Guild Wars 2

No, the game has too much CC.
Period.
The amount of pulls, stuns, immobs, and dazes in this game is absolutely ridiculous right now.

If you aren’t on point with your defensive skills in, lets say WvW, you’re dead in 0.1 femtoseconds.

Which is made even worse with some of the path finding in the hilly areas. Can’t count the number of times I failed to blink despite the little circle being green, and me being able to literally walk (never jump) to the spot I’m pointing at.

More CC is just more power creep.

Glacial.9516:

Um. What? Did we read the same thing?

The quote from Dulfy about the change:
“Alacrity caused too much overall damage increase. Basically you had a mesmer or you had 66% damage loss. We didn’t want to reduce the amount of alacrity as you can just bring more mesmers to bridge the gap. We brought alacrity brought down from 66% to 33% so it is not useless. "

I’m not arguing that the numbers used in the statement are accurate but Alacrity was deemed too strong: “You had a mesmer or you had 66% damage loss.”

One option (clearly entertained by the devs, as the bold sentence indicates) is that lowering the duration/availability of Alacrity would help, but could result in Raids taking 2 (or more) Mesmers to counter that and keep 100% uptime.

You’re right, the dps loss of having multiple Chronos/Mesmers might outweigh the boost of 100% Alacrity/Quickness uptime. Players would soon determine that for themselves. If they had so determined that 2 Chronos is better than 1 (or none, after the hypothetical nerf) we’d find ourselves in the situation I described with 2 Mesmers + 8 Raid Members. And with Chronos and their Alacrity being even more ‘in demand’ (needing 2 per Raid instead of 1). I’d fear for more nerfs in this situation.

There is no “might outweigh the boost of 100% alacrity/quickness uptime”.

No, it WOULD outweigh it.

We have kitten for sustained damage.

Daishi.6027:

I’m still on board with getting bunkers out the door based on the game types for pvp… Not that this patch will actually accomplish that outside of a few specs.

However ultimately and selfishly I just want shatter to be viable and on par with thief.

Am I asking to much?

I’m not cool with getting rid of bunkers.

I’m cool with bringing them on par with other builds. Making it to where they are what they are, a tank. That brings little else to the field.

Why anyone would praise killing build variety, is beyond me.

Like, we’ve been kittening for eons about lacking build variety, so the answer? Kill more builds.

And ANet has been doing that since launch. Step by step, killing builds.

Because that’s the answer.

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it now.

A game where everyone dies in 0.1 seconds is no more fun than a game where no one dies

Coronit.9432:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Coronit.9432:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Coronit.9432:

Rome.7124:

see this thread about Basilisk venom being unblockable and each thief can share it with all the team mates:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/unblockable-bassy-venom/first#post5923105

What’s the point of playing Mesmer again? ANet really want Mesmer to be out of the meta…

Before you embarrass yourself. To share that venom it has to be traited. Then that trait is a grandmaster in shadow-arts, so you have to choose between that trait and shadow-rejuvination, a trait that is stronger and was at least used in competitive pvp (or even normal) before. If I´m correct a normal shattermesmer would have one block (2 if something got blocked) in form of the shield. Saying that this unblockable venom (charges vanish with every missed attack) defines the end of mesmer is a bit overreacting, don´t you think?

Shield block is our only actual dedicated defense skill.

Every other defense skill we have, is used offensively

On top of that, prior to HoT, thief’s natural counter was a guardian. However, thieves now have something they can target.
They can kill a guardian when they go for their heal.

What counters thief now? Reaper? Maybe.
That’s the only thing I can think of.

It’s possible that a power Ele overloading air could really threaten a thief, but I don’t think ele’s going to be too viable in this meta either.

Every other defense skill we have, is used offensively

Very similar to thief, don´t you think?
Yes, basi would go through the heal block from shelter (DHs mostly use the trap-heal currently) BUT needs charging first. Its very risky to cast it open, so its a matter of situation to cast it and reach him. There was similar discussion with the use of basilisk-venom together with choking gas. Choking gas is unblockable, so casting venom and then the gas at someone blocking would interrupt. Mostly far to complicate and situational. No its easier, but guard definitly just counters thief cause of shelter. What is now possible is beeing stealthed, cast venom and get a backstab through aegis. But thats possible now with traited steal, too. Other uses like interrupt crystal hybernation from rev. Has some uses but never OP.
Rev is very tanky and the damage-version has on demand reveal. Engis has on demand reveal, Druid is a very strong 1vs1 class. That few buffs won´t make thief king of 1vs1 again. More reduce a bit the gap.
Thief-buffs are not any problem. People were overreacting before june-patch about OP-thieves and guess what? Afterwards most people complained about PU-mesmer.
I´m curious what it will be that time.
Keeping alacrity at leat on 50% should be ok. You must admit, 40% cd reduction on everything is kitten strong. on 33% still 25% (if math on the forum was done right).
The utility from chronomance added alot of utility, which wasn´t available pre-june. Even mesmer now has passive 25% speed. Than the passive 25%-reduction of immob, chill, cripple and reduced stun-duration when moa-passive is up. I doubt it gonna be like pre-june. People that got carriend through the bunker-specc gonna have to improve through.

Edit: That cd-reduction from alacrity is on 100% uptime, right? Someone knows how much reduction is it average on a normal shatter-chrono?

“People that got carriend through the bunker-specc gonna have to improve through”

You mentioned a lot of things. Rev, thief, etc.

Allow me to ask you a fundamental question.

Why would you play mesmer over either thief or rev, if not for powerful alacrity and bunkering?

Portal? Thief and Rev are amazing at roaming without portal.

Thief already is able to cheese Chrono Shatter to death.

Rev already does more burst damage than Chrono. As well as more sustained damage.

Why would you pick Chrono over either of those?

Thats definitly the fundamental question. If alacrity-nerf is to much it needs to be buffed again immediatly. I want mesmer to be a viable choice.
Portal gets your team somewhere. Never underestimate that. Leaving portal on far binds a player there for the duration. Good portal-plays are amazing to watch.
Boon-strip with shatter is still there (I know its not as strong as it used to be :/ ).
double-moa can decide matches. Double-gravitiy still strong —> less bunkerish meta and no -quick-rezzes makes a strong-damage-CC-AOE better than now. The damage from it gets just healed in no second right now. No-durability -> less boon-duration on many classes -> more important to time your boon/boom-removes again?! A lot is very vague.
What do you mean with “cheese” him down? If you mean shadow-rejuvination and outstealthing I agree. PU was the same problem.

Leaving a portal on far with a thief on the enemy teams means the thief hops on you and forces you to portal back before you can do anything.

That’s reality.

Thief has a billion gap closers, and has every reason to focus a shatter mesmer.
And shatter mesmer loses to thief the moment it fails to 100-0 them.

What are you going to do? Distort? Use sword 2? Block?
Thief has answers to all of these. He just has to wait for you to use them, biding his time while he auto attacks you and dodges around. You can’t do enough damage back to him for it to matter until mind wrack is up.
And by then, all of your defense will be gone. You’ll have blown your dodges defensively. And the moment he sees you switch to greatsword, you’re dead.

What do you do?

No, seriously. What do you do?
Our literal only hope, is that rev counters thief.
Because Necro sure as hell won’t.

We don’t beat reaper out right. It’s a toss up, because reaper actually has the tools to kill mesmer quite easily.

But thief can kill reaper.

So our only hope, is that thief can’t kill rev, because that’s one of the few match-ups we actually win.

Coronit.9432:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Coronit.9432:

Rome.7124:

see this thread about Basilisk venom being unblockable and each thief can share it with all the team mates:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/unblockable-bassy-venom/first#post5923105

What’s the point of playing Mesmer again? ANet really want Mesmer to be out of the meta…

Before you embarrass yourself. To share that venom it has to be traited. Then that trait is a grandmaster in shadow-arts, so you have to choose between that trait and shadow-rejuvination, a trait that is stronger and was at least used in competitive pvp (or even normal) before. If I´m correct a normal shattermesmer would have one block (2 if something got blocked) in form of the shield. Saying that this unblockable venom (charges vanish with every missed attack) defines the end of mesmer is a bit overreacting, don´t you think?

Shield block is our only actual dedicated defense skill.

Every other defense skill we have, is used offensively

On top of that, prior to HoT, thief’s natural counter was a guardian. However, thieves now have something they can target.
They can kill a guardian when they go for their heal.

