Guild Wars 2

Fay.2357:

Alex Shatter.7956:

Fay.2357:

Alex Shatter.7956:

bearshaman.3421:

Alex Shatter.7956:

2) My mesmer tends to die less than other professions in high level fractals, as she is very good at pivoting.

In short, mesmer is great at surviving and multitasking, and can keep their DPS sustained in stressful situations better than other professions who hit hard, but don’t pivot well.

What is pivoting?

Getting from point A to point B without dying, wasting excess time trying to heal / defend, or aggro-ing environmental NPCs. In short, “pivot” = “reposition efficiently”.

My elementalist, for example, in all her glory and zoja gear, is terrible at this. if it’s mid boss, and someone on my team screws up, my elementalist is the first to die. she is slow, and is only efficient when she can stay in the same place for long periods at a time. if she needs to reposition or disengage to resurrect someone, or if it’s a fractal where there is AoE up the butt (Aetherblade), she becomes dead weight very fast. When she is in a tough spot, she basically has to check herself out of the mission for a good 10 seconds to spam Wash the Pain Away!, water overload, and other defensive skills until she can get to a spot where she can be effective again. This loss of efficiency in stressful situations makes her DPS a fraction of it’s maximum potential (28k or something, I think is a recent estimate).

my mesmer, however, can flexibly move around the battlefield and reposition when necessary. the clones, access to Staff 2 and blink, and insta-cast distortion make her much more efficient at disengaging and repositioning when something goes wrong or half the team dies and she needs to be on res-support. All the while she is moving around, her iWarlocks and iBerserkers/iSwordsmen are still doing decent damage to the main target. Ive noticed that in situations with lots of excess AoE or ambient npcs (Volcano), mesmers just tend to survive longer. I attribute this to their ability to move around efficiently unhindered, aka, pivoting. She can handle all of this with full zerker gear, chrono / dom / illusion, and not really suffer any DPS loss from her ideal, 10k (is this the most recent estimate for chrono?)

So my ele’s realistic DPS in stressful fractals hits somewhere at 15k, and my mesmer has no problem hitting her max of 10k per second. So the gap isn’t as dramatic as people make it in higher level situations.

Mesmer’s ability to “pivot” has always been coveted in sPvP, but until recently, it hasn’t been as useful in PvE where for the most part, things just stand still and you hit them. Now that more challenging content is coming out, and mobility is more of an issue, I think that is slowly going to change.

Honestly, if your team is having those problems then you’re playing with objectively awful people. Granted, this happens sometimes, but those are the last people you want to compare yourself to.

It happens much more often than people assume on these forums, though. I think people designing “what is meta” and “what is highest DPS” are the tippy-top of the GW2 skill ladder, and for casual players, these DPS estimates for each class are unrealistic. For the average elementalist or engineer who has clocked a year in the class, they shouldn’t expect do be doing triple the damage as a mesmer in level 60+ fractals. Sure, they will do more damage than the mesmer, but few people on this game have the skill to actually tick 29k per second as any profession. I’m just saying for most realistic situations, mesmer DPS isn’t as bad as people give it.

Again though, it doesn’t really matter how often you get awful players. The point is that if you’re comparing yourself to awful players, the comparison is meaningless.

“I do more damage than a guy that dies all the time.”

Ok. Do you want a medal? The PvP version of this comparison would be:

“I have a 100% winrate when playing against people that are way worse than me.”

Ok. I mean, it’s true…but it’s also totally meaningless.

kitten it. Stop bringing logic to the forums. This is a safe space! Our home even!
NO LOGIC ALLOWED, STOP OPPRESSING ME!

Lets nerf more skills, and do nothing to compensate it!

If you were to suggest something like “Make moa last 3 seconds, but decrease the cooldown to 60 seconds”, I would’ve been like “That’s an idea that we could do on a public beta testing server to see how it pans out!”

But no.
Nerf 1 of the only 2 skills mesmer brings to a team, to the ground.

Please, please, just stop.
You’re asking for moa to just be a kitten skill, right after having an intro stating “It was either really good, or really bad”.
The reality is that it was always pretty bad.
And it’s only somewhat good now because of continuum split.

But if I use CS for moa, then I don’t have it for the other 50 situations I’d like to use it in.
And if I use CS for another situation, then I don’t have it for moa.

Do you see the catch 22?

Next you’ll increase gravity well’s cooldown to 180 seconds without changing its damage.
Instead of, well, you know. Decreasing TW’s cooldown to 90 seconds so that it’s competitive with current gravity well.

I argue to remove counter blade entirely.

Make it so that sword 5 does a leaping attack as well as spawning the phantasm.
And make it so that sword 4 is a phase retreat.

Gives opportunity for a little poke and run, or run and poke. Whichever one you prefer.

Personally, I just poke.

Another idea would be to make sword 4 do, lets say 3 blocks. And if the blocks aren’t broken, you have the option for a few seconds afterwards to do a leap attack.
But that seems mechanically clunky.

I much prefer my previous suggestion.

Levetty.1279:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

In a +1, you should be able to kill Druids.

1v1, you should be able to kill mallyx revenants. Let alone +1.
Glint Shiro is quite a bit tougher, but still manageable.

Scrapper is without a doubt better than mesmer.

And necro… necro is necro.

How the hell can you beat a Mallyx Rev with a condi Mes?

Sorry, I’ve been playing mistrust + powerblock. So the resistance usually just gets ripped off.
Not to mention I still mainly play power mes. And power mes just has to force mallyx revs off shiro.

Exciton.8942:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

In a +1, you should be able to kill Druids.

1v1, you should be able to kill mallyx revenants. Let alone +1.
Glint Shiro is quite a bit tougher, but still manageable.

Scrapper is without a doubt better than mesmer.

And necro… necro is necro.

I find mallyx rev super hard for me. The only chance is to strip their resistance by sword autoattacking.

Scrapper is possible to beat 1v1 but most of the time it is stalemate

Even if you beat a scrapper 1v1, which would take ages and you’ll undoubtably be +1’d eventually, scrapper offers more to his team than you do.

You can’t even use the moa argument against scrapper, scrapper can moa as well.

In a +1, you should be able to kill Druids.

1v1, you should be able to kill mallyx revenants. Let alone +1.
Glint Shiro is quite a bit tougher, but still manageable.

Scrapper is without a doubt better than mesmer.

And necro… necro is necro.

SkyShroud.2865:

How do you engage a DH that is holding a point, while making sure to kill him fast enough before he go reinforcements.

