Guild Wars 2

Thelgar.7214:

This is the the greatest degradation of skilled play I’ve seen suggested on the forums.

I don’t know that an arrow would really change the skill level any more than the actual, you know, large dorito you end up following anyway.

That bus kind of already came and went.

Dahkeus.8243:

Does it really matter if it makes sense to you? Is it really as hard to try and not use that word as it is to eliminate all references to guns and knives?

Yes, actually. In fact, it’s harder.
You can’t get rid of a word on the internet.

The internet is a mosh pit. You’re trying to cordon off a section of that mosh pit and say “You’re not allowed to mosh here”.

For that, I wish you good luck.

Personally, I’ma keep moshing. And if you get bumped into, you knew the risks.

However, if someone in the mosh pit goes out of their way after bumping into you to attack you, feel free to call the authorities.

Nobody likes moshing with those types anyway.

Roxanne.6140:

You are thinking too much hun. The tag flew out of my screen not because of lag but just with normal movement and movement skills.

Oh I get what you’re saying.

Sorry, I’m so used to dealing with a guy from Australia as a commander that I thought you meant lag.

Yeah, an optional arrow to show the direction to the tag wouldn’t be that bad.

Sounds like the server is trying to correct the clients for your interpolated position, due to either packet loss, or high latency.

As such, showing an arrow where the commander is going would accomplish nothing, because the direction you’re jumping to is effectively “where you’re going” to the client.

Clients get data on your position & direction, interpolate from there, and then if they don’t get the next update they expect, things get a bit screwy.

An arrow would also be screwy, just like your position is.

The best they could do is try to rework their calculations and smooth out the teleporting & jumps a bit more.

Jayne.9251:

I did a lot of research, thanks for the feedback in this thread.

I wound up settling for an i7 7700K, with 1080 and 40G ram. The ryzen benchmarks on everything I read still couldn’t compete with the i7, specifically for this type of gaming software that doesn’t take advantage of multiple cores. The AMD processor does look good as an office workhorse though.

I get it in a week. It’s going to be a loooong week. I’m anxious to see if the graphics and the processor make any discernible difference in WvW.

Bit overkill on the RAM to be honest.

Unless you’re doing rendering on the side, in which case, carry on.

i7 7700k was a good choice. I always want to like AMD, but even for mid-tier specs for gaming it’s tough to recommend them.

melcor.1094:

The positions in this thread are very different/ extreme. But verity often lies in the middle. Aside from that i don`t see any good reason to insult or trashtalk each other over this, however guild wars was always good for some drama…

I think the guide jazz man pulled out is a very good review about the mirage in the current state, impartial showing some pros and conts without getting kitten and without any ego issues. Always felt well-adviced by his mesmer videos even though he is focusing on powerbuilds and not meta.

Just my two cents.

Hey man, if you can’t trash talk then PvP games might not be for you.

That’s like, half the fun.

And honestly, if you’ve been playing Mesmer since before HoT, you can handle anything anyone dishes out.

Because you’re a masochist.

That’s what playing PvP on pre-HoT mesmer was. Masochism.

Dahkeus.8243:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

xikira.3264:

being forced to read it as an off hand joke.

I too cringe at the idea of strapping a person to a chair, taping their eyelids open, using a holster to keep their head still, and forcing them to recite line for line jokes about the R word.

Thankfully that doesn’t generally happen, and it’s just some easily ignorable text on the bottom left of the screen that can even be turned off.

Yea, it’s pretty easy to ignore when it’s never happened to you.

Oh, look who’s making assumptions about people.

And it’s not even me.

You’re telling me to tip toe around victims that, frankly, might not even be there at the moment.

Because you don’t believe they have the mental strength to handle a joke.

You’re victimizing them twice with your condescending virtue signaling.

And believe me, that’s ALL you’re doing. Trying to appear virtuous over something that is so trivial to avoid a 5 year old could figure it out.

Hint: Don’t disable the in game profanity filter. Or just turn chat off altogether.

I actually recommend the latter, chat is often full of stupid people anyway.

xikira.3264:

being forced to read it as an off hand joke.

I too cringe at the idea of strapping a person to a chair, taping their eyelids open, using a holster to keep their head still, and forcing them to recite line for line jokes about the R word.

Thankfully that doesn’t generally happen, and it’s just some easily ignorable text on the bottom left of the screen that can even be turned off.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Strider Pj.2193:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

I thought wvwers play for fun and not rewards? who cares about tickets right?

That is correct. Hope you have a good day!

thats funny because what I see is that once everyone finishes diamond chest by Sunday, all of wvw completely clears out, because they got their rewards.

Different guilds have different raiding days. And it’s very rare that a guild raids every single day.

However, virtually every guild raids on the weekend because it’s the freaking weekend.

Not to mention NA players get to play with EU players on Saturday and Sunday, which really bolsters numbers in the early hours.

It’s less about the rewards, and more about the inconvenience of raiding during weekdays.

AmberUK.5380:

Come on guys its 2017, and we are trying to get women gaming aren’t we?

I couldn’t possibly be more indifferent about this if I tried.

If women game, it’s whatever. If they don’t, it’s also whatever.

People that think we should treat them differently from everyone else are the real problem.

That would be you in case you’re not catching what I’m throwing there, buckaroo.

Junkpile.7439:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Junkpile.7439:

Well you can’t dodge thief first attack. First backstab is instant straight from stealth.

Said thief has already blown most of his action points, or shadow refuge, to pull that off without you seeing it coming.

If you saw a thief suddenly go invisible, you can pretty much assume he’s coming for you, and throw up a block.

Most thieves aren’t carrying around 20 seconds of stealth anymore.

Hell, tbh. Most of the thieves I’ve fought aren’t even wearing zerkers gear anymore. Backstabbing isn’t as stupidly amazing as it used to be.

As for the discussion, everyone runs tanky as hell now-a-days. Why are you trying to make that even worse?

I literally sat in a 15 man group’s bomb yesterday questioning “where is the damage”. I’ll tell you where it was, non-existent. They were just melee training and killing all the scrubs that don’t know how to dodge, and are running PvE gear.

The only class I even remotely fear in this game is a reaper, and that’s only because of all the boon corruption.