What counters thief now? Reaper? Maybe.
That’s the only thing I can think of.

It’s possible that a power Ele overloading air could really threaten a thief, but I don’t think ele’s going to be too viable in this meta either.

Every other defense skill we have, is used offensively

Very similar to thief, don´t you think?
Yes, basi would go through the heal block from shelter (DHs mostly use the trap-heal currently) BUT needs charging first. Its very risky to cast it open, so its a matter of situation to cast it and reach him. There was similar discussion with the use of basilisk-venom together with choking gas. Choking gas is unblockable, so casting venom and then the gas at someone blocking would interrupt. Mostly far to complicate and situational. No its easier, but guard definitly just counters thief cause of shelter. What is now possible is beeing stealthed, cast venom and get a backstab through aegis. But thats possible now with traited steal, too. Other uses like interrupt crystal hybernation from rev. Has some uses but never OP.
Rev is very tanky and the damage-version has on demand reveal. Engis has on demand reveal, Druid is a very strong 1vs1 class. That few buffs won´t make thief king of 1vs1 again. More reduce a bit the gap.
Thief-buffs are not any problem. People were overreacting before june-patch about OP-thieves and guess what? Afterwards most people complained about PU-mesmer.
I´m curious what it will be that time.
Keeping alacrity at leat on 50% should be ok. You must admit, 40% cd reduction on everything is kitten strong. on 33% still 25% (if math on the forum was done right).
The utility from chronomance added alot of utility, which wasn´t available pre-june. Even mesmer now has passive 25% speed. Than the passive 25%-reduction of immob, chill, cripple and reduced stun-duration when moa-passive is up. I doubt it gonna be like pre-june. People that got carriend through the bunker-specc gonna have to improve through.

Edit: That cd-reduction from alacrity is on 100% uptime, right? Someone knows how much reduction is it average on a normal shatter-chrono?

“People that got carriend through the bunker-specc gonna have to improve through”

You mentioned a lot of things. Rev, thief, etc.

Allow me to ask you a fundamental question.

Why would you play mesmer over either thief or rev, if not for powerful alacrity and bunkering?

Portal? Thief and Rev are amazing at roaming without portal.

Thief already is able to cheese Chrono Shatter to death.

Rev already does more burst damage than Chrono. As well as more sustained damage.

Why would you pick Chrono over either of those?

Coronit.9432:

Rome.7124:

see this thread about Basilisk venom being unblockable and each thief can share it with all the team mates:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/unblockable-bassy-venom/first#post5923105

What’s the point of playing Mesmer again? ANet really want Mesmer to be out of the meta…

Before you embarrass yourself. To share that venom it has to be traited. Then that trait is a grandmaster in shadow-arts, so you have to choose between that trait and shadow-rejuvination, a trait that is stronger and was at least used in competitive pvp (or even normal) before. If I´m correct a normal shattermesmer would have one block (2 if something got blocked) in form of the shield. Saying that this unblockable venom (charges vanish with every missed attack) defines the end of mesmer is a bit overreacting, don´t you think?

Shield block is our only actual dedicated defense skill.

Every other defense skill we have, is used offensively

On top of that, prior to HoT, thief’s natural counter was a guardian. However, thieves now have something they can target.
They can kill a guardian when they go for their heal.

What counters thief now? Reaper? Maybe.
That’s the only thing I can think of.

It’s possible that a power Ele overloading air could really threaten a thief, but I don’t think ele’s going to be too viable in this meta either.

I’ve played almost exclusively mesmer since I’ve started.

This isn’t a “FOTM” ordeal.

No, what they’re doing is dragging the class into hell, yet again.

Over the years, for PvE alone, they’ve been removing our support role.

More and more dungeon bosses and enemies can’t be reflected.
More and more new content with enemies that can’t be reflected.

So the whole “mesmer were reflect and TW bots” became “Mesmers are TW bots”.

Then in WvW, the PU changes actually made it so that thief with smoke fields and blasts, provided stealth more consistently than mesmer.

“Oh, but we had to kill this class with too much stealth!”

Freaking thief had stealth FOR AGES.
The PU swing was really a swing at tanky condi-mesmers ganking people in WvW.
With 0 regard for how it would effect the class elsewhere.

So now, we have alacrity changes to kill ChronoBunker, with 0 regard for how it’s going to effect Mesmer’s PvE.

We literally kill Well of Precog, with 0 regard to the fact that it was one of the 2 useful things we currently do in WvW and GvGs.

I’m a little sick of my favorite class getting an overbearing father figure’s massive shaft every time we get something that’s a little too strong.

DrDivine.5378:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

You do realize that pretty much every non-mesmer player in this game, would literally delete condi mesmer given the chance. Right?

They already deleted PU, after a long time of it being basically the only thing we were good at in WvW.
Now they’re trashing WoP, which was basically a “HOLY CRAP, SAVE THE COMMANDER TAG” button.

A button that was a double edged sword, might I add. Considering it potentially covered water fields.

We aren’t going to get anything to play as Mesmer from ANet.
ChronoShatter will be hard countered thief.
CondiShatter will be outclassed by Necro.
ChronoBunker is literally in the kittening ground. Losing the amulets & alacrity they needed.

PvE wise, mesmer is yet again just a timewarp slave. As alacrity’s effect reduction is absolutely disgusting in PvE, we’ll likely be outclassed by another class for DPS in longer fights.
PvE wise, we need more sustainable DPS, but we’ve asked for that for how kittening long? We’re never getting it.

WvW is lining up to be frontline dominated with some of the guardian changes. And a gank mesmer with gravity well might be worth it, considering the res changes.
But that’s basically all we’ll be. Shatter with a GW. Miss either of those and you’ve lost most of your effectiveness.

Like I said, since all the buffs/changes have not been announced yet, there is still room for them to provide mesmer for some counter play to thief and necro while still maintaining this. We have to be vocal about it, instead of thief bait or mesmer bait, let’s balance both

Sorry.
I’ve suggested many changes over time that would be:
1. Fun (Because it would change active gameplay, rather than focusing on passive defenses)
2. Balance-able.

Taking movespeed minor from chrono, and putting it on dom or dueling.

Adding a trait for clones on interrupt to chaos. With maybe a 2-5 second ICD.

Having well of precog only give distortion to you (and your clones) by default, unless you trait for it to apply to others, in which case it would no longer apply to you.
(Think necro’s shroud trait that makes it heal others instead of kill enemies)

Having it to where taking an elite spec changes some of the other trait lines accordingly. (That would be a good chance to remove/weaken synergies that are too strong)

And most importantly.
SPLITTING THIS GAME’S SKILLS ACROSS THE 3 DIFFERENT GAME MODES

messiah.1908:

Curunen.8729:

Whatever the case, Scepter will be mandatory.

I’ve got away using Sword/Torch and Staff up till now relying heavily on shatters for applying the condis, but things like the energy sigil change, alacrity nerf and chaos armour blind loss as well as scepter/MS buffs will force me to go Scepter.

Probably going to go Inspiration/Illusions/Chrono with the Mercenary Amulet, Scepter/something and Staff. Inspiration to have a chance at fending off the necros instead of melting when seeing one.

Sad because I liked the acrobatic stunts of both ileap, phase retreat, energy sigil and DE together, but that’s all in the bin now.

the problem with condi shatter is that to get condi burst you need shatters, but to cleanse condi of you . you need shatters. and you cant play both defense and offense unless you save some shatters for it and if you save them you are not bursty anymore.
unless you go fo null field with resistance and the healing cleanse

Welcome to all of the problems with Mesmer that 90% of the player base doesn’t understand.
You can’t afford to take any defense on mesmer, because all off your defense will be use offensively.
Your dodges will be used to summon clones.
Your blinks will be used to gap close and burst.
Your decoys will be used to invis and burst from stealth.
Your portals will be used to contest a second point.

If I keep playing mesmer, and don’t reroll into a necro, because holy kitten necro. I’ll probably be running a lockdown mesmer build with paladin ammy.
It’s the only thing I see possibly competing with thief so far.

You do realize that pretty much every non-mesmer player in this game, would literally delete condi mesmer given the chance. Right?

They already deleted PU, after a long time of it being basically the only thing we were good at in WvW.
Now they’re trashing WoP, which was basically a “HOLY CRAP, SAVE THE COMMANDER TAG” button.

A button that was a double edged sword, might I add. Considering it potentially covered water fields.

