Guild Wars 2

I have the clockwork node in my home instance and mine it every day. its how people are still producing it to this point >.< People still produce and sell the armor. Although its easiest to make it yourself if you can.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATRnUqQFL2wCuCCXLGoPoW/ABwYzKDeftpxaPgH-TlCEABPpkTPdBOpcggLAgBHCAiPCANt/gnq/AwDAwQlgAA-w

Actually I might have managed to get it to work. heres hoping

Edit: It might be better to just use a full zealots setup. The conversion from healing power to power really shows up at the higher numbers. I prefer to keep just a little toughness though if I need time to get one of the heals off and im being bursted.

Can I get your build? I’d love to see what you have setup and I’ve been looking for a decent BM build for a while.[/quote]

Im afraid that due to issues on my side using the standard build website is currently a no go for me. But I can atleast type it out

I generally run zealots gear with assassin’s weapons. Either sword axe/longbow or GS/Longbow. I have a set using ranger runes for PvE and a set using water runes in wvw. Generally I use HAO or Troll ungeant. (with the water rune proc HAO becomes as MASSIVE heal in a 62006 setup)

My utilities are (again USUALLY) Signet of the wild, signet of stone, and sic-em
In marksmanship I have signet mastery, eagle eye, and either RTW or Predators onslaught depending on the situation and what im trying to do.

My skirmishing trait is always companions might.

Beast mastery is where I tend to diverge a bit.

In PvP Ill usually go with Masters bond (stacks very quickly in tpvp and generally quite quickly in wvw as well.) turns a fern hound into a juggernaut but makes pet swapping an issue. In situations where pets are SURE to die ill just grab mighty swap.

If the group doesn’t have a support person ill usually grab commanding voice for shorter f2 cooldown as my second. If im only worried about performance ill grab speed training instead for shorter attack cooldowns (many a thief have been one shot by a suprise knockdown leap that crits with 25 stacks of masters bond signet of hte wild proc AND sic em all active at the same time. Not to mention any might stacks. it hits like an effing truck.)

Finally ill always have invigorating bond. This makes keeping a fern hound alive outside of massive oh kitten moments EXTREMELY easy (making fern hound probably the best pet for masters bond trait. The fact that its an aoe heal as well for the group as well as an aoe small heal + regen with a fern hound is amazing. With reduce cooldown you can combine the howl and HAO to both go off at once. Either causing a massive heal (HAO+Water rune proc+Regen Howl+Invigorating bond) or if you or the pet get ccd youl still 99% of the time get 2 of those four heals going off. Making having your heals negated much less likely)

Rauderi.8706:

Shadelang.3012:

…when my fern hound is eating mordrem face.

Cannibal! T_T
I kid, I kid.

I do have to say I like my beast ranger. Learning to work with a pet keeps the game from being a “spam 111” snooze. I find with shortbow that I pay attention to the field more because my position matters. At the same time, I hardly ever get hit, because even when my less survivable pets are out, they do quite well.

AI still sucks, and if WoW was any indication, it will for at least another 4-6 years. =P

Well I originally wanted to teach it to eat meat. However there was an incident…And now my party is short one asura (heheheheh)

What does esports have to do with anything said? You think title’s only have worth to the people that own them in an esports environment? Get real mate.

Title’s have prerequisites to own. If you fall outside of that prerequisite then move on. It’s not always about skill or pvp. Sometimes titles go out for loyalty to them game or being there during a difficult time or test phase in the game.

If you don’t meet the prereqs then just move on. Or is there some reason you HAVE TO HAVE this one specific title you apparently don’t qualify for o.O

I play a 6-2-0-0-6 Zealots ranger. Using a fern hound I don’t have any trouble keeping it up and it does a rather massive chunck of damage as well. If you invest in the pet it becomes very worth having. But if you ignore it. Yeah it’s gunna be sub par. At that point your abandoning part of the class to focus on another no duh the abandoned part is gonna be weak.

If you make a build that takes the pet into equal account as your weapon. Youl find that the synergy between you and the pet gets ALOT better. Also realizing that a bird or a cat aren’t the best solution to everything just cause they hit harder. There fine in a stand and shoot scenario. But in combat with a plethora of aoes your gonna either want to bring “Guard” or something similar to keep it alive if you decide to bring a squishy pet for the damage.