I don’t have blocks. So should i use mistform straight after thief go stealth?

If you’re using staff, throw down a static field on yourself. Or your fire staff 2 to damage him when he comes in. I’d suggest using about face a lot to try and make him stab your face.

If you’re using dagger focus or dagger dagger you should already know what to do.

And if you’re using a scepter, just accept your fate as the thief kills you.

Curunen.8729:

I wouldn’t want more ground targeting (already awkward enough to find suitable keybinds for jaunt, blink and things like chaos storm/temporal curtain).

But I’m all in favour of a mechanic that allows some ability for tactics and mind games with the mirrors.

You mean you don’t have a mouse with like. 40 extra buttons like everyone else?

Junkpile.7439:

Well you can’t dodge thief first attack. First backstab is instant straight from stealth.

Said thief has already blown most of his action points, or shadow refuge, to pull that off without you seeing it coming.

If you saw a thief suddenly go invisible, you can pretty much assume he’s coming for you, and throw up a block.

Most thieves aren’t carrying around 20 seconds of stealth anymore.

Hell, tbh. Most of the thieves I’ve fought aren’t even wearing zerkers gear anymore. Backstabbing isn’t as stupidly amazing as it used to be.

As for the discussion, everyone runs tanky as hell now-a-days. Why are you trying to make that even worse?

I literally sat in a 15 man group’s bomb yesterday questioning “where is the damage”. I’ll tell you where it was, non-existent. They were just melee training and killing all the scrubs that don’t know how to dodge, and are running PvE gear.

The only class I even remotely fear in this game is a reaper, and that’s only because of all the boon corruption.

At that rate, save yourself the effort, give me 2 extra dodges, and change all the mirage mirror spawning crap to just give me 25% of my gauge filled (an extra dodge).

Really I’m just going the simplest route with that. As I honestly think they either need to commit to the mechanic wholesale, or drop it entirely for something else.

And if they committed to it wholesale, imo it would play too similar to Scourge.

So they should probably just drop it.

Edit:
Although it doesn’t have to play similar to scourge at all. But I don’t think they would ever go with any of the off the wall kitten ideas I could come up with for the mirrors.

A 10.x address is probably your ISP, tbh. A cable modem termination system.

Can’t explain the rest, I have no clue what your logs look like. Probably just you hitting a server that gets you a better route, and for whatever reason you’re capturing the 10.x traffic only for that route.

kdaddy.5431:

Gliding effects the way fighting is done in WvW. The immersion of zergs fighting in a tower/keep with players able to either glide into a fight or away takes away from many aspects of WvW.

It takes virtually nothing away, and only added something new to it.

The only strategy I can think that was seriously effected by this, is putting a flame ram at the top of stairs in a keep or SMC. Since they can glide right past the stairs and on top of you.

Which, in case you didn’t know, is a strategy you can easily punish a group for.

They’re gliding in on top of you? Bomb the hell out of them before they’ve all landed. You can kill many of them before they can get the stab they need to fight back.

Also, can we be real here? The long time WvW players, the ones you call “dedicated”, freaking hate towers & keeps. They also hate being out numbered.

The reason why the Desert BLs hurt WvW so much, was because there wasn’t many nice open areas to fight in.

Also because the Desert BLs were too large.

For instance new upgrades or choices for keeps or towers, new weapons or defense/sustain/offensive tactics.

Yeah, I really doubt you’re a big WvW player. Everyone I know absolutely hates “siege humping”. It even has a derogatory phrase for it, lol.

Putting a freaking AC down in an open field literally draws hatred from your allies. Including me, go back to EoTM with that crap.

Running venoms with your necro’s wells was one of the most taboo hated things you could do in WvW.

Long time WvW players have essentially wanted a competitive 15v15 mode where they can fight to their hearts content.

Oh, while a lot of them simultaneously want that system to place them only against teams they can defeat. Wouldn’t want to hurt anyone’s egos.

HoT did usher in an era of boon corrupt & condi spam though. And with scourge coming in PoF, I think that’s only going to get worse. Lol.

ANet: Here’s a supporting Necro spec

Everyone else: Uhmmm, it literally corrupts boons just by walking next to the enemy team with desert shroud on. THAT is your idea of a support spec????

Of all the specs that I expect to be adjusted before launch.

Mirage isn’t one of them.

In my honest opinion, Mirage is lacking a “glue” to hold all the pieces together. Ambushes try to be that glue, but come in a quite a bit short of that goal.

I expect Firebrand’s tomes will be adjusted to be usable on launch. Holosmith will probably see some dialing back on numbers. Scourge will hopefully see some dialing back on its boon corruption (It’s god tier in WvW imo)

Mirage & Weaver are going to take quite a while to fix in comparison to the rest.

Mirage can sort of be patched up with straight up buffs to ambushes, but I don’t know if ANet will go that route.

My only worry with this, is I’ve had a lot of fun gliding into combat on top of zergs, surprising the hell out of them, and wrecking them.

Gliding actually makes defending Inner & Outer SM a lot easier.

So if they made it to where “you can’t glide in combat”, then that dive bomb tactic would be suicide, since anyone attacking you in the air would put you “in combat”.

If they did go this route, I hope they would go the route of “you can’t start gliding while in combat”.

Even then, I don’t know that gliding away is that big of an issue. Running away is already pretty trivial with the amount of stability & swiftness in the game.

SkyShroud.2865:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

SkyShroud.2865:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

SkyShroud.2865:

LOL. You didn’t know what tz we run then maybe you should do research? As for gvg? We did scrim with mgr, ahma, rf, late etc. Well, obviously not the same tz as [RD]. You really need to do research instead of embarrassing yourself with your limited knowledge.

If you got any more defensive a turtle would out pace you.

And I quote myself:
“That advice isn’t necessarily directed at you, it’s just in general if someone on HoD wants to learn how to run as an organized group.”

I was stating things in general, and using you as an “example”.

As for your time zone, you’re Signapore. So I said “I assume you’re close to dawn’s tz”.

I don’t actually care about your guild, bro. It was generic advice, take it, put it in a pipe, and smoke it.

