Is this the WvW news you all were hinting at earlier? Is this it?
Berdrow, we’re bleeding out here. There are several serious problems with WvW. We don’t all agree on the solutions, but we all agree that solutions are critical. When you mentioned WvW updates, we were hoping you were working on something that…mattered.
Gliding might be ok with the new territory system. Territories seem like a nice tool to work with to maybe solve some other issues. However, gliding and territories don’t do anything to treat the wounds. It’s like getting a lollipop from a surgeon.
Is this really it? Is this where the development time has been going instead of the innumerable pressing issues that we don’t even have a smidgen of direction on?
Are we just going to get distractions rather than solutions?
WvW map size is limited by technical things, apparently. Thus, they aren’t going to be getting any bigger.
Also, I doubt mounts will be a thing in WvW.
The answer is none of the above.
Gear isn’t a huge deal, but it’s also not skill based. Knowing your class helps, yes, but it’s mostly Build Wars.
I don’t mean to say that DE will have as much mobility as DD. Rather, given the range/damage, DE will have too much mobility based on what I’ve seen so far.
(edited by Sviel.7493)
Daredevil adds 1 dodge and lots of swiftness. That’s not really much mobility compared to the base stuff all thieves have access to. As for Deadeye, we’ve seen it has a long-distance disengage and stealth, so complaints about those two things do hold water.
Alright, since this isn’t going away, let’s at least all get on the same page.
Here is some info on why siege decay exists: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Idea-to-make-Siege-Ticking-less-tedious/first#post6566172
In short, Devs want to make sure that siege that isn’t in use is removed. This is needed because there is a technical limit on how much siege can be placed and unused pieces shouldn’t clog this up. The original timers were very short, but were eventually bumped up to 1 hour for everything except rams.
This is important info because the suggestion in the OP does not fulfill this purpose. Unused siege in the area would be ‘refreshed.’ Either this is still a concern and they won’t implement the idea or this isn’t a concern and there’s no reason to still have decay timers.
A potential elegant solution would be to disable decay timers on guild siege. This makes it much easier to track down a troll while also providing an avenue for static defense without a full-time babysitter.
The system as it stands is deeply problematic—siege is designed as something you build beforehand (takes too long to build in the moment) to fend off attacks. However, if you build enough siege to respond to an attack on, say, NET on DBL…it would have to be hit 6 times in different places in the span of an hour to actually use the siege. And that’s just 1 AC per attack point. If the enemies assault from out of AC range, you’ll also need ballis. If they’re further out, you need at least 2 trebs. And, of course, the trebs/ballis can’t hit close enough to the walls to negate the need for ACs. This means that unless the tower is constantly under attack from all sides, someone has to check and refresh unused siege just to have a chance to hold the tower against 3-5 people.
The result is that a tower with any applicable defensive siege is a rarity, so people get used to taking towers without resistance. Then, when there is some push-back, they feel like the game is stacked against them. Also, defensive siege becomes the luxury of the zerg server with high population and fairly even population. The folks who need it most don’t have the manpower to build the necessary siege and then keep it from just disappearing.
People wonder why the Pip Population boom isn’t lasting—it’s partially because of terrible combat balance, but it’s also because of terrible mechanic balance. You can’t try to introduce siege as a power-of-numbers balancer and then slap a mechanic on it that makes it a power-of-numbers exclusive.
I surely understand that troll siege needs to have a removal mechanism and that there’s a limit to how much siege can be on a map at once. Decay, however, is like prescribing chemotherapy for a wart. The wart may die, but it’s hardly worth the trouble.
It’s solving a problem that shouldn’t exist. Decay timers are a brutally inelegant solution to a problem of limited tech. Adding more convolution into the mix can hardly be called helping.
But, yes, it would improve quality of life. I’d rather cure the disease than treat the symptoms, though.
This seems like the tip of a good thing. They’re somewhat acknowledging the mess they’ve made and are taking one step towards fixing it. It remains to be seen if they plan to call it a day here or continue towards meaningful change.
This is only problematic in the sense that all condi is problematic. However, since it’s glassy, it’s not going to be as broken as the worst of it.
