“Contention” not “Contestation”. It’s driving me crazy. Otherwise, games have been good and seeing Temple of the Silent Storm in the rotation is a nice change. Surprised there aren’t more engineers though.
Contend and contest are and can both be used to describe the act of fighting over something. While contention is usually used to express how both sides are competing in their act of contention, contestation is used to express the contesters act to take something away from somebody.
What Blu uses is neither contestation nor contention (both would be correct, though one could argue that fighting over a neutral node is closer to contending over it, wheareas attacking a captured node is more of a contestation). He likes to use contestion, which is wrong altogether.
(edited by Slim.3024)
I am just waiting for a necromancer trait: You are immune to direct damage while you are up X amount of health. Hey if it works for conditions why cant it work for direct?
With the amount of weakness Necromancers have access to, as they can now corrupt all the might people are stacking on top of everything, they pretty much are immune to power damage already.
Even worse considering those have ICD the same as the interval between HS ticks, warrior can run away or be stunned/dazed and still get 100% efficiency out of his healing signet.
Signet of Restoration and Signet of Malice have no ICD.
The reason for not forming a team is the game design and game mode.
If anybody is going to ask me what was wrong with guild wars 2 in regards to competitive team pvp in a few years, I will respond:
One strong player did not make enough of a difference and one weak player made it impossible to succeed.
That’s the basic issue I have realized in almost two years of GW2.
(edited by Slim.3024)
Having tested necro since the patch this post is 100% accurate. Necro takes skill and is balanced finally. You can do good things with necro or you can fail and do bad things. Finally necro is skill based again.
Please do not nerf or buff anything on necro that is going to break it again.
Anet actually made an amazing balance patch. Please listen to ventari and me (we both played necro for a long time) on this anet. Do not nerf necro because it doesn’t need it. It takes skill at last
Let me quote a post of yours from yesterday:
Loving necro. Am wrecking face haha. Feels more Op than dhuumfire patch.
Main Account: Henry Rank Million/Duke Henry
Whenever people claim their class is balanced like this, you can expect the class either to be absolutely overpowered or the player has been doing well.
If it’s the first, this thread is going to explode. If it’s the latter, these players will be back to complain about how underpowered their class is once things settle and they have had a streak of losses.
And Uhtameit, great post. 180s like that are so common, but people tend to forget.
Now…maybe I’m missing something…maybe they are going to significantly increase the payoff for hitting a Dhuumfire with Life Blast and/or reduce the internal cooldown. If so, then you would have a more complicated formula for calculating the nerf %.
Burnig from Dhuumfire after patch will last 4s base, whereas currently you will only get two tics of burning for 30 in Spite.
Right now you can bump burn ticks from Dhuumfire up to 3 seconds with a single set of runes, while you will be able to get 5 second burns with it after the patch.
Parasitic contagion is probably the most useless trait possible. 5% of condition damage back as health. Even if you sustain an average of 5 stacks of bleed on a target for the whole fight (which you won’t do) then this is doing 500 damage a second. So you heal for 5% of this which is 25 a second. A grandmaster trait which conditionally heals for at most around 50 a second (even less than regen) is really bad. Like really really really bad.
Look at the thief trait. They have to crit to actually get 5% of the damage back as health, that’s even worse.
Every single glass cannon roamer in this game is incredibly overpowered when entering a 1v1 (thus making it a 2v1 in your favor). The fact that thieves are more likely to engage in these 1v1s is the main reason they are considered overpowered.
Thief mobility allows for twice or three times as many 2v1s during a match. The main reason for that is Infiltrator’s Arrow.
If you want to see where thieves stand in terms of actual power in relation to other glass builds, you need to nerf Infiltrator’s Arrow first, because it is the main reason why thieves will disengage losing fights and actively engage even ones at the rate that they do.
Now before anybody whines about nerfing it, just stop and think for a second and perhaps realize that it’s absolutely ridiculous how every thief has to use a shortbow. Thieves are so limited in their weapon choices and on top of that, they are held hostage by that weapon.
Nerfing Infiltrator’s Arrow would go a long way in making other roamers fill that slot and open up new possibilities for the thief at the same time.
I have read it and it’s the same old story.
You guys are arguing that AR is the problem with decap engineers, but mathematically speaking all you have to do is to survive on a neutral node for all of 20 seconds to make decapping a profitable endeavor.