I’ve seen alot of rangers complain about there pets when they somehow magically expect they can bring the glassiest pet for damage only and somehow be in the right to kitten about it when a mob wacks it. Not saying bringing glassy pets is bad. But if you bring one…don’t trait into its survivability at all, and don’t use a utility slot to account for your choice. Then you are actually CHOOSING to have your pet dead just because you don’t want to be bothered with it. And im gonna laugh at you when I see you running around with a dead animal when my fern hound is eating mordrem face.

Usually rewards granted to long term/original players STAY with the long term/original players. Limited time/supply rewards are a big part of this. One of the things to remember is that if they took your suggestion kitten near everyone in the game would have that title…Making it nearly worthless. A title that everyone has looses all meaning. Especially in a game as cosmetic driven as this one is.

There is one thing I forgot to mention as far as PvE goes. In dungeons were suboptimal atm. Our damage is fairly set in stone. And as necros we dont bring anything unique.

However in the new open world pve areas MMancers are…pretty kitten amazing. Namely the new silverwaste area. It actually feels like the kind of battlefield my MM necro was designed for. Lots of mobs dieing=lots of jagged horrors(I can usually maintain 3-4) and life force. And our rather awesome ability are large area soft cc and debilitation (weakness bombs all over the place as well as some really well supplied condi transfers) makes us able to fight 7-8 mordrem at once. Ive often soloed a gate defense during sieges because everyone else was on the other side of the keep with little to no trouble.

Good to see theres still people looking to try MM. I can atleast give ya my thoughts on it.

Short Answer: Yes

Long Answer: Yes with catches. Itl take alot of effort from you in any non 1v1 scenario.

To start with the standard MM build (40640) is a 1v1 focused build. Designed mostly for PvP or open world PvE. Tankiness and selfsustain with outscourced sustain and damage. The necro himself acts as a meat shield and control bot for his pets. Probably the closest thing ive found to an attrition playstyle. It becomes a game of who can outlast who. Do you get whittle down or do your minions whittle him down. MMs are strong at this becuase of a necros liberal access to poison/chill/immobilize.

Fighting as an MM in a 1v1 you as the MM will know very early on how the fight is going to go. In fact youl probably know before your opponent does which gives you more time to prepare.

The issue for MMancers is in the group fighting scenarios. Ill be blunt. Most MM players ive met simply CANNOT handle group fighting. They train themselves to dominate in 1v1 situations and are easily blindsided and focused down. So if your gonna start a MM make sure not to fall into that trap.

One method is to keep some of your sustain away from your minions. I run a 4-0-6-0-4 build instead of hte standard vampiric method. Focusing on death shroud maintenance and the use of life blast for a more reliable damage source. Using the minions primarily as burst and control tools. Since im not fully invested in the minions I can contribute more readily to group fighting. And since my survivability is less outside of my characters control I can react more reliably when I start to become focused (this is especially good in WvW since life force is in excess supply)

This is from the perspective of someone that WvW’s with a minion mancer/DS hybrid usually in a group of 8-10 people.

Hope this gives ya an idea or two. Theres alot more id LIKE to type but im short on time. If ya have any questions theres several experienced necros that can lend ya some advice.

Can’t tell ya how many times I get that on my MM/DS necromancer. I get kitten talked at all the kitten time and ive had more than a few threats where im sitting there going (Id be well in my rights to call the cops right now o.O)

I’ve found that pvpers tend to have such a high opinion of themselves (myself included on some days) that anyone that beats them can’t possibly be doing it legitimately.

Its sad….yet also rather amusing. Atleast most people realize when there thinking that way and choke it down. Sadly the thief the OP mentioned failed miserably at that.

