Guild Wars 2

Lordrosicky.5813:

I admire your work and persistence Gates. But at the same time I just don’t believe for one second that they care about any of what we say, even you with a link to them. Back in alpha and beta everyone told them to not do 1 pvp game mode and they just decided they were right and did it anyway. Took them 3 years to realise the mistake they made with the new mode in the expansion. In that 3 years the game lost 99% of its pvp community and is left with zero serious pvp teams or players.

That’s an entire gamemode. It’s also during a time where the general feeling was “FFFFF WE NEED TO GET THIS kitten OUT CUZ RELEASE IS COMING”. The feeling now is “Let’s fix everything that’s broken.” I wouldn’t say this if I didn’t believe it. I mean, look at the engi stuff! The only reason it’s that good is because they’re working on it the most right now. Necro will get its turn and I want to make sure they have a full report from the community to work with.

Sagat.3285:

Is this limited to traits?

No. Feel free to suggest anything. They said they’re reworking signets and unlisted skills as well. Feel free to even mention some tweaks to weapon skills or base mechanics!

After reading the forums for the past day and a half, I got a slight hint that maybe necromancers aren’t happy with the changes. As someone who has played terrormancer and power necro a bit and had my face wrecked multiple times, I feel you. There’s a lot of builds that almost exist in blood and death magic, but they just don’t work. It feels like there’s a lack of clear vision in those two trait lines.

So, I want to be very open with you guys about what I’m sending to the devs.

THIS IS A WORK IN PROGRESS AND IS NOT THE FINAL VERSION OF THE REPORT. I WILL EDIT AND ADD TO THIS MULTIPLE TIMES BEFORE I SEND IT!

Most of the feedback I’ve read (understandably) has been “WTF IS THIS KITTEN”. I want to get some serious clear suggestions for reworks on all of the traitlines.

1. If you have old posts with suggestions, link to them and I’ll include it.
2. If you have ideas for reworks, post them here.
3. If you have a build type that you’ve always wanted to see for necro, post it!
4. You don’t need to work with what they gave you. Feel free to completely make up your own blood magic line with completely new traits! Even if they don’t fully take your suggestions, it might inspire something cool!
5. While I am the PvP Forum Specialist, I’ll try to include everything I can, even if it dips into PvE and WvW.

I don’t want to read things like “They aren’t listening to us”. They are. Big time. What I put in this report gets plopped right on the desks of the devs working on this rework. There has been no better chance to get your feedback in than right now. Please post!

They’re already nerfing it!

Gryph.8237:

Gates, fogive my lack of faith in anet right now.

I fully understand why you’re worried, but you have to understand the situation we’re in. They’re working on an expansion and they’re given free reign to fully rework everything in every single class. They’ve never really had that chance as the motto of the company was “very little changes over long times”. They are HEAVILY looking for your feedback and the information I send them has had a large affect on what they’ve done. Did you know that the reason they changed Foot in the Grave to a stunbreak was because of the forums? Turret engi nerf? Forums.

If players post me some good feedback and suggestions, it’ll get to the devs and things will change. Watch.

MSFone.3026:

Forgive me for freaking out, but with all the celebrations over IP being baseline etc. did anyone else notice that they seem to have made MW a GM train in illusions?

Go to the reddit page of notes here
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/33qrg0/specialization_ama_livestream_notes/

and click on the image for the illusion trait line, or click here http://i.imgur.com/h7a0WHQ.jpg.

I mean… what the fuuuuuuq? Yay we all get IP! Oh wait, but now we need to get a GM in illusions to use MW?! Not a good trade imo. Ofc always have to read the fine kittening print with Anet. Thought this was all too good to be true. As I said apologies for wigging out on this, but I think this is just stupid.

When this patch comes out, you will:

1. Choose three full traitlines. This means you’d be taking all of illusions, rather than being able to only take 4 points of it.
2. You will get one adept, one master and one grandmaster (and all three minors).
3. You can not take more than one adept or master trait. It MUST be one adept, one master and one grandmaster.

This means taking Master of Fragmentation isn’t hard and is actually probably going to be one of the more powerful grandmasters available.

Exedore.6320:

Bottom line is, what role should grenade kit have?

I see it as high damage and vulnerability stacking. Also in PvP it’s damaging conditions.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

The form removal is something to consider, but remember, this F5 skill is going to be “Toss Elixir X”. If you’re in Lich form and going up against an Engineer who hasn’t tried to Supply Crate you yet, then you’ll have to keep an eye out for the visual cue of him throwing a vial at you. Dodge it, and now you’re set.

