Guild Wars 2

Wasbunny.6531:

Raunchy.6891:

Wasbunny.6531:

Raunchy.6891:

Wasbunny.6531:

I think the solution would be to program the phantasms to start their attacks within the attack range. For example the phantasm starts attacking at 400 so even if walking away the target will be hit.

What about in pve where you want your phantasm to be at max range? This could result in staff phantasm being completely useless in pve scenarios.

I see your point. Since PvE mobs don’t run away for the most part possibly starting their attack at like 590 for a 600 max attack range. Whatever the numbers work out to when calculating the distance a mob/player could walk away at & the time the Phantasm takes to cast it’s ability plus the time for the projectile to travel the distance to the target.

The point being I guess just not having them stop at exactly max range to initiate the attack animation, thus one step backwards and the attack misses.

I just think if the animation goes off it should hit you unless you LoS it. Since we aren’t in control of when the phantasms attack, this would be the best way to handle it.

That would eliminate range restrictions entirely so is not really a workable solution.

Although it would be pretty funny seeing my iMage hitting an enemy dolyak from atop my keep’s walls.

EDIT: Oh wait I see what you’re saying. Remove the range restrictions on projectiles if successfully fired by the phantasm. But still, really unlimited range? And how would the bounces work?

I’m not saying remove them. I’m saying if the phantasm is in range to attack, and can fire that attack before the person is out of range, the projectile should still be able to hit that person unless they LoS the projectile with a wall or terrain.

I guess the argument could be that static field sets up a fight and doesn’t do damage while glamours can confusion bomb people pretty quickly.

I don’t think it’s a bad idea. I just don’t think it’s going to happen.

BlackDevil.9268:

@ Raunchy
Yeah.. looking another time at it I agree. Maybe 2 stacks though? I really feel depressed when i get 1 stack of vurnability.. :<

I think one stack is enough, because I don’t like gameplay centered around the #1 ability doing most of the work. Though I could see two stacks being fine. I agree though that one stack seems lackluster, but to me it’s supposed to be like that.

The staff #1 skill is supposed to keep pressure, not apply it (which I think all weapons should do, but that’s now how Anet made it). Of course you can apply pressure with it if you have multiple clones out with IE (or at least that’s the idea :/), but you would have to trait for that which is how it should be.

BlackDevil.9268:

Wind of Vurnability
Eventhough I’m no big fan for vurnability on the AA, I don’t see how this skill can’t become op the moment you take it away and put something else on it. To match it for power builds I’ve increased the amount of vurnability to 3 stacks up from 1.
Damage: 111 (1.000)?
Vulnerability 3 : 5 s
Number of bounces: 1
Range: 1,200

The only thing I would say is that this one is a little too much. Vulnerability actually matters a lot in high stacks, and this would allow people to stack insane amounts of it with ranged clones. Even sword clones can’t stack vulnerability this quickly and they’re supposed to be the best clones for it. With ranged clones, you would have to go out of your way to kill them or else you’ll get 15+stacks of vulnerability put on you in 5 seconds.

Other then that I like these ideas a lot.

Carighan.6758:

Yeah but I wouldn’t make the clones do anything. They’d appear to be doing things though, and quite well so, using utility skills, weapon skills, moving, dodging, everything. Only, none of it has any effect.

But, they would look much more perfect in appearing to be players.

That just seems really complicated to code though. You have to code every utility skill to be usable by AI, then you would have to code in prompts for when they would use it, unless they would just randomly cycle through abilities. I don’t know that just seems really complicated is all, and I’m not sure it would be better. After all you could still just see the numbers that pop up when the real mesmer hits you.

LordByron.8369:

The issue is that 7% is not transferring to phantasms themselves.
That is why i think eagles and pack are strong contenders.

Ah, I completely forgot that damage modifiers apply to personal damage only. If your crit is still above 55% I would say eagles, but if it’s not then I would suggest pack runes. Although having extra personal damage could be nice if it’s your preference.

Oh, then I would use those for sure in dungeons/fractals.

I would agree that daze mantra seems a little better for this build, but if you’re using MoC it’s going to be hard to manage sometimes. Also I really hate charging 3 mantras out of the gate. :p

For more supportive builds staff is usually the better choice, but you don’t really have anything that lowers phase retreats cd so I would run this build without it also.

