*A group of 5-10 thieves will do more damage/kill more people of varying other classes then the other way around
No… the synergy that varying classes can provide will drastically mitigate the burst and CC thieves. Any thief that gets focused would die very very quickly. Unless they are just a group of roaming cattle the thieves would get owned hard.
I have seen it happen. You get 2 or 3 of the thieves target the same person, that person WILL die. What i saw from a fight (afar) they had several small “groups” it was like 2-3 per a group that would all target someone and nuke them down not actually kill them just get them into down state before moving on to next then they had a couple going around just “tagging” the down state people to stop the heal and keep them down, it worked very well and you could tell they were on Vent or something
The ONLY defense to that is bunch up and spam AoE. They cant be killed thanks to perma-stealth and though they didnt kill all of them, none of the thieves died and several of the other people did die. I would say that was a win for the Thief group.
Oh no well coordinated people who are focus firing are beating uncoordinated people. OP
Yes its Overpowered BECAUSE and as stated ALOT the fact that they have obscene damage, have far to much combat speed and the fact that Stealth is insanely broken, It wasnt thst the Thieves were better, it was the fact that they couldn’t be targeted thanks to the fact they were pretty much all in stealth for most of the fight.
If thieves were in stealth doing nothing for most of the fight I would like to know where their obscene damage came from. Backstab? Sure 2-3 people all landing backstab at the same time on one person will instantly down them just like 2-3 people of any other class working together for a well placed combo. You even said it yourself that the thieves were highly coordinated and probably on vent. Also since most of the skills in the game don’t require you to have a character selected I suggest guessing where the thief will be and firing there. Let me give you a hint. If they are using backstab then generally they will be you guessed, behind you. After thieves land their backstab combo you have 3 seconds before they can stealth again. This is plenty of time to cc/burst down a thief. If the thief was doing obscene amounts of damage like you said they were then it should be rather easy to kill them since they will be running you guessed it, high damage builds with low survivability.
*A group of 5-10 thieves will do more damage/kill more people of varying other classes then the other way around
No… the synergy that varying classes can provide will drastically mitigate the burst and CC thieves. Any thief that gets focused would die very very quickly. Unless they are just a group of roaming cattle the thieves would get owned hard.
I have seen it happen. You get 2 or 3 of the thieves target the same person, that person WILL die. What i saw from a fight (afar) they had several small “groups” it was like 2-3 per a group that would all target someone and nuke them down not actually kill them just get them into down state before moving on to next then they had a couple going around just “tagging” the down state people to stop the heal and keep them down, it worked very well and you could tell they were on Vent or something
The ONLY defense to that is bunch up and spam AoE. They cant be killed thanks to perma-stealth and though they didnt kill all of them, none of the thieves died and several of the other people did die. I would say that was a win for the Thief group.
Oh no well coordinated people who are focus firing are beating uncoordinated people. OP
You can choose to open the chest at a later date if I remember correctly. Having said that once you pick the weapon it is unlocked forever, meaning you can get unlimited amounts of it for ALL your alts. If you have the ticket method instead you would only EVER get 1 of said weapon – not good.
I addressed this issue of alts. Also the weapon skin isn’t the only thing people may want from the chest would be nice if they could get those without picking the skin as well.
Make it so that the chest gives a ticket similar to say a Jade one so that a player can cakitten in for a weapon skin of their choice at a vendor in lion’s arch whenever they want instead of having to pick immediately. As I have heard you can pick a weapon skin and receive it once per day so then just make it so that the ticket removes the cost from an item.
(edited by TheAmpca.1753)
In order to fix this rather broken meta, I think we would really need to rethink stealth as it is (my suggestion make stealthed players appear semi-transparent to their enemies, just like they are rendered to their enemies). The critical damage % needs to be capped to same levels as it is possible with optimal tpvp gear, thus no +110% crit , but something closer to +60 max. Note that these suggested changes would apply to all professions.
