Guild Wars 2

@ uber Yeah sounds like they were really good at rotation. And they were able to split there enemy up well enough to go for guaranteed wins. They played to there strengths. If pandemonium did what you say I gotta give mad props to the guy then.

@ huggles as I said though theres gonna be new matchmaking today. And I can’t stress that the issue your having IS NOT balance but matchmaking issues.

Balance refers to how classes and there mechanics work against eachother. Celestial D/D Ely VS. MM Necro Vs. Ax/Shield Warrior Vs. Backstab Thief.

Matchmaking is the issue atm. As people of varrying experience levels are being partnered with and against eachother. So you ended up with people that did not know how to play the objectives properly vs people who might not be very skilled but new what the important thing was in the match.

If you think you were on a higher skill/experience level than the lemmings.. Id reccomend you keep playing as if the new matchmaking that is coming out TODAY works as advertised youl have fewer issues. (Id guess its impossible to get rid of it ENTIRELY but the instances of severe differences should all but vanish given time and fine tuning).

I.E. Your having a standard issue that has existed up to this point and ironically chose to come to the forums with it on the very day its being addressed. Kinda funny if you think about it.

P.S. Theres a resurgence of rangers because now theres actually more than one or two possible playstyles with it. Before it was condi bunker or 100% absolute glass (hardly viable because the damage was impossible to land and anything and its grandmother could kill it) But changes have been made to make the power builds more useable. This caused alot of rangers to come out of retirement.

The ranger archetype is one of the most common in the gaming world so its not suprising there was ALOT of them. Many of them play different classes though so id say you just got really weird luck in attracting them. I see one MAYBE two in games. and many games that have none at all.

Alright. That was pretty epic. I really wish we had more view of him in game as its obvious how much effort was put into him. The fight didn’t stress the sheer size of the beast enough I think even as it hung onto a massive tower. Makes me laugh at the thought of actually fighting it on the ground because it would be something on the scale of a god of war boss.

Alright. One the fact that your team was idiotic has nothing to do with the balance of the game. Starting later today that SHOULD start getting better. As the new matchmaking if it works iwll partner you with more experienced people as you play more games.

As for the fear/minion necro duo on another point. Again that loss was msotly to your team being a bunch of lemmings. Simply sending 3 people to the necros would have given you the win as two others kept there engies tied up. Or even one other keeping the engis tied up so they couldnt take the point you did have. The loss had nothing at all to do with balance and everything to do with inexperience and bad choices in match.

o.O ill be honest. If theres three turret engineers on a single point. Laugh at them and leave for another point. Because there effing morons or trolls and theyv given you the win. If theres one on each point. Start zerging. And have a burster cover the point you leave behind. Turret engineers HAVE to be set up or there worthless. So you need someone that can kill them quick or prevent them from setting up. (guards/hambows are good at preventing htem from setting up properly and thieves/mesmers can burst htem before they make it onto the point as long as there scouting properly instead of sitting on the point.

If there setup on the point and you cant get him off send a GOOD minion mancer (as wierd as that may sound to many people) ANY necro well played can do it but MMs will have the easiest time due to the minions body blocking the rocket turret. As long as they know what there doing they can take the turret engi out our force them off the point. At which point hte turret engineer has failed in the ONE job the class is capable of.

Instead of crying about AI and how much you hate it maybe figure out why the more experienced players have generally stopped saying anything about it. Most of them have accepted it and don’t even mind because once you know what to do there even easier to kill than any other build. They just take a different viewpoint.

As for the rangers. I have no honest idea why your angry at them. The longbow rangers can be almost instantly killed by a well timed burst. The condi rangers get eaten by pretty standard things and have to be played well to be effective. There have been much fewer spirit rangers around lately. Probably getting countered by a part of the current meta.

Lager the zealots works really well for me in pve. I can keep a pet that would normally die on certain fights in and hitting for longer periods of time or even permanently if im paying attention. Id reccomend mixing in some assassin’s or zerkers to get the ferocity up a bit. And take things that proc on crit. (Like the companions might trait) I like to use strength sigil to further up my damage.

You wont have hte super high crits. But being able to maintain higher stacks of might on both you and the pet as well as keeping the pet alive in situations that would normally kill it seems to make up for that. Its closer to to my mental picture of a BM ranger archetype that much of what is usually considered BM in this game.

Wait, Are you dieing to turret engineers?

I wouldnt mind another underwater pet if they actually released water based content. ATM though there isn’t much reason for us to get one >.< since we cant even use them outside of a very select number of pve environments (and one tiny area in the wvw borderlands)

If I had to pick one and only one…it would probably be a wind rider. because the nature of wind riders would turn them into an actually unique pet in the way it fights. I can think of all sorts of places that a pet with a chain lightning auto attack (ely staff 1 i think?) with an f2 that deals confusion and an auto cast stealth mechanic when its in danger.