We aren’t going to get anything to play as Mesmer from ANet.
ChronoShatter will be hard countered thief.
CondiShatter will be outclassed by Necro.
ChronoBunker is literally in the kittening ground. Losing the amulets & alacrity they needed.

PvE wise, mesmer is yet again just a timewarp slave. As alacrity’s effect reduction is absolutely disgusting in PvE, we’ll likely be outclassed by another class for DPS in longer fights.
PvE wise, we need more sustainable DPS, but we’ve asked for that for how kittening long? We’re never getting it.

WvW is lining up to be frontline dominated with some of the guardian changes. And a gank mesmer with gravity well might be worth it, considering the res changes.
But that’s basically all we’ll be. Shatter with a GW. Miss either of those and you’ve lost most of your effectiveness.

Simonoly.4352:

- Alacrity nerf is fair enough.
- Precog well change is utterly weird and very boring.
- Malicious Sorcery is still not GM worthy.
- Chaos Armour change is unfair. Unlike other auras, each condition/boon only has a one in three chance of applying – therefore the blind was completely and utterly justified as it may never even proc. Simply don’t get this one.

I’m guessing there are more buffs coming to Mesmer that haven’t been mentioned? That sceptre rework? How about making those other off-hands viable? What about Phantasmal Mage? How about a buff to condi Mes so it can exist outside the confines of the Illusions specialisation? What will Chrono get to cope with those buffs to Thief that directly counter shatter Chrono?

- Alacrity nerf is fair enough.
No, they should start smaller first. What is Anet’s addiction with halfing things? go 66%→50%, let the PLAYER BASE test it, and go from there.

- Precog well change is utterly weird and very boring.
Precog change is… stupid… I imagine it’s in response to its usefulness in WvW as a counter to the unblockable necro well bombs? As well as its use in some PvE aspects I guess? A lower duration would’ve been better…

- Chaos Armour change is unfair. Unlike other auras, each condition/boon only has a one in three chance of applying – therefore the blind was completely and utterly justified as it may never even proc. Simply don’t get this one.
No one does. We have what? 2 sources of chaos armor? Hell, to even get the kitten we’re on staff. Staff is a weak weapon outside of chaos armor and phase retreat. Staff needs some serious kittening buffs, because it’s useless even with the things mentioned.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Unless they mentioned a backstab buff, having basilisk making the next two attacks unlockable means very little. Doesn’t change the fact that the thief either ends the fight in a second or two or dies/runs. In either case, it’ll be a very short battle. If he holds onto basilisk instead of opening with it, you simply have to hold onto your heal. Personally, I don’t have an issue with this. My real gripe is that if we somehow guess correctly and dodge his backstab, he gets to simply run after us spamming 1 until it lands.

Also, complaining about venomous aura…? Really…?

Unblockable bassy venom means thieves get to kill their natural counter (guards) on their heal.
Unblockable bassy venom means mesmer shield is even less useful…

And while I haven’t seen anyone complain about venomous aura on this thread, venom share wells are OP in WvW.
Granted, it’s been nerfed before. But it’s still really really powerful.

Kuya.6495:

WatcherJason.2678:

Josh Davis.6015:

Runes
We’ll be removing the following runes from PvP:

• Rune of Durability

Amulet Changes:

We’re also removing the following amulets:

• Celestial

1) Will I be getting the gold back from unlocking durability?
2) Why limit our play style choices? If I enjoy cele ele in WvW I am not allowed to play it in spvp just because you say so? If you want to get true balance separate spvp and pve skills, tune what needs to be tuned and stop destroying play styles that you see as too powerful. Remove amulets altogether and let us choose what stats are on what gear, give us the choice, this cookie cutter nonsense is getting boring.

Half the forum has been clamoring to limit your playstyle by having cele removed. I think it’s fair you at least aim your fury at them.

No.

ANet needs to learn to deal with players pressuring them.

If the player base knows that they can pressure ANet into doing changes, then the player base will perpetually do that

The player base is the player base. They can’t actually change the game.

The change is ANet’s, and therefore if you’re dissatisfied with it, the anger should be pointed at ANet.

Hannibal.5739:

If ur getting this kittened about what happens in a video game i think u need a new hobby

If ur getting this kittened about what happened to your favorite arts & crafts store I think you need a new hobby.
Perhaps you should take up gaming?

You see how that just doesn’t work?

Yeah, I’m frustrated that the devs took something I legitimately enjoyed, and appear to be destroying it.
Is that so unbelievable?
Are you actually that detached from your hobbies?

Kuya.6495:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

mrauls.6519:

Good luck w those games.

Personally I was getting tired of people wearing celestial type amulets… Fighting should be worrying to stay alive because you know mistakes could be fatal if your opponent plays right

Or that you could be 100-0’d with little no warning, by an unblockable bassy-venom.

Dear god, bassy venom is unblockable now…
Just letting that sink into my soul for a moment…

Oh but don’t worry, at least you won’t have bunkers! Rite guise? Rite?

Dying in 0.1 seconds is TOTALLY MORE FUN THAN UNKILLABLE FOES, RITE?? RITE??

WRONG

DEAD WRONG

I think you’re being hysterical, but i have to admit i felt a great sense of dread when they mentioned unblockable basiliks venom.

What part of that is being hysterical?

They’re removing build diversity, on top of buffing a class’s damage that already had insane burst damage.
The problem with thief was that it couldn’t survive well in a fight against bunkers.

So, what does ANet do?

Delete all current bunker builds by removing their amulets, give the thief a passive evasion, and make bassy venom unblockable.

Like, Bassy venom wasn’t already strong enough.

Like blocks weren’t already weak enough.

Oh, but lets make Well of Precog a block instead of invuln, so it can be useless against all of the unblockable attacks that necros pump out in WvW.

Hysterical? Really?

ANet’s REMOVING MORE FREAKING BUILD VARIETY FROM THE GAME, AND I’M HYSTERICAL?

No mate.
I’m kittened.

I’m furious.

And I’m even more furious that people are actually praising the removal of build variety.

Like it’s a good thing.

Can’t balance something? Remove it.

I hope I’m wrong.

I actually do.

Because if I’m not, kitten this game.

Silverwing.8750:

Chrono nerfed.
Shatter mesmer likely to be destroyed by the new thief.

So which mesmer build will be viable in pvp if any?

Condi or Lockdown.

Dire Condi might be able to survive a thief burst.

Marauder lockdown mes depends entirely on whether or not you get the jump on thief.

But even if you do, you’ll probably still die. Passive defenses and unblockable bassy venom…
sigh

mrauls.6519:

Good luck w those games.

Personally I was getting tired of people wearing celestial type amulets… Fighting should be worrying to stay alive because you know mistakes could be fatal if your opponent plays right

Or that you could be 100-0’d with little no warning, by an unblockable bassy-venom.

Dear god, bassy venom is unblockable now…
Just letting that sink into my soul for a moment…

Oh but don’t worry, at least you won’t have bunkers! Rite guise? Rite?

Dying in 0.1 seconds is TOTALLY MORE FUN THAN UNKILLABLE FOES, RITE?? RITE??

WRONG

DEAD WRONG

Yeah, YAY!
There’s nothing to stop the power creep from decimating this game.

I’ll have to send my apologies to the BDO and B&S fanboys. Because I’m likely to join them.

Have someone hold off 1v1 until a mesmer can moa them, or a thief can demolish them.

mrauls.6519:

I feel like necroes are getting the buffs they’re getting because they will be the ones to stop a possible overflow of bunkers… I feel like their changes were made purely for that reason. 15 second corrupt boon? Scepter boon corruption? We’ll see soon enough…

What overflow of bunkers?
They’re removing most (all?) the amulets bunkers use.

So instead of balancing PvP around a variety of stats.
Lets just remove the stats.

Seems legit, good job ANet.
10/10.

Reminds me of balancing water combat.
Nahh, lets just remove it from PvP.

Aomine.5012:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

R.I.P. Mesmer – 2016.

What is with ANet always doing a 50% nerf to things?
I could understand 66% on alacrity down to 50%, and then seeing how things played out there, and change accordingly.
But half of its effectiveness? Jesus christ.

On top of the res nerfs.

On top of buffing Necro’s boon corruption.

On top of nerfing buffing Ele.

On top of making Well of Precog useless across the board.

Do ANet devs even play this game?

You should play this game first.