Uhh not only my ranger pet got the sheild buff but all of my necros minions did as well o.O not sure whats wrong on your end. are you using a ranged pet and having it in the kitten end of nowhere when you pop the shield?

soooo were in perfect agreement…. ooookaay then.

oxtred I wasn’t stating my own personal view however the view of most people I encounter in the game. In most games I play a control or debillitator play style. Just as I do in pvp and wvw in this game. However it faces the same stigma as dedicated support players do. (Not the guardian in the meta build with well timed aegis and cleanses but a full on (healian) who goes in with the sole intention of supporting and THEN dpsing not dpsing with supports at key times which is what we have in most groups now)

I DARE you to say that a guardian in full clerics will be promoted more in most “meta” groups than a guardian in zealots or zerker. Dungeons are NOT the priority of the game at this time meaning that its VERY unlikely that the mechanics will change. And in the current mechanics of dungeons a support guardian simply isn’t necessary.

That changes when you go out into the current open world group event system. Many of the events you can see people getting mobbed and dragged down by mordrem. At this time an actual dedicated support guardian is actually useful and in that situation probably the best at the job of keeping the poor kitten alive till he can get away.

Im not sure where you get me having a lack of comprehension. But of course upon looking at your earlier post you SEEM to support the stack and zerk meta. Which is part of the reason why DEDICATED support guardians just aren’t needed or wanted at this time in dungeon groups. (feel free to bite back if you feel in wrong here or if I missed something in your one sentence posts) so its hard to take you seriously “shrug”

Sadly support builds are only useful in areas like the new silverwaste zone and wvw/pvp. Large area battles. On the bright side. More and more large area battles seem to be coming into the game. Ont he down side. By the nature of this games combat mechanics its VERY unlikely that dungeons will ever require support. And the issue with support is that if it isn’t NEEDED to pass something than its simply suboptimal. (I can heal for 9000 health a burst!…Yeah but we only took 2000 damage can you also deal 7000 to make up for the time we lost?)

That I might be able to help with. Each mordrem has a fairly unqiue way of attacking or dealing damage.

Wolves will try to get you from behind or to the side. Its how theyl do the most damage to you due to there (increased damage from flanking)

The floating flower tentacle things (I cant really remember there names) usually use an aoe or a rooted ranged burrowing attack. That second one is most likely to kill you. As it will appear inside your hit box while your fighting something else making it hard to see.

Nearly all mordrem have a “key” mechanic like this. Once your aware of what each ones does your able to predict them a bit more easily. This ups your survivability by a lot.

Yes Mordrem are much more dangerous than many of the other games creatures. And the events in the new area ARE meant to be done in groups. But just fighting random mordrem should be possible alone. When your in the group fighting areas though I highly recommend bringing something to increase your survivability.

Many necros are choosing to bring a bit more life force gain or opt to taking tankier armors.

Ive seen thieves running some extra armor and health as well.

Rangers are getting a tiny bit smarter about letting there pets tank dangerous mobs for them while stabbing them in the back instead of going for full damage. (while doing full damage on many of the bosses is still necessary as long as they don’t die)

Learn what the mordrem each do and what your class can do to fight against it and youl find while there still not terribly “easy” when you have 6-7 of them on you its still winnable.

With more and more mordrem being thrown at us (with different type of husk based mobs) I can see condi focused hybrids being more and more desired. So I kinda feel happy that this set is in the game to give a condi focused glass cannon instead of the more hybridy rampagers. Well see how it plays out.

Since dungeons aren’t really a priority in the game and the game seems to be leaning more and more towards large area battles (just look at the new zone holy crap) I feel that condi builds are finally getting an arena they can fight in to there utmost. I suppose this is just another sign of that. Heres hoping though.

“sigh” alright.fair enough. The way I see it though is in the end were just gonna get hit with a numbers nerf or well end up being “built around” Id hoped to avoid that.

But meh :P either way. let this post dissapear into the forum void then. no point to keep it going if theres no discussion to be had.

Something a BIT more indepth mighta been nice prysin. But alright.

“crap idea” All im throwing out is just that. an Idea. Im not screaming for a nerf or anything. Just looking for a method of mitigating what is probably gonna be coming if the balance team holds true to there past patterns. If you want to shut it down then do so with an actual post. Not a 15 chars twitter chat.

Edited: Till I can rework the idea into something more manageable I’m gonna go ahead and remove the previous post ;P however if you want to continue the discussion feel free to.

That discussion was the overall goal of my post after all. seems like it worked if not in the way I originally intended.

Wait…did someone just apologize? In the forums? (Looks for strange horseman riding undead horses.)

