Guild Wars 2

ActionRadius.3792:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Bunker mesmer is too mobile for a bunker(imo). The movement speed change is to help deal with that.
Its actual bunkering capabilities, while strong, are weaker than Ele atm, in my opinion.

…

There is no logic here.

…
I’m convinced you haven’t actually played as mesmer.

Considering whats on your list:
“got multiple way to deal with condition, damage, by himself and also support the party, also give strong zoning and CC potential to get kill.”

Conditions? Had multiple ways, for a long time. Inspiration trait line isn’t new. Nor is null field. And your heal well isn’t that strong. From some experience, you usually end up having to pop precog with it, else every one just AOEs on top of it.

Damage?
True.
Protection up time in particular is pretty nasty. I know, everyone complains about distotion & precog, but honestly, those are double edged swords.
Protection on regen (Phantasms give regen, so does dropping to 25% health) as well as on the staff 4 & 5 + 2 (combo field for chaos armor) is a bit much.
Add durability runes in there and… yay!!! More uptime!

Strong zoning?
True. I’d just like to add THAT IT RUNS AROUND THE MAP AT THE SPEED OF A ROAMER, WITH THAT ZONING POTENTIAL.

CC Potential?
True.

Now lets look at what I said.
“Bunker mesmer is too mobile for a bunker(imo). The movement speed change is to help deal with that.
Its actual bunkering capabilities, while strong, are weaker than Ele atm, in my opinion.”

Nothing in that is wrong.

Yes, mesmer has a lot of regens, and a lot of protection uptime. As well as some condi clear, and a small group heal (that comes with some condi clear, if you can actually sit in the well).

Ele has:
1. MASSIVE group heal
2. Long lasting, group wide protection
3. Condi clear on its shout.
4. Group reflects.
5. Decent damage on air overload.
6. Invulnerability to conditions at 90%+ health
7. Group CC
8. Group condi clear
9. Need I even mention how powerful water fields are in this game?

The heals alone, makes ele stronger than chrono bunker, in my honest opinion.

Which isn’t to say chrono bunker is weak, but you wouldn’t take a chrono bunker on your team over a bunker tempest. Hell, you’re more likely to run 2 tempest, 2 rev, 1 chrono.

Hit its mobility, chrono stays a strong bunker, but doesn’t get to do some of the plays that it can currently do.

As an example, I decapped ele points a lot because the ele left his point, and couldn’t make it back quick enough.

I can’t do that to chrono bunker… And it’s not just portal…

Moa is pretty difficult to play with.
It’s why we went mass invis pre-HoT the majority of the time, and why most of them go Gravity Well now.

To speak towards SoloQ damage, even assuming you’re a Chrono Shatter, you, by yourself, do not have enough to kill a moa.

Your team HAS to focus fire it.

Which in my experience, it’s pretty difficult to get pugs to focus fire anything.

As well, it’s really hard to have a team peel for you as a moa, when the enemy team does focus fire you.

So basically, the Moa is a coin flip in YoloQ.

In team play, I’d argue Gravity Well is stronger.

AoE CC vs single target shutdown.

online.1278:

Aren’t anet getting tired from their so many attempts to be esports game but result is always :

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/215497/EEEESPPUUUUURTZ.png

Well hope they get tired of implementing esports stuffs, and stop opening any kinda further more tournament anymore.

It is just my personal hope. i just don’t like esports. And that is why i play mmo instead of moba.

I really don’t understand the toon town thing.
Like, wow. A semi-popular person (with a following developed from previous streams not related to the game), did a steam with toontown in it.

Isn’t the fact that runescape has 6000+ viewers nearly 24/7, in comparison to GW2, much more pathetic?

Oh, wait. It isn’t.
Because by that logic, super mario is worse than Runescape, and who the hell is dumb enough to argue that?

ActionRadius.3792:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

So, you either:
1. Make the chrono bunker slower, making it harder for it to rotate as freely as it does currently.
2. Make the chrono bunker a little bit squishier, making it a little bit easier for it to be killed.

If I were to suggest any other nerf, it would be to remove the protection on regen. But I’d like to see where chrono bunker lands after a small nerf like I suggested.

I still don’t understand why you think that Mesmer have the huge impact of movement speed. Why not just come back to 900 range blink and 300 range trait into a duel?
And why in your opinion only bunker Mesmer need heavily nerf?
The easy way to make this meta multi class – make conquest free for all in the 2000 AOE range.
And disable conquest area holds. So if there is more ppl from one team will be on point – this team will cap or Decap point. This will completely change whole game and meta from bunker to fighter without unnecessary creating more issues.

I main Chrono Shatter (PU Shatter pre-HoT), and have played bunker mesmer post nerf extensively enough to get a decent grasp at what it does in SoloQ.

I can’t speak for bunker mesmer at a competition level, as I am not a competition level player.

Nor can I really speak for eles, necros, guards, rangers, warriors, or revenants.

I primarily play Engie, Mesmer, and Thief. And I feel I have at least a decent grasp of what it’s like to play as, and against each.

However, my thoughts on how to deal with each are different from most people.

Bunker mesmer is too mobile for a bunker(imo). The movement speed change is to help deal with that.
Its actual bunkering capabilities, while strong, are weaker than Ele atm, in my opinion.

So I would like to see the impact of movement speed changes, that benefits base mesmer, and only really impacts bunker mesmer.