Would you die in less than 20 seconds without AR? Definitely not.
Any other build could fight for a minute and never get a decap unless they kill the defender. In that scenario we’d consider the very same efforts a “waste of time”.
(edited by Slim.3024)
Stop trying to nerf other things which will hurt many other engineer builds as well because you don’t want to lose this kitten trait.
What a load of horse crap.
I have yet to see anyone defending AR when talking about decap engineers. In fact, it’s very apparent that it’s a number of engineers who are trying to shift the focus away from the actual issue with DECAP engineers towards AR, which coincidentally is a counter to condi engineers.
It takes no degree in rocket science to understand that the issue with DECAP engineers is the DECAPPING.
If it was anything else, we’d not see decap engineers push far node 24/7 and call it a good investment even if they die in less than 20 seconds.
If it was anything else, we’d see other builds who can survive a lot of punishment pushing far instead.
If it was anything else, we’d see these very same engineers actually hold their home node, as holding a node is much easier than conquering a node, when you play a class that deals very low damage.
None of this is happening. Why? Because the fact that they survive as well as they do, regardless of why, is not what makes them strong to begin with and in fact would be completely useless, if they couldn’t make sure they are able to fight on a node that is neutral
It’s pretty much impossible to argue my posts on the matter, unless you have a hidden agenda and are trying to purposely divert from the actual problem.
The fact that engineers decap quickly in a 1v1 is not a problem. They have been able to do this from the start of the game it was not a problem then. But since people have started to adopt builds where they abuse broken traits such as AR it has become a problem.
And AR has been in the game for as long as we can remember as well. I get the issues with AR in itself, but why are people insisting on making this about AR?
Do we call them “AR Engis”? No, we call them “decap engis”.
Whether their survivability is a result of overperforming traits or not is inconsequential, because we all know that just surviving on a node is something that can be done by many different builds. It’s only a problem if they can take a node from you at will and then stall on it.
So I ask: How is decapping a node not a problem? These builds are not used to defend home nodes (and AR would certainly help with that just as much), they are used to strip away your far node.
Just because people were not using it effectively in the past (when AR has been the same it is now), doesn’t mean we need to look elsewhere for the problem.
Does AR itself warrant being changed? Most certainly in my opinion. But that’s a different topic and certainly not the reason why “decap engis” will decap your node in 10s flat.
@OP
The reason why people (including me) are focusing on AR is because its a trait that is fundamental to the success of a decap engineer. You cant nerf cc on engineers for your will hurt a lot of builds.
I honestly wonder if you ever fought a decap engineer without AR. People seem to forget that every class uses conditions and the condition immunity prevents any class from applying them. For allot of power based classes there are conditions such as cripple and immobilize which are critical for hitting their targets consistently. AR prevents both power and condi builds to get a grip on the engineer when it drops below 25% hp.
From my point of view one could do great things with this trait. It could be changed in many ways to help engineers against conditions (which are their greatest weakness in all builds (except decap))
I still don’t see how nerfing AR is going to address the issue that decap engineers can “neut” the node so easily. Being hard to take down because of AR or other means is only an issue, because you are fighting on a node that generates no points.
We don’t see any other resilient builds waste their time on a enemy captured node, because they simply do not have the means to kill their opponents quickly or force a neut.
We can clearly identify the issue here (neutralizing a node, which is almost equivalent to generating points, because your opponent is not and most matches will go to 500), so why do we not address this issue head on rather than looking at another issue that is only presenting itself as a consequence?
Since Grouch closed the thread below and it seems as if Automated Response has been deemed the main culprit for why this build has been so problematic, I am going to repost this here, as I strongly feel it is a mistake. I was also editing my post back and forth as I wasn’t happy with the wording in my first draft(s).
Decap Engineer
Let’s try to identify what needs to be changed by actually looking at what makes the build so problematic:
1. It decaps nodes too quickly and thus gets around the whole concept of having to kill players who are actually controlling the map and defending their nodes in an adequate manner
2. It survives long enough to make it worthwhile in terms of net point gain
Now, as problematic as Automated Response is in itself, being able to survive for an extended amount of time is certainly nothing unique to the engineer class (other classes and builds can achieve similar levels of resilience against attackers), which is why you don’t see other classes circumvent the whole conquest mechanic and flip point generation in their favor almost at a whim.
