Still going at it are we Stark. Please stop kidding yourself!
sPVP has four maps, one game mode, and is unbalanced class wise – unplayable after a short while!
WvW has very long queue times so out goes any casual players almost immediately, people don’t want to wait around for hours. Again WvW has no meaning, besides going around in huge groups, or “zerging” as it’s referred to, just all very repetitive, and can be very laggy too!
Dungeons you have to stand around shouting out in map chat to attempt to find a group to begin with, nothing more needed to say on that matter.
World Boss encounter? Ok do that once, job done.
Achievements, I mean really, why? It’s a virtual number going up with no relevance. Nobody can see them, they serve no purpose, so just why?!
Maxing crafting levels serves no purpose what so ever either, the main reason for the majority are so you can craft exotic gear…which you can just purchase a full set for between 10-20 gold from the trading post. Certainly doesn’t take long.
To sum it up, this game doesn’t have a carrot on a stick, nor does it have any replayability or any fun factor once level 80 has been reached, thus other games with a “carrot on a stick” per say, will probably be more suited to other people, and maybe more fun too! Thanks.
Interesting…
Pvp is so balanced in other mmos I guess you are right.
And map variation, wow and swotor had that down on their release right? You like warsong gulch or warsong gulch?
Sitting around shouting for players for a dungeon, you’re right I’ve never had to do that in other mmos, I’ve also never had to problems finding healers/tanks or if the tiniest thing goes wrong they instantly leave because there’s another group waiting for them. Never had that happen ever.
And oh let me tell you how useful crafting is in other mmos, glad I’ve never had to acquire crafting materials from raids that need at least 9 other people to do, oh and I’ve never had to compete with those people for said mats either.
Gw2 really does fall short of the mark seeing as how I’ve never experienced a worse or more tedious version of this ever.
(edited by Swagman.9013)
I think Kodan could be just as likely as Tengu. They are all about balance of nature so perhaps something along those terms profession wise.
I always laugh my kitten off whenever, right after defeating Nokk in SE, a player blindly runs to the chest for loot not noticing a gravity well is still active from before Nokk died. And boom they go flying off the edge into lava.
Just say, hey friend what email do you want for your gw2 account.
Then make it tell him the pw and the DL link will be in his email. He can change his Password afterwards.
So telling them to knock it off was a bad thing then? Yeah I guess maybe that was the fuel or I took the bait, but at the time I was in a skirmish with 5 drakes and needed to help my pet :/
These are just children Fayte by poking them you give them attention, and then they want more.
You don’t get rid of a skritt by giving it a shiny, that will make him only want more. Just ignore them cause they are just being dumb little skritt.
Well now Fayte there’s gotta be something that you are doing to attract a bit of ire from these folks if you say they would continue to talk about you.
Most of these people fart out an idiot comment and then go back to staring off into the middle distance while drool crusts around their mouth.
The only thing I can think offhand is you provoking them by saying you are reporting or by telling them to stop cause its not nice, or you don’t appreciate it or something.
Come come now lovey, for what reason would these creatures of such low standing ’ave to pick on such a fine member of society as yourself.
So if people are only “joking” but the person being harassed is not aware of that it makes it O’k? OH I understand now, My apologies I guess I should be more mindful of when someone is insulting me that they just want to joke around, calling me a kitten or kitten is just there way of saying “Hi, want to be friends?” Yeah that whole explanation makes it right, no it doesn’t, lemme boil it down, people are gettingkitten cause what usually is completely excepted in map chats in other MMO’s is not the same as what is excepted here, players can report other players and guess what? The admins actually care, and will take steps to ensure that someone else doesn’t experience the same thing. Yeah trash talk is fine so long as it doesn’t turn into hateful spits of insults and then rage, I don’t give a rats butt what people are used to in other games.
Look I get that jokes may be harder to discern in text but you have to also look at the context of what is being said.
If you truly are (and I’m not trying to be insulting but it’s the best description) a sensitive person that views most insults directed your way as attacks then that’s what the block button is for.
There’s a giant cross section of people playing this game from devout church goers to greasemonkeys that will pick their nose if they think no ones looking. Obviously some of those people are going to be a bit rougher around the edges than others. And some can tolerate it more than others.