For sigils I would run nullification or generosity. If you really want to strip boons hardcore, then nullification is perfect. Though it seems like this build is probably capable enough of that, so a little condi clear with generosity would work fine too.

This isn’t the right profession forum, just saying.

I’m not sure how well it works in WvW, but people in ToL were running 0/0/2/6/6, if that’s any help to you.

Edit: They really shouldn’t let you delete the first post of the thread, but not delete the thread entirely.

Do ranger runes actually activate on clones/phantasms now? I thought they didn’t.

Also Neurophen did some number crunching and found that pack runes are a good choice for us, with consistent damage output.

Carighan.6758:

At this point I think what would be interesting to balance us long term is to flip our class balance on it’s head by making Clones (and Phantasms) stronger, by making them more perfect, by in turn reducing our defence and damage, and seriously buffing up the shatters and maybe even replacing them.

I don’t know about that. People are pretty against AI dominant abilities from the start, and this sounds like it would only make those complaints valid. There are certain quality of life changes that need to be made, like ways to produce a good amount of clones without DE, or builds that can be used without relying entirely on clone/phantasm production. These types of things could definitely make our class more diverse, but I’m not so sure they will ever happen.

I prefer Blink over Mirror Images, but that’s just a preference thing. I would definitely put doom into your sword instead of intelligence. Undead runes are pretty much the best ones for us too. That and they synergize with the Chaos GM minor trait.

skcamow.3527:

I’ve also thought maybe it should be a flat 20% diversion recharge reduction versus requiring the interrupt proc, but wouldn’t mind either.

Ok, this. I want this to happen. Anet I’m begging.

Wasbunny.6531:

Raunchy.6891:

Wasbunny.6531:

I think the solution would be to program the phantasms to start their attacks within the attack range. For example the phantasm starts attacking at 400 so even if walking away the target will be hit.

What about in pve where you want your phantasm to be at max range? This could result in staff phantasm being completely useless in pve scenarios.

I see your point. Since PvE mobs don’t run away for the most part possibly starting their attack at like 590 for a 600 max attack range. Whatever the numbers work out to when calculating the distance a mob/player could walk away at & the time the Phantasm takes to cast it’s ability plus the time for the projectile to travel the distance to the target.

The point being I guess just not having them stop at exactly max range to initiate the attack animation, thus one step backwards and the attack misses.

I just think if the animation goes off it should hit you unless you LoS it. Since we aren’t in control of when the phantasms attack, this would be the best way to handle it.

There isn’t. It’s unfortunate too.

I think not enough people take CD because they think BI is too good or something. I used CD in a recent GS/Staff lockdown build and it was glorious. Every time I ended my GS rotations Chaos Storm was either off cd or close to it. Also the amount of kiting I could do against thieves was hilarious. I only wish I could have traited illusionists celerity to make it even more troll.

Wasbunny.6531:

I think the solution would be to program the phantasms to start their attacks within the attack range. For example the phantasm starts attacking at 400 so even if walking away the target will be hit.

What about in pve where you want your phantasm to be at max range? This could result in staff phantasm being completely useless in pve scenarios.

I really like Pyro’s suggestion. It opens up pve builds a bit too seeing as how they changed our traits so abruptly.

I actually really want something similar done to Imbued Diversion like skcamow suggested. Actually it’s like he read my mind lol. My only thing is that it could conflict with Illusionary Invigoration, but I guess that could be a weakness of picking it.

Edit: Also I personally think Wastrel’s Punishment should actually be Power Block, but I’m 100% sure that will never happen.

Yeah, I agree with Chaos Armor needing to be buffed.

Overall, it’s still a fine weapon, but the projectile speed of everything needs to be buffed slightly so it’s not so ridiculously slow.

We have good cc, but it’s not on long durations because of how bursty our class can be. My only complaint is that we have less aoe control options than single target. Shutting one person down is all well and good, but that won’t always win you a team fight. Also I think CI should only apply chilled. You could debate blind should stay, but chilled has a more noticeable effect. Also we need traits to make interrupting a little more punishing/rewarding. It’s just a hard thing to balance.

Overall I would say lockdown specs are close to being very formidable, but the near immunity thieves have against it hold us back.