How about this as a fix to Thieves and Stealth, Either:
A. Give them a debuff while in stealth, they deal 50% less damage. This way, they will have to open up in normal attacks before they can burst giving you enough time t know what the hell is going on – Could even make it so it stacks, the more time in stealth the less damage they will do
B. Give them a Cool down on stealth, like they come out of stealth and they cant re-enter for X number of seconds (5would be reasonable)
C. Remove the initiative crap and give the skills they have an actual cool down, thus they wont be perma stealthed thieves anymore
Thieves being able to jump in and out of stealth at the blink of an eye is seriously broken. Either give then a debuff while they are in stealth or give them a cool down on using Stealth skills
I do not know where to begin with the stupidity of this post.
A. If you do this you better buff the hell out of the thiefs skills when not in stealth. It also removes the whole point of the class and turns it into a warrior that can make himself invisible for some time.
B. this made me /facepalm. This mechanic already exists it’s called revealed. Since you don’t even know this I can see why you have such a misinformed post.
C. The whole point of initiative is so that skills can be reused. I am not even going to begin to go into how much this would kitten over the class and force an entire remake of the class.
I can think of one change that would be needed to make this work.
right now ranks 2, 3 and 4 require 1000 wxp and rank 5 requires 2000 wxp. all ranks after 5 require 5000 wxp. this needs to be changed so that all ranks require 5000 wxp, otherwise people will just make level 1 alts and grind them up to rank 4 over and over in order to get lots of ranks on their account.
I assume that only the rank points themselves would be account-wide? but the rank chest reward would still be specific to the character that gained that rank?
-ken
You missed my point here. Your rank is account wide like in sPvP. If you made a new character they would not start at rank 1 they would start at your current rank.
Agreed, this is how it should be, similar to sPvP ranks, there are no good reasons why the ranks are account bound, it is plain stupid and discourages people to make alts even more.
Fotm ranks, dyes, ascended items soulbound and takes a lot of time to get another set for an alt, same with legendaries etc etc, some account bound stuff are not that bad, what I do not get is wvw ranks. Especially why cant we reset the wvw abilities ? what harm could it possibly do ?I don’t think they want you to be able to retrait for individual engagements. Changing your mastery to fit what you need now. I think they want you to use the points to “gear” your toon for particular jobs. At least thats what I get from it.
You can only retrait outside of WvW or from spawn of WvW. Problem solved.
If you wanted a thief so you could run around in large groups you made a good decision. In large groups you want to run dagger storm and the signet that gives you hp when you attack. You want to run with some healing power and toughness/vitality both traited to 30. You also want the trait that gives you hp on using initiative, condi removal when you go into stealth as well as regen when in stealth. You should have blinding powder shadow refuge and signet of shadows.
All you have to do is run with the commander when you ball up during zerg fights. Press your elite skill and then spam cluster bomb on your location while using short bow. You will tag A LOT of people in zergs as well as being quite tanky with lots of sustain.
So you’d split the ranks from the points or for each rank all your characters get a point to spend?
Good question let me clarify. Each rank you get gives you 1 traitable point for each character. So if I were to get to rank 230 on my thief and trait every point and then I made a new character and went in to WvW that character would also be rank 230 and have 230 rank points to allocate. Also if I were to say get another rank on my thief both classes would be rank 231 and both classes could allocate another point.
i guess he/she means if you have 20 ranks on one char and 30 on another you should have 50 (on your account) and can distribute 50 on each character at your pleasure (each character can spend 50 points in the traits he want).
Not exactly. I mean that you should not have 20 ranks on one character and 30 ranks on another. You should just have 50 ranks across all chacters like in sPvP
I don’t see why auto-loot doesn’t simply put the loot into your bag for WvW.
This is because of the system lags when you do this for some technical reason.
On another note having autoloot just act as a toggle doesn’t sound so bad. It could tick every 1.3 seconds or something.
Fort Aspenwood is a T2 server whose strong points are from 3pm PST to 11pm PST which enables us to keep even footing with higher tier servers during this time and completely crush lower tier servers. However our server has a very little amount of people past these timezones. We have some Oceanics but we need you!