You’re right, though I would say those problems stem from small-picture stuff. Few people defend because, unless you have a comparable zerg, no amount of skill/preparation will allow you to succeed. Thus, there’s not really a point.
Realistically, not every enemy zerg that comes knocking knows what they’re doing, though. I can still repel some/most depending on the server if I catch them before they hit an objective. This is less because of the tools I have and more because they refuse to make use of the tools they have. Thus, I still defend…but I’m not blind to the problems.
I think they’ve gone as far as they can in terms of making people care about the score, though. Maybe if they awarded bonus pips based on tier, there’d be more incentive to win…as long as high tier servers remain locked, it shouldn’t cause a mass exodus like before.
I’m not super upset that there wasn’t WvW content in the expansion. Rather, I’m upset that there isn’t WvW content on my radar at all. I’m fine with them working on stuff and I understand it takes time…but I need to know they’re doing something.
Apparently, we’re going to get an update later in the week on future WvW content. I don’t see why it would be so terrible to say a word or two about what it is now. This is when they’ve got people’s attention and they’re just pretending we don’t exist.
Just like with HoT, Its a matter of time before every specialization gets nerfed. The bet is which first.
I can’t handle the stress that comes with trying to predict/understand Anet’s balance decisions, but I recall the HoT classes still being flat-out better to this day. Some base classes see minor use, but why would anyone run base thief over daredevil?
On that note, Anet deserves credit for implementing skirmishes. It went a long way towards solving the big picture problem of runaway off-hours scores being the main decider in a match.
They have been far less concerned? successful? at the small-picture stuff, like making sure the game is still fun to play when you’re not the guy with the big stick.
What are you all thinking? It seems the rifle has a long-distance disengage, stealth, “harmful conditions” and damage. I actually never thought that all of those things would be rolled in…like, I thought it would be crazy, but this is like a parody of crazy.
Granted, they could be exaggerating the conditions and damage, but I’m rather afraid.
Are you referring to Anet selling power? That news is as old as HoT. If you’re still here, you’ve either learned to deal with it or have been living under a rock.
That’s pretty much impossible to do without people committing to play ahead of time. Each server has ups and downs and periods of being outnumbered or overwhelming. When it’s even, the game is about who can project more strength with less people. Unfortunately, due to heavy stacking in the past, some servers have so many bodies to throw around that strategy isn’t necessary.
Also, too many mechanics are completely broken when one side has more weight to throw around.
It might get better. Maybe. I really have no clue whether Anet is aware of the problems or interested in fixing them. I could be wrong about the real problems, too, but that doesn’t boost my confidence that Anet has it right.
@Serial
I’m also on SoS. You may see me sometimes when there’s a queue on EBG and you’re on home border.
As I laid out, I agree that it is possible to counter shield gens with enough people/disablers, but I disagree about that being reasonable counterplay. It takes that many people just to have a chance to do something and, having done it, it’s still a toss up if to if it manages to take down the rams before the gate falls. It’s super high risk with very little reward and should not be the only option against a super low risk strategy like blobbing.
An attack on the gates should have a faster breach time since it’s technically higher risk, but that means it should also have several drawbacks for the offensive team to balance it. Due to shield gens, it’s no riskier than anything else.
@Serial
While the AoE works for that set-up, a competent group will place the gens on the side of the rams. It’s possible to disable 1 with splash, but not both. They can fit 4 in before you’re able to disable 2 at once and it will take a minimum 3 disables to get them all. When all is said and done, you have 10-20 seconds where you can hit the rams assuming all disables were successfully pulled off (not blocked by player skills) in a 5s window since the shield doesn’t immediately drop when the gen is disabled. Since the update that doubled siege health without boosting siege vs. siege damage, that means you need to pull this off ~5 times to kill the rams.
It may be possible for a guild of ~6 people to do this, but even if it goes off without a hitch, they have to be ready to go as the rams are being built or they won’t finish before the gate goes down.
Recall that Siege disablers only have an AoE of 300. It was nerfed a while back.
Much like in EU, it would have such a massive population that it would be a nightmare to balance. That said, I do think it would make sense.