It could start as a non combatant mini. And as we kill more and more enemies it gets a little larger till it turns into a pet

Im game for it o.O we have all these asurans running around. Might as well use em for SOMETHING >.>

Wurms,Fleshreavers,Calocols(hoping im spelling that right), Wind Riders, Skelks, Skales, Raptors, Moose, Minotaurs, Karka, Moose, Any of hte insects, Griffons, Moose would be nice too.

Alright. First post since I got back just to warn ya my typing may be a bit off.

Minion Mancers aren’t usually utilized outside close quarters environments (conquest for example) due to the fact that the STANDARD MM playstyle is based on forcing the opponent to fight the minions. (Necro usually acts as a CC Bunker in order to hold the enemy down for the minions to feed on)

This means that in open areas were extremely succeptible to kiting. Which is what most roaming builds are very good at. Generally the only way to truly take down a person is to bait them into getting close enough we can start a CC chain on them. (Usually being careful not to blow anything since we generally have to spread out applications out to avoid the myriad cleanses available to classes nowadays)

You can try loading the damage back onto the necromancer himself however even in doing so youl find that fighting in a roaming environment feels MUCH different than how we usually engage (Frontloading debilitations doesn’t work against an opponent with experience against necros unless they make a mistake (which isn’t something to be relied on))

Combine that with necros normally lower mobility in general (which youl need to counteract as youl always be the target in an engagement)

Most roaming builds Ive seen posted lately have been power builds (often DS builds) of one type or another. Im sure there are others but those are the ones ive been seeing more of. From the best that I can tell by condensing the playstyle into a few key features and the manipulation therein you take out alot of the variables necros have to deal with. (Power damage doesn’t give a kitten if they have cleanses for example as the CCs these builds put out are generally used for immediate results to position the opponent favorably for a hit)

MM on the other hand has ALOT of things that can go wrong against a player opponent. (Pathing bug. Random Missing due to enemy movement. Death due to unavoidable damage. Death due to ACCIDENTAL damage. Being hit by stray soft or hard ccs) This is mitigated against AI Opponents and Conquest Players as you can practically force the opponent to engage you in the ideal situation for you (In a nice clustered point where they cant possible avoid EVERYTHING thats getting thrown at them from 5 different sources)

TL:DR. MM due to the very nature of its setup I can’t in good faith say is viable for WvW roaming. The areas where youl be able to actually use the aspects of the build that make an MM build what it is are almost nonexistant. And the inherent nature of our playstyle counters itself in open field engagements with many random variables that we have little ability to actively prevent.

Choosing a more necro centered build (There are many DS and Condi roaming builds around im sure someone will be willing to post) will be your best bet as far as roaming is concerned.

I still havn’t seen anyone proving that it wasn’t on there side. Alot of people play with poor connections. Alot of people play without realising there connection is actually a poor one.

In this case there could be something on the individual level causing these issues. As from what I can tell if this was a base problem on A-Nets side wouldn’t it effect a MUCH larger portion of the playerbase? And since this is a buisness wouldn’t they be doing anything in there power to make sure everything on there side is clear?

It COULD be something on A-Nets side that seems to only affect a very specific group of people. Yet there would be a similarity or a common problem between the individuals that once found could help to identify the problem. I can’t see how A-Net wouldn’t have atleast had an idea on how to mitigate the effects of the problem for these specific individuals.

Now I won’t claim to be an expert. But most often isn’t the simplest possibility the right one? To me this looks like people getting up in arms together about a massive problem on A-Net. But I havn’t personally seen any evidence that its on A-Nets side of the equation at all. This means I have to think that its something on the players side they just don’t understand is causing an issue.

And enough people are having similar issues (Almost inevitable in a large scale MMO happened all the time in the wow forums) that might not even be related to eachother much less A-Net grouping together and making a set of individual issues seem like some massive problem and then throwing it at A-Net. Rather than coming on here and ranting. Did you go through the the paths they offer in order to get in contact with them? Did you report your problems to them while giving them your systems specs if required? Did you check your own kitten internet using a tracking software to see if theres any issues on YOUR end?

Rising im not sure how you managed to twist it that much but I gotta say its impressive. Sadly its 6 A.M. and ive gotta be on the road. Ill try to remember to give a more detailed reply when I get back.

The main thing is that the things ive stated are dependent on the ease at which we do it. Some of the things ive mentioned we do innately that every single necromancer build is capable of. Others are more specialized.

Its obvious though were looking at two different things here. not that it matters. Since I wont be able to honestly respond likely for a few days.

Ill delete my previous two posts in this forum as theyl only cause contention at this point. When I get back Ill try to reply with a more clear version of what I was attempting to put forth. If you want to discuss it in more detail send me a message. Id love the chance to prove you wrong once I get back.

(Note im serious about that last bit. Id like to actually be able to discuss it with you if you have the time at that point as ive found the majority of the playerbase shares your opinion. I think since wev had similar opinions the only way to break it through honest conversation and if necessary demonstration of necromancers strengths outside of a pure zerk environment)

the only possible healing in deathshroud comes form the end of the line death magic trait. Which is used in an extremely niche build that i THINK got nicknamed blood shroud. However its pretty much unused at this time because of HOW niche its operation is.