I see so many forum heroes only do the talking and not playing :P
If you don’t believe in pro-league, try do some matches without abusing the OP specs and you can see the world better.

Btw res nerf is not just a Mesmer thing. Everyone got hit equally.
Druid and Revenant suffered from this too.
Necro buff is more devastating to Druid, Tempest, and Scrapper compare to Chrono, since all 3 of them are much more heavily reliant on boons to survive, so it’s not really a mesmer thing too.

Stop playing the victim here.

Lmfao.
You’re talking to someone who’s other main classes are Thief and Engie.

You know what I’m going to do after these changes hit?
Play thief. (Not like I stopped playing it anyway. Staff thief and condi thief are actually pretty strong)

Jesus, the buffs they did to thief.

But no, the nerfs they did to mesmer are ridiculous. And if you can’t see that, I can’t help you.

Precog nerf hurts WvW more than it hurts PvP.
Alacrity nerf hurts PvE more than it hurts PvP. And it hits PvP pretty hard.
And quickness/slow changes are annoying.

and we don’t even know what all they’re doing, this is just a preview. It’s not the patch notes

R.I.P. Mesmer – 2016.

What is with ANet always doing a 50% nerf to things?
I could understand 66% on alacrity down to 50%, and then seeing how things played out there, and change accordingly.
But half of its effectiveness? Jesus christ.

On top of the res nerfs.

On top of buffing Necro’s boon corruption.

On top of nerfing buffing Ele.

On top of making Well of Precog useless across the board.

Do ANet devs even play this game?

I’d like the movement speed increase to be put on domination or dueling traitline (Hits classes that aren’t taking Dom/Dueling, like bunker mesmer).

Dueling would be the more versatile option, as that would also help out condi-shatter.

And a bunker mesmer trading Insp or Chaos for either dom/dueling would be sacrificing a lot of their sustainer or boons(stab included) for that movement speed, and everything else in that branch.

For replacing that trait, perhaps put a very short duration regen whenever you gain alacrity.
But if you do that, you’ll also have to hit our protection uptime on Chaos, because we gain protection on regen.

Idk, I’d be interested in suggestions for replacing that missing chrono minor.
Perhaps summoning a phantasm gives a short (say 1 second) aoe alacrity? Considering how high the cooldown is for phantasm summoning skills, it wouldn’t do much. But it’s something.

shrug

Ross Biddle.2367:

….no.

What Core mesmer needs is various means of clone generation from various trait lines that does not involve deceptive evasion. Alacrity is important for Chrono’s to get invited to PvE groups, but for PvP viability Mesmer needs CLONES.

And, you know, other stuff.

Hmm, how about create a clone on Interrupt?
With maybe an ICD of 5 seconds? On the chaos line?

Would make the daze mantra stronger, and in turn mantra mesmer.

And interrupts aren’t the easiest thing to land, so it would be pretty skill based.

Aomine.5012:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

godz raiden.2631:

Ithilwen.1529:

Your personal attack is off topic. My point was and is that Mesmer bruises egos for two reasons; It has an image that isn’t hyper aggressive masculine.

Tell that to my bearded norn mesmer. But in all seriousness, I don’t understand this point that you keep trying to make. Is it because mesmer skills have a lot of purple/pink color to them or something? I consider mesmers hyper aggressive as a class, particularly on power shatter builds where the mesmer effectively wants to spawn clones as fast as possible for strong mind wracks, which usually leads to the mesmer using a lot of skills very quickly (also known as hyper aggressively).

Anyway, stop trying to make this about gender somehow. Keep that crap on tumblr.

I think the point attempting to be made, is that mage classes are seen as weak and feminine.
Which, if we’re speaking traditionally RPG wise, that’s pretty much true. White mages were almost always female. Mages were always weak physically.
Mages also always die easier.

It’s the last point that I think she’s hinting at.
If we go by old class statistics, it’s no real wonder that warrior & guardian were on the top of the player count.

They’re seen as the “tougher” & “easier to play” classes.

Where as mesmer was further down the line.

I don’t agree with her interpretation based on gender politics, but the underlining point that everyone expects mages to die when you sneeze on them still stands.

One of the big questions asked by a lot of guardian players in response to ChronoBunker, is how a light armor character can bunker better than them in heavy armor.

I feel like all these arguments are way off topic at this point.

It literally has NOTHING to do with it.

I don’t know about others, but I voice my opinion by my actual experience in high MMR fights, and base my point entirely on the experience I faces in the match.
No other stereotypical personal preference is involved.

“I don’t know about others, but I voice my opinion by my actual experience in high MMR fights, and base my point entirely on the experience I faces in the match.
No other stereotypical personal preference is involved.”

While I agree, I believe the point being made is that others have biases based off of personal preferences and stereotypes.
As well, it does seem like the loudest complaints are the ones usually answered.

I mean, I’ve seen complaints about ChronoBunker spamming blinds.
In which case, I have to seriously wonder what the heck that person was smoking.

Blinding dissipation is on dueling. If a chrono bunker traded either his heals & condi removal (Insp) or his stability (Chaos), then you really shouldn’t have much of a problem killing them. Just Condi/CC them to death.
Really simple, actually.

Unless, ofc, they were arguing for a shatter mesmer nerf in the middle of a bunker meta.

I’ve also seen absurd suggestions like reducing moa time to 3 seconds. Cooldown better be about 40 seconds then, because otherwise moa is literally useless for anything other than stopping rampage/lich, which Engineer does anyway.

“it has no counter play”
Moa’s freaking hurt. And unless a team focus’s you out, and no one on your team comes to protect you, you really shouldn’t die.
Shatter Mesmer really doesn’t have the damage to solo a moa kill if the moa times their dodges.

There does appear to be some legitimate attempts to completely destroy the class on the forums.

Then again, I see the same thing for every class.
shrug

godz raiden.2631:

Ithilwen.1529:

Your personal attack is off topic. My point was and is that Mesmer bruises egos for two reasons; It has an image that isn’t hyper aggressive masculine.

Tell that to my bearded norn mesmer. But in all seriousness, I don’t understand this point that you keep trying to make. Is it because mesmer skills have a lot of purple/pink color to them or something? I consider mesmers hyper aggressive as a class, particularly on power shatter builds where the mesmer effectively wants to spawn clones as fast as possible for strong mind wracks, which usually leads to the mesmer using a lot of skills very quickly (also known as hyper aggressively).

Anyway, stop trying to make this about gender somehow. Keep that crap on tumblr.

I think the point attempting to be made, is that mage classes are seen as weak and feminine.
Which, if we’re speaking traditionally RPG wise, that’s pretty much true. White mages were almost always female. Mages were always weak physically.
Mages also always die easier.

It’s the last point that I think she’s hinting at.
If we go by old class statistics, it’s no real wonder that warrior & guardian were on the top of the player count.

They’re seen as the “tougher” & “easier to play” classes.

Where as mesmer was further down the line.

I don’t agree with her interpretation based on gender politics, but the underlining point that everyone expects mages to die when you sneeze on them still stands.

One of the big questions asked by a lot of guardian players in response to ChronoBunker, is how a light armor character can bunker better than them in heavy armor.

Ithilwen.1529:

You people totally have the wrong impression of CS. A smart player doesn’t double hit elites. They use CS to effectively lower elite cooldown and as a survival skill.

Gravity well has the same cooldown as CS, so there’s actually little reason not to double cast it. Other than not needing to.
Not quite sure why GW is the only elite we have like that. 180s cooldown would probably have made more sense…

Timewarp/Moa on the other hand, I agree with. Casting the moa and going on the full 180 second cooldown isn’t something you generally want to do. But it can be powerful for swinging a team fight into your favor, should the need arise.

Aomine.5012:

Burtnik.5218:

Aomine.5012:

Burtnik.5218:

Aomine.5012:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Aktium.9506:

So you think Mesmer is fine in its current state where it causes a meta that forces matches where neither team can even gain any points at all for up to several minutes? A class and build that causes teams to rage quit from tournaments with actual prizes? Or the fact that Well of Precog utterly breaks Stronghold mechanics?

Yeah no, Mesmer isn’t fine. There’s a bunch of things wrong with PvP at the moment and Mesmer has plunked its bottom down at the top of the list.

Top of the list? No. But yes, res mechanics were broken (not Chrono’s fault), Chrono bunker is a tough nut (but hardly the toughest), and the problems in PvP are many.