You don’t.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Wait wait, kitten is censored? Who the hell is offended by kitten ANet?

Just switch to Bork!

No, I refuse. kitten IS NOT A BAD WORD, NEITHER IS HERP!

ANET WILL NOT CENSOR THE MEME!
CENSORS CANNOT MELT STEEL BEAMS!

cyyrix.6105:

Sorry, you didn’t follow proper procedure on the mesmer forums to lay claim to a build.

Everyone knows that you need to post a link to the build and give it some sort of epic title like “Lawn Mowing Shattered Immortal Cat Swag Stomper v2.3 beta (scepter variant)”

8/10 Not enough butterflies – IGN

Lexander.4579:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Lexander.4579:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Lexander.4579:

Fay.2357:

Lexander.4579:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Lexander.4579:

Fay.2357:

Lexander.4579:

Fay.2357:

Lexander.4579:

because mesmer has easy access to the most damaging conditions – torment and confusion

and after they apply 5 stacks of confusion and 7 stacks of torment while hiding in stealth or spamming blind preventing counter-attack they just spam their endless defensive cds while you take 1.5k damage per second

Sounds like somebody has no idea how to fight a condie mesmer, refuses to learn, and as a result ends up eating dirt every time he sees one.

Might I offer the advice of….l2p?

what a pathetic attempt of a personal attack, most definitely i dont lose to them

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

if salty mesmer mains cant accept they are unable to play the class without the unkillable chronobunker build they can always reroll to scrapper or rev

If salty thief mains can’t accept that they have no functional reason to ever lose to a mesmer unless they’re bad, they can always uninstall the game.

never said i lose to mesmers, my build excels in 1v1

Sure, whatever you say.

If you actually never lost to mesmers, you wouldn’t be here whining about them. Obviously there’s a little bit of defensive fabrication going on.

im here because im worried for the state of game’s health

Because Mesmers are definitely the linchpin with the state of the game’s health.

And not Eles, Revenants, or Scrappers.

None of those 3 classes need their forums trolled or anything.

No no. The deciding factor in this new meta is mesmer.

well if anet nerfed terrible mechanics in mesmer’s class they could probably buff something else which has counterplay and is not so unfun to play against

Yeah because portal, condis, stealth, and block HAVE NO COUNTER PLAY.

Those 2 seconds of stealth we have from that 1 kittening stealth skill we actually carry on our bar are SO UNBELIEVABLY UNBALANCED!

THAT ONE IMMOBILE BLUR WE HAVE IS SO UNBALANCED.

sigh
Baka

you forgot also shield and portal and invul from F4 and then you press F5 and can rotate all those again while having alacrity for reduced cooldowns in case if F5 is unavailable

good design indeed

I mentioned portal.

Shield is a situational pick for me. I don’t like running it against a lot of classes.

Using F4 in a fight means I don’t have it for stomping, and mesmer isn’t great at cleaving downs.
Capable, not great.

If I use CS for defensive purposes, then I don’t have it for offensive purposes.
A.K.A. Moa.
So essentially, I won’t have moa for 90 seconds. (Actually casting the moa isn’t recommended)

Oh, i’m sorry. 87 seconds. That 33% alacrity that I have up for a grand total of 5 seconds makes such a difference.

Lexander.4579:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Lexander.4579:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Lexander.4579:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Lexander.4579:

dont know i’d say mesmers need something done about their portals and the endless spam of defensive cds

Personally, I have to question why we even have thieves in this game.
Isn’t being killed by a class that has perma-stealth far too cheap? I mean, what is the counter?
Hope that you know the thief is close enough, and then play one of the classes that can actually reveal the thief?

We wouldn’t even need reveals if thief didn’t exist. It’s a half-baked counter to a class with no other counter.

See, I can be salty too.

stealth is a fine mechanic, just kittened 5-2 spamming d/p thieves make it look bad and give the bad reputation to the entire thief class

as opposed to mesmers where every single build is annoying and gives the class its bad reputation

5-2 spamming, shadow refuge, D/D, smoke + shortbow 2, do I really need to continue?

Every single thief build is annoying.
Pistol/Dagger used to actually be my favorite set, because it was one of the most hilarious never-dying troll setups in this entire game.

when im speaking of annoying i dont mean simply “lel cant kill me” builds, i mean builds that also make a strong impact on the game as well

So that means literally 0 mesmer builds.
Look mate, you’re playing a thief.
Your entire job is roaming around decapping, +1’ing, and preventing the enemy roamer from doing anything.

The mesmer’s entire job is roaming around,decapping, +1ing, and placing meaningful portals for its team.

Do you see the conflict of interest here?
Do you?
Just go kill the mesmer, it’ll never do ANYTHING beneficial for its team, ever again.

Even if a mesmer burns moa on you, and manages to either kill you/get away, GUESS WHAT! You just wasted a LONG VALUABLE COOLDOWN of the mesmers.

You just did your job, by preventing the mesmer from doing his job.

It’s not a hard concept mate.

funny, often enough there are matches when i never encounter enemy thief roamers because they are mostly busy with our mid/close while im holding their close

I have a dumb question.
Why is a thief in mid while a mesmer is on his close?

The answer is YOU’RE PLAYING UNRANKED, THAT IS NOT A GOOD MEASUREMENT FOR HOW GOOD A BUILD IS!

You’re like “My enemy team’s thief is brain dead, kitten kitten MESMER OP”.

Wait wait, kitten is censored? Who the hell is offended by kitten ANet?

Lexander.4579:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Lexander.4579:

Fay.2357:

Lexander.4579:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Lexander.4579:

Fay.2357:

Lexander.4579:

Fay.2357:

Lexander.4579:

because mesmer has easy access to the most damaging conditions – torment and confusion

and after they apply 5 stacks of confusion and 7 stacks of torment while hiding in stealth or spamming blind preventing counter-attack they just spam their endless defensive cds while you take 1.5k damage per second

Sounds like somebody has no idea how to fight a condie mesmer, refuses to learn, and as a result ends up eating dirt every time he sees one.

Might I offer the advice of….l2p?

what a pathetic attempt of a personal attack, most definitely i dont lose to them

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

if salty mesmer mains cant accept they are unable to play the class without the unkillable chronobunker build they can always reroll to scrapper or rev

If salty thief mains can’t accept that they have no functional reason to ever lose to a mesmer unless they’re bad, they can always uninstall the game.

never said i lose to mesmers, my build excels in 1v1

Sure, whatever you say.

