Guild Wars 2

I hate to say it. But this WILL be abused by the playerbase to weed out anyone that have even the slightest issue with. Not having it checked will be seen as a sign of guilt and get you kicked from many groups. Having it checked means you had better be running the build they want you to run or you will be kicked from many groups.

haha honey badger >.< god thats as apt description for it as any. Id LOVE to see a badger pet get added to this game for rangers. (F2 Frenzy: kitten up everything in line of sight. Friend or foe…even the ranger itself…Honey Badger doesn’t give a kitten)

dicrim. THe main think is that what your saying isn’t possible. Aside from lich form and flesh golem those are the only possible ways for you to be knocked around by a necro. Necros have a single pull that might have been it. But I kinda doubt it as youd notice being chilled.

The only possibility is that there was another enemy htere doing the knocking. Necros simply dont DO hard cc. its not there thing.

Cynz.9437:

enjoy amazing flesh golem knocking you over 3 times in a row even behind wall, under stairs, through dodge and what not… the unstoppable force!

Flesh golem now only knocks back on its first contact with an oponent unless a person is hit with both the charge AND the final attack. (two seperate parts of the skill). So the day so if the repeated knockdown into a wall are over sadly.

They do still tend to knockdown in a seeming “pulse” infront of them on that final attack however. But no weirder than being knockbacked by an engis flamethrower air blast through a 400 range think pillar.

Cynz.9437:

but you can’t deny the fact that as trade off for all that moblity thieves lose survival (a lot of it in fact) and dmg (ranged especially)

Actually I can. Becuase your movement GIVES you survivability. Its a part of it. Theives can actually survive through movement. And they do it every day.

Cynz.9437:

Shadelang.3012:

I think we can all agree that in comparison the rangers options for swiftness (in ANY of our builds) come at more of a drawback for less performance than nearly any other class out there?

um
thief has to use initiative sacrificing survivability and dmg
has to sacrifice utility slots for moblity
has to use F1 spell for gap closer
and they have crappiest ranged options in game

should i continue?

Thief mobility is also EXTREMELY good at keeping them alive. They also have the ability to move vertically across a map. Meaning they can cross distances much faster than most classes.

Thief mobility does exactly what its meant to. Im not saying you dont trade off something. But its not something you wouldnt have taken anyway in most cases. Thats because of how blatantly useful it is. Thief mobility is part of what makes them such a massive pain to fight. Also part of why the class is considered one of the most dangerous things on the field.

I dont think ive ever met a thief that actually had an issue reaching his target or getting away as long as he had the awareness to know he NEEDED to get away.

Edit: The f1 you mentioned also has the potential of being one of hte most powerful class mechanics in the game. Being able to be set up to do a large variety of different things on use. Steal factors heavily into most of your top builds last I checked (it has been awhile).

As for needing it to close gaps. You act like thats a drawback. Steal is so powerful when used correctly that youd be a fool NOT to use it to its utmost at the right times. You don’t “sacrifice” steal to close gaps. Its a part of your attacks.

Edit:Edit: Im also fairly certain thieves have more than steal to close gaps with o.O. Im not even gonna mention stealth. You have more than one method of closing gaps. Nearly all of htem are efficient and actually worth taking if you want them.

I think we can all agree that in comparison the rangers options for swiftness (in ANY of our builds) come at more of a drawback for less performance than nearly any other class out there?

With the possible exception of traited shouts? But that involves taking a nearly useless utility and its brought for regen NOT swiftness.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

I’ve been suggesting this since they redesigned them.

Before the redesign their damage was pitiful but at least they couldn’t die.

Now they die in seconds to cleave & the only real useful one is shield in a few very niche PvE encounters.

What they really need to do is consolidate the traits (having to spend the majority of your traits on something so unreliable is just bad) & add/merge to one of the traits "Also increases your spirit weapons health by 100%. (Similar to what the rangers have)

Or even better idea, they could just redesign them completely.

Personally I’d love to see them either

1: Be made more akin to ele conjure weapons, they would give you more attack skills, last for a set amount of time (non charges unlike ele) and could not be maintained indefinitely unless fully traited for. (Also would have CD start as soon as summoned, but would not create a second version on ground like ele conjure weapons.)
or
2: Have them be made more akin to banners. They would be invulnerable, give a stat boost to allies around them (one stat, not 2 like banners), follow the guardian & could be commanded to grant a special effect in area, or to nearby allies.

Your second idea is more in line with what I think they could be. I kinda invision them acting as buffs. Attacking with the guard for example. (Guard uses sword of justice and attacks. The sword also swings at the same target) While they float over guardians shoulder. And there active effects act more as ‘beacon’ skills. (activated sword of justice lodges into the ground and pulses vuln to nearby enemies for 5 seconds. Deals damage with each pulse. Similar to a mobile symbol) (Bow of truth passive cleanses conditions from anyone in close vicinity to the guardian. Fires one arrow at the guardian and one at an ally with each shot) (Bow of truth begins to scatter a large barrage of healing arrows into the area around the guardian healing both the guardian and all nearby allies)

Theyd lose some of the benefits of being outside sources. But be MUCH more reliable since you wouldnt have to worry about them accidentally dieing when no one was even attacking them directly.

