Guild Wars 2

Spirigo.2897:

I found myself winning matches, and actually get top score without killing a thing! Crazy right? This shouldn’t happen.

Lol no it’s alrigtht.

Bunker mesmer ? Dat troll . . .
Play banner bunker if you want to bunker.

Some of us are hostile because we want PvErs to go back PvE.
If you have the soul of a PvP player you shouldn’t be affected by this hostility just work on improving your skills. Search builds, read tutos, ask for advice to PvPers in game.
With custom arena’s it’s now a lot easier to teach people, provided they want to learn…

PS: PvErs =/= beginner in PvP

My two cents,
Interesting on paper but makes mesmer more dependent on AI and ranger has told me it’s overall a bad idea.

LordByron.8369:

Nobody told anything about prestige….

Your prestigious farmed ranks are no different.

What changes is the effort needed.

You want pve staff for free but you don t want to give up PvP stuff in Exchange… easy as that.

I don’t see your point, mind being clearer? ? ? ?

What PvP stuff do I not want to give up ? Everything has been sold out lol.
- Ranks are easily farmable now thanks to PvErs whining.
- Wardrobe is shared in PvE/PvP and this as been favorable to PvErs.

Right now everything (but rank) you get in PvP you can get in PvE while you cannot get legendaries in PvP as you need map completion and this is fair enough.

Fractal reward track need to be added for things to be fair.

PS : Please develop your argument about “effort needed” this will probably makes things interesting

Why are you talking about skins/fractal prestige ?
Rank/Skin had prestige in PvP and probably more than your fractal skins and look at what the wardrobe changes did. You used to pay token to participate in rakned games and now you have PvErs doing soloQ. . .
At this point I see no reason for you to keep your ‘PvE elitists skins’ to yourselves.
Fractal reward track need to be added.

^ sources plz ?

^This
/15 chars

I’m with sorrow on this one.
getting good skin in PvP was “end game” before wardrobe changes. Now your average PvErs can come in PvP with their legendaries.
There is no reason why fractals skins should stay PvE exclusive at this point.
Get over it !

Chase.8415:

Chilli.2976:

Why should their servers do this then? I have not physically raged or DC’d from a match, that has resulted me not been able to join again in the last 2 months.

This just happened, as appears to be the luck of the draw! I’m currently PvEing which I hate!

Plus the timer was still counting down before the tournament even started!

Then swapping characters is not what caused it. I have swapped characters several times mid match and never got dishonored.

Also this debuff clearly states only you are restricted from rated matches. You can still hot join, stop being overdramatic.

^ You can still hotjoin ! ! ! ! ! !

Rofl, that lack of empathy.

@OP
Your ‘truth’ seems pretty selfish to me.
I guess I should push some PvErs in teamQ and /laugh when quality games disappear form teamQ ?

@ OP

If we are talking about PvP then it’s just a L2P issue.
In some guilds you are not even allowed to take a Mesmer in tPvP in the same way you can’t play a Ranger in most serious WvW guilds outside of roaming.

If you are talking about WvW it’s also a L2P issue
Let’s be honest shout Guardians can’t solo kill any good roamer build played by … a decent player. It’s simply too slow this as nothing to do with stealth or clones :
Warrior ~unkillable -> fight reset if you get the upper hand.
Engineers ~unkillable -> fight reset if you get the upper hand.
Theif ~unkillable -> fight reset if you get the upper hand.
Ele ~unkillable -> fight reset if you get the upper hand.
Mesmer ~unkillable -> fight reset if you get the upper hand.
But anyway you can’t get the upper hand.

Finally,

Mesmers are too powerful in certain situations but people use the l2p card to cover there opness and even if i dont usually use a strict 1vs1 build (i use shouts instead of meditations most time) i still deserve a chance to fight back than getting steamrolled by a class that its full of dirty tactics.

Really ? I was under the illusion Ranger had no place in organized WvW group. And also, Engineers, Thieves, Mesmer got marginal roles while the meta is 80% Warriors + Guardians.
+ Guardians have the best PvP bunker/support builds.
Thank you. Now I know guardians “are too powerful in certain situations”.
The time to nerf them as come.

/cry
T T you got me.

/dance
Yay at last !

“New trait’s” != “Buff”
Yes you have to chose. The trait may actually be good for builds that are not played and will come to shine the new meta happens. We don’t even know all the planed changes yet.
I guess complaining makes people feel good

Just saying ,
“Thieves are diving away damage dealer” doesn’t mean they are OP, It means they are toxic in term of build/class diversity that’s all.
Now how do you change this ? Nerf ? Rework ?

Simon.3794:

PU mesmer is officially banned in 1v1 and called as cancer, which is agreed by all top players even the veteran mesmers are against this cancer build, it has nothing to do with losing to it and no, we can not kill it doesnt mean we will die and lose to it, nor like we can’t beat it (we can), i think a random PvDoor hero like you must be greater then all top PvP players combined together to be able to say stuff like that. too skilled, much wow

Bunker build/amulet are banned in 1v1 and despite investing 40 pt in offensives trait-lines and using berserker amulet PU builds still falls in bunker category. PU being banned from 1v1 do not prove that it is OP or a cancer as you call it.