You use “me” as a example, as a what example? Furthermore, you recommend [RD]? Erm…

Honestly speaking, none of my members like to follow [RD]. Likewise, an player from EU server who has UD title and occasionally runs with us time to run with his alt don’t like to follow [RD] either. It is bad advise, very very bad advise. Go do some research.

I used “you” as an example in that I said “You can do this”. That was it. That was the example. It wasn’t meant to implicate anything about you or your guild.

As for “Honestly speaking, none of my members like to follow [RD].”.

Means nothing to me.

Don’t like to follow [RD] because…….?

Because he prefers fights over PPT? I can understand that.

Because he’ll take very uneven fights and it can be demoralizing? I can understand that, but will judge you anyway.

Because he’s not a particularly nice person? I can say that about most of the leadership in this game.

Because he hates pugs? Most people do.

Because he and his group are bad at the game? I disagree.

I will PM you why.

Cool. I’m down to read it when I get off work.

SkyShroud.2865:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

SkyShroud.2865:

LOL. You didn’t know what tz we run then maybe you should do research? As for gvg? We did scrim with mgr, ahma, rf, late etc. Well, obviously not the same tz as [RD]. You really need to do research instead of embarrassing yourself with your limited knowledge.

If you got any more defensive a turtle would out pace you.

And I quote myself:
“That advice isn’t necessarily directed at you, it’s just in general if someone on HoD wants to learn how to run as an organized group.”

I was stating things in general, and using you as an “example”.

As for your time zone, you’re Signapore. So I said “I assume you’re close to dawn’s tz”.

I don’t actually care about your guild, bro. It was generic advice, take it, put it in a pipe, and smoke it.

You use “me” as a example, as a what example? Furthermore, you recommend [RD]? Erm…

Honestly speaking, none of my members like to follow [RD]. Likewise, an player from EU server who has UD title and occasionally runs with us time to run with his alt don’t like to follow [RD] either. It is bad advise, very very bad advise. Go do some research.

I used “you” as an example in that I said “You can do this”. That was it. That was the example. It wasn’t meant to implicate anything about you or your guild.

As for “Honestly speaking, none of my members like to follow [RD].”.

Means nothing to me.

Don’t like to follow [RD] because…….?

Because he prefers fights over PPT? I can understand that.

Because he’ll take very uneven fights and it can be demoralizing? I can understand that, but will judge you anyway.

Because he’s not a particularly nice person? I can say that about most of the leadership in this game.

Because he hates pugs? Most people do.

Because he and his group are bad at the game? I disagree.

Yeah, tbh 2 guards to every group is pretty important too. Having 2 bursts of stab that you can call for & rotate is essential for longer fights (Not to mention purging flames). Especially with all the boon corrupt.

I don’t know if I would demand a rev swap off for it in a zerg tho, but ehhh~.

Metabattle is “okay”. (Most guilds I know of have their own builds that they run)

But if you’re going to run a metabattle build, you’ll undoubtedly want to run tankier stats than they do.

Like I was saying for example, marauders on their front line revenant build? You’ll die if you’re not experienced. Sort of a trial by fire.

You might incorporate some nomads gear, for instance, to some of their builds. That way you can get quite a bit beefier, and scale back into marauders or whatever as you get more comfortable.

And the tankier gear will probably never be useless, since there are some times you might just have to run it to survive in some situations.

SkyShroud.2865:

LOL. You didn’t know what tz we run then maybe you should do research? As for gvg? We did scrim with mgr, ahma, rf, late etc. Well, obviously not the same tz as [RD]. You really need to do research instead of embarrassing yourself with your limited knowledge.

If you got any more defensive a turtle would out pace you.

And I quote myself:
“That advice isn’t necessarily directed at you, it’s just in general if someone on HoD wants to learn how to run as an organized group.”

I was stating things in general, and using you as an “example”.

As for your time zone, you’re Signapore. So I said “I assume you’re close to dawn’s tz”.

I don’t actually care about your guild, bro. It was generic advice, take it, put it in a pipe, and smoke it.

Edit: In retrospect, this was an overly harsh way to try and clarify something I belived was a misinterpretation of my statements.

And for that, I apologize.

TheDevilWithinU.7092:

A majority of guilds these days aren’t willing to learn though. They generally want things handed to them. Nor will they even dare trying to GvG guilds that are way better than them. Over the past couple months I know KEK and BoRP have both tried and a lot of guilds just flat out would say no because they didn’t want to lose.

I’m not surprised, to be honest.

HoD is full of blow hards that complain endlessly about there being no good players, yet do nothing about it.

I’m sure we’re not the only server with this problem.

“I’ve supported this server for years”.

“Yeah but, what have you actually done over those years?”

It’s when you test them that they tuck tail and run. A smoke show, nothing more.

SkyShroud.2865:

McGodd.9427:

SniffyCube.6107:

Years ago, a list like this would be relevant, but now the experienced players have pooled into 1-3 guilds and that pool will probably become smaller with time.

Atm, imo, the best guilds are kek or borp and then when those guilds break apart, it’ll be whichever guild those same players have gone into. It used to be a huge list and a very spread out list when this game was actually alive, but at this point it’s the same names under a different guild.

Maybe those guilds will continue to stockpile the more experienced players and run 25 – 30 deep gvg veterans. Why not? You can’t fault people for playing with their friends. Everyone likes steamrolling. ..Maybe they’ll break apart into smaller guilds and try to train new people… who knows, but I don’t see the competitive scene reviving itself anytime soon. Not the way things are going, and it’s pretty hard to pick up pugs and try to build a core with them. Combine that with how badly everyone memes on guilds trying to build… not many make it.

Also, the “rest” of our guilds all have footage of us dumpstering each other at one point in time. It’s pretty hard to tell at this point who is the better guild. Maybe over the course of the year certain guilds happened to come out on top more often than not? Everyone here has had a kitten day or two. I’m not sure what the litmus test is, but if this is a purely open field guide then I know for a fact I’ve killed almost everyone on this list at one point or another and have been killed by most at least once. It’s pretty much impossible to get an objective view at this point.

All that being said, VII has always been fun fights. As have the rest of you. All we can really do now is go down with the ship as we get 1 new thing added to WvW every 4-6 months in the hopes that we all stay interested enough to keep playing.

