So I’ve been trying out Nettle’s 30/0/30/10 build that he was advocating (with my own tweaks) and I think it’s probably our best 100% lockdown build. Which I like conceptually. Lockdown is more of an all in kind of build to me and this personifies that perfectly. My only issue is that it probably wouldn’t perform that great in a team queue since you have very little survivability so once you start getting focused you won’t be able to stall/kite very much unlike with the extra survivability/confusion of the 20/20/30 setup, also not having signet of domination frees up space for more ways to survive. Overall though I love it. I think I’ll try it with Moa for a while to see if it’s useful lol.
Also I’ve come to see how Mirror Images could be really useful with this builds low illusion production.
I’m pretty sure the only thing we have for good aoe power damage besides izerker are shatters. Which are far too risky and inconsistent to use in zergs imo. So yeah if you’re going for that kind of build just picking someone off is your best bet.
I’ve been wondering to myself why A.net wants to stop people from going 2/2/2 with their rune sets. I think it promotes diversity in builds and should be encouraged. Also I think they’re going about trying to get people to stack the same runes on their armor the wrong way. If you want people to use the full set then make the stat bonuses more attractive. Punishing players for thinking outside of the box is a bad strategy to me.
Here’s my advice:
Instead of pretending to know everything about both classes and blaming the game because you’re losing to something, maybe actually learn to play better and overcome the difficulties with your own abilities.
In general, thieves usually counter mesmers. That’s just the way it is. That doesn’t make it unfair. Mesmers usually counter other classes.
Could you tell me what classes mesmers counter exactly because I can’t seem to find any. You could say condimancer but that’s literally one class spec amongst many and it’s not even that prevalent in tpvp/wvw. You could say we do well against other classes but I don’t see how we counter anything at all in pvps current state.
Also thieves counter almost all glass cannon specs. That’s what makes it unfair.
Osicat’s builds are pretty up to date. Though a lot of it deals with WvW it’s still applicable to spvp. Also if you browse around a few of the well known mesmers in this forum have been using lockdown builds with great success. I would post links but I’m on my phone right now.
Greatsword is fine where it is in my opinion. It’s a solid offensive choice in pvp and doesn’t need any changes there. In pve I hear it can be lacking but instead of changing greatsword I would rather get a short bow available for mesmer.
Also I’m not trying to bring you down but your suggested changes make greatsword just a staff that does more damage.
I’m thinking if you use battle sigils instead of fire you could have a more consistent dps boost since you would already have good access to might with BI and GS.
@Nettle
This seems interesting, I’m going to try running something similar to this since I really like using runes of the mesmer. I just don’t think I can run without blink or decoy. Since there isn’t much vigor or escapes how do you deal with tanky classes/thieves sticking to you?
I’m no expert on WvW but imo Ether Feast is usually always better than Mirror unless you’re running something that has synergy with it. Also Blink/Decoy are usually superior to Mirror Images in terms of evading/escaping/confusing the enemy. Other then that it seems alright.
I like Mender’s Purity with mantra heal but the only problem with that is that in 1v1s against condition heavy classes they usually cast then reapply those conditions as quickly as you remove them. Then you’re left with a decent cd on a subpar heal. But it is the best choice for Mender’s imo. I would probably run dual sword/staff just because it gives you kiting capabilities and the best dueling setup, to me anyways (other OHs are good but I find pistol to be too redundant for CI). Runes probably Lyssa since it makes MI an even better escape tool if things go bad. For sigils I like to use force more since I really hate when fire messes up my on-swaps, so I would go force/energy with hydromancy on staff.
I’ve really tried to like Furious Interruptions but I think the ICD is too long. It would be so much better to use if the cooldown was 7-9 seconds. 15 seconds just seems so inconsistent to me.
This thread is ridiculous. It’s plain and simple obvious that mesmers have always been powerful and PU is currently OP.
