Guild Wars 2

kdaddy.5431:

My example was the counter of Mogar and saying a thief blah blah blah is a excuse.

Having seen caed crush every class 1 vs 1 on thief would say ohhh if he went far and won it we should have a 3 cap.

Your point of being a roamer means your asking your team to carry you. Dont tell people how to play when your the one who needs carrying. Your portal can be of great use but if you cant help win EVEN NUMBER FIGHTS you are hurting the team.

Again if you send 1 person far in solo que, i simply type a number of people crossing. If no one is crossing guess what we should potentially get the 3 cap. I know alot of people run meta builds but dont understand what makes them META and i see people running clunky builds who dont do much of anything. yet bark orders.

I have to say i love 1 thing about anet match making. I can not count the times people on my team tell me not to go far when i say im going far at the start of the match. They blame me for any misstep. Then the very next match the guy crying and complaining on my team is now on the enemy team and they know im coming. I run to far win the fight and i simple say " must team the teams fault you lost" because if your not winning the 1 vs 1. 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3 and 4 vs 4 of course its somebodys else fault.

Allow me to insert a League of Legends argument here.

If your team is losing 2 v 2, and you’re the gank.
It’s part of your job to gank and help them win that 2 v 2, by making it a 3 v 2 and laying down your CC on one of the targets, quickly turning it into a 3 v 1.

Now, I agree that simply going far doesn’t mean you’re ruining it for your team.

But over committing to far, and then blaming the team for losing 3 v 3 mid when you could have +1’d, is kind of your fault.

But only kind of.
And I say that because there’s a lot of context that is potentially missing there, that could change my opinion quite easily, depending on how things progressed.

GoldfishOverlord.4963:

As the title hints I am curious if it’s possible to eventually complete the PvP legendary back piece using only a single character? I was just looking at it today and realized that I don’t think you can. Does anybody know otherwise?

Season resets.
You’re not intended to get it in a single season. It’s “time gated”.

So if I’m understanding this right.
Weren’t you the one who made a thread that everyone was just going to stack Rev, Druid, and Tempest?

And now you’re mad that someone stacked reapers and DHs?

At any rate, were the 3 Reapers on a team together? If so, the only thing they can do about that is, well. Nothing in your case. Because pretty much everyone agrees trio-queue should be forced into “Team Queue”.

I still argue that caps should have to be channeled to be flipped. Such that any damage prevents the channel.

That would actually free up some of the riskier classes to do their job better in PvP.

Part of being a roamer is knowing when NOT to fight on point.

Such as: I can force a revenant onto mallyx from a safe spot on some maps, and then kill him once he enters mallyx.

However, the current method of doing things encourages people to mindlessly hop into AOE to be on a point and prevent decap/cap.

Increasing score gain from kills probably wouldn’t accomplish any of the goals that it was changed for.
Where as the channeling of points could possibly accomplish that.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Splits are rock paper scissors. There is no I win split.
This is why solo q fails. It is ingrained that 1-4 split is the best. This is not always the case and depends heavily on the team comp.
But players find it much easier to blame someone than to adjust the rotation.

Going far is not a bad thing. There is a reason there are 3 nodes in the game. Far is not off limits.

Yeah, but part of the problem is that capping far in Solo Q is usually kind of pointless.
For the exact same reason you’re arguing against the 1-4 split being obvious.

You have to have a fairly organized team to actually hold far, considering they can 5 v 3/4 mid/home and potentially gain momentum off of that.

On top of the fact that far is where the enemies respawn.

General tips would lead one to assume that far is a node you get a quick decap on, and then hunt for a fight elsewhere/try to gain momentum elsewhere.

kdaddy.5431:

Mogar.9216:

1 home 4 mid. Don’t go far. Pretty simple but most ppl don’t get it.
After that READ THE MINI MAP.
only go far if you KNOW you can win the 1 v 1 in 40 seconds or less .

Why is not going far a good thing?

Seriously is the dumbest thing that gets repeated over and over again in this game. If a team does a 1-3-1 split and you go 1-4. That means you have a contested home, they capped far and you literally would have to kill somebody in 10 sec at mid in a 4 vs 3 to win that point.

Best yet, the person at home loses to the person running a 1 vs 1 build. The other team sent 2 bunkers to mid who support one another so you didnt get the kill there and now your triple capped.

Just like anything else in this game its about winning even number fights and taking advantage of odd number fights. Simply put if you couldnt win 3 vs 3 at mid its your fault not the person who went far. Home got decapped and person lost the far fight. The question becomes how come no one at mid was counting heads and saw you were fighting 4 vs 3/2/1 if you were getting the kills and capped it?

Im seeing so many people in the ruby/diamond rank who have no clue what they are talking about and that needs to stop.

Going mid as a roamer allows you to go far/home.

Especially as a mesmer roamer, because you have port.

On top of that, your homie on home should be able to hold out decently well, and it isn’t your job as a roamer to ensure mid caps for your team at the beginning.

You are a roamer, you do not fight fair.

So, they did a 1 3 1 split, and you’re mid?

You drop a port mid, rotate home, and destroy the guy attacking your bunker on the home node in a 2 v 1.
that is your job

THEN you drop your port, and rotate someone low from the mid point to the home point, and your homie onto the mid point.

Now you have 2 fresh fighters +1’ing a fight, and home is still being held.

I’ll grant that a lot of games don’t play out this way… Partially just because of lack of player skill.

But a 1 3 1 split isn’t necessarily an advantage.

Nova Stiker.8396:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Nova Stiker.8396:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Nova Stiker.8396:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I don’t play ele, so don’t take this opinion as weighty,

But I think starting off with a complete half effectiveness slash to healing on aura and then the outright removal of regen for torrents is a bit much for the first pass.