TLDR: Same kitten different day.

jul… xxx Julian xxx, you got kicked 5 months ago. let it go.

Hey, I’m the leader of BoRP. I think you have a very unclear view of what kind of guild we are, what we’ve done, and who we are. In our roster we have about six people out of 28 that anybody would consider ‘old GvG veterans.’ Almost all of us are competitively-minded players from different parts of the game that came together with a positive attitude and a willingness to improve. We’ve trained from scratch about 90% of our current roster and continue to accept players from every part of the game that have a decent mechanical level and a good attitude. One of the best players in our guild came from TORK.

A competitive game mode needs people at a high level and people at a mid level. A lot of people have this misconception that every top guild needs to disband for there to be a viable scene; but the truth is that if that happens then there’s nobody to drive progression. The GvGs and open field fights BoRP had against KEK throughout HoT pushed both guild’s members as both players and theory crafters, leading to a much more refined meta in NA.

I’ve gotten pretty tired of uninformed people saying this repeatedly and have felt like it invalidates all the hard work my guild members have put in for the last year, so I apologize if my post comes off as aggressive.

I think he meant that he feels most top guilds didn’t start from complete fresh players but rather experienced players from retired guilds, moving to a same new guild and bringing those knowledge to only that new guild. Therefore the number of competitive guilds are limited due to limited spread of knowledge.

First of all, he said a very small portion of his guild are “old GvG vets”.

Second of all. Spread of knowledge? A lot of the knowledge is right out there to grab if you’re willing to go out there and grab it.

Or, if you don’t feel like you can quite grasp it on your own, I can’t say [RD] – Redemption is as good as [BoRP] by any means, but they’re on HoD and they run pretty similar to how I’m used to organized groups running. Minus some call outs for cool downs like wells, etc.

You’re pretty much in Dawn’s time zone from what I can tell, why don’t you see if you can run with them in their discord and pick up their skills and then expand from there?

That advice isn’t necessarily directed at you, it’s just in general if someone on HoD wants to learn how to run as an organized group.

Or, for that matter, if anyone wants to learn as an organized group.

Just run with other organized groups on your sever, take what you think they did right, and incorporate it. Expand on it.

And most importantly. Run practice drills. Both to warm up when you’re in WvW, and to just generally practice.

And don’t be afraid to accept GvGs from anyone. If you lose, you lose. If you win in a stomp, you win in a stomp. Either way, someone’s learning something.

McGodd.9427:

SniffyCube.6107:

Years ago, a list like this would be relevant, but now the experienced players have pooled into 1-3 guilds and that pool will probably become smaller with time.

Atm, imo, the best guilds are kek or borp and then when those guilds break apart, it’ll be whichever guild those same players have gone into. It used to be a huge list and a very spread out list when this game was actually alive, but at this point it’s the same names under a different guild.

Maybe those guilds will continue to stockpile the more experienced players and run 25 – 30 deep gvg veterans. Why not? You can’t fault people for playing with their friends. Everyone likes steamrolling. ..Maybe they’ll break apart into smaller guilds and try to train new people… who knows, but I don’t see the competitive scene reviving itself anytime soon. Not the way things are going, and it’s pretty hard to pick up pugs and try to build a core with them. Combine that with how badly everyone memes on guilds trying to build… not many make it.

Also, the “rest” of our guilds all have footage of us dumpstering each other at one point in time. It’s pretty hard to tell at this point who is the better guild. Maybe over the course of the year certain guilds happened to come out on top more often than not? Everyone here has had a kitten day or two. I’m not sure what the litmus test is, but if this is a purely open field guide then I know for a fact I’ve killed almost everyone on this list at one point or another and have been killed by most at least once. It’s pretty much impossible to get an objective view at this point.

All that being said, VII has always been fun fights. As have the rest of you. All we can really do now is go down with the ship as we get 1 new thing added to WvW every 4-6 months in the hopes that we all stay interested enough to keep playing.

TLDR: Same kitten different day.

jul… xxx Julian xxx, you got kicked 5 months ago. let it go.

Hey, I’m the leader of BoRP. I think you have a very unclear view of what kind of guild we are, what we’ve done, and who we are. In our roster we have about six people out of 28 that anybody would consider ‘old GvG veterans.’ Almost all of us are competitively-minded players from different parts of the game that came together with a positive attitude and a willingness to improve. We’ve trained from scratch about 90% of our current roster and continue to accept players from every part of the game that have a decent mechanical level and a good attitude. One of the best players in our guild came from TORK.

A competitive game mode needs people at a high level and people at a mid level. A lot of people have this misconception that every top guild needs to disband for there to be a viable scene; but the truth is that if that happens then there’s nobody to drive progression. The GvGs and open field fights BoRP had against KEK throughout HoT pushed both guild’s members as both players and theory crafters, leading to a much more refined meta in NA.

I’ve gotten pretty tired of uninformed people saying this repeatedly and have felt like it invalidates all the hard work my guild members have put in for the last year, so I apologize if my post comes off as aggressive.

Hey! Aren’t you Veridian the guy who lead Woe?

If so, I can quite easily vouch for this just from the Woe days. Everyone was always super willing to work and help each other back on Ehmry bay when I was playing with you guys.

I’m sure that hasn’t changed at all, honestly. You can’t expect to pull in veteran players if you don’t build an environment that is attractive to veteran players first.

Revenant is actually really powerful in the current meta, and you should probably ignore those guys.

Since they’re asking for guards, they probably keep getting their stab corrupted.

So my suggestion? Dwarf/Mallyx, start the fight with bricks from dwarf, swap to mallyx and use pain absorb when the condis fly.

If your commander has half a brain, he’ll call for pain absorb. If he doesn’t, you’ll just have to wing it like I do on mesmer 90% of the time.

Speaking about a zerg. Guard/Rev/Necro are indeed the MVPs. Mesmers can bring a lot too with their support and boon ripping. It really just depends on the commander though.

Everyone says “Stay away from thieves”, but I’ve been part of a small group that just ate apart a zerg from behind while the 2 zergs went back and forth.

If you’re going to play thief in a zerg, you should do it as an organized group of thieves with voice chat, and pick apart zerg’s tails. You can turn quite a few fights for your server into your favor doing that.