I….what hte hell did I just read… Okay let me start with the fact that I only played thief long enough to learn how to kill them..im a ranger…

Im an effing longbow ranger… And ill say that you are… a fool.

I can NOT support this post in anyway..shape..or form.

I have NEVER in my time on these forums seen such a pure…undiluted..form of WHINING.

You have stated MANY things that….are simply not true. In any way. You make thieves to be these magical assassins while also claiming to be a well known and respected commander.

Have….have you ever even made a thief? If so youd realize a few things…

Yes.. There pretty effing annoyign to fight but they can also be annoying to play.

Yes. When played properly they can achieve results that many of classes struggle to.

But the punishment for a single mistake can be instantaneous leaving you little to know time to react.

I have main’d a ranger since day one. A class that for the longest time was a chew toy to them. And I have NEVER…NEVER thought that thieves in any way shape or form unbalanced the game in the way you are insinuating.

… I don’t have your back on this…at all. I hope your trolling. I really do. Because if your serious. And your actually leading people in this game. Then its no wonder were in a rut in WvW.

Ive also been enjoying this. 6-2-0-0-6 knights amulet BM powerbow build. Signet of the wild combined with sic’em and rampage as one on a fern hound traited with compassion training and invigorating bond for on demand self heals…. For the first time in months I see something enter melee range with me and I think…

“heh….bring it”

One the one hand. yeah. until people discover a way to counter them power rangers are gonna be pretty effing strong.

On the other hand…They have been ridiculed in PvE,TPvP and downright hated…verbally assaulted….and otherwise degraded in WvW for a long time now. As such (and as a ranger main) I am going to THOROUGHLY enjoy….every….kitten ….second… of everyone elses crying.

This seems toe be something that has cropped up recently. I’ve heard a possible solution is to run the repair system for gw2

https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/28148006-Repairing-the-Game-Client

Im currently trying this but I dont know for myself if it will work. heres hoping.

I am afraid this has happened to me as well. I was in WvW and went to talk to the trading post to get some new runes. Couldn’t open it at all (possible sign?) Then left and went to LA instead. When I attempted to open the trading post there I dc’d (not sure if related cause or just a potential symptom) I then attempted to log back in twice on that character and promptly dcd. Then I switched ot my necro who is also in LA who promptly dcd. Giving it a last shot I switched to my guard and she was fine in HOTM until I left..entered LA…and dc’d.

It reminds of vanilla wow when one of the server’s in charge of each continent would go down. Everyone else was fine until they attempted to enter that continent before getting into a dc crash. This very much feels like a “World Server crash”

I get the same errors as those above when attempting to enter the game on those three characters now. I won’t be logging in on the other characters till I atleast know tehy wont suffer the same fate haha.

In my experience as a necro positioning can be a REALLY big thing. Since we have lower maneuverability without using certain runes or utilities its really easy for us to get caught between a rock and a hard place. One of the most important things ive found to my survival is staying around 600 range from any enemy warriors,engineers unless im going for the kill. Its WAAAAY to easy to get pinballed u.u

I kinda hope is a condi war…Who loaded up bleed stocks on a necro and had them sent back at him. he was talking about an army of pets so I assume he got butchered by a MM. They only have control conditions as far as actually utilizing them properly. They can throw out healthy bleed stacks but since they dont have high condi dmg they might as well just be another type of poison.

Im ASSUMING… That he went in got immob/chill chained and had his key attacks nerfed by weakness. Then its just a batter of transfering condis back at him then waiting for him to die. I cant tell you how many people I kill on my necro just from being able to send condis back at them. Returning a warriors pindown has been the death of many a hambow u.u

If he was axe,gs, or rifle. Then I have to assume it was mostly the prevalence of weakness and chill which are a Good MMs best mitigative tools. Which means the MM managed his cooldowns properly to take advantage of death nova and the OP..didn’t.

Anyway OP. If you want some practice killing MM necros I can teach ya how to do it fairly regularly as long as your willing to learn. Send me a message in game? Theres an empty arena SOMEWHERE we could use to get ya some practice in 1v1ning it.