Yeah, they’re tanky as hell, but should probably start trimming on the upper end instead of reaching into their entrails and pulling out all the heals.

Don’t think Auramancers will be the only class that needs gutting. People freaking out like it’s the only big problem.

You wanna know what I’d do to Reapers? Increase all the Reaper shroud skills recharges to match Death Shroud, remove the Stability from Infusing Terror skill and replace it with Resistance, changed Deathly Chill trait to only damage nearby chilled foes (although the chill doesn’t have to be yours), the elite shout “Chilled to the bone” would have it’s range decreased by 300.

Worried about Elementalists not being tanky anymore? Boom. Now Reapers also gutted. Dragonhunters, Revenants, power gut. Druids get a nasty CC gutting, chronomancers gets tanking traits gutted and F4 replaced with F5, thieves and warriors might actually see some play.

_

The power creep is everywhere guys. I only talked about 4th of the stuff I’d do on the main post.

Replace F4 with F5?
Now THAT is insane.

In the words of that crazy Ith guy, NO.

At best I’ll hand F2 over to you.

Distortion is something every mesmer build needs. And that’s a good way to change Chrono from a trade off, to worthless.

It’s a learn to play issue. Be better at CC you are given with shield and gravity well.

It isn’t a learn to play issue.
IT IS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN SURVIVE BURST DAMAGE
Literally.
It is our only get out of jail free card. BLINK ISN’T A GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD.
A THIEF CAN FOLLOW THROUGH ON A BLINK
A 3 second block isn’t one either, we’d still have to pop a different stun break.
Dude, that is a nerf into the ground.
And I WILL quit were it to happen.

Then play Mesmer?

There is no reason for ArenaNet to have design Chronomancer to be Mesmer 2.0, I’d personally change all the F1-F3 shatters to do something different. But then it’d no longer be a fix.

Chrono would bring nothing to the table except well of gravity + some alacrity + the superspeed illusions.

Highlighted.

And you’re right. Chronomancer was the first revealed elite spec AND the worst designed.

The biggest problem with chronomancer is its terribly designed mechanics, but that is for a different thread. This is for fixes. You won’t have to worry about losing F4 if all the classes lose their ability to deal tons of damage and still be super tanky.

They don’t even have to be super tanky.
They literally have to be a zerker ranger.
“Oh I knocked you down, immobilized you, and then pressed 2.”

What do I do? Give up blink? Hell no.
Give up portal? Hell no.
Give up decoy for a condi clear? Well I guess I have to.

Or a panic strike thief.
“Oh I halved your health, immobilized you, and now I’m safely stabbing you”

Situations where I could normally survive.

And to fix what?
To remove 1-4 seconds of distortion from chronomancers? Generally just 1 second, as almost nobody does distortion on 3 clones.

Yeah, that was the real problem with the class.
How about just delete WoP and nerf Chaotic Dampening.

Everything else is a trade-off between another pick. With the possible exception of restorative illusions, which is an obvious pick if you’re going into inspiration. Mostly because focus sucks. Not because it’s an amazing trait.

Nova Stiker.8396:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Nova Stiker.8396:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I don’t play ele, so don’t take this opinion as weighty,

But I think starting off with a complete half effectiveness slash to healing on aura and then the outright removal of regen for torrents is a bit much for the first pass.

Yeah, they’re tanky as hell, but should probably start trimming on the upper end instead of reaching into their entrails and pulling out all the heals.

Don’t think Auramancers will be the only class that needs gutting. People freaking out like it’s the only big problem.

You wanna know what I’d do to Reapers? Increase all the Reaper shroud skills recharges to match Death Shroud, remove the Stability from Infusing Terror skill and replace it with Resistance, changed Deathly Chill trait to only damage nearby chilled foes (although the chill doesn’t have to be yours), the elite shout “Chilled to the bone” would have it’s range decreased by 300.

Worried about Elementalists not being tanky anymore? Boom. Now Reapers also gutted. Dragonhunters, Revenants, power gut. Druids get a nasty CC gutting, chronomancers gets tanking traits gutted and F4 replaced with F5, thieves and warriors might actually see some play.

_

The power creep is everywhere guys. I only talked about 4th of the stuff I’d do on the main post.

Replace F4 with F5?
Now THAT is insane.

In the words of that crazy Ith guy, NO.

At best I’ll hand F2 over to you.

Distortion is something every mesmer build needs. And that’s a good way to change Chrono from a trade off, to worthless.

It’s a learn to play issue. Be better at CC you are given with shield and gravity well.

It isn’t a learn to play issue.
IT IS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN SURVIVE BURST DAMAGE
Literally.
It is our only get out of jail free card. BLINK ISN’T A GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD.
A THIEF CAN FOLLOW THROUGH ON A BLINK
A 3 second block isn’t one either, we’d still have to pop a different stun break.
Dude, that is a nerf into the ground.
And I WILL quit were it to happen.

Then play Mesmer?

There is no reason for ArenaNet to have design Chronomancer to be Mesmer 2.0, I’d personally change all the F1-F3 shatters to do something different. But then it’d no longer be a fix.

Chrono already isn’t Mesmer 2.0.
Do you not realize the trait lines I could take instead?

Inspiration? Illusion? Hell, even chaos!
All of them viable options for different reasons.

Chrono would bring nothing to the table except well of gravity + some alacrity + the superspeed illusions. As roamers already take torch over shield anyway.

Well of gravity generally isn’t worth your distortion.

And quickness stomps usually require us to burn a second shatter mid stomp, because if quickness isn’t applied throughout the whole stomp, then it doesn’t actually speed it up.