Just don’t expect to get any “thank yous” for it. Nobody likes you, everyone hates your class, and they all think you do absolutely nothing.

Edit:
Oh, and as an aside. Don’t run metabattle builds with their suggested stats.

Frontline sustain herald with Marauders? You’ll die if you’re not a god with your class.
Run tankier stats, you’ll thank me later.

Nah. I’m actually considering rolling a Scourge right now. Really powerful for large scale WvW. Literally just use your desert shroud and walk through blobs, and you’ll just boon corrupt all along the way.

Seriously, the amount of boon corrupt that spec brings out is absolute freaking insanity.

And it doesn’t even just corrupt boons into their relative condition. No no no. Every single boon gets converted into a damaging condition.

Absolutely monstrous.

What were we talking about again? Oh, yeah. Mesmers getting crap for an elite spec and whether or not we’d quit.

Seriously guys, if you’re considering quitting, just respec.

Firebrand & Scourge are a lot of fun, and can remind you of a mesmer in a lot of ways.

And neither suffer from the plethora of problems Mesmer have for ages.

Although, I will remind everyone that with PoF it’s my understanding that all of the core trait lines are supposed to be redone a bit in order to generate barrier.

So Mesmers might end up with something fresh to play anyway.

Frostball.9108:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Frostball.9108:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Frostball.9108:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Frostball.9108:

Refia Montes.3205:

Frostball.9108:

Levetty.1279:

Since you don’t explain why I am forced to presume you are wrong and everybody else is right.

Mirage enables things you normally couldnt do, like stack 20 confusion on enemies with cover conditions without trouble whilst still having good options for survivability.

Except Condi Chrono can do that too. With Moa, CS split condi burst it’s possible.

I said without trouble. And with chrono youre not going to be able to survive nearly as well.

In what scenario are you talking about?

PvE?

sPvP?

WvW roaming?

WvW zergs?

The only scenario I would agree that the weaver would survive easier is that last one, a blob in WvW. All the dodging, stun breaks and movement abilities of the Weaver make it a lot easier to survive in a zerg if you’re caught out.

But I wouldn’t run a weaver in a zerg. It brings nothing to a zerg. It’s incredibly selfish, and simultaneously missing the kill & finishing potential of a daredevil.

Im talking of mirage and specifically spvp since i do not play in other areas of the game.

Then you’re probably just bad at chrono, to be completely honest.

Feel free to check my gameplay on twitch. Ive played in multiple top teams in the past, as anyone relevant in the scene would know. twitch.tv/frostball99

Literally means nothing to me. Especially in this game, where the competition has mostly quit.

“I was in a top team in a dead competitive scene”

In the past, as in when it was not indecent to have hope for the games pvp scene. Anyhow since you didnt recognise me to begin with its probably pointless to explain.

Oh. In the past, as in not recent and not relevant anymore, but you feel the need to bring it up anyway as some sort of “credentials”.

This is kind of like a homeless man bragging about how he was a CEO of a fortune 500 company once.

Look man, you’re probably better than me at the game.

I just don’t see much in the current mirage spec other than the loads of evasion.

Which to me, is complete overkill for sPvP. And really brings up the question of “Why not just roll a daredevil”.

Frostball.9108:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Frostball.9108:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Frostball.9108:

Refia Montes.3205:

Frostball.9108:

Levetty.1279:

Since you don’t explain why I am forced to presume you are wrong and everybody else is right.

Mirage enables things you normally couldnt do, like stack 20 confusion on enemies with cover conditions without trouble whilst still having good options for survivability.

Except Condi Chrono can do that too. With Moa, CS split condi burst it’s possible.

I said without trouble. And with chrono youre not going to be able to survive nearly as well.

In what scenario are you talking about?

PvE?

sPvP?

WvW roaming?

WvW zergs?

The only scenario I would agree that the weaver would survive easier is that last one, a blob in WvW. All the dodging, stun breaks and movement abilities of the Weaver make it a lot easier to survive in a zerg if you’re caught out.

But I wouldn’t run a weaver in a zerg. It brings nothing to a zerg. It’s incredibly selfish, and simultaneously missing the kill & finishing potential of a daredevil.

Im talking of mirage and specifically spvp since i do not play in other areas of the game.

Then you’re probably just bad at chrono, to be completely honest.

Feel free to check my gameplay on twitch. Ive played in multiple top teams in the past, as anyone relevant in the scene would know. twitch.tv/frostball99

Literally means nothing to me. Especially in this game, where the competition has mostly quit.

“I was in a top team in a dead competitive scene”

Frostball.9108:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Frostball.9108:

Refia Montes.3205:

Frostball.9108:

Levetty.1279:

Since you don’t explain why I am forced to presume you are wrong and everybody else is right.

Mirage enables things you normally couldnt do, like stack 20 confusion on enemies with cover conditions without trouble whilst still having good options for survivability.

Except Condi Chrono can do that too. With Moa, CS split condi burst it’s possible.

I said without trouble. And with chrono youre not going to be able to survive nearly as well.

In what scenario are you talking about?

PvE?

sPvP?

WvW roaming?

WvW zergs?

The only scenario I would agree that the weaver would survive easier is that last one, a blob in WvW. All the dodging, stun breaks and movement abilities of the Weaver make it a lot easier to survive in a zerg if you’re caught out.

But I wouldn’t run a weaver in a zerg. It brings nothing to a zerg. It’s incredibly selfish, and simultaneously missing the kill & finishing potential of a daredevil.

Im talking of mirage and specifically spvp since i do not play in other areas of the game.

Then you’re probably just bad at chrono, to be completely honest.

Frostball.9108:

Refia Montes.3205:

Frostball.9108:

Levetty.1279:

Since you don’t explain why I am forced to presume you are wrong and everybody else is right.

Mirage enables things you normally couldnt do, like stack 20 confusion on enemies with cover conditions without trouble whilst still having good options for survivability.

Except Condi Chrono can do that too. With Moa, CS split condi burst it’s possible.

I said without trouble. And with chrono youre not going to be able to survive nearly as well.

In what scenario are you talking about?

PvE?

sPvP?

WvW roaming?

WvW zergs?