What FA has to offer to you and your guild:
1. Public TeamSpeak with private channels for when your guild is not in WvW
2. Cheerful community
3. Top notch open field fighting tactics (especially in EB)
4. Server Website for discussing both WvW and the game in general
5. Canadians
6. and more!
Come to FA we have free cookies!
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Make your rank account bound. Make point allocation soul bound. Give the option to retrait points. Cost of resetting points will be 1 badge per rank you have. Give us a leadership trait line akin to the one in Planetside 2. (without spawn beacons ofc :P )
For Clarity:
Rank – Your total wvw rank, you will have 1 rank, and that is determined by how much you play wvw. All your characters will share this same rank. Lets say your rank is 50 for example purposes.
Soulbound allocation of points: Think of this like a characters wvw RANK build, each character has 50 points to spend because you are rank 50.
Retraiting your wvw rank build: It would cost 50 badges (because you are rank 50) to reset a characters wvw rank build so they could re-assign points.
(edited by TheAmpca.1753)
Eh I am on FA and our problem seems to be that whenever we are faced with the worlds directly above us (TC and DB) we get our kitten handed to us but when we face the lower worlds it is just a farm fest.
Not sure what Anets stance on this would be however I do know that it has been said that Anet uses the bag system due to system limitations but are looking into a better system.
Necros and then thiefs. Plague form and death shroud for necroes. Cluster bomb spam and dagger storm for thieves. I guarantee that in a 50 zerg fight you will tag at least 35 people but normally closer to 45.
you sound like you play onlyusemethief and leave the 4 other character spaces empty.
counter a backstab with a stunbreaker what logic is that?? i dont know if you noticed but not every class has access to aegis and moving around only slightly helps since thieves are still the fastest class and most of the time you have to blow both evades.
before you start telling everybody else to L2P you yourself need to L2P
Stunbreaker = for basilisk venom since every backstab thief runs it
thats’s why aegis was low on the list
moving around helps tremendously as well as well timed dodge rolls you can evade backstab for the entire stealth duration quite easily.
On another note making stealth semi visible is such a kitten dumb idea. Why the hell would I go into stealth if my enemy can see me anyways. Sure it may be harder for them to see me but they can still see me as well as guess where I am and spam aoes.
Don’t come complaining to the forums when a thief destroys you. Most solo thieves are running some form of backstab which quite frankly is insanely easy to counter if you know what you are doing. Ways to stop backstab:
1. Stunbreaker
2. Moving around so the thief has a hard time maximizing backstab damage
3. Aegis
I wont discuss how to counter other thiefs like S/D since no one really seems to complain about them. (except in Spvp which i could care less about)
Also for those people who think stealth is OP let me take a minute to laugh at you. Stealth is not OP. Stealth/ (decent)regeneration is the only survivability thiefs have. Sure it is really easy to disengage a fight as a thief and run away. Not OP, working as intended and perfectly balanced. Now if thiefs had the same base defensive stats as say necros then with the addition of stealth thieves would be way overpowered.
Tldr: You can counter thiefs. You shouldn’t be roaming solo if you are complete squish. Stealth is not OP. Thiefs are hard to kill big deal.
Said better than me:
If they are DD you control when they C&D… learn the animation and you can dodge that.
If they are DP you watch for when they raise their pistol. Avoid that blind shot, then cc them. The heartseeker leap finisher won’t finish and they won’t gain stealth.
In both cases they lose a lot of ini. That’s the lifeblood of a thief. A thief with less ini can do less. A thief with no ini is a dead thief.
If they do stealth then you control the fight by your own movement. Make it hard for them to backstab you and you’ll know where they are from that alone.
Stealth isn’t invuln… you can still hit them when they are stealthed (watch your mele auto chain).
I have no problem predicting them on my eng… who only has the toolkit for mele… because I understand the thief class well having plaid one before.
You just need to learn what thieves do and how to act/react in that given situation. there is prediction involved, but I control what’s going on even when they are stealthed (unless they just run away).
There is only no risk to the thief if you act like grazing cattle once they try to stealth (which is what far too many people do).