I don’t think any of the other Toss Elixir skills are things you’d want to throw at your opponent rather than your allies, so the tell will be there.

That’s a really fast animation to be dodging, especially with the camera change. And especially for such a high recharge elite.

I wouldn’t get too worried. They said in the live stream that the professions they were most looking at and working on at that time was Engineer and Mesmer. I’m sure necromancer will get a much more full treatment after engineer and mesmer is done.

I’m gonna spitball for a second. Would you be okay with any one of these changes (or a modification of them)?

1. Frost Spirit – Foes in range who are disabled suffer from chilled when hit. Chilled foes take 10% more damage. Radius 5000 (5k radius is basically, if you can target it, it is in range)
2. Water Spirit – Allies in range have +400 vitality and regeneration. Radius 5000
3. Spirit of Wind – All projectiles (enemy and ally) move twice as fast. Projectile finishers always critically hit.

When the spirit is summoned, the flip over skill will destroy the spirit and they would go on a 10s cooldown. If they are destroyed, they go on a 30s cooldown.

Alexander.9810:

I think they would benefit from ground targeting, like how Turrets can be.

My worry is that you can put turrets in insane places with that trait. For example, try throwing a turret on the roof of the temple in Temple of the Silent Storm! Also, spirits don’t require line of sight, which could be pretty scary if you could throw them.

Think about it tho, if you hide this somewhere obscure in clock tower, it could be really hard to get this down!

In short, everything is changing and the devs are listening very closely to your feedback right now.

PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE POSTING ABOUT THE CHANGES!

Important Notes

1. When you choose your traits, you select three FULL traitlines. This means you get all three minors, one adept, one master, and one grandmaster. Again, that’s three minor traits, not three adept traits.
2. You can NOT choose more than one adept or master in the same line. It MUST be one adept, one master and one grandmaster.
3. This means that it doesn’t really matter what level the traits are in, but rather what they are competing against!
4. If your favorite trait has seemingly disappeared, it is very likely that is is now baseline. For example, Illusionary Persona and Focused Rituals are now simply baseline.
5. Some traits that were considered useless OR promoting bad gameplay will be removed. For example, Dark Armor will be deleted because it’s a weak trait. Clone death traits will be deleted because they promote passive and strange gameplay.
6. All healing and elite skills will be relisted to join groups of skills. For example, Tornado will be a cantrip. Dagger Storm will be a trick. Rampage as One will be a Shout. Mortar will be a KIT (yes, a kit. Get hype).
7. Quickness is now a boon
8. Burning and Poison are changing to stack in intensity. Damage was reduced on both. Poison will NOT stack the healing reduction!
9. Engineer and Mesmer were confirmed to have the most work done on them so far. It’s possible other classes (Like necromancer) will have more work done on them in due time.

For a full list of information from the live stream, read HERE

READ POST BEFORE POSTING!

Grenade Kit

1. Grenade kit will throw three grenades by default.
2. Grenade kit skills will have a range of 900 by default.
3. Grenadier will increase the radius and velocity of all grenades.
4. There will be no way to increase the range of grenades through traits.
5. Grenade kit’s Poison Grenade will no longer be a field. Instead, it will explode out poison to all nearby foes.
6. For a full list of explosives traits, click HERE

Mortar Kit

1. Mortar will be listed as a kit and be reworked to be a full kit that you can swap in and out of.
2. Mortar skills will be reworked from what they are now.
3. Mortar will have 1,500 range (I think? Definitely long range)
4. Mortar skills will be focused on fields and blast finishers.
5. Mortar will have a trait in the explosives line: HERE

REMEMBER: NONE of these changes are final. These are ALL prototyped and are highly likely to see changes based on YOUR feedback.

What do you think of these changes?

READ THIS THREAD BEFORE POSTING ON SPIRITS

Spirit Changes

1. Spirits will no longer move.
2. Spirits will be heavily buffed to account for this. Think GW1 Nature Rituals but they probably won’t affect both allies and enemies equally.
3. Devs confirmed that the recharge on spirits will be heavily reduced.

What do you think of these changes? What would you want the spirits to be changed to if they were to become immobile?

REMEMBER: NONE of these changes are final. These are ALL prototyped and are highly likely to see changes based on YOUR feedback.

uhohhotdog.3598:

I don’t think they’re useless but they could use a damage buff and/or more health. I solo’d 4 of them with ease. They should be strong enough to break a bunker team. 4 of them should at the least be a challenge against a player.

