Guild Wars 2

The sinister gear works really well for me as part of a larger set. I don’t go full sinister. But I Will combine other pieces with it. Specifically the sinister accessories. So far it seems to be helping my playstyle out quite a bit.

I see what you mean. Possibly tying them into the active abilities would be more applicable to the theme of your rework. But forget that for now. Boons have always been a peeve of mine as a MM necro so I hate seeing that trait go to waste.

Other than that there isn’t much left I have to say on this matter. Other than thank you for putting this much work into it. And I hope the Reds see this.

Unless. With the incoming changes to boons. Such as the stability change and the switch to resistance.

Do you think making it so that necromantic corruption cuased each pet attack to remove .5 seconds from the boon duration on all active boons?

So. Necromantic Corruption : Attacks from the necromancers minions reduce the duration of all active boons on a target by 0.5 seconds per attack. It has direct counterplay and won’t act as an unavoidable hard counter

In combination with the other changes I BELIEVE that would make them a viable method of countering boons. Which gives us a choice between going for healing negation with death nova or making sure our soft ccs work with necromantic corruption. Enabling us to strip defenses over time OR work against there recovery ability.

Aye. necromantic corruption looks good to inexperienced necros. But further examination and practice with the build shows how unreliable it is. And other boon removal options are too far out of the way and cause us to give up core traits we NEED in order to actually maintain the playstyle itself.

Like the difference between a Minion Mancer and a “necro with minion utilities”

Hmm. MMancers survive largely through debilitation. Weakness,Chill,Cripple,and Immob. And possibly in the future slow. (If MMancer build can cross over into the specialization..) with a boon appearing that negates that (even for a few moments) Im really worried about our PERSONAL survivability even after the minions get fixed. But that may be a worry for another time.

hmm if it IS a form of active defense however we could go further than we could with passive defense. Its also something that can be stripped off. It has direct counterplay. So with this we could make it stronger than otherwise. Im still worried that unless we had hte ability to apply it specifically to minions fairly frequently it wouldn’t do anything besides be another (delay the inevitable by 4 seconds) as far as condis go.

“gasp” a gimmick build is good at the one thing its designed to do? OH NO. How bout this. FEEL FREE TO NERF IT. The second you make it so that we dont have to sacrifice 6 trait points to have the weapon be even slightly useful in wvw or PvP.

Edit: Bloody hell ill take a 10% dmg nerf across the board on every skill if read the wind becomes baseline.

one things for sure. Without that long stability ranger zerg running wont EVER be possible. Wel be sideline/backline fighters primarily. Since theres just too much damage to reliably evade without stability.

Edit: as for pve content. It was trivialized by boonsharing and the dodge mechanic long before stability even had a chance to LOOK at it. Although the newer open world content addresses a couple of the issues involved. Heres hoping for the future.

xDudisx.5914:

Imagine the enemy walking into 100 blades =)

this ^. A mechanic that actually makes 100b damage reliable in a sense? kitten.

I agree soilder but at the same time those skills are also insanely strong (ive gibbed turret engis with a SotW and that lightning breath…and the marsh f2 is one of the best poison appliers in the game.

So it should take a bit more than (insert random f2 in the middle of combat and hope the pet is positioned correctly) to pull of reliably. Pulling the pet off the point (sending it after another player then having it turn around and use its f2) is pretty easy to do and increases its reliability by alot.

I feel like leaving those skills with counterplay is a good idea. And id like to focus on the f2s that CAN’T be worked into reliable use. Like the other drake f2s.

Edit: but thats not the purpose of this thread. Ill possibly make another thread on hte matter in the future.

hmm. The taunt defiance stance concept really makes me want to log onto my warrior haha.

The number of assumptions in this post is TOO kitten HIGH

on a more serious note. I gotta agree with some of the others that resistance probably isn’t gonna be a terribly common thing. Sure it may be that comps arive that are heavily condi resistant. But theyl probably be vulnerable to other things. Cause for every trait or utility there giving up for maybe 3-4 seconds of Resistance. There giving up something else. The meta shifts once again and were all playing along as normal.

speaking on roaming in particular? sure. nerf them for the entire game. At the exact same time you nerf every OTHER roaming build that could be considered op in that one aspect of that one game mode.