The only scenario I would agree that the weaver would survive easier is that last one, a blob in WvW. All the dodging, stun breaks and movement abilities of the Weaver make it a lot easier to survive in a zerg if you’re caught out.

But I wouldn’t run a weaver in a zerg. It brings nothing to a zerg. It’s incredibly selfish, and is simultaneously missing the killing & finishing potential of a daredevil.

Mikkel.8427:

You’re doing exactly what the devs did- trying to FORCE a mechanic to work.

I disagree. I don’t think the devs tried to force a mechanic to work.

If they had, Mirage would have much more focused on a certain task.

But if you actually look at the mirage trait line, and abilities, it’s all over the place.

For instance, there’s literally 1 ambush trait, and all it does is add some confusion to it.

Illusionary Ambush is a blink that doesn’t even put you and your clones in sword range, often resulting (because clones won’t have superspeed due to no chrono) in your clones not actually shattering on a target.

Not to mention it places you randomly around them.

This, in a nutshell, means that axe 3 is better than illusionary ambush, because:

1. It won’t mess up the distances of my illusions if I’m baiting the opponent into a favorable position.

2. It WILL put me in sword distance.

Except for that I’m sacrificing a weapon slot that could’ve been greatsword or staff sigh.

It tries to do too many things, and fails spectacularly at getting any results in those things.

Other than dodges and stun breaks. You have dodges and stun breaks for days.

Here’s my genuine feedback to make mirage mirrors worth, well, anything at all.

1. Completely ditch everything else in the elite spec

2. Rework shatters entirely around mirage mirrors

3. Rework shatter traits to work around mirage mirrors

4. Revamp utilities around mirage mirrors

There.

Imagine a battlefield with loads of mirage mirrors. Mirage mirrors that allies can use. Mirage mirrors that mesmers can jump between. Mirage mirrors that mesmer can generate quite a bit of.

Mirage mirrors that could be used to set up strong AoE damage.

And now imagine Mesmers, with their main handed axe.

Axe 1 has 900 range, applies bleed on the 2nd and 3rd swing, and actually scales with power.

Axe 2 is a defensive roll backwards that leaves a mirage mirror where you were.

Axe 3 is a 900 range lunge that generates a mirage mirror near you if you actually land the hit.

Now build everything else.

glenndevis.8327:

They just make random things that “seem” cool & interesting, but ultimately are very pointless & annoying.

This is precisely what they’d done for quite a long time.

I mean, for instance, wtf was the direction of Chrono? Was it to give the mesmer more survival tools? More group support? More damage? Improve the mesmer’s shatters?

Well I’ll tell you what its direction was? Literally all of the above.

Chrono is a direct upgrade on nearly any mesmer build, because it improved literally everything the mesmer did.

In this case, hoping they would’ve learned from that mistake, I was hoping for something focused.

I’ve been completely let down by this. It completely lacks focus, tries to do too many things. But unlike Chrono, it doesn’t have a glue (Alacrity & F5) to hold it together.

glenndevis.8327:

-I don’t even know why Anet thought Mirage Mirrors was a good idea. I wonder what Daredevils would think if their skills made bits of endurance drop around them so they’d have to go & fetch them.

To be honest, Mirage Mirrors could have been cool.

At first when I read about them I was like “Awesome”.

And then I realized my allies couldn’t utilize them, and you couldn’t create tons of them all over the field.

In my mind when I first read about mirage mirrors, I imagined almost spamming them all over the field, supporting my allies.

Maybe even having the ability to jump from mirror to mirror myself, damaging enemies along the path.

This would all be balanced out by the short life of the mirrors & their single use nature.

But no. We got an incredibly boring, uninspired elite spec, lacking in any of the tools I’ve desired as a mesmer.

And I, with my simple mind, probably just created a spec more interesting than any of the devs because it has a stroke of imagination. A little bit of inspiration should any of the devs ever come across this and think “How can we make this lame mechanic not lame”.

Daishi.6027:

But in terms of just out playing opponents, and giving us more options to hide our burst in a PvP/WvW setting, and giving us even more mobility than before, I think it has potential at it’s skill ceiling.

I don’t need something that hides my burst in a WvW setting.

I need something that lets me do more than run mantras for guilds. Because mantras are just about the most boring underwhelming thing in this game.

There was a short time when HoT launched, that I was able to run power chrono in a zerg, get kills, and provide some reasonable support with a certain well that got gutted entirely. (As well as quickness stomps getting gutted, thx ANet~)

That short time was enjoyable, and frankly not over powered in WvW.

There was another time, when I could run wells and boonshare alacrity and other buffs massively to the front line.

It took skill. It took figuring out how the hell I would do the rotations in the middle of a battle.

That time was enjoyable.

Now? Now I’m sitting here questioning what class I want to play instead of the mesmer.

Or if I should just uninstall again.

Cyninja.2954:

Design team: Playtested? Are you nuts? No one here plays mesmer.

Truer words have never been spoken.

Here’s a spoiler alert for WvW.
If you nerf boon share.
almost nothing changes

It’s not even the issue some of you guys think it is, especially since you’re convinced that conditions will some how become a problem in WvW after the nerf.

Maybe in 15 v 15 conditions will become a problem (I doubt it).

But in normal WvW, where you’re running 30+ generally speaking.
Nothing will change.
AoE’s will still only hit 5 people.
There will still be intense crap loads of condi cleanse and water to throw on the front line.

And the front line will continue to have, arguably, one of the strongest skills in the game mode.

And that would be shield of courage.

It’s funny to me how there are far fewer back liners playing the game mode anymore. Front line runs fat as all hell.
And people are scared that back liners might actually be useful again.

Why even run eles right now, when you can run all guards and a few heralds. Maybe a couple of scrappers for bullwark/water.
And call it a day?

Basically, you’ll see more people spamming nomads.

If it’s condi, then I’m just gonna go hunt for the bleach.
WvW is the only game mode left in the game that I even bother with anymore.
(And there is basically no reason to even run the current boonshare mesmer, let alone a condi mesmer in WvW. Too much Nomads and Minstrels.)

Really, the mesmer falls short in so many categories other than support, that it needs more things than any of us can count.
But actually giving it those things would make it the most broken thing in the game >.<.