They’re designed not to be. I think the real problem with archers is their ADD. If they see a player, they’ll go for that player instead of the NPCs. I don’t think they’ll switch targets to the player, but if the players get to them first, which they normally do while defending the base, they are effectively neutralized by standing in front of them. The only way to get use from archers is by sending them into an already empty base.

Personal attacks aren’t going to get this discussion anywhere. This really comes down to one topic:

Why Aren’t Turrets Fun to Fight?

So, what specifically is it? I know the gut reaction answer of “It’s AI” is a popular one, but that’s not going to change. I think the key is that there is almost no input necessary from the player and yet there is a lot of effect gained. So, either the effectiveness needs to go down or the input from the player needs to be increased. Quite honestly, I think it needs to be a slight mix of both. I personally don’t want to see turret engis sneak their way into high level tournaments, even if it can become just as skillful as current difficult builds.

Sins.4782:

Some things I’d like to see:

• Turrets besides Healing Turret are placed where you begin the cast, not where you end it (no more floating turrets— if you want your turrets to be in more protected positions, you must trait for thrown turrets)
• Protection Injection and Stabilized Armor switch places. Turret engineers have to choose between their turrets being squishier or they themselves being more susceptible to focus fire.
• Fix that glitch that removes the effects of Rifle Barreled Turrets on overcharging some turrets

Turrets should remain as immobile area denial, but should not be unreachable for most skills. Other than that I don’t really see any problems with them, though I can understand how many are angry about the survivability they have since the introduction of Sentinel’s Amulet. I still can’t see of any way to make them actually compete with kits in usefulness, short of adding stunbreaks to some overcharge effects, but I imagine people would complain even more about that.

Put fortified turrets on and try the floating trick. You’ll be pleasantly surprised…and possibly annoyed. It’ll shoot down to the ground.

Sizzle Hint.1820:

loving it

the tears are delicious when i play it on my engineer

especially when you put them on a point then leave for a bit come back and see a downed thief laying there starting to flame like a madman

pls dont nerf its the best troll spec in the game right after full glas bearbow (bear just for the lolz)

only play it in hotjoin though

The idea isn’t to nerf it, but rather turning it into a spec that requires a pulse.

The one topic that keeps on coming up over and over again is about turret engineers (and for good reason). I have my own opinions about turret engineers, and I wanted to see what you guys think.

Turret Traits

Let’s look at all of the turret traits. Any trait that is taken in the meta is underlined.

Notice anything about them? All of the traits that focus on the least skillful part of being a turret engineer are taken. Fortified Turrets (a very active trait) isn’t taken very often. Deployable turrets isn’t taken mostly because it’s in an out of reach line and sort of ruins healing turret by giving it a longer cast time.

The Skill of Turrets

There are skillful parts of turret engineers, or at least things that separate the good from the bad:

The only turret trait that focuses on these skillful parts of turret engineer is Fortified Turrets (Placement Timing/Placement), Accelerant Packed Turrets (Detonation) and Deployable Turrets (Placement). Even APT is generally just there to annoy people with Crate! Everything else is about just having the turrets do things on their own more effectively!

Solution

The traits that focus on making turrets better at simply sitting there and being turrets need to be reworked. Effective Turrets should revolve around being aware of your turrets, not simply placing them in OP spots (Or miraculously floating them in air) and forgetting about them.

Here are some suggestions:

Any suggestions on how to make turret engineers more skillful? What would make you say “Dude, YOU try playing turret engi. It’s tough.”?

Nabrok.9023:

MarkPhilips.5169:

- no blue/green stuff

It amuses me that some PvP players seem to think there’s some mysterious use for blues and greens in PvE. There isn’t.

Salvaging for luck is the only use for most of it, and luck is as useful to PvP players as it is to PvE players.

If you don’t care about the luck, just sell it either on TP if it’s light armor and actually worth something or to a vendor if it’s not. Just like PvE players do.

The use is about 1-3 silver. Just cut the middle man because I will never salvage for luck because I don’t care about it.

Sagat.3285:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Sagat.3285:

I tried again… not worth it. I am still proposing stab when exiting +other issues as usual.

Off-topic, aren’t class specialists supposed to help with this kind of stuff or is it for show?

I cover anything and everything dealing with PvP, from balance changes to matchmaking to just what you do in Heart of the Mists. There are certain changes added to the game that don’t spark much talk in the forums. Most of the time it is something that upsets someone or something that is REALLY amazing. Tweaks don’t get much traction, so I decided to start a thread to see what people think.

