Guild Wars 2

Asrat.2645:

Pls do not give thieves more vitality.
We are literally immortal in pvp.
The only thing that keeps us controlled is the fact that we cant afford to stick to an enemy and deal damage.
Thats good as it is.

Anyone can be ‘literally immortal’ if all they do is run.

Also, one thing to learn from this thread is that majority of the people have no idea what ‘overpowered’ is, and like to throw the word around for no apparent reason.

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Mad.1092:

Ghotistyx.6942:

I also am a game dev and I know all the code and how it interacts with other code so I know exactly how long this fix should take.

I also know exactly how much they care about thief.

Errr… In that specific case, it should take about 1 min, CTRL+Fing time included…

Pretty sure it was sarcastic.

It should be an easy fix, though. If their engine is made even remotely well, such options should be available directly to developers with no or very little code needed at all, and even if not, it’s just a value to change a leading 4 to 8 in millis.

Could also just be patch notes lying. Maybe it was 8, and QA said it was too good. I can see why, considering it would allow self-stacking 25 might permanently on P/P, which is kind of insane since the coefficient on unload is so high.

There’s nothing insane about it. It takes 1 dodge to negate the entire Unload. P/P is a trash set.

It’s not just the patch note that claims 8 seconds, but the tooltip in game as well. That’s a lot of oversight.

Even with 8 seconds, the set is still trash. 2 is utterly garbage, and 4 is only useful in PvP; in PvE, 4 has been useless ever since defiance changes.

1 got a nice ‘buff’, if you wanna call it that, but it’s still garbage. The entire set needs as much help as it can get.

What? This has to be one of the worst ideas I’ve ever heard.

Reporting, talking in forums, talking to Karl directly, a week, and 6 bug fix patches later…nothing…because that is how much they care about thief.

Grimreaper.5370:

Silverbolt.2301:

I also noticed someone talking to Karl (the dev in charge of thief) directly on yesterday’s stream, and still it went ignored.

Oh… wonderful :/

Yep. Notice how they did ANOTHER patch today, fixing bugs, yet didn’t fix the Unload bug still.

I bet anything that 1-2 months down the line, they’ll claim that the patch notes and the in-game tooltip was all wrong and they intended it to be 4s, and not 8.

It shouldn’t be instant (because that’s usable while cc’d), but it also shouldn’t be a stupid long cast time.

You shouldn’t be able to use it while cc’d, but you should be able to use it nearly instantly when you’re not cc’d. Else it defeats the purpose of reactionary play.

However, posting in thief forum is pointless, because nobody actually reads the thief forum, nor do they care about thief. If they did, the Unload bug, where it applies 4s of Might instead of the intended 8 would have been fixed by now. I also noticed someone talking to Karl (the dev in charge of thief) directly on yesterday’s stream, and still it went ignored.

Shovel Face.4512:

Thief wont be Meta and S/D will surly not be Thief’s Meta. Power creep sill present, Thief still dies to random AoE; blocks, invulns and passives still determines which class is stronger than the other. Protection boon still being thrown around like candy, every class except teef has it. I’m done with PvP. If you wanna play something competitive, play Street Fighter V.

Even Dark Souls 3 PvP is more fun than playing a thief in GW2’s joke of a PvP.

Delete my thief? No.

Stop playing? Already did, like 2 months ago. I don’t even log in for daily chests anymore.

It’s so easy to spot the favouritism in this list.

Your staff/vault hate is also oozing all over the place. It’s a highly telegraphed skill and is literally effortless to counter/dodge.

If your justification of trying to nerf it is comparison to backstab, then you have a lot of learning to do. Backstab takes a lot less skill to land, compared to vault on any DECENT player.

MidoriMarch.8067:

Good thieves/Daredevils will never lose to an average necro/reaper unless they make mistakes or they are not skilled.

FTFY

Sorel.4870:

Urejt.5648:

u are right thief is trash. many reasons but main is that thief class lost its identity. Thief is no longer stealth master, or dps master, or teleport master. its weak. all daredevil does is 7% dmg increase and 1 extra dodge which is nothing compered to scrapper or dh traps. Thief simply does not have iconic moves no more.