Why not style? SW Guard is the most active of the AI builds. Id rather have them running around than turret engineers at the moment. I dont know about increased health. But a resistance to raw physical damage would be nice. And htere low HP pools would keep them weak to conditions. Direct and available counterplay.

style.6173:

someone.7485:

It is your job to ‘shut-down’ the turrets while the engi is not there to protect the turrets. Deactivating the turrets if the engi is not there would reduce the utility of the turrets significantly. This would basically make the turret engi build even more glued to a point than they currently are. Why would you want to reduce the amount of strategy that can be used.

Yeah, because we go into PvP to fight PvE.

Thats the kind of mentality thats gonna lose you those fights.

Dont see it as PvE. Its not. The decision to bring and put it there was made by a player. The decision to activate there abilities is made by a player. The decision to leave them behind on a point…is done by a player. Theres no difference between fighting a turret engis turrets than there is dodging out of a rangers traps. Or kiting out a warriors stances. Or destroying a mesmers phantasmal beserker.

Its a different method to PvP. And the more you dismiss it as PvE The more likely that player is gonna use them in a combo you havnt seen or bothered to pay attention to and kill you.

Mate people have been saying to either zerg or ignore the turret engi ever since they got buffed. Theres a reason for that. Because it works.

As for them “rotating and respawning turrets” have you forgotten what were talking here? The very reason turret engis dont make it to high level play is because they CANT rotate effectively against anyone with the map awareness of a mule. Hell im not even a top player and once I know theres a turret engi on a point I watch that point for hte rest of the game for him to leave. Other than that i just take another point.

As for them respawning turrets. In this situation you dont even have to worry about hte turrets. just call your target and hit him with attacks from 3 different people and hes dead. Always. Turret engis have NOTHING to juke with except for an annoying to pull off stealth trick with flame turret active that doesnt even work half the time if your taking accelerent packed turrets. They have no blocks. No massive healing. No heavy condi cleanse. Meaning you can kill them with any attack of your choice. The worst thatl happen is you might get thumped once but in that situation it should even matter.

This works if theres one or three turret engineers unless there all in TS and coordinating CCs and cooldowns to take down targets. Which means HEY there outplaying you.

Haleth.7543:

Did you not read what I said? The same situation was going on in other points and we were unable to cap anything because of turret bunker engis.

Haleth.7543:

You had difficulty decapping a node that was completely unguarded because of a few AI turrets from a worthless build! And then you come onto the 4ums to complain how OP this worthless build is and ask for nerfs! Very interesting!

The node wasn’t completely unguarded. It was guarded by a thief who I could not remove from the point, and I was unable to even approach the point without taking three or four rockets, nets, flames, and other shenannigans in the face. In addition the healing turret made it much simpler for the thief to stay on point, while I was unable to do any damage or rotate out because of the same situation on other points.

Where in the world did you say anything about multiple turret engis? I dont see a single thing here about that.

Are you going to claim there was one on each point? Strange if theres one on each point than means atleast two engis are running around with there utilities being useless when you do the SIMPLEST thing in the game. Zerg. You put 5 people on one point. Kill the kittens there. And move to the next. Its pathetically easy to zerg turret engis unless they are VERY well organized together. Which is another case of them outplaying you and not the class being overpowered.

Lets think about this logically. In this situation where theres a turret engi on every point you could go to thats three engineers. You also claimed there was a thief defending the point. That means they have 3 turret engineers and a thief. If they have turrets up on every point. That means that each engineer is running with there utilities being left behind. So if theres a 4v4 on home while you were getting BUTCHERED at far. Two of the three engineers on home are acting as half a player. Meaning its actually a 4v3. (infact your team probably had even more of an advantage) and thats assuming mid is completely open for you to take except for a bit of scrap metal. (Why you wouldnt go mid instead of trying to fight the thief I will never undesrtand)

And thats the worst case scenario for you. Your team should have EASILY wiped them at home. Then crushed any resistance they could muster at mid. Hell you should have taken mid WHILE they crushed them at home. Meaning you could have decapped mid and had any turrets there dead by the time the thief on far reached you.

In that scenario if you still lots its because you got outplayed….hard. Your team payed as little attention as you did.

Now. Assuming there was an actual turret engineer defending mid with his turrets. Then YOU could have some trouble. But your team would be having a 4vs2.5 on home…..No excuses there either.

Wanna know what I think happened? I think your entire team tried to be heroes. I think you sent people to each point instead of actually acting like a team and calmly steamrolling the map. Take a point. leave someone behind to engage the next person to come at it and take the next point. In this case your team got butchered because 3 of you tried to perform small scale fighting on tiny circles against builds designed for exactly that situation.