I think it’s the attitude and intention behind the remark that matters. In map chat I’ve called people kittens, kittens, kittens, piece of kitten, mother kitten, and dumb kitten. But I never say it with any malice, always poking fun and playing around.
I didn’t know the human females could have hair that short interesting.
I’m always right around 30g I know if I farm instances again it will go up. But I just do the occasional run.
I really hate the fact that they went against their word about making the game a grind-fest when as soon as you hit level 80 its “Welcome to Grind-fest 2” ….This isn’t an opinion..its a FACT
Now for those of you who may disagree and say “just play for fun”…goodluck with that when the game aims to keep you on a gold deficit upon reaching level 80, when waypoints and repairs are your biggest fears…ever had to run through a dungeon hoping for sweet rewards only to have your team disband on you near the last boss and end up with nothing but a repair bill of over 20 silver…goodluck grinding that money back because you’ll lose it even quicker next time
All in all, I’m just saying that Anet went against their word to keep the game as fun as they promised it would be…none of these problems occurred during the Beta tests because no one was getting insta-banned for “exploiting” then and gear wasn’t x10’s the price it is now
Well ive never had a repair bill over 5s in any dungeon ive ever done. I also make money from every single dungeon, even when i ran them back to back and the end reward was 2s60c
Those are my FACTS
strange how our facts dont match even though we are playing the same game.
Well at least that made the workday pass by much quicker. Someone needs to start a thread so we can all have a nice debate tomorrow. Maybe lance will reveal his uber mmo so I can spend the day poking holes in it, but if not someone else needs to get another one going.
To the above, people have translated “we don’t want our players to grind” into “grinding doesn’t exist in this game”
But if you look at it from the first view you stated then yes they kept their word.
(edited by Swagman.9013)
Lance I would just love to hear your idea for a 0 grind mmo, do remember that I don’t want to do the same task or anything similar to it for more than 3 times else it’s a grind. Please give me your months worth of completely unique content start to finish.
He means casual as in a woman shopping, they go in to see if anything catches their eye and sort of float around the store looking at several things.
Compared to efficient as how guys normally shop, have a thing in mind I know what I want, and where it is. Get in get out.
Neither is better or worse one just gets to the end result faster.
At least that’s how I interpret it.
This is just an idea I thought of to promote more people to play a wider variety of dungeons and more often.
The way I see it, there is 3 main currencies for getting the exotic gear. Gold, karma, dungeon tokens.
My idea is to tie one of these 3 rewards in to each path of the explorable dungeons. Each path will be marked with an icon to represent which it gives. And although I’m not the most for this part, it makes the most sense, dungeon tokens would be universal through all dungeons.
Now a key part of this is, 1. You only get the bonus from each path once a day, if you repeat a path you get 0 reward.
And 2. You swap the paths reward based on difficulty from each dungeon.
That is to say in 1 dungeon make the gold reward the “hardest” (what the player base perceives as hard) and in another make it the easiest.
This way it gives incentives for players to clear multiple different instances each day. And allows player to pinpoint their reward. Also if they get bored running the same 2 each day for karma, then they know they can just pick another 2 and they will make the same progress.
Also the karma and dungeon token paths would still reward like 10s to cover any repair costs.
So guild wars 1 had 0 grind completely fun replayable content with enough rewards to keep players going for years, all within 1 month of release.
Well I don’t get why you would ever play any other game ever again.
I never played at release, so I couldn’t tell you that. However, the game had something to it that set it apart. In Guild Wars 2 that’s not the case; we’ve got stupid gold sinks, we’ve got armor grinds; we’ve seen this before, we’ve been here before. Why would we start anew?
Note: I have never been one of those hardcore players doing the toughest things in the game. If I had been, the game could have probably held my attention even more.
Well maybe that’s your problem, I never played gw1 so I don’t know if it was all milk and honey at release but if you came into it late you came into a kitten load of content from a fresh perspective. Let’s give these guys some time.
Nobody has ever said grinding doesn’t exist in gw2. It’s not required. I say this because I know from firsthand experience.
I leveled my warrior as GS signet build, I knew this wasn’t good in groups. When I decided to do explorable dungeons end game content I bought a set of rare level 80 armor from the TP for about 2g. I bought 3 peices of knights and 3 peices of Valkyrie. I then respected to a dungeon friendly spec.