Alright so when does the revision of class happens or am I going to have to buy HoT for a proper “necro”? I am still wondering how it will survive with GS… I know they have a rule about it but come on.

I know as much as you do. I take feedback from players, send them to the devs and cross my fingers.

Sagat.3285:

I tried again… not worth it. I am still proposing stab when exiting +other issues as usual.

Off-topic, aren’t class specialists supposed to help with this kind of stuff or is it for show?

I cover anything and everything dealing with PvP, from balance changes to matchmaking to just what you do in Heart of the Mists. There are certain changes added to the game that don’t spark much talk in the forums. Most of the time it is something that upsets someone or something that is REALLY amazing. Tweaks don’t get much traction, so I decided to start a thread to see what people think.

Vieux P.1238:

The Gates Assassin.9827

“Everyone targets me and I don’t have the tools to survive”

Yeah true.. Reason why, is that the necro dishes out so much damage is such a short time that first thing on the target list is the necro. Even over the Eng & Cele builds.

Nurf damage & buff suitability instead, then you’l be less targeted.

Maybe Power Necro does that much damage, but I don’t think Condi Necro is at that level…until now. I don’t go after necros because I’m afraid of them. I go after them because I smell fresh meat without much challenge to kill. When I took only offensive utilities with the DS stun break, I felt like I had some actual damage to deal as a condi necro, but I could hold my own in a team fight. Before, thieves were making me pop stun breaker after stun breaker as I tried to survive. Now I’m holding against them pretty well.

I’ve always told my friends that if ArenaNet came out with a track that gave me overall less money than I’d get from other tracks, but it was JUST straight gold with no need to open anything more than some gold coin bags, I’d choose that on an infinite loop. How does this sound?:

1. Bag of Coins (15s)
2. Tome of Knowledge
3. Bag of Coins (15s)
4. Transmutation Charge
5. Big Bag of Coins (30s)
6. Bag of Coins (15s)
7. Tome of Knowledge
8. Bag of Coins (15s)
9. Transmutation Charge
10. Superior Bag of Coins (50s)
11. (Repeat 3 more times to finish and get)
12. Choice of:
    1. 10 Transmutation Stones
    2. 5 Tomes of Knowledge
    3. 2 Gold
    4. 20 Slot Slayer’s Bag (Account Bound)
    5. PvP Trait Unlock

Keep in mind, these are rewards for winning or losing in PvP. I think it’s fair to say that black lion stuff is out of the question. Those numbers are completely rough estimates. They’d have to be roughly equal to what you get out of normal chests from salvaging and getting random rares/exotics, which I simply don’t have the numbers for. The whole idea is that I don’t care about crafting materials or these worthless skins, so just gimmie money cuz i like it.

Just some stats, this track would give you exactly:

1. 5.6 Gold (7.6 Gold Max)
2. 8 Transmutation Stones (18 Transmutation Stones Max)
3. 8 Tomes of Knowledge (13 Tomes of Knowledge Max)

Saturn.6591:

I’m not quite sure what you mean with things that are of no use for pure PvP-players. You can easily turn everything into gold. Well, except some stuff you get from the Silverwastes or Dry Top reward track, I guess.

I think it’s more like “I don’t care about these crafting materials and salvaging everything is silly. Just gimmie the reward.” I don’t even think most PvEers use some of the ascended crafting materials we get in boxes.

HeadCrowned.6834:

As long as this is not the solution brought forward by Anet, I agree with the OP. I don’t want to have more skills/sigils/runes than any other PvP player. The best about GW2 PvP is the equal chances each team has at the start of the match. We don’t need a Call of Duty like unlock process.

I think the idea is that this would be another way to unlock it, rather than the only way.

Rolisteel.1375:

Immobilize what kills me. so useless gm trait for me as a power necro.

I need mobility and survivability. or immobilize break more useful imo.

Flash Death Shroud (Stun break + stab) into Staff 4, Consume Conditions or Dagger 4 and your target is immobed and you have stability. Unless you’re seriously being trained, that should be more than enough to save you. If you really are being that trained, it’s either high level PvP and you should have wurm or you walked yourself into a 3v1 xD. I think it’s really only not good because you have to give up Death Perception on Power Necro.