Again. In EVERY situation. You got outplayed by turret engineers.

Your not helping your case mate. It just makes you sound even more foolish for attacking a defended point instead of hunting down the now utility lacking engineer. As hard as this may be for you to accept. That engineer outplayed you. Probably without even knowing you were there. There was nothing stopping you from hitting a different point. Leaving both the thief AND the turrets behind. Thats 1.5 people they didnt have on other points. It was YOUR mistake. Not the strength of the turrets that lost you that fight.

As for it being “passive braindead AI” id say the person dieing to it is far more passive and braindead. Meaning that player is a hell of a lot smarter AND more active than you were in the match.

a t s e. They are NOT overpowered. They never have been. They never will be. Because they only fulfill ONE roll. Area denial. They secure a single point. And thats all they do. Thats all they ever do. Thats all the build CAN do.

People say L2P when people die to turret engineers because Turret engis are countered by the simplest thing a person can possibly do….There countered by being ignored.

If a turret eng is on mid go home and far. As long as your team is compotenet youl win the 4v4 on far and then just kill the enemy as they trickle in. That leaves one person that can sit halfway between home and mid and watch the engi. If the engi leaves run in and decap. If the engi goes to home they can engage before the engi gets there. KIll them AND take the mid point. Otherwise they can sit there until someone on the other team trys to steal home and then defend home in that case while there team now wins the 4v3 on far.

There are two possibilities. Either A: Your team is less skilled than the other team and you lose the 4v4 on far. or B: Your team is more skilled than the other team and you win the 4v4 on far.

What this means is that turret engineers are strong in low/mid tier pvp because the people in that area of pvp just aren’t capable of realising that they dont have to have that point to win. Or there not experienced enough to find it out yet.

Meaning turret engineers are only a strong part of a comp when there opponents are either bad or new.

Turrets are strong in 1v1s on a point becuase there meant to be. There designed to be strong in that specific situation. Its the entire purpose of turrets. Hell its the purpose of turrets in any game I have ever seen a turret used. Even in FPS. They also dedicate there entire builds to that one role. That one position. Meaning they cant do ANYTHING ELSE even remotely as effectively as other classes.

ouch ArrDee I was atleast gonna give him the benefit of the doubt and assume there was a bunker on it.

Honestly doing what the OP suggest would destory the point of having “turrets” in the first place. If were gonna do that we might as well say ranger traps cant be active when the ranger isnt there. But there traps arent they? The entire point is to leave them there for someone to step on right? Same deal with turrets.

Im assuming your kitteny because the engineer left his turrets to grant dps to a bunker guard while he assisted a push on another point. In other words your kitteny because the turret engineer did his kitten job and he did it WELL. Thats EXACTLY what he should have done in that situation. Let me put this to you though. If you attempted to push that point anyway then your a fool.

Instead you could have gone and helped the point that engi was assaulting and effing killed him. Hes an engineer running around without utilities. Meaning hes a walking corpse. Meanign hes a free kill and a free rally and VERY likely a free capture point. That you didn’t and instead came to the forum to complain about it speaks wonders.

Warrior (Has the ability to resist slowing conditions and a damage immunity/stability source to enable them to use movement skills to close 1200 range in less that 3 seconds)

Thief (Has the ability to close 1200 in less than a second all while stealthed. Making them infinitly better at the roaming,burst role than rangers atm….they also hit just as hard with much more survivability. They also have the ability to move vertically across the map. Making LoSing a ranger extremely easy.)

Mesmer (Has the ability move vertically across the map. Has access to invulns. Has the ability to reflect. Has the ability to create copies of himself. Has the ability to stealth over significant distances (less than the thief usually).

Guardian (There damage meta possesses an ability to cross a 1200 range gap instantly. They also possess some of the best resistance to projectiles in the game. They also have the ability to teleport and leap. There Bunker/support Meta can frankly ignore a longbow ranger unless theres a person attacking them in melee WITH THEM)

Engineer (I shouldn’t have to explain why engineers are so good against longbow rangers. Toolkit pull and Grenade kit ALONE not even counting there blocks,reflects,ccs are enough to counter a longbow ranger.) 1200 range is worthless against an even slightly competent engineer.

Which means the only class that the range is a boon against are necromancers…..Thats it. 1200 range is like hiding behind a paper wall. It only works as long as no one knows your there. Because anyone can tear it apart like tissue paper in an instant.

And all of these are things they bring as part of there normal builds. They are NOT “sacrificing” important utilities to gain it. They either would have brought it anyway. Or what they gave up wasn’t worth much to them in the current meta anyway. None of them really have to work especially hard or give up anything vital to counter that 1200 range “gap”.

Theres a reason most people who complain about longbow rangers are told its a L2P issue.

