Guild Wars 2

tetrodoxin.2134:

One other thing I wanna add is the weird >>theoretical<< handicap a Mesmer has vs. some skills/specs in particular. Like the upcoming Reaper shouts which benefit a great amount from hitting multiple targets. Now I haven’t tested Reaper yet, but I imagine shouts being really nasty in small scale fights vs. a Mesmer. Outside of rarely played specs (spirit wep Guard or post-nerf turret Engi), no other class has to deal with that issue. Now I’m not calling for nerfs or anything, but maybe someone can share his/her experience and opinion on that.

Since Reaper was basically all I’ve been playing in BWE I can firmly say that there’s only a couple worth using and at best they’re average. Definitely not something you should worry about since you won’t be seeing a lot of it. Are you talking about Reaper getting benefits from their shouts by hitting the mesmer + clones though? If so I never really tested that in like a 1v1 situation so I’ll get back to you.

@OP: Deceptive Evasion being baseline is something that everyone has asked for since the beginning and the consensus from A.net is that it’s not a necessary change. I would actually have to agree since they made IP baseline now. Before mesmers were hampered because their best way to do damage in pvp required both of those traits and now that you don’t need one it opens up so many options that were never possible before. DE no longer needs a change because we’ve also been given other viable ways to generate clones. The production rate certainly isn’t as high, but if you use it effectively it gets the job done.

I prefer running cele myself (in pvp) since I think full condi necro has very limited options even with Reaper. I’ve never had so much fun on my necro before! Except maybe when I crit peoples faces off with lich form sometimes. xP

wolfyrik.2017:

Raunchy.6891:

Chill is one of my favorite conditions. Confusion is the only other condition that edges it out for me so having a spec basically dedicated to chilling the enemy is possibly one of my favorite things that the devs have introduced into the game yet. I’m a mesmer main and I’m much more excited to test out things with this reaper spec than the chronomancer (not saying chrono is bad). I really think that with chill being as powerful as it is that it opens up very interesting and fun possibilities for necros.

Can’t tell if serious or sarcastic…..

Sorry that I’m not on the complain about everything bandwagon? Like I said I’m a mesmer main. I dont play this class competitively in the least so I dont know much about the issues you guys have I just play it because to me it’s fun and not too tryhard.

Chill is one of my favorite conditions. Confusion is the only other condition that edges it out for me so having a spec basically dedicated to chilling the enemy is possibly one of my favorite things that the devs have introduced into the game yet. I’m a mesmer main and I’m much more excited to test out things with this reaper spec than the chronomancer (not saying chrono is bad). I really think that with chill being as powerful as it is that it opens up very interesting and fun possibilities for necros.

I wouldn’t say our burst is neutered but I’m curious to see if these changes are going to bring new ways for people to complain about us or will people keep saying it’s not enough.

Edit: To answer your question op, yes, we already get the crit chance that we need from amulets/runes so air/fire on gs is still the most optimal. While I like to run energy/x on my other weapon set.

apharma.3741:

Raunchy.6891:

Shatters still account for about 60-80% of our burst depending on how many clones you have out so I don’t see how taking away more of our personal damage balances our burst. This change mostly hurts pve mesmers honestly and it’s a shame. It takes away a bit of burst overall for pvp mesmers but in the long run MB was not the issue and it didn’t really need to be changed.

Also yeah you’re right, but most other classes have reliable ways to cc the target and land their burst. All we have is CS lol.

Um in PvE you should still one shot trash, anything harder you proably want a phantasm build. That’s without mentioning PvP balance trumps PvE balance mostly in Anets eyes.

Shatters under 4 bounce Mirror Blade accounted for less than half of the burst. Now it is in line with the 60-80%.

Please, do tell us what the issue was.

Well it’s kind of assumed that you’re running a phantasm build in pve since it has the highest dps potential for us. GS has always been our best way of hitting trash in an aoe and tagging them all even though GS is a very underpeforming weapon in pve when compared to sword/×. So taking away the extra bounce that helps it actually be a viable weapon to kill trash with is annoying.

The damage on 4 bounces is a bit higher because shatter damage was balanced around 3 bounces. Since of course you know the 4th bounce used to be a trait. The whole point of making elasticity baseline was to increase our personal damage and I don’t think it was at a level that needed to be nerfed. The patch proves otherwise I guess, but as I’ve said a lot of the mesmer community doesn’t want it to be this way; we would much rather have better personal damage. Shatters are an unreliable and sometimes very clunky and frustrating mechanic that we don’t want to feel shackled to if we want competitive damage.

apharma.3741:

Raunchy.6891:

These numbers are assuming that the opposing player doesn’t dodge, block, port away, or invuln. If the players don’t use defensive maneuvers supplied then I could see how Mirror Blade was the problem here. Also you have to be basically right next to the player to get off that full rotation so I don’t see how that’s non-committal.

Plus the mesmer community has been over this again and again how we don’t want all of our damage front loaded into our shatters/phantasms, but it keeps happening with every update they do.