Lordrosicky.5813:

But that isn’t unique to necro. The games balance is very balanced. What the games “balance” lacks is fun. That is why despite putting real money on the line anet are getting less and less people signing up for all these tournaments. People are bored and frustrating mechanics aren’t nerfed. There is no fun aspect to the way they balance, they are obsessed with their failed esports project.

I have a feeling the expansion will fix a lot of that.

So about a month ago the forums were talking about necromancer and it came down to this:

1. “Everyone targets me and I don’t have the tools to survive”
2. “Necromancers are great…when I’m on my team and properly supported.”

Well, foot in the grave (seemingly due to your suggestions) has been made into a stun breaker, bringing out the build 0/6/2/0/6 (PoC and FitG). I’ve tried this build out without any utility stun breakers and so far I’ve been having a great time with it.

How do you guys feel about necromancers after this change? Anyone try this new build yet? Anyone try this with a power necro?

kirito.4138:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Yea, I know…

It is mostly my personal experience… I got no clue as to what my MMR is, so I just think it is “average” – it is what I expect I am anyway… Everything in this thread can basically be deduced to “When I solo, I will lose”

If your Queue times are usually:
2-4 minutes = Average MMR
7-10 minutes = High MMR

People get 2-4 minute queue times? I want. Please.

Also, I generally don’t like to PvP unless we’re at least a 3 queue or more. I find anything less is sort of like a slot machine.

I was winning a 2v1 at far point. A “teammate” came to far point with like no health left with someone chasing them, went down, got stomped and rallied the two people I downed. I died 3v1.

In terms of the physical reasoning behind why the thief would be revealed, it doesn’t really matter. We can explain away why the thief is revealed no matter what we decide. For example, maybe thieves are revealed BECAUSE they used such a powerful skill in stealth (stealth attacks) and thus are revealed whether it hits or not. Maybe they are revealed because they hit somebody (blocks only). Maybe the sound of an attempted attack reveals them (any misses whatsoever). The real argument is what is fair gameplay wise.

Also, in response to making it reveal on certain types of mitigation, I think that might be a bit confusing for new players. Imagine you go for a backstab and on the first go it is evaded and doesn’t reveal, then on the second attempt it is blocked but then it does reveal? What about blind or invuln? Distortion? Consistency is better.

This nerf would slightly hurt thief defenses (as you would need to go through more hoops to get backstabs on certain classes, thus leaving you vulnerable for longer) and majorly hurt thief offenses (Certain defenses now completely stall you). Ganking someone in a team fight shouldn’t change too much for a good thief, but think about certain match ups. Would D/P thief become just plain unplayable against these meta builds Assuming that using a stealth attack via skill 1 would reveal you?:

1. D/P Thief
2. S/D Thief
3. Shatter Mesmer
4. Power Ranger
5. Cele Engi
6. Cele Ele
7. Shoutbow
8. Condi Necro
9. Power Necro

Warrior’s adrenaline was nerfed because it was too forgiving, but it was also on a class that was too forgiving. Thief has very forgiving stealth mechanics, but do you think this is fair because the entire class is pretty unforgiving?

jportell.2197:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Switch to turrets with the reflect trait.

So your advice to counter turrets is more turrets… Logic.

Pffft. My turrets are the best turrets.

Booms.2594:

our forum specialist is a turret engi((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

i enjoy fighting engis on guardian..

Nah, I only play it after I do a double at work and I’m sick. That, or if I just am in that mood where I hate humanity (Lich me or banner my kills enough and it’s coming). I’m actually usually either Cele engi, 100 mines, shatter mesmer, D/P thief or power ranger. I use to play Power Nades, hell even assassin nades just to give myself a challenge xD. I also dabble on everything to get some perspective on it.

First off, this isn’t any special request from the devs. Just me wondering about this.

As I read through the forums a lot, I see that the vast majority of posts are about builds that players don’t like (S/D thief, turret engi, power necro, etc etc). I was wondering, what do you enjoy fighting and what do you like fighting it as? For example, I love fighting other cele engis on my cele engi. Really any mirror match is fun for me. I also love fighting against power rangers if I’m specced into reflection (Reflect turrets or reflect shatter).

Are there builds that counter you somewhat but you still enjoy fighting? For example, I like fighting necromancers even on engineer. Winning against them causes me to start screaming “BEST ENGI NA” in TS.

Switch to turrets with the reflect trait.

I’m definitely taking down some of the suggestions here.