Sadly the issue with drakes are the fact that only two have an f2 that is reliable. the river and the marsh drake. In PvP and WvW and even most parts of PvE its almost impossible to reliably land the ice drake, reef drake, and fire drake breath attacks. Id really like something to change on that end before altering there damage or conditions. Like maybe doubling the width and length of the cone.

does it matter? lets be honest. But in the current dungeon content. Does it even come close to mattering? At all?

At most its 10-20 seconds off your time. Usually you spendmore time moving from fight to fight than you do actually fighting.

Who bloody cares if hes going for 8-9k maul crits instead of taking 6k mauls and letting everyone else hit a tiny bit harder. Its not really slowing you down that much.

Im thinking if they fix the retal trait using the taunt in conjuction with the burn on block and retal bonuses as well as builds involving shattered aegis you could theoretically make hte enemy burst himself.

I think it was the fact that EVERY guardian applies burns regardless of build or composition. No matter what your comp if you have a guard on your team SOMEONE will be applying burns at some point.

I got to agree with what others have said. Its pretty much the opposite of fear. And itl be quite useful in various game plays. Imagine “taunting” a ranger off his ledge. Or a turret engineer out of his turrets. Or a guardian off his point. A thief trying to shadow refuge gets hit by it just as he casts it and voluntarily runs out of it.

Thisl be….very fun.

Edit: for people saying its a return to the trinity….its nothing like that. The taunt mechanic isn’t a tank only thing. The only reason tanks were the only ones to use that skill in trinity based games was because they were the only ones that could SURVIVE it.

In this game though. Anyone with access to it and confidence in there ability to survive the damage they take will be able to use it. Sooner people realise that doesn’t necessarily mean tanks the sooner people start using it defensively and offensively. Instead of JUST as a taunt.

Ive been using longbow/Sw-Axe build. (62042) zealots or assassins. REALLY good for might stacking a pet and yourself. Strength sigils on both weapons. Barrage rapid fire on the longbow then switch to SW/Axe then WD+Path of scars. Your almost guaranteed to have 25 stacks of might on the pet and atleast 12 on yourself. Its pretty kitten awesome.

sadly keian its far more likely theyl chase a mobile mob like mordrem troll…glitch halfway there. and then sit there and watch as you die.

As the title says. I wanted to pick the communities brains on combination of skills that involve the pet in order to pull it off that are actually doable.

Gs+ Sw/A
Ill start. Pull with axe 4 while having canine start its leap knockdown. Player gets pulled then knocked down which leads to a hilt bash improving the damage of the following “crippling bite” from the canine. The player is stunned/dazed leaving him open to a signet of the hunt+maul combo.

What have yall run into that youve been able to make work?

I used it for a long time in conjunction with a fern houds f2. It was pretty much a second heal skill. VERY useful when people try to burst me down after I use my heal.

So your against all passive damage in general right? So lets go ahead and get rid of all damaging sigils of any type. All damaging rune effects while were at it. All traits that are a chance on hit to proc. (they require less playing than any minion skill). Remove auto attacking as a mechanic (make sure people keep actively hitting that one button).

Saying minions deal truly passive damage thats somehow more passive than any sigil,rune, or trait just shows how little you know about what it takes for pet builds to actually work. Which means your only seeing what you want to see and anything else doesn’t even exist in your eyes.

“sits back and continues to watch people cry”

Yeah. I honestly wish shatterer would occasionaly drop a giant crystal shard thats an instant kill mechanic RIGHT on that hill every 15 or so seconds.

Edit: or…ya know. turn his head to face the largest group of players nad breath fire for 10 seconds or so might fix the problem.

Im really hoping for a bow that has a fire theme to it. A scepter that has a dark theme. A shield that has a simpler scheme but has that feeling of “come at me” to it. A dagger that has some kind of ethereal effect to it. And a greatsword that just is all barbs and jagged edges. Like a bone sword almost.

it might be best to make a ticket on this describing your issues. Im not familiar with this sort of problem myself so I can’t offer much in the way of advice on fixing this issue. But contacting ANet would probably be your best bet. They can atleast look on there end and see if theres an issue on there part. And im sure the people they have can give you advice on where to look if they believe the issue is on your side.