Top of the list is Bunker Tempest, hands down.

Hooray for everything getting getting nerfed!

Oh and Ithilwen, now is not the time to say you were finally getting success on Mesmer after 4 years, even if it is true. -_-u

Anyone fight legit through legendary should notice that how broken Revenant and Chrono is. People who still fail to see it either are the abuser themselves and try to play victim, or complete scrubs who barely pvp.

Could say the same about druid and scrapper as well.

Druid is horrible in team fight if the opponent is half decent (extremely vulnerable to stunlock/CC when elite is not up). They have limited stunbreak, unlike Revenant and Mesmer which has TONS of it.
Druid doesn’t has portal.
Druid cleanse is unreliable (2 sec delay on every supposedly cleanse skill)

Druid doesn’t even come close to Revenant and Mesmer atm, especially after bejillion nerfs already. (Mesmer got nerfed ONE time, Druid alrdy got nerfed 5 times post HoT launch). If they’re any closer to Mesmer, top team would have use 2 of them instead of 2 Mesmers already.

Stop lying and face the truth. Mesmer and Revenant are by far the strongest classes in this game atm by MILES.

Dear Anet, nerf rock, paper is fine.
Signed
Scissors

^Your post.

Who has the most broken 1v1 build in entire game? Ability to bunker yet deal zerk damage and be braindead like old turret engis? Thats right, druid. You send druid far at beginning of the match and he pretyt much prevents the cap, send someone from mid to 2v1 and sure..but then mid is lost gg wp

Some experiences you should be knowing if you climbed up to legendary legit.

Druid can never 1 v 1 and kill a half decent bunker Mesmer.

Druid will die instantly in a +1 fight if the enemy is half decent, especially when chrono or scrapper is presented (Throw 2 gravity well or slick shoe on him while other guy dps him = dead Druid)

Druid is vulnerable to focus fire in team fight. (Reaper, DH and Druid should be your number 1 priority to call out because they DIE FAST to focus fire and chain cc)

Druid need WAY MORE SKILLS to perform well than Chrono because if they make a single mistake in a team fight, they die instantly. They don’t have invulnerable/ block and evade spam.

If you have 2 good bunker mesmer, rotation and mobility doesn’t matter that much anymore.

Far distraction at start is doable to all bunker classes. This is not a Druid thing. Revenant and Chrono do it way better than Druid because they can stall out 1 v 2 much longer if they’re good. Rev has a higher chance of kill the bunker 1 v 1 too, and they are STRONG AGAINST DRUID because of the broken Banish Enchantment with no CD and can spam 18~24 stacks of confusions in a blink while Druid use SotP.

As a ChronoShatter mesmer, can confirm.
Druid is easy to kill when I +1.
IF I have moa/gravity well up.

Without those, Druid is quite a bit harder to kill, but still doable.

On the flip side, ranged pressure tends to present an issue for a Shatter mesmer (And a lot of bunker players don’t know how to deal with it at all). So it’s not like druid is helpless against us.
Especially since I run scholars, you can reduce my damage by 10% before I even get a chance to shatter on your face. Not that that makes a difference if I’m running moa, but still.

Firebird.8324:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Oddly enough, I actually agree with you for once.

Nerfs to alacrity, quickness, and slow are pretty painful. As it is, it’s already hard for a chronoshatter mesmer to stomp someone without distortion up.
Meaning we’ll be cleaving more while an enemy is in downstate, rather than stomping and getting them out of the game.

The quickness res’s also helped in PvE, and nerfs to alacrity will hurt PvE mesmer in more difficult combat.

At minimum, I think they need to split skills across the 3 different game modes.
I’m currently enjoying mesmer actually being useful in PvE, without having to rely on reflects (Many enemies can’t even be reflected anymore).

Idk where we will land in WvW.
If they don’t touch gravity well, with the rally and res nerfs we could actually be very powerful in WvW.
Then again, I’d say the same about venom-share wells…

Just put double gravity wells down, or double moa the people trying to rez/stomp, don’t worry, you’ll still be OP as hell. Wish I could double lich

Assuming we don’t get 100-0’d by buffed thieves. (D/P still hurts like hell on any non-bunker build)

Although, whether or not thieves are even viable in the upcoming meta depends on how hard they scale down all of the AoE damage being output (Zerker ele’s overload air actually hurts… a lot… btw.), or by how hard they buff Thief’s sustain.

If they are viable, I don’t see Shatter mes having a fun time. Not that we were having a fun time anyway. shrug

Oddly enough, I actually agree with you for once.

Nerfs to alacrity, quickness, and slow are pretty painful. As it is, it’s already hard for a chronoshatter mesmer to stomp someone without distortion up.
Meaning we’ll be cleaving more while an enemy is in downstate, rather than stomping and getting them out of the game.

The quickness res’s also helped in PvE, and nerfs to alacrity will hurt PvE mesmer in more difficult combat.

At minimum, I think they need to split skills across the 3 different game modes.
I’m currently enjoying mesmer actually being useful in PvE, without having to rely on reflects (Many enemies can’t even be reflected anymore).

Idk where we will land in WvW.
If they don’t touch gravity well, with the rally and res nerfs we could actually be very powerful in WvW.
Then again, I’d say the same about venom-share wells…

Xillllix.3485:

Burtnik.5218:

Xillllix.3485:

Please just tell us that after this balance patch we won’t get hit for 24k Coalescence of Ruin double hits from a single cast in WvW.

Its your like..3 or 4 post in this thread about something noone care. It doesnt go anywhere so the qq is pointless. Dont want to be hit for 10k cor? Time to get toughness gear and move on.

Everyone in the WvW community cares about this. It’s why many people are just leaving the game. Toughness doesn’t change anything, you still get hit for 10k and the double hit still 1-shot you even if you have 3k armor.

As someone who is a major WvW & GvG fanboy.
I agree. CoR is ridiculous.
There’s little need for actual gank, other than a mesmer to drop GW on downs.

Granted, I think the absolutely OP banners & other keep upgrades (Airship is THE MOST BALANCED THING I’VE EVER SEEN IN THIS GAME Good job, ANet. Same with the 75% damage reduction on keep siege.) are more pressing.

ronpierce.2760:

Malchior.5732:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Hunter.4783:

In other words, rev nerfs with NO COMPENSATION.

Half legends will remain worthless

To be fair, the game has only been worse since Rev came on the scene. Coincidence?

The game has only been worse since they started focusing on PvP :^)

I think that’s because they tried to make everyone have too many tools at once. The result was that, yeah, people felt that their classes were “complete” and everything was flashy, but everything ended up too good.

The devs have a difficult challenge here, and usually developers don’t act on it because they don’t want to feel like they’re “stripping classes down” (though in reality, they’re actually just taking classes back to their roots and identity) and that’s actually REMOVE a lot of stuff that they should have never had tons of. Everyone has about a million blinds now, and blocks and evades. Once everyone can do everything the next step is (which has already begun) is start adding every effect to skills that already have effects and piling it on (Picking on scrapper a bit here). Or in order to fill a unique role you have to be extreme to the point of silly gameplay (Daredevil evade time, the potency of Alacrity).

Simplicity is what makes games work. You can have tons of depth and still maintain simplicity and likewise you can have tons of complexity and very little depth.

I’d like to see them actually take classes back to their roots and pretty much globally reduce the power contribution of a lot of traits or make them more about changing play styles more-so than just adding tons of ridiculous passive benefits.

Sadly, this isn’t really a “balance patch” task, but I hope they take it to heart because the game needs less pseudo complexity (randomly firing components and passives) and more depth (thoughtful building, hard choices and sacrifices) that is more about actively playing the game and not ‘cheesing’ the mechanics in your favor.

(ps, note, I know DD isn’t considered OP, but they were a shining example of having to go to extremes to forge a niche in a world where everyone has a bit of everything.)

One of the things I’ve always liked about mesmer, is that none of the trait lines were ever really garbage.
They all had their uses under different circumstances, and you were almost always trading out a useful trait line for another.

The problem there, is that our trait line was a “jack of all trades, sort-of master of 1”.
We had mobility & high burst damage for PvP & WvW (+ veil), and a reflect build for PvE.

Although, in mobility and burst damage area, thief had us beat.

Thief wasn’t an insta-win vs mesmer, but panic strike thief was really strong against mesmer.

And in PvE? Guard did what we did, but better.