Chrono Shatter, taking power creep out of the picture, is actually in position where it could compete in this meta. Were it not for what, in my opinion, is a superior roaming bunker build that does most everything that Chrono Shatter is intended to do.

From there, I think thief actually becomes viable again, as the anti-mesmer class.
The extra dodges give thief a pretty good chance against Chrono Shatter, as the CC well isn’t as likely to hit someone with that many dodges… Nor are you likely to escape as a Chrono Shatter without PU.

PU was one of the better things about Mesmer against thief. You actually had the potential to reset the fight thanks to it and mass invis.

This, in my opinion, makes Chaos a little more competitive with the Chronomancer trait line.

As well, the return of a burst damage class like mesmer could shake things up with Marauder Scrapper.
Who has lower toughness against a burst of damage vs what he would have for long term damage.

This doesn’t “fix” everything, by any means.
But I think small iterative tweaks (Not plain nerfs), would leave the game in a better spot over the course of a couple of months.

Unfortunately, ANet has chosen the “lets do one big kitten patch at the end of a season” route.
Which I’m not sure if I agree with.

Balance is an iterative process. As you nerf 1 thing, it’s possible for another to become noticeably stronger.
If you’re only doing 1 patch per season, then it’s easy for a class to be left unplayable for an entire season, while another class is broken because it no longer has the answer to it anymore.

ActionRadius.3792:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

I’m afraid I don’t understand this response.
Do you care to, idk, actually respond? Rather than saying “I think you have problems.”.

Do you think it’s good design that a chrono bunker can move around the map just as fast as a chrono shatter mesmer??
For free?
Not having sacrifice a single thing, to move just as fast.

The point of a bunker build is to bunk down on a point, not push to far at the same pace a roamer build does, and then prevent the enemy team from ever capping their home node.

Any counter to this suggestion?

Any response as to why the speed isn’t part of the issue, and that it’s just the condi clear? Which honestly isn’t even that much anyway.

I waited a few minutes for you to hopefully edit that in, but it didn’t come.

Fair comment.
Shatter Mesmer now don’t use Staff, and Bunker got it. And it’s solved all movement problems.
Second. Bunker not a roamer, it’s a bunker, making your self bunker – you limited your mobility potential in movement and in target switching.
*In other hand. *
Shatter Mesmer got: portal, blink and decoy.
That helps him escape focus. Instantly move around a map from A to B. He got the target switch mobility, you can instantly use momentum to kill a foe. If you don’t want to use staff you got probably torch – it’s a some kind of second decoy with a good damage on it.
It’s definitely more mobility.

Problem not in mobility of mesmers. You can kill, but probably can’t offer a stomp. Or you can’t kill, but can offer a stomp.

“Shatter Mesmer now don’t use Staff, and Bunker got it. And it’s solved all movement problems.”
That actually just makes bunker even MORE mobile than shatter mesmer, as staff lost its viability for shatter due to the condition changes back in the day.

“Second. Bunker not a roamer, it’s a bunker, making your self bunker – you limited your mobility potential in movement and in target switching.”
A bunker rotating to a point, instantly makes a roamer not bother going there. Unless it’s a druid. As a +1 Chrono Shatter against a druid actually ends very quickly in the Chrono Shatter’s favor. The thing here, is that bunker mesmer is able to roam and keep multiple points contended through its movement speed & its portal. Where as, without that movement speed, once portal is down it would be riskier to leave its point and help out mid/home (if its already in mid). Leaving room for a roamer to get a decap.

“Problem not in mobility of mesmers. You can kill, but probably can’t offer a stomp. Or you can’t kill, but can offer a stomp.”
Distortion means you can usually do both. Portal stomp as well.

The change I suggested would make bunker mesmer slower (Making portal a little less valuable, as it’s not going to rotate as quickly), leave Chrono Shatter in the same position that it’s already in, and would buff normal mesmer slightly (You seriously have to run travelers, or you’re literally useless, even before HoT).

Now, why would portal be less valuable for chrono bunker?
Well its simple, if you know a mesmer can’t run back to its point very fast, then the moment you see it leaving home, you can plan to rush over there, and force the port back home/prevent capping for a bit. You can actually have one of your bunkers rotate to their home node if the mesmer chooses to walk back and give up the cap (Something he’s very unlikely to do), and then you as a roamer rotate appropriately from there.

Ofc, that’s all moot if chrono bunker swaps rune of durability for travelers.

What do they lose without rune of durability?
Some toughness, and protection + resistance up time. Which frankly, any hit to that on a bunker should be welcome at this point.

So, you either:
1. Make the chrono bunker slower, making it harder for it to rotate as freely as it does currently.
2. Make the chrono bunker a little bit squishier, making it a little bit easier for it to be killed.

If I were to suggest any other nerf, it would be to remove the protection on regen. But I’d like to see where chrono bunker lands after a small nerf like I suggested.

ActionRadius.3792:

LastHope.8127:

`Yes, but you said no sustain. I out sustain eles and bunker mesmers with druid lol.

<some problems with condition application, and sustain>

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

The only new way we got was the heal well.
Which isn’t that great if it’s a power build slamming into your face.

The biggest caveat to bunker mesmer, is that it doesn’t have to take travelers runes (As the movespeed buff is a minor trait for chrono), and it has portal.

I think you have problems. But it’s not meant that everyone has that problem.