The obvious answer to balancing the decap engineer build is to prevent it from decapping the node so much quicker than everyone else and as quickly as only they currently can.
How anyone would not see that as the first measure to be applied in order to rein in the build is beyond me.
Now guildwars 2 has opted for a system where CC has no diminishing returns. If I had a say in it, this would change immediately, because in my opinion there’s no room for prolonged CCs in a game as fast paced as guildwars 2. Especially since back to back CCs can very well hit you right as you used your stun break to break free out of the first, thus nullifying your stun break completely.
Since diminishing returns are probably not going to be considered, though, the next best option to address the issue at hand specifically would be to change the knockback and blowout skills, as node control is such an integral part of conquest.
The least intrusive suggestion I can come up with is to alter how knockbacks and blowouts work mechanically. These abilities are meant to push back foes, instead they act as a push back on top of a knockdown, making them clearly superior to knockdowns (a mechanic that is already present in this game) for no apparent reason.
TLDR: Blowouts and knockbacks should be changed to only push foes back without actually knocking them down as well, which is what allows this build to use abilities that keep the opponent off the node for an extended amount of time, because they are incapacitated.
Feel free to remove the thread, if you still think you have gathered enough feedback, however.
Decap Engineer
Let’s try to identify what needs to be changed by actually looking at what makes the build so problematic:
1. It decaps nodes too quickly and thus gets around the whole concept of having to kill players who are actually controlling the map and defending their nodes in an adequate manner
2. It survives long enough to make it worthwhile in terms of net point gain
Now, as problematic as Automated Response is in itself, being able to survive for an extended amount of time is certainly nothing unique to the engineer class (other classes and builds can achieve similar levels of resilience against attackers), which is why you don’t see other classes circumvent the whole conquest mechanic and flip point generation in their favor almost at a whim.
The obvious answer to balancing the decap engineer build is to prevent it from decapping the node so much quicker than everyone else and as quickly as only they currently can.
How anyone would not see that as the first measure to be applied in order to rein in the build is beyond me.
Now guildwars 2 has opted for a system where CC has no diminishing returns. If I had a say in it, this would change immediately, because in my opinion there’s no room for prolonged CCs in a game as fast paced as guildwars 2. Especially since back to back CCs can very well hit you right as you used your stun break to break free out of the first, thus nullifying your stun break completely.
Since diminishing returns are probably not going to be considered, though, the next best option to address the issue at hand specifically would be to change the knockback and blowout skills, as node control is such an integral part of conquest.
The least intrusive suggestion I can come up with is to alter how knockbacks and blowouts work mechanically. These abilities are meant to push back foes, instead they act as a push back on top of a knockdown, making them clearly superior to knockdowns (a mechanic that is already present in this game) for no apparent reason.
TLDR: Blowouts and knockbacks should be changed to only push foes back without actually knocking them down as well, which is what allows this build to use abilities that keep the opponent off the node for an extended amount of time, because they are incapacitated.
(edited by Slim.3024)
People are heavily underestimating how much of a reduction 50% is. We had Protection in beta and it almost broke our class completely.
Except that Shadow Protector’s protection was a lot more powerful, because you retained a 33% damage reduction for as long as the boon lasted, while Resilience of Shadows will be gone the second you drop out of stealth. On top of that it was not a GM trait, so it worked really well with Shadow Rejuvenation.
Resilience of Shadows will only be useful to revive team mates and in order to do so you will need be able to stealth your team mates through utilities.
(edited by Slim.3024)
Try to compare Power Block to Invigorating Precision for a second.
Thief: Invigorating Precision
Thief will be gaining a new survivability trait in their Critical Strikes line with Invigorating Precision. Five percent of damage from your critical attacks will now be returned to you as healing. With this trait, you’ll be able to sustain yourself in scenarios where your base healing just isn’t enough.
I feel for thieves, because this trait is not worth whatever time it took for designers to come up with it as glass cannons will never run this over Executioner and “bunker thieves” do not have the critical hit chance to make it useful.
(edited by Slim.3024)
Healing Signet change does in fact not meet the criteria (it’s a balance change, not a fix to an unintended behavior). However, if we are to believe the designers, the Spirit of Nature passive healing is overperforming due to a bug and in return does meet them and should have been fixed.