It’s funny you would say that. In my opinion thief is one of the last profession (along with maybe necro) to have a strong identity. With Unhindered Combatant, we are even more reinforced in our decap/+1 role, which feels really unique. I enjoy my thief better than any other profession since HoT, personally.

You’re right; running away and standing at a node decapping, as you hope that one person running to you doesn’t reach you in time, before you run away again is truly a unique feeling. Nobody else can do that.

Is there a reason DD does NOT start with 3 bars of endurance when they respawn?

Rain.9213:

I’m talking specifically about S/D in pvp terms. S/D in WvW is fine for dueling and 1v1 ganking. What I’m saying for pvp though is that it offers nothing better than what Staff does. Aside from ripping 1 boon at a time which barely does anything or giving you an Immob which also doesn’t do much because S/D lacks damage pressure and you will likely take more damage after Infiltrators Strike than giving.

Also, Silverbolt, I’ve been maining S/D Thief since 3 months after launch of GW2. One gap closer that requires a target isn’t better mobility than a spammable leap that deals high damage and is also an evade and Flanking Strike is not as nearly as reliable as Staff 3 which removes Immob and acts just like a regular dodge. Lastly, Stealth is practically useless in the current meta on an S/D Thief as all it does is offer you a daze/blind that while is okay requires you to land a cloak and dagger which does nothing aside from make you invisible while you’re dying to enemy cleave.

I’m not gonna lie, this made me giggle quite a lot.

What are you closing gap on? Air? No? A target? Yes? Then you have a target to close gap on.

You obviously missed the point my response was making, considering you’re talking about Vault.

It also makes me uncomfortable to think that someone could be playing S/D since 3 months into the game, and still be unable to use the set properly in 2016.

S/D has other problems, but the ones you’re trying to argue for are not them.

Rain.9213:

Why does Staff have a fantastic gap closer, amazing damage, and really good survivability yet Sword/Dagger is literally just a worse version of it?

It absolutely perplexes me that Sword/Dagger still only rips 1 boon, Cloak and dagger still has no blind on hit in this AOE heavy game where 90% of enemy players will hit you unintentionally with an attack that wasnt even intended for you, and Infiltrators return still has cast time.

With things like Dragonhunters and their instant win traps on Thieves, Scrappers with their multiple reveals, cc’s, aoes, and invulns that can easily outsustain and outdamage thieves, and Revenants that can 2 shot a thief with Precision Strike and Unrelenting Assault, I just don’t understand why a subpar set like Sword/Dagger hasn’t been worked on well enough. Hell, even just blind on cloak and dagger would help a LOT. As for Infiltrator’s Return, I’m not saying it become instant cast while you’re cc’d. I think it’s fine that it doesn’t act as a stunbreak but there’s little reason to use it when you have a condition because by the time you finish casting it while hoping you’re not cc’d, those conditions already melted half your face off.

Anyway, just posting this to hopefully get more attention put on improving S/D because while it is usable, it get’s hard countered so easily by half of the classes out there.

What?

S/D has a better gap closer than Staff. Clearly you don’t know how to use S/D right.

S/D is also more mobility friendly than Staff.

S/D also has better survivability than Staff. What’re you talking about?

S/D damage output is not skillshot based like Vault is, and has access to stealth unlike Staff…so, obviously it’s slightly lacking in damage.

They don’t need to NERF D/P, they need to STOP BUFFING D/P…and start bringing the OTHER sets up to its level.

Classes that get the most “buffs” always gets the most attention right after the patches.

Not to mention, leagues ended; so, people have no reason to shelf their thieves, until leagues return.

DeceiverX.8361:

Silverbolt.2301:

DeceiverX.8361:

Mug one-shotted people when it could crit (it also got its damage nerfed), and it never healed beforehand. On a light or medium, I personally know I could reach close to 10k+ Mugs now in WvW. That’s kind of a problem And D/D OHKO never got nerfed. People learned how to play and realized D/P is just straight up better and offers more damage.