I’m afraid I don’t understand this response.
Do you care to, idk, actually respond? Rather than saying “I think you have problems.”.

Do you think it’s good design that a chrono bunker can move around the map just as fast as a chrono shatter mesmer??
For free?
Not having sacrifice a single thing, to move just as fast.

The point of a bunker build is to bunk down on a point, not push to far at the same pace a roamer build does, and then prevent the enemy team from ever capping their home node.

Any counter to this suggestion?

Any response as to why the speed isn’t part of the issue, and that it’s just the condi clear? Which honestly isn’t even that much anyway.

I waited a few minutes for you to hopefully edit that in, but it didn’t come.

Velimere.7685:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

“Mesmer – got multiple way to deal with condition, damage, by himself and also support the party, also give strong zoning and CC potential to get kill.”

Mesmer has had multiple ways to deal with conditions. The only new way we got was the heal well.
Which isn’t that great if it’s a power build slamming into your face.

The biggest caveat to bunker mesmer, is that it doesn’t have to take travelers runes (As the movespeed buff is a minor trait for chrono), and it has portal.

Put the move speed buff on the domination trait line.

That would actually be a small swing at chrono bunker, no effect on chrono shatter, and a small buff for normal mesmer.

Chrono Bunker would have to ask whether it wants to move as slow as an epileptic turtle, or swap out durability runes for travelers.

Or, would it want to swap one of its necessary trait lines for domination?

You’ll note, I didn’t suggest dueling.

Dueling would be pretty powerful for a mixed burst/bunker mesmer, and would make its heals bigger. So swapping say, chaos for dueling, wouldn’t be a horrible deal. You lose some stab and boons, but gain 25% movement speed, dodge clones, and blinds.

Thus, I suggested domination to make it a much harder choice. Domination isn’t as good unless it’s paired with dueling.

That’s never gonna happen.

So, no criticism of the actual suggestion.
Just more ANet hatred I assume?

Don’t waste your breath, play a different game.

“Mesmer – got multiple way to deal with condition, damage, by himself and also support the party, also give strong zoning and CC potential to get kill.”

Mesmer has had multiple ways to deal with conditions. The only new way we got was the heal well.
Which isn’t that great if it’s a power build slamming into your face.

The biggest caveat to bunker mesmer, is that it doesn’t have to take travelers runes (As the movespeed buff is a minor trait for chrono), and it has portal.

Put the move speed buff on the domination trait line.

That would actually be a small swing at chrono bunker, no effect on chrono shatter, and a small buff for normal mesmer.

Chrono Bunker would have to ask whether it wants to move as slow as an epileptic turtle, or swap out durability runes for travelers.

Or, would it want to swap one of its necessary trait lines for domination?

You’ll note, I didn’t suggest dueling.

Dueling would be pretty powerful for a mixed burst/bunker mesmer, and would make its heals bigger. So swapping say, chaos for dueling, wouldn’t be a horrible deal. You lose some stab and boons, but gain 25% movement speed, dodge clones, and blinds.

Thus, I suggested domination to make it a much harder choice. Domination isn’t as good unless it’s paired with dueling.

Pimsley.3681:

Blaming others feels good because it gets the burden of responsibility off our shoulders.

Besides, we are perfect little creatures and it’s never our fault. Right?

However if we want to progress in this game (and in life), we need the help and cooperation of others. Often, blaming them is counter-productive. A better alternative is to teach those who are receptive to advice. Doing so will slowly improve the enjoyment everyone gets out of the game.

Your post reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjI0ilcMNTM

Someone else posted that before. It’s fricken hilarious.

Agemnon.4608:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

1. No
2. kitten nodes, replace them with a flag you have to channel fully in order to flip. Figure out a healthy balance for the time it takes to channel. That opens up the whole area around where a node would be to fight. Traps and AoE still have their meaning to stop/kill someone trying to channel it, but it would be easier to deny a cap without needing to sit in AoE.
Although, that could easily make bunkers even stronger. So you’d have to consider the actual balance of classes first.
3. Temple is one of the better maps. I actually choose it and foefire the vast majority of the time.
LOS is healthy for the game.

Also, I hit people on the side nodes all the time with the treb on Khylo.
Then again, I used to play primarily WvW (Waiting for fixes to that, and then I’ll say F PvP). So that shouldn’t come as a surprise. 1 practice shot in the general direction, and you can generally figure out where your power and angle need to be to hit the node.

1.Yes. It is player vs. player.

2.Okay, I’ll concede that. Channeling is better for node flipping. All changes should take balance into consideration. Just switch some AoE radii, cooldowns, distance abilities can travel, and even power.

3.I understand that LoS is healthy but there’s just too much of it in Temple. So many people run around confused and there’s so much risk of falling down stuff. Environmental factors are way too important in Temple. Could even be a fine map if you remove tranquility and make it have more space.

1. The NPCs add variety and a way to come back. Something that’s needed in a game where things snowball very quickly.
Nobody likes heavy snowballing, which is why games like LoL, smite, etc put focus on testing and reducing the snowball effect.

3a. Temple is fine. Kiting and LoS is a skill. Temple doesn’t suddenly make it OP or “add too much of it”. There’s pretty much only one place where you can really kite people around, and that’s those bridges at mid point. As well as that gap that’s between them, that I like to jump over and get away from people with.
Everywhere else on temple is actually relatively flat, and it’s easier to get yourself stuck CC’d in a corner than it is to escape someone in those places.
Those couple of places in mid where a blink/shortbow 5 (thief) can manage to escape some people, aren’t that big of a deal.