My personal opinion is that the Spirit’s healing is not a bug and the designers have decided to adjust it to reduce passive healing in GW2 further. Calling it a bug just saves them a lot of trouble.
That’s the only explanation I have for it not making it into the patch yesterday.
(edited by Slim.3024)
I am assuming this is a typo. If not, read up on what Arcane Shield does again.
Ok so take away the stun breaker fact. Do you have a suggestion? If so I would like to hear it.
It’s not just a stun break, it deals massive AoE damage as well (more than the regular Arcane Wave). I could see and get behind a 60s CD (48s traited), but that’s really the lowest it can go, since it blocks 3 attacks, deals a lot of damage and is guaranteed to crit (let’s ignore weakness for a second here) and is a stun break on top of it. Arcane abilities are also well supported by traits.
15 second CD would probably turn this into the most broken utility that we have ever seen in the game.
Yeah, no. I have both. Not close to twice the damage.
And that’s assuming you land all three, and that involves 3 different cooldowns, all with a base 15+ sec cd.
Well, yeah. Numbers don’t lie. Take some steady weapons and test it on a dummy. 10/30/0/0/30 for both builds.
And none of those 3 disable your opponent from hitting you, because all thieves like to behave as if every class runs a melee weapon they can spam aoe with, when reality is that most classes don’t have the spammable aoe to really threaten a stealthed thief outside the engineer and necromancer or warrior.
I was really only pointing out that the damage can not be compared. Stealth is a very strong defensive mechanic. Though the very moment you can not use it effectively against an opponent, the thief has to disengage as quickly as possible.
D/P thieves have two defensive mechanics. Blinds and stealth. One of the two usually works, both are however very much active defenses that do not last long and can be repeated more frequently, as opposed to classes with a few bullet-proof defenses on a long cooldown.
It’s incredible that a backstab can be blocked or hit someone invulnerable and the thief can continue spamming it.
Backstab burst can be repeated so frequently compared to other classes’ burst sequences, and on top of it all your burst is invisible. If an ele switches to air attunement and I see him closing in I know he’s gonna do a lightning strike into phoenix combo and can react properly. Hell, I can even see his hardest hitting skill on a 35+ sec cd winding up before it lands.
The elementalist’s phoenix + lightning strike and electric discharge deals up to twice as much damage as a heartseeker + backstab. I think this should be noted.
Arcane shield now 15 sec cd
I am assuming this is a typo. If not, read up on what Arcane Shield does again.
There are quite a few builds that revolve greatly around a single trait, it’s impossible to apply such a system currently.
^ Sampo nailed it! Bunker, perma-evade thief new meta for Foefire. Could have been even better with 15 in acrobatics and actually wearing clothes to take adventure runes.
Here is a youtube link fyi so you don’t need to search in the video: http://youtu.be/iv2_1BB1zmw?t=13m35s
The guy in that video is running 30 in acrobatics and 30 in shadow arts and he can’t stay on the mid node in foefire and that’s supposed to be the best bunker?
Forget the numbers and just know that if you interrupt a thief that is trying to Heartseeker through his Black Powder, that it is probably the most effective interrupt you can do in this game after rezz/stomp and heal interrupts.
Heartseeker has an activation time of .75s itself and the thief will have to quickly de-target you, wait for the daze/stun to end and do a 180 degree turn to take advantage of the Black Powder. You can barely do this in time, if your reflexes are top notch, especially if you are crippled or chilled.
You will, as a consequence, observe how many thieves will try to shadow step into their black powder for the Heartseeker to speed up things, because losing the Black Powder and the Heartseeker is a loss of 9 initiative, which is huge and on top of that, not only will they be horribly out of position for the time it takes them to recoup, but they will also not be able to deal any meaningful damage to you.
He’s saying most thief attacks do not cost initiative when interrupted before they are executed. Heartseeker used to be the same, before people abused it to perma Heartseeker for mobility by cancelling the ability before it ended.
That’s when Heartseeker was changed to have its initiative cost up front and that’s the reason why interrupting it will still cost the thief initiative. If you interrupt a Pistol Whip before the stun has been executed, the thief does not lose initiative. If you interrupt it at the end of the 3rd whirl, the initiative will have already been expended, though the benefit for doing so is marginal at best.
The broader picture here is that the necromancer is the main reason for condition immunities to exist in the first place.