Frenzy GS war didn’t one-shot people and didn’t have stealth. I could run SR on S/D on a critting mug and hit for 8k + 8K CnD on most classes. Anything playing damage except a warrior would quite literally die before I’d get revealed.

Mug/PI removing the auto-crit procs are intentional. That’s part of the build and just how things are; a shatter mesmer would only get one clone to crit on a MR with Daredevul runes. Having run intelligence sigil and played with on-swap effects on the thief, you’ve gotta learn your timing better or sit back and realize you’re putting what’s effectively a GM trait in a line offering nothing but damage on weapons and runes. Expecting better results than what that trait can offer is pretty insane.

Mug never 1-shot anyone, what are you talking about? The most it hit for was 4k on a 30s cd in WvW with PvE gear (which has increased damage than sPvP). D/D got gutted really hard with C&D nerfs, DD nerfs, and HS nerfs. AS was nerfed from 150% on a single hit to 15% damage in 5 as well (which was the whole point of using it on insta-gib build for backstab).

Somehow I am getting the feeling you may not be as familiar with thief history as you feel you are. Perhaps you don’t even main a thief.

I’ve been playing signet stab since this game released. I know the damage achievable.

Check the screenshot. No signets needed. This is pretty normal for me against other thieves.

Multiply that out by 2.954 if it could crit without even the old AS. With the old AS, 4.43.

I’ll just say now I’m one of the hardest-hitting thieves in this game and have been playing as one of the hardest-hitters in this game since close to launch. Do not tell me that our Mug damage was only capable of such pitifully low values while critting, because 4k is nothing.

I hit pretty hard on up-leveled people too.

“No signets needed”?…yea…okay…I’m sure…..

That 10k+ C&D tells me more than enough about the validity of the screenshot.

Anyways, this is where I stop responding to your nonsensical babble, where you try validate yourself with deception, “DeceiverX”.

Leohart.4610:

What motivates you to play your thief considering the wide arrays of abilities other classes bring to the table, pre-HoT and post-HoT?

Nothing, I’m simply a masochist. I enjoy eating all the unnecessary nerfs and playing an unloved class.

Leohart.4610:

What is it that keeps the class fresh to you?

The fact that ANet is consistent about giving no kitten about the class.

Leohart.4610:

Is it the concept of the class?

No, read previous answer.

Leohart.4610:

Or perhaps the combat?

No, read what was already answered.

Nova Stiker.8396:

In fact, a lot of problems with this current meta can be fixed with number tweaking.

• Increase the cooldowns of Bandits Defense and Distracting Daggers, give Impacting Disruption a cooldown.

…lol…wot mate?

DeceiverX.8361:

Mug one-shotted people when it could crit (it also got its damage nerfed), and it never healed beforehand. On a light or medium, I personally know I could reach close to 10k+ Mugs now in WvW. That’s kind of a problem And D/D OHKO never got nerfed. People learned how to play and realized D/P is just straight up better and offers more damage.

Frenzy GS war didn’t one-shot people and didn’t have stealth. I could run SR on S/D on a critting mug and hit for 8k + 8K CnD on most classes. Anything playing damage except a warrior would quite literally die before I’d get revealed.

Mug/PI removing the auto-crit procs are intentional. That’s part of the build and just how things are; a shatter mesmer would only get one clone to crit on a MR with Daredevul runes. Having run intelligence sigil and played with on-swap effects on the thief, you’ve gotta learn your timing better or sit back and realize you’re putting what’s effectively a GM trait in a line offering nothing but damage on weapons and runes. Expecting better results than what that trait can offer is pretty insane.

Mug never 1-shot anyone, what are you talking about? The most it hit for was 4k on a 30s cd in WvW with PvE gear (which has increased damage than sPvP). D/D got gutted really hard with C&D nerfs, DD nerfs, and HS nerfs. AS was nerfed from 150% on a single hit to 15% damage in 5 as well (which was the whole point of using it on insta-gib build for backstab).

Somehow I am getting the feeling you may not be as familiar with thief history as you feel you are. Perhaps you don’t even main a thief.