Nova Stiker.8396:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I don’t play ele, so don’t take this opinion as weighty,

But I think starting off with a complete half effectiveness slash to healing on aura and then the outright removal of regen for torrents is a bit much for the first pass.

Yeah, they’re tanky as hell, but should probably start trimming on the upper end instead of reaching into their entrails and pulling out all the heals.

Don’t think Auramancers will be the only class that needs gutting. People freaking out like it’s the only big problem.

You wanna know what I’d do to Reapers? Increase all the Reaper shroud skills recharges to match Death Shroud, remove the Stability from Infusing Terror skill and replace it with Resistance, changed Deathly Chill trait to only damage nearby chilled foes (although the chill doesn’t have to be yours), the elite shout “Chilled to the bone” would have it’s range decreased by 300.

Worried about Elementalists not being tanky anymore? Boom. Now Reapers also gutted. Dragonhunters, Revenants, power gut. Druids get a nasty CC gutting, chronomancers gets tanking traits gutted and F4 replaced with F5, thieves and warriors might actually see some play.

_

The power creep is everywhere guys. I only talked about 4th of the stuff I’d do on the main post.

Replace F4 with F5?
Now THAT is insane.

In the words of that crazy Ith guy, NO.

At best I’ll hand F2 over to you.

Distortion is something every mesmer build needs. And that’s a good way to change Chrono from a trade off, to worthless.

It’s a learn to play issue. Be better at CC you are given with shield and gravity well.

It isn’t a learn to play issue.
IT IS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN SURVIVE BURST DAMAGE

Literally.

It is our only get out of jail free card. BLINK ISN’T A GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD.
A THIEF CAN FOLLOW THROUGH ON A BLINK

A 3 second block isn’t one either, we’d still have to pop a different stun break.

Dude, that is a nerf into the ground.
And I WILL quit were it to happen.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

I don’t play ele, so don’t take this opinion as weighty,

But I think starting off with a complete half effectiveness slash to healing on aura and then the outright removal of regen for torrents is a bit much for the first pass.

Yeah, they’re tanky as hell, but should probably start trimming on the upper end instead of reaching into their entrails and pulling out all the heals.

Don’t think Auramancers will be the only class that needs gutting. People freaking out like it’s the only big problem.

You wanna know what I’d do to Reapers? Increase all the Reaper shroud skills recharges to match Death Shroud, remove the Stability from Infusing Terror skill and replace it with Resistance, changed Deathly Chill trait to only damage nearby chilled foes (although the chill doesn’t have to be yours), the elite shout “Chilled to the bone” would have it’s range decreased by 300.

Worried about Elementalists not being tanky anymore? Boom. Now Reapers also gutted. Dragonhunters, Revenants, power gut. Druids get a nasty CC gutting, chronomancers gets tanking traits gutted and F4 replaced with F5, thieves and warriors might actually see some play.

_

The power creep is everywhere guys. I only talked about 4th of the stuff I’d do on the main post.

Replace F4 with F5?
Now THAT is insane.

In the words of that crazy Ith guy, NO.

At best I’ll hand F2 over to you.

Distortion is something every mesmer build needs. And that’s a good way to change Chrono from a trade off, to worthless.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Frenk.5917:

“How to butcher other builds in other gamemodes because I don’t like something in SPVP” – volume II, by Nova Striker.

You are totally not aware that there are builds in other parts of the game which use the same traits setup of builds used in SPVP, are you? Well, congratulation on killing WvW tempest, PvE tempest and WvW Scrapper all at once.

How the heck does it kill PvE and WvW Tempest? If anything it makes it more powerful with increased boon duration you and your party can have a very strong upkeep of quickness. Regeneration really isn’t that super important in PvE or WvW zerging after all.

OH! You talking about being a glass cannon while still being a strong healer with Elemental Bastion! Um, no. Elemental Bastion is stupidly overpowered on how much it heals with so little investment into healing power. You can still be a super strong healer, but you now have to give up damage to achieve it.

Jesus, I butchered the Scrapper MUCH more than Tempest and yet people still defending the Tempest? Makes me wonder what people would say if I butchered the Reaper…

Not sure about PvE tempest, but WvW tempest seems like it is already in a spot that begs the question “Why not just run staff ele”.
The usual water blasting and what not.

Since staff ele generally is a better group support & has better group damage.

But, I’m not an ele main.

Edit:
And this is the part of the conversation where we say “ANet should separate PvE and PvP skills”.

I’d add “and WvW” to that as well.
Because balancing all 3 together seems about as safe as juggling mini nukes.

Condi Rev seems to still be viable post nerf.
But I think a lot of people are figuring out that burst classes can kill you once you’re on Mallyx. So it’s just about forcing you onto Mallyx.

If anything, there’s just some classes that you can’t 1v1, and that you have to be careful around.

So, welcome to what every other class in the game is like?

You could always run hammer, and watch the bodies hit the floor.

eldenbri.1059:

Thx – I made my reply before the second answer. Indeed, two different answers.

Thx much for the input. I have some things to try for sure.

I think when I +1 a fight, I can make a decent difference if I go through my lockdown sequence (continuum shift, gravity well x2, tides of time x2). That can tip the scales.

To be fair.
The +1’ing and roaming suggestion should’ve came with a disclaimer:
“You’ll have to shift your build around this”.

The job of a roamer isn’t to cap points, win 1v1s, or to fight fairly in general.
You go in, you do all of your damage and try to get a kill, and then you rotate out.
(generally)

So a lot of defensive things aren’t necessary.
Like shield, for instance.