3b. "So many people run around confused and there’s so much risk of falling down stuff. " That’s a learn to play issue. I know a lot of people say that about a lot of things. But seriously, that’s a learn to play issue.
The map is relatively small, it just actually uses the third dimension to give you a few extra places to possibly escape players.

1. No
2. kitten nodes, replace them with a flag you have to channel fully in order to flip. Figure out a healthy balance for the time it takes to channel. That opens up the whole area around where a node would be to fight. Traps and AoE still have their meaning to stop/kill someone trying to channel it, but it would be easier to deny a cap without needing to sit in AoE.
Although, that could easily make bunkers even stronger. So you’d have to consider the actual balance of classes first.
3. Temple is one of the better maps. I actually choose it and foefire the vast majority of the time.
LOS is healthy for the game.

Also, I hit people on the side nodes all the time with the treb on Khylo.
Then again, I used to play primarily WvW (Waiting for fixes to that, and then I’ll say F PvP). So that shouldn’t come as a surprise. 1 practice shot in the general direction, and you can generally figure out where your power and angle need to be to hit the node.

abc.5790:

Ok so, if the team doesnt have a bunker, what would the role of the thief be?

You could run a condi thief setup, that has some survivability, and decent 1v1 against a lot of the roaming classes.

Or you could continue running your roaming burst build, under the assumption that you can 1v1 the enemies roamer, and out rotate them.

Which isn’t a terrible assumption.

Daredevil burst thief vs a Chrono Shatter mesmer, isn’t a guaranteed win for either side.

Gravity well certainly gives the mesmer an edge if you’re caught in it.
But you have 3 dodge rolls, don’t get caught in it.

My suggestion is to roam out during the pregame, and see if you can’t tell what the enemy is running build wise. See a greatsword or a torch on a mesmer? You can pretty much assume it’s a shatter mesmer. And build accordingly.

Condi Daredevil thief, in my opinion, can shut down shatter mesmer completely 1v1. So if you need to hold a point, you’d go for that.

Other wise, go for burst, have someone else hold the point, and +1 on that mesmer if he roams far.

Nova Stiker.8396:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

It’s 12am in America and 6am in britain.

Get some kittening sleep m8!
Like that 1 guy who was streaming toontown and actually had a viewship.

It’s freaking Toontown, it shouldn’t matter what time it is. The game with better gameplay, sound, story, visuals, multiplayer, heck, better in every single aspect, is being beaten by Toontown.

I love Guild Wars 2 but the developers don’t understand how bad things are right now.

The majority of this game’s demographic, are located in the places I just mentioned. And the majority of this game’s players, have other kitten to do today.

Including me, about to sleep myself.

TT geting a one off, random twitch channel, that I didn’t even get to see who it was, it literally could’ve been one of the more popular twitch channels doing a random stream about it and never playing it again, is not a big deal.

It’s not a sign of the end times, lol.

It’s 12am in America and 6am in britain.

Get some kittening sleep m8!
Like that 1 guy who was streaming toontown and actually had a viewship.

Ehhh.
Chrono Shatter.

Revs that are playing condition mallyx don’t bug me anymore on Chrono. Force them to mallyx, and kill them.

I just ignore the eles and kill their teammates. Rotations ftw.

And yeah, zerker is dead.

Frankly, it was dead before HoT.

Run marauders.

I generally call it a day after 3 losses in a row.
Could mean the q is full of kittenty players.
Could mean I’m playing like kitten.

Either way, a break is a good idea.

Shockwave.1230:

For some context, I’ve been away from the game for a bit primarily because the meta is just so uninteresting.

I figure maybe something has happened and people have been able to adjust to the meta and jump on for 3 games.

But no, nothing has changed, which I thought was probably the case, but wanted to try to play some anyways.

I’m assuming thief and warrior are still clear bottom tier in the current meta based on what I experienced.

How is 3 reapers not different? (And a lot of DH stacking)
Weren’t those literally kicked out of the meta not too long ago by bunker mesmer & condi rev?
Nerfs seemed to have done some good.

Unless by a “bit” you mean a month or so ago.

Shockwave.1230:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Shockwave.1230:

Hi Anet,

I need you to do one of two things. Factor team composition into your matchmaking or balance your game.

That is all.

So how do you want them to factor that in?

If they see a mesmer, should it be assumed that it’s bunker, or chrono shatter? Or maybe even condi?

If they see a thief, should they make the win ratio 0%? Even if it’s Caed?

I can go on, but there’s no chance of that happening unless they kill build variety entirely.

Or make a system where someone could say “I’m doing X”. But… I’ve played the games that had that, and they sucked just as much, if not more.

I don’t really care how they factor it in. I don’t like that I can count the number of mes/ele/rev on each team and then am able to guess which team will win most of the time.

Edit
Also in what world is it okay to pit 3 condi reapers against 2 eles?

In a world in which the majority of the queue for your division is condi reapers and eles. That world.

ANets algorithm probably takes class stacking into account, but at some point you have to give that up in preference for MMR & q times.

Shockwave.1230:

Hi Anet,

I need you to do one of two things. Factor team composition into your matchmaking or balance your game.

That is all.

So how do you want them to factor that in?