It’s just to show how much of that combo MB is accounting for, which is way too much. At the end of the day Anet do want shatters to be our burst and that’s what we’re talking about, burst not just damage.

As for the invuln, block, blind arguement, that can be levied against almost every burst in the game except maybe thief due to the way they can keep at it till it’s landed.

Bonus points: Do the math at 3k power and 220% crit chance, it’s absolutely insane.

Shatters still account for about 60-80% of our burst depending on how many clones you have out so I don’t see how taking away more of our personal damage balances our burst. This change mostly hurts pve mesmers honestly and it’s a shame. It takes away a bit of burst overall for pvp mesmers but in the long run MB was not the issue and it didn’t really need to be changed.

Also yeah you’re right, but most other classes have reliable ways to cc the target and land their burst. All we have is CS lol.

Edit: @Gabriell
And I obviously wasn’t talking about blocking the move that’s been unblockable since launch. Please just think about things before you reply to them.

Gabriell.4856:

“These numbers are assuming that the opposing player doesn’t dodge, block, port away, or invuln.”

Can’t block…mirror blade….

I’m sorry, does Mind Wrack, the other HALF of that damage have a tooltip saying it’s unblockable? Oh I didn’t think so…

apharma.3741:

With marauder amulet:

Mirror Blade:
2050*0.7*1047.5/2029 = 740.8
Crit 740.8*1.76 = 1304
With multipliers 1304*1.12 = 1460
2nd hit 1512, 3rd hit 1564
Total: 4,536

Mind Wrack:
2050*0.89*1047.5/2029 = 942
Crit 942*1.76 = 1658
With multipliers 1658*1.255= 2081 (2081*2 = 4162)

That’s a non mental anguish buffed MW after using mirror blade (pre nerf) assuming they all crit and you will be sitting on some 75% crit chance (over 80% with pack runes) so it’s not outside the realms of possibility.

Mirror blade makes up way too much of that with very little commitment to burst. I gather the emphasis of this nerf is to move the damage onto mental anguish and thus shatters as opposed to mirror blade.

With that mirror blade would be about 3k and your MW would go down by about 5% (~200 damage)on non mental anguish builds like the mantra build. So your MB+MW burst would be just over 7k instead of about 8.6k. However such builds make that up with powerblock.

Edit: Did a 1 clone shatter instead of 2. Results are the same though.
Edit 2: Incase anyone is wondering why the damage is lower it’s because it’s using PvP amulets. In WvW you can get upto 220% crit damage and over 3k power which would give mirror blade crits of 2.7k and up.

These numbers are assuming that the opposing player doesn’t dodge, block, port away, or invuln. If the players don’t use defensive maneuvers supplied then I could see how Mirror Blade was the problem here. Also you have to be basically right next to the player to get off that full rotation so I don’t see how that’s non-committal.

Plus the mesmer community has been over this again and again how we don’t want all of our damage front loaded into our shatters/phantasms, but it keeps happening with every update they do.

I don’t mind it that much although I’ll admit Mirror Blade was not the issue that needed to be fixed. It’s been around since the beginning and no one, with a sound mind, has complained about it ever that I know of. I get that making it baseline opened up more damage possibilities to us, but the crux of the issue that people have been complaining about is being able to stealth burst other classes. Now of course Mirror Blade has a part in that rotation, but I highly doubt that extra 2k bounce is what was putting us over the top.

I don’t really care if they revert it or not, but it definitely wasn’t a skill that needed to be changed. Anet always finds creative ways to not do what we ask though. xD

Edit: @DHawk
That extra 2.5k damage was really kittening you off huh bud? lol

Ansau.7326:

Ele, on the other hand, is the perfect profession. It has everything you could imagine in a single build.
Decent power damage, decent condi damage, might stack, stability stack, offensive boons (fury, reta), defensive boons (rege, protection), condi cleansing, passive healing, active healing though a lot of skills, soft CC (cripple, weakness, vulnerability), hard CC (, chill, stuns, knockdowns, launch), great mobility both in combat and ooc…

I think people are too caught up with their mesmer qq to remember this about eles. No other class in the game can do what an even decent ele player can do and that’s a fact. Also once you learn rotations ele isn’t the most difficult thing in the world, you just need to know what the other professions can do to you and react accordingly. I’ve seen 2 dd eles 2v4 on a point and do fine for like 2 minutes. A mesmer against good people can probably last a 1v2 for about 20 seconds. People still get confused by clones though since they’re bad I guess.

I’m not saying that Confounding Suggestions is fine as it is, because it’s not. Complaining about Blinding Dissipation though is ridiculous to me. The only argument people can have against it is that it “doesn’t fit” the mesmer. It’s a mechanic that takes timing and experience to even use properly, plus it’s only available through all of the mesmers shatter abilities that are at best up every 10 seconds. If the mesmer is spamming blinds to not get hit they aren’t going to have a blind when you try to land meaningful burst onto them, nor will the be able to land any meaningful burst onto you. I get that if you evade it you shouldn’t be blinded, but every other argument is dumb. Blinks, stealth, and blind make them harder to kill because that’s the point of those skills. They aren’t unbeatable mechanics they’re just defensive skills you have to know are going to be used before you land meaningful burst (most of the time). Which is why condition/hybrid damage does very well against mesmers.