If you actually never lost to mesmers, you wouldn’t be here whining about them. Obviously there’s a little bit of defensive fabrication going on.

im here because im worried for the state of game’s health

Because Mesmers are definitely the linchpin with the state of the game’s health.

And not Eles, Revenants, or Scrappers.

None of those 3 classes need their forums trolled or anything.

No no. The deciding factor in this new meta is mesmer.

well if anet nerfed terrible mechanics in mesmer’s class they could probably buff something else which has counterplay and is not so unfun to play against

Yeah because portal, condis, stealth, and block HAVE NO COUNTER PLAY.

Those 2 seconds of stealth we have from that 1 kittening stealth skill we actually carry on our bar are SO UNBELIEVABLY UNBALANCED!

THAT ONE IMMOBILE BLUR WE HAVE IS SO UNBALANCED.

sigh
Baka

Lexander.4579:

Fay.2357:

Lexander.4579:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Lexander.4579:

Fay.2357:

Lexander.4579:

Fay.2357:

Lexander.4579:

because mesmer has easy access to the most damaging conditions – torment and confusion

and after they apply 5 stacks of confusion and 7 stacks of torment while hiding in stealth or spamming blind preventing counter-attack they just spam their endless defensive cds while you take 1.5k damage per second

Sounds like somebody has no idea how to fight a condie mesmer, refuses to learn, and as a result ends up eating dirt every time he sees one.

Might I offer the advice of….l2p?

what a pathetic attempt of a personal attack, most definitely i dont lose to them

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

if salty mesmer mains cant accept they are unable to play the class without the unkillable chronobunker build they can always reroll to scrapper or rev

If salty thief mains can’t accept that they have no functional reason to ever lose to a mesmer unless they’re bad, they can always uninstall the game.

never said i lose to mesmers, my build excels in 1v1

Sure, whatever you say.

If you actually never lost to mesmers, you wouldn’t be here whining about them. Obviously there’s a little bit of defensive fabrication going on.

im here because im worried for the state of game’s health

Because Mesmers are definitely the linchpin with the state of the game’s health.

And not Eles, Revenants, or Scrappers.

None of those 3 classes need their forums trolled or anything.

No no. The deciding factor in this new meta is mesmer.

Lexander.4579:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Lexander.4579:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Lexander.4579:

dont know i’d say mesmers need something done about their portals and the endless spam of defensive cds

Personally, I have to question why we even have thieves in this game.
Isn’t being killed by a class that has perma-stealth far too cheap? I mean, what is the counter?
Hope that you know the thief is close enough, and then play one of the classes that can actually reveal the thief?

We wouldn’t even need reveals if thief didn’t exist. It’s a half-baked counter to a class with no other counter.

See, I can be salty too.

stealth is a fine mechanic, just kittened 5-2 spamming d/p thieves make it look bad and give the bad reputation to the entire thief class

as opposed to mesmers where every single build is annoying and gives the class its bad reputation

5-2 spamming, shadow refuge, D/D, smoke + shortbow 2, do I really need to continue?

Every single thief build is annoying.
Pistol/Dagger used to actually be my favorite set, because it was one of the most hilarious never-dying troll setups in this entire game.

when im speaking of annoying i dont mean simply “lel cant kill me” builds, i mean builds that also make a strong impact on the game as well

So that means literally 0 mesmer builds.
Look mate, you’re playing a thief.
Your entire job is roaming around decapping, +1’ing, and preventing the enemy roamer from doing anything.

The mesmer’s entire job is roaming around,decapping, +1ing, and placing meaningful portals for its team.

Do you see the conflict of interest here?
Do you?
Just go kill the mesmer, it’ll never do ANYTHING beneficial for its team, ever again.

Even if a mesmer burns moa on you, and manages to either kill you/get away, GUESS WHAT! You just wasted a LONG VALUABLE COOLDOWN of the mesmers.

You just did your job, by preventing the mesmer from doing his job.

It’s not a hard concept mate.

Lexander.4579:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Lexander.4579:

dont know i’d say mesmers need something done about their portals and the endless spam of defensive cds

Personally, I have to question why we even have thieves in this game.
Isn’t being killed by a class that has perma-stealth far too cheap? I mean, what is the counter?
Hope that you know the thief is close enough, and then play one of the classes that can actually reveal the thief?

We wouldn’t even need reveals if thief didn’t exist. It’s a half-baked counter to a class with no other counter.

See, I can be salty too.

stealth is a fine mechanic, just kittened 5-2 spamming d/p thieves make it look bad and give the bad reputation to the entire thief class

as opposed to mesmers where every single build is annoying and gives the class its bad reputation

5-2 spamming, shadow refuge, D/D, smoke + shortbow 2, do I really need to continue?

Every single thief build is annoying.
Pistol/Dagger used to actually be my favorite set, because it was one of the most hilarious never-dying troll setups in this entire game.

Lexander.4579:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Lexander.4579:

Fay.2357:

Lexander.4579:

Fay.2357:

Lexander.4579:

because mesmer has easy access to the most damaging conditions – torment and confusion

and after they apply 5 stacks of confusion and 7 stacks of torment while hiding in stealth or spamming blind preventing counter-attack they just spam their endless defensive cds while you take 1.5k damage per second

Sounds like somebody has no idea how to fight a condie mesmer, refuses to learn, and as a result ends up eating dirt every time he sees one.

Might I offer the advice of….l2p?

what a pathetic attempt of a personal attack, most definitely i dont lose to them

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

if salty mesmer mains cant accept they are unable to play the class without the unkillable chronobunker build they can always reroll to scrapper or rev

If salty thief mains can’t accept that they have no functional reason to ever lose to a mesmer unless they’re bad, they can always uninstall the game.

never said i lose to mesmers, my build excels in 1v1

You mean your class excels at 1v1. Do you know how easy it is to kite literally any other class in this game as a thief?
Nah, who am I kidding, ofc you don’t.

You’re too busy on the mesmer forums complaining about condis on a class that cleanses that 1 condi we throw out in any quantity, with a kittening dodge roll.
And you have 3 of them.

Give us a break, and go to your own forum.

Lexander.4579:

Fay.2357:

Lexander.4579:

Fay.2357:

Lexander.4579:

because mesmer has easy access to the most damaging conditions – torment and confusion

and after they apply 5 stacks of confusion and 7 stacks of torment while hiding in stealth or spamming blind preventing counter-attack they just spam their endless defensive cds while you take 1.5k damage per second

Sounds like somebody has no idea how to fight a condie mesmer, refuses to learn, and as a result ends up eating dirt every time he sees one.