If they see a mesmer, should it be assumed that it’s bunker, or chrono shatter? Or maybe even condi?

If they see a thief, should they make the win ratio 0%? Even if it’s Caed?

I can go on, but there’s no chance of that happening unless they kill build variety entirely.

Or make a system where someone could say “I’m doing X”. But… I’ve played the games that had that, and they sucked just as much, if not more.

apharma.3741:

If you’re stupid good you can kite them till they’re either out of LF or have used and left shroud, then burst.

Most of the time you will probably die though if full condi without the inspiration line, Dom, duelling and inspiration would be a good idea but you won’t have chrono and sadly the other two are essential for power shatter.

From experience. If you can’t kite and dodge-out the condi burst from reaper, the few cleanses from inspiration won’t save you.

Swapping portal for null field might save you, if you use it well.

Uhmm.
Should’ve recorded a video and put it on the bug forums..

kittens being kittens. Just block them and play what you play.

Don’t fight up close, kite them, take the high ground advantage, dodge the shiro bullkitten, force them to mallyx, win the fight.

Edit:
Ahh, sorry. I read revenant since that’s what most people complain about.

Reaper…
My advice is pretty much the same. Don’t fight up close until you can kill them, kite them around, and take any high ground you can get.

Don’t bother with CC’ing them in shroud, unless you can pop through their initial layer of stab.
Which goes to the next point WATCH THEIR BOONS

StickerHappy.8052:

IDEAL ELITE BALANCING

• Bring core classes to be on par with elite specs by revamping the core class, fixing bugs, and making some reasonable buffs or tweaks

ANET’S ELITE BALANCING

• Nerf all elite specs because it is less work for them.

Are we forgetting that the core spec is part of the problem?

And that everyone has been complaining about power creep for years?

The elite specs just help push the core specs over the edge of useless, to suddenly OP.

Tempest has crazy heals & protection, which keeps diamond skin up.

Mesmer has alacrity, which brings the already short CD mind wrack off cooldown much faster, bringing with it a small heal, stability, condi removal, and some other boons.

On top of massive CC, which normally wouldn’t be a problem as you could interrupt the well cast, but bunker mes runs stability… on a skill that effectively has an 8 second cooldown.

Bringing the core specs up to par would be more power creep. Which again, we’ve all been complaining about for a long time.

MyPuppy.8970:

There’s this underwater area in hotm, never noticed it before so i don’t know how long it’s been open. There’s underwater golem dummies there, so maybe an underwater map soon?

Don’t count on it.
Underwater combat has been broken for a looooong time.

Them suddenly fixing it is unlikely.

DeltaZero.6310:

I agree there are classes like warrior and thief that are suffering from this meta where multihit aoe attacks do more damage than single hit attacks and where clipping a condi can end up doing more damage than getting cleaved in melee range.
But while I am sure that will be sorted out soon enough, I was just hoping for build variety sake if core specs would get some love.
Pretty sure like zinkz said another batch of elite specs will come out soon enough but until then it pretty such seems like we really only have the choice of 2 traitlines since elite traitlines are so mandatory for majority of classes.
But the idea of buffing a single traitline if you don’t go down an elite spec, “since in an essence an elite spec is a buffed core spec in a way” would make core builds viable again and thus matchup will feel more diverse again…once bunker is out of the way of course

“matchup will feel more diverse again”

You see, you lost me at “again”.

The game has, for a very long time, had 4-5 meta builds that pretty much everyone runs & complains about.

Diversity wasn’t really there.

Where as now, despite the complaining, every class except warrior has a moderately viable build. A lot even have multiple…

yes, that includes thief. I know, QQ. I’ve played some matches with it, it really isn’t that bad

Compare that to pre-HoT.
Nearly every mesmer you would run into in PvP, would be a shatter mesmer. Outside of the odd condi mesmer here and there. We actually have a bunker spec now? I mean, wow. Never expected that. We had a traitline that WAS NEVER USED before.
Nearly every thief ran the same D/P build, where as now I’ve seen a lot more high evasion condi builds.
Every guardian would play medi dps. Without fail, without question.
Rangers were not viable, and were really easy to kill. Hilariously, with druid, that’s only vaguely changed. Despite the QQ about druid.
Engineer was just double kit engie back in the day, and hell. Double kit still works. Scrapper didn’t change that.
Necro has multiple builds that work now. VS that one condi build that kinda sorta worked back in the day, maybe.
Warrior has CC? I mean, that’s all I’ve got. They’ve got 1 gravity well worth of CC! Too bad I can drop 2 of them?

Ofc, if we’re talking about the highest end of the game. Yeah, there’s a meta there. You’ll cookie cut yourself into it.

But seriously, how many of you are at that level?
How many of you even want to be at that level?

It’s so much more fun just to play the game with what you feel comfortable with. And I do pretty freaking well on what I feel comfortable with.

Chip Skylark.2367:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Chip Skylark.2367:

The main pvp devs left anet didn’t they? It’s really noticeable. Time to find a new MMO boyz.

Good luck. Unless you like typical Korean MMORPGs or what they’ve done with Elder Scrolls Online, you’re kind of screwed.

Which, all in all ESO is kind of fun now a days, since they fixed a lot of the problems they had at launch. Been playing it off and on.

B&S doesn’t look too horrible I guess.

Waiting for Black Dez mainly, looks awesome.

B&S looks horrible. The grind, the combat, everything.
It’s a typical Korean MMORPG, made by NCSoft no less.