So for around 2 gold, and from spending 5 minutes on the TP I was ready for all end game content
Which I then proceeded to kill zhaitan and do explorables till I got my dungeon exotics, all while wearing purchased level 80 rares.
The next trick is to get 4 other people that did the same.
If I can do it anyone can do it. There’s no trick to it
So guild wars 1 had 0 grind completely fun replayable content with enough rewards to keep players going for years, all within 1 month of release.
Well I don’t get why you would ever play any other game ever again.
I’m sorry, I thought the “definition” of grinding was pretty well known.
So tell me, in what universe do you live in that repeating one of 3 options collectively up to 46 times is not a grind?
Nobody has ever said grinding doesn’t exist in gw2. It’s not required. I say this because I know from firsthand experience.
I leveled my warrior as GS signet build, I knew this wasn’t good in groups. When I decided to do explorable dungeons end game content I bought a set of rare level 80 armor from the TP for about 2g. I bought 3 peices of knights and 3 peices of Valkyrie. I then respected to a dungeon friendly spec.
So for around 2 gold, and from spending 5 minutes on the TP I was ready for all end game content
Which I then proceeded to kill zhaitan and do explorables till I got my dungeon exotics, all while wearing purchased level 80 rares.
And all I was pointing out is that there is nothing in the game that requires you to get that armor, so your grind is self induced. You will get that armor eventually if you just play the game normally which is 100% possible as you are now. The only reason you view it as a grind is because you want it now.
If I had done that, I would probably have gotten bored before the first piece. Repetition without reward becomes dull.And there is no way anyone could possibly make an MMO , or even a game, that is not repetitive.
THEN WHAT WIZARD MAGIC WERE YOU EXPECTING ANET TO COME UP WITH TO MAKE A 0 GRIND MMO THAT’S CAPTIVATING FOR YEARS, AND WHY ARE YOU UPSET WHEN YOU FOUND OUT IT HAS A GRIND.
The original post states it’s a grind, the above statement is how he arrived at that conclusion. It’s relevant because he has to have some basis to arrive at that conclusion otherwise hes making statements about a game he has no experience playing.
How is he supposed to claim there is a grind and then you say all his opinions arent relavent to the claims.
You can’t say X is a grind and when asked why you go, well I actually have no idea how I arrived at that opinion.
“We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2, no one enjoys that, no one finds it fun.”
Can I have the dungeon armor that I like without grinding? No.
Why are dungeons a grind? Because they’re not fun.
Why aren’t they fun? Because they’re poorly designed.
Why are they poorly designed? Because the difficulty is artificially created via huge health pools and huge damage on mobs, instead of clever mechanics.
Oh, so I can’t have that dungeon armor then? Nope.
You can’t just say that to people. ArenaNet need people to buy their expansions to keep the game going. How do you get people to buy expansions? By making the previous content entertaining.
There you go lance. Bottom of page 1
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Well then this sentiment along with the projected problem as we have worded it is a far more agreeable approach than the Anet lied about grinding one.
What just happened is a well thought out problem and possible solution in an intelligent context.
I believe karma rewards should be boosted for reasons X, Y, Z because of evidence manifesto, but in a reasonable amount so as not to disturb balance of the hardcore and casual.
If I saw that as a post I’d agree all day with that. But stating that Anet lied when they certainly did not (even though you still feel they lied to you) comes off as hostile and warrants the same response.
I never stated they lied. Perhaps they didn’t even feel getting karma armor was a grind. I’m just pointing out that it does require the completion of several hundred dynamic events, which makes it, in the common definition of the notion, a grind, which in turn was contradictory to their statement in the manifesto. It was an observation, nothing more. Besides, saying that my post is hostile is a bit too much. In fact, the OP is probably my least hostile post in the entire thread.
And all I was pointing out is that there is nothing in the game that requires you to get that armor, so your grind is self induced. You will get that armor eventually if you just play the game normally which is 100% possible as you are now. The only reason you view it as a grind is because you want it now.
Oh so the op used the scientific method, with his own personal GW2 experience.
I hear running 1 experiment with no control data, or opposing theories is how science is done these days.
Cause I have had and it seems like many others have had a very different view point from his, but I’m the wrong one for trying to reach a compromise, well you call that opinionated, but the op has been using facts the entire time. Ok.