Edit: also it might be better to make this post in the account and technical support forum. Your more likely to get a relevant reply there.

that explains this weird barcode tattoo.

My issue the idea of blood of the master would be that it involves one more investment. In the current game in order for us to have active control over it it couldn’t be a trait. It would have to be a utility skill. Meaning we have to LOSE a minion in order to take it.

Thats perhaps the biggest issue with many of the "active’ solutions to the MM problem ive seen thrown about.

They always lead me to the same conclusion. (Barring heavy changes we can’t expect arena net to make. How much of our build will we have to give up for the build to work.) currently there are many mechanics that can instantly one shot many of our minions. Which means we would need something we can actively trigger (which means tieing it to a key press) to absorb the damage they take. Due to the combat style of this game that key press ALSO can’t leave us vulnerable.

So something like hte original blood of the master but in a shield form won’t work. Because the attacks atm aren’t directed at our pets anyway. The pets are just getting caught in it accidentally. But lets look at similar options.

This one is a trait that wouldn’t take up a utility slot.

(Every time we enter death shroud all minions gain a 2500 damage shield for 5 seconds) <— any less than this would be completely worthless

Ive seen this discussed. My biggest worry is that it will become a death trap for the necro. The necro is FORCED by the enemy to pop ds in order to save his minions. And then doesn’t have it for the following spike aimed at him. This puts the necromancer in a reactionary role where our opponent has control over our primary defense. Something that is lethal for every necromancer build in the game.

Ive spent a long time trying to find active defensive options for the minions. And every single one I can think of that would actually help the minions shafts the necromancer itself to the point of using minions becoming a cyanide pill.

A passive defensive option targeting two specific hardcounters while leaving us vulnerable to every soft counter we already have is ideal. And it paves the way for further number tweaking and balancing. The mentioned changes even go so far as to reduce our passive damage to compensate. And giving us ACTIVE offense options to make up for that in part.

Note. Theres even things mentioned that I don’t agree with. But hte overall work is a better comprehensive fix than anything anyone else has managed to put on this forum I have seen so far.

The issue is due to the investment required to make an MM build worth using in this game they absolutely HAVE to survive to be useful.

Lily it seems you want a return to the days of minion swarms. Where yes it didn’t matter if one or two died as long as you had access to an exploitable corpse nearby.

That will NEVER happen in this game though. Its simply not going to.

Also. I feel you underestimate heavily how hard the build is shut down right now. It simply isn’t viable. In nearly any situation. In nearly any comp. Because nearly every composition in the game completely rolls over it like its not even there.

You keep referring to there non immunity to hexes in guild wars one like thats supposed to mean something in the current situation. It doesn’t. How they USED to work has no bearing on the current situation just as how conditions used to work also has no bearing. The only thing that matters is that right now one burn field can kill your entire squad. One dragon’s tooth can kill your entire squad.

We aren’t even getting killed by BUILDS. Were being wiped out by individual skills. Thats how weak we are now. Thats whats being addressed here. Methods of dealing with mechanics that are complete…absoulte…100% hard counters to us. That nearly every class in the game can take advantage of regardless of build.

this…might be the fakest thing I have ever seen.

In all honesty I can’t see how an active defensive option for minions is even POSSIBLE. I dont believe it can work in any form of play.

The changes above will make the MM playstyle more active. Thats undeniable just from looking at it. But all of that active play won’t mean anything if the mechanic itself dies within 4 seconds of the start of combat. Which is why honestly I agree with the proposed damaging condi and crit immunity.

A nerf to passive damage. A buff to active damage (overall nerf for minion damage except in rare situations…making those situations will be a big decider of the skill of a MM.) and a resistance to the things that currently act as a 100% hard counter. Hard counters being something that should never exist unless there extremely rare.

So overall the build becomes more active (yay all the minion haters that whine when they have no idea what there talking might actually shut up for 20 seconds…no probably not).

Overall this will let the MM necro actually fulfill his role in the fight without being hard countered by the first kitten near anything in the game.

