Contrary to popular belief over-nerfing is always perferable to under-nerfing. You can always prop classes you nerfed back up if its too much. Everything is being ruined right now by these handful of op builds.
“You can always prop classes you nerfed back up if its too much.”
Yeah, after you’ve made a large portion of the ones playing it quit.
cough mesmers cough
You know, that class they nerfed into the ground, and decided to finally buff with an elite spec?
(Not saying mesmer isn’t OP atm, it is)
It’s easier to balance classes by tweaking things, than it is with a massive nerf/buff.
All massive nerfs/buffs do is cause huge swings in class popularity, ultimately kittening everyone off.
That said, not nerfing enough is also ineffective, and just kittenes everyone off as well.
shrug
Since they said “hotfix”, it’s reasonable to assume they mean on the same day, or the next day.
If it takes longer than that, then it’s not a hotfix, it’s a patch.
Where are the mesmer and rev change?
“As a note, not all of the changes listed above will be in the first build on December 15, but instead in a hotfix that will happen shortly afterwards.”
Man, you guys need to learn to read.
Since when does “not all” mean the same as “none”?
It’ll be in a hotfix.
Now chill.
Where are the mesmer and rev change?
“As a note, not all of the changes listed above will be in the first build on December 15, but instead in a hotfix that will happen shortly afterwards.”
Man, you guys need to learn to read.
90% of the entertainment is twitch chat, 10% is the casters trying desperately to make the game interesting.
I just found my new signature until this kitten is fixed.
The Mesmer one? Taking two of one or two of two classes should never be optimal in a properly balanced game.
It can be optimal given certain contexts. Say counter picking and what not.
But I agree, it shouldn’t be the meta.
As a mesmer main…
The block wasn’t the issue.
Make WoP not contribute to capture points, and leave the block as is for now.
If Mesmer is still too strong after that, then look towards the block/gravity well.
?
Why are people saying -just dodge the DH traps-?
Is this still a thing? people are going to pretend that invisible burst is okay. It doesn’t matter how squishy you build, being able to run a build that can nuke someones HP pool without telegraphs is poor design.
We went over this with thieves.
We went over this with Stealthbomb mesmers.
“oh, just predict the invisible attack” didn’t work then.
Why should this be any different?
Of course the DH is a dead target once he spends his utilities, but being able to spend them all to erase an HP pool, even with a half-second window as counterplay, is still bad design. What is it about cruise control builds that gets people so defensive? Your strategy is literally:
a.) Drop traps somewhere that is frequented by enemy
b.) Be nearby to stompThat is almost identical to the turret engie decap build that people tried to declare as an engaging build when it was valid.
except this one is invisible, portable, impervious to dps, and comes with a port so you can literally drop traps on your opponent.
1. It’s “invisible burst” with a delay. If you burn through all of your dodges, then any burst will kill you. If you can’t react to burst within a split second, then any burst will kill you.
2. The issue with Thieves and Mesmers was more than just “invisible damage”. Especially for Mesmer, you have a fair warning that damage is coming your way when you see clones pop/get hit by a daze.
It’s also the amount of damage (free condi damage, anyone?), and escapes they had.
Now a days, you go into a fight invisibly, and get destroyed by AOE & Condi before you even do a single point of damage. So you have to play it a lot safer.
Which, I’m actually kind of fine with. For the most part, anyway. I’d like to see numbers tweaked though.
Now with all of that said.
I’m a fan of making the traps be marks and giving them a small buff.
It still puts pressure down, and it still could be used with your teleport to possibly insta kill people.
Seems reasonable.
But that nerf needs to come hand in hand with the bunker & rev nerfs.
It shouldn’t happen before it, because DH is already in a state of being countered.
Thank you for the advice. Again, play versus a team with brain that coordinate with their DH, you’re destroyed!! Sure every class has their survivability skills, if that’s the case. I don’t want to read complaining about other OP classes (since we can dodge all of them or use our personal surviving skills), because as we all know, there is nothing called stun, immobs, chills, dazes, confusion etc…….
Which is why all the pro players are using DH.
And not running, you know.
3 rev 1 mes 1 tempest.
Or 2 rev 2 mes 1 tempest.
The most organized players in the game, not using DH
Seriously, drop a target on the DH.
He will die in seconds, especially when compared to the bunkers your team is probably focusing.
P.S. This is coming from someone who plays Bunker Mes against revs, because I literally cannot play anything else against them.
Wait a minute?
Is this a revenant having trouble with a DH?
PFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTT, AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!
Ahh…
Jeez dude.
Your class literally fits every role in a team.
Gank, DPS, Bunker, Condition.
All at the same time~!
:-/
learn to dodge traps and your whole life will change.
Isn’t dodging the answer for everything? right?
Play versus DH with brains and sPvP, you will see that you can’t have 10 dodges in 2 seconds.