Alright and to that end I’m saying, if we all define what a grind is to ourselves. Then for the sake of arguement you have to allow that some people may not view the dungeons karma or even legendaries as a grind, but fun.
So for those people that part of the manifesto was spot on. And all I’m saying is, by admonishing something that goes against what you think is fun and falls into a category that you think is grinding, it is being selfish to think it needs to change.
And that’s all I’ve been trying to say, there’s a few thousand other players in this game, we have to consider them all.
And ArenaNet could very well cater for both kinds of people. How? Very simple: reduce the cost of karma armor, so that those who view it as a grind can stop doing events. All the while, the people who consider it fun can get the armor, but also keep doing the events because they’re fun.
Edit: Also, the fact that I’ve gotten my armor more easily doesn’t impede your fun. You can still keep doing the dungeon even after you no longer need tokens, for fun.
Well then this sentiment along with the projected problem as we have worded it is a far more agreeable approach than the Anet lied about grinding one.
What just happened is a well thought out problem and possible solution in an intelligent context.
I believe karma rewards should be boosted for reasons X, Y, Z because of evidence manifesto, but in a reasonable amount so as not to disturb balance of the hardcore and casual.
If I saw that as a post I’d agree all day with that. But stating that Anet lied when they certainly did not (even though you still feel they lied to you) comes off as hostile and warrants the same response.
I chose that point because the others as you admitted were debatable but you had some pretty resolute feelings on this subject, which I feel they still lived up to their end of the word.
And you have to be joking about the grind in wow, the entire archaeology profession is the very definition of grind. I guarantee people are still clearing MC to get a thunderfury.
False. According to you, each of us defines what grind is to them. Can you be certain that there is absolutely no one that enjoys archaeology? (of course nobody in their right mind would, but for the sake of the argument, I’ll say it).
Also, in the OP, I never argued whether these grinds are optional or not, or justifiable or not. I just said they existed, despite ArenaNet’s claims. By existing I mean they could be included in what is commonly defined as grind. You brought me into the discussion about how justifiable or optional they are. I never meant for that discussion to take place.
Alright and to that end I’m saying, if we all define what a grind is to ourselves. Then for the sake of arguement you have to allow that some people may not view the dungeons karma or even legendaries as a grind, but fun.
So for those people that part of the manifesto was spot on. And all I’m saying is, by admonishing something that goes against what you think is fun and falls into a category that you think is grinding, it is being selfish to think it needs to change.
And that’s all I’ve been trying to say, there’s a few thousand other players in this game, we have to consider them all.
I chose that point because the others as you admitted were debatable but you had some pretty resolute feelings on this subject, which I feel they still lived up to their end of the word.
And you have to be joking about the grind in wow, the entire archaeology profession is the very definition of grind. I guarantee people are still clearing MC to get a thunderfury.
And the grind in the dungeons doesn’t necessarily come from the fact that you have to do 20 runs, but from the fact that it’s hard to get a group and even harder to finish the dungeon.
this should have been the topic of your post then, not Anet lied to our face about no grind.
This is situational. It can be changed by you
I have never been unable to complete a dungeon I’ve started and I only play with pugs. But I communicate and strategize and try my best to understand the mechanics of the encounter.
Sheen made a good point that some people see leveling as a grind, by your logic Gaurudan then we should all start off at 80 cause Anet promised no grinding. We should have all skills and gear too because there’s no grinding. In fact if it were a truly no grind game the moment you logged in a fanfare would play and the words YOU WIN would appear and that’s the entire game. No grind whatsoever.
But maybe you think leveling is fun, not a grind. Alright well now all the GW2 players need to subscribe to your definition of what is fun, what is a grind, and at what point does something fun become a grind. Because remember they said no grind in their manifesto and the sole reason you claim you are mad is because it EXISTS, as defined by you, even if it’s optional.
(edited by Swagman.9013)
Alright, fine, you win. The game is not a grind, everything about the game is perfect, as if God himself designed it. ArenaNet didn’t change their philosophy, I’m just misinterpreting it. I want everything for free and I’m a self-entitled prick. Now that we’ve settled that, I’m off to play Skyrim. Have fun.
Well that mindset doesn’t surprise me, the flip the chessboard and walk away.