S.O.V. is pretty much unused as of this moment do to its internal cooldown.

Gah. lets let this thread die. Its just a breeding ground for trouble. Some people will say I just want to avoid the issue. But I mostly want to avoid the people these kind of posts attract. While I definitely don’t agree with what happened to the OP and feel the perpetrators should be ashamed of themselves. At the same time ive had worse things said and thrown at me in this game and im male.

Im sorry this happened to you. But at the same time the same thing happens to kitten near everyone in pvp. Male or Female. Unless you advertised you were a woman I doubt it was actually because your female. Its far more likely they just used generic insults at you which admittedly can be easily misunderstood as a targeted response.

If you did advertise your gender (which you would need to for anyone to believe you were female without chatting you for awhile since guys automatically assume any female avatar they see is actually a male for safety reasons and to avoid embarrassing situations.) you should be aware that there ARE kittens in the internet that will say things they don’t even mean to get a response out of you. This goes for men and women. Ive been exposed to both genders of kittenbags and have no respect for them.

These people RARELY mean anything they say. They say it for hte sole purpose of getting a response out of you. And in making this post you gave them EXACTLY what they wanted. Further reinforcing whatever mental image they have of you. They would do the same exact thing if you were male and responded in a similar fashion.

Next time. block them, Report them, And move on with your life. This is the internet. They are completely incapable of contacting you if you don’t allow it. And once you block them you stop whatever joy them get out of it. Making posts like this just encourages the behavior in others because they see there is SOMEONE in the game world who will fall for it.

Gotta say id still like the greatsword >.<. The flow of greatsword weapons in this game are usually pretty smooth. I tend to dislike the clunkier setups of hammers. But atm I just want a really big melee weapon to smash someones face in before switching into deathshroud and giggling at there counterattack. It just seems like such a fun idea to me.

Hmm I guess weve just had different experiences with the classes in question then. Or we play our classes in different ways. The only way to really test that would be to come up with scenarios and proposed solutions and test them. But that would be a drag on both our time as interesting as it would be. Id like to eventually test it though since this is one of those situations thats harder to figure out since open world pve especially against the current enemies there releasing tends to be a bit less static than the dungeon content that necros are typically held up against.

I guess my biggest pet pieve on the matter is how often necros capability of debilitation is ignored. (something we do inately as part of our normal play even if we choose not to focus on it) its worthless in dungeon content but as far as the kind of fighting ANet seems to be leaning towards is much more valuable than its ever been.

spoj the point of my post wasn’t to state just the things that we can do better (which I FIRMLY believe we CAN actually do better than other classes in the situations the new zone has given us) But to expand on the list of necro capabilities as far as new pve content is concerned.

Its pretty well established were bottom of the pack in the old content "dungeons being the key part there) However in newer content were MUCH more competitive to other classes on the field largely because the kinds of fights were getting are better suited to the classes capabilities.

Depends on the build. A traditional MM build 40640 doesnt rate terribly highly from boons. Mostly becuase the boons only benefit the necro himself and rarely the minions.

To explain. A guardian cast uses his f1. If the group is stacked on the guardian all 5 players will get the boon and burning on hit proc but the pets will not. This is how most pve currently is. Theres usually 4 other players in range that get hte boon. However if there AREN’T 4 players in range but the necros minions are in range. instead THEY will get the boon and the burning on hit proc.

Minions tend to benefit more form boons in PvP scenarios. An MM mancer partnered with a guardian is an interesting combo because the guardain can reliably use his f1 to its fullest effect. He casts f1 and the pets around him will ALSO burn his target just as normally a player would. The pets will also get might as long as the necro himself is out of range. It looks to some very interesting play as time goes on. The pets will also gain protection,regeneration, and aegis from the guard as well as the fight lasts increasing there performance and there “effective” dps

However in PvE (currently the only place where dps is the end all do all goal to some players) Your either in dungeons (stacked into a corner or using a similar method to easy mode a fight because kitten near no one ever bothers to actually FIGHT bosses. or stacked in melee to boon share between the PLAYERS) its impossible to grant might stacks reliably to your flesh golem or your bone fiend. (primary sources of long term MM dps besides the MM itself…bone minions im considering a burst option as there often used as a “drop and pop” attack)

TlDR for the first part: MM dps isn’t capable of reaching its potential in the current working of the game except in specific circumstances. Due to priority of players of pets for boon distribution and the inability of the necromancer to reliably buff his pets they can’t be a main source of damage in zerk meta situations.

Theres way around this though. Using minions primarily as a utility source and instead focusing damage on the necro itself can enable you to still do comperable damage to other players without losing the heart of your playstyle. A 20606 Cavalier build is an example of this (something I currently use in PvE and am testing in TPvP with some friends)

However a traditional MMancer cant typically (except in specific circumstances) fully utilize its damage potential. Thus gets left behind by the often simpler spam methods of other builds as far as PvE is concerned. Remember. The metas arn’t the metas because there fun. But because there the easiest way to do the most damage. There the most “efficient” method. Some people honestly enjoy them. Power to them. Sadly mostt people I know despise the meta and use them only because they feel they have to.