Im largely of the opinion that destruction and reconstruction go hand it hand. I dont mind if the super bad enemies lay waste to the land scape changing it forever. As long as that land scape fights back or the civilians help it recover. Take the blight for example. Id love to see pits and pieces of growth on the edges of it. Or civilains escorted by local soldiers digging away at the earth to clear the corrupted land and replace it with imported soil.

It’s more like I want to see a situation where I feel less like “Bad kittens gonna happen and I can only work to not let it get worse” And more like "Bad kittens gonna happen. But I can keep it from being REALLY bad AND the world will recover from it.

Ai from what ive heard and experienced in game have a few deciding factors on there threat and choice of target. It is part of what gave the illusion early on in hte game that tanking was impossible.

1st: Can I reach my target: If the mob is CCd and there current high threat target is a high distance away they will have a higher chance of swapping to a closer target. This makes chilling/crippling/immobilizing a huge help if you want to keep threat on a specific target (I use cripple in fractals when I need to heal because it encourages the mobs to either go after my pet or after the tankier heavy classes)

2nd: Whos the most kitten looking person in the area. The mobs from my own experience definetly relate to high toughness on our armor sets. If you have high toughness your more likely to be attacked. But without the above CCs it can be difficult to keep them on you. Thus wearing knights or soldiers could indeed help you take agro (Althout it simply doesnt have enough of an impact in a fight in todays game world a difference….hence the “zerk meta”)

3rd: Did that guy just stab me? He just stabbed me didn’t he…kitten THAT GUY: Damaging defenitly causes threat. Although This largely seems to depend on power damage primarily. This is due to the fact that threat generated by our damage doesnt seem to last very long. A zerker war could yank threat off of a knights guardian right at the end of a yolo blades chain but the knights guardian even if hes doing less damage will probably still take the majority of hate.

On the other hand conditions in my experience dont generate a massive amount of hate. Probably due to how spread out there damage is. This leads me to believe that condis were meant to be a “silent killer” as far as PvE is concerned (less damage but very little chance of grabbign agro and getting wacked).

However due to the fact that such builds simply are not NECESSARY (i.e. we dont NEED to have them with the exception of the more recent additions to the game (Im looking at you husks)) this largely goes unnoticed and unexplored and sadly until something happens to weaken the current PvE meta (Return of the growing cleave effects from other games (I.E. If I hit more than 2 people with this sword swing im seriously going to kitten your kitten up) or spreading debilities (contagious disease effects that stack the longer people are in proximity))

But as far as threat goes. Our tankier pets DO in fact generate and hold threat more effectively despite doing subpar damage. The reason for this is that threat from damage seems to be (temporary) I.E. it happens and then its gone. While that high toughness number is ALWAYS there and its always kittening hte mob off.

(One Mob looks to another…“Hey…you see that bear? I dont know why but its REALLY kittening me off….like seriously…can we shank it or something? No dont look at the warriors lets get that kittening bear”)

Honestly I feel like the turret engi as a whole does its one job very well. It’s a point defense/support build. It cant be anything else. Which is part of the reason it can be difficult to make it work against a team that knows how to fight them.

Due to there innate limitations which they share not only with other AI builds (caving to focus fire in moments for example…especially condis in the engineers perspective) but also to ANY build that focuses ENTIRELY on one single aspect of the match it can be counter comped ACCIDENTALLY.

Turret engis are decently strong on a point sure. But thats the ONLY place there strong. I will NEVER be afraid of a turret engi mid field. Because Im simply going to CC him with something run past and take the point behind him before he can get there and set up his bots.

Another Issue is alot of people simply havnt learned to prioritize there damage and survivability in this game. Only the most experienced players have shown even a small sign of actually observing how there being hit and making decisions to deal with that.

A turret engi’s damage will come from 2 or 3 sources. However his damage is subpar compared to another builds the moment you stop one or two of those sources form hitting you. However it can be a bit difficult because its practically fighting a war of attrition (much like fighting any AI build is) You have to muscle through punishing fire long enough to break the turret engis hold OR bring enough fire power on your side to “shock and awe” the point.

However most players don’t care enough to even TRY to think about what there doing wrong. When they lose they dont think “what the hell did I kitten up to get rolled that badly” Instead they go “OMG YOUR BEING CARRIED BY AI PLAY A REAL BUILD” get there pride stuck up there backsides then keep making the same idiotic mistakes.