If you’ve lost faith in ANet, I have no clue why you’d have any faith in the guys over them.
Clearly you’d think upper management would be incompetent as well. But maybe I’m weird.

Black Desert…
I don’t feel like repeating myself, but I will.

it’s a typical korean mmorpg

I would get about as hyped for it as I did for ArcheAge, such as to say, not at all.

It’s always odd seeing people get hyped about models that never work out in America.

Yup.

In this case, you have to punish the guilty.

And since there isn’t a good way to discern innocents from the guilty they get in trouble too.

Either way, it’s a game.
Use the dishonored time to do something productive that isn’t a game.

Chip Skylark.2367:

The main pvp devs left anet didn’t they? It’s really noticeable. Time to find a new MMO boyz.

Good luck. Unless you like typical Korean MMORPGs or what they’ve done with Elder Scrolls Online, you’re kind of screwed.

Which, all in all ESO is kind of fun now a days, since they fixed a lot of the problems they had at launch. Been playing it off and on.

The game can’t tell whether you disconnected because of a server/ISP issue, or whether you decided to be a kitten and leave.

So yeah, it punished you for it.
It should punish people for it.

Unfortunately, that means some people who are at no fault of their own, will be punished for it.

It’s the name of the game.

You can totally carry a game.
If I go +1 fights, and out rotate the enemy team doing quick decaps and preventing decapping of our points, is that not carrying?

Sure, I’m not alone.
Obviously the teammates I have, have to do something for us to win.

But lets say you have 4 reasonably close in skill level players on both teams.

What of you, and the last guy on their team?

Are you guys close in skill? Are you noticeably better than him?

It’s totally possible to carry matches by being a better player than the rest in your team.

However, I will concede that a lot of matches are just unwinnable, and the system knows that.

The fact that 0-19% win chance is even on the chart for deciding whether you lose pips or not, is proof enough of that.

lucadiro.4519:

Glenstorm.4059:

If bunkers disappeared tomorrow, burst Eles would still be kept out of the meta by Mesmers and Thieves, no?

Mesmers surely will be more usefull with portal, and thief will always have a superior mobility. But even in marauder amulet, taking tenpest means you can aura healing for a good amount. It can be worth or not to have a tempest in team, who know.
Who know if bunker will disappear, if thief or shatter mesemer will still be in meta with all those viper revenant around

Can’t speak for thief.

But as a shatter mesmer once you’ve forced a rev off shiro(into mallyx), they’re done.

Frankly, it’s the glint/shiro builds that I’m more worried about.

And reapers.
Reapers aren’t unbeatable by any means, but they’re not my most comfortable match up.

Hilariously, Druids are my most comfortable match up.

“Ele still can’t play a burst role in pvp/wvw after 4 years”
Fresh air / straight to the heart anyone? That was your PvP burst role. It was actually pretty strong, but D/D cele ele was its hard counter.

Burst classes have no real role in WvW (Outside of roaming, which I’d argue condi roamers were actually better), only in 15 man GvG. And ele doesn’t fit that role, because stealth is very important for gank.

Stealth on an ele? That would be disgusting.

Otherwise, zerker staff ele has been the WvW thing since, ever? Yeah, I think ever.
Meteor shower kittening destroys noobs.

“turret engi” was a mindless build that deserved the nerf it got.
Just because we have new and improved mindless builds 2.0, doesn’t magically mean turret engi wasn’t a skill-less over-rewarding build.

And man, you have to love the negativity that emanates from everyone on this forum 24/7.

balance isn’t an easy straight forward topic, and you guys genuinely don’t agree with each other on what should happen, or whether a change was even beneficial or not

I got 850k once running ChronoShatter.

Which is very unusual, since it’s usually only around 250-400k

I’m by no means a pro player, but I’d like to see another resource pool that limits what you can do in a short amount of time.

You could have all of these cool skills on lower cooldowns, if it were costly to use them in some other way.

cough mana cough

As it is now, I’ve always felt like the game was a bit too straightforward.

But idk, maybe that’s the traditional RPG player in me talking.

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

In agreement with OP.

Prime example:
5 man DH premade and play stronghold. You’d actually have to try to lose, to actually lose. Just ran it with some of friends of mine…. it was more entertaining then anything else. So much rage from our enemy. Get ready for some “nerf DH” threads because of us.

Is that more OP than 2 tempests healing all minions & preventing the use of the trebuchet?

I kind out doubt it, seeing as I can usually 1 v 1 a DH running ChronoShatter, and I feel like bunker builds would just kind of laugh in your face.

Ithilwen.1529:

@TOWS I wasn’t being a troll I was answering a post. Truthfully though.. I don’t place a high value on your opinion either. You consistently attack me. So, please do stay away from my posts. That would suit me fine.

“You consistently attack me”

Says the guy who’s first response directed at me contained:
“Sorry, learn to play.”

And that’s how I met your moth… errr. I mean, that’s how we’ve gotten to where we are now!

Where the disagreement was “No I can’t simply pop distortion, or rather that’d be stupid”.

And then we go through 3 posts to get to “well I guess I could”.

And then we drag onto “I’m still right, CS doesn’t recharge shatters!”

Which is only “correct” if you shatter before you do CS.
Which is true of every instant cast skill.