I never said that there is no grind. There’s plenty of grind, but it’s all by choice. The entire game world is open to you. You can do Arah in level 80 rares. In wow you can’t do black temple in level 70 blues. That’s an example of a forced grind. You cannot progress to point c without doing point b.
Gw2 you can go from a to c or to d or to whatever.
Why would I argue with you? Logic doesn’t work with people like you.
We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2.
If there is a grind and you are grinding, whether it’s your own choice or not, they have already broken their promise from the manifesto. Not once in the OP did I argue whether the grinds are optional or not, or justified or not. I simply said they exist, therefore breaking their promise in the manifesto. Simple logic.
As others have said, when you call it a manifesto, I, as a customer, expect that you respect everything you said there to the letter.
Furthermore, by your logic, once again as others have said, WoW doesn’t have compulsory grinds. Besides, in WoW, I could get cool skins from raids from previous expansions and transmogrify them on my current gear. This, however, will never be the case with Guild Wars 2, given the sidekicking system.
First off I have to address the I could get cool skins from old content in wow part.
Buy wow – 60
Buy tbc – 60
Buy wotlk – 60
Buy cata – 60
Buy panda – 60
That is if you have been loyally playing at the release of all the games, your 300 bucks deep minus the sub fee, I think you payed your dues to have some old content skins but oh so nice of wow to add transmute so late in the game.
And to your point of the manifesto, if you get that it’s optional, and you get that maybe they added grinding in for the sake of those who like grinding. Then literally you are mad cause they didn’t follow it to the T and have a 0 grind game?
Are you saying then, that had they called that blog post, Our MMO beliefs, and not mentioned the word manifesto, then you would have 0 qualms.
Well why are you buying any RPG even single player ones if you view leveling up as a grind. Yea leveling can be looked at as a grind but I call it playing the game. And in that regard GW2 is leaps and bounds over WoW. How’s that flawless gorilla sinew quest coming along? Well I killed about 300 and still haven’t found it.
Alright, fine, you win. The game is not a grind, everything about the game is perfect, as if God himself designed it. ArenaNet didn’t change their philosophy, I’m just misinterpreting it. I want everything for free and I’m a self-entitled prick. Now that we’ve settled that, I’m off to play Skyrim. Have fun.
Well that mindset doesn’t surprise me, the flip the chessboard and walk away.
I never said that there is no grind. There’s plenty of grind, but it’s all by choice. The entire game world is open to you. You can do Arah in level 80 rares. In wow you can’t do black temple in level 70 blues. That’s an example of a forced grind. You cannot progress to point c without doing point b.
Gw2 you can go from a to c or to d or to whatever.
@Sheen
Blizzard had such good retention because they were the first to administer the drug. They hit that sweetspot of the start of a gamer generation and the beginning of Internet popularity. They also had the blizzard north crew at the helm which helped greatly.
Now mmo companies have to give us a synthesized version of the drug like swotor, or have to try to hook us on a new type like gw2 or TSW.
Ok but you still aren’t answering the question. Dungeons are super interesting mechanics work fine you have to run dungeons a moderate amount of times to get a full set. Please respond to this type of player.
Hey I’m pretty bored now, I ran the dungeon for the set I wanted enough times in about a week, I ran all 3 paths daily, that’s 21 times this week I have my full set now.
The next week I spent doing all the other explorables one time each, I don’t want the gear from them so I don’t see a point in rerunning them. I’m not a big fan of pvp either.So in about 2 weeks after hitting 80 I literally have nothing more to do that isn’t ridiculous grind content like get a legendary cause I have consumed all the non grind content already. What do I do now?
How do you fix the above situation
So you’re talking about the tiny minority of players who not only consume many hundreds of hours of content in a single month, but also refuse to repeat anything or play the game just for fun? I’m guessing the solution to that situation is to ignore those few people’s whining, because there’s no way in the world to satisfy them. They are being completely unreasonable.
There are any number of options available to the player you mentioned. All of which have been outlined and explained in detail repeatedly by ArenaNet. There’s other professions and races to play with different personal stories. There’s long-term goals like achievements and cosmetic gear. There’s crafting, sPvP, and WvW. There’s a massive PvE world, all of which is open to exploring and enjoying the fun game play.