Although shield isn’t a bad pick either. I still sometimes like using shield when roaming on chrono shatter.

I would be careful about going mid, rather than sitting on home as a condi “bunker”.

With that small health pool, and no portal, it could be pretty easy for someone to decap home, as you don’t have a whole lot of healing. So rotating out of a fight to protect home is likely to leave you with hefty cooldowns, and little health.

Also, you might consider running sigils of generocity rather than leeching.

You have 40% crit, so it could come in handy on transferring a few conditions.

Honestly though, my biggest suggestion is to learn how to portal, and be more of a condi roamer. Which seems to be what you’re kind of playing at already.

Being a roamer, you generally start off going mid, drop a port. And then rotate to a fight you can +1, probably on home, but you might stay mid if home is a 1v2, or go far for the quick decap.

Ithilwen.1529:

I know my class mechanics. I didn’t happen to know your little twist. You talked about shattering (mind wrack ) followed by Continuum Shift and f4 to cover the casting of WoP.

I said that Continuum Shift doesn’t recharge shatters, which is correct. I misunderstood that you were casting f4 during CS.

Still, that’s hardly a “free” distortion since it involves the use of a 90 second CD.

You claimed that the 90 second cd was a weak argument based on fictional numbers that might happen with 100% alacrity uptime and skills used whenever they came off CD. I pointed out that such a scenario is patently ridiculous in a real match.

Beside which, 100% alacrity uptime isn’t attainable.

As to straw man arguments; A straw man argument involves creating a fictional argument that can easily be defeated with the intention of using that to bolster an argument. by defeating the false premise.

I have not done that. I defy you to show me where I have. Please don’t use terminology you don’t understand.

“You claimed that the 90 second cd was a weak argument based on fictional numbers that might happen with 100% alacrity uptime and skills used whenever they came off CD.”

“I defy you to show me where I have.”

Yeah. Are we forgetting the next, oh. Idk.
2 or 3 paragraphs I wrote?

Where I said, Realistically.

I can’t imagine why I’d say that. Can you?

And are we seriously forgetting what the entire argument was about?
You are going to use continuum shift anyway, because you want a second well of precog. Doing distortion here for the safe well cast IS OBVIOUS.

It took me 3 posts, before you finally recognized that shatters recharge when used in CS.
Where you blatantly stated:
“No distortion does not “come back” after continuum shift. CS doesn’t recharge shatters. That’s simply untrue. You are either being deliberately deceptive or don’t understand the skill”

So instead of thinking “Man, I’m misunderstanding his argument”.
You went “YOU’RE A LIAR! AND A SCRUB!”

sigh

And now, we’re going through the same thing.

Instead of slowing down and understanding my statements.
You want to attack something that I’m not even arguing.

This is a forum.
Please post responsibly.
If you’re having problems understanding what I’ve said, or you feel I’m not clear enough.
ASK FOR CLARIFICATION

Don’t just go off on a tangent because I gave theoretical maximums, and stated that I can see why the OP would be annoyed by it. And that if for some reason your team comp couldn’t do anything to it cough cough running all bunkers cough cough, then I can see how it could cause problems.

I didn’t state THIS IS TOTALLY WHAT HAPPENS IN GAMES!

But 4-5 CS in an average game on a mesmer, isn’t some unobtainable number. Nor is it a mark of a noob to use it that much.

When you’re +1’ing constantly, you have to burn cooldowns to get kills. It’s the name of the game.
And considering how quickly mesmer can get around on the map? Using a skill on cooldown isn’t that unusual either.

At the same time, this post is about 2 bunker mesmers, running a build that is built for stacking alacrity.

My 25-50% uptime estimate is probably lower than what they would actually be able to keep up.
Considering CS doesn’t reset alacrity, and shatters + wells give alacrity.

But you’ll also notice that my first post on this thread, was a list of suggestions on how to deal when faced with this.

Why? Why do you feel the need to drag things on unnecessarily, rather than admit that the class isn’t trash tier?

Ithilwen.1529:

100% Alacrity uptime? You’re dreaming. Nobody runs a maxed alacrity build. You are also assuming that WoP and other skills are cast each time they come off CD. That’s simply not going to happen in a real match.

Your numbers are based on the fiction of a Mesmer standing on a point, continually engaged and with nothing else to do using WoP every time it comes off of CD.

Be real please. The OP found it annoying because they lost. They got outplayed and they lost. Nerf the tears please.

Jeez.
You love strawman arguments, don’t you?

Sure, you aren’t going to see all of those wells in a game.
Didn’t say you were.

However, I stated the maximum possible.

sigh

Why am I even explaining this to the guy that didn’t know one of his class mechanics five minutes ago?

I’m a scrub mesmer main, and even I knew that.

You know what? Never mind.

Do your little dance, I need to sleep.

Ithilwen.1529:

I just took my Chronomancer into game and tried it. I formally admit that in one aspect I was wrong;

If I cast Continuum split and then f4 distortion, f4 is is in fact restored at the end of the continuum shift.

So yes, I could use up Continuum Split, followed by distortion and this would cover my cast of well of precognition and leave me with f4 intact.

HOWEVER: WoP itself has a 3/4 second cast time. So unless I timed it perfectly CS would end before I could get WoP off. So, I’d lose the reuse of WoP if my button presses weren’t perfect.

I’d also point out that Continuum Split is on a 90 Second CD. In all probability you’re going to to use this skill 1-2 times in a match.

The OP’s team still got outplayed. A specialized series of moves like that , that is hard to pull off and requires major resources isn’t OP and is comparable to many other attack rotations used by other classes. Reaper for example can down me very quickly if I’m not cautious. Scrapper, thief….