TL;DR for the whole: A traditional Minion Mancer does significantly enough less damage that while a viable method of play there typically looked downed on. However other variants of the MM build have more success at being closer to optimal without sacrificing the heart of the playstyle.

Necros are actually better off in the new zones than we are in many of the others. Large are spread out fighting is what where good at. We have liberal sources of soft aoe cc. And and even have innate hard cc that ALL necros have access to regardless of build. Control is more viable in large areas such as this because it means we can take more dangerous mobs out of play before they butcher another player.

What most people can’t handle is that its a play it by ear kind of thing. Take the mordrem for example. The enemy were currently fighting and likely hte most dangerous pve force currently in the game. Were better at taking our large groups of mordrem simultaneously in a 1vx scenario than most are. A decent MM running a no vampiric build can solo a gate defense of any difficulty tier. And even perpetually hold a legendary while others complete the defense with no trouble.

As for things a necro can do that other classes cant. We can casually negate a group of menders. Stop several teragriffs charging another player with ease. Even our power builds can kill husks quickly while still being tanky enough to survive the attention theyl get.

Were better at holding large groups of mordrem in a single area than pretty much anyone else thanks to aoe chills/immoblize/fear/poison and weakness which means were really useful as partners to squisher builds like zerk staff ellies. Because we can hold groups of mordrem still long enough for an ally the get a full meteor shower off on the entire swarm.

Most people forget that open pve isn’t the same as dungeons. And with mordrem its generally a bad idea to have everyone there stacked in one location. (3 or for mordrem slingers will kill half hte stack. and enough mordrem teragriffs charging into you will spell death for pretty much anyone not a bunker. So natrually controlling classes like necromancers get a decent chance to shine since combat in the new zones are more about defending locations than smashing your face repeatedly into a dps rotation and calling it “skill”

Simply being able to hold 10+ mobs in a location long enough for someone on one of hte defense locations acs to start firing on it is more than possible for a necro as long as you understand the games agro mechanics. (which many people never learn because dungeons are a lolfest.)

Tbh Id prefer if mark of horror spawned a unique form of minion accessible to only lich form. Like maybe a shadow self like hte one from liadri the concealing dark. Anyone caught in the spell had a shadow self instantly appear within 600 range and start tracking them. Dealing heavy damage if there alowed to make contact.

What zoso said is right. If the detonations worked in the same manner as bone minion detonations theyd be an EXTREMELY powerful aoe nuke. Thats kitten near unavoidable because the only telegraph is that the tiny buggers are humping your leg.

If it was ONLY the damage of death nova thered be no problem. But if they only just died for anyone that had death nova being able to explode them would be……pointless.

Theyd most likely have a similar detonation mechanic to bone minions. And 5 bone minions going off at once. is around 3k each (against an average defense oponent). Thats 15k aoe damage instantly to any target in the area. Assuming most people in combat are missing one or two thousand health at any given point. With many of htem being around 50-70% hp. its definetly a GIB scenario.

@wetwillyhip

To the question of other runes first, The thing about MM is that its useable with many difference rune types. Golemancer runes would probably work just fine with the setup. Another option are Air,Strength,Path,Ogre,Water(to supplement blood fiend sacrifice if you decide to use it), hoelbrak (see where im going with this?). Its up to your own preference. And limiting yourself to once setup will keep you from finding others that might fit your playstyle more (thus being more fun). Id say try different things. Use one until your bored then switch to another. Golemancer is a great place to start. and you might decide that those runes are what fits you best and never move on. One of the joys of having a playstyle as adaptable as MM is.

As for the build you posted. I was originally hesitant on commenting on it due to some presonal issues I have to vampiric traits and setups. As such I havn’t utilized them nearly enough to be able to give you a good idea. I will say that without having a heavy damage source (training of the master for increased pet damage. Or focusing your damage somewhere else) you may find yourself struggling to kill (or is more appropriate to the MM playstyle “outlast”) certain encounters that have heavy aoe pressure.

Normally that could be counteracted by your trait setups high sustain. However the issue with vampiric Minion masters is that both there damage AND there survivability are both tied to the minions. Which atm are very susceptible to aoe. And when they die your primary source of both sustained damage and sustained survivability die.

Long story short. With that setup there is much content that you will be able to largely breeze through. However you will encounter situations that feel like a hard counter to you. Completely stopping you in your tracks and forcing you to rely on those around you until you can recover.

MinionMancer has typically two great strengths. Dispersed sources of damage and Dispersed sources of control. We typically have lower mobility but we make it up for being naturally tanky through our high hp pools our high toughness and our liberal applications of debilitations.

The part where each MM build differs is where the focus is.

My second build that you were looking at is one where damage is focused on the caster and control is spread between the caster and the pets.

The first is one where the damage is spread between the caster and the pets and control is spread between the caster and the pets.

Yours is a case where Instead of damage you take survivability. Having survivability being focused on the pets and control between the caster and the pets. This takes the longer approach to fighting.