PU allows mesmers to have every single mechanic the game has. They can have sustained and continuous condi pressure (and every condi in the game), or high sustained Direct damage with range, 4-5 options of stealth, teleports, invulnerability, CC, immobilize, high self regen, protection, plenty of stun breaks, fight diversion (clones, defensive tactic), boon hate, blocks, and blinds. Some great players could make a good build around just a few of those mechanics or even just one. But mesmers get them all at once. One slight weakness is condition cleansing, but that is the only thing. This is the biggest wide open secret in the game; PU mesmers are over powered. And of course there will be people (most likely people that play PU mesmers) that will defend PU till the end because they don’t want their power taken away.
I have a mesmer friend that played a PU build in wvw and I’ve seen him fight entire groups of theives, small guild groups, anything that he has come across and win or at least survive with ease. Granted, his skill level is in the top 1-5% of anyone that plays this game, but that just shows the full potential of how nasty PU can be. Also, I’ve logged plenty of hours in wvw on every class with several different builds. I know exactly what every class and build in the game brings to the table, and there is just no way to effectively fight a good PU mesmer unless you completely build yourself to fight them (or use a equally cheese OP build aka warrior). In which you severely nerf yourself against every other encounter you come across. I have no reason to favor one class over another, and I’m simply stating in this post that PU is too powerful from an unbiased but experienced player.
I do want to note, arguing that other mesmer builds have gotten nerfed does not change the fact that PU is too powerful. Anet needs to just accept they need to rework a lot of things for their precious mesmers. Also, skill obviously has its affect in this argument. A bad PU mesmer that can’t combo skills and time dodges/stealth or offensive bursts will still be killed by any other class that is played by a good player that can do those things. Thats one of the beautiful things about this game. Therefor we cannot include the percentage of bad mesmers into this argument, as they are irrelevant and show no potential of how OP PU is.
I’m sure you’ve played mesmer extensively so you already know that all of the neat features you mentioned can’t all be utilized at the same time. But build up the class that has no real identity in pvp because we lack mobility, reliable burst, or desirable utilities (besides portal every once in a while), please, it makes me feel nice.
Also you say we can’t include the percentage of bad mesmers into the argument, but what about just the percentage of bad players? People who can’t even begin to comprehend how to fight mesmers let alone PU mesmers. These kinds of people are all over the place (especially in WvW) which makes whatever you or your friend do with PU irrelevant unless you have proof the players are good. At least if we’re going with what you’re saying. Which I agree, skills should be balanced according to the highest level of play, but you can’t match a great player with even a mediocre one and expect the one of lesser skill not to get destroyed no matter what build/spec the better player is running.
It’s a strong trait that gives mesmer good defensive capabilities. That’s it.
I’ll tell you right now I’ve never watched a high level streamer be moa’d, and for good reason, but if they ever did they would probably be more surprised than upset by it. You can give all the reasons you want as to why you think it’s broken but it’s not and it hasn’t been for a long time.
Mesmers are the secondary stealth class so why shouldn’t they have something like PU?
I’m not saying mesmers shouldn’t have stealth traits. I’m saying PU is too many things packed into one trait. The thief list is just an example of how many traits it takes another stealth class to build the same benefits. It’s wildly overpowered compared to the rest of our GM traits.
I don’t see how it’s too many things. You’re speccing into a defensive tree, picking a defensive trait, but that trait giving you defensive boons is somehow ludicrous? Also it’s not overpowered it promotes a different style of play as do all the other GM traits. Although we have a couple underwhelming ones I would say most of our GM traits give great benefits for speccing into it and they greatly affect the playstyle, which is what they were meant to do.
I’m confused as to why this is a thread lol. I’ve been playing mesmer since launch and no good mesmer will ever touch this elite. It’s easy to stop it from hitting and on top of that it’s just overall not very useful. Sure you can try to use it on bunkers, but you literally have to bait out everything (blocks, immunes, dodges, etc.) or try to cast it from stealth, which won’t go over well if the moa’s buddy shows up. Mass Invisibility and Time Warp are infinitely more useful in many more situations. Please don’t start threads about things you know very little about. It doesn’t make you seem very smart.