TLDR; Is turret engi strong atm? Yes…If your stupid enough to fight a point defense build on the point without even taking 5 seconds to soften it up. Is turret engi doing more than its supposed to? No. It does its job pretty kitten well. A little TOO well MAYBE. But thats more due to a lack of player learning abilities on there opponents fault than the build itself. Should Turret Engi be nerfed because there opponents aren’t bright enough to realize standing in fire BAD? Maybe. It might be better for the game. But only after there opponents admit they lost because they simply couldn’t be BOTHERED to figure it out.

For most of you that don’t know me I am a WvWlder on CD >.< I was recently asked to create an origin story for the “character” I have been playing in WvW lately. Upon telling it to my fellows they said I should post it in the WvW forum >.< so here it is. Hope yall can get a bit of a chuckle from it atleast :P

As the Mist Wars rage on and the battles become ever more bloody there lies countless innocent victims. There bodies trampled, scorched, crushed, and ripped apart by the forces that roam the lands. Helpless before the might of steel and magic these poor creatures have been slain by the millions as there children and there children and pushed to the front lines of the wars. Needless to say. These yaks are not without resentment towards there killers. But there is naught a yak can do but meekly accept its fate. Until now. The resentment of those countless millions fallen has finally given birth to the TRUE menace of the Mist War. And it’s name…is…GHOST YAK.

Far less docile than its living counterparts. Ghost Yak has consumed the minds of a number of adventurers across the worlds. And when threatened. WIll call upon them for aid against there enemies.

These adventurers. Known as the Vengeance of the Ghost Yak are sworn to obey this call to arms no matter who there agressor is. Even if it leads to there deaths. And should they fall.

When the fighting is complete. Ghost Yak will return to his vigil over the mists. Waiting for the next hapless barbarian to strike at him…or his brethren.
YOU WILL FEAR THE YAK!

RIGHT?! good god so many problems in tyria can be solved with a preemptive arrow to the face. Crazy charr shamans? Arrow to the face. Creepy ghost thing? Arrow to the face. Evil god coming to rend the souls of mortals? Multiple Arrows to the face. Scarlet? Liberal application of arrows to the face.

Gotta say I wouldnt mind a bit more chaotic approach. My favorite character is my ranger. An entity in which (in my mind atleast) shouldn’t give much of a kitten about other people in general. Oh if he sees a little girl about to be killed by a bandit sure hel put an arrow in his face and take her home. But he wont stay for dinner and he certainly wont decline the reward for finding her before going off to collect the bounty on the bandit head he has tied to his belt.

So when I see him say some of the lines he does in the game its kinda… well it kinda feels like. “This is NOT the character I raised from level one”

Yo Fid gotta say I can understand where your coming from. And there are other people that feel the same way. But I want to say the same thing I said to them (in game not here on the forums yet unless ive forgotten). The world of Tyria…Well…its not a very happy place. We get some pretty sappy friendship and togetherness stuff thrown at us fairly often. However when you look at the state of the world…its REALLY kittenty.

If half the stuff that has ALREADY happened happened in the real world today…Im fairly certain there would have been LIBERAL applications of nuclear fire despite the long term side effects.

I kinda feel like the game throws two sides at us. From the NPC reaction we get this whole cheesy (we can handle everything as long as were together) kinda story. But if you look at the world itself not just as graphics but what it represents. Tyria is a hell hole. This was true back in GW1 as well. We REGULARLY saw evidence of large numbers of people being wiped out. Same as here. Infact one could say that the reason people in the world dont react more to the events of the living story it could simply be because the civilian population doesn’t see it as anything new.

(Oh ANOTHER fort got wiped out?) Theyd feel concerned but probably wouldn’t react to severly.

So what Im trying to say is. I see where your coming from. But large scale death and destruction are the norm in tyria from every experience I’ve had with the game. Im honestly suprised that it hasn’t been MORE effed up. Maybe it has and it is just already on a scale larger than we as players can currently witness. Don’t let the NPC interactions fool you. It’s not really a happy place to live. It’s just a place where everyone is forcing themselves to live and be happy with what they’v got because the “hero’s” are not fighting for a better world…there just trying to keep it from getting worse.