Neurophen.9738:

The damage bonus from criting is much higher than 7%. With runes of the pack you’ll have 70% crit rate whenever fury procs. Maybe more with different sigils.

That’s true, but with our low access to fury it’s not consistent enough. You can pretty much always have 6+ stacks of might on you, but you can’t always have fury on you. So although the crit damage is higher, the amount of overall damage you get from Strength runes is more consistent, and I believe it will result in more damage.

I’m still going to experiment with it though, since you’ve shown that it’s worth trying out. Thanks for that.

I don’t see how Rune of the Pack even contends with the other two. Having good stats is fine, but damage modifiers are always better if you can keep the modifier up consistently.

Also, the damage modifiers not affecting phantasms isn’t a big deal in a shatter build. Your shatters do most of the damage, and a 5% or 7% increase to that makes a big difference, especially when you crit.

Spurnshadow.3678:

It isn’t working as intended.

Ok so I’ll just refer you here.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Mesmer-s-Bugged-Skills-Not-Updated-Anymore/first
Whether you like it or not, it is working as intended. They’re thinking about reworking it since so many of us think they changed it in a terrible way, but until then this is how they wanted it to be.

Spurnshadow.3678:

So what happened? They nerfed confusion damage by 50%. That’s not a nerf bat, that’s a kitten sledgehammer. Just some arbitrary number, but it nearly killed the class for a lot of players.

So, are they going to do something with Mind Stab? I doubt it. Not unless a dev just happens to have a secret kitten for the skill.

It was more than just the confusion nerf. They also changed how Blinding Befuddlement worked, which is a big deal.

What do you mean they aren’t going to do something about Mind Stab? We got a red post for the first time in forever stating that they want to change it, and people are making tons of suggestions. How could they not do something about it now?

Spurnshadow.3678:

Just look at my signature.

I’ll agree that Anet has been slow to change a lot of things but they did say Temporal Curtain is working as intended.

@Neurophen
I don’t think we need any more in – combat mobility. Also that would take away from GS having risks because it has no mobility.

@Xaylin
I’m not seeing how having a blast finisher would make GS a must have weapon for us. In WvW I’m sure it would be very much welcomed, but blast finishers aren’t a big part of spvp. I’m not sure about pve but there can’t be too many moments when you can group and spam finishers often.

BlackDevil.9268:

Raunchy.6891:

Tbh I don’t want scepter to be a condi weapon only. The reason that its numbers are so high in both is because Anet wanted it to be a clone making weapon primarily, and since both condi and power specs can benefit from that that’s why the weapon scales the way it does. All I really want to see happen is the 3rd auto chain be a bit faster, and Counter Spell be less of a useless move. Anything else is too much to me.

I get that mostly condition specs use this weapon, but the only reason more power specs don’t is because of how slow the damage is from it, not because it does poor damage. I want this to remain a hybrid weapon, but I just want it to be a better one.

I fail to understand your argument…
Why would it be a ‘’clone generation’’ weapon if:
1. The last skill of scepter chain is easy to dodge and often fails to hit.
2. The weapon only has 2 ways of spawning clones which are on either a skill much higher cd than phase retreat and 2nd is on an auto attack that does no conditions, is 1 clone every 2 seconds max and deals 30% less damage than sword does?

Also another thing, if arenanet didn’t want scepter as condition weapon primarily, then why did they take away the part where scepter block did a decent amount of spike damage and replaced it with conditions?

The auto attack being easy to dodge doesn’t change its original purpose. It’s meant for clone generation, and as such it has the highest clone generation then that of any of our weapons. Plus if someone is actually going to waste endurance to dodge ether blast then I would call that a win.

Also 2 ways of spawning a clone is more than any of our other MH weapon options, and comparing anything to MH sword is going to be less dps so I don’t see the point in even going down that road.

I don’t particularly know why the scepter riposte was changed. It could have been that they wanted us to have access to torment, but didn’t have another way to do it without completely changing how another weapon skill works, who knows. Can you tell me though why the aa and #3 scale so well with power though?

Tbh I don’t want scepter to be a condi weapon only. The reason that its numbers are so high in both is because Anet wanted it to be a clone making weapon primarily, and since both condi and power specs can benefit from that that’s why the weapon scales the way it does. All I really want to see happen is the 3rd auto chain be a bit faster, and Counter Spell be less of a useless move. Anything else is too much to me.