I’m going to really try shield in pvp. From what I’ve looked up the phantasm gives 3 seconds of slow so having two of them out would greatly decrease the damage anyone is trying to pump out on us, if the numbers remain the same that is. It does take away the escape capabilities we have with torch, but having multiple blocks helps us get away as well. In the end it might be ineffective, but you never know until you try it.

You can never go wrong with good old berserker.

I just use signet of inspiration now and call it a day. I never don’t see people coming so I change my utilities then.

Classic power shatter works just fine with Staff/GS as well. Dom/Duel/Illusion

Toxsa.2701:

Cares Less.9631:

Fay.2357:

Mesmer build options and effectiveness have been so consistently kitten for so long that when they’re suddenly something else…you have no idea how to react.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but Mesmer requiring 10x more effort to accomplish what everyone else could do didn’t make it better or more fun…it just made it non-meta and aggravating to play. Now we’re getting a reward more appropriate to the effort we put in, and some deluded mesmers are asking for nerfs. It boggles the mind.

You can’t scream for buffs all the time and then turn around and ask for nerfs after you get buffed. Stupid threads like this are one of the reasons mesmers never get nice things.

^ This, after facing unneeded nerf after nerf, we are finally back where we should be, no other class has face the level of single minded persecution that Mesmer has. What should happen is that all loyal Mesmer players should take a leaf out of the whingers here, go to another classes forums and all make post after post, bleat after bleat, thread after thread about that class and cry for nerfs… Pathetic really, a lot of the people who cry here are all recent Mesmer players who have no idea about the struggle and skill it took to excel at Mesmer, and have enjoyed the face roll of classes such as Thief, guess what, not once have the majority of loyal Mesmers calls for nerfs, we just adapted, improvised and overcame, not because it was fair, but because we just manned up and did it. I for one hope there are no nerfs, and everyone dries their princes eyes and cry yourselves to sleep on your kitten shaped pillows.

Fun facts:
1. Before the patch the most common candidate of people crying for nerf is toward ranger and thief.
2. Ranger and Necro suffers WAY WAY WAY more than Mesmer ever could have imagined, like more than 2 years of being literally unviable, proven by statistic in almost all game modes. (Well, at least Necro is good at WvW, but Ranger is bad at ALL game modes. PVE Meta= Ele, Thief, War, Guardian, Mesmer. WVW Meta = GWEN and “sometimes” Mesmer. PVP Meta = WEETG and “sometimes” Mesmer)
3. If you test at something and find anything OP of other classes, feel free to post there instead of trying to justify the currently OP build. It is a very VERY weak argument.

1 is true
2 is almost true. Both necro and ranger had their moments of wide use and popularity in pvp before cele builds became viable. Don’t get me wrong it was over the course of months but almost every class has had their own cycle of popular use. Also those two classes didn’t start out really good like mesmer did and get nerfed into mediocrity. They started not great and finally became viable just to be nerfed again.
3 I don’t understand what you think is op about mesmers right now. CS is too strong for an adept and PU allows for even less counter-play (although condi got nerfed). These are really the only complaints worth having about the current mesmer, going on how everything has played out thus far. If you think our damage is too high you haven’t played against any good guards/eles because they can take us out surprisingly quick as opposed to pre-patch.

I knew that having everything available for lockdown would be a little too good. I think lockdown has enough to play with and CS is too good for an adept trait. This is basically the only mesmer nerf I’ll ever ask for so don’t mess this up A.net

My big thoughts are how does this affect pve mesmers, because I saw that they basically combined Harmonious Mantras and Empowering Mantras which messes with pve builds iirc. Will we have to go into more of a boon share/reflect support role now in dungeons/fractals? I’m never going to do a lot of that stuff but I’m still curious lol.

After reading all of this I’m so excited to play Mesmer that it’s killing me inside and I’ve been a Mesmer since launch.

I think it would be better to just give it a better power ratio so that it’s more useful against every profession

I really like this video. Keep up the good work

It would have to be pretty low base power, because I could see that with Halting Strike being problematic.

If we get a good way to mitigate damage I’m completely down with having a shield. If we don’t then the devs failed us again lol. Those don’t seem like terrible odds I guess.

imaclown.1628:

Raunchy.6891:

NeXeD.3042:

choovanski.5462:

NeXeD.3042:

Still sounds like a bunch of whiners who can’t hack it. So they say the game doesn’t take that much skill even though they can’t break into the top echelon of pvp…. but of course if you “felt” like it you could right…..

i speak as a decent pvp player, go and fight a top player. i fought caed with a pal and it completely changed my perspective on tournaments. those 1v1s were like going back to being a noob again. caed is a beast, and the fact that all of the players are at a similar level, in that they can beat and survive caed.

most people come to these forums and call builds faceroll, cele engi and ele especially. sure, they are faceroll if you are facing scrubs- but not if you are facing good players (nothing, apart from maybe phantasam mesmer is faceroll vs good players). all the qq about passive mechanics and blaming of game systems hardly make any of you look good at all. y’all are probably those scrub thieves i squash on a daily basis.