Lets not forget that a ranger who chose to use a longbow is CHAINED at max range. Because they gave up 3-6 traits to make there ranged attacks even SLIGHTLY dangerous and probably most if not all of there utilities to get them a one in ten chance of surviving against the inevitable when that triple kit engi notices hes up there.

Edit: I didn’t mention elementalists because anyone that thinks rangers have it good there. Has never used a longbow build against a D/D ellie who knows what hes doing.

Drakril. The sad part is all of what your speaking of are either combat only or things we have to save for combat.

You mentioned the bird. The bird only uses quickening screech when its attacking. If it was our f2 then maybe youd be on to something. Sadly it isn’t. Rangers use the wolves becuase there largely the only USEFUL pets available to us. Birds are primarily used by heavy healing builds because they tend to ACCIDENTALLY die if your not running said build.

The leaps you mentioned are bound to our melee weapons. Meaning one we HAVE to take either a gs or a sword with us. The sword mobility is clumsy at best. Requiring you to run away form your intended destination. Have you ever sword 2d away from a location only to evade right into a mesmer coming around a corner? Well you just burned one of your best chances at surviving that mesmer.

GS3 You might have something. However again GS 3 is one of our only methods of saving ourselves from quick bursts. If a thief starts hitting me from stealth I absolutely have to have greatsword 3 or hel probably kill me. Especially if hes S/D becuase counterattack is HARMFUL to use against a good S/D thief.

In both cases using those abilities for mobility is a far greater risk than there worth. Meaning we give up too much to use them. Its the same issue we have with taking a utility or rune to increase our speed. We lose FARRRRR too much for that trade off to EVER be worth it.

The stealth requires us to be hitting a foe. Which lowers are movement speed. The stealth doesnt last long enough to reposition correctly when your fighting ANYTHING with a gap closer.

Stab and immunity have nothing to do with this since those happen to be the things we HAVE TO TAKE IN ORDER TO SURVIVE. Meaning there the things we NEED that makes taking mobility impossible for us. I assume your talking about signet of the wild and signet of the stone. Since protect me is almost worthless and Rampage as one is a giant (CORRUPT/BOONSTEAL me NOW) sign for every mesmer,thief,necro on the planet.

As far rangers ability to (Burst 50% of your health at 1200+range in no time) I have to call you on that. The ONLY time this is possible is either in a ONE OFF build meaning a build dedicated to a single action. Where you pop every cooldown to make rapid fire stronger leaving you with NOTHING when its over. OR <—- if the person your fighting is glass.

What that means is the only people you can hit that hard with without dedicating every single trait and utility to it are the people that can hit you JUST as hard.

Before you say that 1200 range is an advantage in this game lets thing about some things. Read my next post

Props to Infantrydiv. Really.

Your saying that a statue covered in thorns is OP becuase you keep smashing your face into it….good job.

BrotherBelial.3094:

naiasonod.9265:

Shadelang.3012:

Guardian shield. Never have I seen so much potential in a defensive weapon and yet be completely unable to utilize it. Due to the situations it is useful being such that you cant take advantage of it because the effects either dont last long enough or simply arent ENOUGH to actually make a difference.

I echo this sentiment. And still I wonder why shield on guardian is so poorly thought out.

Try being a warrior. The cool downs on the skill are so long they make them one shot deals in most fights.

atleast your one shot deals DO something.

Guardian shield. Never have I seen so much potential in a defensive weapon and yet be completely unable to utilize it. Due to the situations it is useful being such that you cant take advantage of it because the effects either dont last long enough or simply arent ENOUGH to actually make a difference.

Im fine with thieves in general countering longbow rangers in a straight up fight. Largely because the longbow isnt a straight up fighting weapon. Its an ambush and +1 weapon. If a ranger with a longbow (ESPECIALLY if htat ranger is rolling sic em) comes up on a 1v1 between a thief and almost any class as long as that ranger positioned himself right so that the thief didnt see it coming that thief will have a VERY bad day.

We are VERY good at messing up thieves in the right situations.

There equally good at messing us up outside of those situations.

I think we just want the ability to make the right situation for ourselves more possible. Being able to quickly re position after a fight or when were spotted and someone moves to counter us will help with that ALOT.

Gotta love how the people against the changes simply point back at what they have already said without addressing any of the points people have brought up against them.

(The sky is red) uhh no its blue im looking at it and its a very nice shade of blue atm (but the sky is red "duh’) Dude im looking at it right now its blue (the sky is red though)

Im still hoping pets eventually gain “avoidance: Pet takes 70% reduced damage from attacks they are not the specific target of when attacked by melee attacks” but im not sure if thats gonna be a possibility in this games current combat system.

Prysin.8542:

Kilger.5490:

Prysin.8542:

just wanna note that trapper, using generosity sigils or purity sigils will draw against condi necro. However the strongest condi build for ranger is 02660 condition survival using SB or ST/AD, and a condimancer cannot apply conditions as fast, or as many stacks as fast, as the ranger can. In addition to this, said condi build is focused on surviving, so it is evasion heavy with 3-4 sources of active cleansing and often (not always) – empathic bond ontop of the active cleanses…. There is not many builds that can actually kill a survival ranger with conditions.

