage as bombs, and more damage than toolkit. It is the top damage kit for group stuff, like dungeons. It is also annoying to use, as every skill is ground targeted, with no auto-attack.

The main source of the problem is the grenadier trait. It effectively boosts grenade damage by 50%, plus increasing the range. Every other kit only gets a 10% damage boost from traits.

So, my proposed fixes include:
•untraited grenades should only have a reduced range. you should not be able to throw something farther than you can shoot a gun. I’m thinking 750 range, at most.
•change grenadier to grenade launcher. with this trait selected, you still get the extra range, but its only one grenade that does damage equal to 10% more than the 2 grenades combined without the trait. The single grenade also travels faster.
•whether or not this changed trait offers ground targeting or auto-targeting is up for debate. They could even make it so just skill 1 is auto-targeted and the rest ground targeted.
•the way vuln is applied is also up for debate. I think the vuln should either have a greater duration, or stack 2-3 vuln per hit.
•toolkit needs to do more damage. this can be addressed by either directly increasing the damage per hit, or increasing the attack speed, or both. It should do more damage than grenades. Some people will argue that toolkit damage is fine because they feel it should only be used for utility (shield and pull). I counter this with the fact that bombs have blind, which is better for group support than the personal block from toolkit. While bombs are my favorite weapon, I feel that toolkit should actually do more damage because its attack range is more limited – bombs hit in a 360 degree radius and is great for kiting, toolkit only hits what is in front of you. I don’t, however, think bombs should be nerfed; rather, toolkit should be buffed.

I know this will never actually change because at least one ANet spokesperson (grouch) has stated that he loves grenades and doesn’t want anyone to touch the code for them. But, thought I’d put my opinion out there. Any thoughts, comments, or anything else you’d add to this?

You should name him something to do with bears and bows jk. I like Lytrocious better, especially if you have a wolf pet (the ly at the beginning make me think lycanthrope). Plus it fits closer to your account name, making it easier for your friends to notice who you are when you swap characters.

Dimes.6024:

omg, some lazy people find annoying using boons on their selfs, thus far they think that their opinion should be read.

warriors wouldnt take GS +?/Horn becouse it is annoying to leap and blow the horn

guards wouldnt take shouts and stuff becouse they find it annoying to have perma-swiftness

kitten , what that kind of people think while they post…

First, I stated my opinion of the trait setup. Second, speed kits/power shoes only affects the engineer using it; the traits you listed affect the whole group. Third, I find speedy kits annoying because when running, I constantly have to be watching my boon bar rather than paying full attention to where I’m going; Power shoes provides a 100% uptime of a 25% speed boost. There is an insignificant difference between 25 and 33% speed boost – when I’m trying to move fast, I’m usually ahead of everyone else (except some warriors and thieves of course). Also, I stay out of speed run groups, so the speed difference is even more insignificant. Finally, you seem to think I’m a complete noob. While I don’t do speed clears, I’m quite capable of soloing dungeons (and do so without exploits): youtube.com/Link500X