Couple more general questions on top of that:

1. A lot of players here are saying ‘Necro is fine, you just need to build around it’. If you are building the optimal team for tournaments, why would you want to do that? Why isn’t something like war, ele, engi, engi, thief just the way better option because they can all handle themselves? Even mesmer and power ranger seem to hold their own better than necromancer (that said, I’m terrible at necro).
2. I like a few of the trait suggestions, but what specific suggestions do you think will help necro with its main problem: Surviving team fights.
3. If your team is terrible at peeling for you, what do you do to stay alive?
4. I find a difficulty of staying alive is two things:
   1. It’s hard to get death shroud when you have none.
   2. It’s hard to heal while focused because you have nothing to cover it with or sustain you (besides maybe wurm/spectral walk)

Harvest.2506:

coax.2951:

Harvest.2506:

Booms.3952:

in all his time boasting about being #1 surely he couldve read one of the blog posts about the season dates and rewards

But to your original point, yeah I read ends Jan 13 which is fine the Leaderboard keep going so that means we’re in a new season. then load and behold today we have new or another test season with no announcement on my rewards with everything I did the past 3 months.

You just assumed things, turns out you were wrong. That you have invested that much time without the desired reward is unfortunate, but you already got a clear response from Grouch.

I’ve given my Clear Rebuttal. This is not an RNG Its a season. That you would not be just as concern for the treatment of pvp rewards is disheartening, but understandable considering you’ve probably haven’t invested as much time, or care at this point. But I’m not like you, I still care, very much about this games future to look beyond being a lawyer to cover technicalities like many people are.

I stand by the Fact it is morally wrong to continue the leaderboard after a season and then not reward for work done and data gathered for the time after. You can go on as many technicalities you like to cover, but at the end of the day burning people like me will just make the game poorer.

I’ve got your feedback and it’s in my report. I suggested that they note in game when there is an off season.

I think it is important to keep in mind that this is a test season. Let’s say that they try this algorithm and it turns out it stinks. Do we really want precursors up for grabs if it stinks? Imagine if the reward for the previous ladder test was a legendary! I can clearly see, however, they may have dipped into the other extreme of rewards that people pretty much already have. What about things like:

1. Straight up gems
2. Laurels
3. Exotic container (no precursors possible)

Chaos Archangel.5071:

@Gates Assassin: The build you mentioned actually works pretty well, but it doesn’t address Mesmers main issues:

• Lack of definable role
• Sub-par vs Celestial specs.

Trading boonstrip for reflects/survivability is nice, but as it stands boonstrip is more valuable, especially with the stab changes. What utilities did ya grab?

I change my utilities depending on the enemies. Lots of slow classes? Portal. Lots of engis/rangers? Feedback. Lots of thieves/mesmers? Mantra of distraction. Lots of confirmed condi people? Mantra of Cleansing.

Roe.3679:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Personally, I sometimes try to play condi necro. Try.

I remember I was on a fight on Foefire and I put my wurm on up the high ledge. Not the one near the side points, the one that’s in timbucktoo near the gates of your based. A thief chased after me, so I tried to pressure him off, but he just kept blind spamming me and dodging my transfers. So I teleported away (with almost no health left) and healed back up. Then I saw him teleport up to me, so I spectral walked off the cliff to try to lose him. Then I spectral walked back onto the high ledge AND HE KEPT FOLLOWING ME. I died.

I’ve never seen any class more hunted than the necromancer. If the other team even smells me, they’ll follow me to Lion’s Arch to hunt me down. Not out of fear of my power, but because they know focus will take me down.

Does anyone else have the same issue on necromancer?

Pretty normal experience, I’ve definitely had that happen. I played a match this morning in courtyard where I was moa’d, magnet pulled, slick shoes’d and banished all in a few seconds.

You poor thing. Sorry for laughing xD

jportell.2197:

So it’s pretty safe to say thread=derailed. Is it possible to get the forum specialist to kinda summarize what the constructive posts have stated? >.<

What I basically got from all of this is that:

1. Some players feel that power builds are requiring way to perfect of play to actually be viable in a real setting. Shatter mesmer is a perfect example.
   1. Supcutie: “Should playing power be rewarding? Yes. Should playing power be so disproportionately more difficult? Probably not.”
2. Low tiers, mesmer isn’t great (because players aren’t great at mesmer)
3. Top tiers, mesmer isn’t great (because players ARE great and know how to hunt them).
4. Mid and high tiers, mesmer is great (scary even).
5. Some players think simply adding a small amount of condition removal to standard shatter mesmer would help it as right now mesmers often need smart teammates to clear condis for them.
6. Thief tends to cover the bases that mesmer can do (Burst, mobility, teleports, interrupts) and do them better, leaving mesmer with only a few assets to the team that thief doesn’t (Portal, more boon removal, stealth reses/moa).