I get that mostly condition specs use this weapon, but the only reason more power specs don’t is because of how slow the damage is from it, not because it does poor damage. I want this to remain a hybrid weapon, but I just want it to be a better one.

Trying a lockdown build in spvp with a more defensive amulet and I don’t know which one to choose. Knights, Barbarian, or Soldier? Soldier seems like the best choice to me so far, but I feel like critting would keep the damage in the range that I want it to be in. So which of these would be the best choice for us?

Edit: Or even Celestial seems decent.

I would much rather be a control type of class. Dictating how fights go because we can greatly limit the options of our opponents. CI+Power Block is a good start, but we need a couple more minor traits to flesh out lockdown capabilities, and we would probably need a bit more reliable cc methods with our weapons (preferably aoe). I don’t think we’re very far off from having a very intimidating lockdown build, but the fact that our lockdown is greatly less effective against thieves is what makes it such a non-starter. Having such a hard counter, that is already a squishy killer is impossible to work around.

As far as PVE goes, Defiant kind of threw out any form of lockdown in that mode. I don’t even know how to make mesmers more desirable in dungeons/fractals.

I think the riposte animations are fine. They could be reduced by 1/4 of a second though to make them easier to land on skilled opponents.

Counter Blade is the best part about OH sword to me. I used to use it a lot in my lockdown builds, focus just has more aoe capabilities is all. The missile speed of it should be increased though, because at longer ranges it’s so easy to dodge since it’s a line aoe.

Counter Spell is useless. The trade off for using it is staggeringly uneven with the riposte effects and that needs to change. I like the chill idea. We don’t really have reliable access to it so I would really like that.

Well, numbers wise it has the 2nd highest burst we can have in a power build. Not to mention the massive range it has, along with semi reliable aoe damage. It’s just an all around good weapon for power builds. MH sword is still our best option for max dps, but GS gives us a lot more ranged options.

Well what are you doing in WvW? If you’re roaming, then I’m a fan of the 2/4/6/2/0 PU build for survivability. For zergs I’m much less knowledgeable as to what people need mesmers for.

a t s e.9614:

Hambow is not even close to being good in 1v1, any player with half a brain should dodge most of the huge hammer telegraphs. Get your facts right before posting. I switched the hammer for a great sword because I realized hambow only works against terribads.

If you’re using it correctly, it’s actually quite hard to deal with. You have to bait out dodges and then go for the cc. That or you use hammer #4 like you have a brain instead of using it right when you walk up to someone since that move comes out fast and isn’t super easy to evade.

I don’t understand why people think 1v1s should be balanced. You don’t nerf things based on 1v1 pvp situations because that’s not what the game is based around. Thinking otherwise is selfish and actually pretty dumb. Also if you cleave less it’s actually not hard to fight a PU mesmer. Just use a single target weapon. If you don’t have one then don’t complain, the build excels against aoe damage.

Also OP, even if it’s not a shatter build it’s still good to throw in shatters. Shatters give you more options defensively and offensively so dismissing them completely is a bad idea. Especially since you don’t really have enough phantasm traits to make this a good phantasm build and you have high enough power to make Mind Wrack hit for decent damage. Using all the tools given to you will just make your overall play style better too. Just my thoughts.

It’s a glass PU build people. Stop trying to turn it into something it’s not. Invis+boons don’t make you some unkillable creature. He wanted survivability with his glassy setup and picked PU. If he gets cc’d he dies just as fast as a zerker shatter mesmer or zerker anything for that matter.

I haven’t had much issues with damage. I’ve just been having trouble dodging condition spam. It takes more managing for meaningful burst is all, nbd.

I realized that after I posted. Now I feel dumb lol.

Why does Phase Retreat still say that it’s a 1,200 range leap when it’s not? Not a big deal, but it’s misleading is all.

DiogoSilva.7089:

1. More boon removal would make it more effective at its niche only. For most of PvE’s content, where there aren’t (many) boons to remove, Mind Stab would remain yet another damage skill. However, increasing boon removal to 2 would be really cool for a trait’s effect. Add that to greatsword training, replacing it over +50 power. Players love exciting/ creative traits, and mesmer already has some very good examples (torch cleansing, focus reflection). Add this to Greatsword Training.