WvW? They nerfed PU in response to everyone hating tanky condi-mesmer builds. At that point, smoke fields + blasts were more effective than veil. But mesmer still made a solid member of gank in 15v15.

Now, I hate to say it.
But the majority of what people are complaining about sustain wise for mesmer, are things we’ve always had.
Alacrity is a buff to what we had. And a necessary one in PvE (imo). We don’t do as much damage as other classes. Utility is kind of our thing in this area. Especially since there is a metric ton of enemies in which reflects do not work in this expansion. (THANKS ANET)
“But what about double time warp”, it’s good. I question if there will be a falloff point in higher level fractals though. You’re pretty much trying to run as much alacrity up time as possible at those points. Even to the point where you’ll sacrifice personal DPS and take shield over another off hand.

For PvP, frankly moa/timewarp can be a stronger pick than gravity well (I pretty much always take moa soloq now). TW helps with res’s and stomping, which are meta in this game mode atm. Moa generates a down better than GW (GW doesn’t work on bunkers with loads of blocks & stab), and if it’s a 2v2 you’re in, also guarantees the finish because you can do moa a second time.

Honestly, I’m not entirely sure how ANet should nerf mesmer. Moving the movement speed into a non-chrono traitline would be a start at making base mesmer stronger, and attacking the chronobunker line.
Alacrity nerf for pvp only would be good. You can get too much up time on it in PvP.

Nerfing gravity well is kind of a whatever move in my opinion.
In a meta filled with stab, blocks, evades, and blinds. I have more of a problem with hunter’s ward than I do with GW (Hunter’s ward is toxic in WvW).

I’m concerned about some of these.
My honest suggestion, is that you guys really need to separate skills for PvP, WvW, and PvE.

Alacrity stacking is good for PvE (You mean I can actually play mesmer in high level fractals? Hallelujah!), but not really effective as it currently stands in WvW. And is a bit too strong in PvP.

If you would split the skills across the different game modes, you would reach a more balanced experience across the entire game, rather than trying to chase your own tail balancing all 3 at the same time.

I imagine it would also create less arguing between PvP, PvE, and WvW balancing teams. They could be more independent from one another.

Drennon.7190:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Drennon.7190:

I dont believe anyone thinks it’s going to “ruin gw2.” However, I am one of the people who will be moving to it. My reasons being.

-Competitive 1v1 (don’t have to rely on 4 other people)
-Frequent balance
-An established esports presence in other counties.
-Active combat. (ie passives aren’t running wild like gw2)
-Condis (dots) are not a massive source of damage

and my #1 reason..
-No more Arena Net!

I’ve said this a while back, and I’ll say it again.
BnS is made by the people over ArenaNet, NCSoft.

If you think ANet is incompetent, then surely you’d think their managing entity is also incompetent. Else they would’ve forced some changes around here by now, right?

This is what I don’t understand with the ANet bashers.

And “Oh it’s established in Korea”.

So was Aion. Anyone here playing that?
How about Maplestory?

Should I go on, or are we about done?

What are you trying to prove to me? I’m moving to a game that I already know I enjoy on Taiwan servers.

NCsoft has put out several games that I enjoyed. Aion, Lineage, Wildstar, etc. I don’t think NCsoft is incompetent, but I do think Mike O’Brien is an idiot and ruining my once favorite game.

Whether you like it or not, Blade and Soul already has far more success in competitive pvp then this kitten show will ever achieve.

I’m glad you mentioned 3 games that died very rapidly.
Enjoy having the same thing happen in BnS I suppose. If it even takes off in NA.

Drennon.7190:

I dont believe anyone thinks it’s going to “ruin gw2.” However, I am one of the people who will be moving to it. My reasons being.

-Competitive 1v1 (don’t have to rely on 4 other people)
-Frequent balance
-An established esports presence in other counties.
-Active combat. (ie passives aren’t running wild like gw2)
-Condis (dots) are not a massive source of damage

and my #1 reason..
-No more Arena Net!

I’ve said this a while back, and I’ll say it again.
BnS is made by the people over ArenaNet, NCSoft.

If you think ANet is incompetent, then surely you’d think their managing entity is also incompetent. Else they would’ve forced some changes around here by now, right?

This is what I don’t understand with the ANet bashers.

And “Oh it’s established in Korea”.

So was Aion. Anyone here playing that?
How about Maplestory?

Should I go on, or are we about done?

Chaith.8256:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

The finisher doesn’t bug me.
The reflect does.

I only added emphasis on the finisher (and damage), because I believe a reflect on a 6 second CD is already over the top.
As, hilariously, the builds that have always been able to pressure an engineer, happen to be long range. cough Ranger cough
Now it doesn’t even get that, as you’ll just be able to fling a lot of its damage back, on a skill that does damage, and that I see most scrappers just mindlessly using on CD because why not? It’ll be back in 6 seconds anyway.

Also, frankly I want to reduce the protection up time every class has, which is why I picked out Recovery Matrix. Stabilization core doesn’t seem too ridiculous. I get its powerful, but it doesn’t stand out as OP to me. A little bit of stab isn’t that bad.

Ok, so when you type something insignificant for the sake of having a second point with caps and bold font, it’s not a good thing.

I typed it in bold caps because the guy didn’t read what I said the first time.
Edit: And no, this isn’t back peddling.
This is me admitting I misspoke.

My first comment the only thing capped was the 6 second cooldown, which is honestly ridiculously low.
Keep it as is, increase the cooldown by say, 8 seconds. And maybe I’d let off of it.

But with everything it currently has, including the finisher, it either needs some of those things shaved off (I suggested removing the reflect), or to have its CD hit.

Gaaroth.2567:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

I’d like to scale everything back by a large amount, and have longer (meaningful) fights.

WAT? Fight already take forever in this bunker meta. You need to nerf damage fo DH traps that are tad strong and nefr the bunk potential in general.
Fights need to last less and be way more dependent on reflexes and skill, not a crapload of boons and easy CD to 5->100% you health in 2 secs..

I think you missed the “(meaningful)” there.

A lot of classes do way too much damage, and have way too much sustain on top of that.

However, long(er) fights are more fun than everyone going 100-0 the moment a burst build looks at them because “skill”.

I’ve played Shatter Mes & Thief pretty much from day one of me picking up this game.
There have been times when neither took much skill to get things done.

Despite them being “risky” builds.

Chaith.8256:

To the dude writing in caps lock bold font that Electro Whirl is also a finisher, you can relax that topic, because it could be removed and the skill would not lose even .01 of its value. One bolt being shot in a random direction is beyond worthless.

Hammer is a very strong HoT skill kit overall, pretty much the only shift in playstyle that the Elite spec brings. Keep in mind, in the meta Marauder might stack build, the Engineer becomes like a Warrior’s kit, very weapon heavy.

I think individually the Hammer has no skills that carry the weapon in effectiveness, (Overcharged Shot, Hip Shot). When things like Rev, Chrono and Scrapper are being brought down, I can see the smartest way putting the cooldowns on defensive skills up, damage nerfs, no thanks.

Also I haven’t used Recovery Matrix in many PvP builds, I think stability on Function Gyros give insane value outside of 1v1, and let’s your team run riskier builds.

My only wish for Scrapper offense is that Rocket Charge could be made faster, single target instead of 5 target AoE spam, and be a must-land burst ability. Hammer would be so much more fun.

The finisher doesn’t bug me.
The reflect does.

I only added emphasis on the finisher (and damage), because I believe a reflect on a 6 second CD is already over the top.
As, hilariously, the builds that have always been able to pressure an engineer, happen to be long range. cough Ranger cough
Now it doesn’t even get that, as you’ll just be able to fling a lot of its damage back, on a skill that does damage, and that I see most scrappers just mindlessly using on CD because why not? It’ll be back in 6 seconds anyway.

Also, frankly I want to reduce the protection up time every class has, which is why I picked out Recovery Matrix. Stabilization core doesn’t seem too ridiculous. I get its powerful, but it doesn’t stand out as OP to me. A little bit of stab isn’t that bad.

It’s a bug, and devs are on break until after the 1st.

Probably deserves to be in the bug report forum.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs

1. I am hearing from friends that GvG is mostly about Coalescence of Ruin. So Revenants managed to break class diversity.
Bingo. I actually noticed that a lot of people aren’t even running a gank anymore. Revs went and replaced that role. So GG Mesmer and Thief.
The problem is, Revenant literally fits into every role in GvG

3. Viper Revenants probably caused people to quit the game, or take the game less seriously, or take a break when it was supposed to be GW2 “Golden Age”.
There is an answer to Viper Revenants. Perhaps I’m biased, but on my Chrono Shatter, once I’ve forced them into Mallyx, they’re dead.