Excellent Thread !
You describe pretty well how balance should be done.
Now let’s hope this thread can get things to move in the right direction.

Galsia.4102:

If this post was made in the first two months after release you’d have a point. However, this is 2014, the Whirling Axe with evasion is long gone, and what’s left is one of the least useful stolen abilities; nothing says, “please kill me,” like a 3.5sec channeled attack on a glass cannon build.

Also, you sold yourself short on Warrior counters:

GS#5 in a different direction.
GS#4 through Thief, dealing damage to him while receiving none yourself.
Shield#4 interrupt.
Shield #5 block.
Sword#2 in a different direction.
Sword#F1 + evade.
Mace#3 interrupt.
Mace#F1 interrupt.
Hammer#4 interrupt.
Hammer#5 interrupt.
Hammer#F1 interrupt.
Rifle#5 interrupt.
Utility: Kick interrupt.
Utility: Bull’s Rush interrupt/in a different direction.
Utility: Stomp interrupt.
Utility: Fear Me interrupt.
Utility: Endure Pain receive no damage.
Trait: Defense/XI: Endure Pain receive no damage.

And lastly, the most OP counter of all:

W, A, S, D.

Seriously, just walk out of it.

Would have just made an L2P post but everything has been said here xD.

Thanks for the tips Eldenbri ^^
I’ll try it this weekend !

Diablo.1384:

selan.8354:

ohh but btw we got something that could maybe be a good sign…anet posted:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/About-mesmer/first#post3683757

“Nice stuff” im guessing a total ‘Mimic’ revamp… their idea of good never seems to be my idea of good

Yeah,
Coming from people that wanted to nerf DE “nice stuff” could actually mean a nerf :s

Yeah, well done
Btw how do you get that image quality on Youtube ( encoding and such…) ? My videos get heavily “nerfed” when I post them T T.

Now I realize I was off topic in my previous post (like some of us)

@kaikalii.4198
You can try the :
20/20/30/0/0 Staff / GS build and trade PU for Boontifull interuption to begin.
Then slowly remove points from Chaos to invest them in other trait lines. This will essentially make the build more “glass like” (more damages / less “tankiness”) exept if you go for inspiration…

Lest’s start with some fatcs :

Analysis of PU impact :

Stealth duration

A full stealth mesmer (decoy , veil , torch, mass invisibility with torch traited) can stay stealthed about 29.50% of time.

With PU 38.22% of the time. Global stealth duration increase 29.49%.

The most ‘stealthy’ skills are The Prestige (12% without PU 16% with PU) followed by Decoy (7.5% without PU and 10% with PU) and get a +33% increase from PU.

Now PU boon contribution :

Right actually forgot the “number of boons applied” mulitiplier+
The Prestige : 4 every 25 secs
Decoy : 4 every 40 sec
Mass invisibility : 6 every 90 sec
Veil : 5 every 90 sec

The Prestige + Decoy = One boon every 15 3.84 sec in average.
And one boon every 11.5 2.61 sec with all skills.

Now Boon applied by PU last at least 3.9sec since you have 30 pt in Chaos.
PU boon contribution = +1 random boon (protection regeneration ageis) 34% 149% (perma 1.5 boon)
of time with all skills.
And 26%101,5% of time if you just use Decoy and The Prestige.

My conclusion :
The skills that make PU “OP” are definitely The Prestige and Decoy if both are used in the same build.

Different builds using PU

“Passive” condition builds
Is definitenly lame :
You can stay stealthed about 40% of time meaning about 100% effective stealth since you have to attack from time to time anyway. This gives people an impression (is this just an impression ?) that they never get to target and attack you which effectively contribute to “harming mesmer reputation”.

PU Power Builds with torch :
More active than condition builds stealth is used to heal/ lower pressure in crital moments or run away (basically like a thief). BUT using both The Prestige and Decoy makes it a little lame as long as we are talking of 1v1 situations (same impression of I cant target this guy when I need to).

Now PU Power builds with just Decoy and mass invisibility
(Satff/GS for exemple )
Seems pretty Ok to me.
Stealth only 16.67% of the time.
Get a boon every 6 sec for 3.9 sec -> boon coverage 65% of time.

In the end
While PU is strong the skill making it “OP” is clearly The Prestige. A resonable increase of it’s cd Should be enough of a nerf… But this would hurt other builds. On the other hand nerfing PU (depending on the way it’s done) will also hurt fine builds..

Not everything is black or white and balancing is rarely easy…

Edit :

1-Adding the number of boon applied multiplier just make prestige looks more powerfull.

2-I used the traited prestige because most "bad PU " users trait it while not traiting decoy (maybe I’m wrong ). Anyway Prestige is still better untraited vs traited decoy.