Some of these puns are just Eagle.

Bone minions. Because shredding a thief that just basilisk venomed you never fealt so good.

Forums posts like these make me want a giant red button that force everyone to play Minion Mancer necro or Spirit weapon guardian for 24 hours. Because most of the people complaining about these builds obviously have no idea what there talking about.

Most of the damage comes form passive auto attacks my left kitten cheek. I PLAY a minion mancer necro. The only times there auto attack damage is even remotely dangerous is when I cc something into a corner then immobilize it long enough for htem to be beat on.

The other 99% of hte time against players who are even SLIGHTLY good at the game its the bone minions doing over 80% of my killing damage. The rest is just attrition.

I do however apologize to the OP for semi swallowing your post. It was not my intention.

Again you completely ignore it o.o ah well. Ill try one last time. Yes…our pets are our physical damage sources. But its not the auto attack. if you REALLY think that then….well…I have no more hope for you o.o The vast majority of the damage you are going to take..are going to be from active abilities. If your taking THAT MUCH AUTO ATTACK DAMAGE FROM MINIONS….then maybe you SHOULD to go PvE. Its obviously the more challenging content for you. It may sound rude. But its 3:52 A.M. here and ill be going to sleep within the hour.

If you seriously want to learn what your doing wrong. I will HAPPILY teach you in game. send me a mail. Dsseren is my necro. Ill teach you EXACTLY why MMancer isnt used in tournaments by anyone with common sense. I will show you every mistake that you most likely repeat against every MMancer out there. But you havnt shown any desire to learn how to win. You just know you lose. you blame it on the auto attack (how I have absolutely NO idea) of my pets.

But form what ive heard. It sounds like your terrible at knowing when to reset a fight. which is wierd because its supposed to be a thieves specialty.

Thats it for me though. I may post here again tommorow to whatever reply you’l think of next.

As for your last post shockwave. You’v flat out shown you have ignored a large chunk of what we have said. If you played hte class youd realize the work it takes to getting those (ai auto attacks) to even LAND. We arn’t fighting you. were fighting your ability to move and your ability to deal damage to us. We are atcively working to mitigate your movement and your damage in that order. I do so using chill,immobilize,fear, and weakness.

THOSE are my damage sources.

Edit as follows: it also shows that you didnt even fully read my post and understand what it meant. He use dhte hydromancy runes to NEGATE that “ai auto attack” leaving my my own auto attack and my largely control focused attacks as my only damage sources against him. Which are all MUCH easier to avoid once my pets are out of play

As for the “A fight doesnt last ten seconds” remember thats ten seconds of you sitting htere doing absolutely nothing. By moving in any direction assuming im not ACTIVELY attacking you youl double that time atleast. By chilling/blidning them you add even more time. Every action you take is weighed against every action I take. Im trying to lock you down. Your trying to kill me. Its how we fight.

And to be more precise on the situation. There was more that goes on during our fights than I stated. theres alot of stealthing and restealthing. Lots of sneak backstabs. Lots of Bouncing arrows and poison volleys. and a HELL of a lot of well timed dodges on his part as I activated my minions abilities

We have already stated that Turret engi is a poor example of an AI build and shouldnt even be refered to as such. It is everything than an AI build SHOULDNT be able to do. ALthough its no where near as OP as people think it is.

And from what you JUST said.

“Also, if the AI is losing to cluster spam, you aren’t using your fears, golem charge, or dps right. There’s no reason you shouldn’t CC someone targeting your minions. You can’t cluster bomb and avoid the CC at the same time. You basically get to let your AI win for you in that situation.”

The ENTIRE PLAYSTYLE is based around the necro acting as a control center. this has been stated MULTIPLE times throughout our thread. You just ADMITTED that it takes player interaction to be able to win against the clusterbomb attacks. and your right. it did. And I did. I….not my pets….ME…the person controlling them adapted and found a way to beat them. Ty for admitted that it takes a player decision…timing…and yes…skill…to defeat an opponent.

Hopefully youl remember that next time one of us eats you alive.