Won’t say every skill, because again, gravity well mid-cast CS is legit for insta-killing rangers when +1ing.

sigh

Ithilwen.1529:

Don’t try to trump up an argument with unattainable 100% alacrity uptime and then go back on it. You didn’t give theoretical maximums you used hyperbole to support an untenable argument.

And again.. what I said was correct, CS does not recharge shatters.

You didn’t estimate 50%, own up… you tried to make claims based on unattainable 100% alacrity uptime.

I find your faux reasonableness disingenuous. Talk to me, not the crowd. Why do you feel the need to use false arguments and propaganda to support nerfing a class that just received a heavy nerf rather than learn to play?

ps I still defy you to show me where I have used a strawman argument.

Wow.
I’ve only seen someone as disingenuous as you be a troll.

So from this point forward, I’m going to assume (hope) you are one, and not waste my time on you.

Highlie.7641:

It’s there own fault kdaddy, If they didn’t grind so much when the leagues started, they wouldn’t of been legend/diamond, which means faster match making.

But then they’d just be farming lowbies until legend anyway.

Which would kitten off just as many people.

“Oh, I got matched up against a premade of The Abjured as an amber player. That’s kittening fan-kittening-tastic.”

There’s only 1 stronghold map?

Do you expect that to be enough to hold a whole league on? Because I don’t.

I’m not disagreeing with you that it should be separate.
But at the same time, do realize they haven’t put in enough effort for it to be separate.

They’d have to make at least 2-3 more maps.

Kane.6549:

Hahaha, I disagree in complete sincerity. Yes, some classes are easier than others to spam skills and have it actually DO things (aka chronomancer/guardian), but to play effectively you have to be skilled. You wont see NEW mesmers using double elites and actually landing it except maybe once in a blue moon. They forget how. They’re spamming.

You WILL see new guardians cc-spamming, but they don’t recognize things like reflects or stability, so it can be easy to trap-bait and reflect their true shot and make them hurt themselves.

The more map and class aware you are the easier it is to spot new players and bait them out of proper gameplay and rotations, thereby making your team more effective.

The two classes that used to be the easiest to play became the hardest. Thief and warrior were overpowered. Now they take incredible demands of skill to play correctly, but when played correctly they can be insanely effective.

Two classes became the most beginner friendly. Two classes became elite only. The rest are fairly skill gated.

One of the biggest problems we’re seeing is laziness. People are looking up meta builds instead of finding their own, and raging about how unfair the game is because they aren’t facerolling people out of the box.

The game is broken because my team should have won but didn’t.

I did well but still lost.

You have to talk. You have to plan. You have to instruct, you have to listen. If you are soloqing and raging about the game because you’re losing, I have only one response:

You did this to yourself.

Thieves were easy to play?

Thieves had to do exactly what they have to do now.
+1 fights, decap far, and kill the enemy team’s roamer.

Which wasn’t easy.
Thief vs Shatter Mesmer for instance? This fight was a toss up based entirely on skill. And whether the thief went panic strike, BUT THAT’S NOT THE POINT!

Thieves were never “easy to play”.

Easier than what they have to do now? Sure. But easiest to play back in the day? Non-sense.

AirWick.1769:

kdaddy.5431:

some people are gonna lose and other will win, showing losses and wins doesnt mean the system is broken. Just means its not very fun.

The system isnt broken. Clearly it is optimally functional to some degree but, it simply doesnt work with all these pve heroes and braindead pvpers that dont know how to conquest. That are only in PvP cause of some item labeled LEGENDARY BACK PIECE. I had to fight hard for majority of my solo q matches to the point I had to carry the game cause, of these types of idiots. The ones where I didn’t have to play seriously, I could clearly see how lame my pve hero opponents and braindead pvp opponents were. Doing terrible rotations like some of my allies during my matches.

The saddest part about all this is the bad players I carried. I wish those matches I could throw on purpose cause, they don’t deserve to climb being complete garbage like that. This system needs a matchmaking that can tell the difference between skilled players and these deadweights. To set up matches that allows skilled players to clash with other skilled players and make it so, that these less skilled players are only against opponents of their own tier. That way these bad players are not getting carried by matches that are clearly out of their skill range. That they could not possibly reach as an individual player without learning how to conquest. Of course though a system like that would take a miracle if anet can do miracles.

If they could just drop divisions, that would pretty much solve the issue.

They’d only be able to be carried so far, before they’d fall all the way down to where they belong.
Generally, anyway.

Experience with other systems tells me that if they reach some very high level of play rating, they’ll actually stabilize around that area regardless of their skill level. (In a team game, anyway. 1 v 1 they’d drop like hotcakes.)

But… There’s nothing you can really do about that, other than “testing” players regularly.

Which brings us to our next topic…
“testing”.

It’s literally THE most annoying thing, to be matched with players that don’t know anything, and to be matched against players who are better than you, at the same time.

And this happens… A lot…

This is likely to help deal with the issue I was talking about. The “stabilizing”.

The only solution I can think of, is to add an individual player rating system, with its own scaling on accuracy per player.

Players score other players based on their performance at the end of a match. Maybe gain a few extra rank points for doing it.

And the system compares the performance evaluations you gave, to ones given by other players.
And adjusts each according to “accuracy”.

Idk.
I just don’t like how ANet’s getting kitten for match making attaching newbs onto everyone, when every system has that problem.