Thank you. they all think there is just some simple rotation and then they are pro but " I just don’t feel like playing in those tournaments" or some players pull the “I know players that are better than all those players in tournaments they just don’t feel like doing them” yeah kittening right if they thought they had a chance at winning 50k they would have taken it.

I’m pretty positive no one here is saying the top players are bad or that this is a game that takes no skill. We all just recognize its flaws and if you compare this game’s advanced techniques and strategies it hardly stacks up with games like SC, DotA, CS: GO, or even LoL (which isn’t a super mechanically accentuated game).

It’s exactly what alot of you are saying, it’s hysterical that you think wording it in cute ways makes any difference.

I sincerely doubt you understand 100% of pvp mechanics or strategies.

Also I played both SC2 and CS:GO your insane if you think those are in some way complicated. The biggest difference is in those games one mistake screws you completely, gw2 is more forgiving in the current meta so huge game changing plays are rarer. In CS GO and SC2 big plays have to happen for the game to end.

I guess it wasn’t the best idea to try and speak for everyone, but that’s certainly how I feel about it. You can doubt my understanding of this game’s pvp just as I’ll doubt yours, but you don’t have any proof for what you’re saying. Top pvpers of this game have already stated in the past how lackluster and unsatisfying the competitive environment is, and the percentage of players that have left this game since its inception could also make an argument for me.

We can have a back and forth about how actually no game is really that complicated or you can remember that I didn’t say that those games are complicated at all. I just said if you’re comparing any of them to GW2 there’s a lot more depth in them.

NeXeD.3042:

choovanski.5462:

NeXeD.3042:

Still sounds like a bunch of whiners who can’t hack it. So they say the game doesn’t take that much skill even though they can’t break into the top echelon of pvp…. but of course if you “felt” like it you could right…..

i speak as a decent pvp player, go and fight a top player. i fought caed with a pal and it completely changed my perspective on tournaments. those 1v1s were like going back to being a noob again. caed is a beast, and the fact that all of the players are at a similar level, in that they can beat and survive caed.

most people come to these forums and call builds faceroll, cele engi and ele especially. sure, they are faceroll if you are facing scrubs- but not if you are facing good players (nothing, apart from maybe phantasam mesmer is faceroll vs good players). all the qq about passive mechanics and blaming of game systems hardly make any of you look good at all. y’all are probably those scrub thieves i squash on a daily basis.

Thank you. they all think there is just some simple rotation and then they are pro but " I just don’t feel like playing in those tournaments" or some players pull the “I know players that are better than all those players in tournaments they just don’t feel like doing them” yeah kittening right if they thought they had a chance at winning 50k they would have taken it.

I’m pretty positive no one here is saying the top players are bad or that this is a game that takes no skill. We all just recognize its flaws and if you compare this game’s advanced techniques and strategies it hardly stacks up with games like SC, DotA, CS: GO, or even LoL (which isn’t a super mechanically centralized game).

NeXeD.3042:

ahh I understand now, the skillcap is so low that’s why it’s mostly the same players in big tournaments…….. right….

Gear is still a non issue….. I love when people come complain about dumb kitten because they had a bad night or they just aren’t as good as others….. snowflakes…. very special snowflakes.

There’s nothing actually hard about this game lol. You just have to know what other professions do and know your own rotations. It’s like WoW, but with dodges. Strategies and rotations come into play, but they aren’t as major of a factor as you would think as the level of skill increases.

Also this “dumb kitten” they’re complaining about have been said since day one and hasn’t been touched on since. Which explains the exponential drop in player base that happened since GW2’s release until now.

I know thieves think that they know all about how their class should work or whatever, but do you guys realize how short a 5 sec cd is and do you also realize how many of your weapons skills are easily punishable? You have literally 4 moves that have more than 3/4 of a second of cast time and one of them you start while stealthed. Interrupting anything that takes less than 3/4 of a second to cast is either amazing reflexes or pure luck. Either of which will not happen 100% of the time, and both should be rewarded because of how it’s next to impossible to do consistently. Especially in a pvp setting that isn’t 1v1. You can say PB shouldn’t work the way we want it to, that’s fine. Trying to play the victim like thieves would be instantly kitten by this into inferiority isn’t going to fool anyone though. We’ve all seen nerfs, so just because your profession has been nerfed doesn’t mean that it takes precedence over the concerns of ours.

jenzie.4083:

Fixed iLeap
Illusionariy elasticity for clones is working.
Condition shatter is a thing.
PU is a bit nerfed.

They added Sinister Gear, Condition/power/perception, not really used ny mesmers atm.