I’m back to semi-hiatus (because no red BL q_q), which makes it easier to wait out changes. However, I’m also hoping for something to ship with the expac. There’s tons of room for growth/improvement in WvW—in ways that have been explored to the point where all that’s needed is action. Things take time, yes, but I’m not going to carry on just with the vapors of hope.
They don’t have to drop something as big as the last expansion, though.
OP makes a good point—one I have made myself fairly often.
Granting invincibility to blobs not only encourages blobbing but makes it necessary to play the game at all. You simply have no power unless you are a blob. I’m not interested in playing that game.
Perhaps it would be better to show the buff immediately, but not give pips unless the current conditions are met. That would mean splitting it into a functional buff and a symbolic ‘buff.’
The former would work like the old Outnumbered and the latter would work like the current iteration. That way, we get all the info and effects while still restricting the pip gain to people who were actually there to earn it.
I’m partial to Sea of Sorrows, but I found the GoM community pretty pleasant when we were linked to them.
Pretty sure it’s a bug. I can confirm it just started happening recently.
Anet responded and suggested using this method to report this sort of thing.
AnetFor chat or behavior violations:
1. Right click on the player’s character
2. Click on the small portrait of the player near the top and center of your screen
3. Select “Report”
4. On the Player Conduct Report panel choose a reason for your report from the drop-down menu
This gives their support team a timestamp of when the event happened.
@Cerby
Holy wow! You spent more time and effort on that single post than I did on this thread and the report combined! Why do you care so much?
No. Never again.
LFG is still pretty new in WvW, so most people don’t use it.
What server are you on, btw? That kind of determines the activity.
I’ve actually never complained about people afk farming pips. I’ve engaged in discussions with people that wanted to find a way to avoid having maps clogged up and made hopefully reasonable suggestions, but it isn’t something I ever thought too much about.
@Daisy
I can’t be 100% certain it’s one person, but they did say as much. Also, the alt only moves from afk at citadel to afk in the corner waiting to die. It doesn’t really matter if it’s one or two people, though.
It doesn’t have a significant effect on the matchup, though, so I really don’t care that much. It’s been more amusing reading this thread and seeing the reactions than anticipated, though, so I think I’ll keep it up.
It took me all of 30 seconds to make this thread and maybe 5 minutes to report. Compare to the embarrassing number of hours spent in WvW this weekend.
Also compare to the laughs I’ll get if the person actually gets banned.
edit: And the laughs I’m already getting reading this thread—which were not expected.
He tried but if you look at the screen shot he got killed. He’s now taking to reporting the player since he can’t kill them himself.
Personally who cares IMHO. This person isn’t affecting your game in anyway what so ever.
I killed the person once, they killed me once, and then they took to just running whenever I showed up. With all that was going on on the map, I decided it wasn’t worth trying to chase them down all day.
I chose to report it because this is the sort of stuff that Anet uses as a justification for keeping rewards slim or participation hard to get. If this sort of behavior is rampant, there will inevitably be changes that ruin things for the rest of us (see: Decay).
@aandiarie
This isn’t a matter of someone being afk for a while. All the info is there, should you want to read it.
.
@Firebaall
The sacrificial character is on my team, so I can’t kill her. The farmer is a D/P thief that can somehow get up on the ledge above the corner in my screenshot. None of my attacks reach up there.
As for why Anet would care? They just dropped a patch aimed at reducing afk pip farming.
.
@all
This is happening again right now, btw. The farmer whispered me saying they’re playing D3 and getting pips.
http://puu.sh/wQIaa/98f1ea0c0c.jpg
Here’s a picture of the player in question killing the alt at the location. I blocked out the names, so it should be ok.
Apparently, e-mail is not the way to go. I got an automated reply saying to submit it through their ticket system. Initially, there’s no option to submit a ticket as a player report, but it does show up later on in the process. Anyway, I basically copy-pasted the e-mail into there. In the future, I guess people should just start there.
We’ll see what happens next~
Allowing this to exist for another few years is not acceptable to me. I’ll bump this thread now and keep this issue in the light until it’s fixed.
I sent an e-mail with screenshots. Not planning to lose any sleep over it—was just wondering if there was a standard avenue already.