If you don’t like any of the many available options and huge amount of content…then stop playing. There is literally nothing else a company could possibly do for you, except waste a huge amount of dev time trying to provide some kind of artificial treadmill to keep you playing. ArenaNet has clearly said they aren’t interested in doing that. They want to spend their dev time creating content for everyone to enjoy, not just this tiny minority you describe.
Again, you are creating an impossible situation. You are discounting all of the many things there are to do, and then complaining there’s nothing to do. If a person doesn’t like the play the game… why are they playing? It’s like a little child stamping his foot and refusing to eat anything but pizza when his parents take him to a seafood restaurant.
This is exactly what I’m trying to illustrate by forcing the OP to say it himself, but you said it for him.
You cannot cater to everyone at once so Anet picked a middle ground they thought would be tough enough for more dedicated players to have to chew through, and allow the more casual players to take moderate bites of and have them both feel satisfied.
Whether or not they nailed that mark is up for debate but it’s ridiculous for anyone to call down fire and brimstone because Anet didn’t cater to your specific playstyle when they are judging things on a hundreds of thousands scale, not player to player basis.
Think about the other thousands of players and how they might be affected before you unfurl your war banner and spearhead some change that you see fit.
When you break it down the whole thread is just a fancy way of the op saying, I don’t like dungeons or the way the system for pve is, but I want the rewards from it.
For what reason the op wants them I don’t understand cause he won’t be doing dungeons or DEs with that gear.
Ok but you still aren’t answering the question. Dungeons are super interesting mechanics work fine you have to run dungeons a moderate amount of times to get a full set. Please respond to this type of player.
Hey I’m pretty bored now, I ran the dungeon for the set I wanted enough times in about a week, I ran all 3 paths daily, that’s 21 times this week I have my full set now.
The next week I spent doing all the other explorables one time each, I don’t want the gear from them so I don’t see a point in rerunning them. I’m not a big fan of pvp either.
So in about 2 weeks after hitting 80 I literally have nothing more to do that isn’t ridiculous grind content like get a legendary cause I have consumed all the non grind content already. What do I do now?
How do you fix the above situation
No I didn’t play gw1 but I want to hear Gauradans solution for other people not enjoying the game when it’s catered to timeframes that suit his desires.
There is no grind required. You can have the same abilities and stats as everyone else without grinding anything.
“We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2, no one enjoys that, no one finds it fun.”
Can I have the dungeon armor that I like without grinding? No.
Why are dungeons a grind? Because they’re not fun.
Why aren’t they fun? Because they’re poorly designed.
Why are they poorly designed? Because the difficulty is artificially created via huge health pools and huge damage on mobs, instead of clever mechanics.Oh, so I can’t have that dungeon armor then? Nope.
You can’t just say that to people. ArenaNet need people to buy their expansions to keep the game going. How do you get people to buy expansions? By making the previous content entertaining.
First off all of this is an opinion not fact.
Secondly you do a great job of pointing out problems while offering no solutions. Please tell me the clever fight mechanics you’ve been brainstorming to make the game better
Third I’d really like to know your solution if all your specific problems went away and the dungeons weren’t a grind and you needed to run them ~25 times in order to get a full set. What do players do after that very small window of dungeon time.
Ok 20 to 30 runs you just gave the game life roughly 2 weeks (and thats being generous) before everyone has their whatever they want.
What’s your solution for after those 2 weeks when every player is standing around LA in their fancy gear and talking about how bored they are and that they don’t want to pvp.
Ok let’s give you your game. Every DE gives you 45k karma, each dungeon run gives you 500 tokens and 30g reward. Everyone’s happy now Yay we get our dungeon set we wanted, yea I crafted that thing I wanted or I have my full karma set.
Alright now what’s your answer when a week later the forums are filled with, games too easy, no reason to rerun dungeons, I have every set of gear and I’m bored, why should I still play if I have everything.
“well obviously you exaggerated those rewards I wouldn’t give 500 tokens a run only 200.”
So that delays the scenario by an extra week? What timeframe is preferable to YOU to have a full exotic set of gear? And then what are you going to do?
“well obviously Anet needs to be updating content”
Ok so adding in completely grind free content, Hrmm that should help for about 3 days before everyone chews it up and is asking for more.