Thanks for helping me understand that a bit. I at least know nothing too big has changed.

So I stopped playing this for a few months a little after the big pvp patch and I’m looking to get back into it. I was just going to jump right back in, but I don’t know what’s going on with the meta or if it’s sort of stayed the same. I see that they increased the radius of GS #3, so I guess that big thread got enough traction. I still wish it did a little more, but I’m fine with that.

Did they change any runes to make more viable on shatter/lockdown in spvp than others? Did they add more gear for wvw? I don’t feel like scouring for patch notes atm, so I would appreciate it if someone humored me. xP

I’ve been down 200 points multiple times in solo queue and come back from it. Sometimes it’s not that your team is too bad to win, it’s just that mistakes were made in the early game. Shortening the matches doesn’t solve the problem anyways. It just makes you believe you’re not wasting your time when there should just be a way for a team to surrender.

Rainbowtwist.6102:

it lacks power due to fact that if you go beserker for armor, you lose a lot of crit.

lolwut.
I could understand you saying the survivability is low, but Berserker armor has a lot of power/crit. The damage is fine.

Carighan.6758:

Burden of proof is on you, then.
Mind you, you’re up against roguelikes, crits in general and most board and card games. All using RNG for risk management challenging.
I would argue that the “no one” you mention are the subset of players who cannot handle risk assessment?

You can use crit as an example, but you can build to amplify crit chance therefore increasing your odds to crit. Can you do that with staff? I don’t think so.

Also using board games and card games as an example to compare to any kind of action based video game is inherently flawed, since the basic principles of how they work are extremely different.

Carighan.6758:

I’d throw in competitive poker players as a first line. Their entire game is based around the random cards being dealt, and how to play a winning game from that.

Again, you’re comparing two things that have no similarities besides rng elements and mental maneuvering.

Carighan.6758:

Alternatively if we want to stay MMO-only, critical hits don’t seem to annoy competitive players much. Only, that’s RNG. You could easily not crit at all, an entire fight, unless you have 100%+ chance. How’s that fair and promoting skillful play, then?

Crits, in this game especially don’t completely affect how an exchange can go. Also I wouldn’t say you could easily not crit. It’s possible to not crit an entire fight if you don’t have 100% chance, but the probability of that actually happening is so slim it’s not even worth mentioning.

Carighan.6758:

You say RNG is bad for skillful play. I’ll counter that unless you can account for random chances and their possible outcomes, you really lacking an absolutely crucial ability of any commander, warrior, tactician, controller or even manager. Or worker, for that case. Why you would be talking about playing skillful if you cannot manage risk and randomness … I don’t know.

It’s not that I think rng shouldn’t be in games at all. I’m saying it’s not a good mechanic when it’s forced upon you, especially in a pvp environment. Instead of a blanket statement like the first one I’ll just say this. No competitive player will ever say that they like rng in their game. I know professional gamers, and they reduce the amount of rng available to them to as little as possible, so that it’s never a matter of luck as to who is the winner.

Carighan.6758:

selan.8354:

i agree with u. staff is very rng which is a problem because u never know how effective your attacks are. u can be lucky and get a ton of nice condis and daze off, but then u can be unlucky and your chaosstorm deal like no dmg, your phantasm fails to hit anything and your chaos armor is useless. rng is bad and mes has so many skills and traits that only work if a certain thing is fullfilled. some traits only trigger if u kill something, others only trigger is shatter hit other stuff only trigger if u get hit…etc. staff is rng weapon and needs a make over imo!

Half the chaos line is about random effects. RNG is a really good mechanic for game balance, it forces players to do risk management.

I know it’s unpopular among 1v1 players, but then 1v1 is just not a supported game format in GW2.

lolwut.
No one likes rng, especially in pvp. Ask anyone competitive and they will tell you how terrible it is for rng mechanics to be shoved into your face. It balances nothing. It just makes things more random, and random effects/consequences do not support skillful play. You know what actually promotes risk management? Skills that involve risk…..

There are quite a few traits I would change. For the most part I agree with Kadj, so I’ll just exclude those traits.

Rending Shatter
This should just be moved because there are too many stronger traits than this in the tree. Putting it in Dueling or Inspiration could make it actually worth getting. Even putting it in the Chaos tree would be fine (though it wouldn’t make much sense).

Confusing Enchantments
This skill should put 2 stacks of confusion. Since the nerf it’s just lackluster.

Greatsword Training
I think this should increase all boon stripping abilities by 1, and take away the 50 power.

Cleansing Conflagration
This should remove 2 conditions instead of just 1. Conditions are pretty easy to apply and reapply so I don’t see how this would be a problem.

Wastrel’s Punishment
This just isn’t a very rewarding trait. It either needs to be buffed or changed completely

Power Block
It needs to have more associated with it. As it is now it’s pretty much our 2nd worst interrupt trait. Tbh just making it work against thieves could easily give it a spot, but that’s probably not going to happen.