What you choose to do may be none of these. You may find a combination that many people look at and go (what the kitten?) but as I said before your playstyle will decide whats will truly be most effective for you. Id reccomend picking one close to what you know and working towards what you think is your ideal playstyle until you reach a conclusion through testing.

Either of these are a great place to start. But its similar to the runes when you may stay there or may end up somewhere completely different. You may even abandon MM entirely for a more DS focused build. Or even go into conditions.

P.S. I use flesh wurm for almost all content. Having an oh kitten button is a massive benefit in all forms of a gaming.

@wetwillyhip np mate I currently use two builds that act as a ds/mm hybrid The only difference between the two is where the majority of the damage comes from.

The 4 0 6 0 4 build is closer to this games traditional minion mancer setup. Instead of life drain (vampiric master is unreliable due to ai issues atm) It focuses on improving death shroud. Amulet is interchangeable with soldiers. Runes are up to your preference. choice of healing skill (blood fiend or consume condition) depends on your choice of rune. I prefer centaur runes with blood fiend for permanent swiftness for me and my other minions. But theres other possibilities as well and consume conditions is still the most efficient by itself.

The only other variance I use besides though is changing near to death vs vital persistence. that all depends on how bursty my enemy composition is. (near to death is better against things like shatter mesmers and thieves in my experience being able to hop back into ds is a huge survival bonus. Yet against more long term oponents having the longer lasting life force pool is key against heavy sustain.

Works equally well in pve yet im currently using another setup for that.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNAW3IDN12VjfNs3mIaokOAOgCAyecAosG2BA-T5AIABAcRAE4JAUcZAA

The other setup that I have been using in pve recently ankitten ow testing in pvp (to decent results) is a 20606 build. It back loads the damage into death shroud instead of the minions and uses cavalier gear to make the best use of both the toughness to power conversion and also the high crit chance well have. Basically loading up on ferocity to make our in death shroud skills hurt like a truck.

Thanks to death nova our primary damaging minions (bone minions) still do there job perfectly as aoe pressure and debilitation. our other minions still do there jobs as cc bots perfectly as well (as well as the flesh wurm get out of jail free card) it just provides a more centered damage focus. And it seems to confuse ALOT of people I fight. Wouldn’t surprise me if other MMs are using this more often in pve now as well.

With vital persistence we can fire off ALOT of life blasts which means alot of crits and alot of might as the fight progresses. The high ferocity gives us the feel of a more power focused build while still having the extreme toughness levels that MMs are known for. The improved life force pool combined with the extra life force we gain from deaths means were almost immortal in any form of pve whatsoever. And our cc bot minions work just fine to keep us topped off. Your a bit more susceptible to condi nukes so being able to land dagger and staff 4 will become a second nature part of your survival. Closest ive found to a true MM/DS Hybrid. CC and tankiness from the minions and death magic while still having the high crits that makes DS necros dangerous. Also it has one thing most DS builds lack ive seen. Wide area and rapid poison application.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNAW3IDN12VjfNs3mIaokOAOgCAqek6aYH6UA-TJBFABCcQAc4JAIdZAAuAAAA

Cannons are useful mostly as a method of slowing down or dettering forces you already know are coming. So a scout says (big group inc to our keep) you can waypoint back and be on the cannon before they even enter line of sight. at that point you start firing before they even have eyes on your cannons and hopefully break there momentum. They aren’t meant to stop a force completely. Just to make them hesitate for a moment in order to buy time. They ARE powerful which is why there often targeted early. Being able to be on the cannon before the enemy is even in range of it will up the effectiveness alot.

TL;DR cannons are useful as long as you have people keeping eyes on anything heading to your keep. Id say there most useful in higher tier servers where you can have a zerg ready to engage them outside of your walls. This keeps the enemy in your killing zone.

Eh Blackari I can’t really say thats true. Its more people expected it simply because other games had it. But its not some massive earthshattering thing the game needed to become established. Its a QOL thing at most.

Now however it might be worth implementing. The game is established and for the first time a situation MIGHT, <—- key word here, occur that makes it an item worthy of resources to develop.

And keep in mind it DOES take time away from other things to implement. The pros of dueling HAVE to outweigh the pros of whatever else they intended to add with those resources or else its just a bad buisness decision and itl be back burnered and slowly developed over time if at all. (this is just from my understanding of the business world as well as a logical leap. If this is not infact the way the situation is likely to be handled feel free to provide an argument against this.)

Keep in mind there was never a point until now that a player could HONESTLY say they didn’t have anything to do. Just now in the new system theyv decided to address issues head on (something weve been asking for for a long time now everyone is kittening about it) and the result is a POSSIBILITY for 5-10 minutes (at a stretch if the new methods work properly.) of a player staying in a lobby like area waiting to be called. I would argue that is a normal aspect of pvp and exists in kitten near any game but lets hold off on that until we need it.

As such dueling hasn’t had even the possibility of necessity in GW2 until now. So we can’t honestly say it should have been added in the beggining since adding dueling would have meant NOT adding some other feature we take granted today.