The thief can disengage when they want to… but that’s part of the class design. In fact… they NEED to disengage and re-engage frequently. They lack staying power. That’s the same reason why they aren’t often wanted for group compositions.
The trick to killing a thief is to make him over commit and try to disengage when it’s already too late.
Even if they do get away… so what. What is that solo roaming gank thief really going to do that matters in WvW?
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If not will we see another permanent pick? I am quite disappointed I missed this while I was taking a break from the game and would like to see something like it come back.
So it no longer steals health from guards and gives you a total of 100 power and 100 condition damage (for 5 stacks) instead. I’m glad they made it global rather than guard specific in attempt to put it on par with Applied Fortitude. But have a crit based build with very few conditions I feel like it isn’t helping me much. Do others feel the same or?
the 100 power wont help at all?
I’m running around 2.5k power, so essentially I’m getting around a very small percentage increase in power which seems to equate to less than 1% increased damage output. I think when comparing this to applied fortitude, I have 10.6k health and I get an additional 25% up to 13.1k health it seems lacklustre.
Also, as I have had Guard leaching for some time I actually found the heal made me play a little differently and I was able to be in combat with players whilst around guards and “leach” health from them to maintain my health pool as the heal was pretty strong.
So, basically, for my gameplay with alterations to adapt to the old bonus it seems like not only statistically a worse option than applied fortitude but a nerf to the usefulness of it. Like I say, the fact that they made it a global bonus is great, but it seems so much weaker than applied fortitude which is meant to be an equal upgrade.
How the hell do you have 10k hp. Well of course if you are a glass cannon and you add some extra damage it will be less effective than adding defensive stats in terms of percentages. You are right though, the numbers may need some tweaking but they look fine to me. A big reason for this change was to make it like you said in line with applied fortitude but to also make it an offensive trait. Think about it, lifesteal is a heal and a defensive thing, not something I may be looking for when speccing into a damage line.
which is quite inconvenient
I’m playing the world’s tiniest violin for you, bro. I know how difficult it can be to not rub your face against the gate pounding your one key.
Uh no. The farther away you stand from the gate the more area you have to cover which spreads out your forces and makes it you guessed it, harder to kill not only eles but everyone. A spread out force is also requires more time to react to a surprise attack from an enemy zerg. These trade offs highly outweigh the ability to kill all the eles and is why no one uses them.
A bunched up force makes it easier for me to farm you with an AC. Try this amazing new concept I just invented, literally this very second: have people spread out and watch for approaching enemies and then report it back to the main group. I’m going to call these watchers “scouts” for simplicity.
It doesn’t because you can spam water fields much more effectively in a grouped up formation. Also correct me if I am wrong but siege caps at hitting 20 people at once. Yes you can use scouts to report back to the main group if an enemy zerg is incoming but you will not get enough people to drop what they are doing because a scout spotted a single (or a few) elementalists. It just is not worth it.
which is quite inconvenient
I’m playing the world’s tiniest violin for you, bro. I know how difficult it can be to not rub your face against the gate pounding your one key.
Uh no. The farther away you stand from the gate the more area you have to cover which spreads out your forces and makes it you guessed it, harder to kill not only eles but everyone. A spread out force is also requires more time to react to a surprise attack from an enemy zerg. These trade offs highly outweigh the ability to kill all the eles and is why no one uses them.
I would highly recommend FA if the kind of server you are looking for is one that crushes in open field fights. We may not have the best coverage but in EB during Na prime time we crush in open field fights.
Does the thief trait that grants +1 second to stealth skills apply to the blast combo finisher as well?
Eh for this to happen they would need to move towers/camps and rework the entire map layout in order to keep the ppt earned from bl in line with eb.
However if they decided to simply increase the ppt from eb or add stuff there as well (it’s already the most crowded map though) I could see them adding towers or stuff to that side of the map.
It’s also important to note that this land was there for a reason when the altars still held orbs. It was set in place to make sure servers had enough distance to run with the orb so counterplay could be involved with that. Even though they are gone now I remember reading somewhere that anet wanted to bring them back/replace them.