I’m not going to say server/account names because I’m not trying to get this thread deleted.
I went with ‘botting,’ though that doesn’t seem quite right. I have screenshots and account names but there’s no way to submit those in a report.
The person in question hangs out near east Citadel exit on DBL. There’s a pocket far enough back that the legendary defenders won’t aggro you. They run their alt out, kill them, then afk.
I think the system is just fine. Even if your a causal player like me, you can still make it to diamond without much issue.
Aren’t you like rank 3k+? If not much higher? I don’t think a casual player can be expected to spend 40+ hours in WvW each week, so if their pip gain is lower due to rank, there would be an issue with making it to diamond.
I am fine with that, of course, but I wouldn’t say your experience is universal.
^While I love to champion supply traps, I don’t think they’re as practical on EBG. Enemies can roll up to your towers without warning much more easily than on the borderlands. That said, I always appreciate people giving them more advertisement.
Either way, I think the lack of interaction that he’s bemoaning is still an issue. The fight shouldn’t be over until the ring disappears.
If all they do is sit in towers and they still have towers, they must be facing some pretty terrible opposition.
In the interest of healthy discussion, we’ll probably need a more dispassionate post. I can understand why you’re upset and I agree these are real problems, but they’re too easily overlooked since they’re buried in your subjective response.
To summarize:
-Offensive siege is too plentiful.
-Shield interactions are unintuitive.
-Defensive options are limited.
On the first point, I think spending ~500 supply to take a tower is a fine choice to have available. That’s not cheap at all. Still, there should be defensive options available. Since the shield generators had a combined 100% uptime, there were no options to stall for help.
The root problem, then, is the shield generators. They reduce defensive options to nil if supply is available. The problem could be solved by giving them a minimum distance so that they couldn’t shield themselves as well as the catas—that way, you could at least disable the shield and an ally could disable the catas. It would also help if catas didn’t have native shields as that makes a battery of 8 literally untouchable.
I still see plenty of solo roamers. Depending on the server, the condi/power breakdown varies, but they do tend to be condi.
Overall, I would say that the game you loved is still dead. Fights are less about player input and more about builds than ever before. It also doesn’t seem like Anet has any clue why it’s a problem or how to fix it. It’s not something I hope for anymore.
I haven’t once checked how many tickets I have. There was a time where I felt compelled to WvW as much as possible for things like server pride and the war effort and, looking back, it wasn’t worth it. So when I saw something else that suggested I put in extra hours, I didn’t think twice about turning it down.
The game’s much more fun this way.
While I understand wanting to normalize ticket acquisition, I think the point was to incentivize pushing farther than you normally would. In addition to rewards for what we were doing already, they want to give us a reason to play even more WvW.
Though, if finishing the tier is not possible, the actual incentive might be to just give up.
Perhaps a compromise would be best—Half the tickets are spread over the first four chests and half are in the fifth chest?
People champion obvious abuses like this by saying that ‘good players’ can tab through the food quickly enough—despite the fact that they shouldn’t have to be tabbing through food in the first place.
Yet, try reverting an unintentional, 50% damage-vs-siege nerf and they all lose their minds. Or, better yet, try actually pulling one of those levers and watch them rage about a few seconds of chill…which good players should be able to deal with.
The minions fried the brains of half of our scouts. The first call was ‘15 ANET in SWC.’ I called ‘10 CD in SWC,’ next one was ‘20 ANET at south fire shrine.’ It’s like good, old fashioned radar jamming.
While you can’t visibly see point B from point A on DBL, there are not actually any obstacles in the path between the two. Run times between objects do vary from ABL, but they are not uniformly longer. Running between camps is about the same. Camps to towers are about the same too. Keep to keep is about 20-30s longer. Citadel to Garrison is slightly shorter. On each of these paths, there is a clearly marked road with no cliff jumps or other shenanigans.
For more info, see: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Offensive-Small-Team-Play-Alpine-vs-Desert/first#post6076340
or: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Defensive-Zerg-Play-Alpine-vs-Desert/first#post6079423
Please stop trotting out these old and thoroughly debunked claims. They’re not helpful.