I’ve actually been playing shatter mesmer a lot lately and I was wondering if anyone attempts to run (0/4/0/4/6) instead? You get feedback on pretty much every res, eliminating nade, shortbow thief and warrior longbow pressure from the meta builds (not to mention power rangers!). You also remove two conditions on heal, which was identified as a major concern for the build. As for damage, I can still wipe out about 50-75% of the light golem health with a standard Mirror Blade Shatter + Mind Stab combo. That’s pretty on par with regular shatter mesmer. The only thing you really lose is vuln on daze, boon removal and halting strike. I think that’s pretty solid, and you can survive a LOT longer with that single condition removal.

Sure, no boon removal, but you get a lot of support and the ability to survive if an ele, god forbid, taps you with their burning. Also, you still have portal and lots of reflects available.

As a suggestion, what do you think about:

1. Ether Feast – Remove two conditions if you have two or more clones.

Dawdler.8521:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Does anyone else have the same issue on necromancer?

Not really -_-

Granted, Thieves are dangerous foes in any situation, but I have always found it easy to counter them as a Necro. Drop staff marks, drop damage well, Thief is lucky if he’s still alive. If he is, ds and AoE bomb his kitten (again). The more power specced you are, the easier it becomes to quickly counter them. Tbh I still prefer bunker MM though. As long as you have the staff, even that mediocre damage is enough. Plus I am never hunted. I am right there on the central cap, holding it. The enemy always come, until they give up, lol. What where you even doing worming and spectral walking all over the place? Doesnt sound like you where even trying to win the round.

I’m talking about Terrormancer not Minion Master

MM might have some survivability in a 1v1, but as a nade engi, I smile a bit when I see that build. I find it very easy to destroy all of the minions in a few throws then go right for the necro. If thieves are dying to that build, they aren’t using shortbow right. Few clusterbombs from behind a wall should be more than enough to make that an easy fight to win.

The defensive teleports let me take a second to reset, find better positioning, let my cooldowns come back and escape from multiple stab wounds. If I just stay in the fight, I’m going to die to a focused burst. I’d love to stay in the fight, but I find terrormancer just can’t do that if they are targeted. It’s counter pressure or gtfo. Sometimes, I just don’t have the DS to counterpressure, especially at the start of a fight.

GhOst.4019:

Welcome to Necro.

I miss when necros could counter pressure without having to blow fears or take 0 stun breakers.

Personally, I sometimes try to play condi necro. Try.

I remember I was on a fight on Foefire and I put my wurm on up the high ledge. Not the one near the side points, the one that’s in timbucktoo near the gates of your based. A thief chased after me, so I tried to pressure him off, but he just kept blind spamming me and dodging my transfers. So I teleported away (with almost no health left) and healed back up. Then I saw him teleport up to me, so I spectral walked off the cliff to try to lose him. Then I spectral walked back onto the high ledge AND HE KEPT FOLLOWING ME. I died.

I’ve never seen any class more hunted than the necromancer. If the other team even smells me, they’ll follow me to Lion’s Arch to hunt me down. Not out of fear of my power, but because they know focus will take me down.

Does anyone else have the same issue on necromancer?

The f….

Can someone break this down for me? Is this extra damage while downed + chill of death?

One question:

1. It seems pretty agreed on that skills like Rampage as One and Lich Lord should be every 6 seconds instead of every 3s, but what about less used elites like Tornado, Dagger Storm and Rampage? Do they deserve to be every 3s because they aren’t used as much?

Would this still be considered OP if any one of these happened?:

1. Cast time raised to 1s (from 3/4)
   1. I’m not afraid to admit I have trouble dodging this on purpose.
2. Recharge raised to 90s
   1. This means it won’t be available every fight.
3. Health of roots reduced by half
   1. Sometimes I find on classes that aren’t engi that it can be hard to kill the roots.
4. Line of sight requirement
   1. Someone mentioned getting people from below kylho, but it’s equally annoying when you are hit from behind a wall.
5. Blockable
   1. “B-b-but…I gear shielded that!” /cry

Again, only one of those. Not all.