Oh hey. This same thread is also in the elementalist forums. I’ll just copy post my response from there.
“We shouldn’t be discouraging the creative use of abilities. It takes away from tactics and strategies that can be used and makes the game less dynamic and interesting.”
You are wrong here. You make the assumption that the more ways you can use the skill the more dynamic the game is which is where you go wrong. Vapor form makes it so that if you want to stop an ele from entering a tower/keep you need to down him quite far away from the keep which is quite inconvenient since it forces players to stand farther away from the gate which means that a larger radius must be guarded in turn spreading out the forces and making it harder to kill the ele and other classes.
However in practice this sort of counter play is not used due to the fact that it is just not worth it and as long as an ele makes it fairly close to the tower without being downed they can make it into the tower. What this does is actually unhealthy for the game because this discourages player interaction with that ele since they will make it into the tower whatever the player does. This lack of interaction makes the game less dynamic and interesting.
Thats in line with the Elementalist frost bow distance 900.
1200 for bows is reserved for rangers…
You guys can still become invisible…
Someone finally called us Thieves out with common sense! (and I’m not being sarcastic)
The point is: we have Stealth. Bows are for kiddy-wanna-bee Rangers. I think some of these Thieves played games where Rangers had stealth and thought they would have the same type of fun with a Thief running around with a Bow.
First of all may I point out warriors have a 1200 range on their bow(I think?). Either way the point is not that oh my god I want to be able to shoot a bow at 1200 range. It’s I want to be able to shoot SOMETHING at 1200 range. Oh yay I have stealth which makes me immune to the mass amount of aoes i have to walk into in WvW to get in range to shoot, except for the fact that it doesn’t.
A BOW is not a main viable weapon for Thieves. If you, like so many I kill, use it as a main weapon you seriously need help, in the head.
who said we’re using it as a main weapon?
shouldn’t you be allowed at times when you’re low on health, go on range?
shouldn’t you be allowed to go on range on say.. walls?
since every other classes classes have 1200 ranged weaps?so you’re saying that a specific class should only go melee all time, while
others can switch as the situation suits it?and since you’re so already good killing thieves,
even with this already weak weapon that got nerfed yet again,
why should you get your panties in a bunch?
.I fight countless Thieves in this game using Bow as their main weapon all the time. My point I was making is that most of the players complaining are those types of players.
I don’t use bows, at all. I have never relied on the ability as a ranged ability or a get-away ability, either. I find Bows to be useless in many aspects of the game. For PVE it has horrible damage for single targets over duel pistols. And anyone running from me in PVP is going to take far more damage with Duel pistols vs. a tiny Bow.
99% of you players are D/D & Short Bow (offset). If I had relied on a bow since launch and these changes took effect, sure they would probably bother me more. Instead I took the tougher less traveled road and went S/P & P/P and learned how to get out of bad situations without the need for a Bow.
I am the 1% spec in this game and I realize that. But to literally fight a Thief that’s using his/her Bow on me the entire fight? That’s just ridiculous and pathetic.
The point of this thread is because Thieves have horrible time in groups. This ranges from having to get closer than everyone to do a large event such as jormag or a straight up WvW fight. (I am not talking about PvP at all I could care less about that). In WvW if you are defending/assaulting a tower you need 1200 range skill to hit people from/on walls.
What is this about. Cluster bomb was our only 1200 range skill across all weapons. It totally screws over thieves in WvW. Why???? It better be in preparation for rifle or something that has 1200 range.
Same issue here – 1KB back to 0KB and then states connectivity error, will retry.
I have this exact issue
Meh @ your “epic” weapons. Don’t you think people will just grind this exp instead? I do like the idea but it seems like it’s still a grind.
I don’t get why you take this position that market manipulators are bad. They buy low and sell high (if they are good) why do you care? From what I’m understanding from you, you want to be able to sell your items at a higher price than what the lowest offer is which is something you can already do (just set a custom price). The only bonus I can see from having person to person trade besides the role playing implications is that you can rip oblivious people off.