Part of why I still hope they push to turn jagged horrors into a threat in some way :P thats just me though

Yeah but due to there number they wouldn’t be able to work with death nova. And I don’t believe thats possible unless they change ALL jagged horrors to not proc death nova. Getting rid of practically hte only reason worth bringing them (poison aoe time bombs) Bone minions are strong enough and theres only two of htem. Imagine having 6-7 of htem going off all at once under someone. That would be stupidly op since its also an aoe. Doubt we could get away with that even on our elite (since our elite already has a very powerful single target/piercing attack.

True. Thats more due to the limitation of the spell and jagged horrors themselves. For some reason Anet decided to put a cap not only on how many you can have at once (Making it iffy for MMs to try lich form for it because if htey already have x amount of jagged horrors out they might not get the full effect of the skill) but its also difficult to create a reliable force of jagged horrors OUTSIDE of lich form as well due to the really WIERD cooldown they have. (Once per death every x seconds….Why not just one per death? The only way that would ever be powerful is in WvW and then hey FINALLY a method for a minion necro to actually do something in wvw besides be laughed at and killed.

Combine that with there slow attack speed. Wierd hit boxes. And the fact that they suffer from the same AI bugs that the other minions do (occasionally standing still instead of engaging for the duration of a fight) makes mark of horror….unreliable.

Id rather see improvements made to jagged horrors to make the spell worth using. Either allowing us to have more of them to account for there low damage (since there only ever dangerous in a swarm anyway and if you LET a mm get 6+ jagged horrors over time you DESERVE to lose the fight) or making them into something the enemy will actually take into account instead of the current (oh wow I have a stack of bleed from something with negligible condi damage oh how scary.) If we could actually get a decent number of them rolling I could see them being used in conjunction with lich form to create a swarm effect with them. (I killed 6 enemies and have 6 jagged horrors with the first one about to despawn. I go into lich and pop out alot more and they create high bleed stacks on my target)

If they can’t improve jagged horrors however. Then yeah atm mark of horror servers little to no purpose in any aspect of the game. Jagged horrors just dont DO enough to be work counting on.

Its mostly because the minions summoned by mark of horror are infact jagged horror’s not bone minions (the same jagged horrors summoned by death nova). Also. Being able to nuke jagged horrors wouldpretty much gib anyone not a full health bunker. It would be….hilariously powerful.

^ this is the kind of thinking we should be having. I wouldn’t mind seeing a dueling mechanic added to the game. Or an Arena location added to HoTM where anyone can enter and fight. (No combat outside of arena FFA inside) meaning people could enter and fight whenever they wanted to to test themselves against whatever is there while waiting for a match. (A use for the now unused underwater training area?)

Im sure whatever we think of would take time to implement. but its better than whining about something thats going to change the current system before its even been implemented yet.

Forsight is good. Dueling/an open arena would help relieve boredom if que times are long during certain times of the day. And its something ANET could think about in the future if it a problem DOES arise from this situation.

From what I understand that much magic running around is a really bad idea. Theres many parralels in fantasy literature to “wild magic” usually reffered to as times of extreme stress. In those literature works spontaneous combustion whats actually a possibility when you woke up in the morning.

When I look at tyria though magic tends to condence. This means that the expelled magic of just elder dragon would eventually create a cataclysm event similar to a dragon waking up. But what if the released energy was that of 2…or 3 elder dragons. The results of release of force aren’t always proportional. It could be exponential in this case. The energy of three elder dragons rupturing in one place could be enough to blow a hole all the way to the mantle.

Talk about a bad day o.O

Instead of a leap or teleport id really like a pull. Necros are designed around a pretty continuous movement speed but we have ALOT of tools to make our RELATIVE movement speed go through the roof. (Large access to immobilize cripple and chill).

A pull would be a good way to maintain that process in a big “I couldn’t care less how fast you are now get over here so I can ram this greatsword into your chest cavity” kind of way.

If it was a tether mechanic that would be even better as one of the things I hope to make if we do get a greatsword is a NEW front line necro build for wvw. (like the polar opposite of a guardian). If im hitting someone in a zerg and he starts to run away to the safety of his blob I can already see me using a tether type ability to say “lol nope” and end the guy. Also a three cleave melee weapon would actually be decent for high power life steal builds. (return of the point blank vampiric wells?)

All in all though just interested in seeing what builds we could come up with for such a weapon.

Im not sure why this seems to be so difficult for people to accept. It seems a pretty normal situation to me. If you sign up for a rated match you are expected to be there and ready when it pops. At the moment you que your no longer the only person taken into account.

Theres NINE other people whos enjoyment of the game requires you to be there and ready to enter the match and STAY in the match. To expect to be able to disconnect from a rated match, or simply hop out of the que multiple times without punishment is selfish and foolish. If you que with that kind of mindest your risking the enjoyment of nine other people. If your going to sign up for multiplayer combat. The absolute least you can do is be prepared to play it through.