Now if we want to kitten on ANet for not splitting the Qs, that’s a different conversation.

kdaddy.5431:

Nick.7621:

kdaddy.5431:

Morwath.9817:

kdaddy.5431:

If this was true then people wouldnt complain about facing premades and certain players wouldnt be so dominate even solo queing.

Huh?
Premades often doesn’t win because they are better skill wise, but because often they have:
a) better team composition (moar meta)
b) experience of playing together
c) voice communcation
…those things doesn’t make premades better skill wise, yet they let them win more than they deserve.

say what you want but this game does have a skill level and there is a understanding of which you need to have to be successful. Also if i say grab the best players you know and you and ask you can you beat the 8 esl teams from your server? If you can say yeah we can ill say your right sir this game takes no skill. If you say you cant then this game takes skill.

You can say this game takes less skill then it did before HOT, you can say it takes less skill and compare it to something else but saying it doesnt take skill/understanding/ the things you suggest since they are excuses some times and legitimate reasons the other to play the game is asinine.

Not to be an kitten but in higher tier MMR you’ll be facing much more competent players and warriors are non-existent simply because they lack the utilities to exist in high tier sPvP. For example: when I was Qing with my team in ranked we faced former ESL team Radioactive back to back and they swapped their warrior out (who is probably one of the best in NA even before HoT). High tier sPvP is simply bout maintaining two points or to just completely out-rotate your opponents, mechanical skill is pretty much non-existent due to the amount of bunker there and low skill cap these meta builds have.

you mean you will face people like caed? If you wish to continue please go ahead

I like how he’s queue’d with a Division 1.

cough

Ross Biddle.2367:

WereFox.4019:

sorry to post 3 picture i dont care anymore about the rule in the forums im just mad . No Gun Em down i dont care about mmr , im just playing for fun and getting diamond but its impossible for me.
I dont know what should i do……
Im gonna try venom share Ross :P

Here you go

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAqaVn8lCFNhNNBGmCsPhFZCjLQ1D2BzdwQYKUbPNFCAA-TZxBQBGc/hldKAAwDAwLlBwwRAAA

Don’t expect to carry, but you’ll certainly make strong team mates stronger XD

Stick to team fights and decapping and you should be boss.

Venomshare is one of those secret OP things that only T1 WvW guilds do.

Don’t go giving away their secrets!

(Btw, venomshare works with necro wells. And necro wells are unblockable. So if you really want someone to die You know what to do.)

Pimsley.3681:

I personally get discouraged when teammates hp drop to red and then black in a matter of seconds.

So don’t bring ChronoShatter, got it.

Just play unranked and have fun.

I’ve run into some absolutely amazing thieves that rekt me 1 v 1 in unranked games.

And a LOT of build variety.

My only complaint about unranked is that a lot of people play DH in it. And regardless of dodging out of traps, they’re still pretty annoying.

Eh.
Tbh that doesn’t bother me nearly as much as going to +1 a fight, and then the teammate I was helping literally runs away… and leaves me in a 1v1…

Like… Thanks? I guess?

Or when we just downed a guy 2 v 2, and I’m like “Okay, lets 2 v 1 that last scrub”

And again, guy just leaves.

The guy leaving would make sense if I were the bunker & he was the roamer.

But no…

Literally the opposite…

The really annoying thing is, that it’s when I get on a win streak that I start running into people like this.

And then it also feels like my enemies are next level players for their respective classes, in the same match…

Idk… I need to go 1v1 more people in our guild hall and get good I guess.

dank.3680:

Many have hit diamond across the playerbase, sure. Have a look at how many diamonds are on your screen there..

I think I see 1 in the first image by the trading post.
Can anyone else confirm?

Edit:

First image of his second post

SamTheGuardian.2938:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

So if I’m understanding this right.
Weren’t you the one who made a thread that everyone was just going to stack Rev, Druid, and Tempest?

And now you’re mad that someone stacked reapers and DHs?

At any rate, were the 3 Reapers on a team together? If so, the only thing they can do about that is, well. Nothing in your case. Because pretty much everyone agrees trio-queue should be forced into “Team Queue”.

To your original question, No. That wasn’t me. To your second question: The 3 Reapers and 2 Dragon Hunters were all solo queued together. The match making algorithm put both teams together. This was the whole point of referencing the ANet article on matchmaking.

Fair enough.

I wonder if there was just a crap ton of reapers Q’ing at that time, around your MMR, and the match making system chose whatever it could.

shrug

Since I have free time I might play around with that idea.

Sorel.4870:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

But over committing to far, and then blaming the team for losing 3 v 3 mid when you could have +1’d, is kind of your fault.

It depends on what you call over commiting. Figthting on a capped point or in a clearly bad match-up is over commiting, but if you’re a scrapper holding a tempest there for an infinite time (or even killing him), you’re helping your team a great deal. It’s your team’s fault if they can’t win a 4v4 mid (after your home capper has arrived).

Yeah, that’s why I later edited in a note to clarify what I mean.
"
But only kind of.
And I say that because there’s a lot of context that is potentially missing there, that could change my opinion quite easily, depending on how things progressed."

There are a lot of contexts in which what I’ve said is invalid, you might be helping your team more than +1ing.

Although, on the same note about the tempest.
Would the tempest have stayed on his home node had you +1’d mid? And would +1’ing turn the fight around in mid? (I.E. are you a class that can actually do anything by rotating?)

If the answer to both is yes, then giving up their far cap for mid and your home, is probably preferred.