Since turrets actually had there issues fixed and MM necros didn’t….deffinetly in a 1v1 against eachother the engi. Mostly because the necro HAS to be able to land attacks in order to survive. And against something with hard cc and decent aoe damage. That simply isn’t possible.

Longbow f1… Dragons tooth… Nearly any engi grenade or bomb skill… Im really…REALLY. sick of there being actual hard counters to an entire playstyle.

Hmm so maybe something in soul reaping? I could see it being tied to a soul reaping trait which would force minion mancers to give up atleast one core trait to obtain it. Making it a niche choice you take specifically for a certain enemy type without making it something you can just “tag along”

Fair enough. I only mentioned it becuase its one of the only defenses we have against builds such as D/D elly and boongineers (both turret and otherwise). Although it its current incarnation its….impossible to trust in any way shape or form.

Longbow guardian has kind of been a dream of mine for awhile. Something with either low power rapid “light shard” attacks or high powered saturation style damage with burning. With atleast 2 support focused abilities. I can only hope though.

I have to say. Id actually love a rework on necromantic corruption as well. Namely the fact that even when minions WEREN’T stopping randomly at injustifiably inopportune times the trait was lackluster. Would it be possible to combine the functionality of necromantic corruption with training of the master?

Tim have you ever seen the effect a dragons tooth crit has on a minion group? It instantly kills the group.

The reason for that is not just that hte attack has a very high base damage. When combined with ferocity effects that attack becomes instant death.

Giving a flat damage reduction has two problems from what I can see and ron can correct me if im wrong here.

One. Unless that % was VERY high it wouldnt be enough to protect the revised pet health pools from even a low level crit from the previously mentioned ability. In essence you screw over non crit builds for the sake of changing absolutely nothing for crit heavy builds.

Which leads me to issue two. Any damage reduction % on a scale high enough for even the tanky pets to survive the afore mentioned ability would absolutely shaft non crit builds. It would need to be in the range of 50%+. Thats basically a giant ..l.. -.- ..l.. to anyone running less than glass or celestial.

With immunity to crits they will still be easy to kill individually for both crit and non crit builds as well as being quite easy to kill for most condi builds. However they will NOT be INSTANTLY killed as they often are now.

Edit: Bah he wrote his reply before I finished haha

As someone who has been a dedicated Minion Mancer for as long as he can remember. It is VERY nice to see this. I hope it gets more attention. And im also glad to see someone else realises the facts behind the minion mancer playstyle. And not just the public opinion.

I agree with many of your changes. And any I personally dont 100% agree with are more than made up for in the whole. I hope soon the build will get the attention it needs.

Meglobob.8620:

The getting there 2 hours before a open world event and then shuttling in your guild mates in just so you have a chance at hard content is no fun either.

Before GW2, I have never encountered a game that made me (the paying customer) wait around for 2 hours+ just to play some specific content. Can you imagine if shops said that, sorry you after wait 2 hours to buy that tv.

Stupid.

Content should revolve around the players and they should be able to trigger it whenever they want. Its okay with me if you after complete certain steps/events to trigger it but those should take no more than 20 mins or so.

Today everyone works different times. So games should revolve around people, not people revolving around the game.

Err. Isnt that kind of defeating the purpose of hte whole (living world) and (dynamic event system) theme they have built the ENTIRE GAME on?

Hmm most mob behavior causes them to attack the person with the most toughness/vitality. Which is why being even a little bit tankier than your team mates can be lethal unless your BUILT for it. (like a soldier/sinister burn guard).

As far as engies go. Are you doing anything that pumps up your toughness?

if not is your group one with several clothies?

Other than that are you fighting mobs that have unique aggro behaviors. Namely orrians from arah. Some mobs in arah have unique agro mechanics from what we can see.

Damage doesn’t really effect agro much in this game. If your having trouble keeping mobs off of you theres something you can do to make sure theyl stay on easier targets.