Confounding Suggestions
I would like it if this was 100% stun on daze with a 3-5 second icd. Even though a 50% chance to stun is high, nothing is as reliable as a 100% chance. It doesn’t need this change at all, but I would welcome it easily.

Blurred Inscriptions
It would be nice if this activated before the signet use instead of after it, but I can see how being able to always cover your heal could be too strong.

Furious Interruption
Just seems like an awkwardly long cooldown to use effectively after the first cooldown. It would be nice if it still gave fury on a lower icd, but I understand how that would also be too strong.

Triumphant Distortion
I’m guessing this got a preemptive nerf since we were first told it was no icd, but this is actually how it should have stayed. The trait is basically only usable in wvw and pve so I don’t see why it needs an icd. Either the icd needs to be taken away or changed to a downed enemy.

Cleansing Inscriptions
I think this should remove 2 conditions since 1 is a bit weak.

Chaotic Interruption
This shouldn’t apply cripple. If anything, applying poison would be a much better effect. I personally would like to only apply chill, but having other useful conditions being applied is good too.

Restorative Mantras
This needs to scale better with healing power, so that healing power is actually a desired stat.

Disruptor’s Sustainment
It’s not very well designed, plus it doesn’t stack in any way. Couple this with the fact that healing power is a mesmer’s worse stat, this trait just needs to be changed. Healing on interrupt seems like a pretty nice idea (Pyro). Making it stack in duration or intensity would actually make this trait semi-useful.

Dazzling Glamours
This skill should apply blind if people walk into it too. It just seems like a fair punishment if you’re not going to pay attention, you get the full effects of our glamours.

Shattered Strength
I think should give 2 stacks of might, but it isn’t bad how it is now.

Imbued Diversion
I think this should either refresh the cooldown on Diversion or lower it by 20% upon interrupt. Or lowering it by a flat 20% at all times would be a welcomed improvement. Being able to use an ability every 30 secs that you put a GM slot in to make better seems really……unrewarding.

Chaos.3579:

Actually it’s not just phantasms. Several of our utility skills mirror other class’s skills. Granted in some case’s they are weaker effects but they are still inspired By other class’s.
Additionally there are some skills we have that take after 2 class’s.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusion_of_Life
Is similar to
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Undeath and war banner the warrior elite skill.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcane_Thievery
Is like a combination of
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deathly_Swarm
And a thiefs steal ability either on sword dagger 3 skill. Or steal when traited with bountiful thief.

There are many many more. However the idea is that we are a mental class. We get in to the minds of our enemies and of course that has its benefits. Benefits being exploiting powers against its user. Granted they are weaker then there original form……because they are illusions, and mind games

Additionally we as Mesmers being a mental class can steal enemy boons. As well as rip the. So why can’t we corrupt them?
Granted necro should be better at it in terms of number of boons corrupted and number of skills and traits with the corrupt boon effect.
Just as thief should be better at stealing boons then we are.

Corrupting a enemy boon actually fits the mesmer class. Think about it….we get in your head….find a lovely little boon you pride yourself on….then turn your strength in To your weakness. We can mess with your mind and make you lose your stability…….and even strike fear in you with your worst nightmares. Fits Mesmer perfectly I think.
It would fit “mind stab”…we stab our gs in to the ground and up in to your head…..how does that not make you afraid?

Just letting you know, every class has a group revive skill so I wouldn’t say we take after another class in that aspect. I’ll admit that Arcane Thievery can fit with your point but that skill switches boons and conditions on us which I think fits entirely around the mesmer concept. It’s similar to stealing boons like a thief, but we have the added effect of switching the conditions which completely coincides with us being an ethereal, hard to pin down class that tricks you into thinking you’re strong and then quickly levels the playing field.

Corrupting anything in general just doesn’t seem like something a mesmer should be able to do. It doesn’t fit their archetype. Think about it, an ethereal and arcane magic user that mostly tries to trick enemies for some reason is corrupting them? If people like the idea then so be it, but boon stripping fits us much better than boon corrupting.

Edit: Also, some things should just stay class specific.

Chaos.3579:

Raunchy.6891:

Chaos.3579:

Raunchy.6891:

The more I’ve thought about it, the more I wouldn’t want this to be channeled, but the aoe either needs to be bigger or the boon strip should be more noticable. People hardly even use it for the boon strip, so I would even be fine with keeping the damage the same if that gets raised to compensate, and just make it like mind spike so it does extra damage with no boons on the target.

I’ve always wanted it to have a better boon strip order…..removes 1swiftness before stability facepalm.

Although a interesting idea that i think would be fun Is instead of ripping the boon is corrupts it….so stability….turns to fear…..so much potential

I think corrupting boons should be solely a necro thing. Just like stripping them is ours.

The thing about mesmer is we use skills and abilities from all class’s. Whirling attack on our berserker is from war. Warden is ranger axe whirling attack. Ect. You can see this with our phantasms and a few other skills. So really having a weak version of necro’s corrupt boon (1 boon corrupted instead of 5 or 3) would be perfectly fine

The only reason those are fine is because they’re phantasms. They’re supposed to give the illusion of an ally coming to help us. Since Mind Stab doesn’t work in this way, I find it harder to explain really.