Thats what I run in spvp except hybrid with SotF and LR/Muddy Terrain/Entang for even more condition removal and still have had scarey moments where a necro reverse dumped everything in the book on me lol. Dont think they’ve won that way strictly 1-1 since also generally pressured by adds but I wouldnt be surprised.

necros can be nasty that way, however they got long cooldowns on most of their stuff, its just a matter of not nuking with all you got right off cooldown.

I cant stress how much this is true. After playing both classes since beta My favorite trick on EITHER has to go to the necro condi transfer. It is so rare for people to actually work to avoid this making killing with it so easy sometimes. IN TPvP Ill occasionaly come acrossa condi build thats aware of what dagger 4 does. But in TPvP i never try to condi trasnfer to my primary target >.< id rather send dagger 4 or staff 4 onto the guy halfway across the circle in foefire so I have a guaranteed condi cleanse instead of something thatl probably get blocked/dodged by the guy infront of me…Or send it at a ranger pet.

I love my 62006 Zealot ranger BM/Power build. But the sheer amount of free kills I get on my necro by condi players blowing all of there procs on me at once is glorious.

(Ill be honest I have a hard time seeing a ranger dealing reliable damage (I have no doubt they can do high damage without it. But getting the attacks to connect is another issue in TPvP Or WvW roaming) with a longbow outside of rare circumstances without read the wind. After playing ranger without that trait for the first 3/4s of the game there were so many times Id enter a fight knowing over half my arrows would accidentally miss just by people moving around normally in combat.)

Both longbow and shortbow have decent builds dedicated them theres the 6xx6x survival build for longbow (as well as some other variants nearly all have 6 in marksman for read hte wind however) and theres also several with the shortbow as the dedicated weapon as well (I cant think of them at this time).

All I ask before you pick them up is remember that the fighting style is more about positioning and carefully choosing your targets than it is about muscle memory and twitch reactions. If you have set yourself up correctly you have already half won. I see too many rangers try to treat the archer playstyle the same way the would a melee burst build. Doesnt work to well when you realize your exposed and a very kittened off S/D thief is coming at you.

Jim Hunter.6821:

What’s really funny is using epidemic on the pet right after a ranger clears conditions with signet of renewal.
Well… funny if you are the necro. Very annoying if you are the ranger.

^ I feel alot of people would find hte condi regen rangers alot less trouble if they remembered that the pet is a free condi bounce. It spends so much time acting as a condi soak for the ranger in that build. And most condi rangers dont pay attention to it at all excpet to activate f2s unlike the Power and Cleric BM builds.

Haha Normally I only use that word to describe builds that take from every pot and do it disproportionately well. I dont see power as cheesy mostly because it has several glaring weaknesses that are very obvious and very well known and can be taken advantage of by any class. I only refer to the condi build as cheesy largely because its weaknesses simply aren’t well developed or applicable by most builds and classes.

You HAVE to massively outplay the player to win unless your running a build that happens to hard counter it.

And even if you outskill your opponent if your on the wrong build its simply death. I mostly dislike it because it reminds of what people used to call (build wars) back when I was in gw1. Builds that were basically so far outperforming of anything else that unless you were a specific X build you might as well not engage it.

EDIT : On further considering it the crucial weakness of the condi ranger regen build is that its almost completely reliant on the pet for not only its physical damage but a large amount of its condi clear as well… For a necro atleast if you know your fighting one take a staff and a pair of daggers. let the ranger condi load you as much as he wants and transfer them to his pet. That pet will die very quickly and it cant evade spam away from condi transfers like his master can. Once the pets down you SHOULD be able to chill/immob/weakness chain the ranger like you would a power ranger. Then you can start hitting HIM with condi transfers instead. Just an idea

First In response to it being focused specifically on the condi regen build. On that I apologize I misread the post in reference to a previous post I was considering. That is my fault.

On natural healing. I have never seen a single ranger use compassion training in a build outside of a very specific build.

It is true that rangers have many ways to regen. but its also true that necros are the best in the game at nuking healing.

Its true that bird f2 burst is quite nice. But its also true that you can two shot that bird in most power builds. Put both there birds on cooldown and your fairly set.

As far as the condi build itself goes. Ill be the first to say thats one of the cheesiest builds in the game as far as WvW roaming is concerned. Ill be the first to admit Ive died to that. Mostly because that build has literraly EVERYTHING. Honestly thats the ONE build a ranger has that I wouldnt be upset seeing a nerf directed at. And I play my ranger just as much as I do my necro.

Again I apologize for misunderstanding your previous post. What I said what largely in the context of fighting a power based ranger build. However like I said above that condi build is a whole nother level of easy mode gamestyle I never want anything to do with. The one week I played it I couldn’t stop feeling disgusted at myself.