@the person above me. Get new “friends” your current ones just scammed you. (or you sent it to the wrong person)
orrrr when you sent the mail your friends already had 10 mails and they need to delete one before they will see the one you sent you
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Honestly couldn’t you guys just make another guild? I know you would have to work up to all the upgrades and it would take some time to make sure everyone knows (if you can set the message displayed in the guild info then that could make it easier to let everyone know) but this is a solution. However, I do recognize that it would be simply better in your case for anet to promote someone since he has been gone for two months but I’d be worried if this became a feature and people abused it to take down guilds.
This game is based around being able to customize easily so why does it take so much effort if you want to have multiple builds? If I want to have a power and condition damage build on my thief with the same look that I like then I have to get a total of 300 Skill points plus the materials to make mystic weapons and do coe a total of around 50 times. What happened to no grinding? Of course it shouldn’t be super easy but this just seems a bit much imo.
Anet: Easier customization! This will lead to people staying longer because you wont be forced to use the same tactics when you fight. You get to explore more and play the entire game not just one build of it.
Logan = Lose again
Am I the only one finding that you don’t get credited for this achievement a lot of the time? Does the present have to reset or something?
They’re not resource nodes. They’re finite and pretty random at that. Also there’s much better ways to get them. Is it really causing that much of a problem?
It’s not a huge problem and I assume it is not a problem at all in the T4 and lower WvW servers but on places like IoJ when we are trying to attack somewhere and the queues are filling up a bit earlier due to people who haven’t come for WvW it is a tad bit annoying.
Honestly I’m not against having benefits in WvW I think it’s a great idea, but it should be in a way that encourages people to attack/defend key objectives.
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Oh hey look people are farming presents, anyone care to explain?
I do like this idea, would give some more reason to try to farm an area other than Orr. Would be interesting to have the entire map be filled with dungeon strength creatures
If more Assasing (word?) armours were available in the Gem shop, i would buy without hesitation!
All i have now that suit my Thief are Duelist or T3 – the rest are Trenchcoats :-(
Inquest, whispers, a few others if I remem right
No mater what the power level of thieves are relative to the rest of the professions there will always be people calling for nerfs. It’s just the plight of stealth classes in MMOs. Even if thieves were the weakest class in the game, someone would be able to kill an up-leveled noobie in WvW who would make a forum post about how unfair stealth is.
If you like the stealth archetype just stick with it for the entire roller coaster ride of power because it always happens.
Actually this isn’t quite true. Aika online is a good example of how a balanced stealth class can exist.
If this game is based on being able to customize everything about your character why are all the skins locked to different class types. If I want to play a guardian charr who is really strong and powerful why can’t I also make him look like a fairy princess? I do agree in WvW and sPvP you should be able to tell what class type by the armor, but in PvE? Honestly in addition to this there are so many clothing types that have been completely ignored in this game, such as monk robes and many asian stylings that I would like to see.
I like my Inquest armor tyvm
I’m not making fun of this profession, I’m not being sarcastic, I honestly enjoy the playstyle. Yes its the easiest thing in the world to do, but when you’re frustrated and need a break from whatever you’re doing, easy helps.
Hitting someone for 5-7k with one button, feels kitten amazing, period. Ty Anet
Uhm wrong forum, I think the forum you are looking for is called “warrior”
The only update to WvW for this event will be new passive mobs and a new snow skin for the ground. DO NOT UP ORE NODES LIKE THE CANDY CORN! I know you haven’t released it yet, but please, don’t do this to the WvW community again.
Should I go Power/prec/crit dmg or should I be getting condition damage?
Might want to come to Island of Janthir then. Community is mainly focused on WvW but we do have enough people running flavor of the month dugeon.
Meh thiefs CAN run heal builds but it’s kind of pointless when you can either burst your enemy down or get bursted down in about half a second. However, for PvE encounters heal builds can be quite useful but aren’t really seen that much since people looking for that playstyle don’t roll thief.
The medium exotic coat has clipping issues. When you have your weapons out but sheathed they clip through the coat
The color is supposed to be blue like all the other Mystic forge weapons but it is red like it’s Crucible of Eternity counterpart.