Might I offer the advice of….l2p?

what a pathetic attempt of a personal attack, most definitely i dont lose to them

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

if salty mesmer mains cant accept they are unable to play the class without the unkillable chronobunker build they can always reroll to scrapper or rev

If salty thief mains can’t accept that they have no functional reason to ever lose to a mesmer unless they’re bad, they can always uninstall the game.

Lexander.4579:

dont know i’d say mesmers need something done about their portals and the endless spam of defensive cds

Personally, I have to question why we even have thieves in this game.
Isn’t being killed by a class that has perma-stealth far too cheap? I mean, what is the counter?
Hope that you know the thief is close enough, and then play one of the classes that can actually reveal the thief?

We wouldn’t even need reveals if thief didn’t exist. It’s a half-baked counter to a class with no other counter.

See, I can be salty too.

Anomaly.7612:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

200-250k on any mesmer build you could name, is pretty normal.
It’s a small amount of total damage because you’re applying that to singular targets throughout the whole game.

Basically, you don’t provide a whole hell of a lot of cleave.

Thieves have superior cleave, and more damage overall.
Therefore you getting 360-400k sounds about right.

I haven’t played thief in a long while, so Idk where it should actually land. But what you’ve suggested doesn’t seem outlandish to me.

One, I thought your name was, “TheOneWhoSleighs,” which would have been amazing, but I still like your name as is.

I agree, I can see what you mean by that. Thanks for the info as I was curious. Kinda bummed because I’m not sure what a mesmer brings to the table that another class doesn’t aside from a portal. Any help on that? What makes a mesmer worth bringing to a team? Because I really enjoy the play style a lot, but I want to feel like I’m contributing.

For YoloQ the only thing I can suggest is to play a very selfish condi build, and decap what you can.

For an actual team, I have no clue.
You’re essentially portal and moa, and don’t bring much else other than a couple of difficult to land interrupts.

Rev does everything we do, but better.

On the bright side, however, a mesmer can 1v1 a rev. How that’s beneficial?
Idk.

Anomaly.7612:

Ananeos.4587:

Power shatter is a burst build. Burst != sustained damage.

Does != also mean, =\= ? An equal with a slash through it? If so, I agree. :L

Programming wise, != is NOT EQUAL

200-250k on any mesmer build you could name, is pretty normal.
It’s a small amount of total damage because you’re applying that to singular targets throughout the whole game.

Basically, you don’t provide a whole hell of a lot of cleave.

Thieves have superior cleave, and more damage overall.
Therefore you getting 360-400k sounds about right.

I haven’t played thief in a long while, so Idk where it should actually land. But what you’ve suggested doesn’t seem outlandish to me.

Obtena.7952:

I would say you should not undervalue your time by doing that. Just because you don’t consider mats or whatever you sell on the TP to be part of your gold intake doesn’t mean it’s not.

The problem is, if I sell it, then I’m likely to lose money because I’ll need to rebuy it later.
If I keep it, it’s not effectively doing anything for me atm.

As well, a lot of things in this game are unstable. So calculating current gold value for an item I intend to keep, is fallacious.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t see how it doesn’t. The mats have a value … just like the value of the mats you get from doing dungeons, etc… Do you not consider the gold you earn from selling dungeon loot/mats profiting from doing them?

When I do a dungeon, I literally just throw a sell order in for everything of any value and I’m done.
Which, actually excludes mats. I mostly hoard mats. Then again, I’ve made a couple of legendaries, so that is the name of the game.

Thus, honestly mats don’t get calculated into any of my gold intake from dungeons runs.

As well, if you’ve already got knowledge of the market, why bother farming for things?
Just flip and be done. Like all the whales in this game do.

I don’t feel like it’s a problem.

I actually like that I have to trade something off for something else.
I also like that, now, we have chronophantasma. Which makes the trade off a bit less than it was before, should you take it.

My personal feeling is that the biggest problem with the phantasm skills is summoning a phantasm is all some of them do.

Pistol 4, Sword 5.

It would be nice if pistol 4 at least did some kind of rapid fire attack with your character.

And, I swear by this.
If you changed nothing else on sword, except added a leaping attack for my character to sword 5, I would never unequip offhand sword.

EVER.

kitten greatsword, kitten scepter.

All I’ll run is pure Sword/Sword and make it work.

messiah.1908:

guys from yesterday every match i played there were 1-2 mesmer in the enemy team
so thank helseth, frosball
are we gonna see more nerf to condi mesmer now…. maybe mtd now only half torment stack … or tormet apply by mesmer will do only half dmg

The hope will die down in a day or 2. Like it always does.

Also, is today daily mesmer winner? Hell if I know, I didn’t even check yet.

Obtena.7952:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Obtena.7952:

Think what you like I suppose; my point isn’t to talk about what counts as lucrative or not. It’s to say that optimized PVE builds in OW increase your returns. (Assuming we’ve gotten past the idea that it’s ridiculous to optimize a build for OW in the first place.)

Your idea of lucrative is related to whether or not it’s ridiculous to optimize a build for OW in the first place.
If there is no ROI. Why would I ever make, say, celestial gear for OW content?

OW has no ROI other than tapping events. Which can be done with extremely inefficient builds.
Cost effectiveness & time investment needs to be taken into account.

Considering, again, that running naked with a staff mesmer I’ll likely tap just as many events in SW as you would. I find it hard to believe it’s worth investing any time in anything other than mobility.

I guess we simply have to have a difference of opinion if you can’t be open minded enough to consider that there are other ways to make money in OW than tapping events. /shrug.

There is being open minded.
And then there is blindly believing that one thing that guy on the internet said without any evidence nor real argument to back it up.

You even said “Assuming we’ve gotten past”.
Know why you said that? Because you know we haven’t. Otherwise the conversation would’ve progressed naturally.

If you want me to even consider your guff, you’re going to have to prove it.

Otherwise, I’ll… actually continue to not play OW content because it’s dull. Outside of some daily world bosses on that off chance that I might get a precursor.

For world bosses, full zerk, gs + sword/sword.

For open world, gs + staff. Bind about face to a key, and use phase retreat on staff to get around faster.

Dom Insp Chrono for both, because I’m a bit lazy when it comes to dodging.