90 seconds is nothing when alacrity shaves off 1.66 seconds for every second.

With 100% alacrity up time, that makes it a 54 second cooldown.

Realistically, you’d see alacrity shave off anywhere between 10-20 seconds off the cooldown.

A match generally lasts between 4-8 minutes (This is based off of personal anecdote, YMMV). So you’d get anywhere between 3-7~ CS in a match, per mesmer.

They have 2.

While we’re at it, well of precog has a 45 second cooldown, or roughly 27 with full alacrity uptime.

Lets be reasonable an say alacrity shaves off 5-10 seconds. Which is half of what I predicted for CS. Since it is half the cooldown already.
Basic math, you’d have anywhere from 6-14 WoP without CS, per mesmer.

On top of the heal bombing of tempest.

Not to mention your own distortion spreads thanks to minor traits. So that will add a couple of seconds of distortion here and there.

All in all, I can see how it would be annoying for the OP.

And I can see how, with the wrong team comp facing it, it could cause problems.

Ithilwen.1529:

No, I don’t get get clones back after continuum shift. nor does it recharge my shatters. That’s pure fantasy on your part.

If I have my f4 distortion shatter before continuum split I’ll still have it after. If I’ve used it, it will still be on CD. You’re dead wrong on that and it makes some of the rest of what you said pure fantasy.

Yes, I count as a clone. Using a shatter with only myself is minimally effective and a pure desperation move. I’d also point out that Mesmers have done that for years, it’s old news.

No distortion does not “come back” after continuum shift. CS doesn’t recharge shatters. That’s simply untrue. You are either being deliberately deceptive or don’t understand the skill

As to hitting continuum shift mid cast… well I haven’t tried it. I’d be using up two major CDs just to use a slot skill twice. Dumb move really.

At this point I think you’re arguing for the sake of arguing. Can I use WoP twice in a row using Continuum Shift? Yes. Is it a sound strategy to use up a slot skill and two major cd’s to pull a trick like that? No, not 95% of the time. It’s a noob move.

Wow.
^ That’s all I have left.

Just wow.

“No distortion does not “come back” after continuum shift. CS doesn’t recharge shatters."

Literally just tried it in game to make sure I wasn’t lying.

Worked just fine.

Edit:

I’m not sure if this is breaking community standards or not.

But I have to point it out.

The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one

Edit2:
The sad thing is, that I don’t even necessarily disagree with you entirely.
I was just pointing out a mechanic in the game, that makes the cast time for well of precog to be an insignificant problem in the majority of situations.

However, I don’t know how effective well of precog actually is in strong hold.
And I think if people would shift more towards damage, bunker mesmer would likely be knocked out of the meta entirely.

But then again, it’s only been a few days…
So such speculation is obviously error prone.

Ithilwen.1529:

No I can’t “just pop distortion” or rather I’d be stupid to do so. Continuum Shift uses all my extant clones.

So no, I can’t “pop stab” and then WoP or continuum shift because doing so would expend my clones making the continuum shift ridiculously short.

You’re making up a fantasy here. Each of thos moves you allege I can do in sequence would use up all fo my extant clones or be of ridiculously short duration.

Yes I get some back for shattering if I am so traited. So, assuming I’m traited that way, I can use two skills in succession… that still doesn’t cover your fantasy.

Sorry, learn to play.

“Continuum Shift uses all my extant clones”
Uhmm, you still get 1 second of distortion from it, FOR FREE BECAUSE IT COMES BACK AFTER CONTINUUM SHIFT IS DONE.

Hello. YOUR CHARACTER COUNTS AS A CLONE. You know, illusionary persona? That thing we have by default now.

Dude, LEARN TO PLAY

Edit:
Also, if your only goal is to drop down precog for free, you can do that with 0 clones, by using continuum shift in the middle of the cast.
I know, because I do it with gravity well all the time when I’m +1’ing.

Ithilwen.1529:

The skill is comparable in power to other skills. It also has a long cast and prevents taking points. The fact that the OP’s team failed to pressure the chrono was there fault. ANET has a hair trigger and a heavy hand nerfing Mesmer. Not unlike the way thieves have suffered because of the crying over stealth.

Understand the skill, realize the cast can be interrupted easily and the invulnerability lasts a short time. In short, learn to play.

The cast can be interrupted?
Doesn’t bunker mes generally carry the trait that gives them stability for shattering?

With the low cooldown of mindwrack, they have no excuse for not popping stab to do their well.

On top of that, they’ll likely cast continuum shift in mid cast on the first well.

So that’s 2 stacks of stab that they should have, if they aren’t nubs.

Meaning you actually need a bit of organized CC on that, which is harder to pull off in SoloQ.

Not to mention they can just pop distortion right after continuum shift… Cause again, it’s free….

Alekt.5803:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Ithilwen.1529:

It’s the same in either scenario. That’s pure sophistry. Either way, the chrono was obviously not under much pressure. The OP’s team got outplayed and that’s not a reason to cry for a nerf. Particularly right after a heavy nerf to the same skill.

Well to be fair, precog was nerfed in the conquest format. It was buffed everywhere else.

It was pretty obvious Anet didnt go through the mental motions to forsee the various consequences of their balancing. There were various ways to handle precog and while they took the most obvious, it was hardly the most sensible.

Oh yeah, ok, they did alter the pre/after cast, but w/e.

I must be lost. How was it buffed on other modes?

Distortion is stronger than blur.

In distortion, you have invulnerability:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability

Immune to damage, conditions being applied, and immune to CC.