4. It’s probably a wider issue for them, but Berserker or Warriors seem to have lost their roles and are replaced by Revenants.
Warriors are still needed for group condi clear in the front line party, if I’m not mistaken. May have to ask my guild leader what he thinks, as I haven’t GvG’d in a bit.

5. Revenants are causing a balance turmoil, which is to expect for any new classes, but I don’t think one should expect all of the above: it’s a lot for one single class.
It has a lot of things that people would consider OP on any other class. Imagine Mesmer with Unrelenting Assault. Or a blocking heal that fired off at 25% health. Or that bloody Eye for an Eye trait. No seriously, that trait can go die in a fire. I pretty much have to burn Distortion to CC a rev, or else I’m dead.

Mirror of Anguish is one thing, Eye for an Eye is another.

“mmr needs to be reset before season 2
This will make top players have decent queue times and progression in leagues”

The top players rushed to the top of the leagues before anyone else, and got plopped into a setting where they literally had no one to be matched up against.

This suggestion does not solve that.
As the match making system is 50% MMR/50% Division

There are essentially 2 options that they have.

Option 1:
1. Ditch the pip system, it’s bad design.
2. Use the MMR System by itself, set divisions at certain MMRs, make it transparent what each player’s MMR is.

Option 2:
1. Ditch everything, and rework the kittener from ground up. You have big daddy Blizzard to look at for inspiration. Good luck.

Edit:
Oh, and seriously.
Add more varied game types, and stop making me stand in a circle on conquest. It’s a direct counter to a lot of squishy classes that only want to be melee range for a very short amount of time. Replace points with a channeled captures.

Kodama.6453:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Remove reflect from electro whirl. (If it’s going to hit for 3400 & be a finisher ON A 6 SECOND COOLDOWN, it doesn’t need reflect)

Delete recovery matrix, switch out with something offensive. Hell if I know what.

Electro Whirl has a SINGLE WHIRL FINISHER, which is the weakest finisher you can have of all. That it has reflec is totally fine, it fits perfectly because the scrapper is a full defensive trait line.

And so we come to Recovery Matrix. Replace it with something offensive on a defensive trait line… seriously, what do people expect? A defensive trait line shouldn’t be defensive nowadays?

Oh I’m sorry.
I didn’t realize that offensive traits weren’t allowed on a trait line with Mass Momentum, Perfectly Weighted, and Expert Examination.

I apologize.
/s

Now that we’ve got that out of the way.
A REFLECT ON A 6 SECOND COOL DOWN IS UNACCEPTABLE.

A REFLECT ON A 6 SECOND COOL DOWN, WITH A FINISHER, IS EVEN MORE UNACCEPTABLE

A REFLECT ON A 6 SECOND COOL DOWN, WITH A FINISHER, AND 3000+ DAMAGE IS EVEN MORE UNACCEPTABLE

Scrapper is defensive? Do you not see all of the offensive damage this class brings for a “defensive elite”.

Ragnarox.9601:

Revenant (1 tier above all-need nerfing all aspects of it)
Tempest (perma 40% protection need to go to 15 sec cd, 20% dmg decrease)
Chrono(tone down all stuff by 25%)
Druid (daze from 4sec to 1 sec, 25% less heal, 30% less pet dmg)
DH (daze need to go home, increase cd of traps)
DD ( decrease vault dmg by 50%)
Reaper (decrease dmg of chill by 50% if wearing bers or marauder amulets, decrease effective hp)
Bers ( somehow balanced if they nerf those above: edit: actually gunflame needs big nerf in wvw – 15k dmg on 2.9k armor is too much)
Scrapper (somehow balanced if they nerf those above – meed minor tweaking)

Scrapper is too easily able to reset fights.

Nerf the kitten out of the stealth gyro (Seriously. ANet nerfed PU Mesmer, and for some reason thought it was a good idea to add something that has even MORE stealth than that?)
Remove reflect from electro whirl. (If it’s going to hit for 3400 & be a finisher ON A 6 SECOND COOLDOWN, it doesn’t need reflect)

Delete recovery matrix, switch out with something offensive. Hell if I know what.

And that I think is a reasonable start.

Ofc, I think its damage needs to be adjusted. But A LOT of classes need their damage adjusted.

SlayerSixx.5763:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

SlayerSixx.5763:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

And jesus… TF2… This game…
This game with crappy balance issues, and a competitive community that had to create special rules to even deal with the balance issues.

Oi woah woah woah. There aren’t any serious balance issues with TF2 since the last update.

Everybody has told me that after every TF2 balance patch.
Those patches I have waited YEARS for. Which doesn’t even compare to the mere months I’m waiting in GW2.

But lets look at the competitive 6v6 rules.

You’re allowed 2 of every class EXCEPT Engineer, Medic, Demoman, and Heavy.

Do you know why?

Because 2 well placed sentry turrets are that strong.
2 ubers are that strong.
2 demomans are that strong.
2 heavies are that strong.

TF2 has a serious issue with character stacking. Far more serious than GW2 currently does.

You can beat a 2 rev/2 chrono/2 ele team setup without resorting to using the same thing.
We saw it in the EU ESL, and that was pre nerf.

Good luck beating a double engineer setup or a double medic setup in TF2 without doing similar setups.

Highlander rules are of course 1 of every class.

So, you were saying?
Oh god, they balanced certain weapons to make them side grades! Woopty-freaking-doo.

Double engi is easy. One spy and one demo.

Double heavy is easy. All you need is one competent spy or sniper and its practically GG.

Double demoman and double medic is a bit of an issue (I only play demoman and spy), especially if the demoman duo can aim. Double medic is a little less daunting than double demo, since a good spy or sniper can alleviate your issues.

Assuming PUGs, I can literally stall the entire enemy team on my own using my demo, so there’s that :P.

That’s being said, regardless of the ridiculousness of certain team comps, TF2 is STILL fun to play at w.e level you choose to play at. GW2, on the other hand (at least in it’s current state), not so much :P.

Disagree on a lot of levels.
“Double engi is easy. One spy and one demo.”
1. Good luck on spy. You’ll die quickly. The engies only have a grand total of 2 things to do. Whack the sentry, kill the spy. And they have the perfect long range spy killing weapon with infinite ammo…
2. Demo can deal with 1 sentry really well, 2 well placed ones? Nah.

Double demo/double medic is the answer.

“Double heavy is easy. All you need is one competent spy or sniper and its practically GG.”
This requires the sniper to get a fully charged snipe on the heavy, or to get a reasonably charged headshot on the heavy while he’s taking a lot of damage.

Or for a spy to get a good chain kill (Very unlikely in competitive).

I think a sniper is a reasonable answer, but it also depends on the map, and how well the rest of the sniper’s team can deal with the demo/soldier (Not sure whether you’d swap 1 of your soldiers, or your scout for a second heavy. Kind of a toss up as to which one you switch out for it)

“That’s being said, regardless of the ridiculousness of certain team comps, TF2 is STILL fun to play at w.e level you choose to play at.”

Disagree.
1. Because the game’s dead outside of Valve servers. Since everything else is pretty much trade/achievement servers.
2. Because the imbalances are so freaking blatant at the pug level, it’s not even funny.

Even you admitted this.

There’s only 2 real levels you can play the game at.
Man vs Machine is kind of fun for the first run through. But after that it’s dull.

So you’re left with pug, which is in a state of death.
And competitive, which is also in a state of death.

Is all of them a valid answer?

Seriously, drop Daredevil in any past meta and see how hard it wrecks things while evading everything thrown its direction.
Or hell, reaper…

I’d like to scale everything back by a large amount, and have longer (meaningful) fights.

SlayerSixx.5763:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

And jesus… TF2… This game…
This game with crappy balance issues, and a competitive community that had to create special rules to even deal with the balance issues.

Oi woah woah woah. There aren’t any serious balance issues with TF2 since the last update.

Everybody has told me that after every TF2 balance patch.
Those patches I have waited YEARS for. Which doesn’t even compare to the mere months I’m waiting in GW2.

But lets look at the competitive 6v6 rules.