Signet heal, blink, well of calamity, well of recall, time warp. Can replace time warp for GW if you want shrug.

Someone should go PM that one guy who was all big on his optimized PvE build. This is the perfect thread for him.

For dungeons, fractals, raids, etc. The ones on metabattle are all fine.

I don’t really agree with the glamour changes.

I’d rather see Well of Precog replaced with a condition applying well, and the cooldown adjusted accordingly.

Null field applying confusion on boon rip is too similar to necros boon corrupt. I feel like this skill probably needs a change in direction all together.
Perhaps make it cripple and daze on pulse. but not remove conditions.

Idk, trying to think of what would make me take this skill in any of the content in the game.
Perhaps null field could make it so that any enemy AoEs in the area wouldn’t do damage (non-aoe attacks would still do damage). shrug Now I’m just suggesting ridiculous things.

Feedback would be fine, if ANet would stop adding mobs that fire un-reflectable projectiles. And would revert some of the changes to dungeons they’ve made, to make some enemies/mini-bosses attacks un-reflectable.

Portal is already strong enough.
Super speed would obviously be welcomed, but I can’t think of anyone in this entire community that wouldn’t decry that as a ridiculous change for a skill already strong enough to be the sole reason you’d play a mesmer.

An interesting idea that was sort of a joke suggestion, would be increasing the range of portal, but increasing its cooldown as well.
I’d like to have a Public Beta Environment to test out an idea like that. Could make portal play more fun, but also less… necessary as a mesmer player?

I like Pyro’s suggestions. Especially overload. It could be good for team fights in sPvP.

If we had a well that applied confusion, it would swing a team fight really hard if they didn’t cleanse it immediately.

Edit:
“Perhaps null field could make it so that any enemy AoEs in the area wouldn’t do damage (non-aoe attacks would still do damage). shrug Now I’m just suggesting ridiculous things.”
The more I think about this insane suggestion. The less insane it seems. Depending on how you define AoE, it really couldn’t be argued to be OP.
Though it’d probably be a kitten to program.

PvP
I could make a run down of everything.
But you seem a bit directionless. So instead, I’d rather set you up with functioning builds (They aren’t necessarily “meta”, but they function)

If you want to play power shatter:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Chronomancer_-_Power_Shatter

I’d take moa over gravity well, mental anguish over powerblock (in the dom trait line), and fire sigil over blood on gs.

All of that is personal choice though. Mental anguish is easier to play than powerblock. And since you’ve been gone for a while, I’m assuming interrupts aren’t your strong suit.

For condi:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Chronomancer_-_Chronophantasma_Shatter

I’ve got nothing to add to that one.

WvW/PvE
Ahh, this one…
So first of all, grouping these is a bit of a nono.

For PvE, ideally you’ll want assassins stats. For WvW, ideally you’ll want zerker, maybe some assassins mixed in, but full zerker is fine.

For WvW, you’ll be running the same PvP Power Shatter build I posted before, but Gravity Well instead of the moa I suggested.

You can also swap the sigil of fire I suggested before, for sigil of blight. But sigil of blight is a bit better for 15 v 15 GvGs in the guild hall, than it is for open field fights. It’s a matter of taste tbh.

In open field WvW/GvGs, torch may be preferred over shield.
If you’re in a guild arena, torch is literally useless, so shield is preferred.

For PvE, it depends entirely on the content.
For dungeons/fractals/what have you:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Chronomancer_-_Utility_DPS

For raids, you can run either of these.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Chronomancer_-_Utility_DPS_%28R%29

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Chronomancer_-_Chronotank

And yes, I did just swipe from metabattle, but in this case, it looked like you needed more direction, and less individual advice. Your builds looked to be a bit all over the place to me.

I mean no offense when I say this.

But you have condi traits, and a condi signet, but 0 condi damage.
You have a sigil of accuracy and a sigil of perception on both of your weapons.

These are not great choices. First of all, if you take stacking sigils, it’s really risky. You won’t have a consistent power level throughout a match, so you might never know if you’ll kill someone with an attack or won’t.
Second, sigil of accuracy is a very blehhh sigil. And you already had some decent perception. Any on hit crit sigil is preferred over accuracy.
Or even an on swap poison proc sigil. Poison is effective against heals regardless of condi damage, so any poison you can output is a positive, as long as it’s not outclassed by another sigil.

messiah.1908:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

It’s funny, because I’m pretty sure helseth has been running Dueling/Illu/Chrono, with mistrust on Dueling & ineptitude in Illu.

So I’m assuming that that is frostball’s build?

helseth atm seem to testing combination
atm he use mistrust . at the start of the last stream he said mistrust is some kind weak and than 15 min later he said he loved it. also he playing without condi cleanse and said insp may be needed so no mistrust. also mistrut seem to pay off in team fight as its aoe confusion.
i dont think i can play like he does without condi cleanse unless i know i wont be facing much condi pressure

i think the most pressure i saw on his steam was 16 confusion with mistrust and shatter which just with scepter you can achieve the same . but sword offer more evade and teleport and immobilize if your team lacks of it.

Tbh, if I’m facing condi pressure, I feel like I’m dead with or without insp if I get hit.
Take care, kite, fight off point, and condi cleanse might feel less necessary.

I just don’t feel like panic condi cleanse is all that valuable unless I kittened up. And I usually die regardless, if I kitten up.

Also, idk.
Helseth is running a build currently that looks like it runs just fine in unranked yoloQ.
I seriously question why everyone’s jumping to the conclusion that it’ll work in ranked, or that it’s at all meta.

Idk about you guys, but YoloQ is so consistently inconsistently with skill levels for me, that it doesn’t actually feel like a valuable place to spend my time.

I don’t mean to sound rude.
But is that all?

If all I’m hitting is 1200 on an AoE, and a chaos storm, I couldn’t possibly validate that over either Timewarp or Gravity well, depending on the situation.

On top of stunning yourself. I just.
No. When would I ever want to do a bit of damage AND stun myself?

How about making it to where all mantras instantly charge for X number of seconds?
Could actually bring mantras into the meta.

fost.9167:

Sorry been a long day, i meant sword

Yeah, you might actually mean pistol. Since pistol can do bleeds.

Off hand sword sucks in PvP. Especially when shield is an option.

fost.9167:

Why not use scepter/shield scepter/dagger?

Am I missing something

We don’t have an off hand dagger.
And not everyone thinks scepter is great.