That said, immunities like Berzerker’s Stance are fine, whereas Automated Response and Diamond Skin are not, since they have no duration. Once the necromancer is brought down, these immunities should be adjusted accordingly.
Ten bucks says most of these players will be in another team by the end of the month and playing GW2 still.
84. Great PvP community. I often think of it as a swiss knife…just that instead of adapting to whatever the circumstances are, it’s just a bunch of tools.
There needs to be kitten difference between the interrupt and a well telegraphed move to be able to respond adequately.
Even these interrupts are incredibly rare in gw2 and only executed by the best of players. As a thief, if you try to interrupt an earthshaker (.75s) with a headshot (.25) and succeed, you are going to be recognized as as mechanical genius. Interrupting an Earthshaker with a steal (sleight of hand; instant), will already make you look exceptionally strong.
Slim, you’re wrong. Allie just wasn’t clear enough.
I assume you are being cynical.
If you are being serious, mind pointing to a source for this claim?
That was in regards to their general change to the PvP reward structure. On March 18th, there will be no new reward phase included in the patch, that is all.
Balance changes are completely independent of and unrelated to these reward change phases.
GW2 PvP Quality of Life feature list:
- #4: Detailed match end statistics that matter. Kills(sending enemy into downed state)/Deaths/Assists – Damage, Healing, Boons Removed, Conditions removed, Revives, Stomps, Neutralizes, Captures. (Possibly even display the amulet/enhancements/trait distribution at the match-end scoreboard)
This alone would be so great. Not just for the players, but also for spectators and shoutcasters to discuss after the match.
So I will make a prediction.
If these patch notes are real, people will complain about how Anet doesn’t know how to balance. Though if these turn out to be fake, the very same people will claim that whoever came up with these balance changes has more of a clue about pvp than all of the Anet balance team combined.
You just can’t win guys.
The only real “problem” with this build is the fact that some classes have temporary or permanent condition immunity. While you can play around the first, by playing defensively, it is very frustrating to go up against the latter.
Just increase the ICD on sigils and leave them the way they are rather than nerfing them. Warriors would not have any advantage anymore and you save yourselves the trouble of balancing them.
20s ICD on weapon swap sigils and you take care of most of the issues that may arise.
which nerfs ele and engi even more, all other classes get 2 procs every 10 second (assuming swapping as soon as swap avaliable) ele and engi only get a sigil proc every 20 seconds
Except that ele and engi are more likely to swap weapons closer to the ICD, since they automatically swap more often. Currently you could argue that ele and engi have an advantage when it comes to sigils, as they either have no cooldown on their swap (engi) or they have lower CD on their swaps to begin with (you can swap constantly on ele, since attunements all have individual cool downs).
Just increase the ICD on sigils and leave them the way they are rather than nerfing them. Warriors would not have any advantage anymore and you save yourselves the trouble of balancing them.
20s ICD on weapon swap sigils and you take care of most of the issues that may arise.
I’d like warrior runes to stack with fast hands please.
The terrible engineers who have discovered the decap build are coming to defend it.
Whether you can kill the engineer in a 1v1 or not doesn’t matter. All that matters is that he neutralizes the node and keeps it contested for x amount of time. The are currently three ways to deal with a decap engineer that actually knows what he’s doing:
1. Run your own decap engineer
2. Keep assaulting their far and hope you can kill their home node defender quickly to keep it at least neutral for as long as it takes to kill the decap engineer on your home node
3. Forget the home and far node and have your thief decap either of them constantly
None of these are good solutions and can be countered way easier than a countring decap engineer on your home node.
Nerfing AR is not enough. Without AR, you can still decap and even cap against most professions if not all and CC is a great defensive tool against power or condition.
If I had a dime every time someone on this forum says, “That build isn’t viable.” I would be very rich. This is what he runs. That is what he runs in tpvp – this isn’t just a random build. He prefers a roamer spec.
Never said it wasn’t viable. Running a build like that, however, gives the warrior a completely different role, which if it were to be run by the majority of warriors, would never result in all those “warriors are op” threads we have been seeing, because the Greatsword/Longbow builds without stances requires you to down your opponents quickly or be downed, which leaves you vulnerable in sustained fights, while at the same time not being as good as other professions in situations where you outnumber the opponent.