Rezok.2709:

I agree with everything about the runes / sigil.

I do, however, disagree with your thoughts on Mug. It used to crit, but without the healing. I’d say the healing is much more important. Besides, the damage combos you could do with Backstab, Mug crit and sigil procs were too high. I know some profession can do same kind of damage at the moment, but thief don’t need more buffs, other professions needs nerfs – otherwise it becomes a “who one shots first” game.
I also disagree with your statement about Mind Wrack. You can’t compare one skill to another, you need to take the whole profession into account. Mind Wrack is the whole point of a shatter mesmer, and to be honest they would be VERY underpowered if it could not crit. It’s like if a thief couldn’t crit Backstab, it would ruin any Backstab build.

Still, most of your post really address some issues that should be looked into.

Peace out!

Obviously I expect them to reduce the base damage by 1/4 should it crit. Also, the main problem with Mug was insta-gib D/D thieves in WvW, because they would kill you instantly back when the game was released…but so would many other things like BC→Frenzy→HB warriors.

Your comparison of Backstab with WC…I’m not gonna go there. All I’m gonna say is that’s not even close to what I’m comparing. Shattering does a plethora of other things.

Asrat.2645:

Theyve tried to adress that issue, I cant yet judge if they were successfull.

They were NOT. There’s still zero incentive to take a thief over anything else into raids…except for pity. You feel bad for that individual who only has a thief geared?…well, take pity on them and carry them through.

How many months has it been that HoT’s been out for?

Superior Rune of the Daredevil’s and Sigil of Intelligence’s guaranteed crits are wasted and used up on not only Mug, but on Pulmonary Impact as well. Oh, they don’t crit by the way; the charges just get wasted.

Furthermore, if you’re using both of them together, then they override each other. That means, if you don’t use up all 3 of your charges from Intelligence before your next dodge, the remaining charges are scrap…they are overridden.

Not to mention Pulmonary Impact still reveals you, cause the game needed more ways to reveal a thief…while giving them an entire trait-line dedicated to it and designing majority of their survivability around it.

As if this class didn’t have enough problems as is.

PS: On another note: still failing to understand how Mug is still a non-crit skill after 3 years, once insta-gib D/D thief was gutted. Mind Wrack can still crit, and its damage is significantly higher.

Demonic.9852:

They forget that with no trinkets or armour or weapons effecting our vitality we have a total of 12,577 health at level 80.

Oh man, you have 12,577 hp at 80? You’re lucky; I only have 11,645 hp at level 80 on my thief, with full ascended and legendaries.

Have you tried experimenting yourself? Or do you generally prefer everyone else doing the work for you?

ANet: We’re fixing thieves. More auto attack damage.

Masochistic Desperate Thief: …but that’s not what’s needed; need more survivability and team utility and participation.

ANet: Don’t worry, more damage will fix that.

Masochistic Desperate Thief: …but…that still doesn’t address the problem of the Trickery trait line.

ANet: MORE DAMAGE!!!

Masochistic Desperate Thief: Why am I forced to take Trickery for sPvP to be decent with 3 bonus initiative? Shouldn’t you make that baseline?

ANet: MOAR DAMAGE BREH…DON’T WORRY…MOAR DAMAGE!

Masochistic Desperate Thief: …but…but how does that address the problem of Steal having a stupid long base cooldown?

ANet: Shut up and take more damage and be happy.

Masochistic Desperate Thief: Fine! =[

Is this a serious post?

That’s funny…I already quit thief.

Not because they got staff, or didn’t get rifle…but because of how little the devs and the company cares about the class.

Is this a serious post? I’m at a loss of words right now.

EazyPanda.6419:

Silverbolt.2301:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Fix sword AA, make the dual attack on s/d over ride the AA.

Staff is fine altough it’s silly to have a stealth attack on a stealthless weapon.

CnD is okish, blind on it would be nice, even if it’s just 1 target.

Would like to have wild strike to remove stances like it use to, or unblockable.

Staff is fine? What are you playing? I think we’re playing a different game.