I’m one of the people in the boat that scepter kinda sucks, tbh.
I just don’t like the weapon. But that’s a personal opinion.

Obtena.7952:

Think what you like I suppose; my point isn’t to talk about what counts as lucrative or not. It’s to say that optimized PVE builds in OW increase your returns. (Assuming we’ve gotten past the idea that it’s ridiculous to optimize a build for OW in the first place.)

Your idea of lucrative is related to whether or not it’s ridiculous to optimize a build for OW in the first place.
If there is no ROI. Why would I ever make, say, celestial gear for OW content?

OW has no ROI other than tapping events. Which can be done with extremely inefficient builds.
Cost effectiveness & time investment needs to be taken into account.

Considering, again, that running naked with a staff mesmer I’ll likely tap just as many events in SW as you would. I find it hard to believe it’s worth investing any time in anything other than mobility.

Obtena.7952:

Not everyone thinks it’s boring and if you are optimized for it, it’s quite lucrative if you consider at the risk/reward of a relaxed PVE setting. I can’t force anyone to use optimized builds, but they exist and they do increase your returns for the time you spend in OW, just like they do for dungeons, etc … that’s of course, if you’re willing to experiment and try them out.

I actually have no clue what OW content you’re doing, where having a build optimized for trash mobs would matter, and the rewards would be “lucrative”.

Especially map completion wise.
The only thing I can think of is farming black lion keys? Which is a gamble at best, and a complete waste of time 9/10.

Again, all you have to do is tap an event to get the rewards.
Tapping really doesn’t take much.

Farming SW is literally tapping events to get shovels, and then using said shovels in a chest farm.
Or just leeching kitten loads of shovels.

Neither of which are really all that lucrative.

Obtena.7952:

If I understand where you are going, I can only say that OW PVE is more than just AoE tagging and mobility.

Could’ve fooled me.
Because that’s literally all I do.

Unless you’re talking about map completion. Which has to be one of the most mind numbingly boring things in this game. And if you’re doing it on a mesmer, all I can say is I’ll pray for you.
Like I did for myself.

Seriously, it was boring.

It’s funny, because I’m pretty sure helseth has been running Dueling/Illu/Chrono, with mistrust on Dueling & ineptitude in Illu.

So I’m assuming that that is frostball’s build?

YaYa.5879:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA the op makes me laugh…
Listen kid, if you think that Anet is going to make a reasonable change (like the one you suggested) in 2 days, you believe in miracles.
I don’t know if you noticed but Anet can’t balance a class to save their lives. I mean each balance patch some classes become garbage and some become overpowered.

I mean look at the last patch they nerfed the class without adding anything new.
I hope that when the next patch comes, mesmer will still be able to create clones and phantasms XD

We will.
But since it was unfair for mesmer to have alacrity all to itself, scrapper, guardian, & ele will all be able to give alacrity as well.

Also, alacrity will be corruptible/rippable.

Obtena.7952:

Just because you stated it, doesn’t make it true. Optimal OW PVE builds are more than just giving yourself mobility because mobility isn’t enough to ensure your optimized … especially redundant mobility like you suggested by stacking staff and Chrono.

Yeah, that redundant mobility of stacking signet move speed with shortbow.
Or warhorn with sword on warrior.
Or.

DO YOU SEE WHERE I’M GOING WITH THIS YET?

sigh hopeless.

Good day, sir.
Have fun with your super awesomely pointlessly optimized OW build.
I’ll enjoy tapping events and getting more than you ever will.

Obtena.7952:

So stacking a staff with Chrono is optimal in OW PVE … because of phase retreat? Is that serious?

As I’ve stated.
You literally need nothing else other than mobility.

Just tap events, and earn more rewards than all the kittens finishing the individual events for you.

HOW IS THIS HARD TO GRASP?

Obtena.7952:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

It is absurd, because OW content comes with pittance for rewards, and no one cares about it outside of plebs.
It’s not that hard to figure out.

Also, you argued against staff.

Again, staff provides superior mobility to the mesmer.
And ALL YOU WANT TO DO IN OW CONTENT IS TAP.
You could run all mantras and staff, and still tap in no time, then move onto the next event.

Pittance or not, you can optimize a build for it.

The ‘build’ you suggested uses Chrono … Time Marches On already has a runspeed buff and a significant decrease in mobility-imparing conditions. What superior mobility is staff offering beyond that? Random boons? That’s hardly reliable as superior mobility if you ask me

OW is more than just tapping events and giving yourself redundant skills with poor weapon choices like Staff with Chrono.

Do you not know how phase retreat works?
Like, wow.
I don’t know how to respond to that.

“you have a 25% movespeed increase”
And thief has that + shortbow 5.

Why are you ignoring phase retreat? Lol.

Obtena.7952:

It might be ridiculous to you, but you don’t know what the OP was asking. I merely suggested he might be considering OW performance. Obviously that got a few people a little upset and started talk about how it doesn’t matter, when in fact it does.

It’s plenty easy to settle; We just need some people to provide builds to test to see if optimizing for OW is absurd or not. If those builds have differences in time to run through OW content, then it’s not as absurd as you want people to believe it is. I can already tell you it does because an optimized build does run the same OW content faster than one that is not, just like dungeons, etc… , but apparently, some people are stubborn just to be argumentative I guess.

Anyone willing to step up or are you just all talk again?

It is absurd, because OW content comes with pittance for rewards, and no one cares about it outside of plebs.
It’s not that hard to figure out.

Also, you argued against staff.

Again, staff provides superior mobility to the mesmer.
And ALL YOU WANT TO DO IN OW CONTENT IS TAP.
You could run all mantras and staff, and still tap in no time, then move onto the next event.

How is this hard to figure out?

THE OPTIMIZED WAY TO PLAY OW CONTENT IS TO PLAY LIKE A kitten, THAT DOESN’T ACTUALLY PLAY THE GAME!

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

rchu.8945:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

There’s no crow to eat because the Mesmer proved its just not viable. Making an appearance doesnt mean it’s effective.

The discrepancy in team skill stopped the mesmer not the mesmer class.

You’ve got a hilarious double standard here. You’re saying that the mesmer’s poor performance can’t possibly indicate that mesmer is poor because the team was bad, then you turn around and say that the mesmer is clearly viable because it showed up in the tournament, despite having just claimed that you can’t tell anything about the mesmer due to the bad team. You can’t have it both ways, either it means something or it doesn’t.

Azukas.1426:

I’ll say it again. A pro team went with mesmer for a reason and didn’t consider guardian, thief, or warrior at all.