Solstice.1097:

so many longbow rangers out there right now. it is getting annoying already let alone giving them buffs.

Hate to tell ya mate but the archer archetype has been a popular one for a really long thing for people that prefer positioning over muscle memory. Especially since its only just recently become something even close to viable. Now people that have wanted to play it but have never been able to due to the the pathetic performance actually have a chance. So your seeing alot of people with (in some cases) years of experience at playing archer classes finally getting the playstyle they have wanted all along. Dont expect them to give it up any time soon.

And thats despite the face that archer rangers are still significantly weaker than the melee/condi alternatives. Primarily because there so reliant on positioning.

The ONLY thing increasing movement speed would due to archer rangers in particular (since that seems to be the only build your worried about?) is allow them to re position themselves to deal with certain SLOW enemies.

It wont do anything at all to protect them against

Thieves(all builds),

Warriors(stance builds or any build with resistance to movement impairment (last I checked all of them)),

Mesmers(Stealth shatter burst will still be just as effective as it is now),

Guardians (Meditation guards will have no problem with),

Engineers (tool kit,chill grenades,immobs,stuns, cripples will all negate the speed increase),

Conquest mode in general (itl help rangers get from point to point faster but theyl still primarily be +1ners instead of node fighters)

GhOst.4019:

Let’s see. This is how it should work (it doesn’t). Class that has to mele the most, gets highest mobility. Class that has to mele the least, has ranged attacks for 1500 in rabid fire succession, gets the least mobility.

I have to run 1500 further than you before I can start attacking, then I am in the middle of the kitt, have less mobility than you, less stun break with practically no escape and you come to ask for mobility buffs?

LOL
Suck it up

Hmm….you know….what your saying….MIGHT make sense if there were not a effing MASSIVE amount of gap closers in the game. Also if there werent more methods of taking out ranged attacks than melee attacks. Also if being ranged didnt rely on you being full glass and giving up most of your defenses. Also if nearly every class in the game didnt have the ability to take a weapon that counters that attack.

Its a shame. But sadly all of those are true. Meaning what your saying does NOT make sense.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Kilger.5490:

I used to main a power necro and ranger was one of the easiest targets. Fight aggressively and you will win. I actually main ranger now and a good necro can be the harder fights even knowing what to do.

Necro is uniquely built to destroy a regen ranger by corrupting and removing his buffs so I dont see the issue there either. Rangers can have really good condi removal but still cant keep up with what a necro can dish out.

Dodge is always a great defense against rapid fire.

Umm if a ranger is using signet of the wild, natural healing, or troll unguent for his regen it can’t be stripped. The only time it could be is if the ranger is running shouts but in that situation the cooldown is 12 to 15 seconds. Pretty easy to reapply it.

First : If hes using troll unguent then there is absolutely no excuse to failing to kill him. Necros have some of the best access to debilitating conditions in the game. The one we have hte biggest access to is poison. Making staff 3 a death sentence for most longbow rangers if they arent using spring. Wait till they pop the heal then nail em with it. This also means they wont have any access to ANY reliable condi cleanse unless there taking SOTF which makes the rest of what you said absolutely pointless.

Second : Natural healing is a grandmaster beast mastery trait. Meaning a longbow ranger probably WONT have it. Even if they do. Its a pathetic 133 hps not counting poison.
Longbow rangers require 6 points in marksmanship to be even slightly dangerous.

In order to pull off the burst that everyone always points at they also need 6 points in nature magic for SotF. Meaning they CANT have natural healing OR natures voice. Meaning that the standard longbow build CANNOT do the regen your claiming they do. If they are not running that build they cant do the ONLY set of burst damage that makes them even remotely dangerous to a slightly decent necro in a 1v1.

Seeing as this post is in relation to Necro VS LB Ranger on a 1v1 level. Your post proves that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. Its like you cobbled together a set of things you thought would refute what others have said without even taking a second to think about it.

The ONLY build even remotely capable of taking all 4 of those would be a xxx66 build….This build will do almost NO damage. Meaning they have no burst. Meaning its an attrition fight. Meaning necro wins hands down without even losing half there health if there even slightly competent.

Edit: Even then they wont have SotF Meaning they have no condi removal besides evasive purity. Which wont do kitten against the necros liberal access to poison and weakness. (poison stops the healing. Weakness stops the dodges so he cant stop the poison)

Aleksander Suburb.4287:

What about an interrupt, by a short stun when the trap is activated?
With that you’ve the chance, that the enemy stays longer in the trap, if he forgets to dodge after stun or goes backwards. A stun of 0.5 sec is not too much to be overpowered, but it is annoying.
If you stack all traps on the same point, the stun is not additive. So it makes more sense to spread the traps. And if you try to throw it to the enemy, the enemy can react and dodge to avoid the stun.