I think it’s easy to say something is unbalanced at a first glance, but when you really start to see the intricacies of the downed state, you see that it allows for a lot of really cool things. I’d say the only thing I don’t like about the downed state is necro downed state skills and bleeding people out. Otherwise, builds like 100 mines wouldn’t exist (BEST BUILD EVER) because it does way too much damage and it would insta kill people, rather than insta down people.

Not only is downed state not killing PvP, I think it is what defines PvP. How well you handle your team going down changes absolutely everything. A team that was ahead and decides to go for a multi-res could completely wipe, thus turning the game around. Decided between DPSing the enemy down to get a rally, resing an ally or interrupting a stomp is a huge decision and one that takes a lot of understanding of the game and quick thinking.

When I play, I find that certain mesmers in the game make me shiver in my little engi boots. If I see L Ipnotico, arete or sup cutie on the other team, I die a little bit inside. I have out right refused to do 1v1s against my friend’s mesmer cuz it’s just a massacre for my engi repeatedly. If it’s just some random mesmer, I’m really not afraid at all.

With many players I generally don’t find they dislike mesmers, but they’d much prefer to have a solid base to the team (two eles + war) before they start going crazy with a mesmer thief combo. Are you being told to switch classes when you have a solid base?

What could you really add to make mesmer more viable without sending it over the top? The most I could see is maybe throwing a single condition removal on their healing skill so they aren’t just dead if you get 20s of burn on them. Other than that, their burst makes me cry, portal plays done well make me feel like an idiot and their mobility is pretty strong. Is there something you feel they’re missing?

Just wanna step in and say I’ll definitely be relaying this in my report. Great research and info!

Saturn.6591:

Now, you say we do not want dailies that do not encourage any bad behaviour. Yet, you praise the posts of Shyio and Lopez, who both proposed “win x matches” as a daily. How would that be any different from what we have now? People will just afk as soon as they think the match will be lost, so they can get into another match more quickly.

We’ve had daily wins in the past. Did this occur often?

Shiyo.3578:

Killing 20 players is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many and would encourage people to ignore objectives and just kill people.

Personally (maybe it’s the builds I run), I get anywhere from 8-12 kills per match. 20 Kills is basically 2-4 matches at the most, even if you’re a bunker getting tags.

It seems like no matter what dailies Anet picks, there will be a small group of people who will attempt to game the system to get them done quicker. I don’t think there’s any way to fix that besides maybe a report button for that offense. Leeching/Giving up/going afk in a match is against the rules and is bannable.

What I do think we can fix is the problem that these new dailies have created, which is the requirement to do something you don’t want to do in order to get the full daily reward (ie, playing a different class). Daily Profession, restrict players who are playing PvP the right way.

Now while most players seem to not like Daily Profession, some players do like this as a way to mix up their play. It might be possible to simply add more dailies and leave Daily Profession in there as another option. The issue is that if daily profession is the easiest way to finish up the daily, players will do that instead of these other options. While that allows PvPers to get their dailies their own way, this doesn’t fix the influx of certain professions on these Dailies. Even if Daily Profession isn’t the easiest way to get the daily done, you still have players trying the daily profession out, creating that influx which creates matches with 4 thieves across both teams.

That’s sort of what I’m getting from this thread. Any disagreement?

Saturn.6591:

I didn’t actually get any comments to my previous idea, so I’m not sure if anyone has actually seen it. So, allow me to mention it again and elaborate on it:

My idea was/is, to make it “Gain 200 points personal score (with class xy).” You can tie this to a profession, or not. The reason why I think this might work better is:

1. You do have to actively play and thus contribute
2. The more you contribute, the faster you have your daily done
3. It’s not tied to win or loss, so it still helps your daily progress if you help in a match that might be lost (meaning players will not be encouraged to just go afk to make the match end faster)

What do you think?

Edit: And of course… please, if you tie it to a class, make all classes have an equal chance of being chosen. Put it on RNG at least.

The only issue I see with this is it encourages you do go for whatever grants you the most points, not helps you team the most. For example, the trebuchet grants a lot of points, as does getting lots of decaps. I could see players purposely standing on points together to cap it just so they get the personal points. This certainly happened when personal points gave you equal rank points. Going for the bosses on forest is 25 points, which is definitely not always the optimal thing to go for.

Let’s say the daily was literally this:

1. Daily Match Winner (Win 2 Practice, Unranked or Ranked Matches).
2. Daily Map Player (Play on two distinct maps)
3. Daily Kills (Kill 20 players)

This means you could probably get your dailies done in two matches and the effect on the gameplay itself would be minimal. Would you be okay with this as the daily every day?