Staff 2-4 is garbage, and waste of initiative. The only time 2 is remotely useful is on PvE enemies with a MASSIVE hit box.

3 and 4 are a complete joke.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Yes, we must be playing a different game. Staff 2 could do with added weakness but you can land all 3 hits with out the steal trick (not checked but I am sure that stacks weakness duration). Staff 4 is good for people running away as it hits twice (sometimes) and I find this great vs necro and warriors, well any class that’s in melee range.

^ This.
And staff 3 is useful for the cripple and immob cleanse. Crippled foes are easier to hit with both Staff 2 and Staff 5.

If you need to rely on cripple from 3 to land 2 and 5, then you have other problems.

If you need to rely on 3 for cripple and immob cleanse, then you have other problems too.

Last I checked, 3 is a waste of initiative, 4 has extremely limited plays (even lower than body shot), and 2 can’t reliably hit all 3 hits unless you’re abusing targeted shadowsteps, or are fighting something massive in PvE.

Perhaps you’re one of the players that likes to waste initiative on useless skills, but that’s your choice.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Fix sword AA, make the dual attack on s/d over ride the AA.

Staff is fine altough it’s silly to have a stealth attack on a stealthless weapon.

CnD is okish, blind on it would be nice, even if it’s just 1 target.

Would like to have wild strike to remove stances like it use to, or unblockable.

Staff is fine? What are you playing? I think we’re playing a different game.

Staff 2-4 is garbage, and waste of initiative. The only time 2 is remotely useful is on PvE enemies with a MASSIVE hit box.

3 and 4 are a complete joke.

This is not 2012 anymore; compared to what other classes have now…this is one of the dumbest things.

Pass! I actually like the change…for 2 reasons:

1: Steal does not go on short c/d if the target is out of range, because you can’t use it if the target is out of range.

2: It prevents out of combat group play for the thief…which (lack of purpose in a group) is just what they need to fall out of group compositions faster.

Thief

• Weakening Strikes: Updated the trait facts to include the damage reduction from weakened enemies (10%).

Let’s hear your thoughts.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Silverbolt.2301:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Silverbolt.2301:

If you want to make D/D better though, what you should fix is C&D.

Backstab has nothing to do with CnD since CnD is just one of many ways to go in stealth. Fixing CnD will not fix backstab if you’re not using D/D.

That’s because there’s nothing to fix on BS.

If you give a kitten about your class, you should be asking for and suggesting meaningful changes. Not nonsense like buffs to BS.

It’s not nonsense at all. BS has been the same since release while other parts of the game received power creeps.

BS should ignore armor and should be unblockable.

Just because the balance team failed at balancing and caused a massive power creep, does NOT mean the solution to that is more power creep.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Silverbolt.2301:

If you want to make D/D better though, what you should fix is C&D.

Backstab has nothing to do with CnD since CnD is just one of many ways to go in stealth. Fixing CnD will not fix backstab if you’re not using D/D.

That’s because there’s nothing to fix on BS.

If you give a kitten about your class, you should be asking for and suggesting meaningful changes. Not nonsense like buffs to BS.

foste.3098:

Ok it is more telegraphed skill than bs, but be real here it is a evade a leap that moves you 600 distance and a aoe. There is a reason why most daredevils just spam this skill when on staff, not that spamming it is a good strategy.

Is this a serious post?

Vault takes a lot more effort and skill to land than backstab anyday.

Yea…there’s a reason they spam that skill: they’re bad.

Not to mention majority of the other skills on staff are not worth wasting initiative on.

…but it’s okay though, you can get thief nerfed all you want. It’ll only make my life even easier in shutting them down in seconds.

Is this a serious post?

Vault takes a lot more effort and skill to land than backstab anyday.

If you want to make D/D better though, what you should fix is C&D.

Staff has A LOT of problems as is.

Well, balance patch is supposed to be Tuesday. So, we’ll find out what happens.

Oh yea? A decent condi cleanse? With staff? Please…tell me more about how you can spec for damage and condi cleanse at the same time with both traits being in the same tier.

Sounds like this is all about PvE, where pressing 1 only once is good enough.