Yeah. Want to know the reason? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Portal_Entre

That’s literally it. They chose mesmer because we have portal. Not because the class outside of portal is even remotely good.

Azukas.1426:

Our class is better off than those 3, and you literally can’t deny it. We are not trash tier. We may be at an under powered level, but we are going to have to see how our utility pans out in this new meta.

Based on what? The only team that took a mesmer got dismantled. Yes, I know, the team played badly, you’ve already mentioned it…but it’s nothing short of lunacy to use the fact that a team brought a mesmer as mesmer being viable when that team got massacred.

Until you can give an argument more intelligent than ‘but a team that got destroyed brought a mesmer so mesmer is viable’, you’ve got absolutely nothing to say.

It didn’t matter what classes Rank 55 ran against PZ….they were that much better than them. So coming to a conclusion on how well mesmer works in this meta can’t be done.

What conclusion can be made is a pro team decided to run mesmer b/c they saw something in our class. I can guarantee you that they’ve faced Rev, Rev, Necro, Ele, Engi in their scrims with the abjured (who just happened to run that comp) before the finals.

Thank You

You can’t guarantee that. Unless you’ve watched their scrims, in which case, fair enough.

But it’s possible that Abjured spent all their time against PZ trying out comps that weren’t Rev, Rev, Necro, Ele, Engi.

In fact, they may have specifically avoided that one, to prevent tipping PZ off.

Obtena.7952:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Obtena.7952:

OW PVE is alot of elements that require optimization, DPS and travel time being two of them. Like I said, post a build, I will let you know how it fairs compared to what I run. I’m always looking to ‘speed run’ OW because I benefit from doing it as fast as I can, just like people doing dungeons, fractals and raids benefit from doing those PVE things as fast as they can too.

I can already tell you a few things that aren’t good with your ’build:

1. Insp will suck because nothing you get from it helps you in OW. You said it wouldn’t matter, it matters quite a bit. Do you throw away a whole traitline when you make a dungeon build?
2. Staff offers little in OW PVE on trash. Don’t need it for the runspeed with Chrono traited. Not sure if the other skills compliments GS too well either.
3. I guess you decided to not bother to provide hotbar skills or the traits. Not much of a considered build there;; dropped out of the challenge before it even got off the ground.

All in all, I think you have some work to do before I take you seriously about how much it doesn’t matter to think about optimizing OW PVE performance. I already know the “don’t care” build isn’t going to do better than the one I’m using.

Again, literally don’t care.

Do you really need me to tell you signet heal, blink, well of calamity, well of recall, and tw.
Is there anything else even worth putting on those slots in the bar? Other than another well?

For OW PVE, I think there is because I believe I’ve optimized my build for it. If you want to prove me wrong, then you need to give me a build I can test to see if it’s better. Just telling me it doesn’t matter and you don’t care is not an objective test.

Again, I don’t care.
kitten your build, and kitten OW.

eldenbri.1059:

I think one meaningful boost is also fine. I guess the challenge is picking which one – maybe make alacrity a bit better?

I think trimming back on classes that clearly seem to be in the lead is also good. That probably wouldn’t be enough to get warrior more competitive, but it seems like it would help if there were clear tweaks to be made.

To be fair, warrior needs an overhaul.
It’s stupidly easy to play, and unrewarding.
If you reward it, then you’re rewarding a lack of skill.
If you don’t reward it, then it’s a dead class.

And before anyone gets mad over me saying it’s stupidly easy to play.

Hammer stun → Hundred blades is not a difficult combo, by any stretch of the imagination.
It’s literally 3 keys.
And that is what every warrior combo is like.

It’s also stupidly easy to dodge/deny.
Hammer stun, gunflame, killshot. All of these have long animations that make it easy to blind/dodge.

Obtena.7952:

OW PVE is alot of elements that require optimization, DPS and travel time being two of them. Like I said, post a build, I will let you know how it fairs compared to what I run. I’m always looking to ‘speed run’ OW because I benefit from doing it as fast as I can, just like people doing dungeons, fractals and raids benefit from doing those PVE things as fast as they can too.

I can already tell you a few things that aren’t good with your ’build:

1. Insp will suck because nothing you get from it helps you in OW. You said it wouldn’t matter, it matters quite a bit. Do you throw away a whole traitline when you make a dungeon build?
2. Staff offers little in OW PVE on trash. Don’t need it for the runspeed with Chrono traited. Not sure if the other skills compliments GS too well either.
3. I guess you decided to not bother to provide hotbar skills or the traits. Not much of a considered build there;; dropped out of the challenge before it even got off the ground.

All in all, I think you have some work to do before I take you seriously about how much it doesn’t matter to think about optimizing OW PVE performance. I already know the “don’t care” build isn’t going to do better than the one I’m using.

Again, literally don’t care.

Do you really need me to tell you signet heal, blink, well of calamity, well of recall, and tw.
Is there anything else even worth putting on those slots in the bar? Other than another well?

The answer is no.

Insp gives some revive speed, heal & condi removal in case I get lazy on dodging, and a pointless GM trait.

Chaos would offer some might, but I honestly don’t care.

Also, phase retreat is amazing for moving across maps and tapping as many events as possible.

Which, perhaps you didn’t hear me properly TAP.

Why the kitten would I care about trash mobs, when I can go around, kill a couple things on an event, and move to the next one. Wracking up more rewards and EXP than the people sitting there actually doing the event.

Thus is why the condi clear is useful.
Condis keep you in combat longer. I want to be out of combat so I can get to the next event faster.

Welcome to the extremely selfish kitteny tactic that the game enables.

Obtena.7952:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Dude, I literally run staff/gs in open world.
Staff to get around faster, GS to kill tougher mobs safely.

It seriously doesn’t matter.
I’m not going to be running S/Sh, X/S in open world anytime soon. And that would be about as “optimized” as you could get.

It doesn’t matter to you. It does to me and others. Frankly, if you don’t think optimization matters in OW PVE, then why are you even responding or discussing the topic with me?

I would love to hear why you think S/Sh is as optimal as you can get for OW PVE though. Might shed some light on what you consider as optimal.

1. Because optimization matters in Fractals, Dungeons, Events (Well, only the actually tough ones), and raids.
OW PvE is none of these things, and no one is really looking to “speed run” OW PvE. Nor is OW PvE tough enough to require optimization for damage, but rather for travel time.
Thus the staff that I bring. Since staff is superior mobility. And since in the OW I’m looking to tap as many events as possible, I need mobility.