You’re allowed 2 of every class EXCEPT Engineer, Medic, Demoman, and Heavy.

Do you know why?

Because 2 well placed sentry turrets are that strong.
2 ubers are that strong.
2 demomans are that strong.
2 heavies are that strong.

TF2 has a serious issue with character stacking. Far more serious than GW2 currently does.

You can beat a 2 rev/2 chrono/2 ele team setup without resorting to using the same thing.
We saw it in the EU ESL, and that was pre nerf.

Good luck beating a double engineer setup or a double medic setup in TF2 without doing similar setups.

Highlander rules are of course 1 of every class.

So, you were saying?
Oh god, they balanced certain weapons to make them side grades! Woopty-freaking-doo.

Zodian.6597:

Yeah.. lots of people crowded around bank and TP vendors, or running to LA portal.. They made it an appealing place for the PvE crowd, the actual number of people queueing sPvP is abysmal.

So you mean it’s exactly like its always been then?

WhiteRabbit.6931:

Drayos.8759:

tbh, im NGL the yelling of Game state, overpowered flaws and abused mechanics exist is every game not just Anet or guild Wars 2, Every games population screams chants and curses against this on every forum known to man, people act as if every other game is more balanced in gw2 which no it isnt, every game has FoTMs every game Breaks New releases and Every game Deletes random proffessions/classes/heroes/champions/gods from the meta on a daily bases.

the thing is, in Alot of the pvp games today, consist of MoBAs, which forces 5 different playstyles in every match, this prevents tanks or a specific role overtaking the Entire PvP Scenes, which makes it much more Noticable in a MMORPG, now ofcourse u have WoW who equally unbalance classes based on the current fotms, but they Do NOT try to turn this pvp scene into a MoBAs, arenas are 2v2s 3v3s and 5v5s, where everyone pro-claims 3v3s to be the balancing mark.

At the end of the day every month in WoW there is the New 3 Proffession combo in another league to every other, theres consist QQ on each class on each month for being the top, there are the same amount of classes ignored for entire expansions (Look at Spriests in MOP, Look at paladins from WoTLK – WoD).

a More Prompt reasoning to why flaming is common is Because, its TOO EASY TO FOTM REROLL.

at the end of the day at any point i can roll out a level 1 proffession take it into PvP and be auto levelled to 80 with Same stats etc etc as any other player and SPVP with it, in SPVP theres no physically progression in your character its ALL given to you, which means the Loyalty to ur Main proffession is Much much more fragile then any other game on the market.

Sadly, GW2 will be forever locked down into two ideas.

1) they’ll take this Platform away, add a vendor into the SPVPs and u’ll earn gold per kill etc etc and build ur proffession each game in PvP, thus meaning OP proffessions can be lcoked down earlier while weaker to stop them becoming as OP as they are in their full forms.

2) it’ll ignore this consistency, keep it exactly how it is and we’ll forever QQ on the fact of how OP specific things are because EVERYONE rerolls it with 0 Work put into it

the balance isnt the problem, the ease of rerolling in the SPVP world is Simply to easy. account wide Achieving is what mainly causes this, being able to swap ascended across to any of ur chars, all chars have the same MMR set by uyr total play not ur proffession play.

Sadly things become so much more drastically out of control cause we all just make level 1s of every proffession and Insta level them with tomes as we earn them through continously PvPing, We dont ever have to leave HoTM.

Aion is pretty balanced compared to GW2, and there others aswell… But full balance you never get in mmo, only in fps games…

“only in fps games”

Wow. Someone hasn’t played FPS games competitively.
Name one that didn’t/doesn’t have a meta game?

I’ll give you a hint.
A LOT rides on the 2nd round in Counter Strike.

And jesus… TF2… This game…
This game with crappy balance issues, and a competitive community that had to create special rules to even deal with the balance issues.

Is this the part where someone says Overwatch? A game that hasn’t even come out yet, and hasn’t had the time put into it to truly figure out the meta?

WhiteRabbit.6931:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Block has counters.
It’s actually completely fine in the game… And most blocks don’t even last that long… 5 seconds at the most…

It doesnt matter! It needs to go!!! Make use of ur dodge like game was intended!!!

With that logic.
Delete blinks, stun breaks, kittening everything fun in the game.

Make use of your dodge and move speed like the game was intended!

Blocks not only have counters, they also have cooldowns.
Blocks are healthy for the game.

Hell, very short, infrequent invulns are healthy for the game.

They’re just one more way to answer classes that put all of their burst upfront.

There’s nothing fundamentally flawed with these ideas.
There’s nothing in the game that says they’re not intended.

Harvey.7820:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Harvey.7820:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Vieux P.1238:

Mark my words.. This game is going to DIE before next expansion comes out!

Silly human, MMOs don’t die. They just get remade.

They just become Aion, Rift, SWTOR, Wildstar, Archangel, etc.. They become a conglomerate glob of available MMOs on the market that only a tiny population continue to play because they’ve already invested so much into the game and are unwilling to let it go.

GW2 had the potential to topple WoW’s waning popularity. It got so many things right. Dodge roll, action combat, unparalleled art team, B2P business model, gear neutralization in PvP, World vs World. So many things they did so right but with HoT it just seems they’ve become further and further removed from their vision of what GW2 should be and what made it great in the first place and more and more focused on Gem Store, paywalls, grind walls, time gates.

I mean, why was the Esports direction even taken?? It was the marketing guys who thought it would be a good idea, not the developer’s original vision when GW2 launched. Any company that lets its marketing team run the final decision will get exactly what Anet has on its hands right now: a bitter playerbase that feels it’s been alienated and exploited for money while the company no longer has the player’s best interests in mind.

GW2 feels a lot more about how I can help fund Anet as a company than how much fun I’m having in the game. The immersion is leaving and along with it the playerbase.

Will GW2 die? Probably not, will it join the mass of MMOs that nobody cares about anymore and slowly withers away as its disgruntled veterans move on to other games?

My fear is that it already has.

sigh

“should be and what made it great in the first place and more and more focused on Gem Store, paywalls, grind walls, time gates.”

Gem Store <— The gem store focus is minimal now. They’ve largely just done mild reskins. Compared TO THE LITERAL 3 YEARS OF RESKINS WE’VE HAD

paywalls <— It’s an expansion, what the hell were you expecting?

grind walls <— The player base has asked FOR 3 YEARS NOW, TO HAVE ACTUAL END GAME GRINDING

time gates <— A natural part of end game grinding, and a reason to take a break from a CASUAL MMO

why was the Esports direction even taken? <— It was taken decades ago, they’ve been hosting tournaments for a while now.

Edit:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/check-out-the-esl-guild-wars-2-opening-cup-finals-this-sunday/

So your sentiment is that nothing is wrong or out of ordinary right now in the current state of GW2? Is that honestly what you’re trying to preach?

My sentiment is that half of the kitten you guys are whining about, are things we’ve asked for.

We asked, pleaded, and begged for an expansion. As the game wasn’t keeping people interested with the living story.
Complaining that a kittening expansion costs money is ridiculous. Of course it costs money.

And all of the theory crafting that Elite specs were made OP because sell lotta copies lolololol.
NO GAME GETS THIS RIGHT THE FIRST TIME!

Do you know how IMBA WoW was when Death Knight was released?
Or how IMBA every new character released in LoL is?

The Gem Store is fine. Again, really haven’t seen anything that would soak up significant dev time there.

Grind walls & time gates seem pretty fine to me right now.
They told us ahead of time that to complete the guild halls & etc would take months.

The meta? Yeah, the meta is IMBA atm. And? Again, name a game that doesn’t have this issue?

The frequency of patches? At least we have a schedule now, vs never knowing if they’re going to do anything at all.

The focus on ESports? If you haven’t noticed, Espuuurrttttzzzz is about the only reason WoW has any following now-a-days. 3v3 arena. Which, btw, is the most boring as hell thing to watch. At least 20x worse than GW2 currently is. They pumped money into being E-Sports because they know that’s what will keep this game from fading into oblivion like many before it.

The league system? We’ve asked for MMR to be visible. Now that it is, you’re all QQ’ing because it didn’t work out like you wanted. Is it perfect? Hell no. There’s a laundry list of things they could do better.

The only game mode actually broken atm, is WvW.
And frankly, that probably would be fine, if the elite specs actually changed anything about the meta in WvW.
But no, you have your same old GWEN armies slamming their kittens together.