Keep cripple and chill on them. This will almost guarantee that they will go after the nearest targets. As there set to take into account how difficult it is for them to reach there targets. This is useful in keeping htere attention firmly on melee targets. Again this doesn’t work on many orrian mobs. But they specifically will ALWAYS attack hte weakest link. (if you have someone below half health you can almsot guarantee theyl get wacked. Or theyl be like lupicus (who fixates on specific players)

SolidGold.7958:

Tom Gore.4035:

I expect the cross-section of each map to be small, about the size of the Silverwastes/Dry Top. But as seen on the trailers they are immensely 3D. The use of Z-axis makes me sorry for people who get vertigo in games.

*raises hand.

I’m so kittened…

Its okay mate.. The rest of us will be heaving with you even as we stare in wonder as the world spuns out from under us.

(place holder for a future post here)

Agreed. But that may be better for an alternate post. If we as a community can agree with a solution and see if we cant get some red post feedback on it I intend to make posts to deal with issues of non stacking conditions as well (which are currently a "whoever gives up the most gets it) kind of thing which I am PERSONALLY 100% okay with (I play a burning guardian >.> <.<) but I want to start with the issue of the more critical aspects of the standard condition builds first.

Einlanzer.1627:

Other than the issues with stacking, I believe one of the major problems with condition balance is the design of Poison. Poison originally stacked in intensity, but was changed to stack in Duration. This works fine for Burning because it’s high-damage and low-duration, but it’s bad for Poison, which is the opposite.

In short, this had the effect of minimizing its damage aspect and emphasizing the control aspect. This means that it’s about as potent in a non-condition build as it is in a condition build. I don’t see that as a good thing. This probably is what ultimately led to them introducing Torment as a way to give more variety to condition builds.

It either needs to stack in intensity or be redesigned altogether. It should be of middling value outside of a condition build and should be very strong with a condition build. At the very least, it needs to do the damage of 3 bleed stacks instead of 2. Or it just needs to scale much better with condition damage – either just the damage portion or both the damage and healing reduction.

As far as poison goes turning it into a stacking condition isn’t really going to help it in pve as far as condition players go. ATM much like burning the highest damaging application of poison will tick. Guaranteeing a condi focused player will get credit. Now theoretically the highest ticking poison comes in the hands of the poison master ranger. So if a condi focused poison master ranger fights he will ALWAYS get the damage from that poison unless there is a similarly built ranger nearby.

If we turn poison into a stackable condition. it just becomes the same exact problem I made this thread to try to deal with. Itl get overrun by power users that just happen to apply poison. And actual condition users will get little to no benefit from investing in it.

I have to say Aidan has a point here. It probably isn’t possible at this point in time to guarantee that every condi user in a 40 man zerg will be able to max out his damage. But at this point in time there are very FEW condi users relative to there power counterparts.

Changing things so that only those that have actually invested in there relative conditions have the possibility of applying there damage sources would help give people return for there commitment to the playstyle. It would encourage having atleast a few condition focused players in even boss environments. Now if conditions become a popular thing in PvE more reworks could be required. But at this point id like for atleast the POSSIBILITY of someone who dedicates his entire build to the condition playstyle to get some amount of effectiveness from it. Because as the situation is now. That possibility is very close to zero.

If there going vertical we could have several zones worth of environments in a single “zone”. In which case we may get 5 zones but have 12-15 zones worth of actual terrain. In this case I havn’t seen an mmo try this before. So it will be interesting to see what they can do with it. As far as guesses on content goes. I strongly suggest NOT speculating on this as much as we have the potential to. It is probably best to wait and see.

I have done a 60206 build to some success.. However even in a wvw zerg it is VERY difficult to make good use of permeating wrath. the aoe is a little bit tiny to really be effective.

I hope the masteries will be more active than flat bonuses. I think id prefer a skill I could slot that would enable me to actually target and remove a piece of protection an enemy has.

Say an enemy mob has 4 "armor points’ one on each cardinal direction while fighting it. If im fighting on his left i could rip off that armor point long enough to deal some really heavy damage to the softer hide underneath it.

Or maybe certain large mobs will have targetable “weak points” that are normally impossible to damage. But people with mastery could work together to “rip off” the covering for a short time. (Imagine four people with hooks and wires ripping off a dragons scales so that meleers could start stabbing it.)