GW2’s meta has evolved into what it is, because people have understood that you win by stalling when outnumbered and assault nodes with superior numbers. In both situations you want people that can either kill quickly or prolong fights in a major way.
Once you get two nodes you can then exert map control by forcing the opposing team into a drawn out battle over their last node, while being able to rotate players in and out and disposing of attackers going for a different node with your big damage guns.
You can’t spam dodges with one energy sigil.
You get two dodges from your energy bar, one from a weapon swap and two from your adrenaline burst abilities through Building Momentum. That’s five dodges back to back potentially and usually three to four depending on your weapon sets.
I disagree. The warrior knew what he was doing, so was the thief.
Both knew what they were doing alright, but that doesn’t change the fact that evading four steals in a row is not skill. If it was, you’d be able to reproduce it. Skill is reproduceable to a high degree.
Go ahead and watch the full vid. He’s not doing what your saying he’s doing.
I watched it and it’s obvious. Everbody who has seen Caed play knows that he almost never uses steal with heartseeker out of a blackpowder, because it is too predictable.
All you need to do is watch the first fight to realize that not a single time did Caed use steal with a heartseeker out of a black powder. None of those steals were easy to predict. He either uses steal with black powder on the warrior or he uses it out of stealth and once when he was low on initiative he just used it as an interrupt.
Yet that very first fight is the one where the warrior evades all but a single steal.
Which is why those fights were close. Greatsword and Longbow are great against thieves and blinds, especially with bull’s charge and Frenzy. there is a reason why warriors don’t use that build anymore, however.
And the dodges and whirlwinds on steals that come out of stealth are still not “skilled play”. That warrior plays with energy runes and building momentum and was basically spamming dodges even when not necessary (which is fine, I am not saying he didn’t play well).
Add whirlwind into the mix and you have a lot of evades and they happened to sometimes protect him from 4 steals back to back like in the first fight and sometimes he would get hit by all of them. Same player, same evasion, yet somehow he evades every steal and others he eats all of them. That’s called luck and random chance.
Those dodges wern’t luck. He knew that most thieves use Blackpowder => Steal+heartseeker.
Caed doesn’t even use heartskeer with steal out of a black powder. Caed usually uses blackpowder with steal to put the smoke field on the target and heartseeker out of it when needed or he uses steal out of stealth, so your argument is invalid.
I’d say about 4 or 5 very quick ones.
If any guardian or warrior dies to a thief in four to five hits, they are REALLY bad warriors and guardians.
Here is a video of an actual good warrior not even using hambow, instead favoring greatsword/longbow – on top of it, the warrior is using zerkers ammy no 3.5k armor here. Quite frankly, he’s running the glassiest thing a warrior can operate. No Berserkers stance, he has fury stance. He doesn’t die in four to five hits.
The people you kill in four to five hits need to play better.
Edit: Notice how the warrior always uses ranged aoe or skills which overload blind whenever he sees the thief pop blackpowder. Moreover, he knows when to dodge – completely screwing up the thief’s steal skill. This is critical for the thief to land in order to get an advantage.
I really don’t want to argue who is good or bad, what’s op and what isn’t, but for the love of god, you can not possibly try to sell the fact that he dodged 4 steals in that fight as knowing when to dodge.
That was pure luck and he basically hit whirlwind and/or dodge at the same time as Caed used steal. If anyone is going to argue the contrary, then please explain how the same warrior is getting hit by 4 consecutive steals in one of the other 1v1s.
Trickery thieves are 80% steal and 20% the rest. If you miss 1, it’s bad, if you miss 4, you are absolutely done.
1. Guardian
2. Necro
3. Ranger
Hitting someone in stealth is lucky. More news at 10.
Well, to be fair in that video you seem to be convinced you have lost the fight even before the thief went into stealth, so it had to be somewhat surprising for you to win that 1v1, stealth or no stealth.
The reason “good” players (which I assume you mean players near the top of the leaderboard) play defensive specs, is because defensive specs currently out-perform in the risk:reward ratio.
Let’s just assume this was true, wouldn’t that mean that the the premise that bad players prefer playing zerker’s was once again correct, albeit for a different reason?
Why would you play something that is less effective, if your ambition was to be successful?
his argumentation says the greater the lake the less fish are swimming in them. or another metapher: in his logic, the greater the universe the less stars it have.
Going by those “metaphors”, you learned about probability while hunting out there in the wilderness.