This is more in line with what a trap actually is. Instead of a stun break. Something you can use to the same effect. They stun you but they set off a trap that either knocks them back or stuns them in return. Negating there abilitiy to take advantage of the stun.

MailMail.6534:

mango.9267:

Still makes the bad maps possible, for the people dumb enough to enjoy them, but offers a better safeguard against that one troll that often ruins everyone else’s fun.

There’s nothing dumb about people who enjoy any particular map. To say such is extremely elitist and unhelpful.

Agreed. I happen to enjoy skyhammer despite playing a class with little to no access to stability. Its a fun map for me to play on because it isnt the standard (hey lets stand in circles and mostly forget about map mechanics until its too late to do anything with them) I like maps where the map reminds you its there every now and then. Out of the FOUR* that are currently being used as a standard map I enjoy temple the most because it bloody reminds you that HEY theres more do than fight in a tiny confined space.

If the majority always won wed probably be playing legacy of foefire…every…kittening…game. Unless one team is a premade set up for khylo. Ill be honest. LOF bores teh kitten out of me after playing it non stop for the last week.

I gotta say the idea of shapeshifter focused class appeals to me. But at the same time I don’t know of any actual professions that have ever focused on it besides the avatars from the dervish. And even then they were mostly set up to be stat bonuses rather than different methods of playstyle entirely.

Id really like something akin to a Shadowknight. A “heavy” class relying on a combination of darker magic and shadow manipulation (possibly stealth or something similar to thief shadowstepping) as well as plain brutality to kill there foes. Just me though

Assuming hes using rampage as one. Focus four-DS 3-2-5. Staff 3-4 proceed to kill and laugh at his misery.

With Staff D/D- D-5 DS soak rapid fire and use DS 2 WHILE hes channeling (most rangers wont cancel the channel for a dodge they need the deeps) DS 5 dodge Point blank shot Dagger 3-4 Staff 3-4-2 DS-2 DS-1 until dead. <— thisl work on 80% of longbow rangers.

I play both a longbow ranger and a Power based necro and ive been on both the receiving and giving end of this. Use your utilities as necessary to interupt either the ranger or the pet.

Dont forget you can bounce dagger four off his pet for almost guaranteed condi cleanses. Hel dodge thinking its going after him and itl hit his pet and THEN him. very useful for dealing with the root elite. Almost guaranteed to force him to swap pets early…pretty much a death sentence in high end play.

Rangers are INCREDIBLY condi sensitive…relying heavily on there heal or passive procs to deal with them. Chill, Weakness, and Immobilize cut down power ranger damage MASSIVELY and necros have plenty of ways to apply it.

Androlan NO ranger trying to be competitive in SPvP will use signet of the hunt. That signet is like a giant beacon to every thief and mesmer on the planet saying (HEY look at me I gave up a vital cooldown that I would normally use to kill you or keep you from killing ME for something that will only help me run back faster so you can kill me again!)

Its the wrong kind of mobility gain. The survival you gain from that 25% increase in movement speed is 99.999% less than the survival you LOSE by taking it. Its better to just bite the bullet and take traveler runes in that case if you HAVE to have that mobility. Even then what you give up probably wont be worth it.

And for heavens sake man your seriously one of those that thinks longbow is overpowered? Its ONLY strength is its range. Thats it. And there are entire CLASSES (not even counting the builds in those classes. Just hte classes themselves) namely thief,mesmer,engineer,and warrior who have a very good chance of closing that cap if they pay attention. Making the longbow a long range AMBUSH weapon against players with a minimum of situational awareness.

Hell the longbow needs that mobility probably more than any other build. Becuase once you get spotted you HAVE to relocate or your gonna get absolutely violated by the first mildly compotent cele engi that happens by. And that can be an absolute pain in the kitten in some maps.

Im sorry frowny but that would absolutely DESTROY completely the ranged part of a ranger. And the RAO as one change would kill nearly every BM build left. Theres already only a few that are even remotely viable…All youd do is improve condi,melee builds at the cost of nearly every other variance.

I think we can all agree that having a stun break would be awesome with traps. But I just done see it likely. We have to pick something that makes sense for a trap. I dont think we can expect traps to remove stun from us. But if we choose a trap specifically designed to help us out when we ARE stunned. That I can see.

Keksmuffin. People like to play with AI some times for alot of reasons. Some of us find the “Hunter-killer” aspect of pets very satisfying. The feeling of control the build gives is very good as well. Other people like the “divide and conquer” feel you can pull off with it. Sending pets after one enemy to delay them while finishing off another is a VERY fun thing to do.

Then you have people that like to play the villain in a game. Being able to drag an opponent down kicking in screaming with a continuos flurry of attacks and CCs is one of the primary reasons I play a MM necro every now and then.

Some people find the more upfront playstyles boring as hell. I personally like to keep track of more than just myself and an enemy. Its more engaging for me as a gamer to keep trap of 6-7 things and how they relate to my target.