However… Blur is an evade:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade

So… Some skills and effects cannot be evaded, they include:
- Skills with area denial purposes: Line of Warding, Ring of Warding, Unsteady Ground, Static Field, Temporal Curtain’s cripple, and many others. The guardian’s pull skill also cannot be evaded.
- Passive effects that trigger when the enemies are attacked: Retaliation, Auras
- Certain environmental traps/events/objects.

WuGzaGenius.5684:

ur all dumb, they just did a hotfix that literally hotfixed everything.

You can’t patch player IQ

If the enemy has 2 chrono’s and a tempest. Couldn’t you focus the players that aren’t either of those?

Or hell, focus the chrono’s and force them to pop their distortions for themselves?

Or, even better. Run a large amount of archers, and a couple of heros into their base.
If they’re dedicating 3 of their bunkers to the boss, surely you could win the war of attrition based solely on points from channeling heros, and getting player kills.

Lack of play testing.
General difficulties of balance (Nerf Y, and X that was countered by it is now dominant)

And HoT being rushed out the door to hit holiday deadlines, and to keep development costs down.

Development costs likely contributing a large amount to business decisions.
Especially with them wanting to put balance patches on a schedule.

The devs changed stability from what it was, because CC wasn’t as prevalent then.
So blowing through enough CC to actually get a stun was actually a costly endeavor.

However, there’s a few classes that can apply a lot of burst CC for cheap now. So the stacks don’t make as much sense.

On the flip side… You pretty much need that CC to even have a chance at killing some of these classes with ridiculous amounts of sustain, on top of stun breaks.

On top of all that, you have burst condi, which is pretty much your direct counter to any class with a significant amount of damage.
You can’t clear condi that basically kills you in .5 of a femto second. So carrying condi clears is a moot point.

shrug

Hopefully they’ll open a CDI for the January patch, and we can have a real conversation with the devs on how to fix things.

I’m having fun playing Chronoshatter and Chrono Condi (Now known as, Chrondi!).

I also had some guilty pleasures playing Scraprauder.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Israel.7056:

Or perhaps there’s some legitimacy to some of the complaints.

Perhaps some people stuck in “elo hell” don’t individually deserve it.

If you’re stuck in Elo hell you deserve it.

90% of escaping Elo Hell is being good enough to work with a team. Once you can do that you are out.

If you cannot find a team and are pugging, it’s because you don’t know how to be a team player.

And as you go, you may even have to refine your team comp and get people that can do their job without being toxic.

The flaw here, is you’re not considering that they’ve combined 2 different match making rating systems!

Meaning, someone with 2200 MMR could have significant issues in Division 2, while someone with 1400 MMR could have an easier time climbing all the way to Division 5.

What everyone is complaining about, is that legitimately good, long time PvPers appear to be getting stuck in the same division for a long time.
Due to their pre-existing MMR.

Which actually makes some sense.

Them having pre-existing MMR, means the system has had a lot of time to figure out where they stand.
The system is less likely to match them up with a team significantly worse than them, because their potential deviation is lower.

Where as someone who’s fresher, has a much higher deviation.

Although, this also means it’s more likely that the fresher person will be pitted against someone who’s of significantly higher MMR (and therefore skill) than them.
As a way to “test” them, and try to figure out where they actually stand.

So, it should all balance out.

Whether it does or not, who knows.

Nemaides.6873:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

This happens to me a lot.

I think it’s relevant to the animation bug. As stomps animation never actually plays right for me.

The thing i learned, is to stand there and not move for an extra second longer.

sometimes that’s enough to get the stomp.

Other times I throw my mouse against a wall, because now I’m being 2 v 1’d by the scrapper I downed and the rev that came to try and save him.

Exactly this,
Now every time I try to stomp, I hold still for few seconds after the animation finished, thinking maybe I had quickness, or slow, and didn’t see it …

But, often the stomp don’t land afterall.

I wonder if it might be connected to FPS at all.

I know generally “fixing your timestep” is the first thing a game developer should fix.
But it does leave me curious.

I usually have 144 fps in PvP. Perhaps if I cap it at 60 I might end up with different results.

Idk, I’ll try it after work and see what happens.

kdaddy.5431:

A reason i disagree is because LOL and dota have hundreds on champions to choose from but to play at a elite level its the same 4-5.

I agree there needs to be more counters and more builds to play since there are not hundreds of champions to goof off on. Though this MMO has the best paced and visually stunning graphics and with that they can easily become esports.

The biggest problem to me is getting the average player to jump on and watch. The skill level is this game is very high and because of that you will get average players who will leave for something simpler in a moba. The question becomes how to get those people into the game.

More game modes, that focus less on rotations.

And changing the current point holding mechanic into a point capturing mechanic.
I.E. To capture a point, you have to channel it.
If someone interrupts the channel, you don’t cap it.

That would allow someone to hold a point without being directly on top of it. Lowering the power of AoE in 5v5s.

With that out of the way, separate PvE and PvP skills, and rebalance the PvP game around group support, and crowd control that can reasonably force the enemies together.
And single target damage.

This happens to me a lot.

I think it’s relevant to the animation bug. As stomps animation never actually plays right for me.

The thing i learned, is to stand there and not move for an extra second longer.

sometimes that’s enough to get the stomp.

Other times I throw my mouse against a wall, because now I’m being 2 v 1’d by the scrapper I downed and the rev that came to try and save him.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Oooops almost forgot!!
8. Download additional software to make your mouse coursor actually visible when in bigger fights!

Please elaborate on this. I would be interested in something that shows my cursor location while I am holding down the right click button.

I use YoloMouse.

Yeah…
Gotta say, I like how there’s been an entire unique dynamic to this game, that has been dead since launch due to them never balancing it properly and just giving up.