Chaos.3579:

Raunchy.6891:

The more I’ve thought about it, the more I wouldn’t want this to be channeled, but the aoe either needs to be bigger or the boon strip should be more noticable. People hardly even use it for the boon strip, so I would even be fine with keeping the damage the same if that gets raised to compensate, and just make it like mind spike so it does extra damage with no boons on the target.

I’ve always wanted it to have a better boon strip order…..removes 1swiftness before stability facepalm.

Although a interesting idea that i think would be fun Is instead of ripping the boon is corrupts it….so stability….turns to fear…..so much potential

I think corrupting boons should be solely a necro thing. Just like stripping them is ours.

Now that I’ve actually run the numbers. I’ve come to determine that over time staff does a comparable amount of damage to other two handed weapons, even if it is on the lower end of the scale. So I’m guessing that raising the power coefficient would make it a bit more powerful than intended. Oh well it sounded good in my head.

Edit: What about making the boons it gives to allies last 1sec longer?

xallever.1874:

Raunchy.6891:

xallever.1874:

BlackDevil.9268:

I’ve increased the scaling due earlier people asking for it and cause it makes sense to me.
Where was it stated that the weapon is condition oriented? The iwarlock deals normal damage, much higher in power builds than in condition builds and chaos storm apply’s 2/3 (or 3/4 if you count daze causing vurnability as condition) conditions which deal 0 damage. They only get affected by condition duration, which power builds also can make profit from due immobilizes etc.
The AA also applies vurnability, which is mostly only usefull for power builds. That’s 1/3rd of the AA.
The weapon is supposed to be some sort of hybrid weapon obviously, though it’s based way too much on RNG and the AA scaling is very ‘’power-demoting’‘. I agree it’s a defensive weapon, but the changed I’ve listed wouldnt even increase the total damage so much. Sure AA becomes a little bit stronger, that’s about it?

Condition damage relies on DoT, so the mobility the Staff provides help you to survive whilst waiting for the damage to tick.

iWarlock deals damage normally, but its power scales to the conditions the enemies suffer.

And obviously, chaos storm gives out boons and conditions.

If it’s a power-oriented weapon, then obviously it will have some sort of burst akin to a power weapon, like the Guardian’s GS, Warrior’s GS, etc.

The burst is in iWarlock where it should be. Staff is more utility than conditions though since the #1 skill is the only skill that you can condi pressure with. The conditions Chaos Storm provides are strictly for utility, which is why the only one that does damage is poison and even that’s a short duration.

Seeing as how a condition or a power spec can benefit from utility; why is it that the power scaling for the #1 skill needs to stay so absurdly low? I honestly don’t think it should be by much, but raising the scaling doesn’t seem like a ridiculous request.

Well, the AA from #1 is already proof that it’s oriented more towards condition as you’ve said. Look at the Napalm Cat Osicat is using.

Whereas for a power build, the fact that the Staff is mostly a utility weapon, and a defensive one at that, why should its power rating be increased?

Your argument defeats its own position by calling the Staff a utility weapon because utility fulfills its purpose without the need for any damage buff.

If anything, what you’ll be asking for is things like more teleport range on the skill #2 if there is anything wrong with the utility of this weapon.

lolwut. Utility doesn’t mean “shouldn’t do damage”. It means that it’s useful. The mobility that staff provides in combat along with access to Chaos Armor and a couple boons is useful. That shouldn’t justify staff having abysmal pressuring power unless Chaos Storm is up.

Having 2 damaging conditions on low duration does not make a weapon a condi weapon, and actually Osi’s build proves that Balthazar runes are strong more than it proves staff is.

xallever.1874:

BlackDevil.9268:

I’ve increased the scaling due earlier people asking for it and cause it makes sense to me.
Where was it stated that the weapon is condition oriented? The iwarlock deals normal damage, much higher in power builds than in condition builds and chaos storm apply’s 2/3 (or 3/4 if you count daze causing vurnability as condition) conditions which deal 0 damage. They only get affected by condition duration, which power builds also can make profit from due immobilizes etc.
The AA also applies vurnability, which is mostly only usefull for power builds. That’s 1/3rd of the AA.
The weapon is supposed to be some sort of hybrid weapon obviously, though it’s based way too much on RNG and the AA scaling is very ‘’power-demoting’‘. I agree it’s a defensive weapon, but the changed I’ve listed wouldnt even increase the total damage so much. Sure AA becomes a little bit stronger, that’s about it?

Condition damage relies on DoT, so the mobility the Staff provides help you to survive whilst waiting for the damage to tick.

iWarlock deals damage normally, but its power scales to the conditions the enemies suffer.

And obviously, chaos storm gives out boons and conditions.