I wish the devs would just rework all of the classes, as roughly 50% of every class isn’t used. Be it abilities, traits, or both.

Obtena.7952:

DeceiverX.8361:

I’ve said it many a time.

Mesmer DPS is low because it has such innately high burst on shatters. Is it fair? Sort of, but that’s why chrono had to give support: high personal DPS would allow it to replace pretty much everything else considering the amount of support it provides (which is enough to mandate taking one).

If the mesmer wants a DPS option, it needs a specialization that removes its shatters. That’s up to the mesmer community to decide and deliberate on if they want it, but that’s what needs to happen to enable such high damage.

This is well said. Until I played with shattering, it was a slog to do anything DPS wise. It was just really slow.

1. Mesmer demands LOTS of attention and focus from the player to achieve the most DPS it can offer.
2. Conceptually, it is probably very diffcult to balance the damage offered between shattering and weapon skills, so playing non-shattering builds offer little in comparison.

Honestly, the best argument against this when it comes up.
Is to just point to the thief.

“Mesmer has such high burst with shatters”

And thief has always had backstab.
Yet it’s also always had:
1. Great support (Far better than Mesmer had for the longest time)
2. Unique support (Mesmer is now just another stat increaser, and reflects weren’t unique to mesmer (and are useless in 90% of situations now))
3. Great DPS

Oh, and an insanely strong stealth + movement mechanic that makes it extremely difficult to actually kill a thief.
You know.
That thing they nerfed on mesmers?

rolls eyes
I love how this community hasn’t changed at all.

Oh, so you guys are still here.
Honestly, every once in a while I come back to this game just to see which of the common forum mesmers are still playing.
Turns out, quite a lot of you.
A lot who, if I remember right, previously said they’d quit.

shrug

All of you guys would be happier on OW…
Well… not right now… what with the DDoS going on.
BUT~!

You’d be happier any other day.

Just quit the game and do something else with your time for a while.
OW is coming out on the 24th, perfect excuse to get a good long break from this game.

Then do what I did.
Come back, read patch notes for mesmer changes.
See that there’s only minimal activity.
Then play Revenant like everyone else who doesn’t feel like wasting their time playing a class that doesn’t fit into most of this game in any interesting way.

You’re a support bot everywhere except PvP, and in PvP you’re a boring, sluggish, clunkier necro.

kitten that. Be the class that can literally fill every role in WvW, with full zerker on.
Be the class that can go into PvP and play however the kitten you want. Condi? Power? Your choice.
Be the class that can actually go into PvE, and put down hard DPS WHILE PROVIDING SUPPORT.
4 revenants on your fractal team? Still get the fractal done quickly because Revenants actually do DPS

messiah.1908:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Carighan.6758:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

That completely Utopian concept is what this launched advertising.

Yes, but every MMO does that, pretty much. And anyone who ever played any MMO before knows that it is nothing but marketing bullkitten.

Actually, GW2 is somewhat unique, in that it advertised that any class would be able to fill any role.
When I go back and remember my experience in other games, classes were pretty much entirely dedicated to 1 thing.

I actually can’t think of another MMO I’ve played that was advertised the same way as GW2.
Now, all of them are advertised as the next “wow killer”, but that is because people are stupid.
You can’t kill WoW, it’s already dead. There are no souls in that game, only zombies.

thief has always been dmg dealer and +1 – even anet said so
engi – most of the time sustain/bruiser
guard – bunker and bruiser
ele – support most of the time
necro – condi and aoe power dmg
mesmer – dmg dealer and for short time support/bunker
warrior – bruiser
rev – dmg dealer
ranger – still try to find its spot.
so we got 3 dmg dealer, 2 support bunker, 3 sustain/bruiser

“thief has always been dmg dealer and +1 – even anet said so”
Venom share. Which happens to be a support tanky class. I actually have people on my server that command on a venomshare thief.

“engi – most of the time sustain/bruiser”
Some of the time it’s a full damage dealer. And some of the times it’s a condi user.

“guard – bunker and bruiser”
Has everything it needs to go DPS and Support.

“ele – support most of the time”
Support + tank, and a damage spec.
Oh, and it can do all of those at once in some game modes. (Looks at WvW)

I’m not going to go down the whole list.

The point I want to make, is that the elements for each role is there, in the classes already.
But what we’ve seen from ANet, has been gutting those 1 at a time.
Mostly because the lack of variety ends up giving them unbeatable cheese roles.

I’m shocked venom share thief hasn’t been gutted, considering how powerful it is with a necro party.
Then again, very few things related to WvW have been changed.

When is the last time you’ve seen a static discharge engineer?
How about a core build, period?
S/W warrior? It has aoe condi cleanse for its team.
EXCEPT THE FACT THAT ELE ALREADY COVERS THAT FAR BETTER

This is what annoys the crap out of me.
Instead of inventing new mechanics, ANet just took their already existing mechanics and gave them to other classes.
Making the classes and builds whose viability was based entirely on those mechanics, obsolete.

And then when ANet DOES create a new mechanic.
They gut the whole kitten thing by cutting it in half, and don’t compensate the cooldowns at all. Because they’re geniuses.

The idea that every class could fill most/all of the roles isn’t utopian.
The mechanics are already there.

Carighan.6758:

About the “don’t compare yourself to bad players” think from before, I wish people wouldn’t do that. As appropriate, you need to exactly look at the average.

Consider this:
Say 2% of the game are top-end, and you roll a random 4 group mates.

Chances of having only decent people? Negligible. Hence any spec / setup / plan / tactic should be based on the suboptimal plan B, not on how you’d act in an ideal but utopian clean room scenario.

This is akin to raidleading while assuming raiders won’t make mistakes: they will. If they no longer do, they also no longer need you (meaning the raidleader). Raidleading assumes that you need to lead someone, which again assumes they need this leadership, which is evidently necessary.

Yes, there are situations where looking only at the theoretical top makes sense. In most scenarios, that is not the case. You won’t ever have those situations, you might as well look at the average case.

The problem is, how do you calculate for the average?
Unless ANet releases data they’ve recorded on average DPS, then the average is an unknown.
What isn’t unknown is the theoretical maximum. With a bit of math, and some testing, the maximums are provable.

The average, really isn’t.