2. iAvengers provide alacrity, no? If we’re looking to be optimized, then the same build we use in Fractals, Dungeons, etc etc etc. Should suffice. Group support over our own damage.

" In fact, if you post a build, I would love to try it out to see how it compares to what I run and let you know how it works out."

Oh yay, I call it competitive event tapping!

GS/Staff.
Stats don’t matter, just wear zerk or assassin, who cares.
Dom, Insp, Chrono.

Everything else should be fairly obvious.

Feel free to swap Insp for whatever else you want, it actually doesn’t matter at all.

DeceiverX.8361:

“Can potentially bring to a[ny] PvP match” isn’t questioning the utility of the class when examining a particular PvP match. The bit about potential is the critical part. A HB warrior can potentially bring a lot of damage to a fight. But that’s fight-specific and the damage done is dependent on a lot of factors, typically not at the discretion of the warrior but of the foe.

Current mesmer/chrono does better against the thief than it ever has, which overall has pushed the mesmer and thief matchup to be pretty balanced. A lot of people deny this, but on equal footing, the matchup is honestly pretty split these days. It’s only really favoring the thief in duels, but that’s quite the opposite of competitive PvP. You didn’t see Helseth seem to care at all about Daredevil play or Toker going on mesmer-slaying rampages. While the thief does bring the most potential decapping of all of the classes, the top-tier play is a different beast. The pros claim the thief isn’t even a consideration for decapping because combat matters more right now and the revenant, mesmer, and scrapper, all offer similar decapping potential, but much better fight presence. Just because the “potential” is there, just as how portal can being huge “potential” utility, doesn’t mean it’s going to be necessarily worthwhile in the top tiers of play. That is what I said, no? Right.

I’ve got a feeling we’ll see druid use over thief use even in leagues where no duplication is allowed, just because the druid does a better job against a variety of classes, can hold a point, and offers substantial mobility while directly hard-countering any prospective thieves. The primary role of the thief was to decap uncontested points. Even that has been phased out, and the mesmer matchup of the days of olde favoring the thief so heavily have long since passed.

""Can potentially bring to a[ny] PvP match" isn’t questioning the utility of the class when examining a particular PvP match."
Yes, yes it is.
Once one team has found a counter, other teams have no real reason not to mirror that counter should it come up.
And if we’re not talking about the highest level of play when concerned about PvP balance, we’re sort of wasting our time.

A strategy with a hard counter is cheese. It could work, but you’re more likely to be eaten.
Especially in this game. Where you can’t change anything mid game, and you don’t get to dictate anything for your opponent in the pre-game.

I really don’t see how mesmer beats a good thief.
Especially if we’re going to mention Helseth, considering what I’ve said is extremely similar to what Helseth has said on this topic.

I get that I’m not the best player, clearly. I’m garbage.
But thief has no real reason to lose to mesmer. Even if he gets a bad engage, he can just reset. Mesmer can’t chase a thief. Hell, no one can.
Unless he burned all of his initiative in that first attempt to kill you, he should be able to reset and hop right back on your corpse.

I agree though, that druid is more likely to see play than thief. But I still see thief as a counter pick to shut down mesmer plays, if they’re at all a concern.

DeceiverX.8361:

Too early to call anything good or bad. We saw sub-par performance which on that level is massive.

Anyone who questions the utility a mesmer can potentially bring to a PvP match is a fool, though. I diagnosed portal play as being what will be a critical factor in sPvP play quite some time ago with the introduction of chrono and also again with the removal of celestial/defensive amulets. Whether or not that utility gain will matter in the highest echelon of play is the question at hand due to the fight difficulty being so competitive and the tactics employed recognized and countered early such that combat classes may be preferential. Good portal play can and will accelerate a team into the pinnacle of performance where other teams won’t expect it or know how to deal with it, but whether or not it holds true at this level is yet to be determined.

TBH, I’m surprised power shatter wasn’t used over conditions. The strength of the mes right now is portal play pretty much defining a win or lose, and overall, classes are a lot glassier than the previous tournaments such that power’s better off than it was before. I feel conditions is too weak against reaper and boon stripping and bursting a number of the current builds used is a pretty big deal.

No war/thief/guard is unsurprising. These three truthfully are bottom-tier and bring nothing to fights which rev can’t do better while bringing nothing mechanically unique/powerful to the battlefield. No druid is more surprising than anything else.

“Anyone who questions the utility a mesmer can potentially bring to a PvP match is a fool, though.”

“Whether or not that utility gain will matter in the highest echelon of play is the question at hand due to the fight difficulty being so competitive and the tactics employed recognized and countered early such that combat classes may be preferential.”

You’re literally questioning the utility a mesmer can potentially bring to a PvP match.
Which is a completely reasonable thing to do.

Everyone focuses so much on portal, but seems to ignore that mesmer has a hard counter. A hard counter that, admittedly, takes a lot of skill to play.
But when are you going to do anything with a portal, when you have a good thief on top of you?

They’re literally going to force you to burn portal for survival. And while you bring potentially a lot to a team fight, a thief doesn’t.
So a thief doing nothing but shutting you down, and doing a bit of decapping, is effectively doing his whole job.

In order to use portal, you have to play around the fact that you have portal.
But if your portal user gets shut down, then your entire plan goes down the drain.

Azukas.1426:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Azukas.1426:

Levetty.1279:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

Yes, one bad Mesmer build that didn’t achieve much proves that Mesmer is fine in all game modes and isn’t suffering from severe design problems.

This is where I roll my eyes so you can really get the sarcasm.

This is where you realize Guardian, Thief, and Warrior didn’t even get looked at. This is also where you realize the discrepancy in team skill completely nullified any conclusions of that mesmers actual ceiling of contribution to a match.

Thank you for the input though

Guardian, Thief, and Warrior didn’t even get looked at, because why the heck would you take any of them over a second Revenant?
You should add Mesmer to that list.
Because again, why the heck would you take a mesmer over another Revenant?
Portal?
Meh.

It’s hard for me to validate portal and moa over everything else Rev brings.

We got in the finals. Heck I’m sure PZ ran mesmer against that same comp since Abjured ran it too. Pretty sure they had some success against it before.

I love the double think here.
We can’t assume anything off of that mesmer’s performance.

But lets assume something off of that mesmer’s performance.

It’s kittening hilarious bro. You’ve countered your own argument.