And yes, I was expecting the answer of “L2P” kind of thing.You know what? just L2dodge and your life would be better….. how about that for an answer?
Surely the class you’re playing has some other means of survivability than just dodging.
The dodging is just a general tid bit. You expect a trap somewhere? Dodge through it.
Also, they literally only have 5 skills you have to worry about.
Dragon’s maw, true shot, judge’s intervention, SoJ, and hunter ward.
Once that’s on CD, they’re done.
They’ve sacrificed their sustain in order to try and kill you as fast as possible.
It’s like shatter mesmer. You can die in the blink of an eye if you’re squishy and not expecting it.
If you’re expecting it, it’s actually relatively simple to dodge both.
Also, pro-tip.
In a team fight, just throw a target onto the DH.
He’ll die before any of his bunker friend’s on the point will.
I would like to keep it if possible, or at least not go back into the worthless zone where thief and warriors seems close to hover.
I cannot agree more.
The frustration of mesmer before, is that in pretty much all game types, you were a utility bot.
Except for 15 v 15 scrims. Mesmer was decent at that in more ways than just veil, in my opinion.
It’s nice to have builds that are more than just utility in PvE & PvP.
Especially PvP.
If you nerf chronomancer’s abilities into the ground to get rid of Chronobunker, you’ll also kill Chronoshatter.
Not that it matters.
Chronoshatter is dead in this meta. There’s way too many conditions, beefy high damage classes (looks at revenant), etc, for Chronoshatter to do decently.
And traditional shatter mes is buried 6 feet under, with a mud slide placed on top, just for good measure.
And even if our shatter builds were viable.
Is it too much to ask to have a build where I’m doing something other than shatter mes?
Because we’ve been doing that forever.
Bunker, despite being OP, is a breath of fresh air.
Let’s look at it this way. Right now a bunker mesmer is the best point holder in the game. What? A light armored class is the best point holder? It is obviously broken.
I’d argue that rev is the best point holder in the game.
But then again, portal.
Now, on topic.
I actually argue that quite a few classes need a total rework.
Revenant’s kit, for instance, is a tough one to balance.
We’re talking about a class that has massive heals, looong blocks, an attacking skill that makes him unhittable for 5 seconds (on a 12 second cooldown). Oh, and a heal with no noticeable visual effect, and no delay, that makes it so attacks heal him for the next 3 seconds rather than do damage.
That kit is going to be hard to balance. It’s going to be easy to make him too weak/too strong.
And that’s not even getting into everything the rev does.
On top of that, a lot of classes just have dead weapons.
Off hand sword on mes? When do you use this thing? A fractal? Maybe?
I feel like nerfs, and refining the kits, is going to be the answer.
The thing that I like most about my mesmer, is that a lot of traits feel like I’m taking them over something close to/equal in power.
Now that’s not saying Bunker mes isn’t OP right now. It is.
Not because it’s a light armored class, and it’s tanking.
I actually really like the fact that the class can do more roles than just “Oh, I shattered on you”.
But it does deserve a look at its kit, and its numbers.
A lot of that (Not all of it) would stop if they would put premades in separate queues.
Which I, and many people, have been arguing for FOREVER.
ANet doesn’t listen. They like to say “Oh we’re focusing on PvP!”, but the one thing that actually makes sense? Lets not do that!
So now, any random scrub could climb the latter, just via having a team of decent players carry them.
And even a random scrub would likely do better over a TS with friends.
Really, the game should only allow up to duo q in the “solo q” mode, and should have a separate team q, which should require 5 players.
Sure, someone with only 3 friends is going to have to find someone to join him.
Oh well.
A few people being a little bit unhappy is better than every solo q player being annoyed by running into premades constantly.
Especially at late hours in NA.
Verbal abuse doesn’t bug me.
Running into a revenant as a shatter mes does.
Which is why I now play bunker mes anytime I see a rev on the other team.
#FightCancerWithCancer
But seriously, just laugh at their absurdity and block them.
But only block them after you link a stack of salt.
Make sure to rub salt in the wound!
Tbh.
Rev, and even my own Mesmer, are probably larger concerns.
When the big patch hits, I’m currently looking for a lot of bunker nerfs, and some tweaking to classes like DH.
Because if there wasn’t a bunker meta, DH would actually be really good.
But with the bunker meta? Nah.
I can just stab + boon share & precog my team through it, if need be.
Not to mention after shock and damage mitigation on Tempest.
1. GG No Re
2. The meta is a “Flavor Of The Month” kind of thing anyway.
It’s also always based off of what the pro players are doing.
Which, if you haven’t noticed, they’re a highly organized team.
So certain things will work better for them, than it does in solo q.
Basically what I’m saying, is that the meta doesn’t matter.
Not for solo q anyway.
On the “Battle of Champions Dusk” stronhold map, a revenant used his sword 3 (Unrelenting Assault) on my mesmer shortly before I went through the gate portal near spawn.