3-Effectively, the shorter the cd the Better the PU boost. But I wanted to stress that traits like PU are strong in a context and never alone. (PU with 0 stealth skills does absolutely nothing) so balancing can involve both changing this context and/or the trait.
Modifying PU can impact other builds that are ok right now and dont need to be nerfed (also “anti-PU faction” see it all black) as changing the context would prolly nerf other builds .
Who is deciding what build should suffer from (and not be balanced by) a nerf ? That was the point.

4-In the end we agree nefing Prestige is not a solution.

Staff can be used for power builds as well (phantasm deals it’s share of dmg) and chaos storm is one our best defensive/offensice skill…
I don’t want to lose the vulnerability.

Dan.4398:

Redg.9807:

No buff needed. It’s one of the longest whirl finisher in the game…
If you dont know ho to use it I can’t do anything for you.

Redg.9807:

Kratos.6293:

Redg.9807:

No buff needed. It’s one of the longest whirl finisher in the game…
If you dont know ho to use it I can’t do anything for you.

How is it being long a good thing ?

^ Cyclone axe (axe 2) is also a whirl finisher but dont last long. Try using both in a combo field and surely you will see the difference.

From the sounds of this you seem to have not tested it as whirling axe is still a bugged whirl finisher and will only throw out one bolt at the end of the attack. I have just before writing this message tested it in pve, pvp and wvw and received the same results each time.

A while since I used the skill so actually tested it again after I read your post and you are right.
But well, then the skill needs bug fix not buff.

They should add /nerf @ class and /nerfed @ class really

More seriously, I play Mesmer/Warrior/Guardian in PvP/WvW (I do like one dung every month) and yes I think Warrior need a nerf at laest in PvP.
Now, I’m not sure how much time it will take but warriors are definitely going to get nerfed.
If you guys want to avoid an overnerf you better activelly take part in the nerfing process as this will give you credit when the time to oppose abusive requests come.
Keep it cool, try answearing QQ posts with exemples figures and videos and everything should be ok. On the other hand “L2P posts” and “Go troll elsewhere posts” can only backfire on you as they just keep feeding the rage.

Kratos.6293:

Redg.9807:

No buff needed. It’s one of the longest whirl finisher in the game…
If you dont know ho to use it I can’t do anything for you.

How is it being long a good thing ?

^ Cyclone axe (axe 2) is also a whirl finisher but dont last long. Try using both in a combo field and surely you will see the difference.

I think portals needs some change, but not this one.
I dont want enemies to know the direction of my portals exit/entrance, people just shouldn’t a take portal if they dont know where it will get them…

No buff needed. It’s one of the longest whirl finisher in the game…
If you dont know ho to use it I can’t do anything for you.

Osicat.4139:

Ofc its viable, in the sens it can kill ppl and it can be played. Is it the best possible spec then for wvwvw? In this I have to say no as long it is about roaming. Shatter is not the “best” spec for roaming, solo or in group. It can be forced to work ofc by a good player as it deal heavy dmg.

I Played shatter for roaming sens the release of the game about, even have some builds I fellt was close to pefect. The biggets changes form then to now is:

1 – changes to sword blurred frenzy
2 – Changes to enemy skills offensive and defensive

Pyroatheist.9031:

Take a look at Vashury’s videos if you’re trying to learn shatter burst. He runs very glassy burst builds in WvW roaming, and his techniques and playstyle allow him to pull of burst that’s just plain disgusting. Watch this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3fUhFuUP-E

Yes ofc you can deal heavy dmg, but do this deffine a good roamer build? No in my oppinon it dont. Why a thief is so good for roaming is cause you can choose you battles, not cause you can win every single fight. If you endup in a situation were you loosing/cant win in romaing (witch you always will) a good roamer build let you withdraw from battle and dissapear/outrun enemys.

What do you do as a shatter mesmer if you midfight with a engi get attacked by a skilled condi warrior and a BS theif? 9/10 you endup dead. As PU as long you play well you stealth, use 1200 blink restealth and get away.

^This.

For solo players shatter build means :
- strong in 1v1.
- good @ destroying a few noobs.
- Sure to die vs a few skilled oponnent.
- Sure to die if a zerg is arround.

Now we are talking about WvW, what do you think happens the most ?
But if you play with thieves and/or other mesmers (1 or 2 with PU) that’s another story.

Lol, for real ?
People really like to hate thieves…
You guys are complaining about thieves stomps ? Wrong target
As a mesmer I got invneralble stomp, stealth stomp, interrupt-allies-res stomp and TP-stomp for thieves if I guess where they are going to teleport…
Only eles and mesmers can escape my wrath and you are talking about thieves xD

Hey there !
First I would like to thank balrog.1307 for opening this thread. I was depressed but now I feel so elated after reading what you guys wrote xD.
Now balrog, please, hear my advice : Enjoy and don’t listen to any of us. See the truth for yourself !

PS: Don’t read threads related to game balance be it PvE or PvP… you would not understand them or perhaps you would xD.