Another thing. People complain about que times enough as it is. Imagine the rage youl feel when 9 out of 10 people are ready but you have to wait 30 seconds to a minute on top of your que time for some kitten in another part of a game to decide to enter for whatever reason. I can tell ya when im in a game waiting for that last person to enter is an annoying and worrying thing. Because until all 5 members are in for both teams it already FEELS like a 4v5.

? Problems? I’ve been playing necro since the first day of the open beta haha. Im experienced enough that ive figured out any “problems” ive run into so you don’t need to patronize me. I wasn’t referring to necros in this game being weak by any means. I can kill kitten near anyone I choose to in a 1v1 or atleast hurt the kitten severely even if I lose.

What I was referring to was the inbuilt limitations put into us for balance reasons. Which as a gamer I 100% accept and understand. But as a necromancer lover im annoyed by them. Thats all. From a purely balance standpoint this game is as close as ive seen anyone get without pushing us over the edge to being actually equal with other classes. (Which they have pretty big reasons not to) That means that those of us necros that stick with it and become experienced can do pretty much whatever the hell we want.

But at the same time even in the more balanced version of the game we have today its still rare to see a necro in a team que 5v5 from an actual team. Most I encounter are random fifths. The day we actually take significant priority over another class in a role (bunker,assaulter,point holder, burster etc…) will most likely be the day the entire community starts screaming about how OP necros are. For the simple reason a well played necro often isn’t a FUN opponent to fight (and we like it like that)

hatuey anyone can walk up to the portal and enter. its a known thing. an experienced player knows this. A new player does not. This acts as a method for an experienced player to enter hotm even on an underleveled character. But a new player won’t enter Hotm on an underleveled character likely because they probably won’t encounter that specific gate until there there at or near the level in question

(I know whenever I join a new game I usually burn through the first 20 levels in the first day or so in a nonstop playing spree.)

Suffice to say. Its not really a big deal. For new players theres something they dont have to worry about yet and there encouraged NOT to worry about it till there experienced enough to handle it. For old players they just turn around and run into there city.

hatuey I can’t even call this true restriction. Niether can you if you look at it. This sounds like a “this is different than how I want it to be and anything different from how I want it to be is bad because it is” rant.

As BLUna said. if you go to a HotM portal it unlocks hotm immediately. And I honestly agree that new players SHOULD NOT be entering rated pvp before they have some experience. Note that this isn’t for experienced players but new players. Experienced pvpers will likely have lvling tomes out the kitten to get there people over that threshold.

I have no problem with new players entering Hotjoin or anything like that. But with the upcoming changes and the change to Rated Arenas instead of solo que team que I fully endorse making sure players have a MINIMUM level of experience in the game before being able to enter. Or else when they enter the new rated arenas itl be a death sentence for there team mates.

I guess what im saying is. I understand why this was made the way it was. In preparation for the new form of rated matches. This has MINIMAL impact on any experienced pvper.

There not forcing you to do anything if youve already been playing the game for awhile. They give you the tools to get around that in game and available to anyone.

Its only for new players so they don’t kitten over 4-9 other people game just because they can’t understand how much they havn’t learned yet.

Although this game has a pretty good version of it. I just wish theyd take the kitten shackles off us already. But I know they can’t because wel be PERCIEVED as O.P. due to the nature of our combat even when we really arn’t.

Pregnantman sadly necro playstyle (debilitations…controls…attrition) often are considered to be “cheap” play. Essentially a necro takes an enemies strengths and negates it. To use this game as an example. The MM that uses death nova to have permanent weakness on a warrior. The wellomancer that strips away everything a support guard does. The powermancer that is capable of absorbing burst and using it to fuel his own.

Generally necros are very fun to play for those of us that get into it. But not so fun to play for those that fight us. I mean comeon. Just look at what we can do. Our skill tree should be called “Big wall of things to stop our opponent from being effective or at the very least FEELING effective”.

Most dark mages archetypes are like that. Often there debilitators or dot dealers. Sometimes summoners/controllers. From what I can tell putting a class like us into the game is…kind of a risk. You either have to keep it underpowered yet let it FEEL like its effective. Or have it be just as powerful and have it be something that acts as a gigantic feeling of “nope” on the battlefield.

To awnser your question. In all honestly I don’t know of any that actually has the FEEL of a necro without being nerfed into obvlivion because of whiny pricks that can’t be bothered to understand the difference between being fear chained to death (counterable with multiple stability sources/stunbreaks) and actually attritioned to death. (You keep hitting him but you feel like your situation is only getting worse the longer you fight.) Im hoping EQN has a necro or atleast a dark mage class worth mentioning in the future. Would be nice.

kitten I miss my shambling horde from gw1 during gvgs. All I had to say to our bursters was (Bring my bodies) and the army grew and grew and grew until I had something almost the size of our team ready to smash into the enemy teams side.