Carighan.6758:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

That completely Utopian concept is what this launched advertising.

Yes, but every MMO does that, pretty much. And anyone who ever played any MMO before knows that it is nothing but marketing bullkitten.

Actually, GW2 is somewhat unique, in that it advertised that any class would be able to fill any role.
When I go back and remember my experience in other games, classes were pretty much entirely dedicated to 1 thing.

I actually can’t think of another MMO I’ve played that was advertised the same way as GW2.
Now, all of them are advertised as the next “wow killer”, but that is because people are stupid.
You can’t kill WoW, it’s already dead. There are no souls in that game, only zombies.

messiah.1908:

another 2 ranked soloq fights
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHRwbyChoqw&feature=youtu.be

changed to signet of illusion for better defense and offense abilities

Do you have an SSD or an HDD?
Genuine question, because I noticed you were running into some of the issues I had before I bought an SSD.
The whole enemy mesmer being invisible for a while.

For some reason, it appears GW2 doesn’t like to keep individual character data in ram for very long (Haven’t tested on 64bit client), and chooses to reload character data from the disk.

At least, that’s my assumption. Since buying an SSD has eliminated that issue for me.

Alex Shatter.7956:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Alex Shatter.7956:

DeceiverX.8361:

Earth and water attunes are actually what lead to the generation of might on ele.

I’ve played ele for a really long time and I’ve never used earth or water to pulse might. Overload fire and fire fields are the only efficient sources of might that I know of

Sorry.
I’ve never been an ele fan.
BUT
Aren’t most of eles blasts on earth and water?

Earth has a lot of blast finishers, but in order to use them to gain might, you would have to swap from fire to earth, blast the field… And then you’re locked out of fire attunement for 10 seconds. That rotation might work out for a fresh air variant… But that would be really annoying to keep up and less party wide might. Overload fire gives you and everyone around you like 15 stacks so most people just use that, or dagger 3 to blast a fire field in fire.

Generally speaking, water and earth attunements are the DPS equivalent of a “potty break”. It is advised to avoid them, which gets tougher and tougher at higher level scenarios. Mesmer doesnt run into these decisions and blah blah blah see OP

Well the fun thing about the OP, is that I’m not sure whether what I have to say is “agreeing” with it, or “disagreeing” with it.

Such as #1.
Mesmer isn’t forced to choose between off-support and DPS.

I mean, you’re forced to choose 1 role. Which is support.
Now, I could use off hand sword/pistols to get damage phantasms up.
Or I could get nothing except iAvengers up and give everyone as much alacrity as possible.

As a mesmer, you’re forced into a singular role. It’s full support.
I don’t see anyone on this thread disagreeing with that assessment either. Outside of a couple who are like “Mesmer can get 20k DPS with hybrid!”.
Which is great, for things that won’t reset your phantasms.

You’re essentially saying “My ele can fill 2 roles, so sometimes I’m forced to compromise my build to do a little of both!”.

Ele World Problems?

My mesmer tends to die less than other professions in high level fractals

Maybe I’m a terrible player, but I go down a lot as mesmer in high level fractals.
Often it feels like I’m always 1 hit away from going down.

Running 3 phantasms allows my mesmer to do things like ressurect and support without losing as much DPS. high multitasking ability
Oh… wow. I can do 2 things at the same time! GOD, THAT MULTITASKING IS AMAZING!
I’m so amazing that my personal DPS is SO LOW, THAT IT DOESN’T EVEN MATTER IF I ATTACK OR NOT!

Ele world problems.

The DPS gained from alacrity and TW in high level situations should be incorporated to mesmer’s group DPS.
It is being incorporated.
The problem is, that that is again, the only thing we bring.
You either bring subpar selfish DPS THAT MOSTLY DOESN’T BENEFIT FROM ALACRITY OR TW, or you bring alacrity and TW.

Ansau.7326:

Fay.2357:

Ansau.7326:

I also got feared and attacked with Unrelenting Assault (#3 sword revenant) while using BF.

Fear procced from nightmare runes will pierce evade. Any sort of on-hit event will go through evades.

A passive skill carrying a bad player countering and active skill from a good player.
Anet style…

To be fair, pressing a single button that does a chasing evading attack isn’t all that active.
Or perhaps it is? It’s sort of like the kitchen sink of attacks.
“How many more effects can we add to a single button click!”

At any rate, my opinion is kitten both of those.

Alex Shatter.7956:

DeceiverX.8361:

Earth and water attunes are actually what lead to the generation of might on ele.

I’ve played ele for a really long time and I’ve never used earth or water to pulse might. Overload fire and fire fields are the only efficient sources of might that I know of

Sorry.
I’ve never been an ele fan.
BUT
Aren’t most of eles blasts on earth and water?

Carighan.6758:

Ofc, we could try to have “even” balance, all 8 classes are equally viable given that they spec a specific build, that build might change. This is doable, but won’t work below a teamsize of 8, conceptually. Unless classes are so similar that effectively there aren’t 8 classes but less than that (due to the ignorable differences).

All 9*.
And this game suffers from a pretty serious lack of variety in roles and goals.
For a game “Without the generic roles of tank, dps, and healer”, it sure fell into that tank, dps, healer meta pretty kitten quickly.
Which should’ve been expected, and handled accordingly. Instead of some class being able to fill 2 of those roles better than another class that dedicates entirely to 1 of those roles.

At any rate, if we had a variety of possible goals in this game, it would be a tiny bit easier to balance (in PvP).
Some maps X class would be viable, others it wouldn’t. And everyone would have just gotten used to playing multiple characters.

Instead, we’ve received a single new PvP game mode (And lost another), with a single map, that can be enabled/disabled in the queue. Effectively removing the need to adjust yourself to the game mode.

On top of that, there isn’t any build saving/loading mechanic. Effectively meaning new players won’t adjust themselves to their team/the opposing team. Not until they’ve gotten more experience and have memorized what to swap to.

Carighan.6758:

Or, we could argue that each class should have X setups which are all viable. That is completely utopian, more so in smallscale PvP, but pretty much in WvW and PvE, too.

Ultimately, it comes down to that smallscale PvP only lends itself to Flavor of the Month type of balance

That completely Utopian concept is what this launched advertising.