This.

Also I agree that #4 sounds like a really nice change.

The scoreboard has always been bad, because the point system is inherently flawed. It should have always been a board to check stats (condition/direct damage dealt, boons given, points capped/decapped) rather than who has the most points. It’s so laughably easy to rack points up you don’t even know who’s underperforming on your team. If you did you could at least give them advice along the way.

For what game mode? wvw/pve?

I would consider Blink over Decoy. Other then that it’s not a bad build. Also Moa isn’t a bad thing to test out either. I’m a fan of Time Warp though.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Full stop. Pyro please remove yourself and preferably your comments from this thread. You have a right be upset with anet. But you do not have a right to bring that caustic attitude to new players, especially given how hard you try to contribute to the mesmer community.

I’m sure it has a little less to do with Anet and a little more to do with the fact that we’ve been seeing ‘mesmer op’ threads ever since the patch and when they post here about it where we have actual discussions about our class it takes away from that. Which gets annoying.

Another helpful guide for people looking to get into team queues. Thanks Django.

jportell.2197:

Raunchy.6891:

Daishi.6027:

6500 is be the average of a phantasm build’s izerker (5k + 30%) I haven’t noticed being hit super hard by any phants tho.

Anyways I’m cool with it being fixed, but can shatter please get a buff? Lol

Shatter isn’t really in need of a buff. It could use minor tweaking with a couple traits but other then that it’s fine. Just a bit of the burst from other classes, namely thieves, needs to be toned down. Or at least introduce some more counterplay to it.

Not really thieves are still having a hard time even remotely touching some other classes… And the shatter combo is so predictable that it’s kind of hard to get it off against any decent player…. At least with backstab there is some element to surprise… but shatter… not really.

It’s nice when other people realize the weaknesses of a shatter build. I hate hearing how “broken” shatter combos are when you have to be pretty much standing still for any of it to hit.

Anyways, which classes would those be? I know they have trouble against off guards and engis but I don’t see any other classes being a big threat. Maybe s/s condi wars.

Daishi.6027:

6500 is be the average of a phantasm build’s izerker (5k + 30%) I haven’t noticed being hit super hard by any phants tho.

Anyways I’m cool with it being fixed, but can shatter please get a buff? Lol

Shatter isn’t really in need of a buff. It could use minor tweaking with a couple traits but other then that it’s fine. Just a bit of the burst from other classes, namely thieves, needs to be toned down. Or at least introduce some more counterplay to it.

Carighan.6758:

PU Mesmers
These are only overpowered in 1v1 situations. Now before you see that as me agreeing with anything, do keep in mind that the devs have not created a 1v1 mode, and in fact both PvP modes and the combat system itself want you to not do 1v1.
So while PU might be too strong, it baffles me that players apparently have issues with this. Especially in sPvP.

This guy gets it. PU is a mostly a roaming spec that has a lot of dominance 1v1 and not with much else. Good people can make it work in a team setting but it’s no better than any other mesmer spec (at least in spvp). People in WvW focus too much on 1v1 and roaming. The game isn’t balanced around that and never will be. Also it’s laughably useless in zergs, which is pretty much how you win in WvW.

Neurophen.9738:

Looking at the boons granted it feels like BD would be better for a power build:

F1 -> Retaliation which scales on power
F2 -> Might which is that’s nice for both
F3 -> Fury which is much nicer for a power build
F4 -> Regen is good for both

If BD had been in dueling then perhaps it would have been viable. A build might be power shatter with 2/6/0/4/0/6. Anet doesn’t seem to want to promote power shatter which I suppose is why BD is not in dueling.

Well it’s mostly that they don’t want power shatter to generate too many boons without giving up damage for it. There was already a large outcry when they buffed shattered strength and we could keep around 20 stacks of might on us always. Power shatter only needs a couple tweaks to make it a very dominant build so Anet is careful with trait placement because of that.

Bacon.4918:

Hyung.6140:

plenty of other mesmers like Pyro had tested their phantasms and found no unusual damage.

Yes those people did a great job testing damage… Took me all of five minutes to notice phantasm damage was out of line of my mesmer.

To be fair I’m pretty sure Pyro tested phantasm damage on golems and not in actual matches.