“well the should release more”
Boy that’s a lot of work to be giving out new updates every week or so, guess they will have to add a sub fee to pay their devs for all that work
“well gg just like every other greedy kitten company out there wanting me to pay for everything”
The only reason you say there’s nothing to do at 80 but grind is because you have put some goal that you want to reach that is beyond clear all explorables. And that is exactly like what I said before.
All the games content ALL of it is doable with 0 grind. You can complete all story modes, you can complete all explorables, you can discover every zone, with never having to equip an exotic.
But because you have chosen a goal, let’s say it’s a certain dungeon armor set, you now want what is meant for players that you are not. That stuff is not for players like you. The entire game is available to you but these aesthetic items and weapons are not put in the game for everyone.
So don’t complain about a grind when you are willingly, of your own free will, choosing to get something that is meant to be grinded for.
How did they not deliver guardian? There is only an optional grind, you arekitten cause they said there is no grind but they offered a grind for those who choose it.
It’s like a mall that proclaims “we don’t want our mall shoppers to climb stairs” so they have escalators for every single floor, you can get anywhere you need to by using an escalator, but then you see a stairwell and become enraged?! What is this bull&@$! you said you don’t want us climbing stairs?!
Well those are for people who prefer to take the stairs, but they are optional
No you said no stairs and I see stairs I don’t care if it’s optional I’mkitten and you are liars.
“you are not required to keep playing”
This man has figured out video games, yes that is exactly what it means, and it doesn’t matter since there is no sub fee! Strange how when you boil it down it’s like the complete opposite of blizzards business model.
Gw1 has existed for several years I feel confident Anet knows what they are doing in this regard.
Anet: hey player 1, do you want grind in your mmo?
Player 1: heck no I hate grinding.
Anet: well good news player 1 all our content can be done in easily obtainable rares!
Player 2: well wait a second I like grinding for difficult to obtain rewards.
Anet: well fantastic news player 2 we added some gear for you to obtain by grinding your eyes out and since you will most likely play our game longer to obtain those rewards we made them look extra cool!
Player 1: hey but wait I want that gear too
Anet: well that gear is for player 2 only cause he doesn’t mind grinding, but don’t worry both of you guys will see the same amount of content.
Player 1: no that’s not fair I want his gear too but I don’t want a grind, give me his gear without the grind.
It’s a mmo that focuses on gear looks, that’s why legendaries don’t have ridiculous stats but look amazing.
The grind isn’t there unless you want it to be, your argument is the same as the people that complain jump puzzle chests don’t give a good enough reward for spending 30 minutes getting to it. Don’t do jump puzzles if you don’t like the reward then, they aren’t necessary. But it’s there so I have to do it.
Makes as much sense as
This gear needs a billion dungeon tokens it’s such a grind, they said no grind.
But you don’t have to get that gear so just don’t get the gear and there is no grind.
But it’s there so I have to get it now, and they said no grind, why would they say no grind if they are going to add an optional grind?
Well maybe it’s for the people that will grind to get that reward.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/No-love-for-condition-builds/first#post219965
Oh look at that it’s still on the front page guess you must have missed it somehow, and what do you know Jon Peters says they are looking for ways to improve condition builds, bleeds a condition right?
I think when they said that they don’t want to require grinding for gear I believe they have achieved that. I have been able to do many (I haven’t done all of them yet) explorable dungeons using rare crafted lvl 80 armor. They are doable and it’s not a graveyard rush zergfest if you know what you are doing.
Exotics are not required to clear explorables. Therefore that billion karma you say you have to farm up is not needed, but it’s by choice. I’ll admit that the level 80 crafted armor I wore looked so bad that I wanted my dungeon exotics ASAP. But other than that if I was happy with the way they looked I could have taken my sweet time.
This idea that the top tier gear is needed to complete top tier content is something players have dragged over from other games. But in other games you don’t have ways to easily and frequently dodge damage, you don’t have debuffs that reduce boss damage by 50% which is huge btw. Can you stun bosses in other mmo’s? Can you knock them down or knock them back. I’ve had runs where we have been able to chain stun bosses frequently.
I say they delivered on the no grind is necessary promise, but players have interjected grind by making the gear that is meant for the more dedicated players (dungeon and karma) a necessity and not a prestige or badge of honor like it was meant to be.
Why can’t we just communicate using text
Yea that is correct, and that situation should never happen, I mean you managed to get that far tough it out, and if someone leaves just have someone stay in the instance and find another.