Most satisfying use of death magic as a command and control style player ive ever had.

hmm that would be fine if he hadn’t specified he wanted an MM build o.O

Bone minions with death nova alone completely nuetralize a group of wolves even if they have mender support. The poison nukes the healing. and the explosions themselves do a health chunk of damage in an aoe. The increased l.f. gain as well that death magic users get as well makes life force almost constantly maxed out no matter what your trait setup. this is especially useful in my 40604 build.

Teragriffs are easily nuetralized by necros thats true. but havin extra toughness goes a LONG way when you have 3-4 of them on you. and when your fighting inside a large group of mordrem having flash of hte master can be really key. Otherwise your bone minions can die before there implemented properly. your bone fiend,shadow fiend can get clipped and taken out. leaving you without a utility. since all mordrem cleave this is a pretty common issue Ive seen other MM users have. Just having FOTM helps ALOT. (even in its current bugged state).

Id honestly say the survivability you gain from taking death magic atleast cancels out the dps loss. Since open world events care more about how long you can stay effective on the field and not how fast you can kill one specific mob out of 60. Especially since as a MM necro your unlikely to be engaging less than 4 mordrem at a time. If your 1v1ning mordrem as a minion master your really wasting your potential ya know?

In open world were probably the best there is at fighting and killing large numbers of computer enemies at once. Especially when we build with that in mind.

spoj I think that death magic traits have some merits in the kind of fighting that the silver wastes has introduced. large scale spread out fighting. Its not hte instant death for MMs that the wvw blobs is but at the same time its the kind of place where ive seen many glassier people get nuked. Theres something to be said for death magic traits (minion master atleast but death nova is ALOT of help as well (weakness bombs)) if were going to get more zones like silverwastes.

Glad you found some of what your lookin for paraxes. If I run into ya I may ask ya what ya decided to do in the end. Ive seen more variations of MM than I have any other build in this game. and its always interesting to see what a new MMancer will make.

As for armor. Depends on what you want to be doing. If your planning on being surrounded by mordrem id go ahead and take a Knights set. With a necros base high health pool we benefit alot from toughness and nights lets you make plenty of crits and high power damage. MMs especially so. If your going to be focusing on dungeons later on though. Well the current meta is zerker or bust. However ever since ive switched to knights ive found myself being ALOT more effective when actually playing as an MM Necro as apposed to just another generic dpser.

Currently using a 4-0-6-0-4 MM build. Been alot of fun so far. Its nice not being AS dependent on hte minions for when they decide to bug out a ltitle.

Always be willing to experiment. Keep in mind that the meta builds are simply the well worn paths. They aren’t popular because there the best performing or the most fun. There metas because there Well performing despite being simple to pull off.

I.E The average player can play them and still feel like there in the top league.

Keep experimenting even if it takes you away from the meta until you find something that works for you. The moment the majority of the class settles in one thing we we end up with hambows. Very few people can play hambow perfectly but ANY warrior can play hambow “well”.

Another thing with experimenting and creating unique setups is your less likely to be horribly butchered by nerf bat. So theres a sense of security in playing a little know build as well. Or having a build that takes a little from multiple trees. Any one nerf round doesn’t hit as hard that way.

Elleven.6541:

I am also looking for some suggestion as to pet selection.

I am currently running 2/6/6/0/0 trap build.

I don’t know what pet will help, any ideas?

Thanks

Id probably reccomend a bird as its what ive seen most trappers using. Adding high physical damage to your condi damage. However it would prob be best if one of the rangers that main condi/hybrid builds put there two cents in here. I don’t usually play those so I can’t say for sure.

In spvp I cant use zealots. But Ive used hte same build both with assassin’s and clerics amulet. Cleric turns you into a kitten fine bunker and since half your damage is outsourced and kitten near unavoidable you can still kill just fine with a wolf.

I don’t usually need much condi removal since the things that can overpower the sheer kittenton of heals I have would have killed me even if id been using a standard condi bm build using empathic bond.

I can see what your saying on the hybridy and its your own thing. For me personally though ive never been able to stand using condi builds. I generally try to make Power/Support or Power/Control hybrids instead of Power/Condi ones.

One thing I have to say is ALOT of hte damage from this build comes from using SotW to turn your pet into an absolute monster. Not having signet mastery makes your burst harder to implement for each fight. Id really have to reccomend having that trait if your gonna use the utilities I laid out. Other than that your build looks well setup. Id be interested in fighting it.

Edit: The premise behind my build was to use zealots (pve,WvW) or clerics (TPvP) To increase my survivability and the useability of my pet without sacrificing too much of my damage. So I outsourced part of my damage to the pet itself (since its more reliable with this setup) And worked to make sure I could turn it into something capable of killing a player. During fights I act as a sustained damage platform to keep pressure on the enemy player while the pet nukes (SotW+25 stacks of masters bond+10-15 stacks of might+sic’em=dead kitten near anything not a bunker)

In Tpvp Ill usually trade companions might for hte pet speed increase however. just to help it stay on target.

Edit: My overal survivability is weak to burst but has some pretty long sustain. Itl require you to be good at active defense and positioning. But other than that your raw healing will help you in MANY situations despite your lower than average health and toughness pools.