Once the revenant’s 3 was done, he was on the same side of the portal as me.
As a side note, the outer gate was down (This is the portal that goes past the outer gate, not the one on the inner gate).
I believe this is an unintended feature (bug), but I could be wrong.
Would be interesting to test this in WvW and see if it works there, but I don’t have anyone from our enemy servers on my friends list to test it with.
(edited by TheOneWhoSighs.7513)
I think this suffers a bit from not really focusing on 1 target.
You’re a bit all over the place in an attempt to tank/sustain + deal condi damage, but also wanting to use chrono and its shield. While also not providing any real support to your teammates.
You don’t have the capability of bursting one person down, and you’re not providing a whole lot to anyone other than well of precog/gravity well.
My question is, how dedicated are you to that chrono line?
You could swap out Chrono for Chaos, grabing your defensive trait in the first one, the condi damage increase in the second one, and for grand master you could grab bountiful disillusionment.
Then use torch instead. Take null field and decoy. And swap Mental Defense for Temporal Enchanter.
This would make you a pretty powerful bunker, with quite a bit of support for your teammates as well, on top of having stability for yourself on your shatters.
You could also swap out that on kill condition damage buff sigil for something else, not sure what. Perhaps another energy sigil.
Torch also provides pulse fury, which is pretty sweet for your team.
If you don’t like that idea, I’d consider not running condi outside of sigils and switching to a greatsword build instead. Focusing a bit more on damage through a Phantasm build.
My uplevel Mesmer lasts longer in WvW than my Thief. Of casters, my Thief kills primarily Eles and Necros who I managed to throw enough at fast enough they didn’t shroud in time. Ofc, I expect Reapers to just mow me now, tho.
Roaming Mesmers and Rangers, still after the nerf, I would just run from. Players even evidently crumbier than I am could easily take me.
Roaming is dead. Has been for a while.
Hybrid condi-tanks are just too strong. (And yes, I admit, this includes condi-mesmer)
I also expect mesmer to last longer in GvGs than thief.
Thief doesn’t have a good long range option, you’re essentially a suicide squad outside of smoke field.
Mesmer in GvG primarily stays long range, outside of veil (Unless you’re me and you’re running wells. Backline wells mesmer is pretty strong) so you really shouldn’t die.
Unless
1. Your driver screwed up.
2. Your front line screwed up.
3. You screwed up.
I think a fair conversation would be giving the thief better long range options.
Thief’s current options are… pretty bad.
Mesmers are extremely durable, extremely sustainy extremely high burst class with insane amounts of utility the best utility skill in the game with moderate mobility.
So, someone has never played mesmer.
As a mesmer main, let me correct you.
“Mesmers are extremely Durable”
No, no we are not. We are literally the squishiest of the casters.
For instance, we generally don’t carry condi-clear.
Not because we suck at building, but in order to provide the high burst/high utility, we have to sacrifice our own survivability.
“extremely sustainy”
It’s incredibly easy for almost any class that isn’t a bunker, to push you off the point.
In fact, THIEF is great at killing mesmers.
We have no regen, an easily interruptable heal, and all of our sustain utilities have really long cooldowns.
“extremely high burst class with insane amounts of utility the best utility skill in the game with moderate mobility.”
No.
Yes, we have a lot of burst if we build for it, and are able to keep clones up.
But to do that, we sacrifice utility and sustain.
And as far as utility. Portal isn’t that amazing and veil is falling out of favor in WvW.
Because smoke + blast does what veil does better.
So our utility is now Well of Precog and Gravity Well.
In which, to use, we have to sacrifice a whole traitline.
Which means losing either:
Condi-clear
Heals from shatter (For sustain)
More shatter damage
You’re overestimating the abilities of mesmers.
Yes, we have everything you listed, but only if we build SPECIFICALLY for that.
Otherwise, we have to disengage and pick our targets (Just like a thief).
If guilds are supposed to be of major importance in the game, idk what WvW guilds have use for thieves. Then again, idk exactly what I’m really owed here.
My WvW guild has used the smoke fields + blasts from thieves pretty effectively.
More effectively than double veiling anyway.
Outside of that, you sort of just scout/gank the backline when possible.
I’m not sure about condi thief. I don’t think that was ever in a particularly amazing position, so no change there.
But I haven’t had any troubles running thief/daredevil in game.
Which is saying a lot, considering I’m not great at thief.
But staff? Staff thief is amazing.
If you don’t stun lock me, I’m really really hard to kill. And even if you do, I have ways to get out.
Now, you said mesmer has no risks…
Have you played against a thief as a mesmer lately???
The sheer amount of interrupts a thief can put on a mesmer, along with 8k+ damage hits. THERE is your risk.
Granted, it’s not like thief flat out beats mesmer, I’m not saying that at all.
But if the mesmer turns his back to a thief? It’s very easy to end up downed before you could even do anything.
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