Edit: Added Quotation marks

Shockwave there is actually a fairly key difference. Its the twitch reaction. If I see a warrior eviscerating me from behind around 6 times out of ten I can do something about it. Whats frustrating with thief backstab is I dont have that opportunity for a twitch reaction. My body WANTS to avoid it as its been trained to do. The issue is quite LITERALLY by the time I notice its to late. But thats part of the AWESOMENESS of playing a thief. Hitting an oponent before they can react. A good thief approaches without his oponent even knowing and wrecks havic in that gap where a players reaction SHOULD take place. If I see a thief coming then yes I have a significant advantage because his element of suprise is gone. But those times when I dont holy kitten its annoying trying to break away in order to regain the flow of battle.

The second thing I meant to say was hte habit of the thief to always repeatedly use the same attack patterns over and over. Even an ape can figure out how to fight if there attacked hte same way repeatedly.

As stated by Bhawb the minions WITHOUT player interaction do….Pitiful damage. You could sit there and let them beat on you in full glass and it would still take 10+ seconds to kill you. Thats WAYYYY longer than it would take a player to kill you. Assuming your competent (which I will for the sake of argument and my trust in you as a fellow player not to talk about something you dont know) Youl be moving. This will cut that dps in half due to the pets (move…stop….attack…move…stop..attack) If you are REALLY outplaying the owner. This along with dodges….blinds(my minions cant do ANYTHING against blinds) retaliation…reflects…etc..etc.. or any of hte other MYRIAD ways to fight back against them the ONLY dangerous part of them that should even touch you is there actives. Becuase we chain the actives with our control skills to make kitten sure those hit because there the driving force of our builds.

I will go ahead and say this. There are two things that help me beat thieves. I have TRAINED a thief player to beat me and he now does so 7/10 times in 1v1s when we play together. The first mistake he was making. Tunnel visioning. His lack of situational awareness was the number one cause of most of his deaths. When he sat back and looked at the whole screen while zoomed out and actualy let the information hit him he performed SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER. He hten was winning against me half the time.

He then made a different change I didnt expect. Before hed used blinds to try and stop my minions from effecting him. He decided to throw a hydromancy sigil onto his melee and ranged weapon sets. He would attack me. Cause my minions to cluster around me. Then switch to his shortbow chilling my minions KEEPING US CLUSTERED and then evading away to fire that cluster bomb on us. It effing wrecks me when he does that. Hel then kite my flesh golem and any unexploded bone minions away and when they get close weapon swap again slowing htem down AGAIN and shadowstep to me and dpsing me.

This was effing brilliant and something id never seen a thief do up to that point. He adapted an underused sigil and used to pretty much violate my key mechanic. Id reccomend trying something similar. Find something NEW to use instead of repeating old mistakes.

Hell one of my favorite fights of all time was when I was fighting another SW guard as a SW guard. One time during the fight we sent each of our spirit hammers to try to take otu the other spirit hammer at the same time. They did this wierd flippy thing in the air then nothing happened. We actualy stopped fighting for a second to go…uhh….Wut?

Shockwave from my perspective its hte control im dishing out you should be able to see coming. To ANY necro what im going to attempt is obvious and pre ordained unless I can think of something on the fly. You as a thief player can predict other thieves. I have played thief so I can also predict them to an extent (I am by no means an expert) however I can also predict another MMancer because I play one. So too can they predict me. If you want to see some of the WIERDEST fighting put two enemy MM necros or two Turret engis in a room together…The akwardness is palpable.

Shockwave its true that MMancer can be a decent soft counter for D/P thief where the world really doesnt have that many counters besides stacking health and toughness. Our external control alllows us to react where most other builds cant. That kind of makes us your nemisis on the field. But then if your trying to 1v1 a MM necro on a point as a D/P thief your doing something wrong. There are much better ways to contribute to a fight. Thieves are NOTORIOUS for +1ning a fight. When I see an enemy thief on a match I assume I will NEVER have a one versus one. The only time I relax is when I see your symbol on the minimap at the other part of the field.

Remember that necros are well known to be slow. I cant shadowstep up to the clocktower then back down to the other side of the field. You can effectively kill multiple of my teammates quickly by turning an even fight to your favor. Then two of you can come over roflstomp on my body and then move off after decapping before my team can get there.

As I said before trying to find another way may be the best bet. This holds true for EVERY AI build not just my MM necro.