Also, ANet did NOT actually listen to the players. People suggested numerous ways to improve the espec, while taking balancing into account, after each and every beta. They simply ignored it and cleaned up animations and delays only.

If there’s anything that needs a buff, it’s not dagger MH; it’s Staff 3 & 4 and P/P.

assassin.7895:

any comment? so far I think my bias, that DnT are a bunch of people who actually have no idea what they’re talking about, was rtight

You’re not far off, nor the only one who feels that way tbh.

I’ve never liked them displaying themselves as all knowing, and setting the ‘meta’ as they see fit (because sheeple love following their guides due to lazyness), because all I’ve seen that do is create a very poor dungeon/fractal community.

They’ve been wrong about a lot of things, not just this recent D/D vs Staff DPS discussion. However, because of the sheeple effect, majority of the community takes their words as gospel and all that results in is negativity when someone is not playing what was suggested by them.

I would personally like them to keep their ‘meta’ guides to themselves. I’ve said this numerous times before, but I think it’s best for the community’s health.

Having said that, I agree that staff is better at DPS than D/D, however, that gap get closer once a target is below 25% HP…but, that also means with Staff you get to that 25% faster than with D/D. So, optimal usage would be Staff and then D/D on swap if you really want that. However, none of this takes into account that Staff is actually very lackluster with skill 3, and especially skill 4. ANet needs to seriously address those 2 skills, especially 4.

Saw my guild leader on his thief earlier today, and thought he looked amazing enough to share.

Saw someone post it on reddit earlier, and it’s kind of turning me off from purchasing the Lunatic Outfit.

Could this be fixed please ANet?

As the title asks, do we get to keep our decorations when swapping guild halls?…or do we lose any that we have used in the current hall.

Pezz.4758:

please dont take this as rage or hate or anything but i gotta vent im a little ….meh.

So i main necro, followed the scrapper hype all through the info releases. After trying it on the beta weekend i was hooked. I had a partially leveled engy, so i finished it, grinded out all his skills, all his exotics, some ascended, crafting , bought skins went HAM.

now i find out, to even play the elite spec, i have to grind ANOTHER at least 170 points.

So doing the math, thats either basically doing map complete now in 3 days to find enough to unlock it. OR waiting till HoT, where they are 10 points each. BUT assuming 5-10 per map like currents maps, i will be half way through HoT open world content BEFORE even being able to use the spec properly.

Like i said im not raging but i cant lie, kinda killed the hype for release when i know its just going to be a grind to even START playing.

“Play how you want” ha, ya right.

Be glad you aren’t fond of, nor playing a Daredevil. If they lack hero points, all they get is a +1 dodge at the start of a fight. At least as Reaper you have FULL access to all your F1 skills. Daredevils have it the WORST of all the espec, from every aspect possible.

Are these retroactive for characters that already have 100% map completion? What about the experience earned from the 100% map completions?

While at it, what about the story completions and achievements previously earned?

Looks like everyone forgot about ‘Opportunist’, which made ‘Preparedness’ and ‘Trickery’ not a requirement.

Also; a glass cannon, that is kinda lacking cannon power.

‘Thief’ should also be renamed to ‘SB5-Trickery’, it sums up the class better than anything.

I don’t think you realize that there’s a very good reason why SB5 is the only reason thief is still relevant.

The thief class could rightfully be renamed into ‘Trickery + SB5’ to completely sum it up.

Also refer to the following, if you happen to miss it once:

Khazik.8052:

I like how we’re basing the strengths of a class on it’s ability to leave/disengage a fight, rather finish it….

Am I the only one who thinks thats F’d up?

Lithril Ashwalker.6230:

Supposedly in the post about WHAO on ranger’s boon copying mechanics, they are working on a way to copy duration etc statically…now if they are working on this, could they not work on Bountiful theft to actually steal STACKS and DURATION of an enemy instead of 1stack of might from a 25 stacked enemy to help change the tide of battle?

You have really high hopes of them buffing the base thief class, don’t you? Bountiful theft isn’t even close to being the problem with trickery or thief.