If it’s a power-oriented weapon, then obviously it will have some sort of burst akin to a power weapon, like the Guardian’s GS, Warrior’s GS, etc.

The burst is in iWarlock where it should be. Staff is more utility than conditions though since the #1 skill is the only skill that you can condi pressure with. The conditions Chaos Storm provides are strictly for utility, which is why the only one that does damage is poison and even that’s a short duration.

Seeing as how a condition or a power spec can benefit from utility; why is it that the power scaling for the #1 skill needs to stay so absurdly low? I honestly don’t think it should be by much, but raising the scaling doesn’t seem like a ridiculous request.

Hot Boy.7138:

And mesmer do have a role. It depends on how you build your character. My mesmer has a tank set and I’m pretty good at tanking. My mesmer also has a heal set and is pretty good at healing. I’m pretty good at spamming conditions if that’s what I want to do because I have a condition set also.

Well that kind of sums it up. We don’t want to just be “pretty good” at everything. Every class can do that. We want to excel at something that not all the other classes can do. What’s so fun about doing something any other class can do arguably better?

Hot Boy.7138:

edit: Well if i really think about it…. I would get rid of those two traits that increase illusions/phantasms damage by 15% each. It does seem a little cheesey since they are AI that attack passively. phantasms hit hard already on their own without those traits if you’re running bezerker gear.

So you’re saying that you want to reduce pve mesmers damage by 15%-30%. I’m not understanding why we need to be less useful in dungeons any more than we already are. We’re mostly just brought along for reflect utility and very little else. Trying to say it’s good for pvp isn’t entirely accurate because phantasms do damage relatively slowly, and they can get taken out pretty quickly once the aoe drops in team fights.

I think if Defiant had more of a rotational period instead of being just a constant buff, then we could instantly see some more interesting builds come out that aren’t strictly min-maxing.

Adding trinity roles won’t make pve more fun. If anything it will just assimilate it with every other mmo with just slightly different mechanics.

Xaylin.1860:

True. But the more important statement of my post is that it doesn’t improve the gameplay in any way. I just fail to see the benefit of a chain versus the current RNG AA. Ultimatively, it might even lower the damage output because you might have less access to Burning since it is bound to the third hit.

I actually agree that for the most part this wouldn’t be a huge improvement for us, but I think knowing what you can or can’t do is a good thing that you can coordinate a team or strategy around.

Also I think the exact opposite actually. If you can keep staff clones out it can end up being a lot of burst every 5 or so seconds because of staggered burning procs.

Well with you having permanent vigor, I don’t see why you even use SoE. You can always just create another clone to use ether feast for, which instantly makes it a better heal with a lower cd. Also your phantasms do far less damage than your shatters, so I don’t see why you would need to have any more phantasm uptime than the minimum amount.

Edit: the Disenchanter thing has been mentioned, but if you really want condi removal why not the mantra?

Well with you having permanent vigor, I don’t see why you even use SoE. You can always just create another clone to use ether feast for, which instantly makes it a better heal with a lower cd. Also your phantasms do far less damage than your shatters, so I don’t see why you would need to have any more phantasm uptime than the minimum amount.

KingZmaN.6473:

My mantra build isn’t “sub-standard”, just, one way to play in a game that propagates build diversity.

It’s actually by definition substandard seeing as how mantra builds aren’t the standard for pvp mesmers at all. Also the build diversity in this game is stifled by the impossible to counter mechanics that some classes have. That and bugs on abilities.

I think your build could benefit more from MoC instead of MoP, since having a stun break is a great way to reduce pressure put on you. I really wish we had an elite mantra though.

The more I’ve thought about it, the more I wouldn’t want this to be channeled, but the aoe either needs to be bigger or the boon strip should be more noticable. People hardly even use it for the boon strip, so I would even be fine with keeping the damage the same if that gets raised to compensate, and just make it like mind spike so it does extra damage with no boons on the target.

No one said the build is crap or that you’re stupid. People just insist on using condition builds in pve runs when it’s by far the inferior build. At least that’s all Pyro is trying to get across. Also people post pve condition builds here quite a bit and after a while you get tired of telling them that it’s not very good.

In WvW I think this build is fine. Actually a bit of a change from the regular PU condition build, to which I ask how well you survive without it since you seem to run full rabid instead of some dire.

Also, since you have traveler runes + the condi duration food having the condi duration maintenance oil is redundant and doesn’t do much for you after 50%. You’re better off with the tuning crystal imo.

Edit: I just noticed that this is a pve only build :X

I really need to pay more attention in the morning….but tuning crystal is still better btw.

You have basically 0 defenses, so I don’t know why you keep acting like you do. Also if a team decides to focus you, as they rightfully should, you have no way of preventing it from happening. I actually like the build, but I’m definitely not going to delude myself into thinking it’s good lol.

I knew this was another “stop trash talking in pvp” qq thread. Every game that has competitive pvp has a somewhat “toxic” community. If you can’t put up with it then mute people or don’t play. Whining about people harassing you over the Internet is what children do. :/