Theres also the feeling of always having backup. Many of us have loner playstyles but at the same time know how valuable it is to have something that can attack when your being stunlocked in a 1v1… One of the best parts about being a SW guard with a spirit hammer ready is having something to smack the hell out of that necro that just feared you. Its a really satisfying feeling taking away the advantage that necro had and its also something that can be difficult to pull off mid fight.

Many of us also came from RTS games. Were used to keeping trap of multiple locations and targets. Focusing on just one causes us to tend to zone out a bit. Its difficult for me to pay attention in a fight if its just me and one opponent. Might sound weird but there it is.

Anyway you probably dont even really care why people use AI. You most likely just mindlessly hate it despite it being one of the weakest build types in the game…actually I think with all the bugs involved it actually IS the weakest build type in the game now.
But I thought id type this out so youd see some of us actually have a reason why we enjoy the playstyle more. And that it isn’t because we “like playing with AI”

Sadly until something happens to make spirit weapons RELIABLE I dont think theyl really matter in a team fight much. And I play a SW guardian more than any other spec.

Ive said it before but id love for them to be immune to physical damage. Like how turrets are immune to condition damage. I wouldnt mind if they lost a bit of health to compensate for that. But as they are now even with every trait they die WAY to quickly to be reliable. While simultaneously being just as succeptable to CC as you are seeing as you gave up nearly every source of stability you had access to by USING spirit weapons. Kind of a death sentance for a class reliant on active defense as the guard is.

Using SW I can usually beat most opponents. But the build as it is now has a decently low skill ceiling while still requiring a decent amount of awareness,skill, and timing to actually pull off against non braindead opponents.

You end up with this weird goldilocks zone where you can beat any opponent below a certain skill level as long as your ABOVE that skill level. But no matter how high your skill level is you will simply never beat people above X skill level as long as there using ANY of the meta builds. The build has alot of potential in its zone. But outside of it it gets shafted pretty quickly.

Thats just my experience after playing it since the release date however >.<

I could see that fluffball. But I dont know if it fits the theme of traps to much. Maybe an explosive trap? One that doesnt activate until you yourself trigger it? A trap that can knock people out furhter depending on how close to the center they are might work in place of a stun break. Something you can save until something teleports/shadowsteps right behind you to get them off you immediately.

I wouldnt mind having manual control over all of the traps activation times to be honest. But I also like the idea of leaving a trap behind on a choke and forgetting about it for awhile. It would be nice if there was a trait that let us choose to make them activated when WE want instead of automatically. Could be useful depending on what were trying to do in a map. I dont want to burn a spike trap on a shout guardian when theres a squish necro coming up behind it.

Id still like the traps themselves when traited to actually hold the kittens in there. If each trap had a short immobilize with it they might actually start feeling like traps. Instead of really bad grenades.

Many things said in troll are often used as attacks. What truth they contain are often colored and burried in order to push like minded viewers into a direction agree with them. And pushing otherminded people into coming into conflict with them.

That last part is the issue. Trollish (probably what im gonna call it from now on) isn’t about actually communicating with people of opposing views. Its only about getting a rise out of people with opposing views. The people that use it dont bother trying to think about how what they say will push the discussion forward. They only want to get a reaction out of people. In doing so. They do more harm than good with what could otherwise be an actually constructive statement.

I PERSONALLY have no problems with people discussing or even arguing over something they feel strongly with. Because the related parties are trying to find out which viewpoint is actually correct. My problem is when people argue a point for hte purpose of argueing the point or insulting the poster of that point. Because those people have no desire to actually see the discussion go anywhere..or if they do its dwarfed by there desire for the cheap thrill of making someone angry.

MM is fun however be warned its suffering from some heavy bugs atm. I hope those will be fixed however theyv been around for awhile.

I feel the play style is fun enough to justify it though.

Rave you gotta admit though if its an aoe…Imagine it in a WvW zerg grp. If every necro had spinal shivers…holy kitten.

Whew…thats… Wow that looks a little painful. Some changes im happy to see. Others im midly worried about. I doubt terror builds will be completely killed however. I definetly think theyl take a beating.

The guardian changes listed here are interesting. There nerfing amplified wrath saying (condition guardian will be compensated in some other way) Im interested in what that other way is but hybrid guard has only just recently started becoming a thing. Im worried about what they consider compensation.

the ranger changes im mostly okay with. Wont kill the builds.

I dont think the changes to the Elementalist or Engineer will kill the builds even with the nerf to cele amulet theres a good chance theyl still be meta. However turret engineer may die out completely again. They were BARELY hanging on as it was.

No mention of Necromancer pet fixes however which dissapoints me. I really hope they get a series of fixes soon before MM necros give up on the game completely.

The lich change I can get behind. It was always akward being able to run away at 100% movement speed and still be able to hit targets.

This is all assuming its real however. It IS a leaked thing like Rave said so yeah.
Can’t assume even if it IS real that this is whatl actually happen either.