Ithilwen.1529:

I’m complaining about 2 things;

First that ANET reduced the shield block time inappropriately. Second that ANET broke it’s own rules and did an emergency fix to single out Mesmer for a heavy nerf.

This is a historical pattern with ANET. Hambow rolled on for weeks. ANET had no problem with that. Yet, they have even done hotfixes within minutes of releasing a new patch to make absolutely sure that Mesmer didn’t get a potentially strong skill.

ANET has a long history of carefully keeping Mesmer to minimum viability while letting things like Hambow and turret engi roll on for weeks.

I believe that one or more devs dislike mesmer and want it to do badly.

Dude, put that salt in a vial and wear it.

Neither Hambow nor Turret Engi were as strong as Mesmer was.
The block nerf wasn’t necessary, but it also didn’t effect much. Shield is still a really strong pick.

Also Rev got nerfed.

Also, seriously.
Play thief for 2 seconds. It’ll probably cause you to quit the game.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Interesting theory indeed!
In PvE blueish ress icon may be consistent because in PvE we’re all on the same team – the Pact.

But in PvP we’re not all on the same team and each needs it’s own color scheme followed or it leads to mistakes. For example i’m red and i see blue icon near point held by our defender.

Normally i think – enemy down, he’ll stomp it, nothing to see move along.
Unless i remember that map’s doing this weird kitten it does and then realize “Oh crap that’s our man that’s down!!” Gotta save his kitten or we’ll lose the point!

Also the color theory is another reason this should be aborted. One color for your team, always the same one, and another for enemy, also always the same. Like green/red or white/black…whatever. As long as each team is under the same conditions and non subject to misleading information or emotional influence from the UI itself.

I actually very much agree with the “1 color for your team always” approach.
Like “I’m always red, the enemy is always blue. Regardless of map spawn side.”

Perhaps not by default, I don’t really care about defaults.

But setting it optionally would be pretty cool.

That’s one of a long list of what I’d classify as UI tweaks that the game needs.
I wish they’d just give us an API to modify the UI.

I’d really like to make condition & buff icons larger, with their actual timers shown. And on a different part of the screen.

Stack the utility skills on top of the weapon skills. Scrap the fancy frame around it for a minimalist approach. Give it a .8 opacity because I can.

Make the mini-map larger than the maximum it can go to now.

And add curse voice, or just any VOIP software to speak of.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

I’m saying there is an inconsistency in mini map color sheme. Blue team has their members marked with blue color always, be they alive, downed or dead.

Red team has their living members marked with red icons, but downed and defeated with blue!

It’s misleading when you’re in middle of a fight! It’s a flaw. Small? Maybe. But in mode that wants to be competitive, let alone an e-sport even the tiniest advantage given to one team that is outside their influence and skill is FLAWED DESIGN.

If we’re touching on this topic, the colors themselves, red & blue, have been shown to have effects on players.

Red =‘s more aggressive. Blue =’s more calm and tactical.

There’s a great Game Theory video on this topic

Perhaps the color difference there, is to make up for the effect the color has on the team already?

I’m joking of course.

Anytime you ever see any ally in the game downed. It’s always been that more of a whitish blue color res icon.

That’s in any part of the game.

They probably stuck with that, because it was consistent with the game’s color choices, and not the “teams” color.

dank.3680:

Dale Rojo.7485:

Aggrostemma.1703:

OK, this was unsportmanship… What now?

Buff mesmers?

Do you want them to kneel down and beg for your pardon? Do you watch F1 or football?

They knew they have no chance to win! And unlike some other sports they do not have a manager, they do not have a boss to slap them on the face afterwards… They play because the are players. They were acting like a man who is fed up with all this unbalanced crap while the rules written by others failed and are unplayable….

It’s like playing as a midfielder in FIFA or the EC while every scorer is able to bring a 9mm pistol to the match…

Because people want to be arm chair coaches and tell others what is unsportsmanlike and what is not. They have no clue what it is like to be at that level and hit a brick wall that is a waste of time. To me quitting isn’t unsportsmanlike, what he did was fair. Only the ESL and ArenaNet are the ones who should have their panties in a bunch. Their product is taking a huge hit and this battered it more, and they deserved it. Everyone else who is claiming “rage quit” and “unsportsmanlike” are just blindly agreeing with how leagues view unsportsmanlike conduct and being crybabies about it.

He got mad and quit, as explained himself. M0obs(stupid forum filter) ragequit, get over it. Is it a big deal that he ragequit? NOPE

It’s potentially a big deal for him and his team.
Not following etiquette at a “sporting event” is a good way to get yourself banned from future ones.
Other than that. Nah.

Ithilwen.1529:

I’m disgusted. ANET broke it’s own rule to single out Mesmer for a nerf. Not only well of precog but also block duration.

I think anet has an ongoing issue with Mesmers and wants to return them to the two years of trash tier we had before.

Shh.
Sit down, and have a mug of cocoa.

The mesmer change was needed. Distortion is actually a buff in some ways.
The block change appears mostly insignificant in PvP. I’ll still take shield over torch any day of the week. (Don’t even get me started about off-hand sword and focus >.>.)

And over all, I’m just glad I get to screw around with a condi build again.

Also, the meta doesn’t matter unless you’re a top 1% player.
A.K.A. I’ve been enjoying mesmer during those “trash tier” years.

Ross Biddle.2367:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

I really don’t believe 2 mesmer has 100% distortion time.

If they did, they could run a shatter build and burst you from safety?
If they did, it would be abused in PvE constantly.

How does a lord take 0 damage for 3 minutes?