I’m wondering why you mentioned healing signet when it has literally nothing to do with the build a warrior could be running. Just like a majority of mesmers run ether feast, or how most necros run consume conditions, a majority (if not all) warriors run healing signet because it’s the superior heal, it’s not the sign of some specific build.
Why are mesmers complaining about our own trait that’s not broken and makes roaming more appealing? Every other class has major problems with their traits and how they flow with their utilities/weapons (except for thief and guardian) but you people insist on complaining about a good trait because it’s newbie friendly and “sheds a bad light on mesmers”. Most of the players who cry about it don’t even know what PU does.
Also saying something should be nerfed just because you don’t like when other people play it is not a reason to nerf it, that’s just childish; and saying that there is no counter-play to it is utter bs. PU doesn’t make you a god, it makes you hard to kill. Darnacus gave a few specs that do well against PU so I’m not going to repeat it.
I share Osicat’s sentiments with this actually. It’s not broken. If you don’t like it don’t use it.
I’ve recently gotten into Lockdown builds in tpvp and now I’ve gone a bit crazy theorycrafting which build would be the most useful in both a competitive setting and a solo setting. To me this has made CS my go to trait for my builds because I love chain dazing and with halting strike it’s a nice bonus for nailing an interrupt. So here is where my main problem lies.
What other GM trait would fit best for the play style I want. I feel like although CI/BI are easily our best interrupt traits, if I spec for those I feel very weak in a 1v1 situation (which happens a lot in solo queue when the team won’t cooperate). Though I like the Shatterlock build, without good clone generation from DE it feels less fluid. I haven’t tried ID but it seems like it wouldn’t be too useful in 1v1s either (though 1v2 it has potential to do well for an extended period) even though it has great team fighting capabilities.
So I’m looking for just a few helpful suggestions if anyone has them.
I run all of that (pretty positive sigil doesn’t work for dazes) and it puts me at 1 1/4 seconds of daze. Which with mantra+off sw+diversion you could potentially daze/stun someone for over 5 seconds.
Edit: Also with just the runes it keeps the daze at 1 second I’m pretty sure.
So I’m wondering how you keep the disenchanter alive. Since I’ve been running this build most of my illusions die in the ensuing chaotic aoe so the disenchanter is alive for maybe 3 seconds lol. Then in 1v1’s it’s mostly hambows that aoe the hell out of everything so it disappears pretty quickly there too.
If you’ve played mesmer as much as you’re saying then I’m pretty sure it’s a l2p issue seeing kittenter isn’t even considered an “OP” spec anymore. You’re just better than the people you’re playing against.
You probably shouldn’t cry about the one mechanic the mesmer’s GS has to keep distance in the mesmer subforums lol. If you want actual feedback post it in wvw or pvp subforums.
Also your complaint isn’t really a complaint. It’s like saying, “Why does guardian have so much blocks? I mean they already bubble me away from the point and have almost infinite retaliation uptime, just take away their blocks QQ”
I actually really like the overall design and layout of Skyhammer but I think the problems lie mostly with the mechanics of the map/game not the hammer its self, although a change wouldn’t hurt:
1. You shouldn’t be able to be feared off of ledges. That’s just an extremely basic thing that WoW got right that should have already existed in this game.
2. Either extend the amount of time it takes to break the glass or make it only able to be destroyed by the hammer because all it does is cause troll knockback/pull mechanics to make the game less fun.
3. Make the hammer aoe smaller. Seriously the size of the thing is ridiculous. I don’t even care how much damage it does I just want to be able to get out of it ever. And tbh I could live without this change.
Like I said I really like the design but it’s just too much of a troll map to even be fun.
As a shatter mesmer it’s especially hard for me to do anything to them. Since my clones die so easily in the aoe it’s really hard to get good shatters going. I’m guessing PU would decimate it but I got tired of running that so I’m looking for some suggestions on whether I would be able to work around fighting hambows or just give up the point whenever I see them lol.