So lets see, well provides distortion for 3s, which grants the mesmer an additional 1s distortion if traiting blurred inscription which also passes to allies. If the Mesmer also takes signets he can get additional 1s distortion for every signit traiting blurred inscriptions. Potentially he can run 4 signits + well of precog. Using Time Split he can double this up on a 3 clone shatter. Precog is on a kitten cd minus alacrity reduction which could be a lot if not 100% between two mesmers. If both mesmers ran this sort of setup and rotated their elites, they could generate some high distortion uptime, for sure.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distortion_%28effect%29

So, with precog + CS, that’s 16 seconds of distortion uptime.
Precog’s cooldown, with 100% alacrity uptime, is roughly 27 seconds.

Inspiring Distortion trait has a cooldown of 5 seconds. 3 seconds if alacrity effects it and you have 100% alacrity uptime (Gonna be hard to do that with only signets).

So 2 seconds between each of those where you can do damage to the boss.

Burning a signet in CS would conflict with Inspiring Distortion, because of its cooldown. So I don’t feel like that would result in a net gain in distortion.

I’ll admit, 16 seconds by itself + a couple of shorter ones in-between, is pretty ridiculous. Balance that out right, and that 27 second cooldown is wayyy too low.

I can see how that (being used well) + a tempest (per the ops latest post), could hold a boss for a very long time.

Fair enough guys. Thanks for taking your time to explain that. It makes a lot more sense now.

I really don’t believe 2 mesmer has 100% distortion time.

If they did, they could run a shatter build and burst you from safety?
If they did, it would be abused in PvE constantly.

How does a lord take 0 damage for 3 minutes?

Well of precog isn’t that strong bro. Neither is gravity well.

Just played a couple of matches as the mesmer in my sig. Ran into a bunker mesmer or 2. Got called a hacker, that was fun. Made sure to link that guy a stack of salt and block + report him.
Didn’t have much trouble winning the matches though.

Idk.
I kinda like beating the premades :P

Mitch.4781:

Well, at least you are honest with your racism. Hey print it on shirt, walk down any street and let’s see who else finds it “hilarious” shall we?

It’s funny how all these things are considered “hilarious” behind the safety of a computer screen. People are often hesitant to be so hilarious in real life. Can’t think why……..

So we’re assuming I’m not black now?

Thank you for being offended on my behalf I guess?

Edit:
Also, I’m very sorry.
I forgot that everything that happens on the internet has real life consequences, and has to be compared to it every freaking day.

I also like how you only address 1 thing.
1.

That 1 thing that is a racist joke, made not necessarily because the maker is racist, but because they get a laugh at offending other people.
People with delicate sensibilities, that let the internet consume their lives.

Mitch.4781:

Schurge.5194:

Trash talk is a big part of PvP and while I am sure there are some dedicated PvPers who hate it I feel most competitive players like it. Some people take trash talk to far and get personal but I’d rather play a game where I’m occasionally told to go kill myself then a game where people are too afraid to even boast-troll.

That said the OP should probably play a different game mode. His examples were extremely tame and impersonal in nature. They hardly count as abuse. Put a helmet on.

So because I am unwilling to take direct personal abuse with good humour, I should stop playing a mode I otherwise enjoy? So being told to " Get kittened" is tame and impersonal is it? Wow, you sound nice. One can only imagine the type of stuff you would like to say if let off the leesh. I know this sounds like a brand new idea to you and probably out of your intellect bandwidth, but why not punish those violating the rules they signed up to when installing and playing the game?? How about not acting like an kitten? Yeah, original thinking I know.

You are probably the type of person that finds the “Nigr” guild acronym hilarious.

1. That guild acronym is hilarious. Especially the trolling way it was put together.
2. Yes, being told to “Get kittened” on the internet is tame and impersonal. No ones posting pics of you, or doxxing you. And unless the harassment continues beyond the match, and the guy hops on 20 different alts to spam you with it, it’s really not a big deal. I mean, really. First world problems much?
3. Just report & block the people if they really get to you. That’s all.
There’s no point bringing it up on the forums. There is little ANet can do about it.
“Just ban them”, over half of the playerbase would be perma-banned if we let people’s emotional excursions be ban worthy.
4. Or you can be like me. Don’t report them. Link a stack of salt to them. And then block them. Now, and I need you to really actually do this. Forget about them completely, they have no effect on your actual life.

Ithilwen.1529:

I feel anet has an issue with Mesmers and will make targetted attacks until we’re trash tier again. I’m pretty upset about this patch.

Literally no one agrees with you.

The nerfs they did were fair and reasonable in PvP.

PvE is another beast entirely. I won’t speak for them.

But as far as PvP is concerned, this was necessary for the health of the game.

WoP was a 5 man invuln that still contributed to cap.
That’s simply ridiculous.

morrolan.9608:

So this makes me not want to play until I see a response from Evan.

I wouldn’t play ranked for now.

If there’s a bug that’s hindering climbing, then they need to solve it before people bother playing.

MadVisions.4529:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

They literally just did a fix.
Chill.

corrected your quote.

this was everything but ‘HOT’…

They can’t just suddenly shift the meta while a tournament is actively being held.
And it wasn’t blatantly obvious how broken some of the things they nerfed were, until early December.

They’re taking advantage of the break they’ll have.

It’s a HOT fix.
Now, move along.

As a mesmer main.
Bunker mesmer was OP, and unfun to play.

They literally just did a hotfix.
Chill.

HOT FIX HYPE!!!

morrolan.9608:

They’ve added another change, well of precog to now apply distortion and thus prevent point capture:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Upcoming-Balance-Changes-Week-of-December-14-2015/page/5#post5857066

Thank kitten.